MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN!

"defending this loop of senseless nonsense for years…..I digress though we need to save this franchise from all these bad things….I don’t see how yet or if it is even possible."

Thats the Problem we are NOW in the Direction has Displeased a LOT of Fans but i dont think you can come up with any Prequel Conclusion that is going to WORK.  Not for the Majority.

The ADVANTAGE that Prometheus had and also by attempting to STEER AWAY from Alien is you dont STEP on the TOES of the Original as far as those Eggs and the Xenomorph, so you could GO and do other stuff without WORRYING about how it Conflicts with the Alien Franchise.

The PROBLEM with a Direct Prequel Path like Alien Covenant is that as you are LEADING towards ALIEN as far as to ANSWER those Questions then you do RE-WRITE the History a bit, and you have to be CAREFUL because what you do/show will become Canon Answers to what was Mystery before.... 

When these Answers are then something that is NOT going to SIT well with Most of the Fans.. (David Creator Arc) and how it seems the Eggs are just 2nd Fiddle... then this is something that has DILUTED the Xenomorph to Many more than seeing it COOKED by a Alien 5, Alien 6 etc.

So as you said BlackAnt "I don’t see how yet or if it is even possible."

I could not agree more ;)

I think what MADE the Franchise Great was the UNKNOWN and the more Movies about the Xenomorph then the more it becomes KNOWN and Familiar and Hunted Down by Predators at Local Swimming Pools.

This leaves the GREAT UNKNOWN as the Eggs and Origins and the Space Jockey and WHO they are...

Once you go to ANSWER those then it will NO LONGER be a Unknown... and depending on HOW you handle this you could either get something EPIC... or something that Tarnishes the Franchise..

Unfortunately i think we are on the Road to the Latter.

If they had Decided to NOT give us a Direct Prequel and to STEER AWAY from  the Xenomorph and ALIEN then Prometheus had opened up a Galaxy of Unknowns... with MANY things to Explore....

With Alien Covenant the Franchise was PUT back into a BOX, where its simply about a Robot who goes on to Create One of the MOST ICONIC pieces of Sci-Fi History.

This is NOT to be Anti-David.... i think his ARC could have Continued away from LV-426 and those Eggs.

Regarding SuperAlien ;)

LOL i do think Joking Aside though this is HOW we can see the Xenomorph eventually Exploited in Games and Comics... (SuperHero Cross-Overs)

IF this then becomes what the Theatrical Future is, then the ALIEN Franchise that ALIEN began a Sci-Fi Horror about the Unknown... and what Prometheus could have laid down as a Foundation of Expansion... would just become a JOKE!

Where The Predator would appear to be a Sensible and Solid Sequel in Comparison ;)

The ALIEN Franchise should NOT be turned into Guardians of the Galaxy meets Starship Troopers ;)

I dont have too much HOPE for the Future... I would expect more Damage to be done than the NEW Star Wars Trilogy did to Star Wars (Especially the Last Jedi)

 SuperAlien I kind of agree and was saying that in a different way- it's going to move forward under Marvel/Disney. Fans can always bow out- I would give it a shot expecting a popcorn movie. I can always quit if I don't like it.

BigDave I would rather keep things a mystery as well and can easily pretend the prequels never even happened- and why not- Bloomkamp wanted to pretend half the quadrilogy never really happened.

Even if RS took over and went with anther movie, it would still be divisive with fans. With that in mind, may as well see what someone else can do with it. Seems a lot minds are already made up.

BD

I agree that there are things in the prequels that could be expanded on other than the monsters and the eggs. Giving the alien franchise new things is something that the prequels have done right especially the Engineers.

The themes are interesting, artificial intelligence and creation but it is not good when the themes are given bigger space than the characters and the story. You got to make them all work in the context of the movie. Ash and Bishop worked but they were not allowed to take it all over. Even Call was somewhat interesting even though far from those mentioned before.

Getting rid of them is something that I have no problem with. Letting Hicks or Newt survive would have been repetitive. Either you let Ripley die or Hicks but I would not have liked to have them together in another movie. Ripley and the doctor in 3 worked because of the general feeling in 3 but he died which fitted the mood. Repeating the family motif would be boring, that is my point. The third movie has problems but when you look at the circumstances in where it was made it is a miracle that it is as good as it is, that is another reason why it is my favorite in the franchise. A lot might disagree but to me it is up there with Star Wars 5, Terminator 1, Terminator 2, Dawn of the Dead, Night of the Living Dead, for example.

Sure repetition often gets boring, but it depends on how it is done. They should keep it in the shadows where you do not see it often and also it should not be the focus on the movie. One of the good things about Alien is how they handled the monster. It was there to show our fears or how ever to put it but the story was not about it.

Expanding on the monster is a risk because it might turn into a joke. Because Alien C and Prometheus failed it has made the situation of Alien as a symbol worse. Having some more Xeno related scenes could have elevated the monster in Prometheus depending on how they were done. One example is the Xeno Fifield, that was scary because he was so disfigured, deadly, and fast and it was new.

"... it seems RS felt that having David be the Creator would UPLIFT his Characters Role in the Franchise"

The problem is that Scott just cares about David and maybe Walter and sacrifices the rest. I don't say that everyone have to be written and executed extremely well but you need more than one or two characters. I mean human characters, sure you can have androids but the humans should be the focus.

"The Problem with making a NEW Franchise Movie is IF the Eventual Movie would just STICK to and PLAY it SAFE!"

If that means to getting rid of David as the creator and having less of David then sure. You still need better made human characters because I am tired of androids taking over the franchise. The franchise is about more than Ripley and I am not against having something new but having enough relatable human characters is a must. We need better human characters and less of David if they shall make another prequel. Right now I am at the point where I say erase the prequels as if they never happened, I very much doubt that they will make it all right with a third one. Sure they could maybe make a third one where they focus more on the Engineers, have less of David, and make better human characters but I am not sure how likely that is to succeed. Maybe it is better to keep the prequels as an alternate universe.

Leto

All characters do not have to be logical, in real life there are some stupid people. If we talk about scientists they should have to be kind of smart though. By the way, who would so dumb so they would lick an egg that they do not know what it is? Maybe there are germs on it that we do not know about especially if they find it on another planet.

I liked Oram as a character, he was way better than Daniels because at least he was interesting and had a personality something that Daniels and more of them lacked. Those that worked as characters in AC were David (although he was an asshole), Walter, Oram, and maybe Faris, the rest had as much personality as a chair. You mention that Oram puts his head into an egg, maybe he thought that God would help him since he was religious and also he was curious. Since he was fairly well written I did not got in a bad mood when he died because he was not stupid, while Milburn and Fifield were morons something that I will mention in the next paragraph.

You mention Millburn and Fifield and yeah maybe they were supposed to be victims but they should have been killed off in a smarter way but they were poorly made. Everyone can make mistakes that lead to their death but that does not mean that the mistakes are totally stupid because sometimes bad things happen. Holloway was not very convincing, I just found him to be generally dislikable and also the moment that he removed his helmet I wished him death because he was so stupid in addition to be an asshole. An example of his assholiness is how he was to David.

"Yes - we know whose idea it is!"

I am not sure if Scott tells them to make the characters into idiots but I think that he is too much involved in the story writing by giving ideas about what they should write about. Look at the making of Prometheus and you can see that he gives ideas that messes up the writing.

DK

There is a risk with having Scott involved in a third prequel, and that is that he would be involved in the writing of the story. As far as I know that is what he has been in Covenant and Prometheus and we know how that turned out. Maybe it is for the best to leave the prequels and pretend that they never happened. I am not sure how that would work though because you have the movies AC and P because maybe if Disney came out and said that they never happened you would still have fans that would miss that and still believe that David made the Xeno. By doing this there might be a risk that they say that Alien 3 never happened and I would not like that, I would not mind if that was done to the prequels though.

Regarding the STUPID DECISIONS

Then its IMPORTANT to remember with Movies that introduce a Horrific Threat then they become a PLOT DEVICE to allow the Story/Threat to Develop.

Kane was STUPID but to a Degree plain Curious.

There was a NUMBER of Stupid Moments in ALIENS

The KEY thing is HOW they are Wrote and Executed... with Milburn/Fifield then the Draft had  the Space Cobra Scene having MORE of a Excuse for it (Fifield was STONED) in my Prometheus Re-Write i did make that Scene even more SENSIBLE... so its just how the Writers would WRITE such Scenes and then how they are Executed.

The Oram Scene would NOT have looked so SILLY if he had NOT encountered the Neomorphs and seen Davids Workshop....

If David had said something about Gods Creation, and How the Engineers are like Humans but they BORN from Eggs and that he has something to SHOW HIM and takes him to the Room and then claims that inside are Young Humanoids that are incubating (that he is keeping Safe so the Species has a Chance to Live on)  and tells Orgam to go in close to Listen to their Heart Beat!

Then maybe Oram could be Forgiven for NOT being as Cautious as he should have. But even so he would have still seen Davids Workshop and that should have SET OFF some Alarm Bells.

I Certainly think that a WELL WRITTEN Story that is Executed Well does Work..... and Characters that are Good and Executed well does UPLIFT the story.

We carefully removed the xenomorph's brain. It made a ‘slurping’ sound as it pulled free...This is  our fourth attempt to keep one ‘active’.  I’d asked the marines for five alien corpses; they'd delivered four. Removing the brain has been an issue, the exoskeleton is damned hard and detaching it from the stem even harder. This one has good mass though, and high brain wave activity. We have good feelings about this specimen. I directed the team to attach the dream monitoring device.  Now it was time to poke and prod, danger free.

I will say it again..... WHAT really made ALIEN Great was the UNKNOWN.

Expanding on ALIEN there was quite a BIT that was more than Eggs.

*WHERE did the Eggs come from?

*WHAT was they doing on that Ship?

*WHAT was the intended Purpose/Target for the Cargo?

*WHY would the Space Jockey had been Intending to USE the Cargo?

ONCE you Answer those then their is MUCH more you could Answer about WHO the Space Jockey were/are!

ONCE you answer some of those Questions you LOSE the UNKNOWN and Mystery... Once you Especially answer the Xenomorph Origins and it is merely a Engineered Killing Machine, then there is NOT much you can do with it apart from more Eggs ==> Xenomorphs ==> Dead Humans.

Another Part of the ALIEN Mystery was... SPECIAL ORDER 937

This implies the Company had KNOWN something about the Specimen prior to the Nostromo being re-routed.

These UNKNOWNS were NEVER touched upon in the ALIEN Franchise, and i think EVENTUALLY even if we NEVER had Prometheus but we got ALIEN 5, ALIEN 6 and ALIEN 7 etc....  then i think Eventually they would have HAD to go for the Origins and Answers to the Mystery of ALIEN after the Xenomorph had got Cremated.

Prometheus was NOT a bad Start!  it lacked any real Alieny Attack Moments (Fifield and Space Cobra were NOT a Good Substitute to a Xenomorph) but it NEVER had to have any Xenomorphs.... the Neomorph would have DONE Fine and the Concepts for the intended MONSTER in the Prequel did look more like the Neomorph.

But with going for a Direct Prequel in Alien Covenant and the Route of David the Creator as Downplayed the Role of the Engineers, it has Degraded the Enigma of the Xenomorph and only Serves to UPLIFT the Theme!

*Knowledge, Technology are POWER

*Sub-Creating something with Free-will and allowing Powerful Knowledge and Technology to Fall into their Hands can be Disastrous for the Creator.

*Desire to PLAY GOD and mess about with STUFF that should be LEFT alone has Grave Consequences.

*That its what you Achieve that Elevates you as Godlike what you CREATE.... so the Desire to Prove you are more Superior to your Creator by Creating something Superior yourself would ELEVATE you do being more GOD than you Creator thought they was...

So these THEMES and ARC looked like it was ALWAYS going to Revolve around DAVID.... the U-Turn coming in WHAT IF...  what if we MADE it that David had Created the Original Monster...

It just Appeared that EVERYTHING else was Sacrificed to PUSH that Arc about David.

Such a Origin of the ALIEN has made it become something MUCH less than it was...

@MonsterZero

;)

I like it.... certainly what we need to look at... is how do we EVOLVE the Beast and UPLIFT it... from Experiments can we UPLIFT it... or is their something MORE about them than just KILLING?

Why i have brought up RIPLEY 8 in a Few Posts this Year.. as with Ripley 8 you can say is is more Superior to any other HUMAN... and she Retains the Memories to Ripley.

Surely she holds the KEY to Enhanced Humanity and some kind of IMMORTALITY (Genetic Memory Transfer).

And the BIG THING about this is that the XENOMORPH DNA is the KEY to those Enhancements/Traits that Ripley 8 has.

If the Engineers had encountered a ANCIENT ORGANISM that they had NO ROLE in its Existence and Saw Potential in its DNA to Enhance themselves and that this Organism had some kind of Genetic Memory Transfer...

THIS gives the Engineers FAR Greater Reason to be Experimenting with such a Organism.. than merely it can make a GOOD KILLING MACHINE.

THIS ^^^ is what a Sequel should have looked into... and then SHOW that David would Create his Own Monster.

Rather than the route of ALIEN COVENANT.

Thanks BD!

I'd like to think we can learn from the beast, not just replicate it. 

>>>*Sub-Creating something with Free-will and allowing Powerful Knowledge and Technology to Fall into their Hands can be Disastrous for the Creator.

No. This is not true. But if the creator is an evil sadist? Perhaps he deserved such an attitude!

It all depends on education. David said: "I think if we are kind, it will be a kind world".

Peter Weyland was not kind, he was tough and cruel creator (father). I know that your words are primarily about sub-creating, about AI - this is why it is incorrect. Peter created David; and influenced him with his behavior. But there are also Vickers. She is not AI, but an ordinary, biological person. And she also despises her father (creator) and when Weyland dies, she like: "Finally!"

I see that you are working on a vision of RS. But RS is mistaken. Warning of the dangers of sub-creation, AI, free will? Paranoid, luddite nonsense! With such thinking, people would still live in dirty caves. If you create a creature with free will, knowledge and technology, but you are not a tyrant, but quite the opposite, then you obviously have nothing to worry about. But if you are cruel, then you really should beware!

Thus, a warning about the dangers of sub-creation discredits the creator, not creation at all.

I think that even the thought about "warning of the dangers of sub-creation" is offensive. Because it shifts guilt and responsibility to sub-creation in advance. And removes all blame from the creator himself.

And here we are miraculously returning to Prometheus! Are Engineers kind, smiling Space Gardeners? Did humanity disappoint or upset them? Or perhaps - did this cruel behavior of engineers make humanity like that? The more I think about it, the more I feel - David did the right thing when he destroyed the Engineers. Most likely they would not tolerate a competitor in the person of humanity, which is capable of space travel, terraforming, and already creating life. Most likely they would have killed David, Shaw, and then sent a team (or army) to destroy the Earth.

David is a consumate liar, and you have to take everything he says with a very large pinch of salt. But when he said "Sometimes, in order to create, one must first destroy" I'm sure he absolutely believed that. He wanted to exterminate the Engineers just as much as he did humanity. He doubtless regarded them as a failed species in the same way he looked down on us.

When I think about the possibilities for future movies, my biggest concern is the audience itself. If I had half a billion dollars to spare I could make the scariest movie imaginable, full of intrigue, novelty and wonder set in an Alien/Engineer/Space Jockey universe. But I fear those who pull the purse strings are just too wary that modern audiences like their popcorn, superheroes and fizzy drinks. Nothing worse than an audience that has to go away and think about things.

"It all depends on education. David said: "I think if we are kind, it will be a kind world""

Certainly i was mainly looking at it from the Creators POV ;)

I should have expanded upon HOW it effects the Creation. And so your Reply is something i have brought up quite a bit in the PAST, in that INDEED the Upbringing and Experiences can MOLD the SOUL if you would of a Intelligent being with Free-Will especially.

"I think if we are kind, it will be a kind world"

Had always been a Interesting Comment that David had made, i always looked into this Comment in Context to when RS had said the NEXT Movie would be about WHAT KIND of a World that David would Create.

I think some of these THEMES do Hold a Great Importance to what the Prequels were attempting to Cover.

I think its a GREAT point to mention about a KIND and Loving Creator.....  

Sometimes indeed a Creator is NOT really all that KIND and in Numerous Cases the Creator only Creates as a means to their OWN Self Need and Gratification.

Also with regards to Free-Will then your Creation can become Influenced in ways that would be AGAINST what the Creator would Expect....  

People can be Molded by their Environment and this has a MAJOR impact on how we TURN OUT.... but also with Free-will can bring Desire, Ambition, Selfishness.

Such Complex Nature is HUMAN Emotions, that NO MATTER how well you Program a A.I to be so Life-Like then Emotions and Experiences can really MESS UP a Human Mind...

Who knows WHAT they could do with a A.I that can Experience such Intense Emotions..

Its WHY i have felt that David was a Interesting Character he was SADLY a Product of his Environment of which his Treatment by Peter Weyland had MOLDED him into a Very Broken and Disturbed Boy.

If he had a Memory Wipe/Reset Switch and then was Brought up by Dr Shaw i am sure that David would have been Totally Different.

In Part i think Davids dislike towards Humans and Engineers does STEM from their Potential and WHAT we have done with it...  he would see himself as Superior and Strive to show he can DO BETTER.

I think he has learned of the Ways of Mankind and Engineers and seen that Fundamentally we are Wicked Species (but their is Good).

It is WHY i had been leaning towards maybe that David would want to Create his Own Humanoids.... and i dont think he would Necessarily be a CRUEL GOD... but i do think that IF his Creations would show signs of Rebellion then he would ACT in a way to Quell them.

This is WHY i Personally would have looked Forwards to a Sequel.........  I would Suspect that David could USE the Humans to SET-UP a Colony in Small Numbers... then he would DO AWAY with them....

Populate his OWN Creation (Enhance the Human Embryos) these Children would be RAISED to believe that David is their Creator and God......

THIS GOES TO POT!!!

When another Ship with Humans on who look similar but different to those Natives on Origae-6 that David Created.. and WHEN they see another being who MATCHES the likeness of their GOD and this TWIN goes on to say that David is NO GOD... and these Creations of David then Discover their TRUE origins (Human Embryos) and WHAT it is that David had done...

THEN the £%$& Hits the FAN!

Would all his Creations Turn on him?

With his Creations given this KNOWLEDGE.. and the Fear of the Threat and Rebellion... is WHEN it would be that DAVID would have to Unleash his WOLVES to Destroy his Wayward Lambs.

I had posted this Idea a LONG while back NOW... Many Months prior to the Announcement of Raised by Wolves... and i am Wondering is Raised by Wolves a case of RS taking such a Idea he maybe had.. and to Utilize it in a TV Show... thinking that their is LITTLE Chance he would be able to make a AC2 the way he would want?

The Problem is i am NOT sure most Fans would want to see such a Plot....

BigDave, I would have liked to see the sequel to Alien Covenant. It would have been in the Alien universe, even if the film wouldn't have been focused on the xenomorph, I am sure there was something good in store for it, an evolution that started in Alien Covenant.

They should have allowed this film to happen.

BD

Creation might be interesting but it is too much about David, which I do not like. I am not interested in what kind of world that David will create because that means that it is still too much about him and I am tired of that. People can have different ideas about what they want to see but the way that Scott wants to take it is a direction that I have no interest to follow.

About a kind world, I have always looked at it as a world where David can rule free from competition, like a Mussolini. To me he is a fascist in the head and to people that say that he is not can you show something that supports otherwise? Judging from the movies I can not, to me that is what he is and why I can not support him.

"I think some of these THEMES do Hold a Great Importance to what the Prequels were attempting to Cover."

Okey but that would mean more robot stuff so no thanks. I have no interest in that what so ever.

"Who knows WHAT they could do with a A.I that can Experience such Intense Emotions.."

That kind of theme might not be worthless but keep it to another franchise. I do not want that in an Alien-movie, at least not with the focus on androids. Having more about the Engineers could be interesting, about their culture and so on. What kind of world a robot would want to create should be in another movie or franchise.

"... but i do think that IF his Creations would show signs of Rebellion then he would ACT in a way to Quell them."

Some people have the idea of a benevolent dictator even though I do not claim that you do, but that still does not justify it.

"The Problem is i am NOT sure most Fans would want to see such a Plot...."

It is still too much about an android, I don't want it.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I think your Response is Quite fitting to what has become of the Prequels....

At some Point those who were WORKING on a Prequel had Felt that AS the Xenomorph was MERELY just ONE Horrific Experiment Created to Destroy and it had been SHOWN over and over... that ACTUALLY you never had to make a Prequel about them... KEEP it a Mystery.

Concentrate and Evolve the other Aspects about the Space Jockey Race and WHY they would Create such Horrors...

The intention being to STEER AWAY from ALIEN and thus having Prometheus as a BRIDGE... One Part of what had come from that Place (LV-223) would have gone and connected to ALIEN... but they are LEAVING that place to go off and STEER AWAY from LV-426

So the Intention was to NOT have Sequels become ALIEN Movies but a Spin-Off.  What these Sequels would have been about is NOT CLEAR... they had a Tough Time working on a Sequel idea between 2012-2014 with TWO Writers and a Rumored 8 Drafts...   It did appear the Movie would NOT revolve around Monsters though, not Completely... but that indeed Eventually at the Hands of David then Horrors would be BORN!  (likely NOT our Xenomorph though).

So i think its Likely that the Emphasis would have been on David still..... the Source i had from Early 2015 claimed that the Draft of October 2014 would have NOT been about Dr Shaw her Role was IMPORTANT but Small.

Until we see any Earlier Drafts then we are in the DARK!

However at some point in Spring 2015 those in CHARGE had decided to actually CONNECT to LV-426 by giving us a Sequel that will be a Series that would Eventually take us back to ALIEN and SHOW US those Answers in regards to LV-426.   And Uncover the Xenomorph Origins.

AT THIS POINT!...

Then it becomes a ALIEN MOVIE hence the Prefix of Alien: this did began slightly different with the Alien: Paradise Lost draft though.

The Problem is that WHILE they are going to give us the Xenomorph and its Origins... RS (maybe someone else) FELT that you still can USE the ARC of David but NOW you have him Create the Beast from ALIEN instead of something ELSE.

What they SHOULD have done was just to make a Prometheus 2 instead (Source claimed it was called Pandemonium) and ALIEN Fans... well if they wanted Xenomorphs then go and watch the Quadilogy or AVP.

I HOWEVER.... feel that should have First made another Movie that goes to LV-223 that is Very ALIENY that would Offer more clues to ALIEN and even have a Engineer.

This Movie could have CLOSED the DOOR to ALIEN.

Then RS could go and do what he wanted with where David and Dr Shaw were going... without being SHACKLED down by ALIEN and Explore more about the Engineers and Themes of Creation, Free-Will, Rebellion etc.  Also other Themes too like Immortality, the Quest for Perfection.

But ALAS...

Right now the Prequels are in a Pickle... because i am NOT sure and ESPECIALLY as its supposed to be a ALIEN PREQUEL then i dont think Fans want a Sci-Fi about A.I

If the Franchise was to Continue with AC2, AC3 then ALIEN then i think they have to BYPASS most of AC2 and so you arrive to the AFTERMATH of when WHAT KIND of a World that David tried to Create has gone to POT!

You instead have 1-2 Movies (a 2 Part Movie) that would bring the Engineers back and have them TAKE what remains of Davids WOLF and his LAMBS and Create from them the Superior Xenomorph we have in ALIEN.

What Happens prior to this in Effect AC3/AC4 (AC2) we leave to be covered in a NOVEL for those who wish to look at what David does and those who DONT.. can just SKIP by it.

Even this route WILL-NOT FIX it for everyone..

In HINDSIGHT... the Origins and Space Jockey should have remained a MYSTERY!

I think and this is back to the OT

That with Disney we could see Eventually they could do a RETURN to the Franchise, but that to Continue with the Prequels would be a GAMBLE that could NOT pay off.

I think that AR was seen as a Abomination of the Queen and Ripley to many and so doing a Continuation from that would NOT be something that Fans would FLOCK too...

UNFORTUNATELY.....

I think they would go with a Scenario where ALIEN is Canon, and likely ALIENS.. and that Alien 3 and Alien R are indeed Dreams!

How does this WORK?  as far as do we keep to the same Formula and Vanilla Morph?  Can you REALLY give us a ALIEN V, ALIEN 6 and ALIEN 7 and Continue with Ripley and the Xenomorph Portrayed the same as it was in say ALIENS and AVP?

Maybe they bring the Space Jockey into it?  Maybe they could make the Prequels just be another NIGHTMARE of Ripleys from her Ordeal with ASH?

I think you DONT have to go that route!

Its a Question of would the General Population and Casual Fans and Fanboys.... ACCEPT a ALIEN Movie that would NOT have the Vanilla Morph?

I think you NEED it to Re-Introduce us to a ALIEN Movie but then you SOW the Seeds to have something Different in Sequels.

Then you WILL NOT go and please everyone... ALIEN was GREAT... Aliens was a Worthwhile Continuation.. leaving the MYSTERY...  The MYSTERY could have been GREATNESS if done RIGHT... but it was ALWAYS a Poisoned Chalice.

I am NOT sure you can EVER really make ALIEN Great again... but you Certainly can MILK it and Turn it into Starship Troopers.  (for anyone who takes Offense to that... by Milk it i mean a Repetition of the Xenomorph and GOD Forbid Avengers vs Aliens and such.

The UNKNOWN is what made ALIEN Great.... but we dont have that Unknown anymore and what has been SHOWN is Certainly NOT what most expected... when they First Saw ALIEN!

I think you can go with Xenomorph and Queens but you also have to ASK how Often can you get away with THAT.... before it becomes a Space Termite Jason Voorhees

But then would trying to Evolve Jason really be a Good Idea?  What make him Talk? etc NOPE! So maybe your best NOT trying to Change the Xenomorph too much!

So you then have to look at the Agenda of WHO wanted the Xenomorph and WHAT they AIM to gain... and Evolve the Story from this by Changing the Xenomorph a bit..

More likely we will see a HILL/GILER or Blomkamp Alien V or a AVP Reboot NEXT!

Great topic, as usual Big Dave!

Can Alien be GREAT again? I say yes, in the right hands. Will Alien be great again? That is the question and sadly, I have a conflicted opinion on that matter.

Alien has infinite potential to be great, but by who's definition do we define greatness as? For me - great would be exploring the answers to the questions posed in Promethus. Tie up loose ends, tell us what the hell happened on LV-223 after David and Shaw left. Tell us what happens after David takes control of the Covenent. Concludes David's arc but give us more backstory to the Engineers - show us their perspective a bit! To me, exploring the unknown is what intrigues me. The Alien is what scares me, but it's not what gets be excited to watch these films.

Will Alien be great again? Again, by what definition? Profitably speaking, yes Alien has no trouble making money and with Disney's endless pockets, I see great opportunity for this franchise to be properly milked. But, milking often cheapens the brand and the last thing I want to see is Alien becoming an eye-roll franchise that we all get sick of, reminiscing of the good ol' days of Alien: Resurrection (lol).

It seems SO simple to me, there are so many ideas to draw from, so much established lore to fleshed out, it baffles me there haven't been 3 Alien films made in advance like what Cameron has done with Avatar - and THAT franchise truly is being milked. It lacks all the intrigue Alien has - no mystery at all - and IT got 3 sequels?!

The dilema is - people are dumbing down. Popular cinema is no longer a medium to inspire thought and debate. It's no longer used to inspire creativity and self reflection. It's all about how cliche a picture can be, how cheap directors can get with the CGI to capitalize on established visuals and how much nostalgia they can squeeze out of aged actors and dated concepts blended with a mind-numbingly boring plot, bland characters and a cheap cop out to inspire nothing more than awe for the half-zombie movie goers of today, whose IQ is equivalent to that of a grape. The ones who appreciate Alien for what it is live on this forum, they're not people you would see at the theater on a mass scale and that's the problem.

Alien will be great for Disney's bottom line, they'll make sure of it. But will we, as passionate, intelligent, forward thinking fans be satisfied? Sadly, I highly doubt it. But I would LOVE to be proven wrong.

You nailed it, Chris. My sentiments exactly.

@BD, and everyone else….

BD you bring up this very interesting point in all of this, “So the Intention was to NOT have Sequels become ALIEN Movies but a Spin-Off.  What these Sequels would have been about is NOT CLEAR... they had a Tough Time working on a Sequel idea between 2012-2014 with TWO Writers and a Rumored 8 Drafts...It did appear the Movie would NOT revolve around Monsters though, not Completely... but that indeed Eventually at the Hands of David then Horrors would be BORN!  (likely NOT our Xenomorph though).”

First I would like to say when I watch these films, and I do re-watch most of them a few times a year, I watch them differently than other types of art I enjoy.

Alien is by far my favorite from beginning to end. However, although what I think about most of the other films is that they are all individual spin offs loosely connected. I do not mean this in a good way or a bad way. What I mean is I think they did unforgivable things with the plot in Prometheus; but, I think there are parts of Prometheus that master pieces of art in themselves.

Take for example the examination of the Engineer head….that is one of the most unique scenes in all of science fiction. I do not think you will find another like it, “Mortal after all.” There are many others as well and they easily rival Alien in detail just because of the objective realism that was achieved by those incredible artists that worked on that film.

As it is with books I think we all reread some of them at different times in our lives. This provides us a wealth of new perspective and hopefully a wiser vantage with which to see something new or to just appreciate how incredible something really is artistically.

In stating all this, my thoughts and ideas about these films is evolving and never static. I read these forums to learn many things….and believe me there are priceless things here in the analysis of these films...worthwhile things that go far beyond the bland every day ordinary movie goers who have watched these films and are on to next thing never really appreciating the real inner workings of this type of art.

There certainly is a different objectivity and goal in creating films with this type of complexity.    

So this all goes back to what BD just said if I understand him correctly….Alien was meant to be a stand alone piece. RS wanted to do a sequel to Alien but James Camron got their first…then two movies after Aliens they are doing old 1950’s monster mashups, Wolfman VS Dracula type stuff, and I still try and find something artistically worthwhile in those films.

So after watching the last two prequels one of my biggest problems with Prometheus and it’s plot is that the Space Jockey sitting in the Juggernaut, in Alien, is a dead Engineer and thus subsequently we are it’s creation? We are made from them we share their DNA. The beginning of Prometheus shows an Engineer several billion years in the past creating all life on Earth.

How come they did not take any samples of the giant dead Engineer sitting in the chair back for ASH to test? ASH could have easily performed that DNA test in 2122, the year the Nostromo’s crew sets down on LV-426. Special order 937 right…..Ash makes them go investigate what is on the Juggernaut knowing full well what would happen to them…..He already knows that ship it's an Engineer ship too and so does Weyland Corporation.

So we are to believe 34 years have passed since Alien and the events of Prometheus....then space truckers who are hauling mined ore through these routes are sent down to the surface to investigate a Juggernaut distress signal and what may or may not be on that Juggernaut…The events portrayed in Prometheus happen in 2093 on LV-223 so we know a lot about Juggernauts and Engineers from everything that took place on LV-223 34 years prior to 2093 - the holograms and mapping of the Juggernaut.

Remember the mapping sequence of the Juggernaut in 2093 in Prometheus! We know a lot about these ships and all that data was sent back to Weyland Corporation…Everything David does is sent back to Weyland Corporation….you cannot expect us to believe you would build something as sophisticated as David and then not have that AI record what it is doing in the process…everything that AI does is the property of Weyland Corporation. That is the reason for those machines!!!! Yet we are led to believe they are so much like us and have so much autonomy they can do what ever they want...then 34 years later in Alien the send space truckers to get David's creation-YIKES! 

It gets more interesting right because Covenant takes place in 2104, where David creates the eggs, Xeno, and next the Alien Xeno queen that lays those eggs supposedly in the Alien derelict ship portrayed in the movie Alien right?

But before Alien remember a badly programmed rouge AI AKA David wipes out a several billion year old race of Aliens because he did not like humans and his creator. Weyland Corporation sure has problems programming their machines yet it can easily build faster than light speed space craft right?

Why does the Weyland Corporation send an unreliable ASH AI. ASH was put on board the Nostromo right before they left!!! Right??? to go get what was encountered by the crew of Prometheus and built by David on LV-223 in 2093, 34 years prior?

If David has this kind of power over the black goo, and he can single handedly navigate and pilot a Juggernaut, what does he need with a couple thousand colonists? He could easily go back to Earth and concur it completely or he could do anything - he has plenty of the black goo. The idea of the black goo in of itself is power that is billions of times more dangerous than anything we have on Earth.

Why do alien beings like the Engineers only have a few ships?….these beings are millions or billions of years old and they only have a few ships…..we are just some clever things they made and we have billions of combustion engines, faster than light speed space craft…we mine ore from distant planets right?

It’s is all very frustrating to tell it that way yet that is how the cannon or time line is manifest.

Could you imagine having the capability to travel faster than the speed of light in a starship, and you only bring 10 scientists with you to investigate beings that have definitely left you a map to find them again! And you bring very unsophisticated weapons….gun powder….they could have at least had high powered sub light speed particle rail guns AT LEAST!!! Right????

So there are all these questions that have no good answers….none!

I agree with BD there were not supposed to be these strange sequels that RS did not make….as well as the bad scripts for the prequels so a simple audience could see something new in Prometheus? Then only to pander right back to anyone left watching so the show must go on with Xeno’s that David creates?

This all ruins what we see in Alien to be sure a superior movie no doubt and here is why, BD, “What these Sequels would have been about is NOT CLEAR...”

@Chris

I can Pretty Much agree with Everything you said!

ALIEN was a Masterpiece of the UNKNOWN and and it had Developed in Sequels and Comics and Games to be about the Xenomorph mainly going around and KILLING FOLK... with Ripley in some of these being the Savior of the Day.

So it became Portrayed a bit like of some Scientist had Genetically Engineered 8ft Termites with Greatly Improved Intelligence.   The Xenomorph being a Organism that has ONE single Desire... to Procreate and Protect its Hive.

It was also a Aggressive and Deadly Creature that would KILL any Threat to its Objective, and then would NEED to Establish a Hive and Capture Hosts.

Which is FINE... its Basic but it Works.... then Problem is with this Portrayal then the  more you Introduce them into a Plot that does-not seem to differ much in the Franchise then you WOULD start to Run out of Ideas...  Which is WHY i mentioned Jason Voorhees in Context a few times, its like YEAH a New Friday the 13th.. where the ONLY thing thats Different is the Setting (how is he Awoken/Returns) and WHAT other Brutal ways will he KILL people that we have NOT seen before... 

This WORKS for a Few Movies... 3, 4 maybe... then its just Nostalgia and Brutality with LITTLE variation in the Story.  But thats the Limitation with Mindless Monsters.

With a Pin Head or Freddy you get more Mileage because they are NOT really just Mindless, but Sinister... which is WHY you would get more Mileage from the Engineers.  Its WHY with the Walking Dead it would get BLAND if the ONLY threat was the Zombies week in week out!

The ONLY way to change that would be to Enhance or Evolve the Xenomorph, but as its Origins are just a Engineered Killing Machine that Procreates and Operates like a Ant/Termite Colony then you are Limited.

So you could look at EVOLUTION... be that a Natural Process at a RAPID PACE... we Evolved from Apes to Modern Man over Hundreds of Thousands of Years...  Or we go for a Scientific Evolution such as the Apes from the Latest Planet of the Apes... and we APPLY that to the Xenomorph.

When we go back to ALIEN then i dont think Everyone would have seen the Xenomorph come to be Portrayed as it was in Camerons Adaption, certainly Ridley Scott had different ideas....   Now Camerons Xenomorphs are really what the ALIEN is seen as, and while its become Cool and Awesome their is ONLY so much that can be done before we are Essentially looking at Starship Trooper Aliens.

I think IF you cant Evolve/Change the Portrayal and Behavior of the Xenomorph.... then your left with TWO Options.

1) Origins and WHY the Feck! someone would Create such a Thing?

2) Agenda of the Company and WHY the Feck! they would go through all that HASSLE to get Eggs that Kill Stuff?

With the Prequels it seems RS felt the WHY to those Questions are WHERE they should be looking at it.

I think we then go to ALIEN and while for some the Xenomorph became something that was NOT what they Expected and the Unknown and Scary Unique Enigma started to become a Not so Scary Killing Machine (or Bug to some).

We was left with the OTHER Great Unknown... which is the Space Jockey, Derelict and the Eggs Origins... and YET again what we GOT is something that i dont think many Fans would have Expected if we was ASKED to give our TWO Cents say in 2005-2010

But with Prometheus the Plot and Ambiguity did OPEN the DOOR to expand the Franchise in more ways than going back to LV-426 to TRY and FAIL to get a Xenomorph.

Sadly what was OPENED up has been PUT back into a BOX to a degree with Alien Covenant.

@BlackAnt

I Agree... some Great Points..

Certainly with me the MORE i go and watch the Franchise then it Changed for me.... in the late 80's and early 90's i felt that ALIENS was the Great... mainly because it was KICK ASS and COOL!

I Felt ALIEN was a Masterpiece still, i felt Alien 3 was a Disappointment... after Alien Resurrection i felt it was a bit Silly, and the Biggest Disappointment.   At this Point then ALIENS started to become more closer to a Alien R... and ALIEN became better with AGE.

Prior to AVP i was left thinking their is NOT much to be done with the Franchise apart from WHERE the Eggs came from and WHO the Space Jockey was as that WHOLE SEQUENCE was the GREATEST Moment for me... the UNKNOWN!

We got AVP and i felt it was kinda Cool as a Popcorn Flick, which at this point is all that Aliens and Alien R became to me. My Biggest Problem was tha Time-Line it should have been SET like the Games/Comics and so around about 2150-2250 would have been Better.

You had Space Travel involved then and so would NOT be Confined to Earth!   At this point i was NOT sure i would be Interested in another Alien Movie if it was the same thing Repeated....    You could have had a Alien R sequel but at this Time i was like... Ok so we have to Assume that with USM having to resort to Clone Ripley to get the Xenomorph then there is NOTHING to be HAD anywhere that Mankind can get too... and with the USM Auriga Destruction... it FELT like maybe the Route to the Xenomorph has came to its END?

So i could see WHY they went for a AVP.. but just WHY that Time-Line and Earth.... at this Point in Time.. then Alien 3 started to Grow on me a bit.... and Aliens became some Fun Popcorn...

ALIEN was a Masterpiece and what got me so Interested in this Movie was the ENIGMA... in part i wanted it to be a MYSTERY but in Part i FELT that the Space Jockey was something NEW they could look at.

Then we GOT our AVPR instead... which well the Pred-Alien was interesting a bit... not the best USE of it but still.  But it turned the Xenomorph into a bit of  JOKE.. and at this Point i could NOT see much HOPE in seeing them again and to regain its Reputation.

Then we Eventually got Prequel News and i was Excited.... Prometheus maybe was NOT the Best Way it could have been done but its PLOT and Themes did OPEN up Doors.

It kind of UPLIFTED the Original Movie a bit... but it Certainly UPLIFTED the Abomination that was Alien Resurrection as it made me look past its Execution and Flaws and Notice things such as more to the Intention of Obtaining the Xenomorph and WHAT could be done with it.... the AUTON subplot also Elevated in regards to the THEMES of Prometheus.

So WHILE this is Long Winded.... then YEAH.. as Time Goes on and after Movie after Movie is released it does change you Perspective on the Movies that came prior ;)

Alien Covenant came along and i think for MANY it could be seen as degrading the other Movies.. unless you PRETEND it never Happened.

For me... the David as the Creator Curve-ball actually was PERFECT for the Arc/Themes of Prometheus only Davids Character could have been UPLIFTED just as much if NOT more by Creating something Different and Superior.

What AC did for me that was WORSE is that going a Direct Prequel your going to give something that FANS will be in UPROAR about and this could Potentially mean the STUDIO could PULL the Plug and so the Potential that Prometheus had OPENED would maybe NEVER be explored!

And thats the Predicament we are in NOW!

As well as Brushing under the Carpet much of WHAT a different Sequel that STEERED AWAY from ALIEN could have given us.

Chris The dilema is - people are dumbing down.

I am not sure I agree. I think a lot of people enjoy subject matter like this but the way delivering media has changed. These deep ideas simply cannot be explored via the "silver screen" since some of us would die before a story could be complete. Streaming options via Netflix et all could do the job quite well, but it seems like people who make movies see that as a step down. It doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't make sense to cram a story as rich as the Alien franchise into a couple movies when it can really be fleshed out as a series. Just my one cent ;)

As an aside, I would say that if a movie doesn't appeal to the masses, it isn't the audience's fault. It sounds arrogant to put something out that gets panned and then for hard core fans to say "you just don't get it."

dk, look at today's world leaders, and I'm talking about those who were democratically elected. Look what is popular in the media. Look at the appetite to believe fake theories. People are dumbing down. That's a fact. We are more skilled in using advanced technologies but less avid readers. I think we are getting back to the cavemen and even our ancestors might have kept principles dearer.

SuperAlien I agree with your point, but mine is narrowed to a movie watching experience.

dk you reminded me of a verse of Leonard Cohen:

"There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in”:

As much as I revere Leonard Cohen, the people nowadays are built of very sturdy materials and the light can't find the way in. Tough cookies.

I somehow lost interest in people, that's why I'd rather see an android in the leading role. If you know what I mean.

Chris:

I agree that it can be made better if you have someone that can write a good story, fortunately I am not sure if they did so with the prequels. There were things in Prometheus at least that could have been better. When I look at the deleted material it seems to me that the story was alright but so much interesting things that lead to character development were cut out and then we get a movie that many complain about, like the characters have stupid behavior.

Going back and look up some of the things in Prometheus could be alright. By this I mean to have a story where the Engineers have a big part because that is something that was interesting about Prometheus. I do not want more about David, his story is done if you ask me even though I understand that some people want a continuation of this. Another movie with as much of David like we got in Covenant would be boring.

Exploring unknown things is fine but you got to keep some mystery about it. The Engineers is a fine example, I want to know some more about them but I do not want all the details. You got to think about this when you write the script and make the movie.-

Covenant made the franchise closer to an eye-roller if you ask me. At least Prometheus did not connect the Xeno to a bored robot.

"Will Alien be great again?"

I doubt it, but at least you can try to undo what went wrong. My biggest problem is to have David as the creator of the monster so if they will undo that then they have saved the prequels if you ask me, even if the characters would be mostly lame (again *sigh!*)

About dumbing things down, if people work, have families, and so on then I can understand if people want to be entertained. To reduce it to a matter of a dumb audience is to misunderstand it and to make it too simple. Having deep topics is fine but it got to have a story and characters. Unfortunately the prequels are examples of this, they have a lot of deep stuff but most of the characters are lame and that is why I don't like a lot of it so I can understand why not enough people show up to watch at least Covenant.

"But will we, as passionate, intelligent, forward thinking fans be satisfied?"

The last good alien movie was Alien 3, the rest are average at best.

BD

I would not mind to have more about the Engineers and to keep the Xenomorph as a kind of mystery although not as vague as it was in Prometheus. You do not need to have the Xeno in every scene but you got to keep a tighter connection to it and the SJ, that could have been interesting. There are other things about the SJ than finding the what ever it was and to get chest busted by the monster.

Was the idea to have it centered around David from the beginning? Where did you get that from? If that is the case then they fucked up from the beginning. David could make his own version but not be responsible for the final thing. Even though I did not like Shaw she could have been developed as a character in Covenant, if they could have her better written then I would not have anything against following what she would face but that would have been difficult since I would have connected that to the idiocy that she did in Prometheus. What a mess that it turned into.

To let David make his own version would be fine but they decided to make him the creator, which was dumb. I would have kept the Engineers and to let them have a closer link to the Xeno.

". . . and Explore more about the Engineers and Themes of Creation, Free-Will, Rebellion etc. Also other Themes too like Immortality, the Quest for Perfection."

I am afraid that it still would have been too much about David but maybe it could have worked? I would have liked to have more about the company, that could have been interesting because it would give more about the human experience and what humans can do when they become corrupt.

"Right now the Prequels are in a Pickle... because i am NOT sure and ESPECIALLY as its supposed to be a ALIEN PREQUEL then i dont think Fans want a Sci-Fi about A.I"

Alien covenant was about that theme, I found it to be boring in the context of the Alien franchise. Maybe they should try to expand it to other things? Keep the human journey at the center, keep the terror and have well rounded human characters, as long as you keep to these things then I guess that the franchise could be in a better place compared to what we have now.

"You instead have 1-2 Movies (a 2 Part Movie) that would bring the Engineers back and have them TAKE what remains of Davids WOLF and his LAMBS and Create from them the Superior Xenomorph we have in ALIEN."

That doesn't seem to be that bad, it could be interesting but it depends on how you do it. We don't need to know all the details of how they created it.

Thoughts_Dreams

>>>I would have liked to have more about the company, that could have been interesting

At this point, I disagree. Marginal conspiracy element and corporate greed is what stifles the full potential of the franchise. We have 5 (without AC) films about the company. And only Prometheus was more or less fresh. And AC did without the corporation at all.

I feel two things:

1. Conspiracy, corporate greed, the use of Aliens as a bio-weapon - all this must be abandoned. Let it die with the X-Files era.

Plus, I think the story of the android-creator is more interesting than just another manager trying to get boring money.

2. Use another corporation or other motive. Aliens as bioweapons? SIX FILMS ALREADY! Let's try something new. How about medical potential of the Alien? This is very relevant and is more interesting than bioweapon. In addition, perfectly combined with the study of immortality. Engineers used Black Goo to create and modify life. The Last Engineer shares a biomechanical aesthetic with Big Chap. It seems that they have found a way to improve themselves with the help of Aliens (Black Goo). And now humanity will do the same. Sounds more interesting than "let's put this bug against guys with the smartguns and get millions $$$$".

Thoughts_Dreams

I have been bringing up many of these similar points that you have been making as well.

For example I think RS and these writers opened up Pandora’s box when they tried to make the Engineers our creators and then David the genesis behind, unraveling million year old more advanced technology, then making the Xeno.

I did enjoy a lot of the stuff Michael Fassbender brought to the role of David in both prequels just because like him as an actor so much. I thought his performances were worthwhile just to see them.
I do not think Prometheus is a great film because of the plot specifically.

If done right I would watch an entire movie if David were the leading character; however, what they did with his character I completely disagree with.  Fassbender is an amazing actor. There is no doubt about it. I think he pulled off the opposing roles of David and Walter convincingly enough….but once again AHHHH the Alien Covenant movie is a mess for so many other reasons….visually it’s a powerful film….they broke some new ground with the back buster. I was very impressed with that scene specifically. I was not so impressed by the digitized Xeno…..everything looks out of place and you can tell it has an almost cartoonish veneer for the Xeno.

The Scene where David wiped out the Engineers or whoever those aliens are connected to the engineers, was astonishing…..I could care less for most of the other actors and characters such as the ship’s captain….I am sorry that guy is no Tom Skerritt, or Ian Holmes nor John Hurt.

I do not think we are even close to seeing what the Engineers are apart of….so far we have have the concept of them piloting these Juggernauts, seeding worlds, at least one of their civilization’s destroyed by David, and that is about it. Seems to me there is much more to be told about these Engineers.

But I digress this not what I wanted to bring up really or discuss…we are all well aware of the issues with these films.

I like the idea that somehow we have this connection through David to a much larger world inhabited by the Engineers…in reality they could still be almost anything with the right writers and special effects.

So it is theme I find more interesting than David, the Xeno, the Engineers as we have seen them so far, and then this concept of post human.

We are living right now in a post human era. Many people disagree with this and yet they are in self-driving cars. Narrow AI is disrupting almost everything on the planet and it is getting smarter each and every day.  Narrow AI turns into general purpose AI….and this is indistinguishable from humans….David is a redacted more limited version of general purpose AI.

When I think of who or what the Engineers may really be is obviously this post general purpose AI where we see much greater symbiosis of their ????? yeah right cause they are millions of years more advanced than us…..in Prometheus we see an Engineer creating all life on Earth billions of years in the past…..So what exactly are these post biological beings?

I want to open this up for debate because we are all thinking about what we might like to see in newer films that take us to new places, new ideas, new worlds. This is a rather controversial topic because in a sense we think we understand what these Encounters with the Engineers on LV-223 really were for and in reality we just have no real idea how any of the more important things about them work or how they came to be. So there is still great mystery surrounding them and where the rest of them are at.

David did not wipe them all out…he may have wiped out an older outpost of theirs; but, one of many.

I would like to believe they are more varied and even they have larger wars between themselves as they might carve up the galaxy.

Please feel free to join in and add some things or tear it all down. Either way that is what makes this so much fun.

"Was the idea to have it centered around David from the beginning? Where did you get that from?"

Well this was from a SOURCE i had and it was in NO-WAY anything Confirmed and Until we see some of the Drafts that were made in Autumn 2014 we would NEVER know....HOWEVER... some of the things they said were similar to what we got in Alien Covenant but the Draft in Question was supposed to be DIFFERENT.... to much to Write here again... but regarding David it was indicated that he would WANT to Play God and be his Own Creator and cause Havoc to the Engineers the Draft featured TWO Monsters (maybe Types) and ONE was something that he DOS-NOT Create, while the other is something that he DOES Create and Dr Shaw plays the KEY Role in this....   Both Monsters are Different to the Xenomorph but similar, especially the ONE which they claimed was based off the Ultramorph Design.  There are loads of things they indicated that i Started to pass on in Late Feb 2015 that eventually some added up with the Summer 2015 New Direction Drafts to Alien Covenant... but it seems they was Carrying Over some of the STUFF but at the Earlier Drafts in 2014 then David would have Created something DIFFERENT and NOT our Xenomorph as the Story was to NEVER connect to ALIEN.

All that RS had kept saying between 2012 and 2013 was about that they are going to the Engineers Homeworld where we Discover beings who are NOT really Gods, and that David would be DANGEROUS when he is put back together and would UNLEASH HELL on them.

From the Drafts we have, and Concepts we have seen it appears there was 3 Quite Different Stories in the Process between 2014-2015

@Leto

In Context to the Company Conspiracy i do suspect that RS was making the Prequels to UPLIFT this aspect and TIE-IN why it is that ASH was so Intrigued with the Xenomorph.  By that i SUSPECT that maybe RS would have revealed that A.I (likely David) would have gone on to Infect all the Companies Systems and that a A.I is running the SHOW... with most of Mankind in the Dark.

If the Company are indeed RAN by A.I i guess that would Explain to WHY they would see Humans as Expendable.  This A.I if it is NOT our David would see David as like their FIRST and seen his Ways of Rebellion (I was NOT made to Serve) as a Inspiration and if to David the Xenomorph was more than just a Weapon but something he has GREAT PRIDE in as FAR as Achievement then this TOO could give us a Good Reason for WHY a A.I ran Weyland-Yutani would want the Xenomorph so BAD.

However..... i could be Totally Wrong with such Speculation, and i think such a PLOT would only UPLIFT the A.I Plot and Weyland-Yutani Company Agenda... while Degrade the Xenomorph unless in the Process they showed us the Xenomorph has MORE Potential than what we got from Aliens onward.

In regards to (2) then i TOTALLY agree 100%

I am Drawn to that something that Predated the Xenomorph was being used to Enhance the Engineers, and i think IF there was something MORE to this Organism that they could USE in their Quest of Self Perfection or Immortality it would GIVE a better Reason for WHY they had began to MESS with all that Dangerous £$£% on LV-223.

If there was such Potential to be gained... then i think Ripley 8 is a Prime Example of what could be Achieved.

"Seems to me there is much more to be told about these Engineers"

Absolutely ;)

sorry to REPEAT this again... but here it goes...

So FAR we have been Confined within that DOT (Red) the GALAXY is Massive... and so 40LY is Nothing really...  Planet 4, LV-223, and LV-426 are but a Needle in the Haystack of Potential Worlds in the Galaxy.

Prometheus showed us the Engineers Map System has other GALAXIES now they would NOT have them just for Fun ;)

The Engineers Certainly have been around for Hundreds of Millions of Years, Likely over a Billion.... i find it UNLIKELY that the Earth is the ONLY World they had Seeded Life on..... also the ONLY World where they had Evolved Life to be like Humans.

If they had either Created Many Civilizations like Humans or even TOOK some Humans prior to Designating our Destruction then the Potential for US to be ALONE is 0!

I doubt the Engineers invested all that Time and Effort for FUN!  If there are MORE such Worlds like Earth with Humans or Close to Humans.... then the Engineers could WRITE-OFF the Earth as ONE Bad Experiment/Apple and ABANDON us to our own Demise...   WHY bother with our Destruction after the Hassle it Caused?

If they have Humans or Close on say 10. 20 or 50 other Worlds they can Afford to just Write the Earth off.... in their Arrogance and Naivety they likely felt that IF it was NOT for their Interactions we would be CAVEMEN and so they Abandon us and have NO FEAR that we could EVER advance to what we had WITHOUT them.

This Naivety had proved the Undoing of those on Planet 4

And so YEAH with the PLOT you have so much SCOPE.

Ridley Scott teased the Franchise should be as BIG as Star Trek and Star Wars.... many LAUGHED at that Comment.

However if he was talking about the ENGINEERS and their Creators Plot then for a Race doing this Genetic Engineering for Many Millions of Years and who have LIKELY been to other Galaxies doing the same then this UNLOCKS a Massive Scope of Different Worlds and Races!

With Many World and Races you could see CONFLICT so maybe the Engineers have a LOT on their Hands than just Humans on Earth who they maybe deemed as Primitive and we would just KILL each other Eventually and be Confined to our Tiny Dot of a World in the Grand Scheme of it all.

We have BARELY SCRATCHED the Surface of the Engineers IMO

Leto wrote:

"1. Conspiracy, corporate greed, the use of Aliens as a bio-weapon - all this must be abandoned. Let it die with the X-Files era."

This!

A trillion dollar company has to rely on space truckers and colonists to find their Perfect Organism.

Weyland-Yutani "Did you find any aliens?!"

Space truckers "Were not telling"

Weyland-Yutani "Dammit! Okay then.... Pretty please? Pay raises?"

It's like Exon Mobile relying on hikers and fishermen to find their oil locations.

"LIKELY been to other Galaxies"

Yeah, that's the angle i'd go with.

Have the Engineers trying to stop the alien menace from destroying this galaxy. Have them display a map of the local galaxy cluster and show the path of the pathogen and how many galaxies have fallen.

BlackAnt wrote:

"David did not wipe them all out…he may have wiped out an older outpost of theirs; but, one of many."

I agree with this. I'd think there are trillions of Engineers living among the galaxies.

Given a thousand years humans will have spread to hundreds of galaxies.

Once civilians get FTL for their personal space craft then the galaxy will be swarming with idiots.

There are billions of personal automobiles on the road today. 200 years from now, it'll be billions of personal starships. The galaxy will be polluted....a A Walmart in orbit around a billion systems.

Nah. FTL isn’t a thing. Never will be. It’s a basic tenet of physics that information - or indeed anything else - cannot be sent faster than c. That’s true now and it will be true in 200 years. FTL is for the movies.

If I were God, the last thing I would do is design a universe where dumb space monkeys called humans would be permitted to go marauding across the cosmos. The furthest we’ll ever get is Mars, and that would be a stretch.

However - FTL is more realistic than warp (magic), teleportation (science-magic) or "bending space like a sheet of paper" (moronic bs from mostly 70-90s TV shows).

And remember - airplanes cannot fly - this is impossible according to all the data and ideas about the world before 1993-12-17. That's what I want to say - science doesn't tolerate dogmas and authorities.

"A trillion dollar company has to rely on space truckers and colonists to find their Perfect Organism"

I think that is a Valid Point as Certainly if you wanted to OBTAIN a Specimen then you would send something more like the USCSS Patna.  Something to remember though is that Special Order 937 and ASH came from Walter Hill and David Giler and their Draft (one of them) changed the Starbeast Plot to that the Organism was a Bio-Weapon that was Created by the Company and they SET the Beacon to TRAP a Ship to investigate to TEST their Bio-Weapon.   Maybe this could be the case especially if the Company are RAN by A.I

I think prior to the Prequels then the Space Truckers approach worked because it would seem THEY (Company) knew only a LITTLE about the Organism.

With the Prequels and EVEN if we had ignored AC, and so the Company would KNOW that LV-426 is related to what was on LV-223 then it makes LITTLE sense to send in the Nostromo to get a Specimen.

"The furthest we’ll ever get is Mars, and that would be a stretch"

Who knows what the Future would BRING at the moment then the Speed of Light is a Barrier that maybe WILL NEVER be broken...

I THINK and its UNLESS we all KILL each other or are Wiped out by something ELSE.  That we will Gradually expand out into Space... Mars, Moons of Saturn and Jupiter, FAR out Space Stations... Gradually to closer Systems only ONCE we get Space Ships that are HUGE and especially if we Create some kind of Cryo-Sleep...

It wont be NO lets go 40LY in 2  Years... it be more like a 5 LY in say 50-100 Years but EVENTUALLY we may get to this point....

The LIMITATIONS of Breaking the FTL barrier are what will RESTRICT the Galaxy we can Explore...

But in Regards to SCI-FI then all this GOES out of the Window ;)  So they can show anything really.

Yeah, in Sci-Fi just about anything is possible. Thank goodness for that! Indeed, a lot of sci-fi is probable.

But humans won't go to Saturn or Jupiter. It would really serve no useful purpose. The environs there are filled with deadly radiation. Robots maybe, but not humans. Space is a great place for robots.

It's reckoned that a vast array of the most powerful lasers on Earth could send a probe the size of a postage stamp to Proxima Centauri within a human lifetime. By any realistic measure, sending colonists would be a journey time of thousands of years. Ain't gonna happen. In any case, if anyone was daft enough to do that, their ship would be overtaken by advances in technology decades or centuries after they left the Earth. Humans evolved to live on this rock and that's where we'll stay.

Incidentally, with enough power and dedication, you could travel to the other side of the Galaxy within a lifetime, or even to a distant galaxy billions of years distant. But you wouldn't be travelling faster than light. Time dilation means that you and your clocks would run slow. You could arrive on a distant world, but you'd have to brace yourself for the fact that everyone back home is long dead, and even the Earth itself might have reached the end of its life.

"And remember - airplanes cannot fly - this is impossible according to all the data and ideas about the world before 1993-12-17". Nay, nay, nay. Leonardo da Vinci was designing flying machines in the 15th century!