Comments (Page 127)

I would rather see some unknown or lesser known actors so people don't make comparisons to other works. The problem is that it might not rake in the cash unless there is some star power. 

Wonder what big star they could or will entice?

Michael Fassbender?

Just watched the new Dune trailer...Seemed very 'safe'. didn't see many chances being taken...Looked like something 95 % of Dune fans would have envisioned.

I think this is where the Alien franchise is headed. The safe route.

Marines versus Xenomorphs.

Wonder what big star they could or will entice?

>>>"In space no one can hear you  dream." is the TAGLINE

>>>Could they USE the Title Alien: Awakening?

Yes. These things are perfect for each other.

>>>My Questions to everyone are.

1) Alien 3 & Alien: Resurrection.

2) Alien 3 & Alien: Resurrection. xD

3) I'm not obsessed with canon. This is a very fragile concept that really doesn't cost anything. Therefore, I'm open to any retcon.

4) HOW? I'm not sure I understand the point. Do you mean the narrative explanation for the retcon (sort of like Dark Fates) or the technical one? WHAT? Well, anything.

>>>Could they be Considering to USE some of the Ideas from their ALIEN Drafts that were NOT fully used in ALIEN?

I don't think they attach much importance to ideas from 40 years ago. It's time to move on. Especially considering that their idea (The Alien: Cylinder Script) was already a kind used in Alien: Covenant.

I am more than sure that this will be something new. Perhaps it will be similar to Gibson's original plot - the first and the best representation of Alien 3.

I will add that is NOT to say i wanted her KILLED OFF...

I was looking Forwards to a Sinister Revelation that Crushes her Faith and DRIVES her to a New Character and i think that Noomi Rappace would have had more Potential with that ARC to show what she really is Capable of as a Actor.

I think she would have gone through a more Traumatic Event, but then seen David as her Savior... but in the END i think he would have then USED her to Accomplish his Agenda to CREATE... Regardless.

The Dr Shaw's Fate we had in Alien Covenant i would think was likely her FATE anyway but we could have at least SHARED a Movie of the Horror she goes through, before some kind of Salvation only to see her LIFE taken by David and his Experiments.

Again i think it would be GREAT to see some of the Earlier Drafts, i did have a Source who CLAIMED to have knowledge of a 2014 Draft which i was informed about in Feb 2015 and Passed on this Site...... and Quite a LOT of the Main Plot Points did appear in Alien Covenant.  But somewhat Changed a bit...

David using Dr Shaw to Create something NEW and NOT the Xenomorph however...  with AC his Beast was Changed to be the Actual Xenomorph... which well i think was a Mistake.

"Every time David started taking on a bigger role, he died"

I would argue that we NEVER saw him Die, we only saw him Disabled, we cant be sure HOW LONG he may have Survived as a Head though.

I think its down to Interpretation and Individual Opinion as to WHAT kind of Role that Dr Shaw would have had in the Prequels.  Some may have Expected that she was our Replacement of Ripley as the LEAD.  They may have saw that David's role was more like Ash/Bishop.

It was Dr Shaw's Personal Journey for Answers... to go and Search for the Truth and have Faith that what she Chooses to Believe will be Solidified.

But i dont see it as being that, She will be the Character that we was Supposed to go on this Journey with to use as our Proxy to Discovering their is NO kind of KIND GOD that her Faith would Preach. 

It would be LIKELY she would have been Horrified and Disappointed with what she had Discovered, and this MAY have Changed her Character Arc from Very Naive and with Faith to maybe Anger towards our Creators.

I think that a LOT of the Emphasis was on David if you look at his ARC and the Viral Videos, his Creation was their to show to US that there is INDEED nothing Special About Creation.  It would have been more that Dr Shaw was WRONG and Holloway was RIGHT and Weyland was PLAIN FOOLISH.

I think that YES while we would have seen David as Dr Shaws very own Translator.  It seemed that he would have her FOOLED and Play Right into his Hands..  I think Amongst the Disappointment of the Answer that Dr Shaw would have with then a Broken Faith.  I think the Main Arc would then have gone to Davids Agenda.

The ONLY one who would 100% be able to Tell you would be Ridley Scott, or if we could ask what Lindeloff may have known about the Planned Direction.

Until we get to see one of Jack Paglen's Draft come to Light then we may NEVER be 100% sure as to WHO the Story would have been about.  I dont think Dr Shaw had a Happy Ending though ;)

>>>David was ALWAYS going to PLAY a Big Role, the Creation Arc and Themes were going to become about HIM

It is highly doubtful. David has always turned into a corpse at the end of the Prometheus. While he was lucky enough to stay alive in the final version of the film, his role is to be the support/translator for Shaw.

Every time David started taking on a bigger role, he died. Without any options. It is his destiny - an arrogant creature who admired but underestimated the Engineers and eventually died.

Who know - Maybe Ridley just wanted to stretch this script and finish in a third film? With the same end. In any case - the role of David before the Covenant was support, not the main one.

@Membrane

Indeed it seemed that a Prometheus 2 could have been Different the SET-UP that RS had given at the Time was that the NEXT Movie (P2) would have STEERED AWAY from the Xenomorph and LV-426.  It would have been about where Dr Shaw wanted to go... but also to bare in MIND that without David then Dr Shaw would be Stranded on LV-223 and so RS said she would SLOWLY put him back together, as David is Very Persuasive  and that ONCE he was back in One Piece he would be DANGEROUS.

The Interesting Things that RS had claimed about the SET-UP was that THEY did not want to meet GOD in the First Movie (which could mean those Engineers in Prometheus well the Few we saw are NOT at the Top of the Chain of Hierarchy).  But we would MEET these beings who are NOT any Gods (Traditional Sense) and who are FAR from Benevolent, he also refers to the Engineers often as the Dark/Fallen Angels.  So HOW that stands for Dr Shaw and her Answers, means they LIKELY have NO CARE for what she wants to know. 

However.... David is Bringing HELL with him and what Happens when the Black Goo infects a GOD or a MACHINE.

So it was LIKELY that David would UNLEASH the Pathogen on the Engineers, but its a case of HOW MUCH do we see of them and Learn about them before this.

Seems they had TROUBLE working out a Story based on the above, MANY rewrites between 2013-2014 and TWO Writers before the U-Turn in 2015 that lead to become Alien Covenant.

I think HERE is where things went WRONG with the Prequels.  (And yes there was Bad Writing and Characters).

1) Some Fans (with Prometheus) may have Expected to have some Answers to the Xenomorph, and we got NONE

* There was enough Clues i felt to Connect the Experiments on LV-223 as either something that Came from the Xenomorph or would lead to the Xenomorph. But it was too VAGUE, it needed a LITTLE more.

* It lacked any Relative Monsters to the Xenomorph apart from the Hammerpede, Trilobite and Deacon and there was SIMPLY not enough Screen Time for such Monsters, most of the KILLING was done by Toxic Avenger Fifield and the Angry Engineer.

* Some were Disappointed of the Differences between the Juggernaught and Derelict, and also that the Engineers were maybe NOT quite what they Expected the Space Jockey to be.

2) When we left Prometheus it had SET-UP some things that Fans would have Expected.  That we really NEVER got any Clarity on.

* To Start it would have been Expected that Dr Shaw would be our Anchor/Proxy to the Answers we may get which could be Sinister and Horrific.

* Some Fans would have Expected more about WHY we was Created and then WHY would they want us Destroyed.

* Some Fans would have wanted to KNOW what was going on with LV-223, the Mural/Fresco and WHY and WHAT lead to those Experiments and the Black Goo.

* Most of us would have wanted to SEE more of the Engineers and WHAT is their Current Agenda and Purpose and HAD this Changed in the PAST... if so WHY?

* I think some of us would have been Pondering about the Engineers Origins, and WHAT ELSE they have Created and so HOW MANY such Worlds and Races!

3) The BIG Element of Prometheus and Potential was about Creation, Sub-Creation, Knowledge, Freewill and what Happens when your Creation becomes Sentient and Rebellious or does-not agree with THEIR PLACE in Creation as far as what the CREATOR would Expect.

* David was ALWAYS going to PLAY a Big Role, the Creation Arc and Themes were going to become about HIM, but it would seem we would have seen more about the Engineers and Dr Shaw would have been the Focus for our Answers.

* FOX felt that maybe the Fans would NOT want to know much about (2) and that maybe the Xenomorph Origins and having the Beast Back is WHAT the Franchise Needed.

* So the Creation Arc and Themes would COME to Play a BIG ROLE, only seemed to make way for a incoming Party of Humans, that the Engineers and Dr Shaw as far as Screen Time was Pushed Aside.  The Prometheus Themes and Arc was to be Centered around the LAYER of David and WHAT he Creates.  And looking more at HIS own Creation and Relation to Mankind rather than Exploring the Layer above Mankind.

* The Xenomorph Origins brought into PLAY as the Ultimate Creation of David.  But it seemed the Xenomorph was just the Footnote to Davids more Greater Arc.

It seems that DISNEY are aware of the Disappointment of (3) they cant undo what (2) may have became and also maybe think it would STEER AWAY from the ALIEN Franchise.

They would NOT want to RISK any $$$$$ on Following on with anything from 1-3 and so it would seem its BACK to the ALIEN Franchise and IGNORE the Prequels.

Mother may be many things- it is also wondered if Mother is the ultimate Karen.....

For me, I wish 'Prometheus' was continued (and the cut scenes were put in place to help clarify some stupid character decisions).  In other words, Shaw and David go to the Engineer home world to discover their tech and see the aftermath of an outbreak there.  Instead, we got 'Alien: Covenant', which felt like a movie that had no interest, care or enthusiasm behind it.

ALIEN: ORIGINS

I think Certainly when we thought about this after 2012 we may have be Drawn to Certain Conclusions.  Not Many would have Fathomed it Boiled down to David ;)

Nevermind what our Imaginations had Thought of PRIOR to the Prequels.

ALAS it should have been LEFT a Mystery and David should have Created something a bit Similar but NOT as close as his Xenomorph was... and so via watching HOW it was that David had Created something a Little more Different, we could have had more Clues to maybe HOW the Original came about.

When looking at the Prequels the Premise was Creation

When we got to Alien Covenant the Emphasis was too much on the Layers that are UNDER Mankind and NOT what is Parallel or WHAT lies ABOVE the Engineers.  Or indeed the Origins to the Deacon.

Instead the Xenomorph Origins were Indicated to us as the NEXT Layer of the Cake down from and by the Synthetics (David)

I think the BOAT was missed by looking at either or BOTH of so WHO Created the Engineers, and/or WHAT is the Roots to the DNA of the Deacon, Neomorph and Ultimately the Xenomorph.

I felt that the STARBEAST could have been the Answer to Explore.

Also this MURAL had always Intrigued me.

Very Much Looking Fwd to hearing more, as and when, NO pressure--I know from experience pressure is Not Good for writers.

"ALIEN V can then Contingently go and Remove some Movies"

Ha Ha i meant CONVENIENTLY (auto-spell)

"won't continue the Prometheus story, and as others have pointed out the cooked beast, that seems to narrow things to androids or possibly WY"

I think MAYBE..... now i think DISNEY know the Xenomorph is Synonymous with the Franchise... AC did not do well... RS had indicated he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus so thats him saying that Bringing the Xenomorph Origins and Beast Back was NOT the way to go.

But it was more so that the Emphasis of the ARC and Themes were on David and the David as the Creator is what had UPSET a lot of Fans who would have rather seen the LV-223 Engineers play a ROLE and show us HOW they Came across the Xenomorph.

And so DK you and SuperAlien had indicated to a degree about a ALIEN Movie that has NO Xenomorph and about the W-Y and A.I...............................MAYBE!

And here is maybe WHY, the ONLY thing that seems somewhat Legit and Connected was the Brandywine Leak

Their (Walter Hill, David Giler) Contribution to the Franchise was the Company Conspiracy and Agenda... Special Order 937 and the A.I Synthetic Ash.

They did make their OWN Version of ALIEN Draft where the Xenomorph was a Creation by the Company and the SOS was a Trap to Lure some Humans in to TEST their Bio-Weapon.

So if the ALIEN Project thats in Process is the Walter Hill and David Giler, Project ALIEN V then maybe they could THROW a Curve-Ball that could be even more Divisive than the David the Creator Plot?

I think the POSITIVE to take from this is that DISNEY are going to do a ALIEN MOVIE.... but HOW this works out is a Matter of Time.

2022 Release would be IDEAL as thats 100 Years before the events of ALIEN ;)

@Leto

I know some Found the Engineers in AC a bit Uninspired.

We seem to FORGET the Big Part of the Engineers was Space Gardeners and those who came to Earth to Teach us what we knew and so our Buildings and Architecture would have been Inspired by them.   So we have to ASK why had Ancient Mankind not had Bio-Mechanical Buildings?

And so the Engineers seem to live like how Buddhist Monks do or the Amish people.  Their Ways, Culture and Religion is whats MOST Important and so they Shun Technology apart from a Few Essential Areas.

So the Engineers use of Technology would be Restricted to the Purpose of Exploring Space to SEED and DESTROY the Worlds they wish to Influence.

But i dont think there was the Balance... i felt Planet 4 needed a Little more of that Aesthetic of the Juggernauts.

Planet 4 had Technology where it was Needed... and we had NOT gone and Explored inside the other Buildings

I think we never saw much of the Cathedral either (not a lot was Explored), but i think that WE would have expected some Ancient Aesthetic on the Outside but inside to see more like this.

So YES i agree that to NOT have seen a Little of this in AC was a Disappointment ;)

BigDave

Cute pic!! lol

The Franchise:

'In Space No One Can Hear You Dream'...
 Soooo...they're gonna pull a 'Dallas' with a left-turn through 'Lost' country.
 Oh goody-goody.
 

I am going to beat Giler and Hill and get some works finished up quicker than planned.

ORIGINS is coming along very well as is
A L I E N: Manticore 'Out Of The Silent Dark', the sequel to my first book-length work. There will be a short-story tie-in with this sequel as well so new audience members and current audience members can get to know the crew better when they're not stressed-out and trying not to end up on the Natural Selection hit-list.

ORIGINS is about 'where did The Alien come from? Why did the Juggernaut on LV-426 have a hold full of egg-pods? Those of you who have read A L I E N: Manticore already know what my take on The Space Jockey is...and ORIGINS will address that Being's story as well.

 I express my displeasure with the mess that our beloved franchise universe has become by way of fighting back with the best stories I can write.

 The future of this universe is in the perview and hands of the Fandom, we all know how to do much better work than what we've been seeing.

 Now, just need to get the Fostering/Adoption service for all those at-risk eggs and facehuggers running around...
 Any volunteers? :D

 On the bright side, Kathleen Kennedy is gone from Star Wars, and that dreaded tv series of Leslye Headland's doing is trash-canned.

@DK

Thank you DK!!! Awesome post!

@Blackant

"because ‘Prometheus’ woke it up very well"

I think a lot Depends on what he meant by this Comment, it could be that by WOKE he may have Felt that the Xenomorph Formula of ALIEN Franchise had been done to Death and so with Prometheus by Exploring the Engineers, they had Awoken a Sleeping Giant if you would.  As in while the Xenomorph had been done a LOT, with the Prequels they had AWOKEN other Aspects of ALIEN as in The Space Jockey, and also the Question of HOW/WHY would someone Create the Xenomorph.

"Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’"

By this i think what he is Suggesting here is that the ALIEN Franchise does-not and should-not be Synonymous with the Xenomorph alone.

However when i READ this part. "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful"  Then to me it seems that he Feels that DISNEY would NOT be Interested in what Prometheus was Setting Up, and all the Themes that Carried over to Alien Covenant (say if we removed the Xenomorph and it was something different).

So i think this means that THEY are in the Progress of a NEW MOVIE but its likely to be to place Emphasis back on what People was Familiar with in regards to the ALIEN Franchise rather than trying to Reinvent anything.

That means Xenomorphs to me... but maybe you can Evolve/Change or Uplift them Beyond a Invasive Egg Laying Species....  

The other THING that Fans are Familiar with.....Ripley.... but i dont think you NEED to have her to make another ALIEN Movie.

"I do not think he would have said that if he was happy with the way the movies turned out."

I think that he FELT that you had seen the Xenomorph over and over, and that the Space Jockey Race was something that was NEVER done... and at a Point (Lindeloff) they felt you could Explore the Space Jockey and NOT have to give us Xenomorphs or Direct Answer to LV-426.

I think he was Pleased with the Direction... but seems FOX felt they Needed to bring back the Xenomorph and so Covenant was BORN.  I get the Impression that he Felt the Themes of Prometheus the Creation Arc was the WAY to go, but i think he has Concluded that these Ideas and Especially to Carry them on via David has NOT gone down well with the Public.

"How could be happy with to large commercial failures essentially at the box office...."

I would say that Prometheus was NOT a Failure it did as Good a Return as other Movies prior.  But INDEED with Alien Covenant that was a Disappointment Financially.

With DISNEY when something becomes a Disappointment they ABANDON IT....   with Star Wars the Poor Results for SOLO has lead them to NOT take the Risk with more Spin Off Movies.   So any NEW Star Wars will likely be a Prequel Trilogy to EP1 that is NOT a Skywalker Story.

And so with ALIEN i think Disney will go back to PLAY IT SAFE and we will get a Xenomorph Movie with more Chance of seeing Ripley than a David.

"you right BD I think he is going to in deep with AI plot like he is doing with Wolfs show"

Well if that was the CASE then Disney would wait and see how the Show Does but it does-not look to be too Greatly Received.

The Bottom Line is that DISNEY are the Owners of the Franchise and they would want to maybe take a PUNT with a Movie that is SET in the Franchise.... but they will want to make MONEY! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And so they will LIKELY not Carry on with what Prometheus had done because they KNOW the Prequels had Split the Fanbase as NOT MANY had Enjoyed them Overall when you Combine them and the SET-UP.

Prometheus was a Prequel.... some Fans had expected that a Prequel means.... Xenomorph Origins and the 15ft Space Jockey.

And so this is not a Prediction its a SPOILER

I think what we shall see is the Dream within a Dream PLOT as this ALIEN V can then Contingently go and Remove some Movies like Alien 3 and Alien R and the Prequels.

We then have ALIEN maybe ALIENS but we definitely will get Xenomorphs...... but then i think either NEXT or a ALIEN 6... we will either GO TO the Xenomorph Home-world or we shall see the Space Jockey that will be Reinvented (WAIT AND SEE).

This has already exceeded my expectations from the trailers. My perceptions have changed and I can tell there will be a lot of ambiguity and food for thought. I don't get out much and am a cheap date, so your mileage may vary.

BlackAnt The WY angle could be a new way to go while tapping into the other franchise aspects while staying mysterious , scary and kind of creepy imo.

I have been pushing streaming shows for a long time. RBW is finally doing it in its own fashion. There could be a WY series, a Xeno heavy series- things that can go deep and appeal to fans who dig those aspects of the franchise. Something for everybody (as DEVO once said) and we could all check everything out and we might like it. Personally I am down with a series over a movie these days. 

OHHHHHHHHHHH GOD @DK 

PLEASSSSSSSSSSE let it be Weyland Yutani!!!! PLEASE!!!

WY has so much more to offer and it would be so much more entertaining.......I do not even want a movie any more really I want a WY cable show for like 8 seasons!!! 

Bring on the WY TV show!!!! or MOVIE!!!!! I AM DOWN FOR THAT!

Could we please turn on editing.....so we can go back and correct our spelling mistakes......I hate when I go back read what I posted because I have so many grammar and spelling mistakes!!!!!!!!

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I'm a perfectionist!!!!

SuperAlien

>>>Could we have a good film in the alien universe without the alien himself, that's the fundamental question.

Nice thought, but I still don't trust binary thinking. There is an Alien or not. If the xenomorph is not needed in the film, then why not leave xeno in the background, but not exclude xeno from the film? Much more important is not what things you use, but how.

Imagining the Alien as a braindead bug jumping into the excavator bucket and then declaring that the beast is cooked, is a cheap and lazy thing to do.

Also, show the ancient and ambitious race of Space Gardeners as naive cavemen living in primitive dolmens.

Of course it will upset people.

---

But what I do not understand - the City of Engineers was created on a computer using CG. So does it really matter what to draw? The first sketches of Planet 4 were made in the style of Prometheus, but then Ridley wanted to show us a completely uninspiring prehistoric necropolis, instead of a triumphant space technopolis.

Alien can be cooked (no) by previous directors. A directors who never returned to the Space Jockey. But Scott itself destroyed the Engineers. But Scott decided to explore this soil and after the relatively successful introduction of the Engineers in Prometheus, he destroyed everything with his own hands.

 I think he is going to in deep with AI plot like he is doing with Wolfs show this is the test market....

That remains to be seen (but is an interesting angle) as I have seen a plan for this to be 5 seasons and the 1st season isn't even entirely released. It is hard to imagine 5 seasons of an AI heavy series though.

To the OP, if a movie will be made that won't continue the Prometheus story, and as others have pointed out the cooked beast, that seems to narrow things to androids or possibly WY. The android route can be a great direction but is far away of what the Quadrilogy was about. Frankly, it sounds like a shit show.

Keep your hopes low and don't expect any alien film soon. Agree.

To me, Ridley Scott says again that the beast and the franchise that only tries to rethink the whole bloody thing, to reinvent the wheel are cooked. He tried to revive it in different ways with Prometheus and Covenant, but the whole thing run out of steam. Could we have a good film in the alien universe without the alien himself, that's the fundamental question.

So nothing is in the works Ridley Scott, for the first time since Covenant, does not have a clue about the next film, most probably there have been talks between Ridley, Hill, Giler and Disney, but where it will go next, that's not yet decided. And Ridley seems a little tired about the subject, his enthusiasm gone. Keep your hopes low and don't expect any alien film soon.

@BD

BD did you see this quote by RS himself, where he indirectly admits to the commercial failures of his ideas climatically on the big screen with the movies Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Here is the RS quote....."

In a new interview with Forbes, Scott teased the future of the franchise, and said that a new film, while in the works, isn’t likely to revisit the worlds set up by 2012’s “Prometheus” and 2017’s “Alien: Covenant.”

“That’s in process. We went down a route to try and reinvent the wheel with ‘Prometheus’ and ‘Covenant,’” he enthused. “Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful because ‘Prometheus’ woke it up very well. But you know, you’re asking fundamental questions like, ‘Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’ That’s always the fundamental question.”

"We went down that rout," and it did not work financially for the most part because if it did we would just keep making more of these films.....this is speculation BD of course; but, how does that make you feel when RS says he may likely be not showing much of many of the things you really wanted to see in the way you wanted to see with the Engineers.

What a loss right....so will this be a show more about AI and synthetics....would that be the new emphasis....with the Engeers being more just derivative plot devices....what he said in that quote is frightening...exciting but also contraversial....he simulaneously saying we did not get it right with two movies back to back and almost a half billion dollars of production money.....he himself is saying we thought we knew what the audience wanted to see but we could not get the movies right.....I do not think he would have said that if he was happy with the way the movies turned out.

How could be happy with to large commercial failures essentially at the box office....

I hope he gets it right this time...and we get a Alien Franchise film that is entertaining....but it looks like it will somewhat related to the Alien franchise and nothing more...Read this part of the quote too....

"have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’ That’s always the fundamental question.”

BD I think you were right he may be abandoning ship with all it, the Xenos.....maybe most of the Engineers...you right BD I think he is going to in deep with AI plot like he is doing with Wolfs show this is the test market.....and we are just going to get these less evolved teasers of the plot where the Engineers are never really there they are more just props then real characters in the production.

"Is it possible that Scott is in fact talking about doing a Prometheus again and going Alien-less in next sequel, but existing within the same universe? While taking part in press junket’s for Alien: Covenant, Scott had talked about the Engineers returning to the aftermath of what David had done to their people. How would you feel about a new film returning without the actual Aliens, but instead focusing on the Engineers?"

This is what AVPGalaxy had said.....

I can maybe see a Little WHY they think this could be the case " ‘Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’ That’s always the fundamental question"

So they (AVPGalaxy) are looking at RS saying that maybe the Xenomorph has RAN out of Steam and as RS had said "Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing" they likely think he means that maybe you have to RETHINK the Prequel Continuation and NOT give us Xenomorphs/Take us to LV-426 but to do something ELSE.

It may NOT mean NO Xenomorphs it could be to Rethink the Origins Story after the David Arc seemed to be a NO GO with the Fans.

The Problem here is TWO FOLD...

So your going to Follow where David goes NEXT and have the Engineers Rock UP and Want Revenge, but then to NOT include the Xenomorph or come up with something to EXPLAIN that David had NOT created it?

You still have to then think so what does David do in this Movie?  Some Fans are NOT a Fan of a Movie that would Revolve much about him and the SOONER you add some ANGRY ENGINEERS to the MIX its HOW LONG does David last and then WHAT NEXT?

I think we NEED to look at WHY the Engineers go to all the Effort to Create Mankind and then also to Create the Horrors on LV-223 so they must be IMPRESSED with Creation and Pushing the Boundaries of WHAT they can CREATE.

So when they come across a Walter/David and Realize that their Creations (Mankind) have Created a Superior Creation (Synthetics) than they had (Mankind).

Then they see THIS very Creation of Mankind has gone and Created something that Surpasses what they had DONE with the Deacon.

MAYBE these Engineers could see the POTENTIAL in what David had done, and HOW it is that Mankinds Creation (Synthetics) are not Biological and maybe they could see the Potential of Synthetic and Xenomorph (Davids) and go about to make a AMALGAMATION of them.

So what we have is DAVID has merely been the Middle Man, he takes the Engineers Secrets and Surpasses the Deacon/Neomorph....... they become Impressed and they Re-Engineer his Protomorph to become the BIO-MECHANICAL FIEND from ALIEN

At some POINT with their Evolved Xenomorph they had Re-Engineered they LOAD them up to UNLEASH on Earth and.......

WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT ENDED ;)

Look Forwards to seeing how you get on ;)

I think it DEPEND on HOW in touch with the Fans and the Reaction to the Prequels that DISNEY will be.

Some Interviews with RS he seemed to think that THEY had given us the Xenomorph and YET it still NEVER did too Good, which is WHY he said he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus as in it seems he FELT that you did-not have to bring the Xenomorph back.

Lets Face It..... Prometheus did-not give some Fans what they maybe Expected, but Disappointments over the Space Jockey, over the LACK of Answers to ALIEN and NO real Monsters where ONLY a Part of the Problem...  Alien Covenant also had NOT the best Characters etc.

I think they have to GO BACK to prior to the Prequels.... and that at this TIME the Very Notion that the Xenomorph and Space Jockey had NOT been on LV-426 for a Very Long Time, and NEVER-MIND that the Space Jockey were 8ft Humanoids... but the BIG ONE is that NO ONE would have Envisioned that the Xenomorph was a Creation by a Synthetic with some Daddy Issues.

I think some Fans may have felt the Engineers where a Little Underwhelming, while some would have liked to see more about the ENGINEERS.... just maybe not all the GODS stuff... and so when we saw the Planet 4 World and Engineers i think that MOST of the Fans had Expected to see more Bio-Mechanical World and City and our Engineers to be more like from Prometheus.

I think that prior to Alien Covenant then a LOT of Fans maybe would have liked to had seen the Space Jockey be a Separate Species to the Engineers.

So IF we get another ALIEN MOVIE then i think you have to ask those Questions that RS had mentioned. "Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing"

Because if we get Queen, Eggs, Face Hugger, Chest Buster and Big Guy then its a case of HOW MANY more Times can you keep doing that without GIVING some Background Purpose to the Xenomorph, or Evolve it.

Or to go BACK to introduce the Engineers/Space Jockey at some Point?

Or do they REINVENT all of that?

I think thats a Interesting Point you make IgnorantGuy

Going Directly to the Source

================

The most recent installment was 2017’s Covenant, but Scott’s confirmed another film is still in the works.

"That’s in process. We went down a route to try and reinvent the wheel with Prometheus and Covenant,” he enthused. “Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful because Prometheus woke it up very well. But you know, you’re asking fundamental questions like, ‘Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’ That’s always the fundamental question.”

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What i get from this is he Acknowledges that a Movie is the Process and so Disney are going to make another Franchise Movie.  He goes on to suggest that they tried to do something Different with the Prequels, it seems he feels they had Shook the Franchise up by the Path of the Prequels (they was NOT going to Revolve around what you Typically would Associate the Franchise with). So he was asking IF the Xenomorph had been Done Enough and it was TIME to try something Different  and so it seems he was thinking about IF you tried something Different (Expansion) but it lacked to be about the Xenomorph can you WARRANT sticking a ALIEN: Prefix.

We have to remember before this Latest Interview we LAST saw Ridley Scott take more Interest in the ARC of the Prequels and we would go on to Finish the WHO would Create such a Thing and then he Mentioned that you have Evolve the Beast, Change it it.   He had in a Few Interviews prior also said we are in the PROCESS... of getting to ALIEN and so what we have seen with AC as far as the Protomorph is something that will EVOLVE to get to what we have in ALIEN.

He also said after the Disappointment of AC that he FELT he was ahead of the CURVE with Prometheus.

So we have to PUT it all into Perspective....

Ridley Scott had FELT with Prometheus that this was a Attempt to Explore the Engineers and Creation etc, where you could GIVE the Answers to WHO the Space Jockey Race was and you DID-NOT have to Answer the Mystery about LV-426 or even have XENOMORPHS to expand the ALIEN Franchise.

Decisions were made to give a Sequel that WOULD go and START to Answer the WHO/WHY/WHEN/HOW the Xenomorph came to be, where they Re-Invented the Notion of WHO and to CHANGE it from the Space Jockey/Engineers and make it about David.

They Started to TINKER with the Xenomorph a little, the Aesthetic was more Organic, the Chest Buster was Different but this would all be a WORK IN PROGRESS.

In LIGHT of Alien Covenant.... what RS seems to be suggesting is that MAYBE for the Future of the Franchise then the Direction and Changes that was MADE in regards to the Xenomorph, its Role, Creation and Aesthetic in the Prequels was maybe STEERING to FAR from what people are USED to seeing.

So he seems to me to be Indicating that the Re-Inventing the Wheel was maybe something that HAS NOT worked as far as to PLEASE the Fans.  Or Certainly that the Prequels kind of Deviated a bit TOO FAR from the ALIEN Franchise.

I think he is Acknowledging that you cant have a ALIEN MOVIE and Change the Formula too much.  So he had TRIED something Different and that MAYBE it had NOT worked out as far as Interest.

So Disney would be looking at HOW do you make another Movie about the Xenomorph but then CARRY ON with the Revelation and Arc of the Prequels.  And so it seems RS feels that maybe any NEW MOVIE may IGNORE the Prequels.

So as far as AVPGalaxy goes UNLESS they have some Inside Scoop!   Then its just their Interpretation that because RS had said.. "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful" that this means they are going to do a Prequel but just MAYBE NOT Carry on with what RS had Started... now come on that makes LITTLE SENSE!

As FAR as so HOW MUCH of the Prequels they TOSS OUT if we going for a Prequel again?

Where as i read into it as that they are doing a ALIEN Movie that WILL-NOT be a Prequel and RS does-not know if the NEW MOVIE will Acknowledge what the Prequels had done or IGNORE them.

And so i think the Project in the Process will be THIS ONE.

Geebuz... AVP galaxy cites the same thing saying that "Sir Ridley Scott Confirms He Is Still Developing Next Alien Prequel"

Which one should I believe??!?

Good film > cannon.

If it will be a good film, then I'm more than sure - no one will care about the canon continuity.

---

The main reason for the retсon is even not Alien 3. But Alien Resurrection.

Of course, you can keep all films in canon continuity. You can. But the very idea that the "possible" Alien 5 will be a sequel/prequel/whatever of AR or be located in the same universe/timeline with such an abomination - depressing.

Just imagine - Alien 5 would be a good, even great, and more than that - a gorgeous film! With a good sequels. But ... yes. To get into this film you will need to complete AR (plus Alien3 for some people, but I excluded it from the equation). Yes. Not inspiring anymore, is it?

Something like that:

- Hey, you heard?! A new Alien film is on the way! There will be engineers, androids, marines, aliens, queens! We will go to the alien homeworld with Giger aesthetics!

- WOW! Sounds cool!

- Yeah, but it will a direct sequel to Alien Resurection...

- Oh, I'm pass!

---

Sometimes to create, one must first destroy.

The cost of progress must be absolute.

"but a 2nd Mission to Prometheus"

I meant LV-223

"in Space No One Can Hear you Dream"

The Tagline for Alien V is a Convenient way to just IGNORE the Prequels and any other Movie in the Franchise they want to just REMOVE from Canon.

Maybe Disney give us a TRUE ORIGINS STORY!

I am going to ASSUME that the Project that is being worked on is the David Giler and Walter Hill  version of ALIEN V

I am Concerned they have RAN OUT of ideas and think that you HAVE to bring back RIPLEY to Save the Franchise.

"But I guess the only important question is: how long can you give up the sequel to the previous film and try to start from scratch?"

I think this is RS just concluding that Disney have NO real Interest in any Continuation, i think we have to Remember that OTHER factors do Influence Changes to a Movie.

It seems that he is AWARE that Disney are in the Progress of Planning another Alien Movie, but i get the Impression that he is NOT that aware of the Direction but he seems to be sure it WILL-NOT be a Continuation of anything the Prequels had been trying.

Reading into his Comment it seems like Disney are not to KEEN on Change and so we would LIKELY see a Movie that gives us the same Formula we had in the Franchise and so Maybe? its back to Vanilla Morphs.

"To me it seems that it is Scott that is out of steam since he only cares about David"

Well i think what he was showing us was the THEMES at play about Sub-Creating something that becomes Sentient and NOT Happy with its ROLE as Intended by their Creator and so we have Rebellion and Sub-Creation repeated and so with David he is being USED as the Proxy to Retell maybe what those LV-223 Engineers had become.

If the Story was to have Continued i suspect we would see a Repeat of the Theme to another Layer after maybe David would Re-Engineer those Embryo's to make Humans MK2

I think the Engineers should have been something to have LOOKED into more and WHAT ELSE they Created.

I think back in 2010 they had Intended to make a Prequel that would SET-UP a way to Explore more about the Engineers and STEER AWAY from ALIEN.

The Problem is some Fans are maybe NOT open to having a Expanded Universe about the Engineers/Space Jockey that would be a SPIN OFF and NOT a Directly Connected Franchise to the Xenomorph.

Prometheus just NEVER acted as much of a Bridge to ALIEN it never gave any Real Answers or Closure and so what we had was a Sequel that they then decided to Give those Answers and Bring the Xenomorph back but in a WAY that surely they should have known would RUFFLE some Feathers...

I think the PLOT was just to BOLD for those Fans who would like Aliens and Alien R and AVP etc..... while it was NOT really ALIEN enough for those who always Wondered about the Space Jockey.

Its a Shame as they could have FIXED this by NOT have given us Alien Covenant... but a 2nd Mission to Prometheus with another Android like David... say Walter.

He could have Finally Met his Maker when they Discover the Body of Weyland...  

This could have given us a Movie that was more like Alien Engineers, where we would get PLENTY of Clues to the Xenomorph Origins and LV-426 and then ALLOWED for the Door to ALIEN to be Shut.

Then they could have gone to do a Franchise Spin Off to where David and Dr Shaw are going and IF its not about Xenomorphs and what some Fans wanna go see then its TOUGH! ;) They would have their Answers and their Alien Franchise.

The Door would always be OPEN to do other ALIEN Movies in Future that a Mission to LV-223 would have UPLIFTED the Potential to introduce the Xenomorph and Horrors away from LV-426

"Some? What is important is what most of the fans (I would say maybe like 70%) think. If you have a huge division around central things instead of details then a movie has failed"

This comes about Mainly from there NEVER really being a A-Z Answer (From 1979-1999) as far as the Xenomorph Origins and Space Jockey, i think RS may have had some Ideas which he NEVER got to Carry On because he was BUSY and so James Cameron came aboard and made ALIENS where i DONT think he even Considered what was the Origins.... and again with FOX going for a AVP instead of looking at Answering the Questions from ALIEN.

So with Each Movie you get a New Set of people working on it who can CHANGE what they want and so you have NO real Solid Foundation to Build On.  Which is MAYBE why there was that ALIEN 10 Page Rulebook that was done at the Time they worked on Alien Covenant so that Future Movies have some Ground Rules to FINALLY stick too.

The other Problem is that with the ALIEN Franchise then there are THINGS that NOT every Fan like or Agree with.

They COULD go and REBOOT the Franchise.. remake ALIEN and then make a New Prequel and New Sequel and i think your going to have a HARD TIME to go and Give all the Fans what they want.  What these Mainly could Achieve is to Reintroduce the Franchise with a Different Spin on Certain things to a NEW Generation... but these Changes maybe WONT settle too well with Fans who Grew Up with the Original Franchise.

Sometimes a Story can get Screwed Up a bit and Disappointment... Star Wars EP 8 The Last Jedi is a Good Example.... and all you can do is Continue with Damage Control as you cant 100% Undo the Things that were DONE prior.

Unless we have them as Dreams or Time Travel or Multiverse etc etc.... which can just be a LAZY Reset Button.

"The SJ is tied to the Engineers, the Engineers were in the LV-system which means that they could have been to other systems as well depending on their ships and interest. Maybe they have been to other systems and galaxies"

Firstly then INDEED the PLOT would mean its Extremely Unlikely that the Earth is the ONLY such World the Engineers have Interacted with and Seeded/Evolved.  And by Virtue of there being other GALAXIES in their Navigation Systems must mean they have been to and have the ABILITY to Reach other Galaxies which means the Chances that we are ALONE as far as a Creation of the Engineers is Exponentially made UNLIKELY.

The Engineers and the Space Jockey were intended to be ONE and the SAME... but while you have some Differences as far as Aesthetically and Scale then it leaves it OPEN for the Space Jockey to be a Different or Related Species.

"the main complaint about Prometheus wasn't the lack of Xenos it was that the human characters"

I think it depends on WHAT Source you look at, Certainly Prometheus had other Problems and it was NOT that it Disappointed because it had NO Xenomorphs... some Fans was UPSET that it was not a ALIENY kind of Movie.

FOX had deemed that NOT having the Xenomorph was a mistake and i Suspect that the Anticipation and Excitement for Blomkamps Alien 5 over a Prometheus 2 that would Follow Dr Shaw and David and STEER AWAY from LV-426 and the Eggs etc, is something that FOX must have FELT there was a Great Interest from the Fans to see the Xenomorph again.

"Not necessarily though it is important but maybe it could be very far in the future with like humanity 2.0."

Well i think who is to say that we are NOT say Humanity 2.0?

When looking at the Engineers Plot its likely they had Created other Humanoids, but i think you would have to have some look Very Human to have us make a Connection with them.

I think they DROPPED the Ball with Alien Covenant... but then it was LIKELY they would NOT go and Risk a Story that does-not have DAVID in it, but it would have to have the Xenomorph and so its HOW do you Juggle those TWO.

It seems they NEVER even Pay any Attention to the Engineers Plot.... Creators, and WHO we had Interactions with that LED to our Mythos and Religions about Gods!

And so they had to Introduce more HUMANS as surely to have a Movie with just Dr Shaw and then David being the ONLY other being thats Relatable to Humans would maybe NOT have Worked.... having Engineers too would be HARD especially if these GUYS had a HATRED for us....

And so having a Plot where the Engineers World is CLOSE to LV-223 and so then they can introduce the Covenant Colony Mission to give us our Humans was the ONLY way they could think about to GIVE us more Humans.

Which is WHY i mentioned about the Eggs in One Basket ;)

In Context to the Franchise can we 100% Say that Mankind came from Earth?

Could we have came FROM somewhere else?  And so if we go that Route then we have other Humans, but as you said you have to LINK them to Mankind on Earth in some way. You then Acknowledge that we likely came from Another Place.

OR.... if they PAY attention to the Various Mythos and Religions then there are Themes about a Rebirth for Mankind as in a Second Chance (NOT a Afterlife)  and by that i mean the Various Flood/Deluge Stories..

If as a Engineer you see the Problem with Mankind is from the way we are Behaving, the Upbringing and Knowledge we Gained that led to our Behavior

Children could be RAISED to any way the Engineers wanted and NOT to be Influenced or Corrupted by our Ways.

And so we could Explore that the Engineers had came to Earth and taken some Humans or just Embryo's to other Worlds, at the Time Prior to the Planned Destruction of Earth.  Or the Engineers could have done this Many Thousands of Years prior.

So the Earth does-not have to be the ONLY place where there are Humans say Thousands of Years ago.

My idea for one of my Prometheus Sequels had taken Dr Shaw and David to a World that has other HUMANS and the Revelation would have been that WE do-not Originate on Earth at all.

"BD should be able to confirm that because he has more specifics on just how silly the studio was with the other sets RS wanted to build and film"

I am not sure HOW MUCH the Studio had impacted the Height of the Engineers, when Production started to begin they had intended to give us 10ft Engineers (Downgraded from 12-15 in the Drafts) but for some reason there was a Decision to NOT use any kind of Effects to Portray the Engineers Scale and so Camera Angles would be used instead and i think this was something that RS had chosen to do as he liked to keep things as Practical as Possible.

But Certainly the STUDIO would have Held a LOT of Influence over Changes, which had Included the Decision to REMOVE the Xenomorph and Similar.  To TOWN DOWN the HR Giger Aesthetic and to NOT give us a Literal Prequel.

There are others working on the Project who also have a LOT of say in things, which include David Giler and Walter Hill.  Its Common for Movies to have to CUT Material to get a Theatrical Cut that is NOT too Long, so that it Allows for more People to be Willing to give the Movie a Chance, if the Movie had a Extra 30-45 Minutes then maybe ONLY the more Hard Core Fans would have turned up and so Box Office Figures could have Declined somewhat.

I think Prometheus was a Movie that DID-NOT give every Fan what they Expected and FOX felt that to STEER AWAY from Giving Answers to the Xenomorph and to NOT have the Beast Back, was MAYBE a Mistake.

I get the Impression that RS was Actually Happy with Prometheus for the Most Part, he seemed to be more Pleased with that than the Direction of Alien Covenant.

Prometheus had its Flaws.... some Suspect Writing/Moments of Stupidity but then a LOT of Horror Movies have these as a Plot Device.  It depends on HOW they Execute these Plot Devices and some i FELT was not so BAD but some were SILLY and UNNECESSARY.

ALIEN was well SILLY for letting Kane on board... HOW Stupid was ASH!!!  But then you get the Curve-ball that he was a Synthetic and Special Order 937 which was a Masterstoke to show that this was a Deliberate breach of Quarantine by the Robot ASH so was very WELL thought out and a Good Addition that Hill and Giler added to the Story.

I think Prometheus has its Moments of too much Ambiguity for some... Its a Movie you have to STUDY and go back to Numerous Times to start to Appreciate it and kind of BEGIN to understand it a Little.

PLOT HOLES... i think it depends on what you would Consider  ONE to be, other Movies are MORE Guilty of PLOT HOLES or things that MAKE Little Sense.

You were going to come up with some Conflicts when you go for a Chariots of the Gods Plot.... where our Ancient Mythos and Religions all STEM from the Engineers and Interaction with them.  Especially when you would have then Expected the Engineers to look like.....

@BlackAnt

Thank you for referring to ‘Life’, which I have watched.

In terms of execution, it functions well but there is no depth merely entertainment.

On the question of the special effects in Prometheus Ridley was anxious to use practical modelling rather than CGI that was a stated policy decision whether it works is down to individual preference personally I feel the entire riff at the end was off.

In the documentary, Jon Sphait’s is quite emphatic that rather than the SJ be giant elephantine comedic beings they should be relatable for storytelling purposes.

When you consider the Nobel Savages that offered the Donation Genesis and then consider the look of the woken pilot, something has happened there which can be important and bleed into what has been going on on this "Anthrax Island." If they had gone to Paradise they would have found out the answer to that. They wanted to make monsters sub create something of their own why was that so important?  

@Thoughts_Dreams

Thanks for your thoughts. 

I think why Prometheus is correctly named a cult film is because only a certain type of person will enjoy it and the reason it missed with a lot of people are the reasons that you give which I understand.  

Shaw

I have always been intrigued by your disdain for Shaw and wondered whether its because she represents a person of faith and given your remark "this is not a church" it sounds to me that you are unhappy with her faith as if it and her are out of place in the movie. 

My view is if a search for our creators, it is essential that a person of faith is included within that search.

I wonder is your real objection that they should not have made a film within the Franchise, which is essentially a quest for our creators with all that implies. It wasn't a quest for some cool Engineers but those who made us. 

From the original sacrificial scene to the rebirth of the Deacon, the ritual of life is before us and the movie should take us in a direction where we get Elizabeth’s answers. Who made us why and what is our purpose. What she would find out in the movie Prometheus is, dark angels made us because they could and our role is merely a punt whilst these dark angels seek to perfect a replacement.

So how would a person of faith react to this? The answer is there must be more, who made them, what’s really going on? She will not accept as a person of faith that is all and that's how Prometheus the movie ends.

So what would Prometheus Paradise have been about and how would Elizabeth as the person of faith as our proxy react to what she found?

She would arrive at Paradise and it would become clear she already knew the answer to her question. The reason we were made was that someone could and the reason we could be replaced is because they could. The really fascinating question is why were they doing this, why were they attempting to sub create and introduce their own vision? 

“For me, to echo some elements of Mary Shelley, It is a study of an unsentimental god, it is about creativity and destruction, of a people without loving relationships that allow havoc to reign and evil to triumph."

And that is my answer in my story "The Furious Gods".

But to return to Elizabeth. 

Dr. Shaw, a scientist who believes in God, is responsible for a mistake that could evoke the Greek hubris. More precisely, she “wants her religious beliefs affirmed, and believes she is entitled to answers from God”; but “her questions remain unanswered and she is punished for her hubris”

So in order to tell the story, she has to be a person of faith and having asked her question she is punished. But is there redemption for her? 

In the "Crossing" we see the first part of her redemption the healing of David out of a desire for forgiveness but it is also out of vanity so that she can get her answers and so she is not entirely redeemed and the punishment continues.

In "Furious Gods" She faces the ultimate test to achieve redemption and it is in the form of Temptation. 

Equally, David is drawn into this because he is responsible for her punishment. He does not need redemption more a sense of purpose in 'Covenant' he finds it by a sub creative act so he is now merely copying the fallen angels that all so begs the question. They were destroyed by what they created so will he be and by the same power? That I am sure would have been the story of the Space Jockey in the original 2015 vision Ridley had but that's to digress.

In the "Furious Gods," by being healed David is given another chance. At some point, he suffers remorse and conscience, is that the first move toward having a soul something that Weyland says he will never have?

He is given a glimpse of 'Heaven' and understands finally how he, David, knowledge fits in. But he too is tempted.

So eventually the Person of Faith, whose faith no longer makes any sense and the Android seeking meaning realise what they must do. The answer takes us back to the beginning of the Tale or let's say they believe that is the answer but they will only find out by a, “a leap of faith."     

To come back to Prometheus because that was made and we have the evidence to go looking for our creators without someone of faith would remove the relativism to what they found and each other. So much of the final act of Prometheus up until the craft smashes into the Juggernaut needs her faith-based viewpoint. For us the onlooker its the only thing that keeps her going.     

So for me that she is from "the Church" is vital. You have a perfect right not to want a Spiritual dimension to be placed in the mix but if you want to treat evil seriously rather than generic horror then you have to have goodness. In the first Trilogy Ripley is weary heroism against remorseless hate in the second set of films it would have naive faith. 

BD

"I think the PROBLEM that is Faced with the Franchise (Original Quadrilogy) is getting people to LOOK BEYOND what they THINK what would Constitute the ALIEN Franchise."

Yeah, Star Wars and Star Trek have done those things so why would Alien be different in that way? They got to have something in common that ties them together so people can see that it is alien-related or else there will be problem with some people and the links got to be clear enough. If you do something and then people get confused so you have to do something like sit down with them and explain that XYZ then you haven't done your work, that should be understood from the story. My point is that it isn't the fault of the audience, it is the writer (if you have it in books or movies or whatever doesn't matter). You don't have to explain it in capital letters and exclamation-points so to speak but it shouldn't require you to read ten books to get the connection or connections.

The word Alien means unknown so that could be expanded on to new things in the franchise but that requires mysteries and good writing something that the prequels have failed with. You mention different things that are interesting. If we look at unknown things that are in the franchise we have the culture of the Engineers and the SJ, we have the Weyland and Yutani companies, we have different monsters, we have the goo, you have the android part and even though I am not interested in that someone could explore it if they want but get human characters that we can care about and so on.

One problem is that the prequels have demystified the SJ and the derelict to an extent. Maybe there is a way to save that but keep Scott and Fox far away from everything that has got to do with the story if not then we will get a prequel situation again.

". . . would some Fans consider such a Venture as being part of the ALIEN Franchise?"

Some? What is important is what most of the fans (I would say maybe like 70%) think. If you have a huge division around central things instead of details then a movie has failed.

Look at it like this though: we have the LV-system where the SJ was found. The SJ is tied to the Engineers, the Engineers were in the LV-system which means that they could have been to other systems as well depending on their ships and interest. Maybe they have been to other systems and galaxies, if you tied the Engineers to the SJ and the SJ to the Xeno then it is surely in the Alien-verse and if the links are clear enough then their eventual travels to other systems would make sense. You shouldn't go Lindelofian with it though (mysteries for mysteries sake, to obscure things) because then it gets frustrating. Not to say that he is the only one to blame but he didn't make it better as far as seeing connections in the alien-verse are concerned.

You mention Ripley 8, another problem is that AR is considered to be very poor by many myself included so maybe it would not be very popular to continue with her. I understand what you mean but I am a bit skeptical about it, it depends on the writing and execution.

"These are Recipes for your Super Soldiers to go AWOL"

Maybe that could be something, don't make it into a David kind of situation though and focus too much on the Ripley 8. The human adventure always comes first, to me at least. Our ties and how humanity deals with androids and cloning is what makes it interesting to me not necessarily androids and cloning in themselves. Xenomorphs or not, the main complaint about Prometheus wasn't the lack of Xenos it was that the human characters acted stupid as far as I remember it (you can google it if you want). Because that was the main problem to many that is why people complained but Fox and Scott never understood that part of it. The lack of Xenos wasn't the main complaint so I don't think that a Xeno-less movie would be a disaster as long as it has enough ties to the franchise, isn't too vague, and has well done human characters that we can see ourselves in.

"So the Necessity for Humans does kind of HOLD BACK to what you can do....."

Not necessarily though it is important but maybe it could be very far in the future with like humanity 2.0. Humans are from apes so if you look at it like that it could work. Apes evolve into humans and humans might turn into humanity 2.0 with maybe stronger immune-systems or what ever. Who knows what evolution brings if it occurs naturally or if humans use some artificial thing to evolve themselves. Maybe they would get punished for cheating nature and some Xeno monsters or Engineers could be used in that way. Mankind has tried to dominate earth and the universe so that could fit in somewhere especially when you look at Prometheus and stealing fire from the Gods and so on. Humanity 2.0 goes back to --> Prometheus (and human evolution) which goes back to --> Alien, therefore it's in the alien-universe.

"Species who would PUT all of their EGGS in ONE Basket?"

If they would do that and fall the eggs would break which means that they wouldn't get any omelette. :D

Picture twenty Engineers around a table that are very hungry waiting for their food, if the Engineers have a short fuse there will be trouble. Plates are being thrown around, Engineers are screaming. :D

"Battlestar Galactica/Caprica and Star Wars had Humans and NONE of these came from Earth ;)"

I haven't watched Battelstar Galactica but Star Wars sure. Maybe mankind will have to escape earth because it is not habitable and find a new planet so that's possible.

You mention Star Trek, I've never been into that but I understand what you're trying to say. If they were well-written and sympathetic then it might work but then you got to explain their ties to humanity even though there might be just small links. For example they could both be made by the Engineers but then you should at least give some explanation why the Engineers just didn't create humans that live on earth even though you might not need to go that much into details.

Maybe some humans and the humanoids could face a threat together that they got to cooperate against to survive? Here you could bring in the Engineers and other horrors that they've created to keep their creations in check. What is important is that even though they might be humanoids we (the audience) must feel sympathetic towards them and that requires some well-made characters otherwise we'll have the same problem as we have with the prequels - interesting ideas but mostly crappy characters.

Michelle J

"... if you listen to Jon talking about Damon's ideas in the documentary they are one single voice."

I hear what you are saying but it the movie should make things somewhat clearer. What you say about the dialogue makes sense but that and what we were shown should have been better tied together. People shouldn't have to watch a movie 10 times to understand it, not everyone will understand it after one sit. Honestly it took me a while to see the connections but not everyone have that patience or interest. Visual messages is something that you mention, but I am not sure if everyone are that patient and some people want more through dialogue. To me at least I would have liked if the dialogue and visual things should have been better mixed. A movie that is obvious wouldn’t be good for this franchise since it doesn’t seem to fit, but it shouldn’t require tons of research.

You mention the different view-points that David, Shaw, Weyland, and Holloway had. Those ideas in themselves are interesting but unfortunatly I didn't find Shaw, Weyland, or Holloway to be interesting since they were so poorly written. It had interesting questions but mostly poorly written and/or executed characters unfortunatly. When the characters don't work then I don't care about the themes, but that's just me.

The rest of the things that I will reply to are things that I see are meant for BlackAnt but I found it to be interesting. I will write a response to them as well, only reply if you want.

Ridley seems to be into the business side of it, I am not sure if that is a good approach. (I almost wrote Ripley, have you ever thought of the fact that the names are so similar?) Yes it got to make a profit but if you think too much about the money you might miss the art-side of it. To improve the art (things about the movie that are not strictly about the money) you can't think too much about keeping things under budget because that might give you a worse quality in the finalized thing. A smaller budget might be bad financially since it might make the movie worse so less people watch it but there might also be a possibility to make movies cheaper and make them work. Unfortunatly I can’t give you an example of a sucessful movie that had a low budget, even though there might be one or more somewhere.

I wish that they would have had more like cave paintings that would have explained things better. They should have given us more clues to this one, at least let us look at it longer:

The picture is taken from a thread here from 2016 titled Is the Beaked man a representation for the eagle who eats the liver of Prometheus? Unfortunatly I am not sure who took the picture originally. You can find a better version at the Strange Shapes blog at https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2014/0/page/2/.

"Janek's conversation with Vickers is important because what he says to her is actually the truth wrapped up in speculation."

Not sure if it is in the movie or as an extra thing. If it makes sense it is probably an outtake. ;) Vickers could have been so much better in the movie, that was a missed opportunity. Unfortunatly they just wrote her as a corporate bitch which I can understand but the cut scene with Janek makes her more interesting. Janek says something about her being in pain, she doesn’t look well but maybe she has some conflicting thoughts. She should have been better written and she should have had more moments like that to make her character more complicated and not a question of being either this or that. People in real life have more of A, some have more of B, some are AB and some are BA and some are CD. Vickers felt more like A. . . . . b type (no pun), she had small variations in her personality but she was mostly distanced and authoritarian (case in point how she says ". . . and that makes you an employee" I think that she said it to Shaw).

To continue about Shaw they tried to give her some father issues with Weyland but that failed since I didn't care much for any of them but I guess that it was because of the editing and then the script so I don't blame the actors. Both Theron and Pearce seem to get roles so they must be somewhat qualified for what they do even though I haven't watched a lot of their movies. Vickers was authoritarian and Shaw was dumb ("that is what I choose to believe" let me tell you, this is science not a church). Sorry for the long paragraph

As far as mysteries in general not only tied to the alien franchise I think the idea that to uncover a mystery you need to give one more or two. This goes for both TV-shows, books, or movies. Take for example Star Wars, we get to know a bit about Jabba in 6 even though he was mentioned before that. In Star Wars 6 we saw a bit of what he was about but we didn't get to see everything about his gang so for example we didn't see a lot about his ties to the bounty hunters, we didn't get to see how his gang worked in general. You can ask if they were just on that planet? Did they have contacts elsewhere? How was their relation to the empire? You could look at Jabba as a being a non-human version of Al Capone if you want. This paragraph was written to show that this isn’t just tied to the alien-verse, it applies to many other things.

My post was about mysteries in general, of course the alien ones get mentioned since this is an alien-board but it doesn't have to be just about the alien-franchise. Like I said, Star Wars is a good example. Another one is the Lord of the Rings trilogy where we don't get to know everything about the various life-forms either which (with interesting surroundings) brings you that wonder. Don’t explain everything and do it in an intelligent way is important with art in general it seems to me.

Roger G: So he continues with the androids and thin human characters but in something else? That sounds boring, I won't bother with RBW just throw it away. I think that he should be a producer at best, keep him far away from the story.