Comments (Page 125)

Given that Elizabeth was our Proxy at the end of the movie the subsequent film would have been her story, not Davids.

If you look back at the press from 2012 this was going to be a sequence of films were as Michael said Elizabeth was the heartbeat and he was the head. It was going to be her sequence.

She is in pole position as the film ended. The beating heart of the story is Elizabeth. But having the robot along had huge potential as expressed by Weyland in the Hologram speech.

What happened subsequently is Fassbender became the bigger star they lost Damon and Ridley went on a three-year search on how to make more money from the franchise believing the creature would produce the dollars. 

Ridley did not believe in that and one can only see the scene where Michael is throwing stones at Billy as a satire. 

If you watch the Hennessey Advert that's where Ridley's heart lies. Wonder, visual clues, questing not as Damon said in 2012, "stuff we have seen a thousand times before."   

Looking at some Concept Work from Alien Covenant in more Detail i did NOTICE that the Earlier Concept had a VERY Early Mesopotamian Influence.

The Aesthetic of the One Concept as FAR as HOW these Humanoids appear is the SAME as some of the Early Mesopotamian Reliefs 

The other Aesthetic is more Greek/Roman influenced but the WRITING is the same as on the Mesopotamian Reliefs 

This TYPE of Cuneiform is Very Similar to what is ON the Sacrificial Bowl.

With the Removal of the Elders Scene in Prometheus because RS did-not want to MEET GOD in the First Movie.

Could they at ONE POINT and Pondered having the Hierarchy above the Engineers as being similar in Aesthetic to HOW the Ancient Mesopotamian's had depicted their GODS?

Our Engineers in Prometheus were maybe THUS....  The Igigi

"To me all those questions are answered in the movie."

To a degree then YES but it was a bit Vague for some Fans, who maybe NEED to have things Spoon Fed, the more you look at Prometheus, look at Alien Engineers for some Extra Information and read some of the Comments/Commentary then INDEED we have enough to get the PICTURE ;)

But then the SAME could be said with ALL that Dr Shaw had wanted to get Answered.

The things that are LEFT are the Creation Themes and Rebellion by Creation which i think is where the David Arc and WHAT he would do NEXT is something that would have Been Quite a Emphasis going Forwards regardless.

I think Ultimately then Prometheus needed to have TWO kinds of Sequel.

1) A return Mission to LV-223 thats more like Alien Engineers where we can get more Answers to LV-223 and Clues to the Xenomorph/LV-426 that SETS UP the Special Order 937.

Thus the Door to ALIEN is Closed.

2) We go where David and Dr Shaw are going where you NOW have more Freedom and do-not have to be Shackled down by ALIEN and can STEER AWAY from LV-426.

But ALAS....

"they perfected the creature immortalised in the Mural and bottled it"

That Certainly is HOW i see it, which is what Fundamentally what Alien Engineers showed more Clearly.

"As the Engineers of the Moon were rebels using stolen technology those on the Homeworld would not look favourably on what they did"

Certainly we have seen RS refer to the Engineers as False Gods, and Fallen Angels.  And so this means their is another Faction of them (could be Numerous) and their is a Hierarchy above those Engineers and maybe their Creators are a LITTLE Different?  Who knows...

With the PLOT of Fallen Angels if you would, then in that Context then PARADISE could be a WORLD that is FAR FAR from LV-223.....

We could even have explored if the Hierarchy of the Engineers or the None-Fallen versions had Created Mankind?  Are they AWARE of what LV-223 is.

And so the Interesting Thing with a Prometheus 2 would be to WHOM it is that Dr Shaw would MEET and HOW they would view her.... do they KNOW who WE are?

So there are Many Ways they could have given us a Story that is NOT TIED down to being about LV-426 and Monsters.

What i was DRAWN to regarding the Engineers was that to me they seemed to be either.

1) A Faction of Engineers who had Encountered something they had NOT had a Role in Creating, and they SAW such Potential with this that they Experimented with it to EVOLVE/ENHANCE themselves.   This lead to their FALL and becoming Demons/Monsters if you would. Which some may then see as the Next Stage of Evolution for Creation.

2) Those Engineers are a Sub-Creation who had a Specific Purpose and maybe could not Procreate themselves and so their ARC is the same as with David.  They Rebel against their In-superior Creators and Attempt to Create something NEW.

"Or they can get out of the way of the prequel and tell a parallel Alien/Aliens story. This is the best way."

I think that YES you could go for another STORY within the ALIEN Franchise but then do you LEAVE the Xenomorph Origins a Mystery or do you TRY and give Evidence to suggest WHO had Created it?  

The reason for this TOPIC is to look if there is a WAY to give another Movie that Ties to either Alien Covenant or Prometheus that WILL-NOT go and Follow where David goes.

The other Reason is that its SEEMS that DISNEY have NO IDEA on HOW to Continue with Alien Covenant, because of the RISK that Fans may-not be Interested in the Direction the Prequels were HEADING and the Emphasis on David.

Which could mean that DISNEY could either just IGNORE the Prequels, we dont get a Conclusion and the Xenomorph Origin is LEFT OPEN to Debate.

Or if the Alien V Project is about Dreams then they could put the Prequels down as a Dream and so they NEVER Happened.

But there are some GOOD things about the Prequels that should NOT just be Brushed under the Carpet.

"I prefer David-explorer over David-creator. In other words: David Lawrence is better than David Moreau"

David Arc does seem to FIT with David Moreau but we have to REMEMBER who the Original Moreau/Frankenstein are!

You see the Engineers are Genetic Engineers, but some of them had Conducted Horrific Experiments on LV-223 and we see with the MURAL that they HELD those Experiments in HIGH REGARD... the Black Goo and what it could Create, more so in Regards to Horrors that are Connected to the Xenomorph DNA.

We have seen the Hammerpedes, the Trilobite and Dr Shaw's Deacon, its likely the Engineers had a Similar Deacon in the PAST... we saw the Neomorph and all those Experiments that David had Conducted... its likely the Engineers had done Similar in the PAST.

And so were those Engineers pleased with their Horrors their Deacon? 

What would they make of Davids Creation the Protomorph if you would?

so its OPEN for them to have it the Engineers Discover what David had DONE and see the Potential in it and EVOLVE what David had done to get to the EGGS in ALIEN.

Thus David becomes the MIDDLE-MAN this may be the BEST of Both Worlds option.

"If they use something like time travel, where both - David and the Covenant went back in time and destroyed Planet 4"

With Planet 4 being so Close then YES you would assume that causes a Conflict with the Franchise... and so SURELY by the Time of ALIEN then LV-223 and Planet 4 have to be DESTROYED!

Unless RS would eventually had REMOVED all but ALIEN from Canon.

So to CONTINUE with the David the Middle-Man idea then we NEED the Engineers to take those Eggs from Planet 4 to LV-223 to Experiment, Evolve and Mass Produce them!

BUT something Happens... someone STOPS them and DESTROYS LV-223 but this Happens just as the DERELICT has Left LV-223...   The DESTRUCTION of LV-223 could make a TEMPORARY TEAR in TIME/SPACE which then Drags the Derelict into it and Causes the Cargo to be Compromised and GETS to the Pilot who then ENDS UP on near by LV-426.

Conclusion Complete.... the Eggs are on LV-426 for Thousands of Years....  and Davids role is to BEGIN the Evolution of the Black Goo to the Protomorph, which the Engineers (or other Species) then EVOLVE to the Bio-Mechanical Horror we have in ALIEN.

Such a PLOT and Conclusion would NOT have to have David involved in anyway at all.... It would leave it so Eventually if Davids Story is Continued even if its in a NOVEL then he has Freedom to Create something ELSE and to NOT be Shackled to be Shoe-Horned to ALIEN.

This Pretty Much is the DIRECTION i would take.

" I don't see any future in David character, he's an irrelevant figure for me"

You are NOT alone with that, i actually like his STORY ARC only they could have had HIM go and Create Something Different and via HOW he did this we could gain more Clues to MAYBE how the Xenomorph was Created.

When the Prequel had Evolved to Prometheus with the REMOVAL of the Xenomorph and a SET-UP to STEER AWAY from ALIEN in a Sequel.  The IDEA would have been a Separate Franchise within the same Universe to COVER the Engineers/Space Jockey and the Creation Themes.

Such a Sequel However (Prometheus 2) would have had to give just as MUCH about Humanity, Engineers than to be about David and A.I

Powers that BE had decided to U-Turn and give us Alien Covenant however, and i think for the MOST PART the Fans are wanting to see more of the ENGINEERS and LESS of David.  I think that Ultimately they would also want a Revelation that HE DID NOT go and Create the Xenomorph.

As it STANDS then to get from David with the Covenant and Colonist and Embryo's (Human and Xenomorph) to then GET to Multiple Xenomorph Eggs on the Derelict and introduce the Engineers and SOLVE the Space Jockey Mystery would NOT take a SINGLE MOVIE.

I would say to PULL off the PLOT and CONCLUDE it then we are a Good 4 Hours of Screen Time away from the CLIMAX.  It would be likely a Majority of the First 2-3 Hours of this would be about David (and his Agenda/Arc) and so MANY Fans may not be Interested and so its kind of Dead in the Water.

Which is WHY i made this TOPIC so that we could look at if there is a WAY we can have a Continuation to the Prequels that would BY-PASS whatever David does or Goes and CONCLUDE or SHOW some SOLID Proof that David is NOT the Creator of the Xenomorph.  (The MURAL is NOT any Proof).

>>>Do the Prequels Need a Conclusion?

Not necessary.

If they use something like time travel, where both - David and the Covenant went back in time and destroyed Planet 4, thus destroying LV-223 and all the engineers, and also creating the xenomorph in an ancient past. This is a good idea.

Or they can get out of the way of the prequel and tell a parallel Alien/Aliens story. This is the best way.

But If they're trying to fit the final prequel into the awkward and uncomfortable span of five minutes between AC and Alien, then, well, they have to really try to explain and chew all the inconsistencies. For the third time, they will not be able to create a clumsy story without explanation, and then try to explain everything in a pompous interview. What's the deal with interviews and comments? They are not part of the story on screen.

>>>Do the Prequels Need to Continue with David?

Yes. He is one of two central characters. The only one who stayed. If he disappears, then what's the point?

>>>Is the David as the Creator Arc a Bad Move?

While I find the David-creator idea interesting from a certain point of view, nevertheless, I prefer David-explorer over David-creator. In other words: David Lawrence is better than David Moreau.

*What was LV-223 about? was it always a Outpost to Create Horrific Bio-Weapons?

*What was the Origins of those Experiments, when did they START and WHY?

*What was the MURAL and FRESCO?

*What was the ALTAR and Crystal about?

*Where did the GOO/Black Goo come from?

*What is in the Other Complexes?

This is where I part company with the fanbase.

To me all those questions are answered in the movie. These Engineers are Promethean they stole technology and began experimenting with a religious questing fervour. After many experiments using themselves as Hosts (now that is interesting where does this hosting procreation come from) they perfected the creature immortalised in the Mural and bottled it. 

However just as Weyland created for his own vain glorious purpose so had the Engineers of the Moon. Obviously when E & D reach Paradise the question of the relationship between the Moon and Paradise would be answered.

As the Engineers of the Moon were rebels using stolen technology those on the Homeworld would not look favourably on what they did. The implication of Damon's script is having stolen the technology and tried to use it, because it wasn't sanctioned "It got out" and turned on them. The philosophical failure of the Moon Engineers was expressed by what they created turning on them. 

The philosophical failings of the mission had the same outcome but Elizabeth was given a second chance and survived. 

As for the texture questions the Alter was altered to a Tomb to fit the dialogue and the Five Pyramids were dropped in late to give a more impressive sense of scale.

The average film goer has a more fundamental reason than the deep fan for being confused it is they went knowing it had the same DNA  as ALIEN saw a craft hit the ground which looked suspiciously like the derelict but wasn't and saw a riff at the end which seemed to be related to the creature in the original film but did not know how and as to the search for our creators they were told by Elizabeth this place isn't what we thought it was but then to give that point context the only way to find was to watch the next movie. So lots of unsatisfactory puzzles for the casual film goer. 

Incidentally these clarifications have nothing to do with my own personal interpretation some of my ideas contradict the above not for reasons of changing the myth but specific story telling purposes.

David woke in a beautiful stylised chair looks at the Nativity with the hole in the roof and a character pointing to Heaven and finally names himself after Michelangelo's beautiful sculpture the perfect embodiment of an aspirational transformational work created to be shared. Thats elliptical suggestive stroy telling which can be given significance and more so than might have been intended that however is different to saying what is the Moon all about.

The Moon is about why would you make monsters?  

@Michelle

I think that Indeed at the TIME that Prometheus had been Released on DVD then Certainly they (RS/DL) had a IDEA of where they would TAKE US for the Sequel.

Which brings me to... "The problem with all that for the studios is it would have meant making a film without a hapless crew and monsters"

Which is No Doubt one of the Problems they FACED when trying to Complete a Story they could be HAPPY with.  You have TWO of the Survivors from Prometheus of which ONLY the ONE is a Human, and they are OFF to where the Engineers come from, well whatever place they Determine the Last Engineer had referred to as PARADISE.

To have a Movie that would REVOLVE around just the TWO of those Survivors (Flash Backs/Dreams aside) is MAYBE something that NOT everyone would go to WATCH.

But they would NOT be ALONE as surely they would MEET some beings, Engineers? or some other Race? Surely Connected!

A Thought Provoking Story much like Blade Runner may have been CLOSER to where they Wanted to take us back in 2012. I think that the LAYERS of Creation and Associated Themes would have been Explored...

But i think a LOT of Fans were ONLY really interested in seeing the Engineers as Aggressive SOB's and they maybe would Expect the Engineers to be Portrayed as we saw in the COMICS.

And so the Journey of David and Dr Shaw would have HINGED on what KIND of beings they Discover and HOW they would React to David and Dr Shaw... if they are as Welcoming as the Last Engineer then the Movie would NOT be Long.....  UNLESS they take to Experimenting on Dr Shaw etc.

But as i have said and what my IDEA for HOW they could have Continued the Story... and Introduce more Humans does-not have to BOIL down to incoming Humans from Earth.   WHY CANT there be OTHERS in the  Galaxy that the Engineers had SEEDED or taken from Earth...

Or DID we even come from Earth?

Another Avenue for the Sequel could have been about WHERE it is that David wishes to GO!   As they said the Sacrificial Scene does-not have to be Earth....  And so i think WHERE it is that David takes Dr Shaw does-not have to be PARADISE.... he could go to another Place but then you have to THINK about WHY and WHERE.

I think when we are looking at a SEQUEL then in PART what may have been the Direction would be Questions that Dr Shaw had surely WANTED to be Answered...  it was UNLIKELY that the Answers that she GOT are what she would HOPE for and so those Answers she gets could have a IMPACT on her Character Arc.

There are OTHER Questions left by Prometheus but these are Mainly ones that the FANS would want to see Answered, like...

*What was LV-223 about? was it always a Outpost to Create Horrific Bio-Weapons?

*What was the Origins of those Experiments, when did they START and WHY?

*What was the MURAL and FRESCO?

*What was the ALTAR and Crystal about?

*Where did the GOO/Black Goo come from?

*What is in the Other Complexes?

Maybe some of these could had been Answered?  But maybe they could have been Answered in a Parallel Story about LV-223 so that David and Dr Shaw would be FREE to go on a Journey that does-not have to Answer the Mysteries of LV-223 that would TIE into the Xenomorph.

I think its NO WONDER they was having a HARD TIME to find the RIGHT STORY about where David and Dr Shaw go and WHAT they Discover.

Who knows HOW MUCH of the Story as Envisioned in 2012 had Remained by the time they got to 2015?

As Time goes on and EVEN in a Short Span of Time then Ideas can Change and Evolve, the Engineers Plot does allow for MANY MANY ways they could Expand on it.

I think its a REAL SHAME that we Ended up with Alien Covenant, and while some of the Themes/Arc of Prometheus is Carried Over via Davids Arc.  SADLY a lot of what a Prometheus 2 could have been was Sacrificed.

If you want to consider where the sequel was heading you have to be certain of where you came from. The only way to achieve that is to ask Ridley and Damon what they were thinking in 2012.

An authentic sequel has to take account of the following.

“It’s a donation, in the sense that the weight and the construction of the DNA of those aliens is way beyond what we can possibly imagine.” Adding that the planet isn’t necessarily Earth, he says, “No, it doesn’t have to be. That could be anywhere. That could be a planet anywhere. All he’s doing is acting as a gardener in space. And the plant life, in fact, is the disintegration of him.  If you parallel that idea with other sacrificial elements in history – which are clearly illustrated with the Mayans and the Incas – he would live for one year as a prince, and at the end of that year, he would be taken and donated to the gods.” 

“The Passion Of The Christ” could also be viewed as part of the “Alien” universe…. if you really think about it…. Or, after that, the Engineers simply abandoned humanity, we evolved, and they got pissed all over again when we came knocking on their door. It fits in line with what Lindelof said during press rounds for the film: “I’m all for ambiguity, but if we didn’t know the answer to that one (ed The Christ Incident), the audience would have every right to string us up. Yes. There is an answer. One that is hinted at within the goalposts of ‘Prometheus.’ I’ll bet if I asked you to take a guess you wouldn’t be far off.”

 And humanity was the offspring of some dark/rogue angels? That would seem to be the gist of it, and we guess that’s where a “Prometheus 2” would go if/when that should ever happen.

 “Now ‘Prometheus’ is ready to go off in its own direction on its own entirely different tangent that is not going to be reliant on the things we’ve seen a thousand times before.”

The Story of Valhalla as expressed by David in the Prologue of AC

 The Gods have rejected mankind as week cruel and filled with greed. So they are leaving the earth forever to their perfect home in the heavens. There every step is fraught with tragedy, and their power is an illusion. They are false God’s.

Elizabeth the person of faith, shaken, was going with David curious about what he was and put back together and responsive to Elizabeth were going to find that they were made by false (Promethean) Gods whose power is an illusion and what they sub create is the seed of their destruction. 

The problem with all that for the studios is it would have meant making a film without a hapless crew and monsters which would have explored in a surreal and unorthodox way the questions raised by Bladerunner.  

Regarding the Architecture i think looking at the PLOT then it would be that Ancient Structures on Earth are Influenced by the Engineers Designs.

The Engineer Complexes in Prometheus were more Basic than in Alien Covenant, its ONLY by going inside that those in Prometheus do reveal some Technology and Advancement in their Interior Construction.

The Cathedral in Alien Covenant was COLOSSAL

And so we did-not see much of the Inside of it, but then as a Place of Worship, a Building that is like a Parliament to them.  Then maybe it does-not have too much of a Advanced Aesthetic.

Many Buildings in the City look more Modern compared to say Ancient Rome or Greece.

I think a Disappointment for Fans and this applies to Prometheus too is they would have Expected the WORLD of the Space Jockey to look VERY much like a HR Giger Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.

But i think the KEY thing to Remember about PARADISE is that Especially if we look at the Biblical Context.

*It is NOT where GOD comes from!

*It is NOT where the Angels come from!

*It is the CRADLE of Creation (Humanoid)

*It is watched over by Cherubim Angels.

And so in Context to our Engineers who RS called Dark Angels and Fallen Angels then that means they are NOT the Gods.   They could be the WATCHERS.

So when we was going to Prometheus 2 if these Engineers are NOT the GODS but a Sub-Creation and so like ANGELS if you would then you COULD introduce a Hierarchy above them that are 10-15ft Tall

PS they dont have to have Beards ;)

"Either make the Engineers its creators or someone above the Engineer that made the Xeno"

That was INDEED the Idea prior to the U-Turn and Curve-ball in Summer of 2015.

The Purpose of my Back to the Future Series is to essentially allow Fans to REBOOT certain Parts of the Prequels and so PART 2 means to REBOOT what essentially is Alien Covenant.

Its to look at what YOU wanted and WOULD have done with a Prometheus 2.   The Set-Up for this ONE was mainly to look at WHERE it was that Dr Shaw and David would GO after they Left LV-223

And so when looking at a Alternative Prometheus 2 then you are FREE to go back to the Drawing Board with some Ideas.

David was Interesting from Prometheus, he was NOW FREE, we seemed to get the Indication that he was NOT treated VERY WELL by Mankind and so with Dr Shaw she could have Influenced the KIND of Person he could Become.

So there was that ARC that he could have come to be VERY FOND of Dr Shaw, and he would WANT to Protect her.  So IF they arrive at a WORLD of the Engineers and he sees them go to Miss-Treat her or become a THREAT to Her, then i think He would SMITE THEM! to Protect Dr Shaw.

Dr Shaw was VERY Naive and Stubborn "its what i Choose to Believe" with her going to ASK some HARD Questions to the Engineers or WHOEVER they Discover we have to Wonder WHAT is she Hopping to Gain?

She is Obviously not pleased with the Engineers, they Certainly are NOT what she thought the GODS would be and well they are NOT GODS.....  using her Faith then she cant FATHOM to WHY would a Godlike Race go and Create Mankind and Visit us, Teach and Nurture us and then WANT to Destroy us!

She had said that her GOD would never try and KILL her.... but in Reality then her GOD has KILLED before, when a GOD becomes Displeased and Angered then they SMITE!

So WAS she expecting to MEET some Benevolent Beings who would NOT want to Harm Mankind?  Was she looking to Find something that FITS with her Religion about GOD?

So the Potential was there that Dr Shaw would make Discoveries that would SHATTER her Faith.... there is NO LOVING and ALMIGHTY GOD...   These beings have Seeded other Worlds and to them we are about as Important as KEEPING a Fish Tank/Pond.    And that the LOSS of a Pond/Tank means they have Plenty of more Fish in the Galaxy Sea, and they just CLEAN out some PONDS/TANKS and Start Again when they FEEL like it with NO real Concerns for the Fish.

So she could then see that these BEINGS are Selfish to their OWN gains and they Dont Respect the Life they Create, to THEM then their Creations are just as we would View David....   so she could then THINK about WHAT RIGHT do these beings have to CREATE various Species then to just DESTROY them at a WHIM!

So there was Potential for the Revelations that Dr Shaw has to MAKE her Faith a SHAM! and Reveal our Creators to have NO CARE for their Creations....    This could BREAK her!

She could maybe see that these Engineers have NO LOVE for their Creations like her Faiths God has for Mankind, and so maybe she takes some Positives from her Faith as far as to LOVE your Creation and DEEM as the Engineers do-not and they could be a THREAT to go around to Many Worlds and simply DESTROY without Pity...

She could maybe then decided its time to KILL this Wanna be Gods ;)

@Blackant

Regarding your IDEA i dont mean any Disrespect but it is something that is VERY Comic/Video Game.  Which is NOT really a BAD thing as there would be a Market for such Ideas in the Fandom, and as a Movie its something that has NOT been done and so MAYBE it could work ;)

You see the Xenomorph is MAINLY known for its Incarnation from ALIENS.  Its Purpose is just to SURVIVE and it is somewhat a Invasive Species like a RAT/MOUSE but also like a ANT/TERMITE.   

DUMB BUGZ some may say.... but i have Defended the JC Xenomorphs in the Past as Showing signs of Intelligence for the ORIGINAL Versions (ALIEN) this Xenomorph just basically went around and KILLED its only the DC version that showed a Agenda to Procreate.

As much as this somewhat Intelligent Invasive Species are, i always thought you could NOT keep going back to that FORMULA before it gets STALE!

So you had to UPLIFT/EVOLVE the Xenomorph to CHANGE it be that a ENGINEERED UPGRADE or a EVOLUTIONARY ONE.

Because its ORIGINS appear to be just a Engineered Bio-Weapon that may have been Engineered from some Pre-existing Alien Species.  The David as Creator Plot would allow more Room to explore that the Xenomorph was intended to be MORE than to just KILL etc.

So your PLOT seems to go for having the Xenomorph Evolve and Advance and to SHOW that we have Barely Scratched the Surface of this Organisms Intelligence.

And so i Applaud your Attempt to UPLIFT the Xenomorph, i Certainly think it could be Interesting and Especially if we look at it from a ENGINEERED UPGRADE.

If we looked at the NEW version of The Planet of the Apes then we see this was a HUBRIS of Mankind trying to Experiment with Apes.... i think it would be FITTING if we had Xenomorphs that were Captured and Experimented on and this Lead to a Xenomorph that would become more Inteligent and able to Re-Write its DNA so that it can Create Hybrids for Certain Tasks and THIS becomes a HUGE HUBRIS after a Outbreak and Escape by these Xenomorphs.

And they then SPREAD around the World.

I will add that i am NOT sure i ever came across when you had Mentioned this IDEA before.  Its something that i Certainly think a Game/Comic could work with.   And if its DONE RIGHT then it maybe could Work as a Movie, it Certainly could be something that would GAIN more Attention and Make Money $$$$ compared to Following on with where David is going NEXT.

@BlackAnt,

Help me, Daddy.  Please.  It hurts.  Make it stop.  Make it stop.

You might enjoy the original screenplay, lol.

To the OP- LOL- here we are a year later talking about it!

BlackAnt I thought your story ideas were sound enough. Lots of fans have good spin off stories that are better than their source material, so giving up might be premature.

The views on AVPR make sense and are generous. Yes, there were good ideas and some decent scenes, but as a whole, it's just not good enough to re-watch to see certain scenes imo. The actors themselves weren't bad yet I felt nothing for their characters. I think BigDave sort of nailed it- it was poorly written and executed. 

It's too bad since AVP was a solid action scifi popcorn flick that I will re-watch for sheer entertainment.

"So before I critique this film property in all fairness"

I think that the PLOT was not BAD it was the Characters and Writing and Execution, there was some Interesting Ideas, its just the way the Story was Wrote and Executed was well.... bit Crap Really ;)

But for me the same is to be said with  The Predator

I had tried to watch AVPR for a 4th Time but could not, and i had tried to watch The Predator for a 3rd and well i GAVE UP lol

"@DK
No Offense ever taken, Everyone is Entitled to their OWN opinions ;)"

I meant Thoughts_Dreams in response to "dont take this Personally" ;)

"Yes we saw the hall of heads but I don’t think that we saw more than that in Covenant "

I think that we should have seen more about the Engineers Certainly.

When your looking at ALIEN we had the Eggs, but this WAS NOT going to be the Focus on a Prequel (by the time we got Prometheus)

So then from ALIEN you had to then look at the Space Jockey, which our Engineers Plot had become and then we see the Experiments on LV-223 and so you would EXPECT a Sequel to show more about the Engineers and MAYBE about the Black Goo and Experiments.

We was also LEFT to Wonder.... WHY they Created us and wanted to DESTROY us..... but also WHY they was Messing About with all that STUFF on LV-223.

with Alien Covenant then all of this was just deemed NOT IMPORTANT...  it was about the Themes through the EYES/ARC of DAVID.... which was too much, well it came at the Sacrifice of the Engineers.

" I'm trying to find a way why they didn't destroy all of humanity while having some interesting battle scenes. Sure it might cost some money but Star Wars usually gets it right"

I have said it a Number of Times, they could have had it that the ENGINEERS had NOT ONLY had Humans on Earth ;)

With a Large Galaxy, never mind OTHERS and with a PLOT where our Engineers have been around a LONG LONG Time, then we could have Explored them in a Place FAR FAR away where there are other Humans and other Races and Conflicts.

Sadly i think the Prequels and MOST of what they shown is DEAD i certainly cant see Disney going to Invest in that, and Certainly they WONT give us a Continuation to AC.

@DK
No Offense ever taken, Everyone is Entitled to their OWN opinions ;)

Regarding Blomkamp who knows what was his Agenda behind his LEAK... i guess a Guy has gotta do what he Gotta do to get some Business... i think he was NOT that Happy wit the Prequels?  Who knows... we can only Speculate as to WHY he choose to Leak his Alien V

I have been around and SEEN the Disappointment with Prometheus as far as WHAT some Fans Expected, and lets all be HONEST for a Moment... I dont think MANY would have said that the PLOT was Quite what we Expected.

But i think some was Confused to WHAT it was that Actually Prometheus was trying to BE... the Trailers could be Misleading.   But those who watched the Movie and knew more about it CERTAINLY had more Complaints than the Movie had NO CONNECTION to ALIEN or Xenomorphs.

Not EVERYONE chooses to say what they Feel on Websites like this or IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes....  I think that as a MOVIE then Prometheus indeed had more FLAWS than to SIMPLY not have any Xenomorphs.

I dont really Blame  either Ridley Scott or Blomkamp, its those in POWER at FOX who had Decided to TAKE OUT the Xenomorph and Connections, and then to FORCE them back in.

The Characters and some of the Actions by them are REALLY not that GREAT ;)

Here is WHAT i felt went Wrong with Prometheus from a PLOT POV i found that the REMOVAL of the Xenomorph and Clues was FINE but they NEVER replaced it with something Similar, it was kept too VAGUE for Many and while some Mystery is Good for some Fans then you SHOULD NOT have to watch a Movie Multiple Times and look at Directors Comments and all SORTS to TRY and gain some better Understanding.

The Aftermath to Prometheus i think some of us GOT IT we had Accepted that we are likely to get SPIN OFF that would STEER AWAY from ALIEN and Xenomorphs.

I think for a Number of Fans the Sequel seemed to SET-UP that we are NOT going to get LV-426 Answers or Xenomorphs, but that we would be going to DISCOVERY more about the Engineers and their Agenda, and that Dr Shaw would be ASKING some Tough Questions for them.

Maybe some would have WANTED some Answers to LV-223 as there was  LOT of Mystery there.

I DONT think that we would have Expected that Dr Shaw and the Engineers would have been Brushed Under the Carpet with the Emphasis NOW on the Xenomorph Creation but this ONLY being to Elevate the Creation Themes in Regards to DAVID.

Characters aside..... the Sequel had ENDED UP being about DAVID, the Xenomorph was 2nd Fiddle, the Engineers and Dr Shaw even LESS.... it was about DAVID... it was HIS PREQUEL Story.

Which is NOT what MOST of us would have Expected before we GOT to  Prequel.

I had spend a LOT of Time on here and was  AWARE of other Sites etc regarding the Prometheus Sequel... 2012-2013 its seemed they had a VISION which was to STEER AWAY from the Xenomorph but then they COULD-NOT really Settle on a Finished Story and it WENT QUIET.

At the Time of Blomkamps Alien V idea it did seem to get a LOT of Excitement, it was NICE for Fans to here and see some Works being made regarding another ALIEN Movie and especially with it QUIET on the Prometheus 2 Front.

Something had CAUSED FOX to think that they should Change P2 to become more a Direct Prequel and bring the Xenomorph back.... as far as DAVID the Creator Goes who REALLY knows 100% WHY this Curve-ball came about.

It was a UNNECESSARY PLOT Choice ;) One they surely SHOULD have known would cause a UPROAR... unless this was RS giving the Fans/Fox the Finger because he HAD to bring the Xenomorph back etc.

We are in  PICKLE for Sure Now!

The SET-UP seems to be about WHAT it is that DAVID would do NEXT..... and then HOW we get to LV-426 which would surely NEED like 2 More Movies..... which would be MAINLY about DAVID and well i just dont think their is the INTEREST in that.

@Everyone

“Yeah, well...it's one of those films that had enormous raw potential...but just failed for many reasons.”

Great opening paragraph Blackwinter-witch. I think it is right here that I would most fervently disagree with almost every bad thing stated about this film.

Just a small synopsis….we get the predalien onboard the Predator ship, it crashes on Earth, a human city is exposed, a Predator on their home world is tasked with neutralizing the situation on Earth, a large battle ensues, and humanity is victorious in the end.

So before I critique this film properly in all fairness….please no backlash against me personally for my opinions….we are all here to discuss things alien, have fun, and foster a great community for everyone.

I went into this film with high expectations. The film went through it’s motions and I genuinely liked the film overall. I think the performances as a whole were decent, the special effects exceptional for their time, the plot was something that just interested me for personal reasons (will explain more about that later), there were many unique scenes in the film, we got a first introduction to the Predator home world, the fight sequences were enhanced with different modalities then previous films, and overall the film brought a Xeno to Earth.

The possibilities of a Xeno on Earth was both interesting conceptually and thematically for me.

For me personally I enjoy getting lost in all Alien films, even if there are only parts of the film that I like, because I like science fiction in film that much overall.

I agree the raw potential of this film as an uncut diamond the size of a fist was there…as the budget for this film, the plot, the production of the film cut away through its treatment of concepts made by RS originally, and many others, it failed to yield the finer more brilliant cut stone that we all wanted….

So much of this film however did resonate with me. I felt the tension for survival by the humans in this production to be real enough when faced with aliens much more powerful than them. I enjoyed their attempts to evade and escape an impending doom.

I also enjoyed very much the Colonel listening in on the jet then calling in the air strike.

I liked the pool scene very much where the Predator dissolved what was in the pool.

I was very impressed with the Predator home world and enjoyed the intricate articulation of the mechanized Predator chair and it's computers.

The hospital battle was intense, exciting, and visually exciting for me.

I especially enjoyed the Predator ship crash landing on Earth and the man and his son getting exposed.

For me obviously then I liked many parts of the film; however, overall I think the movie is ok. I still enjoy what strengths it has and will stick with that…in other words I would rather have it then not just because it is an Alien film.

Years prior I had written a small treatment set in on a future Earth, which was dismissed by other Alien forum contributors, that was not well received.

Here is a quick synopsis of that treatment. There is a future Earth where resources are exhausted battling an ever growing global Xeno infestation. We are down to last remaining military outposts around the world and free humans are on the verge of extinction.

Inside large new Xeno cities we would see never seen before complex Xeno behavior and battle tactics on a global scale…..the Xenos build large city sized hives where humans are cultivated as a food source ….more than one hundred years have passed since they over took the planet….so they breed and harvest humans for food throughout these global system of hives…..they secrete a range of molecules that when ingested by humans causes them to reproduce….they take the babies and harvest them, then separating the babies from the human breeders….and harvest us by the millions…..as the babies mature they have no fear of the Xenos tending them, humans play run around Xeno with out a care in the Xeno hives; but, by a certain age they use humans as food sustaining all the Xenos in the hives. A never seen before Xeno feeds back to the humans a semi digested eatable rich nutritional secretion so the adult breeders are sustained. And you can imagine how this would all look and sound….humans that have no language, are completely obedient of these Xeno hives, how it might look with many Queens in the hives….the drones feeding the Queens live humans slowly, part ritual, feeding, and pleasurable for the Xenos on some intelligent level.

Then I intended on the human resistance to be equally as formidable so they could go into the hives undetected on reconnaissance missions through stealth and study how to neutralize the global colonies.

I also intended for there to be many new Xeno chimeras that are far more formidable at protecting the drones and Queens inside the hives….very powerful and fast Xenos that can kill instantly with many more types of weapons.

As I stated this was not well received and I really do not care…it was something I dreamed up and to this day enjoy thinking about the potential of such a large conflict…it’s complexities, how the human characters would feel in their deep subterranean cities…where there is power, food, more advanced computers, military science, and human devotion to survival at all costs.

I wanted there to be much desperation, the loss of never ending battles with the new Xenomorphs, the inexplicable fear of sacrificing personal survival for information gained by going into the hives. Most of the reconnaissance missions never return so they are mostly a one way ticket in but never back out.

When I saw AVPR I got a small glimpse of those possibilities taking place in a distant future Earth timeline….I wanted something more profoundly deadly at all points in-between, dark and seductively sinister.....for me the Xeno was never played out just other peoples ideas about what was really possible was tired and played out....I never thought the Xeno was done, and actually wanted to see much more of the Xeno in a much richer complexity and what that might mean…..so that we see the Xeno infestation as a more diversely connected cohesive whole throughout nature itself as they completely overwhelm all the different systems of Earth’s biology.

More often than not I strive to see more potential in all these films than less. They take me down the rabbit hole and can be a good place to start a new story, if nothing else just for artistic purposes.

The Vignette 'En-Route' that is to bridge the first story to the Sequel...

Has become a full-out short story. It's RAW, crude and splintery-rough...needs tons of editing, but it is coming along.

I think, it'll be ready in a few days...maybe a week??

But 'soon'...ish, that's for sure.

AVPR...

Yeah, well...it's one of those films that had enormous raw potential...but just failed for many reasons.

Interesting ideas were in it, but as has been said, poor execution, and likely the timing of it's release.

I do NOT--and NEVER will consider AVP nor AVPR to be even light years close to Canon, they're money-maker monster-bash movies, plain and simple.

Taken by themselves, as stand-alones...AVP and AVPR are pretty good monster movies, akin to The Blob and such.

BUT...connecting it to the ALIEN and Predator franchises...was risky, and AVP did okay...AVPR, well...it speaks for itself about rolling the dice too often.

IF AVP had involved NEW/Unique monsters...then these two films might well have given rise to a new franchise.

Failed gamble and a wasted opportunity is what they both are.

But...Hollywood. (shrug)

AVPR, is so bad, it makes me very glad for my mangled glasses frames as even if it comes on, I only have the migraine from the glasses to cope with and can't really see that abomination of a movie. :D

AVPR only has one redeeming feature: one of the lead characters has a hot body.

Leto

I have an idea, you mention pharmaceutical companies. Medicines are something that people might look at as a automatically good thing but what if that company is trying to do something that looks good on the outside and is nasty on the inside in how the company works. This could continue the theme of corporate fuckery but it's another sort of company maybe not in its ultimate aim but in how they look at the outside. Maybe the theme could be that what could be decent people and how they become corrupt when they get into situations or structures where the aim is to just get benefits yourself and screw everyone over even though there are sides of you as an individual that are likable.

What if they have tried different things but that it didn't work but then they get to know that the Xeno could be beneficial for its genetic structure or whatever when it comes to making new medicines. Unfortunately it has a side-effect which they know about but they have put a lot of money into developing it so they want to get money from what they have put into the development of that. As with WY human lives are expendable to quote a famous movie. ;)

NTFS:

"What concepts are left for the Alien series?"

There are parts that can be used and given an alien-twist. Just because other things have been used in other movies doesn't mean that they must be put on the shelf and never be revisited. Coming up with something completely new is difficult but if they can be used in the franchise and be used in a clever way then why not?

SuperAlien:

Maybe that was the reason why they released it? To show us that they could do better than AVPR. It’s like “Hey we can redeem ourselves!” :D

The problem is that when you have reached the absolute bottom then there is only one direction to go: up.

“So ONCE again let see HOW or WHAT some of you would have Preferred.“

Fair enough although I'm not sure if it is about which draft I would have wanted to see as a movie or if the question is how I would have liked a movie to be. I will answer the latter question since it seems to be more interesting.

"Dr Shaw and David VS Thousands, Millions of Evil Technologically Advanced SOBS!"

I understand that it's a problem that is difficult to solve. I would have liked a story with focus on the humans, and better human characters. This would require a writer that knows how to do that. When I say better human characters think Star Wars and the first three movies. Much less about the androids although they could be in some scenes, and nothing of the "android made the monster"-thing. Either make the Engineers its creators or someone above the Engineer that made the Xeno. The point of that is to keep the mystery about it but that we get some sort of answer that isn't too obvious and not too vague. Perhaps this answer isn't much to the point but I'm not sure how to give a satisfying answer.

Getting to know more about the Engineers and their society would've been interesting. Tie it to the space-Jockey either as an Engineer or like a cousin to them. Keep their planet bigger and more Gieger-esque. Some of it could have been bio-mechanical but also some Gothic stuff could work, it should look different and scary but everything doesn't need to look the same. Maybe it would look scary to us, not to them but the unknown can make us uncomfortable. Have the Engineers as much taller than in Alien Covenant so they get bigger buildings, what we think is big on earth might be small to the Engineers which could help the story. All the Engineers don't have to be of the same size but they should look more different compared to AC. The differences in how they look in AC compared to Prometheus was just strange. I didn't doubt that they were Engineers but maybe someone else did because of how different they looked.

“A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY”

Nah, human greed and an inability to learn from mistakes takes care of that. I understand your point but I wouldn't like it in the movie.

About regenerating Xenos, I don't like it. It would make the Xenos too cartoony in a lack of a better word.

“So its not in anyway a FACT/CANON kind of Topic but a Re-Writing of History as a Alternative.”

I like it, it is a good topic.

This house might look big to us but maybe it would be small to the Engineers, who knows? A Gothic city could look interesting estethically speaking so no stone huts please. Some people might think that it still isn't different enough but it could be. If they had Gothic looking buildings then when we made Gothisism on earth well the Engineers might have made that earlier, it is just that we didn’t know about it. Mankind thinks that it is the first but just makes a close version, like David and the Xeno. Perhaps I got an idea there but I am not sure if people would have picked up on that. Mankind makes a copy of the Engineer's esthetics, David makes a copy of the Engineers monster and besides he was made by humans, so he is close to a copy since people already exist. Very few things are really new, just like AC had a lot of copied things from earlier movies. ;) There is a possibility to make your own version though… like it should have been in AC.

No David and maybe no Shaw, get rid of them at least the robot. David since I don't like android-movies, and Shaw because she was dumb but if they would have kept her in a smaller role alive and written better like in the Crossing it could have worked. What if David was curious and be dangerous in that way, not that he would be overtly evil as in Covenant he just doesn’t see the consequences of what he does.

He could have a small role and be killed a bit into the movie, like maybe after 20% is over. If we have a movie that is 2 hours and 20 minutes so they could have more and better scenes that flesh out the characters David could be there for maybe 10-15 minutes. You should better know that I am less concerned about the run-time, I am more about getting a good story and characters. No keeping it down to two hours just to sell tickets because that means cutting things out that could have improved the movie, both Prometheus and AC suffered from that. At the same time if you make a decent script that shouldn't be as much of a problem but when the script isn't very good that becomes a thing. Make a good movie and it is more likely that people will watch it, less run time means a bigger risk for good scenes to be cut out that would make a better movie. A better movie means that potentially more people will watch it (word of mouth) so you get more money.

In case they made us, then why? Were me made just for fun (because they could)? Were me made to serve the Engineers? Did they create mankind but we went wrong? Did they create life on other planets? Is there any material that shows that as being the case like sketches or scientific formulas or something?

Engineer society with art, architecture, how they have their society could be interesting. Think about ancient Rome. They should have scientists that are a part of manufacturing the monsters like we have biological weapons. Not all of them need to be technologically advanced, know about technology. Have them being some sort of religious with priests and that, who knows what that would look like exactly?

We know that the Engineers would not be happy with mankind so I imagine a space-battle between the Engineers and humans. Maybe something else than that I am not sure but it could be interesting. The Engineers would have created the Xeno, not David or at least the Engineers would have found something that they made the Xeno from. Keep the goo as a secret, not like David did when he talked about it because it ruined some mystery but I prefer to believe that David was sort of hallucinating and talked nonsense about it in Covenant.

BD
“Because well the Prequels are Broken maybe Beyond Repair…”

Maybe, but I blame it on crappy characters and a focus on a mad robot. It’s too bad because they could have been good movies.

I understand that they were in a tough situation when it came to getting a script. When I think about how Prometheus ended I can see that. Not sure if you can blame Blomkamp that much because if Prometheus would have been better I guess that people wouldn't have been that excited about it. Blaming Blomkamp for it seems to be a thing that is too easy to do. If the theatrical version of Prometheus wouldn't have been that poor then maybe more people would have liked to follow the next one, but I understand what you mean.

". . . it seemed at this Time that Fans were a BIT disappointed with Prometheus."

Who wouldn't be? Poorly developed characters that were doing stupid things, that's what I didn't like about it. Look around on the www and you will see that many had a problem with it. Actually I read a lot of reviews on the www that said the same thing. The monster issue was further down on the list compared to that. Blaming the lack of Xenos that you have done before is to miss the criticism I think especially when it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue compared to that. Scott and Fox thought that the lack of the original monster was a big problem, it doesn’t seem so when you hear what people actually found to be bad.

I take a quote from this page:

"An entire cast of talented actors is wasted in this movie and they all do their best with their underdeveloped stock characters." http://thebrooklynmouth.com/film/prometheus-movie-review

"The characters are thin and emotionles. . . " https://www.timeout.com/movies/prometheus

"It is a silly movie, filled with characters and situations that aren‘t remotely believable. ..” https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/06/11/review-prometheus-is-a-visually-stunning-epic-failure/

“everyone displays a dangerously cavalier attitude to breathing in unknown atmospheres, and our heroine's mutant buzzkill of a boyfriend has just knocked her up with a giant thrashing squid.” https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2013/jun/14/prometheus-ridley-scott-recap

"Among the actors, only Fassbender finds a character worth inhabiting and enriching." https://entertainment.time.com/2012/06/05/prometheus-alien-minus-one/

I can dig up lots of similar comments (Rotten Tomatoes is the same), my point is that the lack of Xenos isn't what it was about. At the same time I got to say that a lot of the unused ideas would have been better if they would have been in Prometheus. Yes I would rather have had something that was closer to Alien Engineers although maybe not exactly that movie for example we didn't need to see as many monsters as in Alien Engineers.

"Excitement about Blomkamps Alien V"

That could have been one of the reasons but if the characters in Prometheus wouldn't have been stupid I guess that people wouldn't have cared as much about Alien 5. I think that a bit isn't the grade of disappointment that was against Prometheus, a big disappointment is more accurate it seems to me because that is how I felt. For some reason I refuse to believe (pun!) that I was the only person that felt very let-down by Prometheus. When Ridley came on as a producer for Alien 5 that is when it can be argued that it was rejected. Not to say that I would have liked to see an Alien 5 but that is how I read it. Fox had to choose between Blomkamp and Scott and Scott is more known so that's how it is.

Abandoning Alien 5 didn't make it better because the main problem was still there, crappy characters. Adding a Xenomorph to Alien Covenant didn't solve anything, it actually made things worse (David as the creator). The problems were bigger than an eventual Alien 5 is what I would argue. For example the last time we had an alien movie with decent characters was Alien 3 and Blomkamp had nothing to do with Prometheus even though it had the same problem. He gets too much of the blame and no I haven't seen any of his movies.

"... and so you would always then have to LOOK at what would be Davids Agenda and WHAT would he want to do… They seemed to indicate that Davids Agenda to Create played a Large Role "

OK, but if that's the case they should have written Prometheus in a better way or at least ended it differently. Not sure what they could have done but how it ended created a problem but I can see how it was done though. If that was their way of thinking that Davids agenda was important then it seems to me that's when it went wrong because it's too much about an android, a bad idea for an alien-movie. He was interesting in Prometheus but I didn't want a movie centered around him. About Shaw, I wondered if they were sure about that she would be as little in it from the beginning when they started to work on AC compared to how it ended up.

"To then Shortly after Prometheus that they COULD indeed Procreate but they had CHOSEN to NOT do so, but USE other means to Create."

That could have been interesting to see, at least parts of it. Don't show it in detail just give some clues to keep some mystery.

"Those Planet 4 Engineers were NOT a Mistake they was INTENDED to look how they did."

Fair enough, but some of them should have looked more like those in Prometheus, to get a mix and to see more of how their society looked like. Those in Covenant didn't have to look exactly like the one in Prometheus, just bigger and more interesting. By bigger I don't mean like the SJ but closer (not a copy which is important) to the one in Prometheus compared to what we got. One of the dissapointments about Covenant was that they didn’t have more in detail about the Engineers.

". . . but it seemed they said the Revelation of those Engineers Role and WHO had Created them is a Curve-Ball… So Who Created Them?  maybe if that Answer was US! then that would have been a Curve-ball.  "

Hopefully mankind didn't create them, that would be really lame. They already tied the Xeno indirectly to humans via David and that was crappy so if that would be true they would have destroyed the Engineers also. Two interesting things down the shitter. What the prequels have done this far is to turn some interesting ideas into a dissapointing reality, don’t take this personal but that is how I look at it. I think that you can make it more mysterious than that but you got to be creative. Maybe those that had created them were closer to the SJ type of beings? Story-wise it would have been awesome and could have opened up the Alien-universe even further than Prometheus did.
"So i was kind of Wondering if the Source was hinting that the Creators of the Engineers would be much more like Humans and indeed those in Prometheus are Engineered Creations."

It's not impossible but I think that they should be more mysterious, like human-like but not totally. You have the Engineers that remind us of humans in how they look so that would be interesting if the creators of the Engineers would look even less like us compared to the Engineers that we have seen this far at least. Having the creators of the Engineers look less human would add much needed mystery to it. Look at how the Orchs look, that could have been something.

"Low and Behold in 2017 we saw some Concepts for Alien Covenant that was by TWO different Artist that Featured beings who looked... HUMAN!"

Was that the thing outside of the cave that you posted? Not too impressed with that but it makes me wonder what could be in that cave. It is like when you see an old photo of a house that looks very different from those that we have now, that makes you wonder how it might have looked inside. That building gives me the same sense of curiosity and wonder. Yes we saw the hall of heads but I don’t think that we saw more than that in Covenant even though I think that they should have given us more related to the Engineers.

About the Xeno, yeah that is what I heard too like the studio said that he needed a Xeno or else there would be no movie. Didn't the Xeno just appear and then quickly got killed by that crane? This is how I remember it, that was lame. It was like he said "there, you got your monster, happy now?" so it got introduced fast and killed fast.

Two hours is a problem too, it is like they chase a run-time instead of getting a good movie. Just do what you need to get a good movie and people will more likely give it a better score than if you cut important things out like they did with AC and P. Focus on what is best for the movie, not to get it down to 2 hours, 1.5, or what ever.

"Angry Engineers and especially the Prometheus Kind on a World with Vast Technology in Large Numbers with Humans"

That would be difficult but I think that it could maybe work if humans had spread to other galaxies or worlds. You mentioned hubris, maybe that could be something for the Engineers so they wouldn't try to destroy us again because maybe mankind had become too advanced? I'm trying to find a way why they didn't destroy all of humanity while having some interesting battle scenes. Sure it might cost some money but Star Wars usually gets it right, it doesn't need to last for too long either since you could imply whatever it might be and make a mystery but have it in a way that makes sense for people. Yes Star Wars is a bigger franchise but technically they could get it to work.

"I think then you have it that they was Concerned with David for the same reasons they Feared/Regretted the LV-223 Types, and we have David then Unleash the Pathogen on them."

Maybe it could work, I am not sure, but at least AC wasn't that good. Eventually it still gives David too much of a role and that would be bad. Humans could have made it to another planet, terramorphing anyone? ;) Shaw could have been in it if she was better written, like how she was in The Crossing compared to Prometheus. Perhaps David tried to experiment on her but she escapes and helps the humans against David and the monsters because at least she knows how dangerous David can be. How could she survive the experiments? She survived a surgery, so it’s possible. If she would stay alive the whole movie is another issue.

I found a script at a web page and as far as I can see when I compare to the movie it seems legit. I enjoy to read it but it lacks when it comes to the characters, it seems that too many are there just for the purpose of throwing characters into the movie, they don’t mean too much. Faris, Oram, David, and Walter seem to be written so they have some sort of personality but the rest, nah. Unfortunatly there were too many names without personality, just like in the movie. Couldn't they see that the characters were underwhelming? They needed to be more fleshed out before they started to shoot it. Some of them were just descriptions of how they looked, like Cole, and Lope. Are we supposed to care about them? Sorry but it doesn't work. Half way in it becomes about David, which is for the worse. Another problem was that it was too slow (I tried to imagine myself looking at it as a movie on the screen). Nope, they should have given it to another writer but it's difficult since Ridley just cared about Walter, David, and maybe Oram and it shows since he influences the script and come up with crappy stuff.

Get rid of David totally or at least heavily reduce his role to a cameo. Bishop's head in A3 should be a hint of his screen-time the way I would prefer to have it or maybe two short scenes but not more. Some people might like his part so they got to get something but I am done with him.

". . . more about the Engineers (Aggressive SOB LV-223 kind) they would want something to SHOW that David could NOT have Created the Xenomorph, and a Fair Share would want David out of the Picture in General."

I would like to see more about the Engineer society in general not just steroid Engineers. Those in Prometheus but also some of those in Covenant, a mix could work if it is fleshed out and not a small footnote. We have Jabba's palace in Star Wars 6 but they could spend less time in the Engineer head-quarters so to speak. Honestly I’m not 100% sure where I’m going with this but more about the Engineers would be nice. As far as David is concerned see my comment above the recent quote.

"Now if you ask ALIEN Fans... they would Associate other Elements too, but in General then ALIEN is Synonymous with Ripley and Xenomorphs."

It could be expanded, but I see what you mean. We don’t need to be stuck with Ripley forever. Not very interested to see the monster that we have seen again and again. Uplift the role of the Engineers and go from there. The black goo could be used in some way, not sure how though but it has a potential. Those at the AVPGalaxy-podcast called the goo a plot-device but it could be more than that.

"Are the ENGINEERS now DONE WITH?
Does the Black Goo not even EXIST?"

I would say no to both of those questions. The Engineers could still be around but they got to be better done and make morse sense. Maybe the goo is around somewhere but we don’t know where, there are various types of stone that isn't limited to our planet eventually it's the same with the goo.

"But thats down to the Limits of the Imaginations of those Working on the Project."  

To an extent but don't forget the issue with the budget. You got to have an interesting story and a director that understands that you need more than themes to get it right..

About Disney and what they might do, that’s interesting. I will say this: if you are going to do a repetition then leave it alone. To get stuck in the past is boring. You got to have someone that knows how to make a good story with chara

cters to care about and one that doesn't cut the movie into crap. Sorry but I am done with Scott having as much of a say that he has now at least story-wise even though it isn't only about him.
“… so the Engineers could take Davids Xenomorph and EVOLVE it to get to those Eggs on LV-426... it does not mean it would have been GOOD because that comes down to Execution of a Plot and the Characters.”

I would accept that because at least it would solve one problem. I also agree that it wouldn’t sole everything because there are more problem than that.

CGI is something that at least the original Avatar got right but it didn’t look very real. This how I remember it so I can be mistaken but anyways Alien got to have that look of realism. Alien is not an animated thing and would probably not work as it either. You mention the sacrificial Elders Engineers but with them cut out it makes less sense. For that to work you got to have them in Prometheus but they weren’t so it gets confusing for many at least although I could see some connection.

"I know some was UPSET at the more Roman look, but then the PLOT is supposed to indicate that the Engineers Architecture had Influenced some of our Ancient Past."

I understand what you mean but it still looked boring. Yes it didn’t have to look like it is on earth but bigger and more awe-inspiring. Still the Engineers are not human so we didn’t copy them but maybe got influenced by it, that is a difference so it should be shown. You made an interesting point when you tied it to the Juggernaut. The SJ could maybe look a bit different from the Engineers but how different is another issue. Parts of the Engineers were alright and there are parts that are just “eh”. Like a Ganesha-type? Please no, I can’t take it seriously. 

You .mean this one?

It reminds me of the myth of Lamia. Or the Big Bad Wolf.

What are the white stains on the Mother's outfit, is it android blood?

Roger G episode 5 has the highest mark on IMDB, higher than episode 1.

Roger G Good to know. I think directors or even writers change through different episodes, so that might have something to do with it?

I think you could ALWAYS had introduced a Hierarchy above the Engineers, a Race who are TALLER.  If Ridley Scott claimed they are Fallen/Dark Angels then this means there is LIKELY a Layer/Creator above them.

And so this RACE could be Introduced as the Space Jockey and the Creators of our BLUE MEANIE LV-223 GUYS!

Regarding the BUDGET.

I think that YES those Limit you as far as Special Effects, but then if we going to go for OH PRETTY CGI like say Avatar if you DONT get it Right it can look VERY FAKE... to me even Avatar came across a bit Cartoonish.... but for its AGE it was Good just looked too POLISHED and like a Pixar.

With Planet 4 being VERY Earth like its a Convenience as it Saves on Budget..... but it also FITS with the PLOT... if these Engineers Seed Worlds, they maybe Terra-form them to a Degree first and maybe they SEED the FLORA too.

We never got to go to Oriage-6 but i would assume it would look a LOT like Kepler22B from Raised by Wolves.

The Engineers i think some think they was a Result of Budget Cuts, but for a SHORT Scene...  then a Lighter More Glossy Paint applied and Black Out Sclera Contacts and they would have Appeared much more CLOSER and it would NOT have made a Massive Difference to the Budget.

It seems they was going for more of a Sacrificial Scene Elders look as far as Clothing etc, to go and have the Bio-Suited LV-223 Engineers in Numbers would COST a Fair Bit of Money.

The Digital City could have had more of that Prometheus Interior of Complexes Aesthetic but someone had decided to TONE away from the Atheistic apart from the Ships.

I know some was UPSET at the more Roman look, but then the PLOT is supposed to indicate that the Engineers Architecture had Influenced some of our Ancient Past.  I think the Buildings just Needed a LITTLE MORE of the Aesthetic of the Juggernauts interior.. even if this was mainly INSIDE of the Buildings.

">>>getting our Engineers back

Or maybe the classic Space Jockey?!"

I think the OPTION is always there to have the Space Jockey being DIFFERENT to the Engineers, certainly prior to Alien Covenant....    I think it depends on HOW DIFFERENT.

I think back to the OT as far as the IMPACT of a ALIEN Movie that could maybe REPLACE some of the Franchise as Canon, then IF the Prequels are to be Considered as NEVER HAPPENED.

Then YES down the LINE they could RE-INVENT the Space Jockey, but i think EVEN then you may NOT please everyone, as some Fans may actually be Pleased with the Prometheus Engineers.

The Engineers are not the GODS thats for Sure... it seems there was a intended Hierarchy above them and so they could have USED this to be the Space Jockey as another 12ft Humanoid Species.

The Engineers actually ended up NOT being as TALL as some of the Ancient Gods are depicted... they also LACK the Facial Hair ;) LOL

Or do we go for a Elephantine Alien instead?

"No. The main problem is the budget"

The Budget does Limit stuff, i will come back to that though, what i mean was by lack of Imagination was in regards to HOW do they introduce Humans to the STORY as we ONLY had Dr Shaw as the Human...  so by that i mean that we have this PLOT you know Space Gardeners, Seeders of Worlds who go and Visit the Worlds they Seed.  With such a PLOT then maybe its UNLIKELY that the Earth was the ONLY place where they had Raised/Engineered Humans.

So i felt you never had to MAKE the Engineer Home-world to be RIGHT on our Door Step to allow for more Humans to arrive, i had Envisioned and Discussed on here with my Prometheus Sequel ideas back in 2013/2014 that IF we saw Dr Shaw arrive at a World that had other Humans.. she would be like SURPRISED to find other Humans who are FAR FAR from Earth, and then HOW would they React at seeing their Own Kind but in Space Suits and with a Look-a-like (David) who is NOT at all Human.

The idea was QUITE a lot like Raised by Wolves to a Degree, where they (David and Dr Shaw) would arrive at a Place that had other Humans, plus maybe few other Humanoids who was Watched Over by a Handful of Engineers.  These Engineers would become Concerned at the Influence that Dr Shaw would have over those Inhabitants, and also Very Concerned with David.

Planet 4 as far as Location was a Convenience so that Incoming Humans from Earth would arrive, and SET-UP some Events that would eventually TIE into ALIEN

If the Xenomorph Plot was not ADDED then the World that Dr Shaw and David would arrive at could have been Much Further away and a Incoming Colony ship could arrive at a Latter Time and NOT be retrained to Arrive prior to ALIEN so that the Xenomorph Origin can be Tied in...

Regarding the Xenomorph....

I would say YES we are looking at the Protomorph, and RS had even said that Davids Creation has to Evolve some more before we get to ALIEN and so what we had is that WITHOUT the Experiments by David on Planet 4 then there would be NO EGGS on LV-426.

This does-not mean that David is the Creator of those Eggs, it means that those Eggs have their Origins from his Creation and so the Engineers could take Davids Xenomorph and EVOLVE it to get to those Eggs on LV-426.

I think this was a Unnecessary Plot... you NEVER had to do this to GO with the Creation Arc of David....

David could have Created something like those... have a Face Hugger and Egg thats Different too, and maybe you show this Beast go and Egg Morph a Victim.

You see Davids Workshop and Notes more Clear, give some Dialect about the Engineers creating the Deacon and that he (David) was Engineering it back to its more PURE form.

SIMPLE... enough Clues to maybe HOW the Xenomorph could have came about, you have Davids Creation Arc intact.. you have a NEW Monster...  and LV-426 remains a Mystery and your NOT going to be Shackled to it.

This would have STILL been able to keep the AC Plot intact... just that we are shown something NEW and so David is NOT the Creator of the Xenomorph...

But while a Plot Change like this may have SOLVED one of the Big Gripes with AC.... it does not mean it would have been GOOD because that comes down to Execution of a Plot and the Characters.

My kids will be interested with this kind of information. They love aliens!