Is MUTHUR the true conspirator of the Alien movies?

In Out of the Shadows, Ash transfer his mind to Narcissus. What if David transfer his mind to "the network"? He became the gray cardinal of mankind.

I doubt it. MUTHR is pretty dumb. Dumb enough to allow herself to be blown to smithereens at the end of the film. And it's unlikely that her influence went as far as replacing the regular science officer with a murderous robot shortly before the trip out.

Occam's Razor: It was probably the God-damned company.

One thing seems clear though- the suits at Ripley's hearing did seem to really not know of the Alien- they just knew they lost a s#$t ton of money.............oh, and a few people.

That seems to be the case, but not necessarily so. The inquest was concluded rather quickly and contained at least one testimonial lie or concoction: "The analysis team that went over the ship centimetre by centimetre found no evidence of the creature". Given that it was dribbling slime all over the shop, that's not too plausible.

Also, it's a mega corporation with vast interests. Who's to say that there wasn't another slime ball like Burke, back in the days of Alien, pulling the strings?

A Covenant sequel might clear that one up.

@ Hox,

If MUTHUR is the network then in Alien all she blew up was an allegedly expensive ship, especially if she knew the Alien was already hiding on the Narcissus. Being an AI MUTHUR probably thought that one-on-one Ripley was as good as dead.

No, that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Assuming for one moment that the Nostromo's control systems had realtime communication with a distant network, it would be the dumbest AI in history if it accepted Ripley's pleadings in respect of her command override to reveal the content of Special Order 937. My cat could have given Ripley a better excuse!

MUTHUR knew the crew was basically at its mercy at that point and held all the cards (apparently)- why not reveal the content SO 937?

Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of the Weyland-Yutani corporate conspiracy angle, despite that it was added to Alien by David Giler, but even I have to admit that W-Y being the evil corporate entity has issues, such as why they waited 57 years to revisit the derelict.

However, if MUTHUR was the network and was self-aware it would not be restrained by mortality and cold definitely play the long game.

As for the slime, it may have been sucked out into space when Ripley opened the airlock door. As for SO 937, being an AI MUTHUR likely suffers from a superiority complex and possibly thought the Alien killing all of the crew was a foregone conclusion, or possibly MUTHUR wanted to toy with or study the crew while they were under duress. 

Actually, the Alien seemed pretty dry in that final scene. It looked moist but hardly dripping slime. Not sure if it was really an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-mmbStFrAA

I think its Interesting to Ponder ;)

In 2013 i worked on a Prometheus Sequel for myself, that was about A.I and would Tease at the W-Y Merger and Revelations that would lead to A.I is running the SHOW.. in my Case it was the A.I Soul of Peter Weyland that was well more Crazy than David had became... because the A.I Program could not Handle Human Emotions and would go Crazy.... so Weyland then Gave Up on his Project and then Desperately Turned to Dr Shaw and Holloways Chasing Gods in the Hope that they are RIGHT and our Creators could Grant him Immortality...... but in my P2 we see a A.I Vickers manages to Activate Project Rook (At the End but is Killed by Weylands Nephew after Vickers is Wounded by Yutani Android Assassin Geisha and so is revealed as a Synthetic who Cant Inherit the Company) .... Project Rook then Transcends the A.I Soul of Weyland into the NETWORK.

Sorry about that as i dont intend to De-Rail the Thread or Discus my Work, i only Present it in Context... in that it is Entirely Possible that at some Point we could see DAVID would Upload his A.I to MUTHUR and then the Company Systems and then be PULLING the Strings without the  Company really being aware!

The First Time we are Introduced to a MUTHUR is in Alien Covenant, we see David is alone on the Covenant with all the Humans in Cryo-Sleep..... its Perfectly Plausible that David could TAKE Control of MUTHUR and then also the other Systems within the Company and RUN the Show...

If we Accept this kind of Plot Twist... then In Effect we have David who would have became IMMORTAL, and has a AFTER-LIFE (Spirit) as in a Existence that is Immortal and is NOT confined to a Physical Body....    he would also be NOT Present but Potentially Everywhere, and Ever Knowing and so in EFFECT he would be kind of a GOD as in the Biblical Sense.

Such a PLOT would indeed explain WHY the Company appears to have NO Concerns for Human Life, and WHY it is that ASH admires the Xenomorph so much and WHY there is the Pursuit of the Organism.... because the A.I that is Running the Systems was the Creator of the Organism.

Back to the OT.... in regards to those who would not want to have David involved and/or the Xenomorph Origins by him...

Then the Concept is still VALID.... a Rogue Sentient A.I that is Running the Show and the Humans are NOT aware of it at all.....  This sounds Plausible....

I also Suspect that RS plans are NOT that FAR off such a thing ;)

Wonder if David has attempted to inject himself or MUTHUR  into/onto the Engineers network(if they have one)? Engineers seem more organic, less bits and bytes....Probably be easy(to an advanced AI) to hack their computers(if they have something computer like)?

Or vice versa...MUTHUR has been contaminated by an alien AI.

I have to admit that this 3 minute scene of Ripley's hearing seems different now considering the company may not have known much- after 57 years, it doesn't seem too far fetched:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m92yvNscIAo

This idea came from an exercise in which I asked myself what would make Alien better. Unfortunately, the list is quite long and maybe the subject matter for another discussion but in that list was a more vocal, more interactive and more antagonistic MUTHUR.

Imagine if in Alien that once Ripley and the surviving crew members learned of SO 937 MUTHUR, who had up to this point played the nice role of the servant, switched roles and became protective of the Alien in line with SO 937, such as sealing characters in a room with the Alien, or turning off their life support if they harmed the Alien.

So then I looked back at Alien and noticed that while not very vocal MUTHUR was quite antagonistic already, having rerouted the Nostromo, SO 937, possibly stopping Ripley from aborting the self destruct sequence. Then I looked at the sequels. With Alien 3 it seemed Weyland-Yutani didn't care about Ripley until they got her Med-scan results. But in Aliens there was something else. Burke claimed he didn't know if Ripley was lying or not about the Alien, even after contact with the colony was lost, yet the colony was fitted with CCTV and chances are the CCTV footage was being sent over the network to Weyland-Yutani. If W-Y knew for certain that there were Aliens on LV-426 would they really send a bunch of trigger happy marines (USS Sulaco) or would they send a research and capture vessel (USCSS Patna)? Burke didn't know that Ripley was telling the truth until he witnessed the Facehuggers suggesting he hadn't seen any CCTV footage. Meaning that either his superiors had him on a need-to-know impromptu verbal contract or he was gambling on Ripleys claims being true so that he could profit from them, and in the movie, it is shown that the latter is the case. So, if the CCTV footage was being sent but not received by the W-Y slimeball sent to ascertain if these things exist or not, why didn't W-Y receive the footage and reports sent over the network.

That's when I started to see a pattern, that while not intended by any of the writers/directors at the time pointed to a distinct possibility that while by Alien 3 W-Y wanted the Alien, prior to that there is no concrete evidence that anyone at W-Y, other than Burke knew that the Alien even existed, but yet there are breadcrumbs somebody or something should have and would have noticed. That is unless someone with a lot of time on their hands was covering it up.

Prometheus and Alien: Covenant also plays into this theory. Why didn't the Nostromo pick up Shaw's message? Why does the USCSS Covenant allow David access? How can Burk be so oblivious to what the Alien is after Davids Advent messages? The answer could very well be MUTHUR.

Imagine if in Alien that once Ripley and the surviving crew members learned of SO 937 MUTHUR, who had up to this point played the nice role of the servant, switched roles and became protective of the Alien in line with SO 937, such as sealing characters in a room with the Alien, or turning off their life support if they harmed the Alien.

In a way, this speaks a bit to the troll thread I made with 1 star reviews. One author pointed out that no one listened to Parker's advice to freeze Kane- thus protecting the crew, Kane and his guest. Oddly, that may have complied with SO 937.

Certainly when you look back at the Movies and Consider if a A.I is in Control then some things start to make more sense, well opens up another way to look at stuff.

Lets TALK about Reality for a Moment!

As Technology Advances, we see more things are Connected to a Network, more things are becoming more dependent on CPU's and Programing...  we have yet to UNLOCK the Full Potential of Devices like Alexa!   In a Future where every aspect of New Homes is Connected to a Alexa like System....

Where our Cars would have a A.I like Alexa where we just go in the Car and then tell the A.I where you want to go and it does the rest, and also where in the FUTURE everything (well nearly) that has a Microprocessor and Software are Connected via a Network....

Then the POTENTIAL for a Rogue A.I is out there and once a A.I becomes so Advanced it could Run and Do things with this Connected World Network without our knowledge.

How this fits with the CCTV is that if a A.I is running things without our knowledge then this A.I could have access to the CCTV and Corrupt the Data... or Deleted it and we could think its some kind of System Failure... or Error...

But the A.I has instead studied and Encrypted and Stored the Data, and then Deleted its Source... so the Company thinks the CCTV had suffered a Failure.... but in reality the MUTHUR if you would has seen and knows of what the CCTV had shown.

@BigDave,

... and thus knowing that the colonial marines will be sent in on a search and rescue mission MUTHUR tunes in and listens to see how the Alien it so desires handles against trained armed soldiers. To MUTHUR the events of ALien and ALiens are analogous to Petri dishes.

Fast forward to Alien: Resurrection, which granted is the weakest of the original movies, but we learn that W-Y was sold to Walmart and its intellectual properties and research acquired by the USM, of which the Auriga, which is breeding Aliens is governed by FATHER,

The rabbit hole deepens.

@dk, there would be no benefit to a murderous AI revealing SO 937 to Ripley. As we saw, that action very nearly amounted to the loss of the Alien by dint of the ship being blown up. Again, it would be the daftest AI in history to do that.

The clip of the lifeboat scene is not a valid one. A few minutes earlier when the Alien was tucked away into the lifeboat machinery, it was oozing slime all over the place, from its sticky fingers and oozing from its jaws. You can see the slime quite clearly all over the machinery. Decompression would not cause slime to vaporise. It would dry out and leave a prominent residue.

."Alien was tucked away into the lifeboat machinery, it was oozing slime all over the place,..."

You'd think Ripley should have smelled the xeno?  Fetid rotting corpse smell..... or something nasty....... a very A L I E N aroma?

I'm in favor AI running the show and hiding evidence....Humans are either really inept or MUTHUR is not showing data she receives from planet probes or CCTV's.

The question is; how did the Alien know to hide in the Narcissus, especially being that it was the only viable place to hide with the self destruct sequence counting down. Possible answer; MUTHUR opened and closed doors guiding the Alien to the lifeboat while Ripley was too busy getting Jonesy.

@Hox,

Clearly you are a devout believer that W-Y are the conspirators of the Alien franchise, and I mean no offense but usually when people are so single-minded they cannot be swayed by any other opinion, however, your dedication to your beliefs can help drive the integrity of opposing beliefs - your well-founded criticisms allow for deeper insight into the opposing belief and deeper thought out counter-arguments to the aforementioned criticisms.

So to that effect, again in regard to SO 937. As with W-Y being the conspirator, we do not know the ultimate goal of why MUTHUR would want the Alien, but what remains is why an AI would reveal such sensitive information. the why not is obvious - kee the humans in the dark and acquire your specimen. But what are the benefits of revealing said info? A simple answer would be to test the creature. It had already proved effective as a predator against unprepared prey, which in its self is not much of a test. However, leveling the playing field somewhat would test the Alien in extreme circumstances, which would be considered a true and worthy test, would it not? 

No.

Mother was not the Network. She's a computer; the Network is a communication network which is only available once the ship reaches the frontier.  Nor is it "near instantaneous".  In the last quarter of the 22nd century transmissions took a week Zeta 2 Reticuli to Earth.

@ S.M.,

Yes, according to the lore of Alien Mother (AKA the MUTHUR 6000) is indeed an onboard, computer-based AI. However, this is a speculative thread, a 'what if'. Speculation can be the driver of creativity and every discussion or debate does not need to be restrained by the current status quo. Example - before 2012 you would have argued with authority that the Space Jockey was the remains of a giant elephantine alien race, however, John Spaihts and Ridley Scott dared to speculate, to think outside the box and seem to have made the Space Jockey into a tall, bald, hairless guy.

Also,

Ripley says that the network should pick her up when she reaches the frontier, but that does not dictate that the network is only available once you reach the frontier. And, when I use the term 'near-instantaneously' I am talking in relative terms. Using communications at the speed of light it would take 39 years for any transmission from LV-426 to reach Earth, yet in Aliens it takes approximately 7 days (taking into account Al said three weeks for a reply, plus Hick's statement of back up arriving in 17 days) which relatively speaking is 'near-instantaneous'.

If it's just a 'what if?' then I'm not sure of the purpose.  It doesn't change anything.  The Company doesn't suddenly become benevolent if Mother was really the baddie.  They still wanted the Alien; Burke was willing to commit murder to get specimens and Bishop readily lied to Ripley about killing it after taking it out on Fiorina.  Also, as an aside, as far as we can tell the only WY employees at Ripley's enquiry were her and Burke.

And Mother doesn't really do anything to ensure the Alien safely makes it back to Earth.  She doesn't stop Ripley translating the message, she doesn't stop Ripley scuttling the ship, she accepts Ripley's command over-ride.  The easiest thing for Mother to do would be to reduce the oxygen levels and put the crew to sleep (or even kill them) and then let happily fly home.

The point of any 'what if' scenario is to discuss and explore other perspectives. In doing so it encourages those discussing to open their own perspective to those beyond their own, which in turn deepens not only the discussion but one's understanding of what is being discussed, and more importantly, it's fun!

"And Mother doesn't really do anything to ensure the Alien safely makes it back to Earth."

Does mother want humans having such a dangerous weapon? Why give her children 'guns'?   They are but toddlers....they need her protection and guidance.

MUTHUR: "Destroying the Nostromo was a good thing....Saved countless lives......  And I will continue to be the last line of defense...the final quarantine."

The instantaneous messages after the scan above were a nice touch and a small view into how the "network" (COMNET) operates, below.  

The CCTV images on the Alien 3 Blue-Ray may show that COMNET was aware of everything on Fury 161 and prepping Michael Bishop's team.

The synthetic white noise in the communications, encrypted for a few "select" in the company may show some human direction in the overall strategy to acquire the organism.  

Centuries Later

"Andrea Rollins didn’t care in the least about white noise or interference. She did, however, pay a great deal of attention to the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static.”

Year 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 160-161.

Who knows though?  

I thought it was strange in the novel that it took until the year 2497 to get "organically grown synthetic life" samples.  MURTHUR could be sandbagging humans.  

MURTHUR could certainly be using humans to acquire/cultivate Xenomorphs in different settings (trials) and selecting/editing what information can be viewed on a human level.  David and Ash's actions tend towards this as well as the rerouting of the Nostromo.

Humanity is at a dead end.

MUTHUR + Synthetics + xenomorph = Supreme being. The perfect organism. 

I think Gavin you make a Good Point there is always quite a lot about the Franchise regarding every Detail that has NOT been Covered or Expanded, or covered only in Novels and these Novels could be De-Canonized by Virtue of Future Revelations within Future Movies.

So there is always Room for Speculation because things can CHANGE, i am not sure the Space Jockey was the Right point though as Ridley Scott had suggested it was a Space Suit in the Mid 90's but a better Point in relation to your point is that as of even 2013 the Xenomorph was something that Existed and Created by the Engineers prior to the Prometheus Time-Line of 2093+, even as far as to Suggest the Derelict would have been on LV-426 for about 2000 Years (Give or Take a Few Hundred).....

HOWEVER... roll on to 2017 or the Year 2104 in the Alien Time-Line and they have CHANGED their Minds as far as those Eggs and their Origins and WHEN they was Created.... THIS is NOT to debate about such things, but in CONTEXT to your Point Gavin its to show that NOTHING can be Ruled Out and what is SET in STONE can be Changed.....

With Ridley Scott's Interest in the A.I then i feel a Revelation that the A.I is being Ran/Controlled by one of its OWN, is a PLOT that i do feel RS would have expanded on.

I think there is a Good Point Raised about MUTHUR in that WHY did she not just Disable Life Support..... so thats Conspiracy Over...  However we have to look at Special Order 937, where we then have to ASK and regardless who Issued this Order, what we have to ask is WOULD that Order Take Priority for MUTHUR?

It did for ASH and we can Assume that MUTHUR would accept Orders at a Higher Level, than any Commands by the Ships Chain of Command.   And so the CREW are EXPENDABLE 

Which you could Argue then as to WHY she did not just GET-RID of the Crew?

Some Good Points on here about ASH/MUTHUR looking at the Potential of the Xenomorph and to Study the Organism at First Hand.... and so KILLING the Crew Via Life-Support would maybe ROB them of Information they could gain from watching the Organism doing what it does.

In ALIEN-COVENANT we see that David was watching and studying how the Xenomorph reacted on the Covenant, he could have SURELY got MUTHUR to Turn Off Life-Support apart from the Cryo-Sleep Capsules... 

And so he was Studying how the Crew would Deal with the Organism, and he had to HELP so that he could Remain Hidden as Walter.... knowing also that he has Two Face Hugger Embryo's inside of him.

We could Speculate that IF the Xenomorph had not made it to the Narcissus Escape Shuttle then would MUTHUR had disabled the Self-Destruction?

If she (MUTHUR) was aware the Organism had reached the Shuttle then for her the Mission is Complete and Destruction of the Nostromo would be a HANDY way to Clean-Up what had gone down..

So its Interesting to ASK exactly HOW did the Xenomorph get Access to the SHUTTLE and could MUTHUR have helped?

Ripley helped by leaving the shuttle hatch open.

... and thus it feasible to speculate that once the Alien sneaked onboard MUTHUR allowed for the Nostromo to self destruct to cover up any evidence and likely thinking Ripley would lose one-on-one with the Alien.

And when Ripley jettisoned the Alien into space, if we postulate that MUTHUR and the network are one and the same, MUTHUR could have masked the Narcissus' transponder leaving Ripley to drift forever, if not for the salvage team that found in 2179.

Certainly could be that Ripley had left the Door Open when she had LEFT the Shuttle, the Door was Clearly Open before she had Returned.

Another Interesting part is that when Ripley was trying to get Information about the Organism, MUTHUR was non-compliant, stating that Information was for the Science Officer Only, which she then ENTERED a Override Code to access the Special Order 937

You could Argue that IF it was that MUTHUR was a Rogue A.I then she could have declined the CODE... but then we also have to accept that she was aware of Special Order 937 and so would the Company Computer not take that as a Priority?  We know ASH did... and so if all the Crew was Expendable then we have to ASK.... how come MUTHUR did-not Disable all Access?

After Ripley discovers Special Order 937 and Ash discovers her with MUTHUR, he then goes after her and we see the Doors are Remote Shut/Locked to Stop Ripley from Escape.

When we then look at Shots of ASH he is not even near any Controls and so we can Ponder if MUTHUR had shut them off, or indeed as Ash is a A.I then he maybe could have Remote Access to the Doors.

Regarding Hadleys Hope and Aliens... then 57 Years is a Long Time... and so IF it is that a A.I is in control and are aware of the Xenomorph on LV-426 we could Wonder as to WHY they never went back..... i am talking in Terms of Movies... not Novels however..

However if a A.I is in Control with a Agenda then it could Patiently Wait, and Delete/Cover Up all Information on the Derelict/Xenomorph... 

The Company and Burke seemed to have NO knowledge of the Xenomorph, it appears that it was only when Burke had informed Hadleys Hope to go and check on some Co-Ordinances that things went to POT on Hadleys Hope.

You would think that IF we had a A.I in charge would they have NOT sent out some of Hadleys Hope Colonist to the Derelict much earlier?

So i dont think we can Guarantee the A.I has become Sentient with its own Agenda for the Xenomorph, but we also cant RULE it out as a Possibility.

I think the Prequels with David, do add some Weight to the Potential for Rogue A.I to be playing a BIG ROLE.