Comments (Page 125)

SuperAlien:

Maybe that was the reason why they released it? To show us that they could do better than AVPR. It’s like “Hey we can redeem ourselves!” :D

The problem is that when you have reached the absolute bottom then there is only one direction to go: up.

“So ONCE again let see HOW or WHAT some of you would have Preferred.“

Fair enough although I'm not sure if it is about which draft I would have wanted to see as a movie or if the question is how I would have liked a movie to be. I will answer the latter question since it seems to be more interesting.

"Dr Shaw and David VS Thousands, Millions of Evil Technologically Advanced SOBS!"

I understand that it's a problem that is difficult to solve. I would have liked a story with focus on the humans, and better human characters. This would require a writer that knows how to do that. When I say better human characters think Star Wars and the first three movies. Much less about the androids although they could be in some scenes, and nothing of the "android made the monster"-thing. Either make the Engineers its creators or someone above the Engineer that made the Xeno. The point of that is to keep the mystery about it but that we get some sort of answer that isn't too obvious and not too vague. Perhaps this answer isn't much to the point but I'm not sure how to give a satisfying answer.

Getting to know more about the Engineers and their society would've been interesting. Tie it to the space-Jockey either as an Engineer or like a cousin to them. Keep their planet bigger and more Gieger-esque. Some of it could have been bio-mechanical but also some Gothic stuff could work, it should look different and scary but everything doesn't need to look the same. Maybe it would look scary to us, not to them but the unknown can make us uncomfortable. Have the Engineers as much taller than in Alien Covenant so they get bigger buildings, what we think is big on earth might be small to the Engineers which could help the story. All the Engineers don't have to be of the same size but they should look more different compared to AC. The differences in how they look in AC compared to Prometheus was just strange. I didn't doubt that they were Engineers but maybe someone else did because of how different they looked.

“A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY”

Nah, human greed and an inability to learn from mistakes takes care of that. I understand your point but I wouldn't like it in the movie.

About regenerating Xenos, I don't like it. It would make the Xenos too cartoony in a lack of a better word.

“So its not in anyway a FACT/CANON kind of Topic but a Re-Writing of History as a Alternative.”

I like it, it is a good topic.

This house might look big to us but maybe it would be small to the Engineers, who knows? A Gothic city could look interesting estethically speaking so no stone huts please. Some people might think that it still isn't different enough but it could be. If they had Gothic looking buildings then when we made Gothisism on earth well the Engineers might have made that earlier, it is just that we didn’t know about it. Mankind thinks that it is the first but just makes a close version, like David and the Xeno. Perhaps I got an idea there but I am not sure if people would have picked up on that. Mankind makes a copy of the Engineer's esthetics, David makes a copy of the Engineers monster and besides he was made by humans, so he is close to a copy since people already exist. Very few things are really new, just like AC had a lot of copied things from earlier movies. ;) There is a possibility to make your own version though… like it should have been in AC.

No David and maybe no Shaw, get rid of them at least the robot. David since I don't like android-movies, and Shaw because she was dumb but if they would have kept her in a smaller role alive and written better like in the Crossing it could have worked. What if David was curious and be dangerous in that way, not that he would be overtly evil as in Covenant he just doesn’t see the consequences of what he does.

He could have a small role and be killed a bit into the movie, like maybe after 20% is over. If we have a movie that is 2 hours and 20 minutes so they could have more and better scenes that flesh out the characters David could be there for maybe 10-15 minutes. You should better know that I am less concerned about the run-time, I am more about getting a good story and characters. No keeping it down to two hours just to sell tickets because that means cutting things out that could have improved the movie, both Prometheus and AC suffered from that. At the same time if you make a decent script that shouldn't be as much of a problem but when the script isn't very good that becomes a thing. Make a good movie and it is more likely that people will watch it, less run time means a bigger risk for good scenes to be cut out that would make a better movie. A better movie means that potentially more people will watch it (word of mouth) so you get more money.

In case they made us, then why? Were me made just for fun (because they could)? Were me made to serve the Engineers? Did they create mankind but we went wrong? Did they create life on other planets? Is there any material that shows that as being the case like sketches or scientific formulas or something?

Engineer society with art, architecture, how they have their society could be interesting. Think about ancient Rome. They should have scientists that are a part of manufacturing the monsters like we have biological weapons. Not all of them need to be technologically advanced, know about technology. Have them being some sort of religious with priests and that, who knows what that would look like exactly?

We know that the Engineers would not be happy with mankind so I imagine a space-battle between the Engineers and humans. Maybe something else than that I am not sure but it could be interesting. The Engineers would have created the Xeno, not David or at least the Engineers would have found something that they made the Xeno from. Keep the goo as a secret, not like David did when he talked about it because it ruined some mystery but I prefer to believe that David was sort of hallucinating and talked nonsense about it in Covenant.

BD
“Because well the Prequels are Broken maybe Beyond Repair…”

Maybe, but I blame it on crappy characters and a focus on a mad robot. It’s too bad because they could have been good movies.

I understand that they were in a tough situation when it came to getting a script. When I think about how Prometheus ended I can see that. Not sure if you can blame Blomkamp that much because if Prometheus would have been better I guess that people wouldn't have been that excited about it. Blaming Blomkamp for it seems to be a thing that is too easy to do. If the theatrical version of Prometheus wouldn't have been that poor then maybe more people would have liked to follow the next one, but I understand what you mean.

". . . it seemed at this Time that Fans were a BIT disappointed with Prometheus."

Who wouldn't be? Poorly developed characters that were doing stupid things, that's what I didn't like about it. Look around on the www and you will see that many had a problem with it. Actually I read a lot of reviews on the www that said the same thing. The monster issue was further down on the list compared to that. Blaming the lack of Xenos that you have done before is to miss the criticism I think especially when it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue compared to that. Scott and Fox thought that the lack of the original monster was a big problem, it doesn’t seem so when you hear what people actually found to be bad.

I take a quote from this page:

"An entire cast of talented actors is wasted in this movie and they all do their best with their underdeveloped stock characters." http://thebrooklynmouth.com/film/prometheus-movie-review

"The characters are thin and emotionles. . . " https://www.timeout.com/movies/prometheus

"It is a silly movie, filled with characters and situations that aren‘t remotely believable. ..” https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/06/11/review-prometheus-is-a-visually-stunning-epic-failure/

“everyone displays a dangerously cavalier attitude to breathing in unknown atmospheres, and our heroine's mutant buzzkill of a boyfriend has just knocked her up with a giant thrashing squid.” https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2013/jun/14/prometheus-ridley-scott-recap

"Among the actors, only Fassbender finds a character worth inhabiting and enriching." https://entertainment.time.com/2012/06/05/prometheus-alien-minus-one/

I can dig up lots of similar comments (Rotten Tomatoes is the same), my point is that the lack of Xenos isn't what it was about. At the same time I got to say that a lot of the unused ideas would have been better if they would have been in Prometheus. Yes I would rather have had something that was closer to Alien Engineers although maybe not exactly that movie for example we didn't need to see as many monsters as in Alien Engineers.

"Excitement about Blomkamps Alien V"

That could have been one of the reasons but if the characters in Prometheus wouldn't have been stupid I guess that people wouldn't have cared as much about Alien 5. I think that a bit isn't the grade of disappointment that was against Prometheus, a big disappointment is more accurate it seems to me because that is how I felt. For some reason I refuse to believe (pun!) that I was the only person that felt very let-down by Prometheus. When Ridley came on as a producer for Alien 5 that is when it can be argued that it was rejected. Not to say that I would have liked to see an Alien 5 but that is how I read it. Fox had to choose between Blomkamp and Scott and Scott is more known so that's how it is.

Abandoning Alien 5 didn't make it better because the main problem was still there, crappy characters. Adding a Xenomorph to Alien Covenant didn't solve anything, it actually made things worse (David as the creator). The problems were bigger than an eventual Alien 5 is what I would argue. For example the last time we had an alien movie with decent characters was Alien 3 and Blomkamp had nothing to do with Prometheus even though it had the same problem. He gets too much of the blame and no I haven't seen any of his movies.

"... and so you would always then have to LOOK at what would be Davids Agenda and WHAT would he want to do… They seemed to indicate that Davids Agenda to Create played a Large Role "

OK, but if that's the case they should have written Prometheus in a better way or at least ended it differently. Not sure what they could have done but how it ended created a problem but I can see how it was done though. If that was their way of thinking that Davids agenda was important then it seems to me that's when it went wrong because it's too much about an android, a bad idea for an alien-movie. He was interesting in Prometheus but I didn't want a movie centered around him. About Shaw, I wondered if they were sure about that she would be as little in it from the beginning when they started to work on AC compared to how it ended up.

"To then Shortly after Prometheus that they COULD indeed Procreate but they had CHOSEN to NOT do so, but USE other means to Create."

That could have been interesting to see, at least parts of it. Don't show it in detail just give some clues to keep some mystery.

"Those Planet 4 Engineers were NOT a Mistake they was INTENDED to look how they did."

Fair enough, but some of them should have looked more like those in Prometheus, to get a mix and to see more of how their society looked like. Those in Covenant didn't have to look exactly like the one in Prometheus, just bigger and more interesting. By bigger I don't mean like the SJ but closer (not a copy which is important) to the one in Prometheus compared to what we got. One of the dissapointments about Covenant was that they didn’t have more in detail about the Engineers.

". . . but it seemed they said the Revelation of those Engineers Role and WHO had Created them is a Curve-Ball… So Who Created Them?  maybe if that Answer was US! then that would have been a Curve-ball.  "

Hopefully mankind didn't create them, that would be really lame. They already tied the Xeno indirectly to humans via David and that was crappy so if that would be true they would have destroyed the Engineers also. Two interesting things down the shitter. What the prequels have done this far is to turn some interesting ideas into a dissapointing reality, don’t take this personal but that is how I look at it. I think that you can make it more mysterious than that but you got to be creative. Maybe those that had created them were closer to the SJ type of beings? Story-wise it would have been awesome and could have opened up the Alien-universe even further than Prometheus did.
"So i was kind of Wondering if the Source was hinting that the Creators of the Engineers would be much more like Humans and indeed those in Prometheus are Engineered Creations."

It's not impossible but I think that they should be more mysterious, like human-like but not totally. You have the Engineers that remind us of humans in how they look so that would be interesting if the creators of the Engineers would look even less like us compared to the Engineers that we have seen this far at least. Having the creators of the Engineers look less human would add much needed mystery to it. Look at how the Orchs look, that could have been something.

"Low and Behold in 2017 we saw some Concepts for Alien Covenant that was by TWO different Artist that Featured beings who looked... HUMAN!"

Was that the thing outside of the cave that you posted? Not too impressed with that but it makes me wonder what could be in that cave. It is like when you see an old photo of a house that looks very different from those that we have now, that makes you wonder how it might have looked inside. That building gives me the same sense of curiosity and wonder. Yes we saw the hall of heads but I don’t think that we saw more than that in Covenant even though I think that they should have given us more related to the Engineers.

About the Xeno, yeah that is what I heard too like the studio said that he needed a Xeno or else there would be no movie. Didn't the Xeno just appear and then quickly got killed by that crane? This is how I remember it, that was lame. It was like he said "there, you got your monster, happy now?" so it got introduced fast and killed fast.

Two hours is a problem too, it is like they chase a run-time instead of getting a good movie. Just do what you need to get a good movie and people will more likely give it a better score than if you cut important things out like they did with AC and P. Focus on what is best for the movie, not to get it down to 2 hours, 1.5, or what ever.

"Angry Engineers and especially the Prometheus Kind on a World with Vast Technology in Large Numbers with Humans"

That would be difficult but I think that it could maybe work if humans had spread to other galaxies or worlds. You mentioned hubris, maybe that could be something for the Engineers so they wouldn't try to destroy us again because maybe mankind had become too advanced? I'm trying to find a way why they didn't destroy all of humanity while having some interesting battle scenes. Sure it might cost some money but Star Wars usually gets it right, it doesn't need to last for too long either since you could imply whatever it might be and make a mystery but have it in a way that makes sense for people. Yes Star Wars is a bigger franchise but technically they could get it to work.

"I think then you have it that they was Concerned with David for the same reasons they Feared/Regretted the LV-223 Types, and we have David then Unleash the Pathogen on them."

Maybe it could work, I am not sure, but at least AC wasn't that good. Eventually it still gives David too much of a role and that would be bad. Humans could have made it to another planet, terramorphing anyone? ;) Shaw could have been in it if she was better written, like how she was in The Crossing compared to Prometheus. Perhaps David tried to experiment on her but she escapes and helps the humans against David and the monsters because at least she knows how dangerous David can be. How could she survive the experiments? She survived a surgery, so it’s possible. If she would stay alive the whole movie is another issue.

I found a script at a web page and as far as I can see when I compare to the movie it seems legit. I enjoy to read it but it lacks when it comes to the characters, it seems that too many are there just for the purpose of throwing characters into the movie, they don’t mean too much. Faris, Oram, David, and Walter seem to be written so they have some sort of personality but the rest, nah. Unfortunatly there were too many names without personality, just like in the movie. Couldn't they see that the characters were underwhelming? They needed to be more fleshed out before they started to shoot it. Some of them were just descriptions of how they looked, like Cole, and Lope. Are we supposed to care about them? Sorry but it doesn't work. Half way in it becomes about David, which is for the worse. Another problem was that it was too slow (I tried to imagine myself looking at it as a movie on the screen). Nope, they should have given it to another writer but it's difficult since Ridley just cared about Walter, David, and maybe Oram and it shows since he influences the script and come up with crappy stuff.

Get rid of David totally or at least heavily reduce his role to a cameo. Bishop's head in A3 should be a hint of his screen-time the way I would prefer to have it or maybe two short scenes but not more. Some people might like his part so they got to get something but I am done with him.

". . . more about the Engineers (Aggressive SOB LV-223 kind) they would want something to SHOW that David could NOT have Created the Xenomorph, and a Fair Share would want David out of the Picture in General."

I would like to see more about the Engineer society in general not just steroid Engineers. Those in Prometheus but also some of those in Covenant, a mix could work if it is fleshed out and not a small footnote. We have Jabba's palace in Star Wars 6 but they could spend less time in the Engineer head-quarters so to speak. Honestly I’m not 100% sure where I’m going with this but more about the Engineers would be nice. As far as David is concerned see my comment above the recent quote.

"Now if you ask ALIEN Fans... they would Associate other Elements too, but in General then ALIEN is Synonymous with Ripley and Xenomorphs."

It could be expanded, but I see what you mean. We don’t need to be stuck with Ripley forever. Not very interested to see the monster that we have seen again and again. Uplift the role of the Engineers and go from there. The black goo could be used in some way, not sure how though but it has a potential. Those at the AVPGalaxy-podcast called the goo a plot-device but it could be more than that.

"Are the ENGINEERS now DONE WITH?
Does the Black Goo not even EXIST?"

I would say no to both of those questions. The Engineers could still be around but they got to be better done and make morse sense. Maybe the goo is around somewhere but we don’t know where, there are various types of stone that isn't limited to our planet eventually it's the same with the goo.

"But thats down to the Limits of the Imaginations of those Working on the Project."  

To an extent but don't forget the issue with the budget. You got to have an interesting story and a director that understands that you need more than themes to get it right..

About Disney and what they might do, that’s interesting. I will say this: if you are going to do a repetition then leave it alone. To get stuck in the past is boring. You got to have someone that knows how to make a good story with chara

cters to care about and one that doesn't cut the movie into crap. Sorry but I am done with Scott having as much of a say that he has now at least story-wise even though it isn't only about him.
“… so the Engineers could take Davids Xenomorph and EVOLVE it to get to those Eggs on LV-426... it does not mean it would have been GOOD because that comes down to Execution of a Plot and the Characters.”

I would accept that because at least it would solve one problem. I also agree that it wouldn’t sole everything because there are more problem than that.

CGI is something that at least the original Avatar got right but it didn’t look very real. This how I remember it so I can be mistaken but anyways Alien got to have that look of realism. Alien is not an animated thing and would probably not work as it either. You mention the sacrificial Elders Engineers but with them cut out it makes less sense. For that to work you got to have them in Prometheus but they weren’t so it gets confusing for many at least although I could see some connection.

"I know some was UPSET at the more Roman look, but then the PLOT is supposed to indicate that the Engineers Architecture had Influenced some of our Ancient Past."

I understand what you mean but it still looked boring. Yes it didn’t have to look like it is on earth but bigger and more awe-inspiring. Still the Engineers are not human so we didn’t copy them but maybe got influenced by it, that is a difference so it should be shown. You made an interesting point when you tied it to the Juggernaut. The SJ could maybe look a bit different from the Engineers but how different is another issue. Parts of the Engineers were alright and there are parts that are just “eh”. Like a Ganesha-type? Please no, I can’t take it seriously. 

You .mean this one?

It reminds me of the myth of Lamia. Or the Big Bad Wolf.

What are the white stains on the Mother's outfit, is it android blood?

Roger G episode 5 has the highest mark on IMDB, higher than episode 1.

Roger G Good to know. I think directors or even writers change through different episodes, so that might have something to do with it?

I think you could ALWAYS had introduced a Hierarchy above the Engineers, a Race who are TALLER.  If Ridley Scott claimed they are Fallen/Dark Angels then this means there is LIKELY a Layer/Creator above them.

And so this RACE could be Introduced as the Space Jockey and the Creators of our BLUE MEANIE LV-223 GUYS!

Regarding the BUDGET.

I think that YES those Limit you as far as Special Effects, but then if we going to go for OH PRETTY CGI like say Avatar if you DONT get it Right it can look VERY FAKE... to me even Avatar came across a bit Cartoonish.... but for its AGE it was Good just looked too POLISHED and like a Pixar.

With Planet 4 being VERY Earth like its a Convenience as it Saves on Budget..... but it also FITS with the PLOT... if these Engineers Seed Worlds, they maybe Terra-form them to a Degree first and maybe they SEED the FLORA too.

We never got to go to Oriage-6 but i would assume it would look a LOT like Kepler22B from Raised by Wolves.

The Engineers i think some think they was a Result of Budget Cuts, but for a SHORT Scene...  then a Lighter More Glossy Paint applied and Black Out Sclera Contacts and they would have Appeared much more CLOSER and it would NOT have made a Massive Difference to the Budget.

It seems they was going for more of a Sacrificial Scene Elders look as far as Clothing etc, to go and have the Bio-Suited LV-223 Engineers in Numbers would COST a Fair Bit of Money.

The Digital City could have had more of that Prometheus Interior of Complexes Aesthetic but someone had decided to TONE away from the Atheistic apart from the Ships.

I know some was UPSET at the more Roman look, but then the PLOT is supposed to indicate that the Engineers Architecture had Influenced some of our Ancient Past.  I think the Buildings just Needed a LITTLE MORE of the Aesthetic of the Juggernauts interior.. even if this was mainly INSIDE of the Buildings.

">>>getting our Engineers back

Or maybe the classic Space Jockey?!"

I think the OPTION is always there to have the Space Jockey being DIFFERENT to the Engineers, certainly prior to Alien Covenant....    I think it depends on HOW DIFFERENT.

I think back to the OT as far as the IMPACT of a ALIEN Movie that could maybe REPLACE some of the Franchise as Canon, then IF the Prequels are to be Considered as NEVER HAPPENED.

Then YES down the LINE they could RE-INVENT the Space Jockey, but i think EVEN then you may NOT please everyone, as some Fans may actually be Pleased with the Prometheus Engineers.

The Engineers are not the GODS thats for Sure... it seems there was a intended Hierarchy above them and so they could have USED this to be the Space Jockey as another 12ft Humanoid Species.

The Engineers actually ended up NOT being as TALL as some of the Ancient Gods are depicted... they also LACK the Facial Hair ;) LOL

Or do we go for a Elephantine Alien instead?

"No. The main problem is the budget"

The Budget does Limit stuff, i will come back to that though, what i mean was by lack of Imagination was in regards to HOW do they introduce Humans to the STORY as we ONLY had Dr Shaw as the Human...  so by that i mean that we have this PLOT you know Space Gardeners, Seeders of Worlds who go and Visit the Worlds they Seed.  With such a PLOT then maybe its UNLIKELY that the Earth was the ONLY place where they had Raised/Engineered Humans.

So i felt you never had to MAKE the Engineer Home-world to be RIGHT on our Door Step to allow for more Humans to arrive, i had Envisioned and Discussed on here with my Prometheus Sequel ideas back in 2013/2014 that IF we saw Dr Shaw arrive at a World that had other Humans.. she would be like SURPRISED to find other Humans who are FAR FAR from Earth, and then HOW would they React at seeing their Own Kind but in Space Suits and with a Look-a-like (David) who is NOT at all Human.

The idea was QUITE a lot like Raised by Wolves to a Degree, where they (David and Dr Shaw) would arrive at a Place that had other Humans, plus maybe few other Humanoids who was Watched Over by a Handful of Engineers.  These Engineers would become Concerned at the Influence that Dr Shaw would have over those Inhabitants, and also Very Concerned with David.

Planet 4 as far as Location was a Convenience so that Incoming Humans from Earth would arrive, and SET-UP some Events that would eventually TIE into ALIEN

If the Xenomorph Plot was not ADDED then the World that Dr Shaw and David would arrive at could have been Much Further away and a Incoming Colony ship could arrive at a Latter Time and NOT be retrained to Arrive prior to ALIEN so that the Xenomorph Origin can be Tied in...

Regarding the Xenomorph....

I would say YES we are looking at the Protomorph, and RS had even said that Davids Creation has to Evolve some more before we get to ALIEN and so what we had is that WITHOUT the Experiments by David on Planet 4 then there would be NO EGGS on LV-426.

This does-not mean that David is the Creator of those Eggs, it means that those Eggs have their Origins from his Creation and so the Engineers could take Davids Xenomorph and EVOLVE it to get to those Eggs on LV-426.

I think this was a Unnecessary Plot... you NEVER had to do this to GO with the Creation Arc of David....

David could have Created something like those... have a Face Hugger and Egg thats Different too, and maybe you show this Beast go and Egg Morph a Victim.

You see Davids Workshop and Notes more Clear, give some Dialect about the Engineers creating the Deacon and that he (David) was Engineering it back to its more PURE form.

SIMPLE... enough Clues to maybe HOW the Xenomorph could have came about, you have Davids Creation Arc intact.. you have a NEW Monster...  and LV-426 remains a Mystery and your NOT going to be Shackled to it.

This would have STILL been able to keep the AC Plot intact... just that we are shown something NEW and so David is NOT the Creator of the Xenomorph...

But while a Plot Change like this may have SOLVED one of the Big Gripes with AC.... it does not mean it would have been GOOD because that comes down to Execution of a Plot and the Characters.

My kids will be interested with this kind of information. They love aliens!

SuperAlien

First, Thank-You for saying!! :D

xenofanlv426

Thank-you for saying!

Finally a good treatment of the Big Chap.

Maybe you should not make it available to fans yet, but send it to Disney, perhaps they could dare to plan for the next film or tv series.

For the moment thay seem clueless on where to thke the franchise 

sounds good, look forward to it :)

Well, technically, there is no xenomorph in the Covenant. David created a promomorph that is so known as the praetomorph.

>>>I think we overlook HOW HARD it is to take David and Dr Shaw to MEET some Engineers, and then BRING IN some more Humans into Play!

>>>But thats down to the Limits of the Imaginations of those Working on the Project.

No. The main problem is the budget. That is why the shooting took place in the forest, instead of creating expensive alien decorations. This is why the expedition did not wear spacesuits on the planet's surface. This is why the Engineers were cheap.

>>>getting our Engineers back

Or maybe the classic Space Jockey?!

Think i will BUMP this Thread.

I know that MOST people had NOT enjoyed Alien Covenant and that it was NOT what they Expected from a Prometheus Sequel.

So ONCE again let see HOW or WHAT some of you would have Preferred.

Looking at the SET-UP as we have David and Dr Shaw on a Engineer Ship and WHERE do they GO NEXT and what do they Discover?

We maybe have to BARE in Mind that we can Assume that Dr Shaw needed David to be Put Back together in Order to GO where she Wanted....  BUT once he is back together then he can GO TO wherever he Wants....

He could have gone to Earth and Destroyed Mankind but we know thats not the Case because well  the Earth is in ONCE Piece at the Time of ALIENS.

But it does-not mean that David would have to go to the Engineers Home-world.   We can Assume Dr Shaw is in Cryo-sleep and so David can go to where ever he wants.

*So where does David take Dr Shaw?

*What do they Discover where they Go?

What would you have liked to have Seen and Discovered in a Prometheus Sequel?

To go back to the OT

Because well the Prequels are Broken maybe Beyond Repair, what Fans would WANT from a Continuation would be more about the Engineers (Aggressive SOB LV-223 kind) they would want something to SHOW that David could NOT have Created the Xenomorph, and a Fair Share would want David out of the Picture in General.

So for DISNEY if they want to make another ALIEN Movie then they would NOT want to take Risks and to TRY and FIX or Continue with the Alien Covenant Arc would be a RISK.

If you was to at RANDOM go and ask 1 Millions People about ALIEN... those who would Remember the Movie would Remember it for the Xenomorph, many would also remember ALIENS and so i would say a High % of those who remember the Franchise would Associate it with Xenomorph, Queen and RIPLEY.

Now if you ask ALIEN Fans... they would Associate other Elements too, but in General then ALIEN is Synonymous with Ripley and Xenomorphs.

Blomkamps Alien V seemed to Recognize this.... The Walter Hill and David Giler version of Alien V seems also about these.

Myself its just a Fan Service.... lets UNDO what we are NOT really Happy with..... 

Ripley is...... DEAD they need to Move on unless they wish to Continue from Ripley 8.

But the Xenomorph can be Resurrected, but i think you are LIMITED to Queen and Egg over and over, unless you Evolve/Change either their Aesthetic or Evolve/Uplift their Purpose and Ability... rather than being just like Space Termites.

The Prequels with Prometheus had OPENED UP the Franchise but its HOW do you do a Unconnected Movie and Cover some of what the Prequels offered?

Are the ENGINEERS now DONE WITH?

Does the Black Goo not even EXIST?

You could go to a World where we have something similar or even Xenomorphs but then i think you have to leave some Connections to Prometheus, so that you could Explore the Engineers again at a Latter Time and Horrors that are Similar but i doubt it.

I FEAR the Franchise under Disney would become Starship Troopers with Xenomorphs......  You may have more chance of seeing Predators introduced than getting our Engineers back :(

Regarding the Changes...

I have said this Quite a LOT, there are Fans who had Expected more from Prometheus and was Disapointed, and NOT all of them was because of NO Xenomorphs, but quite a Share was because the LACK of Clues, and there was NOTHING that Replaced the Xenomorph.

YES as a Movie Prometheus had some Bad Characters and Silly things, and i think some Fans had Accepted what RS had said in that THIS is NOT going to be a ALIEN Movie.

When some of the Fans who would use the Internet to Discus the First Movie (Prometheus) had seen the Release of the Unused Concepts then a Majority of People felt Disappointed that some of these NEVER made it to the Movie.  When people saw Alien Engineers then a LOT of them saw THIS was the better Prequel Story

I do think the Anticipation and Excitement at Alien V had also made those working at FOX go and think that they NEED to bring in the Xenomorph and its Origins.

THEY was Mistaken...

IF the Source i had was Correct/True then they had Envisioned to give us TWO Monsters that we could Connect with the Xenomorph but would NOT have been the Xenomorph

Showing us HOW these came to be and that THEY are similar to the Xenomorph would surely give Fans more Clues to know that LV-223/LV-426 were Connected.

The Source had given some Details on the Appearance of these Monsters but in a Vague way.... they claimed that ONE would be Based on the Necronom 4 and the other the Original Design of Alien but both are NOT the Xenomorph.

One would be Transparent and Light in Color, the other Would be similar to the Xenomorph.  One would have somewhat Eyes... the other would have NONE.  One has kind of Dorsal Tubes but different the other has Spines/Spikes. There was a Few more Details... i have to try and go and Check some my Old PM. 

But ONE was a Creation of David....

And i think that its a Shame because they could have had David Create something that was MORE Different to the Xenomorph and it would STILL have Fitted his ARC.

I do think that Dr Shaw should have at least had 40 Min worth of Screen Time, but when your looking at the Covenant Plot with Incoming Humans then Sacrifices had to be made and the Engineers and Dr Shaw got the CHOP!

I think we overlook HOW HARD it is to take David and Dr Shaw to MEET some Engineers, and then BRING IN some more Humans into Play!

But thats down to the Limits of the Imaginations of those Working on the Project.   Humans = Earth.... NO it does not have to ;)

"Despite the fact that all the changes for Prometheus and the rejection of xeno were made precisely in order to tell in detail about the Engineers."

I think that is the Real Shame about what Happened during the U-Turn that led to Alien Covenant, i will say HOWEVER that when we hear from RS i do get the Impression the Addition of the Xenomorph was FORCED onto him by FOX

I think its a Shame that we NEVER got to see more of the Engineers but then WHEN you look at all that AC had to try and Squeeze into a Typical 120-150 Min of Screen Time, it a case of WHERE and HOW did you FIT more Time for the Engineers?  The Xenomorph Gestation had to be Speed up for Sakes of Convenience due to Limited Running Time.

Unfortunately the PLOT is a bit of a Poisoned Chalice, and when you want to GIVE more Engineers and have Humans come to a Place where they would be then its Going to be Hard to Pull It Off..... depending on the Number of Engineers and HOW they would FEEL about Humans turning up.

Angry Engineers and especially the Prometheus Kind on a World with Vast Technology in Large Numbers with Humans never mind say a Colonial Marines Ship with 100 Marines turning up would just be a Genocide to the Humans.

The PLOT i would have gone for would have been to SHOW us a Paradise that is LOST... a World in Ruin.... and David and Dr Shaw could Discover a Handful of Survivors...  that look LESS like the Prometheus Engineers.

Reveal those Engineers were a Sub-Creation who Rebelled against the Elders, attempted to Destroy them, and then they Attempted to GET our Species to Worship them... but we Rebelled and so the Engineers attempted to Destroy us..  But the Original Engineers from Paradise had made a Last Ditch Effort to STOP them (LV-223) and Caused the Outbreak.

I think then you have it that they was Concerned with David for the same reasons they Feared/Regretted the LV-223 Types, and we have David then Unleash the Pathogen on them.

Awesome ;)

"What concepts are left for the Alien series?"

Thats a Good Point....

Not much to Really think about as a LOT has been Covered in the Franchise.

Apart from....... Interdimensional/Extradimensional Horrors/Beings  ;)

Lots of ideas and concepts we discussed on this forum have made their way into the Raised by Wolves series such as colonization of a desolate planet, crash landing of a spaceship, prehistoric flora and fauna, rouge androids, android cut open for surgery, replacing parts of android, remains of an ancient civilization etc. And it is not over yet.

What concepts are left for the Alien series?

Xenomorph displayed at the Giger Museum.

@Hox  A Xenomorph should teach you a lesson.

Leto we had a lot stupid characters in Aliens, but nobody complains about it.  In fact, it had only stupid characters, even Ripley had her most stupid role in that film of all quadrilogy.

In Prometheus, yes, the characters were stupid and extremely superficial, but then look around and look around again after 10 years and you will see people dumbing down irreversibly generation after generation, that is the future of mankind.

I do not agree the characters in Covenant were stupid, for the screen time they got, there were some good performances, except maybe for the Smollet family.

For the decision to change direction from Prometheus to Covenant, yes, I blame the fans, their reaction and comments made the studios to shift from Engineers to Xenomorphs. Not all the fans, of course, only the Blomkamps Alien 5 or the more recent Giller/Hill Alien V, both of them bringing back Ripley and a lot of xenomorphs.

Ridley had a hard time trying to reinvent the wheel with so much pressure and whining around and such a miserable script for Prometheus. Covenant script was a lot better, tell me a better script in all franchise. And he had a good creative team in Dane Hallett & co.

>>>Low and Behold in 2017 we saw some Concepts for Alien Covenant that was by TWO different Artist that Featured beings who looked... HUMAN!

No. The arms are very long.

Whatever. It didn't matter how far Scott wanted to get away from xeno. By itself, the story about the cosmic variations of people sounds like what we have seen many times in different films and shows.

Ridley could have left an interesting bait in Prometheus, but he chose to avoid talking about the Engineers. Despite the fact that all the changes for Prometheus and the rejection of xeno were made precisely in order to tell in detail about the Engineers.

As I said earlier, Scott buried his promising Space Gardeners himself.  It was neither Fox nor xeno, not even Filthy Alien Fans. Especially the last one - thinking that the fans were upset with the lack of xeno in Prometheus - that seems to be just your thoughts. The viewers were fine without xeno on the screen. Want to know what people weren't okay with? Stupid characters! And so in the Covenant we got ... stupid characters! Who is to blame - xeno or fans?

SuperAlien

Much appreciated and TY!! I was wondering what was going on.

One more week, and right now I spend most of my time looking over my glasses rather than through them, which I do ONLY when I absolutely need to, as it's like an icepick between the eyes and into the midbrain.
I'll be as careful as I can, and TY for the concern! (HUG)

"maybe the Engineers would take some and try to engineer them to get rid of the bad sides that mankind has?"

I think what it BOILS down to is to look at WHY was we deemed a Mistake?

Was it Genetically we Never Turned out right?  But then for a Race of Advanced Beings who must be Experts in Genetics then they could take a Human to get Embyo's and Evolve us.

But i think the MAIN Problem was HOW we Behaved... that caused a Concern.  This is where the THEMES come into Play.

If we look at Many Mythos, then the Problem of Sub-Creation and Mankind is via Virtue of being able to have FREE-WILL and become Sentient, and then be able to be Influenced in ways and Choose our Own Ways that would NOT be how our Creators would have wanted.

so it kind of comes down to like we saw with ADAM and EVE.  And so say a David would have been like a Walter if it was NOT for the Extra Free-Will he was Given, and so with ADAM before he ATE the Forbidden Fruit he was NOT Fallen, and so would have had LESS FREE-WILL and been 100% Obedient to GOD.

And so for the Engineers all they would have had to do was to TAKE some Children or Embryo's of Humans to another World and RAISE them how they wanted, these Humans would have NO KNOWLEDGE of Mankind on Earth or the Influences that Shaped us to NOT see the Engineers as Gods.

But eventually after Many Many Generations, Thousands of Years then the same Problems with HOW we would behave could RISE again.... as it did to Mankind after the Food and Noah.

I think in Context to the Franchise as far as the Potential for other Worlds then there could be MANY Different Humanoids and some could be Actually the same as Mankind.

"That might have been interesting but I would liked to have seen less of Shaw in a movie like that."

Well she is DEAD now lol... but the kind of Plot could still work as its Basis is about there being another World in the Galaxy that has Humans on it, who had been on this World for Thousands of Years.

"I don't think there was any kind of plan, other than a little rough draft with ideas for Prometheus 2"

Well apparently they had done 8 Drafts by October 2014, but through the Development they was STRUGGLING with a Story, because when you LOOK at the Plot and HOW Bold it was its HARD to think how you Expand on this.

Then we got Blomkamp leaking his Idea for ALIEN V and Miss Weaver then Praising it and this seemed to DRUM up a Lot of Interest in ALIEN V and it seemed at this Time that Fans were a BIT disappointed with Prometheus.

You was basically having to Create a Sequel that would STEER AWAY from Xenomorphs that would cover some what of Dr Shaws Quest for Answers, Davids Arc and MEET some beings (Engineers or their Creators) who are NOT gonna be Friendly.  And so thats a HARD PLOT to work out as FAR as it depended on HOW MANY of the Engineers are on their Home-world and HOW would they react to David and Dr Shaw.

So you have just a SINGLE Human Character accompanied by David the Robot who she may be Foolish to Trust and they are going to TURN UP at a World of beings who will NOT take too kindly to UNINVITED GUESTS....

So Finding the RIGHT story to execute around such a Journey was Hard.

Having NOT came up with a Story that RS and FOX were 100% Pleased with, and IN LIGHT of the Excitement about Blomkamps Alien V, it seemed at First they would want to PUSH BACK the Alien V and make RS a Producer so that it would NOT clash with what RS had intended for the Prequels.

It is likely at this Point we had Work on the Earlier Paradise Lost....

Before then THEY decided to abandon ALIEN V and introduce the Xenomorph and Origins into a Prometheus Sequel which would then become the 2nd Generation Paradise Lost... Now Called ALIEN: Paradise Lost.... which then latter Evolved into Alien Covenant.

I would assume that IF we saw that Blomkamp had NEVER released Concepts and Talked about his ALIEN V then i think we would have had a Prometheus 2 once they had Found the RIGHT way to Carry on.

"Dangerous to who? How is he dangerous?"

Dangerous as far as he KNOWS the Engineers Secrets and can USE their Technology and ONCE he is Reassembled then Dr Shaw and the Juggernaught are to the WHIMS of David.

David could FEED any kind of Lies to Dr Shaw and Once he is back together then he could Basically do what he wanted, go where he Wanted...   We Certainly saw what Danger he was in Alien Covenant.

I think we had to remember that ONCE he had been Fixed then Basically he was in CONTROL... Dr Shaw was just in for the Ride... and so you would always then have to LOOK at what would be Davids Agenda and WHAT would he want to do.

Again the Process from Prometheus to Alien Covenant had gone through Changes and Evolved, but it would seem a LOT would have been about WHAT it is that David does.  What LEVEL of Screen Time that Dr Shaw had is Unknown, we would have NO real Answer to that UNLESS some of the Earlier Drafts came to Light.

The Source i had claimed her ROLE was Important to the Plot, but she did-not Feature too much, only as FAR as mainly Davids Agenda to CREATE.  They seemed to indicate that Davids Agenda to Create played a Large Role and he would Create ONE of the TWO Monsters that would appear and it implied that Dr Shaw played a Big Role in its Creation... but it was NOT the Xenomorph at this Point.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I will add that the Engineers had GONE through a Number of Changes with their Plot/Background from at Inception a Race who had Engineered themselves to a POINT they had LOST the ability to Procreate.  To then Shortly after Prometheus that they COULD indeed Procreate but they had CHOSEN to NOT do so, but USE other means to Create.

When we get to Alien Covenant then its likely the IDEA behind those LV-223 Engineers had Changed.  Those Planet 4 Engineers were NOT a Mistake they was INTENDED to look how they did.

What we have at Very Least are the Civilians of the Engineers (Planet 4) and the LV-223 kind being Genetically Enhanced Soldiers... i would be DRAWN to them being to the Engineers on Planet 4 what the Replicants are to Mankind.

The thing is though is that RS does have a Habit of NOT quite being 100% about what he says as he can Contradict himself a bit.   The Source i had did indicate there is a Curve-ball regarding the Engineers and relation to the Elders.  And the Engineers are NOT at all Gods or the Hierarchy.  They never Gave any Details to WHO those above the Engineers were, but they merely said that Mankind are the 4th/5th Generation of Humans, but it seemed they said the Revelation of those Engineers Role and WHO had Created them is a Curve-Ball.

Again i cant say the Source was True... its only if we ever see the Drafts from August-October 2014 that would Confirm or Conflict what they said.

So Who Created Them?  maybe if that Answer was US! then that would have been a Curve-ball.   I think something to Consider is RS had said that the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus does-not have to be Earth and so it means it does-not have to show it was Millions of Years ago either.

So i was kind of Wondering if the Source was hinting that the Creators of the Engineers would be much more like Humans and indeed those in Prometheus are Engineered Creations.

Low and Behold in 2017 we saw some Concepts for Alien Covenant that was by TWO different Artist that Featured beings who looked... HUMAN!

I struggled just once to watch AVPR and only until the scenes with the pregnant women (a lot of patience involved), after that I simply deleted this crap from my computer (had it as digital copy).

I can't think of a more shitty film, even The Predator was better.

Blackwinter-witch signatures not showing up in the comments to news page, only in the forum section. So editing is not possible here for some reason.

Take care and get your good glasses soon , until then avoid any bad glasses as they can do more harm. 

BD

"those Prometheus Engineers are NOT too Different to David."

Maybe, but there he goes again to try to affect the story in a bad way. Keep him away from the narrative. I don't care if says that they are not too far from David, I would rather have them being like soldiers and if they are supposed to show us more Engineers then they should show them also other than to just push them to the side. Not to say that it should just have been about them but they needed to show us both but that they might have different roles in the Engineer society, that would have been great to see. To me they looked awesome and I think that what he tries to do is to reduce their role which to me is just boring and also trying to bring David into it. Please stop bringing David into everything and ruin the prequels with shitty ideas (aimed at Scott, not you BD).

I think that Prometheus was interesting because they different routes that it could have developed into. Unfortunately the way that they went was. . . bad. Maybe the answers were there in Prometheus but they could have been expanded on in the next movie, a movie with better human characters (including an improved Shaw) and more about the Engineers.

"And also KEY points in the SET-UP was that ONCE we have David back in ONE piece then he becomes Dangerous and that he would be BRINGING HELL with him."

I remember that one, but it could have been better developed in AC. In AC everything is about him and he is a robot-Hitler. Dangerous to who? How is he dangerous? Are there people that he doesn't want to kill? How would they be? They should have had more about the Engineers and how they look at us and have less about David. How would he bring hell? Against who and what means would he use? I would rather have seen a humans against Engineers versus maybe David kind of movie not one that is just about an android but where the humans and Engineers are important as well. Not to say that a story like this would have been easy to write and come off in a smart way but it could have been better. You need writers that know what they do and what is important and a director that isn't in crappy-land. Unfortunately I'm not sure if they had what it took when they made Covenant, enough to get a good movie because obviously they didn't. I don't think that we should have had as many complaints if they would have had a better story and characters (not perfect but better).

"We cant be 100% sure what we would have got, we would need to see some of Paglens Drafts and the Green Rewrites to get a Idea of WHERE a Prometheus 2 was going before FOX had wanted to bring in the Xenomorph and make a Direct Prequel to ALIEN as opposed to STEER AWAY as First intended in 2012-2014"

That would be interesting to see if the script was that different compared to before they threw the Xeno into it or if it was as bad compared to what we got. Sometimes good parts can be thrown away in a movie compared to the script (the prequels) but sometimes the script is a problem in itself because it just isn't good. Maybe it was a bit of both in AC and Prometheus, scripts that lacked and too much that was cut out.

Maybe we could have had a colonization in space with a battle on a planet between humans and the Engineers where the Engineers used Xenos as weapons while having other ones also. David could be a problem but have a lesser role. We would never know how it ended so that could have been a mystery also we would never know if they made it to earth ("if we won't stop it there will be no place to go home to", or similar would make so much sense then). Humans versus Xenos and Engineers would be the main idea, not sure how you could get that right though but it seems interesting and at least better than Covenant and David. I doubt that I am a writer but I have ideas.

Alien Lockdown I like the title, it is fitting for these times.

12 hour shifts seems like a very tough thing to go through.

I'm looking forward to see the logo, fonts etcetera.

I can't believe that I didn't find this one earlier. :D

How about this? AVPR is so bad so my computer exploded when I pressed play (OK not really but you get the idea).

Every true alien-fan must crap at it at least once during their life-time. If you don't you will be turned into an extra in AVPR. ;)

Anyone else that wants to have a go at this? Look at it as being a chance to show your creativity when it comes to come up with insults against crappy movies.

Having a rule-book might be a good idea, it depends on what they have as guide-lines. I think that it is alright to allow some artistic freedom so we won't get a repetition. Wouldn't that disagreement among fans be because they have tried different things with various results? Maybe there would be less discussions and disagreements if they would have been better. Not to say that disagreements always got to be bad, it depends on what causes the disagreement. For example there is a difference between saying that "oh I wish that they would have made the Xeno a bit more like this" compared to "You like the look of the Xeno? I think that it looks like crap." If there are small disagreements then it means that they probably have done more things right compared to if there are two sides that disagree very much.

I am not sure if they need to reboot the franchise. Maybe reboot the prequels since they have failed IMO, but I like the idea of the Engineers so that could be kept. Hopefully Scott won't be around then and they have someone that understands that they need well done human characters. The original three are good but AR is a disappointment to say the least.

Yup, I would like to see how the other planets that they have seeded with life look like. Maybe they look different just like how you can do different paintings. Remember the different planets in Star Wars, who's to say that the Alien franchise can't have similar things? They got to have smart writers and stories to pull this off and also have a good director that understand his or her limits (subtle dig).

Having the SJ and the Engineers to be the same seems tricky at least with how they have treated the Engineers this far. They could be related like a cat and a tiger, not the same but not far from each other.

"I think it depends on WHAT Source you look at, Certainly Prometheus had other Problems and it was NOT that it Disappointed because it had NO Xenomorphs... some Fans was UPSET that it was not a ALIENY kind of Movie."

Maybe, but at least we can say that adding the Xeno to AC didn't improve it.

"FOX had deemed that NOT having the Xenomorph was a mistake…"

I think that they misunderstood the situation. At least they needed to correct more than to just throw the Xeno into the movie. What you say about Blomkamp makes sense but I am not sure if people were excited about it just for the Xenos, maybe they thought that they would get better characters in his movie. Eventually both reasons played a role in it.

"When looking at the Engineers Plot its likely they had Created other Humanoids, but i think you would have to have some look Very Human to have us make a Connection with them."

Yeah, but at the same time we could see a little from different planets. Humanoids on planet X might look different from humanoids on planet Y. To show both could be a way to show how the Engineers create different things.

David was interesting in Prometheus but I would rather not have him in Covenant compared to how it ended up like even though I like the different philosophies that David and Walter had. I understand what you mean about balancing David and the monster but it didn't work. Maybe they thought that they needed more David and more monsters to make it work, but they were wrong.

"It seems they NEVER even Pay any Attention to the Engineers Plot.... Creators, and WHO we had Interactions with that LED to our Mythos and Religions about Gods!"

That might have been what went on but it was too bad, by doing that they miss out on many things that could have been interesting. I still think that the Engineers can be a good way to expand the franchise even though there could be more things.

In the context of the franchise maybe the Engineers could have seeded humanoids or even humans on other planets. Another way is that the Engineers seeded humans on earth and humanoids on other planets. This makes me wonder genetically speaking, what would be the differences in genes between humanoids and humans? Human beings on earth share most of the genes so how much difference would it be between those on earth and those on other planets?

Maybe the Engineers could change our ways or maybe if they won't succeed they might restart it all. I wouldn't like to be there when pissed of Engineers come back to do what they want to do. A angry dog would be a cute puppy by comparison to an army of angry Engineers, just imagine.

You mention human embryos, maybe the Engineers would take some and try to engineer them to get rid of the bad sides that mankind has? If they have thought about it or if they succeed is another question.

"My idea for one of my Prometheus Sequels had taken Dr Shaw and David to a World that has other HUMANS and the Revelation would have been that WE do-not Originate on Earth at all."

That might have been interesting but I would liked to have seen less of Shaw in a movie like that.