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Alien: Isolation (the novelization) and the Space Jockey

Alien: Isolation (the novelization) and the Space Jockey

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chli

Aug-01-2019 2:02 AM

I just read "Alien: Isolation". The novel is based on the horrifying game with the same name. We follow Amanda Ripley to Sevastopol Station in search of her mother who disappeared with the towing ship Nostromo. The year is 2137, about 15 years after the occurrences of Alien, and 42 years before Aliens.

At the beginning of the novel, the salvage vessel Anesidora finds a flight recorder. On it is the name of the disappeared ship: UCSS Nostromo. Then they pick up a distress call which leads them to LV-426 . . .

We have had many a discussion about the Space Jockey. How old is he? How long has the Derelict been there? How old are the eggs? Can David be behind it all? Can he be the creator of the xenomorph? It’s about 18 years between the occurrences on Planet 4 and Alien . . .

The novelization Alien: Isolation is written by Keith R. A. DeCandido and published this year (2019). In his “Acknowledgements”, he mentions Steve Tzirlin at 20th Century Fox as supplying “reference material and approvals” and who “guided the story” in many ways.

So, what is the problem? Well, the crew of Anesidora follow the distress signal they have picked up to LV-426. They find the Derelict and enters an opening without a door. Foster (the wife of Captain Marlow) comments that “Somebody must’ve knocked the door off”. Who or what did that?

Anyway, they continue inside the huge spacecraft and finally get to a huge room. In the centre of it is the Space Jockey. The “human form was huge - at least 16 feet tall - and it had been there a long time. It looked like a fossil”. Its ribcage had exploded outwards and Marlow comments: “it’s hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins, but it’s not a synthetic. It’s definitely a life form” (That seems to leave out David as the Space Jockey . . .).

Later on, Marlow finds the beacon and turns it off (which is why the colony of Hadley’s hope didn’t pick up the signal).

Then, they find the hole which Kane entered and the equipment used to lower him down (and up). Marlow descends and seeing the huge area with rows after rows of eggs, he wonders if this is really a part of the ship or a cave beneath it . . .  Furthermore, he ponders whether the eggs can still be alive. He concludes that the “idea seemed ridiculous. The ship had been there for a very long time, as the desiccated pilot proved” . . . Still, it’s “alien life forms” surrounded by mist and “a vague blue light seemed to come from the floor” . . .

So, my point is that in this novelization, published this year (2019), and which a representative of 20th Century Fox was involved in, they still stick to the Derelict and the Space Jockey being very old (and organic - not synthetic). Are they not aware of the route Ridley Scott took: that David is the creator of the xenomorph? Are they not aware of the problem: If the Derelict and the Space Jockey have been there for a very long time, David cannot be the creator of the xenomorph.

68 Responses to Alien: Isolation (the novelization) and the Space Jockey

ignorantGuy

Aug-01-2019 2:49 AM

chli Yet, the same 20th C. Fox approved for Covenant (in Meet Walter) and it's novel prequel that the Walter line is part organic at least. So are you sure that could not be David in Walter's body?

“it’s hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins", this is a very weird phrase as usually space suits cover the whole body... And if the suit is organic, the wearer inside could be a synth.

At least this confirm that the Jockey is a suit, not a giant elephatine alien. Yet they they made it even taller than it was...

We cannot be certain how the lore keepers think, but they could keep inconsistencies to generate endless debates on forums to keep the series relevant. Yet, we can see that RS did not imposed his ideas as there is no Covenant sequel and some things could be course corrections.

chli

Aug-01-2019 5:42 AM

IgnorantGuy

I'm afraid I don't agree with your interpretation. Marlow says that their's a hole in the ribcage and that's it's organic. "It's definitely a life form" and "it's not a synthetic".

But the biggest problem is the age of the Space Jockey. Both Marlow and Dallas says that the creature has been dead for a very long time and that it looks fossilized. We're talking millennia - not just a couple of years. This rules out David! If we go by this, David is neither the SpaceJockey nor the creator of the xenomorph.

 

ignorantGuy

Aug-01-2019 6:06 AM

chli You have missed my point. I was only trying to find ways how David could fit into the picture. As many people said before, it could have been Dallas mis-reading the age of the fossil. But the author of the novelization seems to go by this interpretation, and it makes sense in the Lovecraftian setup (trope). But David being the one creating the xenomorph makes sense in the limited context of Covenant. And RS is not particularly interested in continuity, so why should we try to solve unsolvable riddles?

To clarify, I don't care who created the Xenomorph because it is a stupid monster at the end of the day, who is killed in almost every movie (perfect organism my @$$). I don't care who ends out to be the Space Jockey as it also does not matter. And I don't find Covenant David compelling at all.

PS. Let's not forget about the dreaded time travel!

chli

Aug-01-2019 7:40 AM

IgnorantGuy

At least two people have now "misread" the age of the Space Jockey. Both of them were accompanied by two other people (who didn't contradict them) which makes 6 people.

I might add that Russ and Anne Jordan also saw "the mummified bones jutting out of its exosuit, and the hole behind its ribs". So there must be some kind of mass hallucination . . . :)

I care if the xenomorph is a) an old species (discovered by the Engineers) b) created by the Engineers or c) created by David.

The problem is that 20th Century Fox doesn't seem to care . . .

There is, of course, a point in making things ambiguous. It keeps an interest going. But, the problem is that Ridley Scott doesn't seem to want ambiguity, because he's said that David is the creator of the xenomorph. 

hox

Aug-01-2019 7:53 AM

Ridley has contradicted himself over the years, so I'd take his statement with a pinch of salt. For sure, David tampered with some genetics to make the particular Xenomorph we saw in Covenant. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the same beast we saw in Alien and Aliens.

Come to think of it, Ridley has said some pretty daft things. On the Covenant commentary, after the Xenomorph gets minced, he says that it could regenerate itself from one of its detached limbs! Ho ho, he's probably been watching too much Carry On Screaming, where Oddbod regenerates from a finger!

Tiwaz

Aug-01-2019 8:09 AM

Hm, it's been a while since my last post here.

Anyway, I don't think the jockey is fossilized. The requirements for that aren't met. Like Gavin in another post, I think our big friend is mummified or sthing alnong those lines. But does that make it less old? No. Especially since there are hints all over for the xenos to be around for a long time (books etc).

IMO David recreated the Alien. I believe the goo always produces a Xeno, no matter who's fooling around with it. Thats what it is meant to do, so to speak.

Kinda like this:

1.)

Black goo is used in a rather uncontrolled fashion (Bombs, drinks, other ways of exposure) which leads to mutations and/or the breakdown of organic matter.

2.)

The mutated organisms develop more and more towards the final form, the xenomorph.

3.)

Once the final stage is reached it produces and uses the black goo in a "proper" fashion to create offspring.

That's at least what I get after reading Alien: The Cold Forge. There the facehuger doesn't use an embyo but goo to impregnate it's victims.

 

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

BigDave

Aug-01-2019 6:15 PM

I have not read the Novel (i tend to not read any, i have to maybe make time and buy some) so i cant speak to much about it. As in i can only take what is put down by those who have Read It.

so i think sometimes its a case of WHAT is Canon, i think certainly ALIEN exists within the Alien Isolation Time/Event Line (Reality) but as far as IF the Alien Isolation is Canon to ALIEN is up for debate, Alien Isolation kind of Gives us a Alternative Story but i do think its Considered Canon to a degree.

Maybe FOX use expanded Material to tease/explore a different outcome than the Prequels had teased and indeed what RS had indicated?

I think Firstly YES the Derelict/Space Jockey does-not look like its been there up to 17 Years, as far as when the Nostromo Crew Arrive...  we really dont know what route RS was going but if its that in the Year 2105 there is NO Derelict then its a case of would they just have us to have to Accept the AGE of the Ship as far as HOW-LONG is something that would be a Oversight?

The Prequels have NOT concluded and so that route can be contested and changed..  they have to find some reasonable explanations WHY the Derelict is Ancient though.. but again even if we get a U-Turn we could get a Lazy Oversight again.

But to cover the Isolation Novel from what you have mentioned.. There are some Flaws... the Space Jockey Prop is 16ft Long the Space Jockey does-not account for the hole of it...  Its is likely the Space Jockey was about 13ft but as we dont see the Legs.. it would be between 12-15ft. (which was what they was going for in the First Prequel Drafts). 

But thats just Nit Picking... so yeah the Space Jockey Certainly could have been 12-16ft.

The Fossil Comment could be because again Marlow had interpreted the Rib-cage as being part of a Skeleton... but we need to look at what is a Fossil, but more so maybe Scrub that... but consider what could the SUIT BE..

“it’s hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins, but it’s not a synthetic. It’s definitely a life form”

As this is the Biggest Clue, it indicates its a Suit, one where its hard to make out what is the Suit and Wearer...

So it implies the Suit is Organic and Attached to the Wearer.  So this comment kind of Rules Out a Few Things but leaves others Open...

This is indicated by RS and attempted to be shown in Prometheus, but the Engineers Suits are somewhat more Mechanical than the Space Jockey Appeared.  (Maybe Technology Age Difference?).

I think its best i USE the Old Analogy i used on here in 2012 which is the Cactus...  The Suits could be somewhat Organic, like a Plant (HR Giger said the Derelict was likely Grown like a Plant).

If we look at a Cactus the Flesh (Green) is Leathery to a Degree, Smooth almost Synthetic Feel to it, yet also Organic.   When a Cactus Dies then its Color Changes and it withers away a bit.

Regarding HOW-LONG the Derelict had been there... well its a case of if Marlow thinks 30+ Years is a Long Time?

Surely he felt it looked like it had been there Longer than that!

I think the BIGGEST Flaw with the Space Jockey/Engineers as far as DATE! is the Suits.. we have to ASK this Simple Question.... WHY did the Long Dead Engineer Suits in Prometheus simply NOT look as Withered/Aged as the Space Jockey?  Yet they had been on LV-223 for 2000 years?

You could Conclude the Space Jockey must have been on LV-426 for Much Much Longer than 2000 years.... unless the Suits/Being are NOT the same or some other Explanation to HOW the Space Jockey withered away Quicker?

Would such a Conflict be Addressed? or a Oversight like the Size Difference?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-01-2019 6:34 PM

I think Regarding RS...

We have to Remember as of the Prequel Concept the Derelict had been on LV-426 for a Long Time.. Alien Engineers is a bit Flawed... its ENDING cant lead to ALIEN for a number of Reasons...  thus its intention was likely to show that a Similar Fate had happened to the Space Jockey Thousands of Years Prior.

Prometheus was more ambiguous but it was to indicate a Connection between LV-223 and Black Goo and Xenomorph but it was left with NO spoon Fed Explanation.

However RS had confirmed what happened and indeed as of 2012 the Space Jockey/Derelict was a Event that was Connected to LV-223 and happened within a Few Hundred Years of the Outbreak on LV-223 some TWO Thousand Years (give or take).  Thus its likely the Derelict had been Sitting on LV-426 for about 1800-1900 Years (give or take).

But ALAS... we got the Alien Covenant U-Turn which you have to wonder if they Considered the contradictions and things that need Clearing up by going the Route they had.. if we assume its that as of 2105 there is NOTHING on LV-426.

The Regenerate Comment was a bit ODD... we dont see Camerons Xenos Regenerate... or those Xenomorphs in Alien Resurrection...  maybe it takes Time?

The most Logical and Best way to Incorporate any kind of Regeneration would be that ONCE the Organism Dies... from its Body it will Decompose into a Mass that a Egg or Eggs will Grow from..

Making it ACT like a Cabbage ;)

Ridley Scott had said that the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant has got some way to EVOLVE before we get to the Bio-Mechanical Beast from ALIEN (read into that how you will)  Ultimately.... we have NOT concluded the Prequels and so things can Change... i would say more likely than NOT as Disney would want to Please Fanboys... and i would say even MOST of the Fanbase would think the idea of the Xenomorph/Derelict as NOT being Ancient is well DAFT!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-01-2019 6:45 PM

@Tiwaz

A lot has changed regarding the Goo and LV-223, each Draft/Movie things get changed... Originally (Jon Spaights Prequels) it seemed the indication was the Engineers encountered a Organism they then used their Creation/Hybridization Tool (Nano-Scarabs) on to Experiment and Create Various Versions of this Organism, the Xenomorph being ONE Variety they Re-Engineered.  It appears Prometheus had same intention only making it Vague....  but then we had EDITS and stuff...

There Definitely was a Connection between Black Goo and Xenomorph...   The Black Goo either came from a Xenomorph, or it leads to the Xenomorph as a result of Experiments or a Accidental Outbreak. Or they both came from another Source.   I am more drawn to that the Black Goo comes from Various Experiments they had conducted, but these all Started with some Organism they had NOT created... but they use the GOO to Experiment with this Organism.

But then we have that Curve-ball and i can Understand WHY... but then it would have made more Sense for David to Re-Engineer something Similar and Improved.. but ALAS!

At the Moment.... its a bit of a Mess... but there are ways around it... unless Disney Stick to Ridley Scotts Guns!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

daliens

Aug-01-2019 10:53 PM

 BigDave there may be a difference between the Engineers' suits, although they look similar, they may have different fabric and purposes. I think there is the Pilot suit, that grows out of the chair and the other suit hanging on board the Juggernaut or worn by the LV223 Engineers. If the latter are kind of chemical / antiexposure suits they might be more resilient and not change aspect / colour with time.

Regarding the spoon feeding novel, I do not agree with such approach and I believe it will not end the debates regarding the origin of Space Jockey and the xenomorph. But alas, the most important thing is that the beacon was switched off and the mistery of setting the Hadley's Hope next to the deadly ship is solved.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

hox

Aug-01-2019 10:54 PM

I’m wondering why the Derelict Space Jockey looks like he’s grown out of the seat, and the Engineer in Prometheus most definitely does not. Perhaps the seat stays ‘alive’ for a long period of time and sends out creeping tendrils that eventually engulf the pilot, wrapping him in a deadly embrace like ivy smothering a tree. Ultimately they might become one and the same ‘organism’...

chli

Aug-02-2019 1:40 AM

As for "fossilized", they say it looks that way. The correct term might be mummified or that it's desiccated. The mummies we usually think of are about 4000 years old or so . . .

Much material is organic (leather, wool) so what happens, in time, is that body and clothes mould together as they decay.

The Space Jockey is in a climate where he is exposed to the condition of LV-426, which is harsh. The "doors" of the juggernaut are open. But he is not directly exposed to it. The hole down to the egg-chamber (where there is a different climate) can perhaps also affect the climate in the pilot room?

dk

Aug-02-2019 1:49 AM

To the OT- I completed the game but did not read the novel. Question- was there any mention of how that hole was made in the floor? It was implied that a face hugger or chest burster created it.

chli

Aug-02-2019 3:25 AM

dk

No, no answer to that riddle.

The question remains: Did something come up, or did something go down?

Leto

Aug-02-2019 3:43 AM

During the Space Jockey scene, Dallas was the narrator. If he said: "Looks fossilized". It's true.

 

Another point - Alien Covenant it's not a prequel to Alien. it's a prequel to AC2. The story is not finished. Trying to explain the Alien in terms of AC it is very far-fetched. Without AC2 - AC is just stand alone story, a sequel of Prometheus, without any connections with Alien.

 

chli

Aug-02-2019 4:13 AM

Leto

Well, Dallas says: "Looks like it's been dead a long time. Fossilized"

I agree, how about a twist in AC2?

BigDave

Aug-02-2019 6:08 AM

I think maybe we could look at the Differences in Climate as Regards to the Effect on the Space Suit... we know that on LV-223 the Atmosphere inside (Outpost and Ships) was Breathable for Humans, we have to assume that in ALIEN that LV-426 is Hostile Environment and that inside the Derelict it likely has LOST its Environment that is Sustainable for us without a Space Suit.

So YES maybe that could account for the Colorization, but also maybe such Factors could Speed Up the Rate of which the Suit Decays/Withers away?

Regarding Alien Covenant it is a Prequel, one that was to go on a Direct Route to LEAD to ALIEN... but indeed as the Movie Ends we are 17.5 Years away the Nostromo turning up at LV-426 and that does-not leave much time Considering that Ridley Scott claims we are at least TWO more Movies away before we Discover WHO is in that Chair and HOW/WHY those Eggs get on the Derelict.

IF we assume the route being taken and Events Chronologically lead to the Derelict then as of 2105 we have to assume there is NOTHING related to the Derelict and Space Jockey on LV-426.

A Bitter Pill to swallow for a lot of Fans...

But ALAS... and the point i think you raise LETO is that as of NOW those Prequels have-not Concluded at Present with ALIEN we know the Derelict is there and its a Mystery of Sorts... at Present in Context to LV-426 it is Unexplored and so we have NOT been shown what is on that Moon so we could NOT rule out there is NO Ship or that the Derelict is THERE already!

And so while there is NO Conclusion, we can Clutch at Straws in the Hope that we get a Different Reveal or that it gets left a MYSTERY!

Something to Consider......

As of Prometheus they felt you did-not have to Show the Xenomorph Origin,  you did not have to have Xenomorphs running around Killing people because we have seen that OVER and OVER so they thought you could do away with that and Concentrate on the Space Jockey Race while giving us Clues to a Connection between Horseshoe Ships, Bio-logical Warfare Horrors, and the Space Jockey, leaving the Derelict a Mystery but inferring that its Connected to what the Engineers were up to Thousands of Years ago!

Then they can go off and make a different Franchise that is NOT about the Xenomorph!

However at this TIME while they kept it a Mystery the Truth at that Time was that YES the Derelict is related to LV-223 and it has been on LV-426 for between 1800-2200 Years (Give or Take).

But some Backlash to Prometheus, how it never gave the Answers a lot of Fans Expected (at least more indication) and the lack of Xenomorphs (well at least similar Monsters in Action).   Had made FOX decide that Actually its maybe better to Provide a Route to the Origins of the Xenomorph, and Eventually lead to the Space Jockey and also introduce Xenomorphs again!

Unfortunately the Plot they gave us and that Curve-ball was something that has Disappointment Fans and IF this is the True Avenue to the Xenomorph then its going to leave a lot of things that have to be Covered, as there are a LOT of Conflicts/Contradictions at the Moment.

But the Purpose of that Last Part of my Post is to show that Alien Covenant came about from Fan Reaction to Prometheus.  (yes it had other Flaws, but FOX felt that going away from Xenomorphs and NOT giving the Origins or Derelict Event any answers was a MISTAKE and is what Fans would prefer).

Certainly the Path they took i feel has disappointed more Fans than Prometheus NOT having Xenos and Answers. (be Careful what you wish for).

But the Knee-jerk Reaction that created Alien Covenant shows that Fan Reaction can SHAPE the Future.

Disney would want to MAKE sure that any Future Movies will MAKE $$$$ which means giving Most Fans what they want or at least AVOID anything that would have Fans Protesting and being Disappointed..

so INDEED until we have a Conclusion to the Prequels or UNTIL a Alien Movie provides Concrete Proof that would show the Derelict as Ancient then at the MOMENT...

LV-426 and the Derelict remain a MYSTERY.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-02-2019 6:32 AM

"The question remains: Did something come up, or did something go down?"

Certainly is a Mystery one that changes a little with Alien Covenant... however as my previous Post indicated we are NOT at the Conclusion yet.  So we can Speculate WHEN this happened.

It seems almost 100% Certain the Space Jokey was infected with his Cargo.  The Answer to this had been implied/changed a little with the Prequels as far as Drafts and Ridley Scotts comments.  With Alien Covenant we have to Consider that is offers us TWO outcomes that this Event Happened After 2105 or that it was Ancient.

But this should NOT affect Speculation about the HOLE.

So lets look at Possible Ways that it could have happened.. if we IGNORE every Answer we had been given as we have NOT been shown what happened on Screen so we are left with some of these.

1) Face Hugger gets loose Crawls up the Cargo Hold and Burns through the Floor to get to the Space Jockey (UNLIKELY*).

*Hole looks Burnt downwards!

2) Face Hugger had infected the Space Jockey some other way, the Space Jockey throws the Face Hugger to the Ground and it Dies and Dissolves causing the Hole. (UNLIKELY*).

*Unlikely the Space Jockey encountered the Face Hugger in that Room.

3) The Space Jockey is Chest Busted and the Organism Grows and somehow it is able to Burn through the Floor by Producing Acid.  (MAYBE*).

*seen similar in other Movies (inc AVPS).

4) The Xenomorph cant Escape the Room it Dies and then Dissolves and creates the Hole (FLAWED*)

*The Nostromo Crew managed to Enter the Room, surely a Chest Buster could escape it.

5) The Space Jockey managed to Grab and Kill the Chest Buster and throw it to the Floor, it then Dissolves into the Hole. (MAYBE*).

*while Chest Busting kills, we saw Ripley was able to Hold on to hers while she was falling into the Furnace Engineers are STRONG and maybe could Grab and Kill the Chest Buster with its Last Breath!

6) The Hole appears after the Space Jockey Event, someone else arrives at the Derelict before the Nostromo and encounter a Xenmorph Life Cycle that is KILLED and thats how the Hole occurs. (MAYBE*)

*Certainly No Reason why someone else could NOT have been on the Derelict after the Crash but prior to the Nostromo.

I would add that its UNLIKELY the Hole had Formed before the Derelict had Crash Landed or Moments prior.

EDIT:

“Somebody must’ve knocked the door off”

Taking the NOVEL as Canon and a Clue...

Then this could lead us to OPTION 6

I will however say that the Layout of the Derelict and Juggernaught are DIFFERENT.   While the Bonus Mission for Alien Isolation attempts to Explore the Room/Ship its layout is a bit different to what we saw in ALIEN... with ALIEN the scene is Dark so we DONT get to see the FULL SET so we cant assume the Room is exactly as the SET, if we do then this Conflicts the Design shown in Alien Isolation.

Another point... the Door they Enter in Alien Isolation and the Door to the Beacon are TOO SMALL for the Space Jockey, it would be a Tight Fit for a Engineer too.

The Space Jockey would have to CRAWL through these and then it would be Tight like a AIR VENTILATION SYSTEM.... maybe thats what these Entrances are?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-02-2019 9:24 AM

I will add that there are Differences between the Derelict and Juggernaught and Unless its a Big Oversight....  they are NOT the same Ship.

Differences are not Limited to.

*Size and Dimensions of the Ships (External/Internal)

*Slight Aesthetic Differences (External/Internal) 

*Different Layout Inside.

*Slight Differences to the Chair/Controls

*Differences to Pilot Suit/Size

Ridley Scott had said that they are Related, like Brothers and he said that MAYBE the Juggernaught and Derelict are Separated by a Few Hundred Years, this could mean they are a Different Model, like how you could take say a 1970s Mustang compared to a 2010's Mustang.

This does-not change how the Derelict could be on LV-426 for Thousands of Years or 10-15 Years... as they could introduce in the Alien Covenant Sequels a different Version of Juggernaught, and Larger Pilot that FIT more with the Aesthetic/Size of the Derelict.

Or they could just Give us a Juggernaught, Load it with Eggs and show it Head down to LV-426 and show the Space Jockey Suit as the same as in Prometheus and 8-9ft Tops and SIMPLY not care about any Aesthetic/Size Differences and it would be just a Oversight!

I hope if we get to that POINT they are not so LAZY! but in doing this would leave it OPEN to Argue that this CANT be the Space Jockey Event.

I also hope what ever route they take... be it SHOW that indeed as of 2105 there is NO Derelict/Eggs on LV-426 or they Indicate that there INDEED are a Ship/Eggs a LONG TIME before Prometheus...

I just hope they Respect the other and try and Tidy Up some of the Inconsistency.  So if we go for the DAVID Creator or he Simply Created the Proto-morph, then i HOPE they have a Good Story and show us a SHIP and PILOT that matches the Size/Aesthetic of the Derelict/Space Jockey and maybe come up with a Good Reason WHY it looked like they had been there a LONG TIME.

If they INDICATE or Prove the Eggs and Derelict have been there for a LONG TIME and that David did-not/could-not have Created those Xenomorphs, then i hope they come up with some Explanation to WHAT/HOW it is that David had Created Similar.  And hopefully allow them to Follow what happens to the Covenant and allow David to then Evolve his Xenomorphs to a Different Form or make them more Superior in some way...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

S.M

Aug-02-2019 4:15 PM

Everything mentioed in the OP supports what we know - Jockey is an Engineer in a suit; while maintaining the ambiguity of how the Derelict got there and when.

 

I don't see a problem.

BigDave

Aug-02-2019 4:29 PM

I think Certainly it helps to clear that up... and as daliens had said this as Canon covers up the Derelict Signal prior to Hadleys Hope.

It throws us a Stick to open up the Mystery for debate by Virtue of inferring a 16ft Pilot, and that it appears to be there a LONG TIME... but these are by No Means a indication to Disprove the Prequel route that Ridley Scott was taking, as the Conclusion could introduce a 16 Ft Engineer and maybe explain WHY it looked so Aged for not being there for that Long.

But it also at present gives hope that the Prequel Route of Alien Covenant cant lead to ALIEN as far as Derelict/Space Jockey.

so as SM had pointed out accepting the Novel does-not really Effect the Outcome of the Derelict Event.. this still remains a Mystery at Present.

And Perhaps thats how it should Remain ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Aug-02-2019 10:33 PM

This is why Isolation works. It fits in with the series without interfering with the movies. 

chli

Aug-03-2019 12:39 AM

Regarding “the hole”, I think it’s too big and symmetrical (a square or rectangle) to have been made by a facehugger (climbing up and burning through the floor). Wouldn’t it have been much smaller, just so the facehugger could squeeze through? It’s big enough for people with spacesuits to climb through, perhaps even big enough for Engineers? Another possibility would be that there was a hatch which has either been opened or removed (this could suggest sabotage).

And another thing: If there's a connection to LV-223, wouldn't there be urns (filled with pathogen) instead of eggs in the cargo hold?

Leto

Aug-03-2019 1:29 AM

And another thing: If there's a connection to LV-223, wouldn't there be urns (filled with pathogen) instead of eggs in the cargo hold?

No. Just no. Urns turning into eggs - is more silly than egg bombing. Just imagine and laugh.

dk

Aug-03-2019 3:05 AM

I think the idea for the hole was that it was made by a face hugger or burster from the Jockey. It was a clean and large hole though. If the bugger did it, I would expect to see some sort of trail. Sabotage of some type seems plausible.. But by what or whom?

Based on current posts, it seems reasonable that the prequels are pretty far removed from the Quadrilogy. 

That hole idea is important though. It looks too perfect- I doubt the movie folks thought much about it at the time.

hox

Aug-03-2019 4:24 AM

@Leto, I don't believe chli was suggesting that urns would turn into eggs.

BigDave

Aug-03-2019 8:13 AM

I think if we can be Honest Movies have Flaws and some IN-Continuities and ALIEN was not alone with this, things change during Production and then some things are NOT completely thought out...  a sometimes things are added as Plot Convenience but then they are NOT that well Planed, because its Considered they dont really matter, there could be just Small Details that should be just OVERSIGHT.

Now i dont want to change this to another Egg Hold debate so i am only just pointing out that LIKELY that Set-Production began with the Notion of a Separate Egg Silo, which was Merged as Part of the Ship due to Budget/Time Restraints...  which then you needed a PLOT CONVENIENCE to get from the PILOT Room to the CARGO Hold below and this is LIKELY were the HOLE was Created, as a Plot Convenience, where they maybe just Never gave what caused it much Thought at the time.

Some Good points about the Hole Size/Shape, you would assume a Chest Buster or Face Hugger would NOT make such a Hole.   Even the Chest Buster was to Scale with the Space Jockey so 250% Larger than a Human Chest Buster i am NOT sure it would make such a Hole.

The area where the Hole had happened is like a Layered Hole prior to the Acid Burn.

So a way that HOLE would make sense would be IF the area was Filled with Acid like substance that Filled the area to a Level before it Started to Dissolve through the Floor!

Considering this as a Good Explanation could lead us to Speculate that the HOLE was made on Purpose, but by WHO and WHEN?

It would Likely be after the Derelict had been there and the Space Jockey Chest Burster, as that makes more sense than the Hole being there Before the Space Jockey got to his Seat..

Which i why i STARTED this TOPIC were we could discus a Idea about a Event that happened after the Space Jockey Event, indicating the HOLE had happened at a Latter Point.

However.... Sabotage?  that cant be RULED-OUT for example, maybe the Space Jockey had arrived to his Pilot Chair and saw that HOLE and realized that would Compromise his Mission so then he went off to Quarantine the Ship on LV-426.   The Questions this would raise would be....

HOW does a Face Hugger infect a Masked Engineer/Being (they can but we see NO Evidence of the Mask being Damaged unlike Kanes).

WOULD the Engineer/Being be so Stupid to walking about the Room with NO MASK after encountering the HOLE?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-03-2019 8:28 AM

"And another thing: If there's a connection to LV-223, wouldn't there be urns (filled with pathogen) instead of eggs in the cargo hold?"

This is a VERY valid point at the Time of Prometheus.

Certainly there was a Connection... Alien Engineers and Genesis did-not have Urns as Cargo they had various Holds that contained Variations of Xenomorph Eggs.  There was Urns elsewhere but they Contained a Method (Nano-Scarabs) that would Pass On traits of the Xenomorph.

Prometheus was Ambiguous, it could only lead us to Conclude that maybe some of the Experiments were LOADED onto the Derelict Class Ships... or that Eggs were taken from the Derelict Class Ships to Experiment with.

We have seen those Urns can Leak, also we see they can Disintegrate (Alien Covenant) under certain conditions.  So we CANT rule out the Urns Leaking and Dissolving and being Infected and the Result is those Eggs, as the Neomorph Spores likely Resulted from Leaked Black Goo.

However i would FIND such a Random Event that would lead to HOW those Eggs seemed to be Arranged in more Uniform Rows... as NOT Plausible.

Ridley Scott had Confirmed the Space Jockey Event back in 2012 he then further added more detail in 2013 as he SUGGESTED that something in the CARGO-HOLD had Evolved and got to the Pilot.

This could be indicated as Urns that become Eggs, even via a more Plausible Explanation i gave above this is a bit ODD. 

It could also be considered that he had been infected by something from the URNS elsewhere that had Evolved into a Organism and Infected the Space Jockey.... this would maybe have us Wonder if this Organism then Burnt the Hole down to the Cargo Hold and LAID the Eggs.

Again i DONT buy into that because of HOW the Eggs were in Uniform Rows to a degree and the Blue-Myst.

The ONLY way that makes sense is the Eggs had been Transported to the Cargo Hold at some point.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-03-2019 8:48 AM

Another thing thats maybe a Oversight...

In the Alien Isolation Derelict Mission, there is a LOT of Equipment/Gear at the Scene, these were NOT brought on by Marlow and his Team!

Yet Dallas and his TEAM did-not bring No-Where near as much with them either!

Merely Oversight, Inconsistency? (Franchise has a Number of them).  And so Games Developers could make same Mistakes.

OR had someone else been there after the Nostromo and before the Anesidora?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Aug-03-2019 1:55 PM

Well, the hole could be a “plot convenience” but there might as well be a ramp down to the cargo hold just around the corner (which in fact it is in some of the novels). The hole makes sense in the light of when Alien was made.

When Alien was made, the Space Jockey was a “fossilized” (long dead) extraterrestrial creature. This being didn’t notice the hole or was too much in a hurry to do anything about it. He could then have sat in his seat when a face-hugger crawls up through the hole and attaches itself to his face. When the pilot wakes up, later on, he starts to get chest pain and crash lands on the nearest planet (or moon) which happens to be LV-426.

However, with Prometheus, the Space Jockey turns into a suit and a mask and the problem arises how could a facehugger attach itself to the Engineer’s face without any damage to the mask?

Another thing: the eggs in the egg chamber aren’t “placed” neatly in rows like you would do, as a gardener, if you grow vegetables e.g. The ramps are placed symmetrically but not the eggs.

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