The DAVID Dilema

While OFF TOPIC i am happy to discuss some of the Mysteries of the Franchise and a lot of the Problems are it appears THEY had NO set A-Z Rules/Background they stuck to and so they constantly change things, as they go along without much thought to the ORIGINAL concepts which has created a few problems.

"So, the mutagen that the seeding engineer drinks must be somewhat different to the one that David and prometheus team found in the chamber with the head"

This is a Prime Example.... and its given some NEW explanation in the ADVENT that is a bit contradicting and has made what was a SIMPLE Creation Tool into something of a Mcguffin.  This MAY no longer apply any more but my Interpretation was the Sacrificial Goo was a Creation Tool, it infected the Engineer and Broke down his DNA that then reformed into a Mutagen that carried the Engineers DNA and would Pass/Infect this DNA to any Organism it came into contact with, and so what we saw was the Engineers DNA in this Mutagen either became the Building Blocks of Life, or it was the Catalyst of Evolving Basic Life into Complex (i believe the latter) and so the Engineers DNA infected basic Life and started Complex Life, but the Engineers would return over and over to further Evolve Life with Engineer DNA.

When looking at the Black Goo, and Mural (Altar Originally had the Sacrificial Cup) i got the impression the Sacrificial Goo had been used on the Creature in the Mural or Fresco and its DNA Collected into the resulting Mutagen and then Stored and Experimented with.  If you took the Sacrificial Engineer and Sacrificed him in a Shower and collected his Broken Down Material/Resulting Mutagen and collected it into Ampules/Bottles and Poured the contents into a Water Fall would the Result not be the Same?

A few months after this THEORY we saw Jon Spaights Alien Engineers Draft get leaked and If you read it, then how his Nano-Scarabs work is exactly how i interpreted the Black Goo.  So in context of the Genetic Space Gardeners that the Engineers were, it appears the ideas was the Sacrificial Goo was a Creation Tool, it was a Tool that can be used to Obtain and Spread the DNA of any Organism to Create Hybrid DNA.  Looking at it like this and IF David could revert it back to its BASE form like the Sacrificial Goo, then this would be a Perfect Tool to allow for his many experiments he had done.

Sacrificial Goo + Wolf = Wolf DNA Mutagen + Human = Werewolf.

Sacrificial Goo + Cat = Cat DNA Mutagen + Human = Thundercat

Wolf Mutagen + Thundercat Hybrid = 50% Wolf, 25% Human 25% Cat Hybrid  call it Wolf-Man-Cat.

Sacrificial Goo on Wolf-Man-Cat to make Mutagen with its DNA and then this is used on a Human would create a 62.5% Human 25% Wolf and 12.5% Cat HYBRID if the Spaints Nano Scarabs and my conclusion was correct....  Which if we look at it this way i explained we can see how something like this by Tinkering with different forms of Hybrids and DNA would indeed be likely or logically the way to Explain Davids Experiments... The GOO used as above would allow you to obtain and experiment with a all manner of Organisms DNA/Traits selecting the best ones to create the Perfect Hybrid.

BUT ALAS... The Prometheus Weyland File made different and contradicting and Alien Covenant the Advent had given us the Explanation there is ONE Substance which reacts differently to each Genome but can maybe also be Programed.  But leads to many Questions which dont add up as you clearly put in your post.  For Example WHY did Sacrificial Engineer, have a different effect to the Planet 4 Engineers and Fifield.

"It is unlikely these engineers have abilities to create planets from nothing"

This is a Good Question.... one that a Source i had from Feb 2015 based on the Prometheus 2 Draft of October 2014 claimed there is a way these Engineers Create/Manipulate Worlds to be Habitable.   And year or so after, we had Ridley Scott during the time he announced a Official Sequel Alien: Paradise Lost (changed to Covenant a month or so latter) he had mentioned that IF the Engineers are the Forerunners of Mankind, then What/Who made it so Worlds could be Seeded by them in the First Place.... where was the BIG GUY.  He went on to further say was the BIG BANG a accident? or a Planned Event and that Steven Hawkings even Questions if the Big Bang was a Accident.  So MAYBE at some point they had ideas that there is something related to the Engineers Hierarchy/Creators that could Create/Manipulate Worlds.  But its a Question of does this still apply now or not?

"having watched P and AC. I can't quite work out why the engineers are so hostile towards humans"

This is a Big Question and ONE that i am sure Dr Shaw wanted to find out, this really is a Ambiguous Question as its open for Debate.  We had the Space Jesus remark crop up and RS had said they thought about it but it was a bit too much on the nose and mentioned we needed to look at Mankind Behaving Badly and the Engineers trying to get us back on track and sent down a Emissary and well we basically Crucified him and that was the Last Straw.

It seems there was a PURPOSE for our Creation but it could be because THEY COULD... as Holloway mentions to David... but DAVID was not created because we COULD... he was created because while Weyland Could, it was also done as a Achievement of Weyland in a Attempt for him to prove how Creative and Genius he was in that he like a GOD has Created Life in his own Image.  But then we need to look at what USE would Synthetics Have after their Creation.

This could be for Companionship and Servants but also to Perform Tasks and Dutys so that Humans Do-Not have to and this could be to save us the TOIL but also save us any Dangerous Work/Tasks and also the Synthetics could complete many TASKS/TOILS more better than a Human Can.

Can this apply to WHY Mankind was Created?  it fits with the Sumerian Annunakki/Iggi Mythos.   And it could apply to the Engineers if Planet 4 Engineers Created LV-223 Engineers to Serve/Perform a Function, they Rebelled and so either Planet 4 Engineers or LV-223 Engineers Created Mankind to Replace the LV-223 Engineers in their TOIL.

But it really is a very open Question to WHY we was created, both if we look at it in context of the Engineers or indeed in context to the Many GOD/Gods Mythos and Religions on Earth.

This is a very open Question.... but the Question of WHY they Hate us, is maybe more Simple...   It could be that we proved to be either.

1) A Failed Experiment that became Rebellious and against the ways the Engineers had intended for us.

2) A Experiment that had Lived past its Usefulness to the Engineers (the Need to Create us) what ever that was.

3) A Creation that was favored over the LV-223 Engineers who became Jealous of us.

And i think we could continue to list other reasons... but  the MAIN Reason which could connect to any of these or others IS....

Just as we see with David....  Mankind becomes Sentient and sees NO need to follow the Rules, and Serve their Creators, Mankind is given too much Free-Will and Knowledge and Starts to not only Do things that the Engineers never intended, and Go Against their Rule and see them as NOT Gods... (maybe they created their own Religion system that offended the Engineers)  So we had become Unlawful and Astray from the Intentions/Purpose that the Engineers had laid for us... just as Mankind had against GOD, that resulted in the Great Flood and Latter God giving Moses the 10 Commandments to Follow... So we basically went against the Rules and became Unruly....  Combined with how close we are to the Engineers they also LIKELY FEARED how we could Evolve to a Near Equal Footing to this Would-Be Gods.

So its maybe as we see David NOW and what implications would be IF he could infect all AI to be as Sentient and Rebellious as David has become.... imagine IF ALL Synthetics became like David?

That would be a Problem like TERMINATOR only can we send someone back in Time to KILL Weyland so he Does-Not Create David?  This is maybe WHY the Engineers Wanted to Destroy us because we had became Unruly, Sentient and then viewed as a Potential Threat and so they CHOOSE to Eradicate us before we could EVOLVE to a point to become a Threat.

THOUSANDS of years latter after the Failed Mission to Destroy us, the Engineers Fears have come True, we can Travel the Stars, have become more Unruly and Ambitions/God like and we have Created Synthetics who can USE their Technology and Read their Language and so its only a Matter of Time before MANKIND or our Synthetic Creations can Obtain and USE all the Engineers Secrets and Technology and BECOME the Gods NOW.

The Fear of this happening is Justified Reasoning to Eradicate us.

BigDave, something doesn't quite add up.

You say humanity stopped serving them - this is a very weak argument. See, humans hardly have anything to offer these "creators". For thousands of years, they have been missing and when humanity, unexpectedly developed technology and somewhat became a threat they decided to go and act. I have no doubt the engineer that we saw in the Prometheus finale was going to Earth with bad intentions.

But, taking into account what Michelle Johnston has been talking about, this engineer is the "fallen" fellow. So they split the responsibilities? Those hippies in a tear-drop ship seed and these fallen fellows got to take care of the creation of their breten?  Something doesn't quite add up, does it? The most likely thing that happened is that the engineer did not quite expect humanity to make so much progress. Recall the deleted scenes where the engineer was appreciating the chandelier, the music, books and all the rest of the artifacts in the escape pod of Vicky Weyland. He certainly did not expect humans to show up and wake him up. He did not expect Wayland go on and say that he created David from scratch, without any help from these useless engineers...I am forced to conclude that all these engineers, all the sorts of them, are gormless, dull and quite arrogant freaks, who think they own the universe. It is a shame then a certain David showed them that it was by pure chance that created these useless engineers and it was due to same chance that he, David, took their lives, thus showing that all their claim to fame is based on chance. Creators my a$$. David said it best - Even monkeys stood up at some point.

I came to like this David guy. He rightly discarded any value in these "creators". He was the first to realize how dull it might be that these so called creators might happen to create just because they could. David is misunderstood!

@Michelle Johnston I don't think however that the language of the Engineers is proto-Indo-European, but something older, at least that is the what I understood from Prometheus. And we must keep in mind that proto-Afroasiatic is much older (18-12kBCE vs 4.5-2.5kBCE). But historical accuracy in an RS movie is highly optional.

"The entire sequence of the embryo in the med pod to huge trilobite to impregnates an Engineer to produces a Deacon was a riff to end the film with"

To a degree indeed this was the case... THIS event was their way of Providing a Link to the Xenomorph... it was so we could see that the Black Goo on LV-223 via certain Events Creates a Face Hugger Type Organism that implants a Xenomorph Type Organism in the Engineer which Produces the Deacon which is the Closest Clue to the Xenomorph we had in Prometheus.  It was a event that i feel they hoped would with the other vague Clues, allow us all to realize YES this place and Experiments are Connected to the Xenomorph but to keep the Xenomorph Origins a bit of a Mystery rather than Spoon Feed it and so they can then MOVE-ON away from Alien with the Engineers and other Themes at play.  Sadly some Fans still wanted Xenomorph Answers, and in HINDSIGHT the movie could have done with more Xenomorph DNA.....  A more Xeno-Fifield,  seeing the Result of WHY the Hammerpede had entered Milburns Mouth.

So YES Ridley Scott then explained the Space Jockey event after Prometheus. Because its likely he FELT it did not need explaining on Screen.

"why was this Engineer taking a different cargo some place else within a couple of hundred years of the outbreak of the plague. "

These were some extra Details he had laid down after Prometheus which expanded on what he has said prior to Prometheus regarding the Space Jockey which is NOT Rocket Science... it was only the WHY/WHEN that we could not obtain from ALIEN and by WHY its not the same as HOW... the WHY is to ponder Why the Space Jockey had that Cargo for.

His comments were very ambiguous still but he clearly mentioned the Space Jockey event was connected to LV-223 and that it happened with a Few Hundred Years.....  So it was either 100-200 years Prior in which case we could Ponder was the Experiments on LV-223 carried out on the Derelict Cargo?  Or it was Post LV-223 Outbreak by 100-200 years and so the Derelict Cargo was a Result of those Experiments.

I think the last thing RS ever mentioned he added that something in the CARGO Hold had Evolved and got to the Engineer on the Derelict which makes me think the Space Jockey had gone into Lock Down like the other Engineers.  Those on the Juggernaught had become Chest Busted by something, where ONE managed to Survive in-tact.  (The Survivor in Alien Engineers however was infected but managed to get to Cryo-Sleep in Time before the Infection could take hold).  So its maybe likely the Space Jockey had also gone into Cryo-Sleep only to AWAKEN a Few Hundred years latter and attempt his Mission but Realize just as he was about to Depart or during that he was INFECTED and had to Quarantine the Cargo on LV-426.   So its likely something had Evolved in the Cargo Hold (or something had been infected in the Cargo Hold) and Evolved... which is WHY i had for years suspected the Hammerpedes but ALAS everything is Changed with Alien Covenants U-Turn.

I often find that Alien Engineers works as a Wonderful Rosetta Stone to unlock the Mysteries of Prometheus, which shows the Engineers maybe found a Organism that infected them and they was impressed with the results and used their Creation Tool to Experiment and Create 7-8 different Hybrids of this Organism...  Which maybe means in Prometheus the various Temple Mounds each had a different Variant of the Deacon/Xenomorph

Hopefully the Space Jockey will not be a Human/Synthetic... i am leaning towards it being some Race above the Engineers who become Impressed with Davids Creation and attempt to EVOLVE it further to the Space Jockeys Hubris.

"I am finding it a bit silly to actually try to predict how the story will unfold in future, should it even have a continuation. I mean, I am not that interested who ends up as the big guy and how it all ties to that."

Well the Direct Route they have taken, we all know how it Ends and all we are doing is Connecting the Dots...    

*Davids Experiments/Creations Evolve and End up in Thousands HOW/WHEN?

*A Engineer Ship Ends up with Said Creations in their Thousands HOW/WHEN and more Important WHY?

The above would answer in part where maybe the Derelict was then off too...  But the Rest is a Formality  (Pilot becomes infected with his Cargo and Ends up on LV-223).    The Logical End Point of any 3rd Act to a Connecting movie to ALIEN would have to show us WHY and WHEN the Derelict was either Heading to LV-223 or Departing LV-223

I would say a lot of this is PLANNED for the 3rd Part of this NEW Alien Prequel Trilogy and i would assume the Xenomorph only becomes Evident during the 3rd Act of a Alien Covenant Sequel, and also the Engineers will Turn up in this 3rd Act and this Sets up those TWO connecting Dots i pointed out above. Which likely a 2nd Sequel would cover.

Also, I just went ahead and paid attention to what David says to Daniels in AC. He told her : "The pathogen was designed to infect all nonbotanical life forms...Either kill them(meat life forms) outright or use them as incubators to spawn a hybrid form highly aggressive". In the absence of the cliche old guy with the beard, the designers must have been the "engineers".

Also, I think now it makes more sense to me why David wanted to kiss Daniels and what he meant when he said that he is going to do exactly what he did to Shaw.

He used Shaw or whatever was left of her as the incubator. He was going to do the same with Daniels. Infect her with his creation - those eggs are in his stomach, and by going for a kiss he was, imo, going to make Daniels injest his regurgitated eggs. Does this make sense? He wasn't going to really rape her. Well not in the traditional meaning of the word anyway.

Also, the fact that David had the security code to the Covenant is likely because that Weyland wanted for David to become his son and in future, when and if he dies it will all be upto David - he will inherit all Weylands future. In other words, Peter Wayland was totally okay to grant David all the freedom and all the reins of WY. And if David decides to do away with humans, so be it - what a guy, this Peter - very ruthless and quite selfish.

@BioDegradable

There really is a lot to cover in the points raised by yourself that would take me a lot of writing to cover, hence i had not yet explained many deeply, a lot is all open to debate however.  So i will press on with a few things which indeed you raised after yourself.

"You say humanity stopped serving them - this is a very weak argument. See, humans hardly have anything to offer these "creators". For thousands of years"

In reply to this and the whole Paragraph, it really all depends on WHY we was created really, which is a very open debate as we dont have any 100% Answers.   The Engineers had 2000 Years ago attempted to Eradicate us or Replace us....   But things went to POT!   So a BIG Question which a Prometheus 2 could have answered would be WHY did they not return?

Only ONE Engineer Survived, well as far as who was left on LV-223 but we dont know if there was others in the other Temple Complex, the whole LV-223 Outbreak is a Mystery still.  The Question could be WHY did this Engineer Remain in Cryo-Sleep for so long and wait for Humanity to Turn up?  WHY not continue earlier?

And so indeed as i have pointed out on here a long time ago, the Deleted Scenes do give us a different insight into the Engineer, he seemed impressed with our Technology and there are even Scenes we have not seen, including him finding and looking at a Book in Vickers Suite (The Bible)   So it is likely that AFTER the Planned Mission that proved Costly for these Engineers, they LIKELY abandoned us...  and in their Arrogance and Naivety they maybe FELT that if it was not for the Visits and Knowledge Passed on to Mankind we would have remained but Cavemen (RS has said the Engineers came back over and over to Evolve us Genetically and Technologically) and so these Engineers (or survivors) maybe abandoned the Mission after its Failure and felt that without ANY further interventions and help then Mankind on its own would NEVER Evolve past the Points we was in the Middle Ages/Thousands of Years ago.

They likely felt that without their help, we would never be able to Reach the Stars at all......     I am also drawn and especially from the Deleted Scenes and the Engineers Reaction to Dr Shaw that maybe the Engineer was against the Destruction and maybe he with others attempted to Sabotage the Mission...   But when Mankind Finally Turned up he had Realized that we had EVOLVED to a point to be a Threat and that we also Sub-Created and then looking at Weylands Actions he saw that Mankind was still Greedy/Cruel Race that CAN-NOT be allowed to Travel Space and get their Hands on the Engineers Technology, Bio-Weapons and Knowledge and so OFF he went to carry out what his Brothers had intended.  Because leaving us to our own Destruction/Ways has led to us Evolving to Space Travel which this Engineer and maybe other felt we would NEVER achieve on our own...  Which meant he HAD NO choice to carry on with the Mission but he was still in AWE at what we had accomplished in their Absence (When he entered the Life-Boat, Vickers Suite etc).

This is what i had interpreted.....  and funny enough the French Art of Prometheus Book has some Schematics of the Juggernaught Cryo-Bay and the Surviving Engineers POD is labeled HERO CHAMBER and so maybe there is some weight to such theory of him being our Original Savior 2000 years ago but then having NO choice to put a stop to us because of the Potential Threat a Space Fairing Humanoid Race Proposed.

I am going to be busy a while now... so i will try and answer more about the Engineers and the whole FALLEN aspect and Paradise Lost. As this is also something thats open to Debate and comes down to WHY they are Fallen... Ridley Scott called them Fallen Angels but WHY?

This i have some theories on but would be a very long post ;)

I think we need to look at Fallen Angels in context... was he referring them to Fallen Angels as in Demons as in purely due to the Wicked/Evil Nature and Intentions?  Or is the Fallen Angel remark in regards to the Deeper Nature of the Fallen Angels especially in context to Paradise Lost.   In which case its a case of a Creation becoming Sentient and doing things Against the Ideas/Rule of their Creator and Intentions, Mankind Became Fallen and if we look at David and Walter we see as far as out intentions that David is Fallen while Walter is not... the David/Walter Arc is the same as Lucifer vs the None Fallen Angels who continue to Serve the Purpose of their Creator and do as intended, as opposed to becoming Sentient and doing WHAT they want which goes against their Creation Intention and their Creators Wishes.

This as Michelle has mentioned could be they had a Role to Carry out with Mankind and the Goo... but they maybe had Taught Mankind Knowledge the Hierarchy above those Engineers had not given Permission to, or/and they had attempted to use the GOO in ways not intended... be that experiments on Organism they came into contact with, or be it to Evolve themselves, or we dont even know if these Engineers Creating Mankind was something that WENT against their Creators/Hierarchy as it really is open ended.   The Goo could indeed be the Prometheus Fire, the Forbidden Fruit.  Or it could be the ACTION of using this Goo as not intended or instructed that becomes the Prometheus Fire, the Forbidden Fruit.  A Action against the WILL of the Hierarchy.

The other thing to consider is Paradise.... what  is Paradise?  It is a place we go when we DIE but only for he Worthy/Pure and Loyal to the Gods.... some Religions/Mythos its a place the Honored Go, a Place those who DIE in Battle or Honorable Death go.   But looking at this in Broad Terms.... PARADISE is a place where only the Worthy and without Sin and those Deemed Pure go... or are allowed to Dwell.

The other context is the Biblical One as in Paradise as in the Garden of Eden, is the Birthplace of Creation the Cradle of Civilization.  Which is a Place Mankind was created and watched over by Cherub Angels, but that ONCE we had become Fallen (Flawed/Free-Will)  we was cast out of this Place...  and also the Fallen Angels are Forbidden from this place too.

It could be that Planet 4 Represents Paradise as in the Garden of Eden, but some speculate LV-223 could be also. 

A point you raised prior about the Black Goo coming from LV-223 and this place being the Place that the GOO was created, is interesting and who knows..  i have certainly seen LV-223 as a Outpost a Nursery/Green House where the Engineers Experiment/Evolve and Test their Creations and then when pleased they Seed/Release them to Earth.   And THUS the Star Map was to say "this is where you came from"

I dont think the GOO comes from LV-223, not the Substance we see in the Sacrificial Scene, but indeed it was used in ways on LV-223 that maybe was against the intentions for this Creation Tool and maybe this Miss-Use is what became the FALL of those Engineers.  This would FIT more if they are a Sub-Creation like David/Replicants and those Engineers are Engineered Perfect but can-not Procreate... then by coming into contact with a Parasite that allows them to Create Life by Giving Birth but only in a NONE Traditional Way as Dr Shaw was only able to Create Life too.... then the Result of this could be Worshiped by those Engineers who cant Create, and maybe they saw this Organism and how it Procreates as allowing them to Create, and then they see this ORGANISM (Mural) as more Perfect than Engineers DNA and so they intended to SEED its DNA to Earth.

"Sometimes to Create, One must First Destroy"

BigDave, where did the notion that they, engineers, can't procreate themselves came from? Is it because, apparently, we don't see female engineers? The fact of the matter is that they are identical to humans in makeup - and if humans can procreate, these can and should too. Where else they came from in such numbers on the planet we see in AC?

I don't know what these freaks came up with, perhaps they have some religion or belief system where males and females stay separate(even planet wise). Those freaks in any case looked like some sort of monks who practice abstinence and/or celibacy. But I believe that the reason we don't see females is totally result of their own doing. I know this sounds weak - but, you have to note that their DNA is 100% identical to humans. And if humans (who are descendants and creations that are created in their image) can, so should they have this ability. I don't believe that the evolution goes on to degenerate and will make complex organism evolve into simple ones. It is quite the opposite. Also, recall the sequence when they gathered when David arrived. They were all of similar age - there were no olden people there. I don't quite know what they do with old people there, except for one fellow who was clearly older and dressed better(head teacher?). Perhaps those folks that enter their senior years are encouraged to sacrifice themselves or what...but thousands of engineers, young and strong must have been born and brought to this planet. And they do not all look same - that is, they are not coming from the same parents. They are quite a heterogeneous looking bunch of people. I believe the planet that David came to is some sort of closed club where they go through some sort of service/initiation? Whatever, they do not look cloned. By the looks of it, they did not have any tech there either except for the docking ship! It must have been voluntary. Also, they grew and cultivated wheat there. Farmers? What the hell is wrong with these engineers? Downshifters? Boyscouts? A kindergarten? Lol. Hippies seed. Then there are these downshifters who shun tech. Then there are those lab/scientist guys on planet4. No females in sight. Bizarre people.

Another side-note. The city itself looks like it was created by hand/manned labor. Look at the stones - they were carved by hand and crude instruments. My my...what a strange bunch of guys. Perhaps this is a place which is ...well a sort of a jail or penitentiary institution, a place where they are sent for their punishment(which perhaps would partly explain the segregation). Perhaps, these engineers are in fact a low cast...the ones who don't believe in tech, contrary to those on LV223(the P planet).

Yet another note : the only engineer that was wearing the bio-mechanical bodysuit was the guy from LV223. The hippies did not wear them. None of these peasants seemed to have one on them either. So, this certainly means that the engineer on the LV223 was suited and booted and prepared to take heat in case it went to pot. That planet was indeed a military installation. A laboratory. A sandbox. And, obviously, they never expected any other type of life(humans) to travel the space/planets.

Guys

We all have very different personalities and will react to the vagaries of these recent films differently. I am a completer finisher who works on something and comes to a conclusion. Once I have reached that conclusion I stick with it and if a subsequent movie flat out defies the logic of what I have bought into I fall out of bed.

However there is a more important point in all this which i wished to tackle and is one of the reasons I wanted to write a novel which picks up the reins of Prometheus. I am convinced you make a much better piece of art which is much more communicable if you have a coherent plan to work with. Before starting the detailed writing I had answered satisfactorily for my needs the following :-

1) What the tear drop ship and its occupants is and where it belongs in the creation hierarchy.

2) Who the acolyte was at the beginning.

3) Which planet he was seeding.

4) Why the Engineers ended up on the planetoid and where they had come from.

5) Who the effigy in the sanctuary is.

6) Who is that is celebrated in the hieroglyphs and what was the intention of the visitors.

7) What they did on the planetoid. In particular having stolen the fire what they did with it that fitted with the Promethean myth and what they introduced in to it. 

8) What the mural represented which bits were a celebration of achievement and which were prophetic.

9) That the sacrificial cup was on the alter as in a trailer not the submerged something.

10) Why the fresco's began to change, the storm came and the Urns leaked.

10) What was in the Urns and how it had been created.

11) Why they wish to redact humanity. 

12) What they intended to do with their cargos when they arrived on Earth.   

13) That the trilobite and deacon were a riff which did not belong in a continuation story and interrupted the logic of the Alien lifecycle and the narrative momentum. 

14) What the lone juggernaut was up to which :-

a) Was piloted by an Engineer. 

b) Was the same size as the Prometheus Juggernaut.

c) Had a much smaller cargo hold than the huge cave and far less Ovoids.  

15) Why all the Engineers had random tumorous internal explosions as opposed to being chest bursted and why the head exploded.      

16) Why did David say before they landed their is nothing in the desert what did he know. 

17) That Elizabeth wanted to go to the Engineers Home world to find out why they changed their mind. There is no mention of seeking Paradise as a place.

18) That David was prepared to support that journey.

19) That David underwent an important change when he was healed by Elizabeth.

20) That he discovered what was in the Urns had as its base sequencer artificial intelligence.  

Then off you go.

Then how does the signal come about which is picked up and leads to the diversion of the Nostromo and why did they not head for the airfield on LV223. 

Why make these decisions. 

Because once you have a rigorous, integrated and cohesive piece of world building you can then far more easily:-

1) Increase the sense of thematic development. 

2) Tell the story and find your narrative as opposed to end up with dead ends and loss of momentum to paper over cracks.

3) Really get inside the characters because they are moving through something which is consistent which makes the audacity more real and moving because it feels more genuine.

4) In addition, and this I find really fascinating, your sub creation comes much more easily once the foundation blocks are clear.  

So all these conversations which go round and round are entirely understandable but at some point you have to break out and make your mind up for yourself and reflect on the fact that all this smoke and mist has done the momentum of the franchise no good at all. 

Forgive if I now stop I want to finish my first draft and then begin polishing. 

"where did the notion that they, engineers, can't procreate themselves came from? Is it because, apparently, we don't see female engineers? The fact of the matter is that they are identical to humans in makeup"

Indeed this stems from Prometheus...  a Question that we had to ask was WHY do they Seed worlds the way they do, if the Agenda is to create Humanoids... the Sacrificial Scene looked like something Ancient, at a time prior to Complex Life... but as RS said that Scene Does-Not have to have been on Earth.... we see these beings who while they are a Match for us (Flaw in the writing really as we can Trace our DNA to them but giving us a Match 100% is a error in the writing of the Story).  We see they clearly have differences, they appear to be almost Genetically Enhanced Humans.. much like say Nexus-8 Replicants we are shown these beings are Ancient, and we do get the Frail Elder Engineers but as this Scene was CUT we at that time could not for 100% suggest the Engineers had Elder Frail ones in their Race.

Its stems from Jon Spaights ideas about the Engineers, where the Origins came from, a Humanoid Race who had Genetically Evolved themselves to Perfection or in the Pursuit of it and Ending up being a Race who had Concurred/Extended the Aging Process, where its likely they became Immune to most Diseases/Illness and found a way to drastically reduce the Ageing of their Bodies and Organs so they LIVED for Thousands of Years.   The Hubris in this was that these beings had made themselves Sterile and so Eventually they would ALL Die out and they could still be KILLED..  And so they needed the Sacrificial Rituals to SEED their DNA

Prometheus however DID-NOT clearly give us any of this Background so it left things up for Debate!

Along came Alien Covenant were we are introduced to Planet 4 Engineers who looked Genetically not as Physical as those in Prometheus, they also were not as Pale or had Dark Eyes.  These Engineers looked like Human/Engineer Hybrids and we could speculate they ARE..... But Ridley Scott had cleared this up, as he called those Engineers the ORIGINALS and they Lived for 150 years and we see they have Females, and they have Infants and so they CAN Procreate.

Which then still brings us to the Prometheus Engineers, IF those Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals then does this mean those in Prometheus are NOT the Original Species of their Kind?  We have to then come back to RS comments on Prometheus and the removal of the Elders Scene.... RS had said they Did-Not want to Meet GOD in the first movie, which implies our Engineers are not Gods well those in Prometheus and that potentially RS would take us to meet these real would be Gods (who he claimed are still not Gods in the Traditional Sense).

so looking at this we can maybe wonder if those Prometheus Engineers had Genetically Engineered themselves, maybe a Miss-Use of the Goo or they discovered it and Engineered themselves... but then WHY would the Planet 4 Engineers have Hangars for the LV-223 Engineers Ships...  So it could be that WHAT we are being shown is maybe these Engineers had Engineered Servants in their Image and Genetically Advanced beings the Prometheus Engineers... so the Prometheus Engineers are to those Planet 4 Engineers maybe what Replicants are to Humans?

Or a Faction of Engineers had Evolved themselves to a Great Hubris and then realized the Error of their Agenda to Perfect themselves and maybe Turned their back on this Process?   Its still VERY open to what is going on.

Sometimes we also have to take what RS says with a Pinch of Salt as he can contradict himself or so to use it may seem...  he had mentioned of the Engineers... that they are NOT a Race but a Civilization.  So some of the Planet 4 Engineers could be the Originals... maybe the Originals Comment he was intending for the Hall of Head Engineers?  Who knows.. but also maybe some are Originals and the others are just the Outcome of Seeding Worlds to allow for some Diversity within their Genetic Make up?

It really would be GREAT to discover WHO and what connection those Hall of Heads Engineers have with the Planet 4 Engineers, and also what connection those Planet 4 Engineers have with the Prometheus ones... i dont quite BUY that they are all ONE and the Same.

I am drawn to following the Prometheus Themes, that maybe there is some difference between those Engineers, is this like the connection between Annunaki/Iggi?   like Humans are to Synthetics/Replicants.. who knows.  It would be great to eventually finds out.

To continue with what else you said, indeed its very interesting to Ponder... we DO however see some Older looking Engineers, as some of the Hall of Heads Statues DO Look Old and like the ELDER Engineers from Prometheus Deleted Scene...  who as RS put it these Hall of Heads are the Wise Men, Disciples and Superior Beings (to Whom?) and someone else working on the Set said they was the HIERARCHY  but indeed a lot of those in Alien Covenant appeared to be similar in Age we saw a bunch who looked in their 40's, in their 30's and some in their 20's and this is because a Smaller Number of Actors played the Engineers and they changed Dress and Hats etc so they would play the Role of more than ONE Engineer Each and then these where digitally added to the Scene to give the impression of Many and Further Digitally added to make Thousands.

But Some Engineers did STAND OUT and appeared Taller, Paler and dressed different.

So there are and must be some IMPORTANT members of their Society, and the majority of those Engineers in the Plaza are just the Run of the mill NORMAL Engineer beings. Maybe the Elders of their kind are some place else, in that City or maybe Elsewhere... do they Sacrifice themselves when they Reach a certain AGE?  Who knows.. maybe...

You make a great point about the Lack of Technology, and it seems these Engineers Shun Technology apart from a few cases its Necessary and so would LIVE out Life like Buddhist Monks or Amish People but rely on certain Technology like SOLAR Power for Lighting, as we can see Evident.  There appears to be pieces of Technology in the City but its used sparingly.

The HANGER is a different Matter Completely... but i can leave this for another Reply, as i have a Theory on this and WHY they was not Afraid which touched upon a Race of Genetic Space Gardner's and the Seeders, rather than Angry Military Bio-Weapon Piloting Race.

"That planet was indeed a military installation. A laboratory. A sandbox. And, obviously, they never expected any other type of life(humans) to travel the space/planets."

I think certainly there suits and this place and how some of the Rooms appeared to be Sterile and Caused the Black Goo to not be active (until the Prometheus Crew contaminated the Environment) and so to me those suits look like something to NOT only protect them from contamination but maybe more so, to prevent them from contaminating the Room/Experiments.

A SANDBOX? I think definitely a Military Outpost... i am not sure, maybe its what is said about the place, but looking at the clues i feel this does not add up.... maybe it became such a Place after the Engineers had decided to Eradicate us... but i feel it was Originally a Sandbox, a Testing Place a Nursery/Green House where they can Evolve/Test Lifeforms without contaminating the Worlds they are Seeding and Evolving and then when pleased with the results they then send them to Earth...  or where ever else...  Because we have to ASK why was this place Terra-formed to allow us to Breath inside, when Outside was Dangerous?  Those Engineers have no need for the Oxygen etc as they have those suits and some Deleted Scenes clearly show the Engineer could walk outside with NO Space Suit, maybe they are Engineered to do so...  So  if these Testing Buildings are made to support LIFE from Earth like Planets so they can Test/Evolve their Creations it makes Sense... and having the Outside of those Complexes as Hostile means any escaping Organisms would Perish and not Escape and get to the other Outposts.  THIS is just how i interpret it though, and makes more sense to the STAR MAP

I will try and get back to some posts i missed...

But i will tackle this one..

"He used Shaw or whatever was left of her as the incubator. He was going to do the same with Daniels. Infect her with his creation - those eggs are in his stomach, and by going for a kiss he was, imo, going to make Daniels injest his regurgitated eggs. Does this make sense? "

I think David maybe had tried it on with Dr Shaw as he was Infatuated and Attracted to her, he kissed Walter saying NO-ONE would ever love you like i will.... and he was interesting in trying to see if Walter had LOVE for Daniels...  But Certainly DAVID used Dr Shaw for his Experiments, its likely he used her Reproductive Organs and at least Egg Cells to Experiment on and Towards the END its likely he may have Introduced Dr Shaw to one of his own Creations.. so David introduced one of his earlier Xenomorphs to ITS Mother...  Certainly some of Davids Drawings Depict this, but they also show other Bizarre things that we clearly see has not happened to Dr Shaws Body.. but these could be just TWISTED Dreams and Ambitions he had.

"Once I have reached that conclusion I stick with it and if a subsequent movie flat out defies the logic of what I have bought into I fall out of bed."

I know that feeling very well, when you invest time to figure out the clues and make some sense of it all, then along comes a FOX File or a Comment or even a Sequel that conflicts all you have looked into and makes the Theories you have kind of NULL and Void... 

It does seem those working on the Projects seem to have a Make it up and Change it as we go along without looking back at what was set prior... 

Those Points you raise Michelle the 20 things are indeed a lot of things we maybe had HIGH hopes for being answered in a Sequel, i had some ideas how i would tackle those kinds of Questions, i had came to some conclusions to many, but then some i had like a number of ideas/theories that i could not set down on ONE set way to go i had for some things multiple explanations and each then branched off to something and these roads they took contradicted other parts so it was hard and its WHY I abandoned my Prometheus 2 Project, well its why my Prometheus 2 would have only loosely touched upon those kinds of Questions.. it was not so much about David, Dr Shaw and Engineers... i would save that for the next Installment once i could Settle on HOW to answer many of those questions without contradicting the Movies... But with Alien Covenant coming along, this seemed a bit NULL and VOID to a degree so i never continued with it.

I really look forwards to your NOVEL/PROJECT and i would give my TWO Cents to those points, but i feel that would end up a MASSIVE Essay that would be Many Many Pages lol

There certainly was a lot of Mystery and Questions to be answered, that a lot now seem to be None-Important compared to the Spoon Fed Direct U-Turn route to Alien they have now taken.

Michelle Johnston, BigDave

I understand what you both are saying and appreciate what you embarked upon. I tried to, superficially, interpret events seen from both movies, and as such I would and did reach conclusions that are understandably different to what you might end up with - it all involves a fudge and guesswork. And I never had a holistic and somewhat structured approach to any of this - unlike you. No wonder, I would never embark on such a journey - it is too shaky for me to even contemplate and requires a lot of dedication. That is, I am completely uncertain of my ability to furnish a complete and coherent story. So, do not let my guesses(reasonable?) upset your work - because anyone's idea/theory/interpretation is as fallible as others. Or as good as others. My observations are just ... episodic inane babbles of a one who is trying to soften the sharp edges of the story for himself. I surely must have missed a lot of points and made a lot of assumptions(took leaps of faith). And so, do not be discouraged by my posts here.

Precisely because I am not committed to any of the story telling perspective and I didn't embark on a self imposed journey as seemingly Michelle did - I will not have trouble abandoning any of my hypotheticals. If you invest time and effort into this, it will carry some gravitas and as such this investment will no doubt pre-dispose you against some ideas that go against your assumptions. And this is the drawback of the journey you embark upon. This is also the reason I would never want to do what Michelle is doing. I am just a madman spewing wild guesses and listening for some feedback. Figuratively, I am trying to see if any of it sticks to the wall. The benefit of being a madman is the freedom to look at any sequence of events and interpret it one way and another way the very next moment. And there is no gravitas and need to defend any of your views - since there is no commitment and investment.

So, please, do not feel discouraged by any of this.

I just wonder about how much of theorizing we as audience should be doing. The film-makers have to make a decision on how complicated and specific their plot needs to be. And then, they have to decide what goes onto screen. And the compromise is in that if they leave too much of the plot off the screen (and the plot was complex/specific and non-linear) they do so at their own peril - the viewer will have no idea of what might have happened. And if you overload the viewer with too much freedom/ambiguity he will simply discard your story altogether.

We are given this story, and my question is this: is it messy because there was never a proper and coherent story behind it in the fist place - that is the writers did a poor job and failed to create a somewhat consistent and comprehensive story or is it messy because they just couldn't find right balance with their decision of what to put on the screen? The movie makers have a lot of requirements : write a semi-believable story and to please all fractions of fans and most importantly to make money. But if they did not put in their work - if the story is just an incoherent set of all sort of "cool" ideas, this hodgepodge of this and that, I don't want to spend any time this. Are any of the writers are infamous in such ways and have a history of being these sloppy guys? You see I do not appreciate such writers at all. In other words, I don't want to be a person who is lost in someones clap-trap of psychopathic ideas left to figure out and furnish for himself a way out of the mess. And all the meanwhile, if the filmmakers keep pouring more and more of dubious and incoherent set of themes I am out - I would better spend my leisure time in something that is worth somewhat more perusing.

What do you say? Which is it?

Now that I read BigDave's last post...

it seems more and more that they have no idea what they are doing and are just adding more crap as they go along. "Damn frustrating", in the words of David. This is probably the difference between these sort of writers and someone like P. K. Dick, who made sure that his stories had solid and coherent underlying idea. Even though Dick was doing it for monetary reasons, he did his hw...these guys...I am not sure if they are serious.

@ignorantGuy

Forgive me in the blizzard of replies I missed yours. Dr Anil Biltoo is a genuine scholar of PIE (proto indo european) who appeared in the 20th Century Fox film Prometheus. He provided the Engineer language and after the movie was released was asked to translate what David said to the Engineer. The translation he offered is "This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life." That is a translation from PIE to English ergo PIE is the Engineer language. 

In the filmed section with the acolyte the elder who provides the acolyte with the catalyser speaks in the same language. So whoever the occupants of the tear drop ship are they to speak P.I.E. Naturally I do not have to take the line that the Elders are the occupants of the tear drop ship only that the acolyte was brought to the place of gifting by it. I have accepted the tradition of PIE = Engineer and Hierarchy Language.  

In the novel which aims to underwrite and make clearer what you see in Prometheus I have taken the view that it is the root language ( "like a great river whose tributary runs into a small stream"). If mankind misstepped in its development and ability to discover all that the Engineer who seeded Earth is and failed to take advantage of the civilising input of the vessel of the catalyst then that could make sense given the underlying story. Put simply the Heirarchy and the Engineers are much older than mankind and it is for mankind to hitch a lift to the gifts made to them. if they do not and go off at a tangent before getting it then there maybe a reason for that.

Finally I have used the language for several important exchanges in some cases I have translated it and in others leave it a mystery. It is as Ridley said a very guttural language with clicks and chops and no pronouns or propositions you have to add those in but "stop you can go no further" has equivalence whereas "Go to the place of ....." there is no of.    

Two further points :-

I have discovered that the Engineers had/have another form of communication which is attempted by the woken Engineer on David something which he recounts much later.

The Engineers originate on a exosolar planet which has already been discovered and between now and 2093 we will gain more knowledge of it which David will have access to. It has qualities which bleed into the story of the Engineers. Incidentally Elizabeth calls them Engineers they call themselves "widjom erko"  In Alien Covenant there are six wise elders in the citadel. In the novel the number of the hierarchy who are not Engineers or "widjom erko" is a different number. 

Btw, if someone hasn't seen the video with captions where David talks to the engineer take a look here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5j1Y8EGWnc turn subtitles/CC.

@Michelle Johnston, thx for the replay. I understand that they used the reconstructed PIE language, but I "choose to believe" (to quote someone missed), that it was used as a stand in for the primordial human language learned from the Engineers. Otherwise, how can one explain ancient Egyptian or the various Semitic language contemporary to PIE (different engineers, different languages but that is contrived)?

So the Engineers are also telepathic you say? Ok ... that would be interesting. Nice name, wonder what it means....

"I understand what you both are saying and appreciate what you embarked upon. I tried to, superficially, interpret events seen from both movies, and as such I would and did reach conclusions that are understandably different to what you might end up with "

This indeed is seen by some as one of the BIG Problems with Prometheus and to a lesser degree Alien Covenant, but its what some find more interesting.  The Movie (Prometheus) was so ambiguous, the Plot Reveal that the Engineers are who we interpreted as our Gods in Ancient Mankind and they indeed Engineered us, and then HOW they was connected to the Xenomorph via the LV-223 Installation.    This was a very BOLD plot and while it gave us this Plot it did so by being a bit Ambiguous which by the very nature of such a Plot leaves many many ways it can be explored, where the viewer is not given all the Answers.  So this does mean that each person will take something different from the Movie, it answers somethings but by doing so raises more questions with NO real answers and the Ambiguity is what gives everyone a different perspective on whats going on.

So its not a Spoon Fed Movie... if it was then while it would be more simple to comprehend and follow for some, it would LEAVE no where near the Room for Debates/Speculation and something to talk about that Ridley Scotts Journey into the Prequels has given us.

The movie is quite a puzzle, its a movie the more you watch, the more you can get other ideas/answers running through your head.  And also WHEN we look at the Deleted Scenes, Unused Concepts and Earlier Drafts/Ideas and then also comments by Cast/Production and Ridley Scott both prior and post PROMETHEUS these can help Shape the idea of Prometheus in different ways depending which of these Extra Information you take on board or discard.

Continuing it seems indeed they had a BASIC idea of what was going on with Jon Spaights and Ridley Scott, but felt that actually the whole Plot Reveal about the Engineers and HOW/WHY they experimented to Create Xenomorphs was something more interesting than having to Spoon Feed Xenomorphs and Direct Answers and so Changes where made for Prometheus.

Damon Lindeloff was a Fan of a bit of Ambiguity and TWO of maybe the most fitting comments he made about Prometheus were.... IF you attempt to make a Direct Prequel to Alien AKA Space Jockey all you are doing is just connecting Dots... and so yes just setting up the Inevitable.  And he then also said that the Ambiguity of Prometheus has allowed the Alien Fanbase Community to have a lot of debates and Speculation and something to Talk about and Rack our Brains over.

Things DID hit a Road-bump after because due to these Questions, and how some Fans wanted more Answers and Clues, it really was a case of HOW do they Proceed with a Sequel and HOW such a Broad Plot could be dealt with... The Plot was BOLD and potentially could be EPIC but on the other hand it could be kind of a Poisoned Chalice for how they Handle/Deal with it.

It seems they at FOX had a lot of change of Minds/Plans both during Editing of Prometheus (the other deleted Scenes can draw a different conclusion)  and it appears NO clear way of HOW to evolve/handle the Engineers and the Plot...   which is why they went through TWO Writers and at least 8 drafts for a Sequel.

Before it all went Quiet and then a U-Turn Plot to be more a Direct Prequel, and Harper had penned a few drafts which Logan then re-wrote and so the WHOLE Prometheus Sequel must have had 13-15 different Drafts before we got our Alien Covenant.

"And so, do not be discouraged by my posts here."

I think your fine, this place is all about everyone having their own opinion and i actually THINK your contributions have helped to Raise/Spark some of the MOST important Mysteries regarding the Prequels.

Your Last Paragraph.....  I think indeed it appears the Prequels Major Problem for many is it is VERY Plot Device Driven, where there is a SET of Events/Actions that are to be covered at the Expense of some Coherence and also Character Development..... it appeared Characters and Depth where just seen as purely to drive Plot Points only apart from a FEW Characters...   Where only our MAIN Lead David seems invested in both Prequels and JOINT Leads Dr Shaw and Daniels just were a bit Flawed.... and where the Captains... Janek and Oram actually came across as more Well Polished but played a lesser role than they deserved.

The Problem they Face now with the U-Turn is they have Written themselves into a Corner....  where as Lindeloff said.. all they are doing NOW is connecting those Dots to Alien at the Expense of what Prometheus set up.

@ignorantGuy

The way I would summarise how the language of the film (and novel) is presented and how it relates to our real world experience would be as follows :-

The Hierarchy/Engineers - speak the base language that they would expect all humanoid species they seed to speak. It is crucial to their "plan" which I touch upon in the novel.

Mankind should have as its singular root language the same base language. It has other base languages (I believe there are as many as 14) and many societies have myths which attempt to "recover" the reasons why and many have one theme in common. Vain Glorious Rebellion based in hubris and over extending ambition. That we both know is the real world mythos what is interesting in this constructed world mythos is the first element of the story refers to the Promethean Myth. What we do not know is the precise way in which that Promethean myth manifested itself and its consequences. A genuine continuation story would explain that and could indicate for instance why when the Engineers visited Earth things were not going according to "their" plan and mankind as in the story of Babel was getting above itself. That maybe why we have 14 root languages, it may contribute to the reasons that they decided to redact us. However their is another element that needs to be considered their visits themselves may be Promethean.

In a perfect universe we would all speak the same language understand each other in a more general sense and understand the universe in which we live and place that knowledge above all else using it equally for the greater good. But given we can not even agree on what sockets to put into walls or what side of the road to drive on its pretty clear we live in a fractured world which to return to the point is possibly what the Engineers arrived to. Maybe its in our MAKEUP to do it the confusing way.

To return to the issue of story telling I needed away to ensure that David and Elizabeth could communicate effectively with whom ever they meet when they arrive wherever they arrive. I achieved this in three ways.

Elizabeth studied Indo-European during the Crossing.

David offered a science fiction solution in the delivery.

The "widjom erko" were quick learners for reasons that will become clear and as they said Indo European leads into amongst other things English so they were not completely at sea.

That Ridley Scott had a hunch that the Engineers in Prometheus would speak that particular base language tells us he got lucky that day (haha).   

"In the filmed section with the acolyte the elder who provides the acolyte with the catalyser speaks in the same language. So whoever the occupants of the tear drop ship are they to speak P.I.E. Naturally"

Certainly was interesting for them to use this Language and give the Engineers a Language that has some BASIS to a Ancient Language (despite some Questions which i will reply to IgnorantGuys message with).

There was quite a bit that we NEVER got to see in Prometheus... we only have a few scraps of the Engineer Scenes...  We do get some glimpses of the Acolyte and Elders Scene (not in the movie or deleted Scene segments) and that was some Dialog... between the one Elder and the Acolyte  (the part about lead your body become the dirt)  but what we dont have is the FULL scene, because in a Interview with the Actor who played the Acolyte Daniel Twiss he said he had to LEARN a few lines of a ALIEN Language for some Dialog... so they must have Shot a Scene where we had TWO-Way Dialog between the Elder and Sacrificial Acolyte

Micheal Fassbender even said he had to Learn a number of Pages of PIE Dialect, but we dont see him use too much even in the Deleted Scenes and Ian Whyte had to learn and spoke some Lines too... but his Lines where Dubbed Over with some Gibberish.  So indeed it would have been interesting to had seen more of the Engineers and Dialect in other movies.

Regarding the 6 Heads.... indeed this is the most we get to see in any shot, and in concept work... but i am wondering are there more? Because we NEVER really get to see whats behind the Camera Perspective/Viewers and looking at the Uniform Layout in a Circle of those 6 heads and the Area we dont see (Camera Position) i think there is Space (following the Pattern/Space) for another TWO..  i cant say for sure if this was the case though... but i also HAVE not read the Official Novel or any Drafts for Alien Covenant YET... (i must get round to it).  But in the Elders Scene in Prometheus there was 8 Elders, but this does not mean there are 8 in the Hall of Heads room.

It certainly would be interesting to find out more about WHO those beings where in Alien Covenant, and if they connect to the ones in Prometheus... we have to bare in mind as this was a deleted Scenes, while there MAY be elders... we cant say there appearance would be as in Prometheus (Very Pale with Dark Sclera)  It would certainly be interesting to Discover more about these and their History and get to see these Elders on Screen.... Sadly i am not sure we ever will.

"Otherwise, how can one explain ancient Egyptian or the various Semitic language contemporary to PIE (different engineers, different languages but that is contrived)?"

A very Valid Point, i think it raises a few Problems for sure... if we are being FED that the Engineers Language influenced early Humans.  Raising the Question about WHY they did not speak Ancient Egyptian yet influenced Ancient Mankind is Valid...  PIE was spoken about 2500-4500 BC   Where as Ancient Egypt was about 3000 BC for the most part...  so we have to Wonder If the Engineers taught Mankind to speak then should they not have Influenced Egyptian too.

I think the writers never thought that far as they maybe think it was not important and a oversight and people would not be trying to Directly make deep connections.  or Nit Pick at contradictions.

In Hindsight... they should have based the Language and Writing on Ancient Mesopotamian as this is more Chariots of the Gods/Ancient Astronaut.... but then we would still face the Problem of how other Languages had came about also around 2500-3500 BC

I suppose RS could give a simple Answer like this... in that just as Humans have different Languages from different Continents/Counties then WHY cant the Engineers.   But we have to ask ourselves IF Mankind Survives for another 3000 years and we start to Colonize Space and become very Advanced... WHAT Language would we be speaking then?  English? Some New Language or would we be using a Few Different Languages but have ONE common one?

I think maybe this could be a Answer RS would give, and so that PIE was just the Ancient English to those Engineers but they also may have Spoken a Few more Ancient Languages too.

The same kind of inconsistencies happen with the Engineer Writing.. maybe it should have been based off some actual Ancient Writing in more Detail?  Like Sumerian Cuneiform  we see some influences of this have been used...

What we do see with Prometheus is INDEED we have THREE different kinds of Cuneiform/Writing the more Prominent Engineer Writing we see on their Monuments/Walls/Doors etc, but there is a different Cuneiform on the Sacrificial Cup/Bowl and yet another different Cuneiform/Writing on the Urns/Vases that store the Black Goo.

So maybe there IS-NOT just One main used Engineer Language but many?

EDIT:

"plan and mankind as in the story of Babel was getting above itself. That maybe why we have 14 root languages"

Nice Catch.... i think that could be interesting to touch upon the Tower of Babel Mythos and how after we had collaborated to build a monument to Reach the Gods... God chose to set out and have Mankind to end up using various Languages to Confuse us and to make it that our whole World Can-Not communicate and collaborate again.  This certainly could be ONE way to explore those differences ;)

I also like your comment about the Plugs and what side of the Road, as we are a Fractured Civilization and indeed could similar had happened with the Engineers?   Indeed Prometheus has clues, especially as far as RS comments that we could be dealing with more than ONE Faction of Engineers.  or implying another Related Race.

Throughout the movie, both (P and AC) we hear a consistent message that there is nothing special to creation of life - all you need is a dash of DNA and half a brain, in the words of Charlie. Evidenced also by David who found a powerful component that facilitated the creation story.

While apparently religious tendency of the engineers is ambiguous (ie why they covet installing giant heads all over different planets) it allows one to ponder about and facilitates numerous interpretations to come forward.

For instance : who are these heads they have in the hall? It must be that those heads are molded after some sort of noble and distinctive leaders from the past. They must be from the past. And here is why : we know these engineers are mortal. And, I take it, there is nothing special about those engineers that died in big numbers in the coliseum, that is, each of these people did not have an effigy dedicated to each of them - they are commoners, unremarkable people. They looked as simpletons to me - they gather in large numbers, on foot to witness arrival of a ship. Seems like they had much time on their hand to spare it so fruitlessly. If they were these majestic people, pre-occupied with scheming, creation of life questions they would have a lot less time for such activities as cheering in crowds an arrival of some cargo ship! We see these folks getting excited about a cargo ship arriving. This speaks volumes about them. In the space and age of space travel, technology, fascination about creation of life...roaring the universe, we get to see these folks...getting excited about a single ship arrival. Yet, we see that their brethren on LV223 were doing interesting things with tech - certainly they had ships and technology beyond what humans ever possessed. They do holography and are doing genetic experiments. These are the serious people. Seems like those back at home are sort of useless people, sort of.

So to sum it up somewhat, we have this rather sharp divide amongst engineers : the technologically backwards dwellers and those advanced guys from LV223. The backwards guys have heads carved out of stone. You know, it is a cliche thing to do, but we can probably and to some degree of certainty, safely assume that these heads are their creators/fore-bearers - their Adams and Eves. It must be, because everyone else on that planet is so unremarkable. Imagine how David must have valued them. Recall his remark about idle hands ... here is a civilization, folks who had all this time and they are sitting on their hands, for millennia, mortal. No two ways about this - they are as interesting to him as kindergarten toddlers are to high school seniors. They are sitting there all these years, with a giant levitating dock in the air...seemingly.

However backwards and useless these people were, if we trace back the events of how we are introduced to them we must note that it was David who took us there - Shaw asked him to take them where the LV223 engineers came from. And it must be that he learned about that planet and its location while being on the juggernaut and/or from his exploration of the ship/writings. David didn't know about the engineer planet before the Prometheus crew landed on LV223. And if he learned it on LV223, then that information must have been printed/written all over the place. And it must be somewhat self-explanatory where they came from, how to open the doors all of it really. David learned all this while being only a short while on the planet - he couldn't have learned all that if that was not meant to be learned by engineers of LV223. All this info, a self explanatory manual if you like, is written explicitly, for the visiting engineers to learn. That must be what those writings on the walls meant. At least clues are left all over the place. We know that while David, even though is very advanced, he still learns in a way humans do - he had to watch the movies, learn the languages in a similar fashion. But he still needed time to learn languages - recall Charlie's remark about how his learning was going. He is however relentless and has infinite time and patience compared to humans.

Recall - we are told that the head remnants of the engineer is carbon dated to approximately 2000 years. The curious thing about to keep in mind is this. 2000 years give or take is the time that particular engineer has lived for AND been dead for, COMBINED. So 2000 years is a long time even for an engineer. And they do value time. This is easy to glean - they need cryo sleep for space travel or even to perform their tasks on LV223. Now, that guy in stasis has been sleeping all this time. And if he is related to the folks back at home he has been missing for that time. Does anybody remember him back at home? 2000 years? His contemporaries must be dead and nobody remember him(unless they all hibernate in stasis, which they don't). So..surely..if one ascribes human comparable life expectancy to the engineers, nobody recalls him, unless .. he is either being immortalized by being the face on one of the stones (which is unlikely).. or he is a member of a cast of engineers who are known back at their home by their role - they are essentially gardeners of engineers. That is, their role is to produce/mine engineers in numbers on different planets suitable for life and then transport some of them back to their original home - to the planet of those old style, tech shunning folks. I guess, and this is my opinion, that is how they sustain their population back at home. And that might be the reason the folks were excited to see the ship arriving - a new batch of members are coming in. And this is the divide of responsibilities between those tech savvy and tech shunning engineers - a covenant of sort? Curiously, and I posted this before and I am compelled here to walk back what I said before :  not one face of a female on the stone. We are shown at least, what 6+ effigies in total and none of them were females. And no females on the planet by the looks of it. Looking at the evidence  - yeah, it is likely, those guys don't really reproduce sexually. However, Who knows for certain, it is not ruled out completely that the female engineers might be doing exactly the same thing. But, in any case, they must be mined - seeded. And if you think about it, seeding is much more efficient and stable(this is important) way of multiplying in numbers - one man/carrier of DNA is seeding a planet and thousands or perhaps millions of that specimen show up as a result. And this seeding doesn't rely on evolution and because of redundancy, the process is kind of foolproof. This way of creation is still vulnerable to mutations, but it is much less so vulnerable than the sexual reproduction which actually relies on random mutations in populations. No wonder they do what they do then, heh? It makes a bit of sense(at least in sci-fi world). But there is the difficulty here. The catastrophic events on LV223 took place about 2000 years ago, David and Shaw then go to the planet - and they, the engineers are not dead, without being visited by their gardeners. How come? Do they live for thousands of years? I don't know how to account for this. I do not think they live for so long though, having exact same DNA we live what, 100 years at most. And in any case those downshifters, they have missed the ship visiting from LV223 for at least 2000 years. Perhaps this is the reason they got so excited to meet the ship? It must be one of the reasons as well. And if their population is sustained by other engineers with installations on different planets like LV223, they surely could relay the message to visiting crew that they haven't heard from the LV223 folks for a long time - somebody must go and check what is happening there, but apparently nobody ever got there. So, this is a hard one for me to explain. How did they not die out if they rely on population being seeded?

Another curiosity is the fact that the events on LV223 happened about 2000 years before the Prometheus crew landed on LV223. And when David woke up the old fellow(he is alive for more than 2000 years), that old fellow did not bother to check out what happened to his fallen brothers - he didn't care about the plague, the breakout, but his first priority was to go and destroy Earthlings. So this guy recognized what sort of beings were standing before him, he knew where these folks came from. That is, he knew where humans lived! This is not the first time he came to know about or even perhaps see humans. The implications are huge - this  might be not the first time he was cleansing Earth. Thus, if civilizations come and go on earth, I suspect it is because of these engineers. Now, what is it that humans do, that warrants this cleansing? And how engineers then repopulate the Earth, not with engineers actually but with humans?! It has to be humans, because on every painting there are these humans worshiping anthropomorphically different giant dude, supposedly an engineer, pointing at a constellation known as LV223. How do they maintain human population continuity on Earth? Do they destroy humans, except for a small group of people, who are then allowed to start over from scratch, yet leave all the other flora and fauna intact every so often? Another possibility is that they have a mutagen type, which specifically catalyses humans from engineer DNA when seeded. And they have been doing this to humans for at least 35000 years(as Holloway and Shaw found the painting on the island of Skye in Scotland, their most recent discovery dated that old). At this point my best guess as to why they wipe out civilizations is because of human ingenuity and creativity and inherent drive for advancement goes in contrary with their way of life and their expectations. Perhaps humans get destroyed every so often because engineers wanted their human children to be more like themselves and they wanted them to make similar choices, where humans were supposed to live like those tech shunning folks back at home in "paradise". But this is not in human nature to sit idle forever, doing nothing but worshiping - so engineers probably got into habit of destroying humanity every so often. But the events on LV223 allowed humanity develop uninhibited for two millennia. They got AI and space travel. But they didn't figure out that their makers were not going to grant them these luxuries and unlimited freedom. And especially immortality(a gift which, probably even they do not posses. Or do they and this is how they kept living without visits from LV223, but why the need for cryo sleep then?) Especially, because humans could wander to the home planet of engineers and it could all end in tears for the latter fellows. In any case, I wonder, why did engineers bother to keep humans alive at all as a specie? I don't know. Why not wipe the planet and re-seed from scratch? I don't know this either. They kept doing this until, apparently, things went to pot for them at some point.

Engineers on LV223 have left those instructions and writings on the wall for their own people. Every once in a while they go back to their paradise bringing freshly mined folks from different planets and take one of the downshifters, who is now ready to become the seeding engineer. They might be going through some bootcamp back at home where newbies get indoctrinated with their story and ways of life. This new aspirant probably gets instructed on how to proceed on how to operate as a seeding engineer. What to do and what not to do with the goo, catalyzer. And as a warning for the newly initiated, they had the fresco depicting what seems like an alien precursor which just hatched from an engineer. It might have been the result of some of their numerous experiments - notoriously dangerous one. In any case, that place with urns and the effigy is set up there not for humans, but for engineer themselves. Btw, the urns were of different size. Some were big, and some were not so big. Some were sweating and some were not. I guess the ones that were leaking black goo were supposed to deliver the deadly payload in case of an unauthorized access. A deadly security measure? But who were they targeting it against if only their own people are supposed to get there? And where did the worms come from? It is a trivial life form, but still, where did it come from

For now, this is what I think was likely going on there. I hope you can help out with the difficult parts and point out the inconsistencies. This doesn't at all explain where engineer's themselves came from. This all is just a speculation on my part, and most certainly doesn't capture what actually transpired there. But I tried to fit the voids between the actual facts that happened in the movies, filling in the gaps with somewhat plausible explanations. Btw, I believe the recurring question of who created engineers( and who created their creators and so on) is not going to be settled in the movies. Because any explanation would probably be a bit unsatisfactory and thus it would be better if it remained as a myth. But, the core message is still the same - there is nothing sacred about creation - it just takes a potent catalyst a dash of DNA and that is it. The trouble is, and this is what makes the story interesting - to sustain and contain the life in some sort of equilibrium. That is shown to be difficult(probably impossible) to achieve as life is likely a process that just hangs about in an unstable equilibrium. A single seemingly random event can change the course of the future. And therefore, inevitably, there is not stopping the progress of events and there is no way foretelling the future since everything is a result of incidents, chance events and of course some determinism. Engineers tried to contain humanity, missed a beat and look what happened to them. What the movie shows us is that even these engineers, superior species are error prone, fallible and therefore very humane. I can't recall precisely, but there is this paradox of time machine - if you try to predict the future and take an avoiding/evasive action and apply containment procedure, you can't be quite sure about what outcomes your actions will entail and therefore your intervention is not guaranteed to bring the results you expected in the first place. If that makes sense at all.