The DAVID Dilema

Incidentally, after reading all of the posts made here by BigDave, I see same theme being pitched - Elizabeth lives on, as xeno with David the father. This is pure coincidence, I assure you. In essence,

As for how this can continue, I don't really know. But what is clear is that engineers themselves are nothing special, however, the key question is - "who created them" is very intriguing. I would prefer it if the story of creation of the engineers and or their progenitors involved chance and billions upon billions years of ruthless evolution.

I suspect we are not going to get a documentary that would show us how the world started and the answer to the recursion of who created them, if they created us is pretty meaningless, as either it is some sort of god ( and if so you can roll your favorite story which suits you most ) or not. And if not - then it all occurred by chance, without grand design and hence all this determinism which it necessitates. And this start, by chance while still remarkable, but would require a lot of imagination to put on film. What would you expect? Quantum Mechanics documentary inside A L I E N movie?

I am sure, Ridley can knock up a team who can work out a script such that a chest bursted big man ends up on some desolate planet, when as a starting point you have a ship with thousands of colonists, Daniels, Tenessee and Walter/David with his children from Elizabeth onboard. Who knows, perhaps there are some engineers left as well who might want to join the party.

In short, if they make a movie, we could get a super exciting plot of war of the worlds, for "fans". I say "fans" because, there are so many of them. Some want horror. Some action. Some want more of Prometheus. Some want more of A L I E N. I think this is the problem for FOX - who is the main target audience? Who is going to go to the movie? Who are these people? I don't know. I have seen by the example of BR2049, that legacy means jack shit - if you don't target teens, females, dad & moms then you will lose money.

I think the great thing about this is that Ridley is onboard. This means quality. If the storywriters write a good script we will have another great movie. If not, eh, it was fun anyway. They managed to create so many fans - A L I E N fans. Prometheus fans. AvP fans. Alien 3 fans. The A L I E N story, being only 30-40ish years, is very popular. Certainly, more popular than abrahamic religions, if you note that they have been running for what, 2000+ years.

Guys 

I have read your remarks and hidden within each reply is oddly some of the truth as I see it which I am realising in this novel and I would say the following :-

David

He recognises, now he is free of his servitude to Weyland and in the story is free of Robot apartheid, and with the encouragement of Elizabeth (and ......) that to make his mark, find his place in this constructed universe is his way forward. It explicitly is not to return to earth or go to planet 4 and B52 the planet with agent black goo (Incidentally why didn't David do a course correction in A.C. and bomb earth he had no desire to go to Paradise according to Prometheus). He is much more invested in why Elizabeth healed him rather than why the Engineer ripped his head off when they all rocked up. He sees Weyland and the planetoid Engineers sub creative desires as Promethean (oh and so did they and so did Ridley Scott) and though a child in many ways he deduces in the years of travel between the Planetoid and the Engineers Home world that he must pierce the veils of all this hubris and find the real answer which neatly leads on to his boy crush. So he does not want to so much create or have a sense he can not create (presumably he doesn't have the tackle or the drive) but he wants to find his place in creation. So he has a creation desire but not to create or maybe indirectly who knows.

Elizabeth.

Elizabeth 'where do we go when we die daddy' Shaw has realised that this is a whole lot more complicated than a guy with a deep voice and a big beard that you get admission to through the JC meet and greet. Like David she is not enamoured of her creators (for the planetoid Engineers are mankind's creators thats what Prometheus tells us). She then gets to learn more of the truth and realises the universe is even bigger than when she left the planetoid BUT she holds fast to "man will not quite be lost" and recognises  that there is only one way to find her answer and that answer is one of the huge themes of the entire series.

David and Elizabeth

Jack Paglan and Michael Green who wrote the original drafts of Prometheus II were big on transformative stories in the other movies they had just come off. Personally I thought they would have been correct to apply that theme to D. & E. and its that which leads to them taking the same route to a very different destination and then there is the curved ball "who made them" how do they feel about David and Elizabeths chosen career path of galactic tourism.

And you can still make the brooding Ovoids left in that eerie blue light really important to the story. But you do not have to have yet another crew, dripping water, dark corridors and Ripley or sub Ripley attitude to tell the story. Indeed if you give the "brooding Ovoids" more context as to what was going down with them you can make the Morb. as it appears in A L I E N even more fricking terrifying and it doesn't even have to turn up which saves productions costs on KY Jelly.            

A bit more of my rambling. If this gets on your nerves, let me know - I will shut up.

I actually think David's motive might be borne out of this contrived fairness(this rather tells a lot about me, doesn't it?) :  he wants fairness for Elizabeth. For his Elizabeth. You see, somehow, she was screwed by all other parties in the Prometheus enterprise, including by David. As a result of numerous events she died. And she was a good soul, especially, according to David. This is indeed a bit unfair. And who is to blame? It is complicated, but if you think for a while you could reach two diametrically opposite answers: everyone or no one. Since David is a bit mad. We go with the former.

The humanity...those folks on Earth are implicated, even though they had no say in this, they are collateral damage in all of this. They are a dying species anyway, wanting something that was not given to them in the first place. Moreover, they are just as ordinary as their useless "engineers" to David. And these useless engineers, oh bloody useless lot...you see, through their sloppiness they allowed to contaminate the place Prometheus inspection crew wandered in. Not only that, they actually placed those ancient drawings in the cave all over the Earth.

Do you recall the question and answer David asked and got from Charlie where the latter told David that they created him because they could. Imagine you go to your god(suppose there is one and you can go to one) and you find out that this god is actually pretty stupid, certainly not smarter than you, goofy and created you out of boredom. That is he created you just because he could. A rational creature would appreciate the fact that he was created as a result of this, even as a byproduct at first, right? But what if you learn that the god who created you is mortal and you are not. He will die and you will not. He is like a fly and will die on his own, shortly. What if this god doesn't know who created him? Is he god then? No, he is merely a chain in the link. He is a just another link in a chain. And there are a lot of vices in this god. Then you learn that those gods are not only stupid, mortal but are in fact pretty unfair not only to you, a superior specie, but to each other. If they do not respect themselves, why should you respect them? The example of unfairness and wickedness is Weyland and his goal to find immortality at the expense of the lives of his unsuspecting crew and even his daughter.

The engineers. They, having all this time didn't manage make themselves immortal - even monkeys would do it...so not only they are technically useless to David because they are backwards and inept but they are the folks who set the pieces, that others played, which all lead to Shaw's death. So they are responsible. Everyone is responsible. Therefore if they die they die.

BTW, the xenomorph is as efficient as a machine. And it carries some of Elizabeth. So it is a perfect organism as far as David is concerned. It all works, right?

I have certainly came to appreciate Alien Covenant. And I always liked Prometheus. I was initially appalled by the discontinuity of the story. But now that I compensated that by telling myself this little story/theory I am content with AC much more. I like it. Amazing.

@Michelle,

if you sort of accept and sort of agree with the messages/ramblings I(BigDave and perhaps many others) have been posting here, David is not that two dimensional, is he?

I am bothered a bit by the idea that if the viewer of the movie was supposed to work all this out by himself, and this all was indeed the story that was told by film-makers...I am afraid they won't get the love back from many movie-goers...it took me almost a year of sleep on this movie to figure out so that it made me happy. I am not sure lots of others would bother to think about the movie this much. ( apart from you nerds! )

"Could it be that David loved Shaw?"

First Thanks for the Replies BioDegradable and Welcome aboard.

This is something that is indicated but its something a lot of people throw out because of how David Treated her...   This whole situation is a bit of a Mystery as we have NO real coverage of the events that Transpired.   Prometheus had TWO Endings, well TWO different Dialog Scenes between Dr Shaw and David, the ONE we see that Dr Shaw treated David in a harsh way but maybe just as he deserved "Because Your a F"$"£% Robot" before stuffing his head into the Bag Hard.  This really would set up a bit more Tension between them and we would be lead to think that Dr Shaw would have a HARD time Trusting him at all... But Alas Eventually she would have NO CHOICE.

The ONE we got in the Theatrical she merely says "Because Your a  Robot" while Gently putting his head into the Bag.  This ending showed that Dr Shaw has somewhat of a Compassionate/Forgiving Personality maybe She felt David as a Robot was only following Orders.

So we get to the CROSSING and in the Final One we got, it Pretty much goes Hand-in-Hand with the Theatrical Ending.   Where as the Full Draft of the Crossing was different, where Dr Shaw had a Great deal of Distrust and Disgust in David... She uses him to get the Ship into Orbit then Fires his Head into Space....  only after time she Reflects on what she has done and knows she needs David to get to Paradise... so they then begin to get along, and even to a point they have a Intimate Relationship and its Portrayed that Dr Shaw has FALLEN for David.... Then he basically screws her OVER.

The Crossing we got shows that Dr Shaw becomes Sympathetic eventually with David and kind to him, which makes David FALL for her.

David is a Complex Robot, who has the Free-Will of Emotions and his own Desires, it is likely he FELT Alienated and Mistreated by Mankind and Seen as a Robot... and he felt that Dr Shaw treated him more like he was NOT a Robot and so he then began to have Feelings for her.

I think its likely his PLATONIC love changed to Actual Love, where as Dr Shaw would only have Platonic Love for him....  I feel it is likely he had ONE Day made these  feelings known and had tried to make a MOVE on Dr Shaw as he did with Daniels and this may have freaked her out!   I wonder if this had combined with either Davids continued Pursuit and some kind of Offering to Create Life Together had further worried Dr Shaw or that after his first Pursuit or another she Ran off and DISCOVERED the extent of what David had been up to and was Shocked.

Why she could even had Discovered what David was up to and he could have given her a Explanation that he did it all to Wash this World Clean so that THEY could Start a New Paradise Together, and he could offer her the Chance to Create Life and at this POINT he could have made his move on her and Proclaimed his LOVE for her.

All of those Scenarios are possible, and the outcome is she became very concerned with her Safety and Davids Sanity, that maybe she Shunned him and tried to escape...  I feel David would have taken REJECTION bad and soon Love Turned to Hate.

This can happen in real life where someone can LOVE someone so much and so deep, but that Person is NOT interested and WOULD never reciprocate any Love or Care back... It only takes ONE or a Few Hurtful Words to the Person in Deep Love... for them to realize this Person they LOVE will NEVER be in Love Back, and then the Realization of HOW much the Person in Love is Infatuated with the other Person could make that Person feel uncomfortable and then choose to Avoid them.  I have seen this happen where GOOD Friends, are Split because ONE is in Love with the other and ONCE the feelings are known, the other Person cant continue even as Friends and so the Person in LOVE has not only LOST any chance for the Love to be reciprocated but also see the Close Bond of Friendship Break down..... and THIS sometimes can cause the Person in Love to the turn to LOATHE.

Situations like this have happened in Real Life to the Degree that the Person in Love then either Abducts and Imprisons the Love Interest or even Kills them so that IF they cant have THEM... Then NO-ONE can.  And i am drawn to this is what became of David and Dr Shaws Relationship. 

"Some want horror. Some action. Some want more of Prometheus. Some want more of A L I E N. I think this is the problem for FOX - who is the main target audience? Who is going to go to the movie? Who are these people? I don't know. I have seen by the example of BR2049, that legacy means jack shit - if you don't target teens, females, dad & moms then you will lose money"

This in a Nut-Shell has HIT the NAIL on its head...  looking at what Michelle has been hinting towards may make a interesting movie for some, but for others it would be something they would not be interested in because its STEERS to far from what Alien was all about, and Michelle's comments "But you do not have to have yet another crew, dripping water, dark corridors and Ripley or sub Ripley attitude to tell the story. Indeed if you give the "brooding Ovoids" more context as to what was going down with them you can make the Morb. as it appears in A L I E N even more fricking terrifying and it doesn't even have to turn up which saves productions costs on KY Jelly"     

Are very Bold, a movie around maybe Dr Shaw, David, meeting other beings with NO Humans from Earth/Weyland-Yutani involved and NO beast!  A interesting concept for sure, but its if certain Fans could connect to a movie that has NO Humans... but that does not mean we dont see Humans/Humanoids because well Prometheus showed us that Earth CANT be the only place those Engineers Seeded.  So you could meet Humans and Humanoids from other places in the Galaxy the Problem is Communication as well its a bit Star Trek/Star Wars if Alien Races Speak Perfect English.... but then a Plot Device that allows Dr Shaw to learn or have implanted the  means to Understand them could be used.. or Telepathy or a Device.

So Michelle's idea could be very interesting to some, my ideas touched upon David and Shaw in part but also Earth more so but the BIGGEST thing my Prometheus 2 Plans had was AI and the Engineers and Dr Shaws Quest would be answered in the 3rd movie.

But AGAIN even my ideas would also not appeal to a majority of the Fans, who would only see a ALIEN Prequel as having to connect more with ALIEN... When Prometheus was set to open up another AVENUE and Steer away from ALIEN and maybe give us something Different.

This was sadly changed just as you pointed out in the Paragraph i quoted from you...  that FOX had felt any such direction would lead to a Movie that maybe would not appease the ALIEN Audience and also that they would need the Xenomorph and its Origins Answered as a Matter of Importance above the other things that Prometheus opened the Doors too.

But it is about $$$$ and a risk to expand on the ALIEN Universe with something that is different to the Alien Movies, yet its a shame as Prometheus opened up a lot of Doors for Potential Expansion so the chances of exploring some Deep Philosophical Stories and Angles like Michelle has in mind and Myself are Sadly things we may not see.

But Certainly are something i HOPE a Official Novel can cover, as there is a Whole Lot that potentially could have happened in those 10 years since Prometheus and Alien Covenant

Thank your for your wecome, BigDave.

I think David is not a simpleton, like I initially conjured. He loved Shaw, truly. From the AC we know he doesn't know how to kiss, so I doubt that he tried anything physical with Shaw. Even though they didn't exchange chemicals and bodily fluids, his feelings towards her might have been very powerful and sincere. The motivation? She was kind to him and most importantly, she was being kind to him without being needed to, so he knows she was genuine and pure. Also, she was innocent in the whole affair but still got the short stick - there case can be made where she suffered and died because of everyone else. Anyway, I babbled about this above.

As far as the story telling goes - who knows what they will come up with. Any continuation is good news. If they do decide to make another one it should be applauded. Because the alternative would be not so palatable - they could shelve the project until we are all dead.

I decided to adopt the view that Elizabeth died because of side effects of her gestation and subsequent birth-giving to the alien trilobite. That thing has hacked her DNA for sure. It is also now apparent to me that David has decided that humanity and these useless engineers are just trash not worthy to live. He, on his own, in short space of time could figure out their speech, writing and with a bit of observation he even can pilot and navigate their ship. Besides, he has one more reason to dislike them - they had all the time in the universe, the most potent mutagen at their fingertips, yet, they did nothing. How is this possible? David hates them surely - recall his remark, idle hands and all that. I would pay money to watch David insult these engineers for their incomprehensible, zealot like stupidity. FFS they didn't even bother to improve their own DNA in order to live longer. They really are just guarding dogs, unworthy of their creation. Worse than humans! Look at Weyland - he wanted to use tech to live longer, and these idiots had all the tools given to them and they were sitting doing nothing. I am as mad as David at them.

Now, BigDave, how is it that David was going to create life with Shaw on Paradise? She couldn't reproduce, with him anyway. And then she died. To "save" her, he immortalized her by creating the xenomorph using some of her markup, which is the most he could salvage from dying Elizabeth. I think she sent the beacon towards the earth so that people do not come into contact with David - he will not like them. They better stay away. Only she is tolerated and loved.

I wonder what David is going to do with the colony, Tee and Daniels. His perfect organism is complete as far as he is concerned. His children are not compatible with humans. I guess, his plan is to see out how his children will colonize the planet. But first he needs humans to settle, multiply...and then he will unleash his children on them so they can probably go on and create many other forms of their species from flesh and bones of humans used as hosts. But things will not go according to his plan when engineers show up for their revenge. David will probably give them a good battle but somehow will get killed in the process, however he will certainly mange to sneak his child onto the engineer and this unsuspecting engineer will end up being the big man on the derelict, chestbursted :)

In any case, it is fun fantasizing. It is unfortunate, though, that AC did miserable at box office.

@BigDave

David/Shaw narrative momentum from her survival.

If you are going to have a credible narrative from that point onwards you have to look at what they have done to each other up to that point and the single biggest thing is David has spiked Charlie's whisky.

If you then move through the Crossing we received the single biggest thing is Elizabeth heals David.

You then have to work out how David will react to those two actions and determine what is a credible reaction. 

You have to also consider whether Elizabeth had an inkling as to whether David was somehow responsible and decide what to do with that. 

Finally you have to decide whether there are down stream consequences to Elizabeths reproductive system from the pregnancy and depending on the answer that has dramatic potential. 

Naturally you can look at the theatrical dialogue of the end section which is much more gentle than the extended cut and of course the Crossing. But once Elizabeth enters Cryo stasis one is walking off the edge of a cliff and you have to rely on your creative instincts.

My own view is when we pick up with David again which is really from the moment of the flute scene its complete nonsense. Suddenly he has a creative chip, then he has a sexual chip, then we move into the bizarre business of the grave and the preserved body and the I loved her and I also raped her. The only logical coherent idea is a Misery kind of vibe but frankly by the time I have worked that might be an option I am just not interested. I must add A C has nothing to do with what I am attempting.  

BUT you can take David and Elizabeth forward in a profoundly moving way without being sentimental and its actually very easy because they have so much to deal with like the truth and what to do with it and they are both on such a big search its more like two athletes goading each other on to survive and finish.

Both of You.(Biodegradable and Big Dave) 

I am absolutely certain most people will be bored witless with what I am working on. There is a scene to rival the bombardment of the Engineer City and there is a never before in an Alien film scene with a Juggernaut. Stuff happens on "the planetoid" which will be of interest and Elizabeth goes through the ringer. There is a scene much bigger than the sanctuary in Prometheus BUT there are no chest bursters or action chase scenes.

But most of it is like a talky episode of Star Trek where the ideas are the audacious element. If its like anything in the Alien series it would be pacing of the first two acts of the assembly cut of A 3 particularly the nice stuff between Charles Dance and Sigourney Weaver.

"it took me almost a year of sleep on this movie to figure out so that it made me happy."

This is the same kind of Problem that Prometheus had and maybe more so, because it was a movie that does not reveal much.  Its a movie you have to watch a few times and think about and research and re-watch before things start to make more sense and the movie grows on you, sadly for the average viewer they dont have the time to invest in such and so its a misunderstood movie.   Blade Runner was also like this.

"He loved Shaw, truly. From the AC we know he doesn't know how to kiss, so I doubt that he tried anything physical with Shaw"

David seemed to be obsessed with how Walter should feel for Daniels, and when he confronted her as she was snooping around and FOUND OUT Davids Secret he said he was going to do to her as he did with Dr Shaw.

Now what happened to Dr Shaw is she is DEAD we only have Davids word for what happened, but certainly he used her for experiments and his drawings depicted many strange ideas he may have had in mind for her.  But what he also did was TRY IT ON with Daniels.

We can maybe only go by some comments by Fassbender who claimed David and Dr Shaw had kind of a Marriage Relationship before things went to POT that is.   And ON-SET some people reported that it appeared Dr Shaw had been Holding herself up in the Juggernaught as if to HIDE from David.  And i am sure someone mentioned that she indeed was keeping away from him at some point.

So while its a bit of a Mystery i think it could be that David had tried it on with her at some point, and after Rejection something happened where he either Killed her, or she died trying to escape and in her Honor and Memory he began to use her Body to Create Life.   David maybe had offered her a chance to Create Life and maybe had ideas to Evolve her which she took offense too.

"She was kind to him and most importantly, she was being kind to him without being needed to, so he knows she was genuine and pure"

I would say this would be his conclusion... the whole Ending of Prometheus was interesting as it left it open to Ponder what kind of Game of Chess and Cat and Mouse they would play..  They NEEDED each other, but She knows she cant trust him as once he is back in one piece and once She is in Cryo-Sleep he is FREE to do what ever he wants.  And he knows that without Dr Shaw he will remain in TWO Parts and be of NO use... so there was a interesting Dynamic that happened during the Period between Prometheus and Alien Covenant and i think there is a STORY to be told there.

Some people Overlook the Ending of Prometheus and Forget that after the Point that Dr Shaw escaped the Engineer/Trilobite that about 4 days passed by before she LEFT the SOS Message.  But also left us to Ponder WAS David back together in order to FLY that Juggernaught at the End?   The Crossing reveals that he was able to get the Ship into Orbit while in TWO Pieces but was assembled WHOLE before they set off to Paradise/Planet 4 so they must have come to a agreement, but then ONCE they are in Space David could then want to be put Together as reward for his Part of the Bargain...  Looking at Dr Shaws Hair it appears she would have spent 4-8 Months debating and talking to Davids Head before she makes that Choice to Assemble him and in this TIME they would have Bonded.  It appears at this point Dr Shaws intentions are sincere but we just dont know with DAVID's

"I decided to adopt the view that Elizabeth died because of side effects of her gestation and subsequent birth-giving to the alien trilobite. That thing has hacked her DNA for sure"

Its Certainly possible and in the Crossing she did look a bit Worse for Wear, but this also could be because she has had to survive a number of Months on a very Scarce Diet and so was suffering from Malnutrition.  It really is open for Debate to WHAT effects the Contamination of the Black Goo had upon her.

I think a lot depends on HOW the Black Goo worked and HOW she was infected, if Holloway merely passed on a Parasite to her Womb like Transferring a Sexually Transmitted Disease then there is a Good Chance she could suffer some complications and we have to ask WHY has she not given Birth to another Trilobite or indeed gone  DOWN HILL like Holloway did?  If the Black Goo Evolved Holloways Sperm into a Hybrid Sperm then this would give more reason that ONCE one of these Cells had Infected/Ferilized Dr Shaws defective Egg Cell, then maybe as with Normal Sperm the remainder DIE OFF this could give a good reason to HOW/WHY she seemed to not be suffering any Drastic Effects at First Glance.  But again its a case for debate as there really is 3 ways the infection worked, with no answer to which is actually what happened.

"FFS they didn't even bother to improve their own DNA in order to live longer."

I think indeed the Engineers are revealed to be Mortal After All but i think Prometheus had a few errors in the 100% Match, i think it was intended to show us WE came from them.. but we are not 100% but this is open for debate...  The intention with the Prequels starting with Jon Spaights work was that Humans Evolved from Primate DNA being Mixed with Engineer DNA to make a Hybrid.   Now the idea with Jon Spaights work was these Engineers had Evolved themselves over a LONG TIME  to the point they lost their ability to Procreate and they also LIVED for Thousands of Years.  But Alien Covenant introduced us to those Not-So Engineers, who looked more like a Engineer/Human Hybrid.  Ridley Scott made some important comments about them, he called them (Planet 4 Engineers) the Original Engineers and that they LIVED for about 150 years.  This could imply the Prometheus Engineers are a group that either Genetically Evolved themselves or they are a Genetic Creation/Tool created to Serve just as Replicants/Synthetics are to Mankind... this is how i interpret it now, but i did Wonder as such a while ago in context to a Annunaki/Iggi relationship.

But Certainly David would see them as being not suited to the Gifts they had, and how they have Fallen by the hands of their own Attempts to Evolve and Create Perfection and the Black Goo which we can assume has NO effect on Non-Biological Life like David. So David will feel that it was maybe Destiny for him to Continue and use these Tools that prove Fatal to those Mortal Beings but not to David.

"how is it that David was going to create life with Shaw on Paradise? She couldn't reproduce, with him anyway"

This is a Fascinating Question we know Dr Shaw cant create life, but the Black Goo via Holloway allowed her to Create Life, the Question is HOW, which has 3 likely Scenarios.   But the Bigger Question is the Black Goo and what can this stuff really do, what happens when Direct Contact with the Black Goo with a Extracted Human Egg Cell, what kind of Mutation would occur and surely it would be NO risk to the Woman as her Eggs are extracted.  But then we have to consider if the Black Goo is a kind of Radical AI, does this mean it can be Programed and Modified to effect Genomes in Different ways and we have to ask what can be Created from this if it is Programed a Certain way?

My theory on the Black Goo is Long and is directly connected to Jon Spaights Nano-Scarabs, which is the Base Substance is a Mutagen that breaks down DNA and reforms it into a NEW Mutagen that contains the DNA of the Organism it broke down, and ONCE this New Mutagen infects other Organic Life it IMPRINTS the DNA of the Organism it was created From... a Hybridation Tool if you like, so Engineer + Sacrificial Goo = Engineer Mutagen which when infects Primate it injects Engineer DNA thus making a Primate/Engineer Hybrid AKA Humans Ancestors.   So by this Token the Black Goo is sourced in Prometheus from the Sacrifice of a Xenomorph Related Organism, which is more evident with Jon Spaights Alien Engineers Fifield.

My point in Context to your Question is IF David can extract/program from the Black Goo a Base Chemical that can be used to Extract/Store Engineer DNA then if David passes this onto Dr Shaws Egg Cells she could in THEORY give birth to a Humanoid Fetus.

A Alternative is Engineer Sperm, as we see there could well have been Surviving Engineers, who must have become Subdued by David somehow or too weak to put up a Fight and you can be sure David had Experimented on and Tortured Engineers as HINTED by Hattan and Hallet (Creatures Concept Artist) so this could be another Avenue to maybe be used with a bit of Tinkering to perhaps allow Dr Shaw to give Birth to a more Traditional Fetus.

Your Final Paragraph is a Big Question the ADVENT David claims that all he needs to PERFECT now is his Queen.  And i just cant see Ridley Scott go the route of FACE HUGGER + DANIELS = Xenomorph Queen.  It is a puzzle with the TWO Embryos he brought to the Ship, but then he could have More and he could have Black Goo... as well we never saw them leave LV-223 with all that Human Equipment at the End of Prometheus.

Ridley Scott has said the movie would Focus more on AI and David rather than the Xenomorph and he asked "what kind of a World would he Create" if its simply a Use Colonist on the Covenant to make Hundreds/Thousands of Eggs, or wait until they get to Origae-6 and do the same or make Xenomorph Queens...  then this would actually be quite a Xenomorphy movie.

So yes i think David will establish the Colony and Charade as Walter, unknown to the Colonist, but its what becomes of Daniels and Tennessee, She knows how he is and IF she goes missing it wont take Tennessee long to put 2+2 together.   I think he will get rid of Tennessee but he will USE Daniels for some Experiments, its does he use the Ships Medical Lab and Equipment to better set up a Place to Extract Daniels Egg Cells to Experiment on... or does he EVOLVE her but either way i think he would have her Incapacitated to a Degree.

I think Davids EGO and how he likes to keep things in Memory (Dr Shaws Corpse and the Grave) i think he will thus keep Daniels Alive or if she dies he will keep her Body.   And as with Alien Covenant, with Daniels Discovering his Secrets and likely Dr Shaw uncovering what he was getting up to at some point too..   I think someone will DISCOVER Daniels Hidden Away and THEN the Colonist Discover what Walter has been up to and then Discover who DAVID is and then the $"£%£^ Hits the Fan!  If only a Handful Discover his Secrets he would have to TRY and prevent them from telling the others and i think THIS is when he will Unleash his Xenomorphs.

"I must add A C has nothing to do with what I am attempting."

Indeed if we Ignore Alien Covenant, then it leaves so much room for endless possibilities, if we however tried to Figure Out a Story that Links A (Prometheus) to Z (Alien Covenant)  then while many interesting things could have happened, but you would eventually just be joining the DOTS to what is left of Planet 4, Engineers and Dr Shaw by the time the Covenant Ship arrives... But this is the same Hurdle they Face with Directly connecting the Prequels to the Space Jockey Event... a lot of Alien Fans would want to see THOSE DOTS but i think Ridley Scott has a different Vision as far as FILLER Material and opening up more than just a A-Z Covenant to Space Jockey Tale.

I think Ridley Scott has a lot of ideas and Vision that goes beyond the limited Popcorn Shoot-Em-Up Flick Genre.   Sadly and i think as with some of you ideas Michelle and Mine...  I am not sure a Movie can Really Do them Justice because of how Engaging and Deep they could be, which may be IDEAL for a Novel that people can really Sink into..

I think some of these ideas would be GREAT to see on Screen, but in the Market of making $$$ i do FEAR a lot of Great Ideas and indeed Ridley Scotts vision may have to give way to Guns, Marines and Xenomorphs.

I for ONE would really like to see Paglen and Green's Drafts

BigDave,

extending our world phenomena physics to that fantasy world that is alien world is a bit ambiguous. Therefore, investing time into figuring out precise machinations of the genetic makup of the beast and how it all interacts with human ATGC of human DNA in that fantasy world is a bit fruitless. However, while focusing on specific details doesn't make sense, the big picture should still make sense - otherwise the writers and film-makers have done us dirty. I hope we are not dragged into this story where nothing makes sense.

I wanted to clear up a few things, having watched P and AC. I can't quite work out why the engineers are so hostile towards humans. Why? I wonder if the following ramble makes even tiny bit of sense:

There is this algebra in the movies and it goes as follows:

mutagen + human DNA => something looking like a xenomorph,

a hybrid specie, not a xeno, but nevertheless having characteristics of the beast.

Also, we see from the "seeding" sequence:

mutagen + engineer => humans

this is peculiar, because from the movie we know that engineers have basically identical DNA to humans. So, the mutagen that the seeding engineer drinks must be somewhat different to the one that David and prometheus team found in the chamber with the head, otherwise, you would think he would go and morph into a hybrid from an engineer and xeno progenitor.

We also know that this mutagen was refined to make it a weapon. In all cases we are constantly shown that engineers make use of the mutagen for one purpose or another. There is question then, which came first engineers or the mutagen. And in any case, note, that one is finely tuned to work with another. Say engineers have created the mutagen on their own. In this case, because the way it reacts with their own markup, it must be that engineers have been conducting lab experiments on their own flesh, because in the final stage they got this mutagen which works hand in hand with their own markup. Now, one can imagine that they could have found out numerous ways the different versions of mutagen mutated them into different species : humanoids, progenitors of xenos, all sorts of trilobites perhaps.

It is unlikely these engineers have abilities to create planets from nothing. If anything, they inhabit the world, created by who knows what. And if they are very close to humans and mortal, and the rules of science are not sacred to anyone, they had to discover this mutagen more or less the same what we would : trial and error. It is possible that they discovered a type of the mutagen that makes these xeno like beasts. They certainly must have learned that this beast is very deadly - probably deadlier than themselves. Otherwise, if engineers could handle xeno progenitors with bare hands, say like humans can handle their pets(cats/dogs, etc), why did they have none on their planet? Why isolate it on a barren planet and run from it like from plague? Because it is dangerous to them, they can't handle it, that is why. So in summary, they created a beast that is much deadlier than them. This mutagen is probably the ultimate form of their collective creativity. Then comes Weyland, who created a beautiful AI(who is creative, intelligent and all of those superlatives), which will live forever...and Weyland, who is almost identical in markup to the engineers says that humanity sucks(therefore engineers too!) - they die. The engineer has to admit that these human children of his made unheard progress, even compared to themselves. Damn, they bettered their creators, in some ways: the best thing engineers came up with is a beast, no doubt, very deadly, but look at humans....And the next thing this artificial son of humans does is he takes the mutagen and betters it even further. Quite promethean, right? This must be somewhat insulting/humiliating to these creators, huh?

Is this the motivation of the engineer to go and wipe this bloody Earth and these cocky humans? If it is, then these engineers underestimated human ingenuity and the ability of humans to benefit from science(trial by error) and if so who is to say that they are better than humans. Who are they then to go and destroy humans? Simply because they can? One way or the other, I am glad David showed them up a bit. A bit of humility didn't ever hurt anyone. Does this even make remote sense?

@BioDegradable

You are correct the way to "make sense" of what we have is to look at the overall picture and then say only "this" makes sense. You have to be careful of taking note of Ridley because he changes his mind and radically. 

1) The acolyte is seeding a planet benignly with a catalyser which puts all that he is and represents into the targeted planets development. He is seeding his characteristics which are humanoid. It has nothing to do with xenomorphs otherwise in this sub created world everywhere would be inhabited by xenomorphs they are not.

2) The Engineers on the planetoid have fallen from the high ideals of the opening sequence, it represents Paradise Lost. That was the idea behind the planetoid and that fall lead them to consider redacting mankind in a low ideals sub creative endeavour They have all bar one suffered tumorous explosions resulting in horrific death. We see an example of that when they artificially stimulate the head of an Engineer.But that provides Doctor Elizabeth Shaw with one of her answers they created us and she then asks the question so who created them we do not as yet know.  

3) By sacrifice they have sub created creatures which are immortalised in the fresco and the mural. The two creatures in the mural echo the Xenomorph of A L I E N.

4) The Urn which David recovers contains the mutagen. The mutagen has a consistent effect with the worms, Sean Fifield and Charlie Holloway. They mutate they do not die it can not possibly be the same as the life giving catalyser otherwise the results of coming into contact with it would be entirely different.

5) The entire sequence of the embryo in the med pod to huge trilobite to impregnates an Engineer to produces a Deacon was a riff to end the film with, so say the makers of the film. It was done for story and is not part of the overall arc. Damon compared it to the Stones playing "Sympathy for the Devil" its an encore you have to do. The trilobite is a one off event to subdue the Engineer as opposed to the Facehuggers in the mural (which maybe prophetic) and the Bio Mechanical Facehuggers in the Ovoids in the lone Juggernaut.

The matters we certainly did not know about after Prometheus and before A C was why was this Engineer taking a different cargo some place else within a couple of hundred years of the outbreak of the plague. (Ridley Scotts answer when asked in 2012.) 

Where are the cry pods and where is the consul would also require an explanation if you revisit the lone Juggernaut in the context of making sense of Ridleys 2012 answer. Note the answer in 2017 was subsequent films will reveal whom this unique character "The Space Jockey" is so that makes the likely hood of it being an Engineer low and a unique character whom is important to all the prequels high. Answers not required on a post card.       

Michelle Johnston And judging by the fact that there is only one important character this not a postcard but a 747.

I am finding it a bit silly to actually try to predict how the story will unfold in future, should it even have a continuation. I mean, I am not that interested who ends up as the big guy and how it all ties to that.

I have my plate full, even retrospectively trying to make sense of what we were shown in the two movies - it is hard and therefore exciting.

Michelle,

the planetoid you talk about is it the barren planet Prometheus crew lands on in the Prometheus, right? How is it that those guys, those engineers, have exactly "fallen"?

Are you saying that those fellows fallen from grace, by conducting experiments with the mutagen, which the "unfallen" forebearers used only as a seeding catalyzer? Well, in this case, where did the mutagen used for seeding come from in the first place? Did it exist before them and they stumbled upon it? In this case, they certainly share some common ancestry - because it can't be a coincidence then that this mutagen works so intimately and finely with their genetics. They are relatives then...

 Instead, you see, I am of the opinion here that engineers have probably created many versions of the mutagen. One for seeding. The other is obviously weapon grade aggressive type. And, of course, there is this alien creating stuff. They were all doing this stuff on the barren, remote planet. This is their laboratory sandbox. This is the place where they created the magic black goo that they use to seed life in universe. And in their stupidity they apparently left the symbol on Earth to humans(that Shaw with Holloway discovered) as if to say to humans: "hey, pst...that is the place where it all started for you little folks. That is the place where we created the juice, which we used to seed you." If that is what they did, they certainly paid the price :) and then some, at the hands of David of course. Now, what is interesting is that these engineers...where the hell do they come from themselves? Who created them? I guess we are not given the answer yet and probably will not. However, it is probably safe to assume, that if the entity who created them existed in the universe, the engineers would eventually find it. Subsequently, I am compelled to believe that these engineers are in fact just a result of evolution and of course some random event that allowed them to appear in the first place...you can furnish the bootstrapping ${big_bang} theory of your liking here.

I am talking my mind here and making a lot of assumptions. Please point out if I am babbling inane and trivial(and no doubt wrong) stuff that has already been established and there is no need for me "to talk out of my rear" any more.

Thanks guys

Also, I think engineers would NOT use alien producing mutagen, or indeed even unleash the beast on the humanoid populations that needs to be wiped clean - see, if they did so, the alien would leave the planet clean of "meat" but will eventually adapt to the scarcity of the meat and produce spores that we were shown in the AC so that when and if there is sign of new meat appearing (even engineers) that thing will again spring into action. You see, once you unleash the beast - it will conquer the planet and you can't do anything with that planet unless you probably burn it down to the ground, which is probably dangerous and counter-productive. To wipe clean they would use the weapon grade mutagen instead. That worked beautifully in the AC.

@BioDegradable

The catalyser at the beginning of Prometheus is offered to the acolyte by the occupants of the tear drop ship.

The Elder Engineer offers the catalyser to the intoning f the following promise.  

Let your body become the dirt, your blood become the waters and may your soul become the way back to us.

Note the site will not let me input the original Indo European language used by the Engineers.

The Engineers of LV223 in the movie Prometheus were according to Pietro Scalia the editor Paradise Lost they stole the catalyser from the Gods in a Promethean swipe and then began adjusting it. David discovers in Alien Covenant the building block of the pathogen (its not a pathogen its a mutagen) is artificial intelligence that has fantastic circumlocutory potential.

Ridley Scott said in the commentary to the movie Prometheus that something Ebola like got out and killed all the Engineers. it could look like chest bursting and that may have been the design spec for some of the cry tubes but in terms of Prometheus not Jon Spaihts Alien Engineers there is no evidence that the out break specifically involved chest bursting. 

So for me there are two elements. 

1) The benign catalyser which kickstarts humanoid life all over the galaxy. 

2) Chemical A0-3959X.91 aka the Black Goo which produces supra creational outcomes through non consensual behaviour with out a moral compass, any sense of remorse or conscience  of which the apotheosis is arguably the endoparasitoid extraterrestrial XX121.

Thank you Michelle Johnston, I didn't bother to search and source the info on the movie - I didn't do my hw. The phrase "non-consensual" made me chuckle a bit - yeah, there is nothing consensual about that damn thing or the extraterrestrial XX121.

What is your view on the origin of this fantastic goo though? Did they make it? See, engineers have managed to create that, I would think David would have more respect for them. But he doesn't. It was in Prometheus where he picked up the slime from the wall where it thinned out between his fingers reflecting and diffracting the incident light from David's light source. "impressive" he said. However, this is mute and minor since he clearly dispensed humanity, which created him and music he liked ( Wagner, good choice ). 

This question is impossible to answer definitively, but it is unlikely that the goo and engineers are not related at all. Either engineers created that stuff or it predates them but they still have some common progeny.

@Michelle Johnston

Can't wait to read your novel! Hopefully you'll publish/post it here?

I'd bring back David as the hero of the story...a redemption angle.

Or start Alien:Awakening with Space Marines reviving the crew of the Covenant and David isn't present.

"Maam, we've done a thorough search of this vessel...he's not aboard.."

Later they find his 'corpse' wedged in a cooling duct.

I imagine if Peter Weyland got his wish - immortality, he would have behaved just like David. So in a sense, David is Weyland himself. One way or the other, he is his son/heir or even Wayland himself personified.

On reflection, it is interesting that humans are doing precisely the same thing that engineers were doing : colonizing planets good for life. Sooner or later, they were bound to meet these engineers anyway. And engineers probably expected that - they must have some weapons for this case, and if their weapon is that aggressive reagent that David gave themselves, it must be then that they created it as well.

One way or the other this substance is essential in the story. Of course they might have something else, but they seemed to rely on that exclusively.

If those acolytes are the conservative fraction amongst the species, and those on the "paradise lost" planet are the decadent, radical and non-traditional "liberal" ones, then what is the plan of the former fraction(tear drop fellows) when they face their (perhaps) hostile children armed to the teeth coming for them? Wave a white flag? What the hell are they doing anyway?

“Sir, I’ve been going over the ship logs….they show the hypersleep chambers have routinely been opened and resealed. The captains only last month”

“..The hell?!....Send a squad to find the captain and bring her here…”

 ….

Captain Daniels shot both marines in the head.

Tennessee  “What the hell are you doing!?”

Daniels “ They’re not marines”

Tennessee “Sure could have fooled me!”

Daniels “We need their ship..”