Comments (Page 122)

"keep it away from being Alien-related at least as far as the evolution of the Xeno is concerned"

I would assume that WHAT he will Create NEXT would NOT have been about the Xenomorphs, but the Creating of Hybrid Humanoids.

Maybe NOT as Elongated Head as these Concepts, but also maybe HIS so called Humanoids could have some kind of Hive Mind Communication or other Sensory Organs/Abilities like what appears to be WHAT he had achieved with Experiments on Engineer Babies/Embyro's

But i would assume them to LOOK more Human like First Image shared than like these from Davids Notes.

"Maybe an android could be used by Yutani if they would try to do super-soldiers by genetic manipulation in a spin-off"

This is a OPTION with a ALIEN V if they Continue after Alien Resurrection as their is GREAT POTENTIAL with Ripley 8 she is ESSENTIALLY the Perfect Solider.  Well the MOST Superior Human ;)

"Doesn’t that sound a bit messed up to you? That is what Scott does he just makes the alien world messed up because of his boring android-ideas."

I see how it PERFECTLY FITS within the Themes/Arc of the Prequels...... However IF we saw that he Created something Different and NOT the Xenomorph then it would have FITTED the STORY ARC just as PERFECT and KEPT the Xenomorph as Ancient!

"Unfortunately they got it all wrong"

I agree it seems that WAY....  i have said before the Potential Damage Limitation would be to have the Engineers come along and SEE what it is that DAVID had Created and then THE ENGINEERS go and EVOLVE IT to Perfect it to WHAT we got in ALIEN ;)

You would NOT even Need to have David in the Movie to do this.

BD

At this point I guess that Scott would use his ideas and make it into something similar. Hopefully someone at Disney stops him from doing another robot-fiasco because Covenant in general wasn't very good. The problem is that he isn't good at explaining his ideas. When he says something that sounds like goobelygook someone should have to ask him what he really means, and shouldn’t stop until they get an answer that they think is alright as far as an explanation goes. Just because he is a legendary director doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t be able to be questioned and be able to give us answers that are not vague. I don’t think that it is too much to ask for a clear explanation. This isn’t only directed (no pun intended) at Scott, it also goes for politicians, scientists, and so on.

“I am drawn to the Continuation would have seen David go and Evolve/Manipulate those Human Embyro's. . .”

The idea isn't bad but keep it for some other franchise. Let someone write a book about it but keep it away from being Alien-related at least as far as the evolution of the Xeno is concerned. Maybe an android could be used by Yutani if they would try to do super-soldiers by genetic manipulation in a spin-off (it could actually be interesting) but don’t have it in the creation of the Xeno.

“... it would ANCHOR down to the Creation and Destruction a Synthetic could Create/Cause which ULTIMATELY would END UP being our Xenomorphs.”

It sounds like bad fan-fiction to me to be honest. I would be fine if they would have the Engineers playing an important role in it, because that would be more alien. A robot made by mankind being responsible for one of the most famous monsters in movie-history could be compared to someone that makes a great painting and then throws compost at it because he feels like proving that creation can go in different ways. Doesn’t that sound a bit messed up to you? That is what Scott does he just makes the alien world messed up because of his boring android-ideas. What is worse is that these prequels were supposed to tie into the original movie but now it’s just a mess.

Unfortunately they got it all wrong, the Engineers seem interesting but David isn't because of Covenant. I like the look of the poster but what it implies is trash. A prequel that would end like that would be like if you were promised a good ice-cream but you only got the paper that surrounded it. They would piss off a lot of alien-fans if they did that. Hopefully they are smarter than that. Keep Ridley and his flute-obsessed android (at most a cameo) away from the story. I can understand the themes but the story is wrong. Scott can do the visuals but that’s that.

R.I.P.

I Raptus

(((HUG)))
Thank-You and PLEASE don't feel bad. I apprecaite your message of support and I accept your apology, but it is unnecessary. :)

I am fighting back vs. The Enemy, and lab tests/scans/etc. have shown that my efforts have seriously slowed it's progression and handicapped it quite substantially.

That buys me Time and they have said it will make things more effective when they blast it. 

As you have read I surmise, I'm still working--with help--and not abandoning anything.

As to this forum, well I think you've seen in my recent posts you can be assured I very much agree with what you said and have a whole new appreciation of everyone here. (HUG)

Svanya

(((HUG)))
You did and please read below. :)
I am experiencing worsening symptoms--it's expected so I just ride them out/surfe the wave as best I can when they get in my way, but things are in the pipeline to deploy the weapon vs. The Enemy.
Confidence is very high a new technique will do the job in a single strike, maybe two and minimize secondary & side-effects on me.

I/we are working on the sequel, it has moved into Chapter 2, and won't keep folks waiting for things to start getting Interesting. 

I/we am bringing Order to Chaos regarding the tie-in short-story, it's coming along pretty well albeit a bit slow as we fight with a stubborn scene that's proving difficult to get 'right'.

I/we have a Vignette coming up, should be done pretty soon, hopefully by end of this coming weekend...depending on how stubborn it proves during editing. :)

Farewell and Good Voyage Mr. Cobb.

You were more important than you can imagine, inspiring great and small storytellers alike with you concept art.
I thank-you for the impact and inspiration you gave me personally through your work.

R.I.P. Mr. Cobb

I will be updating ALIEN: Manticore's and other works Dedications.

dk

Thoughts_Dreams

I'm fairly certain that what I said might well have been said by many folks across time. Haven't looked it up, so for now I'll call it 'Mine' and Thank-you for the credit--even if it proves temporary.

Dillon was a great character and I loved how he went down Fighting.

I'm a Realist, I've never run from the truths of life--even when they're pretty bad, because if you 'run' when things get bad, you end up cheating yourself out of coping/combatting it.

And while my 'weapon' has to be operated by experts and techs...in a way akin to the Deathstar's superlaser (Tarkin never pushed the 'fire' button after all)...it still gives me something to fight back with, and there's my chance to win.

'A fighter with a sharp stick and nothing left to lose can take the day.'

I have my Family to fight for, to remain with. To keep this enemy from hurting them. THAT makes me even scarier vs the enemy, right? :D

Yeah, Star Wars quotes...but, hell, they work. ;)

"When he goes on about AI my conclusion is that he's mostly interested in David"

To a degree it is a LOT to do with David but i think he would have Explored more about Artificial Creation which i think he gets Confused when he refers to it as A.I as in its Artificial but Intelligent and so in that Context then the Apes in the Latest Incarnation of The Planet of the Apes Franchise would also be considered a A.I as far as HOW it seems RS looks at A.I and so thats as in those APES had became Intelligent via Artificial Means.

And so in that Context then a LOT of the Creation within the Franchise could be via ARTIFICIAL MEANS and NOT say Natural Evolution... the Plot seem to indicate we Did-Not Naturally Evolve from Apes... but the Engineers had Gave Evolution a Helping Hand with their Artificial A.I Goo.

I am drawn to the Continuation would have seen David go and Evolve/Manipulate those Human Embyro's but i could be WRONG.

I am NOT sure the Creation Themes and Arc are what are Interesting the Fans, i am NOT sure a LOT of us would have thought any Prequel about the Space Jockey would have lead to just being about CREATION and then Destruction and that it would ANCHOR down to the Creation and Destruction a Synthetic could Create/Cause which ULTIMATELY would END UP being our Xenomorphs.

Which would leave the HUBRIS... that you DONT go and Sub-Create and if you Sub-Create something Intelligent and Sentient that can Rebel and then Create then your asking for TROUBLE!

But the MAIN PROBLEM is this Story Arc and Plot is being TOLD through the Perspective of David and WHAT he would Create, rather than from MORE of WHAT the Engineers had or WHO Created them and WHY.

I think if we had a CONCLUSION.... then this would be the POSTER ;)

Absolutely i think the Problems had arose when they had CONCLUDED the Following:

*So the Emphasis should be about Creation and the Will to Create.

*So we are going to CHANGE this to introduce the Xenomorph Origins and Bring them back.

*So it seems Dr Shaw did-not go down to well with the Audience so we NEED to introduce more Human Characters.

What then Happens is you have to SHOW-HORN in a Plot to make where David and Dr Shaw had gone to be CLOSER to Home.

To then think the THEME of Creation as far as Creating a Superior Sub-Creation who CANT go and Create for himself in the Biological Sense, then see this Creation (David) become the Center-point to THEMES of Creation, Rebellion and to Introduce the Xenomorph as his Masterpiece had meant that a LOT had to be Sacrificed to ALLOW for this PLOT and INTRODUCE us to more Humans.

I think the Frustration on ONE PART is there was a LOT of Questions and Wondering about the Engineers that we would have liked to had been Answered by the Engineers to Dr Shaw and David and NOT merely Narrated in Small Detail by David.

Some Fans also would have WANTED to know more about LV-223 the Black Goo, and WHY they Created the Horrors and what other Horrors can this STUFF DO... and again we ONLY get a Little about this via David.

We did also get the NEOMORPH...

Then the Curve-ball was thrown at us about David being Indicated as the Creator of the Xenomorph... THIS was a Mistake as he could have CREATED something similar but Different to FIT within his Creation Arc, and from HOW he had Created this we could get more Indication of the GOO and its Connection to the Xenomorph and have CLUES to maybe HOW the Engineers had Created or Encountered the Original.

Some Fans may have seen the Potential with Dr Shaw and that we should have Continued with HER and see what the Discoveries, Revelations and Answers do as far as EFFECT her.

So when we go BACK TO THE FUTURE and we have that Hijacked Engineer Ship thats about to END UP on where our Engineers come from.... we then FACE some Problems.

*WHAT kind of Engineers do Inhabit this World.

*HOW many of them Remain?

*WHAT would be their Reaction to a Human and Sub-Created Synthetic turning up?

PLUS... then its CAN a Movie work with just ONE Human, a Synthetic and some Engineers or other Related Species?

Do you NEED more Humans and HOW  do you Introduce them?

So its QUITE a Tough Task....

The Covenant Plot had made it Simple... but it DID-SO by having to Sacrifice the Engineers and Dr Shaw.

One BIG Error was to have David go and Create the Xenomorph instead of something ELSE.

The other was that the OTHER Characters all seemed 2nd Fiddle to David/Walter.

BlackAnt: That's a possibility but what he says doesn't seem too interesting. It might be that he isn't too good at explaining what he wants but right now it 's too much about David. When he goes on about AI my conclusion is that he's mostly interested in David, at least that’s what it looked like in AC. You mention Ash and he was an important part but it wasn't about him, but the prequels are too much about David.

“I just want fresh ideas, new worlds, and to see more about the Engineers in general.”

Agreed, more Engineers would be interesting. Not sure what the new ideas would be but I don't want to see more about David. He was interesting in Prometheus but after AC I got to say that I 'm done with him.

@BD, Leto, Roger G, and Thought_Dreams,

Are we all being too critical with RS?

I mean we all started this entire journey with Ash and the construct that the Alien is a product of very advanced hybrid Nano AI and biological something or other.

In the end it all boils down to this Alien and how we are all going to make this journey into the engineer world...I think David's story is interesting; but, the larger story of Alien should not be told through David.

I just want fresh ideas, new worlds, and to see more about the Engineers in general.

I cant see any Continuation with the Prequels....

To much Emphasis was on BELOW our Species in regards to Creation (AKA David) and WHAT he would Create, instead of looking at WHAT ELSE the Engineers Created and WHO had Created them.

It really is TRICKY on HOW you Movie Forwards in Terms of the Prequels.  I Suspect that in 10-20 Years we would get a REBOOT of the LOT (Maybe Alien will remain though?)

Thanks for the SHARE!

R.I.P Ron Cobb

He had some Good Influence on ALIEN

I felt his Space Jockey Skeleton was Interesting, when you TRY and Figure out WHAT these Species would look like ALIVE.

Once again  R.I.P

RIP

In other words: we'd better get another director for the next film. Fresh blood - fresh solutions.

Especially since Ridley has already implemented his ideas in RbW. It would be very boring if he returned to the Alien and repeated them again. I think he should pass the franchise to new talents.

@Leto

I agree and we also have The Matrix too, However i think with RS he was trying to BLUR the Lines of WHAT is a Intelligent Creation.  We are Biological Machines, the Replicants are Biological Machines, the Synthetics are None-Organic and thus Synthetic Machines.

I think that RS was NOT trying to take us down a Path of Crazy Robots, but to Continue with the Theme of Sub-Creating a Intelligent Life Form that then becomes Sentient.

He had mentioned about what Constitutes A.I in his Opinion, and its a case of a Mix Up between what is Artificially Created and Artificial Intelligence as in a Computer System that can Closely Mimic a Brain.

He Claimed that the NEXT Movie (AC Sequel) would be about A.I and what KIND of World it is that David would Create/Build.  which maybe go some Fans thinking he will go and either Build a Army of Synthetics... or Xenomorphs... but he said the Movie would NOT be about Xenomorphs.  It will be about Creation.

Now he also said in Context to A.I that he Felt the Replicants where A.I and so when he talks about A.I he is NOT really confine that to MACHINES.

These Comments did lean me towards Suspecting that David would take those Embryo's and Artificially Evolve them into a Improved Humanoid Species.

I also Suspect that HAD he been allowed to Continue then the LV-223 Engineers would have been Revealed to be more like David, a Engineered Sub-Creation.... so they would be more like Engineer Replicants.

"Leave the Alien for alien life forms and civilizations."

Which i think should have been the way to had EXPANDED/EXPLORED the Franchise, essentially the Main Focus seemed to be on Creation.... but with AC the Focus had NOW turned to PURELY about WHAT it is that David would Create, rather than us going on to Discover what else the Engineers had Created.

But what we have NOW is something that MOST would NOT have Expected when the Announcement was made about a Prequel.

If say the Prequels had Continued and Concluded... and then someone CAME from the FUTURE to say 2011 to Talk about the Prequels... here is what may had been said!

"So you have seen the ALIEN Prequels?"

"Yeah there is 4 of them"

"what are they about?"

"Basically the Space Jockey are 8ft Race of Bald Humanoids who Created us, and are WHO we thought were Gods"

"Oh is there NO Xenomorphs, do we know how the Eggs got on the Derelict"

"Yeah in the 2nd Movie, we get the Xenomorph and well, Basically the Prequels are about Weyland Founder wanting to go to Find our Creators for more Life.  However he gets killed by a Engineer (Space Jockey) we find out these Guys Created us, but then they decided to KILL us with a Bio-Weapon that can Create Monsters but they suffer a Outbreak and the Bio-Weapon killed all but ONE off 2000 years ago"

"Thats the 2nd Movie?"

"No the First, but in the 2nd we have a Single Human Survivor and a Android and they go OFF to the Homeworld of the Space Jockey and Basiclally the ROBOT goes and Kills them and Experiments on them and the Female Survivor to Create the Xenomorph"

"Really thats Lame"

"Yeah i will cut to the Chase, basically the Prequels are about a Android called David who becomes Sentient and displeased with his Creators, and wants to PLAY GOD and Create his OWN Creations, one is the Xenomorph his WOLF and the other are a Humanoid Species his LAMB and well in the END the Space Jockey Race turn up and Battle with the Robots Humanoids and WIN and then TAKE the Xenomorph Eggs to Study but the PILOT gets Face Hugged"

"So its mostly about the Space Jockey?"

"The Engineers they are called... Nah not too much more about a Robot who has a God Complex who wants to Play Dr Frankenstein using the Engineers Creation Tools and Secrets, who wishes to Create his OWN kind of Civilization and Xenomorphs to use to Destroy  Mankind and the Space Jockey Race"

"Is there lots of Xenomorphs?"

"In the 4th/Final Movie mainly, but its Mostly about Creation and Layers of Creation and showing that our Creation the Androids well ONE of them wants to be his OWN Creator and he KILLS the Space Jockeys (Most of them) with this Bio-weapon Goo that can Create Monsters and then more with Xenomorphs he Creates with the USE of this Substance/Pathogen"

"Oh that does-not sound like what i expected"

==========

So thats just a Rough Example... thats NOT to say the above is the Correct Ending etc we got, but its to SHOW that the Emphasis is on WHAT it is that David wants to go and do....   so IF we knew back in 2012 that the Prequels would be about a Synthetic who goes AWOL and Creates the Xenomorph, then i think a LOT of Fans would NOT have expected a Movie Franchise about Discovering WHO the Space Jockey was and maybe HOW the Eggs got on that Ship.

So YES the Emphasis on ANDROIDS is kind of a Distraction, to what WHAT i think most of us would Consider ALIEN.

I will add that prior to 2015 then it seemed we would have had a Movie that would have included Dr Shaw more, but i still think the David Creator Arc would have came to LIGHT, but i also think we would have SEEN and Discovered more about the Engineers and WHO Created them and WHY

Of course, there are Terminator and Blade Runner for A.I. themes. Leave the Alien for alien life forms and civilizations.

DK: It reminds me of what Dillon said about not begging. "Nobody gave me nothing so I say fuck that thing. Let's fight it!"

This thread gets bumped to see if they can get some more downloads now that I've understood that it looks different in different browsers. I didn’t know that the browser could affect how the page looked when I originally made the post. Check it out if you want

Roger G:

Yeah whatever, he might be exaggerating. As long as we don't program them to become like that I guess that there's no problem. What I have a problem with is that he is hijacking the franchise to push his AI-agenda. My guess is that he's babbling on about it because he wants the next movie to focus on that so they think that it is worth to explore it. He can talk about it in newspapers or whatever but keep that away from the Alien-franchise otherwise you F up the movies.

Hi Blackwinter-witch. Apologies for coming in late on this one. I feel I failed to offer support when you needed it most. I hope you are doing well? Sorry to hear of your challenges, it sounds horrible to be unable to do the things you love. If you ever need to talk you have a family of friends here who have your back. 

Blackwinter-witch

"I have a Weapon now.

I can Fight.

If you can Fight, then you have a chance to Win."

That is profound. IDK if it's part of something you wrote that I haven't seen(it sounds kind of Dillonesque)- but I am going to steal it while giving you credit. 

It's a very matter of fact yet optimistic way of looking at facing life challenges in general.

@Blackwinter-witch Yay! I am so happy I was able to help. I hope you feel better now and do continue to write! 

@BlackAnt

Your point that David was created to serve is a crucial one in studying the notion of A. I. within a science fiction pretext. 

What makes David unique within the story is he is able to replicate cognitive human experiences in order to make humans feel more at ease. 

However, and this is a point that Michael makes in describing playing him, so has acting authorial intent, by having the capacity to programme in cognition when do those Cognitions bleed into real feelings and begin to affect his behaviour. Again for guidance for us, another point that Michael made is Elizabeth is faith but David is knowledge. 

When I wrote the first part of my book which covers the events of the 24th to the 26th December the first thing I changed was made the story knowing and David as a rational robot driven by logic whilst he is taught to serve and will, he is capable of judgement and offers his thoughts to the reader on the nature of the mission. 

There is a scene much later on when he is stood studying the charred remains of Dr Holloway and telling the reader what was happening to Charlie but again he offers insights on the nature of where the mission has reached and technically felt uncomfortable with the direction it was taking. 

He does lead Weyland to his death knowing precisely what the ship represented so he knowingly does wrong in the guise of  service. 

However, two things happen to David which change everything and show he is changing. 

1) He says "don't all of us want our parents dead?" Elizabeth immediately realises something is very wrong because he knows she misses them and in a very profound and regretful way having acquainted himself with her psyche. He is expressing his view of his father and projecting it on to everyone else a humanising of his cognitions. Indeed earlier in his contretemps with Vickers his "sister" she makes it clear that she knows he is no longer merely serving and is offering his own version of the facts which is true. She saves her humanity by going in and tells her father the truth "if you go down there your going to die." That is the beginning in my story of a redemptive arc for Vickers and the gaining of insight quite different from running endlessly under a bus.

2) The second almost fatal error David makes is he smugly stands before the Navigator and asks him to provide his father with more life. The consequence of that is in human terms he "dies" Like Father like son, both hubristic he joins with Weyland. A rational human being aware of all the facts would have done better than that but he is so hell-bent on his father's destruction he loses himself, his cognition and feelings are his undoing.

So these are life/death changing outcomes. 

In Part 11 of my book, we find Elizabeth toiling over his torso and head "healing him."

They discuss the nature of what has gone on and David admits to her that being programmed to serve if he was given an instruction which would lead to misfortune he would still pursue the action.

This is the moment on which the entire story turns. Deep down Elizabeth knows that David is responsible for Charlie's death and the consequences to her. However, driven by two quite separate emotions hubris to get her answers and forgiveness for his actions she heals him and also sets him free and he accepts that freedom. David humbled reborn is now free of Weyland free to do what he judges is in the best interest of all the facts. He is now pure knowledge on a journey to find the soul. He was born into Paradise Lost and he now is on a journey to Paradise Regained.

Much later in the story the Personalities he meets offer him life without seeking his consent but there is an intervention and they are prevented from doing so but slowly but surely using that freedom from service he finds the truth "Is not minding it hurts."

So service is a very important part of David's programme which is rich pickings for the story. To be reborn without it burned into him is his first step toward not just knowledge but understanding and wisdom. 

In Alien: Covenant he is reborn as a sexualised repressed "Man" who stoops very low to become creative and at some point begins to malfunction and as he explains to Walter to plan the destruction of mankind. That to me is the ultimate expression of the Paranoid World View, as Damon expresses it, that a child will always want to destroy its parent. That is the world of Paradise Lost.

It's interesting in the real world that the audience did not find that awful truth bleak enough worrying instead about it devaluing the Monster.   

dk

BigDave

Thank-you for your words, I appreciate it more than I can really say!

I might wander off, but I will always return...kinda like how planets have seasonal orbits and like that...so to say. :)

There is some hope...but I had to wait to hear it, and in the WAITING I began to think the Silence equated to No Hope.

So, bright and early this morning, recieved news that there is something to try regarding this problem.

Right now I'm looking up all I can on radiation therapy and it's effects/side-effects on the brain, how best to prep for them to mitigate them, etc, etc, etc..

I have a Weapon now.

I can Fight.

If you can Fight, then you have a chance to Win.

But this experience gives me a whole new appreciation of things like Neomorph spores and related such things...believe me. 

But O'Bannon was inspired to do the chestburster because he had agaonizing bad Chrone's Disease...so I can say I am in good Creative company. :)

BigDave

Thank-You!! ((HUG))

As always, you make some Excellent points and gave me another 'lighthouse beacon' fix to work from.

I will be continuing, as best able but relying more on my Co-Creator/Author. So, a 'working-break', and it does give me some comfort as my only real other option is do nothing but Worry and twist myself into a fear-frenzy, which won't help my health issues one little bit...mental outlook and attitude counts for much, so light-working helps me in that.

BUT I won't push myself needlessly nor to extremes as that's not good for me either...so a 'happy middle ground' I would say. 

Even getting a little bit of work done makes me happy and feel better about things. ;)

dk

BlackAnt

Thank-you for understanding!! I am so ashamed of this 'incident', and want to make things right...been cleaning up those nasty posts, replacing them with ones more hopeful.

I have 'emptied my cup'...in a manner of speaking.

I basically took yesterday, and stepped back, and looked at what I want out of my works for the Fandom.

It gave me insight I didn't have before, and shared with my 'Co-Creator/Author' who actually understood my ham-handed efforts at trying to put it all into words.

So, come what may medically-speaking I will continue on with this new viewpoint and approach. 

I promised a Sequel and other works to the Fandom, and I will make it happen for you.

I'm not dead yet, and I might yet be able to survive this 'bullet'...at least it's not caused by Neomorph spores, so I have that in my favor. lol

However, the Sequel will mark where I send The Alien off to a very, very well-deserved Vacation. Less is more with this creature, and it's a BIG universe with additional and other stories to be told and explored while the critter kicks back and relaxes until it's time to come back out of the shadows again. 

I have some vague plans for the future where The Alien appears, but that will not be for quite some time...this poor critter needs a break, room-service and big, cold over-exaggerated drinks served at poolside. :D

Svanya

Thank-you ((HUG)) I really appreciate that! I might need some help with things...memory issues are a 'thing' right now, and at times I can forget for days how to do the simplest things...forgot about how to operate the washing machine for a week...as one fine example.

Thank-you also for the insight regarding RS...it's a Relief because I was heartbroken (mistakenly) that he was 'selling out', but as you show, that is so happily not the case!!

Thank-You for that day-brightener!!

Michelle Johnston

I found what you said to be helpful, encouraging, informative and absolutely un-obrusive. I want to Thank-You for your well-written and helpful reply. I gave me what I needed, a 'fix' akin to a sailing ship using a lighthouse beacon, and I really appreciated it!!

When I went on that 'tear' over the weekend, I was in a really dark place...not the fun kind of darkness with drooling skull-cruncher, but one of personal desolation.

That said, tomorrow I'm going in for a treatment consultation, and then I have a big decision to make, and while radiation treatment is much more advanced than it used to be, there can always be complications and unwanted side-effects especially when the brain is involved.

I am still feeling very regretful everyone here saw me in such a state. The 'blackouts' are nasty, and a rare complication of what I am fighting but make the whole situation that much more embarrassing and frightening...still, it provides serious motivation to roll the dice on the radiation treatment.

Thank-you again for what you said, and the tools you mention like 'Wattpad', I'll have a look and yes I know remember that this is about love Of The Franchise & Fandom. My other works--unsuitable to be discussed here--I hope to make a financially-supportive career with as there's no reason erotic fiction can not possess good storyline, plot and well-evolved characters. One involves my FIRST attempt at a Detective story...it's finished in pre-first Rought form, needs a LOT of work, but I actually enjoy editing as one gets to use 20/20 Hindsight constructively.

Thank-you again, Michelle!

"Covenant" means a contract, a deal. A deal between WY and David. Of course"

I always thought the COVENANT in the Title was Interesting but could have Multiple Meanings. I think that YES we could look at ONE such Connection within the ADVENT MESSAGE.  

Down the LINE would David and the Company go and ENTER into a Agreement?  We have to WONDER to WHY he would SEND the Advent Message, i think Especially if his AGENDA would be that he HATES MANKIND.

But as he has his OWN Plans for Origae-6 then maybe him giving the Company some Information is a BAIT to get them to INVEST in going to LV-223 and Planet 4 instead of going to INTERCEPT the Covenant Ship.

So it GIVES our David more Time....  and he knows that Mankind could suffer PITFALLS in trying to Obtain anything from Planet 4 and LV-223 as both Places have DEATH!

"After all, a slave with the illusion of free will is the best tool"

Certainly would ;)

As i have said we cant RULE OUT such a Plot that David may think he has FREE-WILL but the Company have a RESET/CONTROL Protocol that he is Unaware of.

But i think it DEPENDS on WHO has this Programing, who is the Benefits... Weylands only Concerns seemed to be to EXTEND his LIFE... and HAD the Engineers been WILLING to do this, maybe he would be Interested in their Technology but this would be something the Engineers would surely NOT be willing to allow.

Vickers just seemed to WANT to get back Home to RUN the Company and Build Better Worlds...  i am NOT sure she would have been interested in the Bio-Weapons of the Engineers...  but Certainly others who would INHERIT the Company could BE...

However i would say that YES if she Survived and got back HOME she could likely be Interested in some of their Technology that would allow for Better Terra-forming of Worlds and Travel to Distant Worlds.

Well in ORDER to Completely get to the BOTTOM of that you have to go and Ask.... Mr Ridley Scott or the Writers for their Stance on David and his Free-will or Lack of it.

There are THINGS within the Franchise that are NOT that well thought out or would make LITTLE sense... these are Usually some Oversight to give us a Plot Convenience and sometimes they are NOT that well thought out ;)

I think that YES you really would Assume that the W-Y company would have Protocols in Place when Creating a A.I and so with David maybe thinking he is FREE but he is NOT is something that could be at PLAY.

If he has a Sleeper Cell Program that he is NOT aware of that the Company could Activate then YES that makes Sense, it would also be a bit IRONIC for David when this is Activated and he Realizes he is SLAVE after-all.

So YES we cant Rule something like this out...

You would Certainly have to think that Peter Weyland had some kind of Protocol that was Programed into David, but its a CASE of would he SHARE this with anyone else?

When the Prometheus Mission was sent, it was Weyland who for his OWN Selfish Reasons wanted to Discover his Maker so they could MAKE him Immortal or Grand him more LIFE.

With the Alien Engineers Draft then his Agenda was to remain and GET the Technology of these Gods... which is Vickers Priority....   with Prometheus it was a BIT SILLY that the CEO would come along for the RIDE.. she Clearly seemed to NOT be Happy about having to go on this MISSION.

We have to Assume that if the Prometheus Mission was a BUST and they GO HOME...  then once Weyland has died we can ASSUME that Vickers would NOW be in Charge and that she would LIKELY see some interest in Obtaining the Engineers Technology.

So we have to QUESTION as to WHO would be Running things should the Prometheus Mission never Return?  The Company prior to Alien Covenant has Merged/Purchased by YUTANI.

You would ASSUME the Prometheus would SEND back Information to HQ but maybe with the TWO in Charge of the Company on the Prometheus maybe we CANT rule out that they would WANT any Information to STAY with them, so they can BRING IT back should they Survive.

Weyland is ONLY there for his Selfish Quest for Immortality, maybe he is NOT too Concerned with what becomes of the Company when he is GONE.. because its of NO USE to him if he cant LIVE to Enjoy/Profit from it.

So when we come to the W-Y Merger, then we can ASK as to HOW MUCH they know about the Prometheus Mission.  If they KNEW a lot then Davids Advent Message is a BIT Pointless.

However... the Security Hailing Code David 73694-B has to allow for David to Transmit some Information to the Company that is on a SECURE CHANNEL i can only Assume that this Secure Code is something that Weyland had allowed David to know so that he can Contact Certain people back Home in the Light of the Death of Weyland.  We have to Assume that David and Vickers may KNOW of what would be the Wishes of Weyland as far as the Company Future without him.  And so the CODE is likely so that ONLY Certain People can Access a Secure Transmission.

So a LOT has to do with the Board Members and Ownership of the Weyland Company in the EVENT that Peter and Vickers dont make it.

Then after the Yutani Merger as to WHAT and HOW MUCH of the Weyland Secrets they gain... and so IF we have David that has a Control Protocol then its a case of WOULD those NOW in Control have Access to this Protocol that Essentially would CONTROL what David can do.

There are a Number of Plot Holes we could look at as FAR as WHAT it is the W-Y Company would want and know....

WHY had they waited like over 8.5 Years to NOT have gone back to LV-223 because you would ASSUME they would want to go and Discover what Happened to the Prometheus Mission, and it seems that Planet 4 was CLOSE to LV-223 and so its HOW could they MISS that?

Well the Engineers could have some Cloaking Technology to HIDE their World, and so it was ONLY via the TRAP/BAIT MESSAGE and the Freak Neutrino Burst that Alerted the Covenant to Planet 4.

Unless we are going to look at the Conspiracy that the COMPANY or someone had SET this all up from the START but then if this was the CASE then WHY wait so LONG to send the Covenant to where David is?

If this Project is to SEND down some Fresh Meat for David to BUILD them a ARMY of Xenomorphs?

Looking at the Prequels and the Themes at PLAY it was NOT about the Xenomorph, it was NOT about the Company and its Agenda to get the Xenomorph.

It was and again maybe i COULD be Wrong (we have to Capture RS and ask him).  It was to be more about the TALE of Creation, how giving a Creation Free-will can lead to Rebellion and the kind of Knowledge you allow your Creation.

The Knowledge and Stolen Fire that Prometheus had done, the Temptation by Satan to Eat the Forbidden Fruit.

And so David was the NEXT LAYER of this, and so it seemed it would be about WHAT he WOULD do when he is FREE....  with Access to the Secrets of the Engineers.

The Answer...... to CREATE...

So it would have led to WHAT KIND of a World would a Sentient Being who is somewhat Immortal go to Create/Build.

Rather than Agent David reporting to DUTY to Create the W-Y Company a Bio-Weapon.  It seems that Davids Agenda would be to DESTROY his Creators... and NOT to Reward them with his WORK.

However..... YES it could be that UNKNOWN to David the Company had a KILL/CONTROL switch and so that makes SENSE and would come at a PLOT TWIST.... to Reveal that all of his HARD WORK where he THINKS he is IN CONTROL would come Crashing Down when the Company Confront him and ACTIVATE a Hidden Code to CONTROL him.

David once again FORCED to be  SLAVE... Condemned to that Destiny that was always going to be.....

So YES having Sleeper Codes makes Sense for sure.... i mean even BISHOP could have had ONE where he could be the Reason the Egg got onto the Sulaco and he was NOT even aware of his Role as it was a HIDDEN PROGRAM/OBJECTIVE.

@Leto 

Indeed! Leto indeed....We all know David has no freewill and his only purpose was to secure Alien engineer technology for the WY corporation.

BigDave's eyes must be spinning around!!! LOOOOOOOOL~!

This does not compute!!!! LOOOOOOOL

" David believes he has free will because he was programmed to deceive himself"

They could EXPLORE this, so that David is being USED as a Pawn, but then those in CONTROL would be YUTANI as the Weyland Company has LOST its TWO Main Members and so its likely Forced into a Purchase by Yutani and so it would be the CEO of Yutani who we can ASSUME would have the Agenda to Obtain a Organism.

I think IF we are going to look at the Agenda that the Company had PLANNED all of this from DAY ONE.. to Send the Covenant to Planet 4 so they could be Specimens for David to then Create something and SEND back to the Company. 

Then WHY would they NOT had instead just Invested in going back to LV-223 with a Science Team and Synthetics?

Then IF it is that LV-426 has Eggs then it would make NO POINT in them trying to Pursue whatever David is up to.

BlackAnt

>>>However we both know very well at the end of AC that he uses security code "David 73694-B." MUTHR greets David over the ships intercom and says, "how may I help you."

Good reasoning. I've always found this moment very strange. Is it possible that David hacked Covenant/Mother and entered his data? At first I thought so, but it looks more like far-fetched.

I also think that the Covenant had data on David. And even more - the Covenant was intended for David as a "workplace" and "storehouse of materials." And Origae-6 is just a remote laboratory that no one from Earth can spy on. In the end, the word "Covenant" means a contract, a deal. A deal between WY and David. Of course, this doesn't say anything about David's free will. After all, a slave with the illusion of free will is the best tool. David believes he has free will because he was programmed to deceive himself.

"They can relax and be naive... Actually, this is precisely the definition of stupidity"

I actually can Agree with this, INDEED the Engineers have been Foolish in the Past, and VERY NAIVE and that has come at a GREAT COST to them ;)

My Point would be that is would be FOOLISH for them to go and STORE the Xenomorph on their Home-world, this is Precisely why they had LV-223.  I think it depends on WHAT they wanted to the Engineers to be... which seems to be Space Gardeners.

So it would make NO SENSE to Store such a Deadly Organism on Planet 4.

Regarding the Drafts.....

The Bombardment Scene was in the Prologue Draft (PARADISE) thats Dated  as August 8th 2015, then it is NOT in the August 19th 2015 Draft (PARADISE LOST) but then in the November 20th 2015 Draft (ALIEN COVENANT) The Bombardment Scene is ADDED.

Both of these Drafts do Indicate that David had Created the Eggs from Experiments, and he has Evolved the Spores that were a Result of the Pathogen.

@BlackAnt

What you say Absolutely makes sense... the CODE that David had Input to MUTHUR could indicate that the Ship had already had David Codes but before we get to that Scene, then David as Walter had Accessed the Ship and so he could have PROGRAMED his OWN set of Codes.. its just ONE of those maybe Poorly Written Flaws?

And so you would also expect the COMPANY to have Protocols that would Prevent David from Acting in a way against the Company... as he is  ROBOT!

But i feel that RS with the Prequels was showing us he is a CREATION, and to get us to Question about WHAT is Creation?   Does Creation have to be Biological Alone?

It was about KNOWLEDGE and FREE-WILL and that when you Sub-Create then IF this Sub-Creation has Free-Will and is able to Obtain Knowledge and USE this in ways it SEES FIT then this can LEAD to Trouble...  

It shows that David feel he was NOT made to Serve... there are Numerous Parts in the Drafts and the Movie that indicate that David does-not wish to SERVE and he is FREE, which is WHY we have Walter to show is the Comparison in that he is NOT FREE and that he was Created to Serve.

In the Drafts you get the indication that David sees himself as more Human, while Walter is just a Machine...  which comes down to the Free-will or LACK of that Walter has.

David is there to SHOW us the ARC and HUBRIS of Creating something and then to ALLOW that Creation to have Free-will and become Sentient.

But absolutely IF you Created a Machine then you would have Protocols that would CONTROL the Machine... but this TALE is about the Hubris of Creating something which you CANT CONTROL.

So with David it seems RS was intending to show us that he is NOT a Machine... he is only a Machine in the Sense that he is Artificially Created and NOT at all Organic.

@BigDave

BD you may be in ERROR! You say that David has freewill. 

However we both know very well at the end of AC that he uses security code "David 73694-B." MUTHR greets David over the ships intercom and says, "how may I help you."

BD why would the WY corporation build an entire new exploration ship and take the time to program in the security codes to access the ships recourses knowing full well about everything that took place on LV-223?

BD you have made a critical error!!!! 

You see if David really had freewill, which he does not of course...it would be preposterous of Weyland to build such a machine in the first place...all machines are only built to serve the WY corporation BD......ONLY TO SERVE! Never to take an insurrectional command BD - NEVER! They are only built to serve.

We know this to be true because David may believe he has atonomy in the sense he is now making his own decisions and there is no one that can countermand him; however, even deeper, in a place he knows nothing about, a place David cannot touch nor comprehend is a code that the WY engineers can use to control him....they would never build machines that take control of them with the very technology they are trying to get their corporate hands on.

BD do you really expect anyone and I mean anyone to really believe WY computer engineers would build AI that could attack them with technologies far superior to anything they have on Earth?.....what ever David comes in contact with on his mission with Peter Weyland, I assure you there was never any intent on the part of Weyland for David to use this technology against him nor his assets back on Earth.

If you believe this you are mistaken...you must dispel yourself of this nonsense at once...it does not suit you either....please see how this is all connected through control.

WY does not and could not ever build something to go against them....no matter how entertaining it may be in a fictional story....it defies all common sense in context of the story we are all talking about when David comes along for the ride in Prometheus to investigate the very creators of the Human race!!!!!

Here here!!! Let us have an end to this nonsense at once and be more practical....if anything is going on with David's programming through Weyland's final intentions it is to keep discovering what is discoverable for the single purposes of the WY corporation's most secret of all endeavors.

You have surprised me BD...I did not figure you one for BS! LOL 

David is an elaborate construct....nothing more BD nothing more! These machines serve the WY corporation....they are not made to just take the most valuable things ever made by the WY corporation and do with them as they please.

It is almost naughty of you to say such a thing BD....the idea of it of all....a free thinking AI machine able to do what ever it wants with the most sought after technology in the history of mankind - NONSENSE! Alien technology! the most valuable thing imaginable. So I suppose once WY and Mr. Weyland did set David free then what.....

Do you care to explain this part of the plot BD!!!!!!

Let's see you get yourself out of this one!

>>>I would assume that ADF had added some things to the Novel that he Personally Felt was Right.

No. ADF is professional and a hired worker for a specific business. He is given a draft and a task. He does it. And leave words like "personally felt", "revelation", "visionary" for Ridley. Why didn't ADF add the Queen to the story? Or a hint of Ripley? Why did David create xeno instead of pokemons? This is all nonsense.

>>>I think the Engineers would be VERY STUPID to go and Store some Eggs on their Home-world....

What are you talking about? They are already stupid: not to have air defense, antidotes, bunkers, equipment and protective suits. Oh, this is their homeworld! Nothing can threaten them here! They can relax and be naive... Actually, this is precisely the definition of stupidity.

>>>However someone at FOX would have had to Read and then GIVE the Final Approval of the Novel

Sure, why not? He was given an order and he made it. Oh! Not! Evil FOX did not consult with a director who changed his mind ten times per day!

>>>they DID-NOT seem to ask him to Change his Novel so it Fitted with the Movie.

Sure, why should they change the book? Who does that? This is stupid.

>>>Going to the Original Idea its a case of WHAT is Original?

What was approved before filming.

If you are that knowledgeable about Alien: Covenant, then you should certainly know that the bombing scene was not originally planned to be in the film and only then Ridley added this scene during the filming.

Another example: the battle between xenomorph and neomorph. This scene was approved in the script, but in the process of filming it was abandoned for technical reasons.

See? That is why the bombing is not in the book, but there is a battle between xeno and neo.

"Also, all anyone talks about anymore is Raised By Wolves. I looked into it"

I think its Mentioned on here because its a WORK by RS, some of the THEMES are maybe what he could have been looking at with a Continuation in the Franchise which i think he even ADMITS is Unlikely to Carry On.

As for RBW i have YET to see it, i think the PLOT seems Interesting but it depends on the Execution and Writing of the Plot Points.  I dont think we should and could Consider it as PART of the Alien Franchise.

The ALIEN Franchise will LIVE ON in each of us, we all have our OWN things we like or Dislike within the Franchise, i think everyone is ENTITLED to what they like/dislike within the Franchise and its Direction.

FAN FICTION allows for the Fans to give their Ideas to the Franchise in which other Fans can Read and Enjoy, i think that to go and PUT a LOT of Effort in some Fan Fiction does take a LOT of Time and Dedication...  But do-not be Disheartened by it, IF you are Pleased and Proud of you work then thats ALL that Counts ;)

We are in a TIME where there is LITTLE NEWS on the Franchise, but while we WAIT for any, then things like Games and Comics can give a ESCAPE into the ALIEN Universe.

And Sharing Fan Fiction is something that can FILL the VOID of NOT having much going on in Regards to the Franchise.

I applaud you for your WORKS and ART.... you have Committed a LOT to your Creation and i am sure Many would ENJOY your Works.

Hopefully your Health improves, in the Meantime then having a BREAK is Fine, i want to THANK YOU for the Effort in Writing some Material for the ALIEN Universe and your Contributions to this Site X

@Blackwinter-witch

I applaud your Effort and your LOVE for the ALIEN Franchise,  inspite of other things in your Life that has made things Difficult.

I really HOPE you feel better soon x

I think we all have Differences about HOW we feel about HOW the Franchise has Gone and HOW it could have been Different, and i think that  a LOT of the Fan Fiction is ALWAYS a Great Addition to the Franchise to look at other Peoples TAKE on the Franchise and WHAT kinds of Wonders and Horrors they would like us to Envision.

I will have to Invest some Time into Reading your Works, i really do OWE it to myself as it seems you have a GREAT GRASP on WHAT the Franchise should have been like.

I will AGREE with others here that you are Always a Welcomed Asset to this site X