Comments (Page 128)
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John Tucker must DIE for this... sorry Wrong Franchise ;)
Nice Effort ;)
I only KNOW the ONE Song about a CAT!
I will add the Engineers Plot was a Plot Device to allow for a Reason to HOW in a Time Prior to ALIEN that Humans would END UP going to a Place where LV-426/223 was.
Without the Chariots of the Gods Plot, then it would come down to a Chance Discovery by being CLOSE ENOUGH but intending to go to another Destination, to then Detect a Signal and Investigate.... which is Pretty Much what we had with Alien Covenant.
Without the Chariots of the Gods Plot, then they would arrive at the Derelict or a Outpost of the Space Jockey and they would have NO MEANS to Communicate with this Species or Discovery WHAT they had Intended.
You would just END UP being Faced with a Threat, be that Eggs, or something Connected.... its a Case of HOW do they know what was Intended by the Space Jockey Race?
Where was they Going and WHY?
Where did they come From?
Where did they get the Eggs?
Its HOW do they answers those Mysteries when you Face a ALIEN Species with NO WAY to Communicate (unless they find some way).
And then its ONCE you introduce some Crazed Alien Species without knowing MUCH about them but they had Eggs as a Weapon, its then a CASE of WHERE NEXT?
The Engineers Creators Plot was a Platform to relay some of those Answers to us, and to SET-UP a Potential to Expand the Franchise by Virtue of these Creators.
Prometheus did not 100% Answer the Questions that ALIEN had Raised, it only gave us some Clues, that lead to more Questions.
The Sequel we got did-not really Answer or Expand on the Many Questions of Prometheus, it more so just WENT back to the One from ALIEN..... the Eggs and HOW/WHY and by WHO... but with that Curve-ball that had Fans in Disbelief.
I would say that Prometheus was a Adult Movie as far as not for the Kiddies... as in it was a Thought Provoking Movie. I would say Aliens and AVP are more for Kiddies as in Action/Popcorn.
I think that YES we could Question as to WHY the Prometheus was NOT more Prepared, and WHY they could not have taken another Ship or a Drop Ship to send down some Security and Combat Synthetics but then this would lead to Radio Contact back to the Prometheus that this PLACE is Dangerous and so Weyland cant get his CURE and Dr Shaw her Answers and it could then be SEND IN more Military. We would have ENDED UP with something like a ALIENS or Starship Troopers.
I think it boils down to Weyland looking to NOT have many know what he FINDS so he can Assess what he does-next should he FIND what he wants. I think that HE and Dr Shaw were being VERY NAIVE in assuming they MAY find these GODS and that IF they do then surely they would NOT be Hostile to us because they LEFT us their Calling Card to come and VISIT when they are Ready.
Dr Shaw being Foolish to Request them to take NO-GUNS... you dont want to go to FIND your Creators with Guns Pointing in their Faces.... and IF they was NOT going to take too Kindly and are Godlike then the Guns would be of Little Use.
Ok the Last Journey to the Outpost we saw that Jackson had taken the Shot Gun to Protect Weyland in Light of seeing Mutant Fifield Turn up. Who knows how much the Engineer paid attention to that and the Threat until he was SHOT AT.
I think when we are looking at David and the Engineer we get the Impression that David was Disappointed with his Creator and HOW he was Treated by his Less Superior Creators and so he was maybe Intrigued to WHY it is that Humans are Obsessed with meeting THEIR Creators.
David prior to this Point had Discovered our Creators are MORTAL, and they may HAVE more Advanced Technology but thats about ALL that makes them Wanna be Gods... so he was maybe Curious to Speak to one of these Beings, especially as he knew they was also Disappointed with Mankind.
David had Noticed the Anger in the Engineers Voice, and yet when Weyland Spoke about David, you could see the Engineer have a look of Interest on his Face, Bewilderment and then Pity..... As the Engineer approached David he had seemed for that Moment to NOT seem Aggressive, as he then Gently Touches Davids Head.. at this Moment then David maybe felt the Engineer had Interest in him, a Connection with him, some Pity.
Then.... SNAP!
With Davids comment to Weyland about the Journey, he would know that Weyland had BANKED on Dr Shaw being Right about meet our Makers and that IF they found our Creators then THEY could surely Grant Him more Life..
But there was NOTHING... not that the Engineers would have given him.
And so Weyland is NOW facing Death... he wanted more LIFE, maybe to NEVER DIE... and NOW he is going to Discover IF there is something after WE DIE... what ever kind of Journey to the After-Life that some Cultures and Religions Believe in.....
WEYLAND shall NOW.... Discover... he will either be on a Journey to After-Life... or Nothing!
Cheers Guys ;)
There has been a few Encyclopaedia on the Franchise included a Few Professional Ones, they are somewhat incomplete because we have YET to have a Conclusion.
Most of my stuff is purely to Speculate on HOW to Expand/Explore certain things that have not been Explored in Depth or Answered yet.
Regarding the OT then i think there is so much Potential to Explore things BEYOND what we have as far as Ripley, Xenomorph and LV-426 which is what the Original Franchise had been about.
I think we have been shown enough Evidence to LINK that the Xenomorph is Connected to the LV-223 Outpost and Experiments there with the Black Goo.
Is this the ONLY place the Engineers have Conducted and Stored such Horrors that relate to the Black Goo, the Mural and the Xenomorph?
Even IF we take that as YES... then we can ASK.... are LV-426, Planet 4 and Potentially Origae-6 the ONLY places where such Horrors had left LV-223?
Even IF we take those as YES... and we take out LV-223 (dont go there again) then you can still ASK.... where did the Black Goo come from? Why did it Create such Horrors on LV-223 what was the Basis for such Horrors to come about?
All of these could take us to some place where we have something that is ALIEN as far as Connected to ALIEN.
But then we have the SCOPE of Many Worlds that the Engineers had Seeded and where they have also Colonies, Worlds that would have other Life-Forms that are NOT in anyway Connected to the Xenomorph and LV-223 Horrors.
Then we could also Wonder about what Worlds, Life-Forms or Intelligent Species are there in the Galaxy that the Engineers had NO input in their Creation and Evolution.
So there is PLENTY of Millage with the Franchise if you look at it. You dont have to Revolve i around the Eggs on LV-426 or indeed the Horrors on LV-223 but its a case of EXPLORING anything thats Not Connected may for some simply NOT be Considered a ALIEN Franchise Movie.
You can be Brave, try something Different and Release the Shackles of LV-426 but it seems maybe for some that is RISKY and its case of as DK had Mentioned on another Post.... the WELL of Ideas seems to have Dried Up. But thats ONLY the Limits of LV-426, Eggs and Ripley.
@DK
I think there are Numerous Stories we can Continue with or Expand upon... EVEN within the confines of LV-223/LV-426 because its Unlikely that all Avenues from these Places Ran Dry with Planet 4, Oriagae-6 and the Ill Fated Missions/Objectives of the USCSS Nostromo, USCSS Sulaco, USCSS Patna and USM Auriga (Theatrically). Even if we Ignore LV-223/426 and yet we want to ONLY explore something Connected to ALIEN then i think we SHOULD NOT just Assume that the Horrors of LV-426/223 have all been Explored and YET to with Origae-6.
*Was the Derelict the ONLY such Ship to be loaded with Eggs?
*Was Planet 4 the ONLY such World that had been Bombarded with the Bio-Weapon/Pathogen?
Albert Einstein, "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."
So many ways you could tackle this one....it's limitless though.
After 40 years of the Alien franchise I still think there is a lot of mystery. How many times exactly have we seen where and what the engineers really are? None. What we see in Alien Covenant is only a tiny aspect of their civilization...they appear to be an almost inter-dimensional species....across multiple galaxies....so almost anything is still possible. If anything they are even more mysterious now than they were in the first Alien movie with the derelict.
I really secretly like everyone of these movies, even the ones that are not cannon such as the Alien-Predator films...that is off the record though...I just like art for the sake of art.
I think RS made a mistake when he linked the engineers to being our creators....but hey what do I know I do not make movies....so eventually maybe even this will turn out to be even more mysterious with the right special effects and I will like that plot details even more.
Alien is dated obviously after 40 years, the set designs, cathode ray-tube monitors in the Nostromo, no one has anything like a cell-phone communications device, you see actual gear looking cogs in the side of the head of the Alien...ect......However, the concept is still mysterious. This idea of mixing organic based elements, "acid for blood," with metallic nano computers, making it "one tough little son of bitch."
Science tells us humans are most fascinated with things when there is the right balance of familiarity with that of the unknown, or mystery.
There has to be just enough that we can relate to or we lose repeatability in translation.
There has to be just enough that we can relate to or we lose it in translation.
The Alien franchise spans four generations so there are highly specialized themes created for different audiences.
As much as there is absolutely wrong with Prometheus I remember watching it in an almost empty theater for the first time. I really enjoyed the first moment David approaches the engineer in hibernation, thinking this was the moment worth waiting 30 years for. But then as the movie went on to it's conclusion.....I thought even back then why would a multi trillion dollar world colonizing corporation bring just one ship, a few high caliber gun powder firearms, a few flame throwers, one android, a few scientists, and this somewhat well provisioned research ship.....then I immediately thought about the Sulaco...WY could easily afford to make a ship much bigger than that and provision it with much more advanced COMBAT VERSIONS OF DAVID, super fast deadly smart and way more powerful than the mechs in AVATAR.....with high energy particle weapons...if you have FTL you have high energy particle weapons too.
In Alien they were space truckers and were not packing heat...so for Prometheus to make this same sin in a more technical way makes no sense....but anyway they open the hibernation chamber for the engineer literally asking it to help them while pointing guns at it....a several billion year old species....so there is so much about that movie that should have been there, that could have been there and!!!!!!!!!!!! the writers really gave RS something more along the lines of some total BS!!!!
The main reason for going there is to get one of these engineers and not ask it to have tea with you while catching up to compare notes....then you get there and all you can do is ask some questions with a few guns pointed at it and one android translating???
Right? this is that slow silly walk through the haunted house.
So let's try this another way instead...to compare it with something else way more interesting.
Just imagine if something a few million times more complicated than David...another type of AI took control of the hibernation chamber and they introduced an agent into it's chamber and then just took it back to Earth....completely different movie.....and the black goo.....Weyland goes back on ice and they make him younger again by studying the engineers cells which have more than just our DNA mixed with other technology at the cellular level.
Now this would have been a far more mysterious movie and yet we settled for Dr. Shaw taking control of a billion year old technologically advanced engineer space craft, going to one of their world's to ask them more questions? Well how stupid can you get? We just saw how the first set of questions went....AC has some real laughable moments too as well as well as some great science fiction.
I want more possibilities never less no matter how mysterious it all can be or not.
Maybe we will see those real super powerful versions of David that can easily kill Aliens and Engineers....just smash them instantly like a bug...I do look back at that film and wonder why David, who is stronger than many humans, possibly faster than the engineer....just stands there as his head is getting ripped off and then right after says nice trip Mr. Weyland. Just absolutely useless daft plot and dialog.
That is a big mystery why the writers put that in the script....maybe RS is just old and cannot make great epic movies anymore.....seems like James Cameron gets it right though....that scene in Avatar when big mechs are fighting it out with the Avatar creatures is soooooo cool....love that film!!!! LOVE IT!!! but for Prometheus we get a weak stupid David that stands there while his head is being torn off at the shoulders....makes you want to scream with the treatment that entire scene was given.....makes you wonder what really happened when they were filming that movie.
After several viewings, for me at least, Prometheus is a colorful film for juveniles and most certainly not a film for mature adults. You cannot take the film seriously for many reasons as an adult.
First there is the structure of the movie itself that seems to be more for young teens than real hard R horrors. Then there are the almost juvenile treatments with the love interests onboard the Prometheus...petty indifferences....then there are the monsters....Holoway's transformation is uninteresting and just not scary at all...maybe its scary for unsophisticated 10 year olds....the movie permeates with child like curiosities instead of more well constructed "Alien franchise" adult themes.
I forgot about this amazing song. I had more of a death/thrash metal vibe in mind, but this is a good tune with great lyrics and your music fits perfectly. Can someone help out this dude to make it happen?
John_Tucker Great song!
He has the knowledge and ability for sure. It would be great to see just a few paragraphs of a story.
I think Big Dave should write an encyclopaedia of all this stuff in the Alien worlds. Maybe some Choose Your Own Adventure type books with all his plot ideas wouldn't go astray either.
I think its Good we NEVER had a Sequel because a Problem with this would be HOW you Deal with the Organism/Weapon as IF this gets out into the Public then its Curtains for Mankind.
Indeed, it didn't need a sequel. A sequel would have made the original less potent. The implication was that the survivors would be frozen and die/go dormant and hopefully would not be found. It was an air tight example of a great mystery. As far as the prequel, it was unnecessary- it was basically the same movie but its ending did a good job of transitioning to the 1982 movie.....as long as you sat through the rolling end credits.
Perhaps a good mystery is a single movie with no sequels followed by prequels when the well of ideas run dry.
In Regards to the OT i was looking at HOW the ALIEN Franchise does-not have to be Confined to a 50LY from Earth and about the Xenomorph from LV-426.
There is a LOT of other things the Franchise could look at, it comes down to getting People to LOOK beyond ALIEN having to mean Xenomorph.
You could branch off with Spin Offs... even with TV Shows.
For example the Arcturians we know that Mankind has interacted with this Species who must be somewhat Humanoid?
Are they a Creation by the Engineers too?
If the Franchise just CANT steer away from the Xenomorph, then maybe you can give a FEW Different Variations of it.
If we look at the Black Goo on those Juggernauts, or the Eggs on the Derelict.... Are we going to Assume the ONLY ones that have done any Damage are the Ill Fated Space Jockeys Mission and Davids Bombardment of Planet 4?
So with a Vast amount of Space to be Explored and Engineers Ships that can Traverse Great Distances there is always the Chance of EVENTUALLY turning up at a World that has seen the Deployment of the Black Goo, or Eggs before.
Planet 4, LV-223 and LV-426 surely CANT be the only Place that such Horrors had been Restricted too ;)
Yes its likely Origae-6 could become another such Place... but there could be OTHER Worlds where these Horrors had become UNLEASHED!
Then there could be other Threats/Horrors that are NOT related to the Engineers or those Experiments on LV-223.
There could be other Races than just the Engineers, or even more Engineers.
There are so MANY other Avenues for a ALIEN Movie or Spin Off Franchise.... there is NO reason to go and Re-Write anything or give us Reboots and have others be merely Cryo-Dreams!
The Foundations for the ALIEN Franchise have been Expanded with Prometheus.... we dont have to be Stuck around Zeta 2 Reticuli
Now you got me Thinking ;)
In the First Trailer we see Amanda Collin (Mother) with a Child but she has LONGER HAIR than we see with Mother in the other Shots....... in the Latest Trailer we see Mother with the First Child and she has the SHORT HAIR that we see Mother with throughout most of the Footage.
I am Wondering if the First Image of a Child when Mother had Long Hair could be..... Marcus (Travis Fimmel)
WHY would he also be Kneeling Down to those Stone Temples?
Is Kepler 22B the Birthplace of the Mithraic Cult?
Is this WHY we see him Kissing Mother in the One Shot?
I think this is also a Character played by Amanda Collin and so does she Play TWO Characters? Does she just play MOTHER from TWO different Time Peroids?
Is this Cave Shot set on Kepler22B or is it on Earth and so similar to Dr Shaw's discoveries on Earth, what Drove people to this Place to Find the GODS?
@DK
I think thats a Interesting Thing to bring up..... which Raised by Wolves comes to Mind....
Imagine if you had Programed Androids to MAN a Mission to a Distant World, that would take Hundreds of Years... their MISSION is to ENSURE the Survival of the Human Race, and the Humans would be Stored as Cryogenic Frozen Embryo's
WHAT HAPPENS..... if this Said World when they Arrive already HAS some Intelligent Species that LIVE in a way that is Ancient so say its 2300 when the Androids Reach this World, but the BEINGS on this Planet are Thousands of Years behind us Technologically.
The Androids have NO real Programing to Deal with this Discovery as the Humans who Programed them ASSUMED that there is NO LIFE out there like us and the Planet would be Earth like but Baron of Civilization.
What would the Androids Main Protocol to Ensure the Survival of the Humans make of this Discovery?
Like in RBW they realize that Conflict on Earth between different Religions and Ideas and such lead to the DOWNFALL of Mankind... And so they could Determine there would be NO WAY that the Human Embryo's could be Raised in a WAY to Ensure a Peaceful New Eden and GET ON with the Natives....
Would the A.I then have to Conclude.... "sometimes to create, one must FIRST Destroy"
Its a Interesting thing to Ponder.... if say there was a ALIEN Species who are Escaping their Dying World and have Invested a LOT in a SINGLE Mission to SAVE their Species... Hundreds of Years this Mission comes to Earth and Discovers that its Already Populated....
Its TOO LATE to Find some other Place... Impossible... and the A.I of this SHIP had ONE Priority to Re-Populate the Species that Created them.....
Things would NOT look Good for Humanity ;)
And to be Honest..... prior to the Prequels i GUESS that they could have GONE for THIS exact Plot as FAR as the Space Jockey.... some kind of Enslaved Bio-Mechanical A.I that was Tasked with Finding a New World for the Starbeast.... But ALAS!
" i agree with almost everything, but i think David would kill gradually the adults"
Absolutely thats the WAY i look at it, he would use them to Build a Infrastructure so that Humans could Thrive and then he would KILL them OFF.. But he would also Experiment with some.
I Envisioned his Agenda would be to Engineer the Human Embryo's to Create a Superior Species of Humans and Raise them as their Creator. But he would also NEED some Eggs to be Stored some place for Protection of his Civilization but also as a Punishment and Means to DO AWAY with those who DO-NOT keep to the Path/Ways and Rules of Davids Kingdom ;)
Regarding the Queen i was not so sure we would go and see RS introduce us to a way the Traditional Queen would come about.
@DK
Certainly i do prefer some Mystery, because as you Pointed out this gives us something to Debate and Discus and also sometimes the Revelations can be a Disappointment to what you had Thought about for Years, or even a Contradiction.
The Thing is a Interesting One to bring up, it is ONE of the Movies i have Most Watched. We did get a Prequel that i felt was NOT that Bad, it had Flaws and some of the Effects were a bit of a Let Down... the Main Problem with that was the Survivors.... I think we should only have had the DOG and the TWO Norwegians giving Chase as Survivors.
I know there may be Interest with another Thing Movie but its a Case of HOW do you Cover the Organisms Origins without having Humans. So i think leaving the Space Ship as far as WHERE it came from and HOW the Thing got on board as well its Origins are something thats BEST to be KEPT a Mystery.
I like keeping it a Secret about WHO is The Thing at the End of the 1982 Movie..... I think its Good we NEVER had a Sequel because a Problem with this would be HOW you Deal with the Organism/Weapon as IF this gets out into the Public then its Curtains for Mankind.
About 20 Years ago i did come up with some IDEAS about a Direct Sequel though ;) Which would be about McReady being recovered Alone having KILLED off Childs. We see he is taken in for Questioning (Well we Discover this as the Movie Idea is SET some 15-20 Years Latter) so the Plot Continues that he was Convicted of Killing all of the Outpost 31 Team including Childs and that he was taken to a Secure Ward in a Psychiatric Hospital where he had Spent the Last 15-20 Years of his Life, Protesting his Innocence and Claiming about a Horrific Shape Changing Alien..
It got to the Point that he Started to Begin to Question if we was Indeed suffering from Psychosis. Until One Day a Scientist comes in and shows Evidence that the US Military have Recovered the Crashed Alien Ship.
Realizing he is NOT really Mad... McReady manages to Escape with the Help of the Scientist.
This is WHEN the Idea i had Branches Off into 3 Different Directions where i Fleshed Out the TWO a little but it became another Abandoned Project.
One of the Ideas would have actually revealed that a LOT of People are Infected but they DONT wish to Take Over everyone.... so it was kind of like a Invasion of the Body Snatchers Plot... which reveals some Intelligent Agenda to the Organism.
Someone wrote that it was likely we would not meet with beings but probably meet them via their technology. Technology via synthetics carrying biological samples sounds like a sensible way to go.
BigDave is right imo but I have a different take as a movie watching fan.
It seems like if the answers to a mystery are given, it can spoil things since the way the answers are given can rub fans the wrong way, especially considering different people were involved with the story telling in each movie over the course of decades. On the other hand, most people desire a sense of closure- but this is entertainment and not real life.
Personally, I think a good mystery ends with leaving some questions unanswered. It gives us things to think about and discuss. If all answers are given, there is no reason to discuss anything except for plot holes and such.
Leave 'em wanting more so there is always a sense of "what if."
You don't have to keep your answer limited to the Alien franchise.
The 1982 version of The Thing is a good example of a mystery. We don't know where it came from but saw what happened on a remote outpost with regular people. It ended with two survivors, presumably with one being The Thing, but we never knew for sure. It spawned tons of debate and still does- but an official answer was never given. I like that!
@BigDave, i agree with almost everything, but i think David would kill gradually the adults, according to his needs in the development of the Protomorph into a Xenomorph and in the creation of a Queen. When he achieves the creation of a Queen, he will need mothers for the insertion of the Xeno DNA by the facehuggers. Thus, he will build an army that should protect him and his civililization from the engineers and the human threat.
David has lots of fresh meat in the frige.
Thanks, @BigDave. Poor child raised by that two Wolves. Probably will turn into a monster.
In Roman mythology, twins Romulus and Remus were raised by wolves. Legend says they later founded the city of Rome.
Excellent points, especially the comparison between the eggs on Juggernaut vs the egg on Sulaco.
Exactly!!!
Think deep-range Explorer ships...massive, with crews that cycle through hypersleep and fitted with fast hyperdrives.
Absolutely and i THINK we may have to Accept that Eventually it could be LIKELY that we could see some kind of Reboot. Maybe some of us would be AROUND then... maybe some Sadly will not.
I think if this Happens then we should Brace Ourselves to Accept it as a Alternative Take for a New Generation like we saw with the Rise of the Planet of the Apes remake of The Planet of the Apes Franchise (after a not so well received First Attempt in 2001)
And Judge it on its own Merits and enjoy it or NOT as merely a Alternative to the Franchise of our Generation.
I However do-not think you have to do this with the ALIEN Franchise by Virtue of the Engineers Plot we have a Galaxy of Worlds, Species and Horrors we can YET be introduced to. We cant SAY the Horrors of LV-223 or the Xenomorph Eggs only ever made it as far as LV-426, Planet 4 or Origae-6.
We could also go to the FAR FAR reaches of the Galaxy or a Galaxy Far Far away, at a Time thats Present, Past or Future and be Introduced to other Humans or Similar, and the Engineers in a Spin Off Franchise.
The Further Away we are and the Further Back or Further Forwards in Time we go... then the Shackles of the Franchise are Removed and the more Creative and Sinister we can go ;)
While on the Subject of Planet of the Apes... here is a Qoute "I can't help thinking that somewhere in the universe there has to be something better than man."
So we could say "I can't help thinking that somewhere in the universe there has to be something better than the Engineers".
Good words.
It reminds me of a good scheme with the Godzilla and James Bond franchises - there are few films that take as a starting point/core, and all the rest can connect to them or to each other, but they don't in any way impede new stories, even if new films rewrite some previous stories. And look - over two dozen films for Godzilla and 007. It proves that this approach is very successful.
@Leto
I think what you mention does BRING up the MOST Important thing ;)
What we are dealing with is ENTERTAINMENT... the ALIEN Franchise is NOT in anyway FACT its Not History etc
And so things can CHANGE regarding the Franchise and the Direction it takes with each NEW Project. And so IF the Company who has the RIGHTS to the Franchise decided to make another Movie then that is their RIGHT and not the Fans to decide.
And so whatever they decide to do, then each FAN has their own Right to Decide what they Choose as Canon and what they Choose to Ignore.
So if they give us a Bring back Ripley kind of Aliens Sequel and make Alien 3 and Alien R as Non-Canon, then if some Fans wish to NOT accept the New Movie as Canon and ONLY go and Consider Alien 3 and Alien R as their TRUE sequels then thats their Right to do so ;) and Vice Versa of course.
When it comes down to Novels again they are like Expanded/Alternative Material that each Fan can accept as Canon or not.
Its not like the Franchise has a Laid Out Formula.. its not from a Pre-exisiting Set of Stories like say the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit are. Where there is a Beginning and a End. Or even a Series thats Controlled by the Works of a single Author like Harry Potter.
Alien was a Stand Alone, that was based of O'Bannon's Starbeast which itself was a Stand Alone.... These Stories could always have Sequels where the Creative Control Changes. And so a Variety of Expanded Universe Material and Sequels/Prequels i think if any Fans wish to NOT like Certain Movies as Canon thats up to them.
And so when it comes down to a ALIEN V then it will come down to what Disney would want, which Story they would go for and IF this effects other Movies in the Franchise and Re-Writes Canon/History then we either have to Accept it, or have the Freedom to Hold on to what we see as Canon but know that others have their Rights to what they see as Canon.
Personally for me..... i am NOT a FAN of the Dreams Angle.... it can just give Disney a Lazy Excuse to just Re-write stuff over and over and over....
I think there was some Potential with Blomkamps Ideas and the Red Harvest Project. I just DONT think they have to Resurrect Ripley to have another ALIEN Movie ;)
There are Plenty of Avenues to Explore in regards to giving us the Xenomorph back... even if we had to ACCEPT that LV-223 and LV-426 are BUST...
Those do-not mean the END of the ROAD....
We dont need Cryo-dreams... or Multiverses or Time-Travel and Especially if its to BRING BACK our Heroine from the Franchise... she had her Journey i think you have to Move on.
PS... by "you have to move on" i am talking about the Franchise in General and what to do with it and Not that Fans have to Move on ;)
Remember:
"Canon is the enemy of creativity"
I'm not against retcon of A3 & AR - the main condition is a good film. And A3 & AR are not enough. Mediocre at best.
Also, I'm not against Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection. but I'm absolutely against canon-thinking.
>>>"Off shoots are fine but don't rewrite history."
All mistakes are made with a serious face. The first mistake - make a clumsy film, which will be an obstacle to the development of the franchise or severely cripple it (Alien3). The second mistake - trying to save the mistake. Isn't correcting mistakes the main principle in life?
I'm increasingly convinced that the defenders of Alien 3 have an empty fear: that Alien 3 will lose an empty canon status. Alien 3 defenders must remember that in the first place is important - a good film. Not a canon status.
Defenders of Alien 3 should also remember that they still have their DVD/Blu-ray/online cinemas and will be able to continue watching Alien 3 at any time. There is no threat to Alien 3, except for the loss of empty canon status.
The very concept of the canon is a plague. Is it so bad that people will have a choice of what to watch - which direction of the story to choose? Should everyone be forced to follow one direction? In this case, you will never get rid of the poisonous and toxic notes about Alien 3.
P.S. I really liked Alien 3 until I discovered the real sequel: Earth Hive trilogy. And then I realized the devastating impact Alien 3 had on the franchise. A 28-year-old mistake must be fixed!
Absolutely Thoughts_Dreams
How are they going to get around this DREAM Arc?
Miss Weaver has not AGED a lot in 30 Years.... But if this Movie idea get the Green Light then by the Time its Released then we are looking at 35 Years since ALIENS and 43 since ALIEN. So she Awakens from Cryo-Sleep and has Aged 30-40 Years? While she has Aged Well you CANT really have her down as say Aged 5-10 Years after ALIEN or ALIENS and so then its a case of HOW LONG as she been in Cryo-sleep to AGE that much?
Unless we get a Heavy Use of Special Effects/CGI Overlay.
The ONLY real Logical way around this otherwise would be that she has been Kept in a Mental Ward for like 25 Years. Its then a case of is the Xenomorph Real? did ALIEN Happen?, did ALIENS Happen?
What Movies are going to become DREAMS? a Curveball would be if ALL OF THEM are..... but thats NOT going to Please the Fans, and if you removed ALIENS as a Dream then thats going to Cause a $%$ STORM!
If there is to be a ALIEN V then i think you have to either Continue after ALIEN R with a Plot that deals with Ripley 8 (I have 2 Ideas that get around her Age).
Or you go for a Movie that covers the Xenomorph but i think you need to CHANGE IT.....
You have to Evolve or Change it in someway, be that a Change from some Natural Progress, as a Result of some Environmental Changes or a Engineered Change.
Going back to Walter Hill and his Alien V the Concerns are the Dream within a Dream and HOW he says that Ripley will Face a NEW THREAT!
What if that Threat is NOTHING to do with the Xenomorph and the Xenomorph is only a Figment of her Imagination thats IMPLANTED by the Real Antagonist of the PLOT.
I think it depends on WHAT we see as a Mystery, and to look at what is Different from a Intended Mystery or just a Lazy Plot Avoidance.
*Derelict in ALIEN.... a Good Mystery
*Eggs on the Sulaco.... Lazy Plot Convenience
I actually dont mind Mystery and Ambiguity as they give you something to THINK about and Discus. But i know some like to be SPOON FED instead. I usually find those who like the Spoon Feeding also seem to like the Gungo Ho Action Flicks ;)
I think when it comes down to having a Mystery in a Movie then as a Stand Alone then i think its OK.
If its a Planned Series/Franchise then you at least have to EXPECT that those Working on the Movies actually have the Answer to the Mystery its just they have NOT yet got to Reveal it yet...
I think if we look at ALIEN then the Derelict, Pilot and Eggs where all a MYSTERY but its a Mystery that has TWO PARTS.
1) The Space Jockey and Derelict.
This was a Mystery we NEVER knew about WHO the Space Jockey was, or WHERE he was from, or WHERE he was going. We could assume the Space Jockey Race had Built/Created the Derelict Ship. But nothing else was KNOWN and it Never had to be.
2) The Egg Cargo
As this was really what the Movie came down to, then at the Time of ALIEN then this was a Mystery but it was ONE we would kind of have some Idea about. We could be left to Ponder.....
a) The Eggs were something the Space Jockey race had Engineered or Created, in which case you could be Pushed to think about a Sinister Reason for them.
b) The Eggs were Discovered by the Space Jockey and they was being Transported, in which case your left to Wonder if this was the FIRST encounter with them and they was going to Study them..... or they had Already Encountered them before and are Transporting them which could indicate maybe a Sinister Motive.
While in the Movie both 1/2 were left Unanswered, with the Agenda of the Company in the Franchise we could ASSERT what the Reason for the Eggs were.....
Back in Day.... then Ridley Scott had NOT revealed anything about (1) but in regards to (2) he had indeed indicated the EGGS are used as Bio-Logical Warfare, even at times Indicating they was a Engineered Weapon.
so my Point about Mystery is if its something that EFFECTS the Plot then maybe at some point you need a ANSWER and so thats the case with the Eggs.... but then with other Aspects like WHO was the Space Jockey then this could have been Kept as a Mystery.
By that i mean that as the EGGS played a Large Role in the Franchise then the Mystery of their Purpose was something that Ridley Scott etc had known VERY much about and had Mentioned about them (Biological Warfare). So even though this was NEVER revealed in the Original Franchise, what we had was that RS had KNOWN what their Purpose was.
When it came down to the Space Jockey Mystery and WHO are they? WHERE are they from? and WHERE was he going?
This did-not really have any Effect on the Franchise and was a Mystery and One that maybe should have been Kept. And at the Time of Alien ==> Aliens i am NOT sure that anyone working on the Movies had even Thought About or had a Definite Answer to WHO the Space Jockey was and WHERE they come from and WHO was they in Conflict with.
No Soon as you go to make a Prequel then those Mysteries are something that FANS would EXPECT to have Answers.
I think with Mysteries again then Prometheus had made a SET-UP that would likely had lead to know more about the Space Jockey Race but it did make a Reveal that led to more Questions.... And it did kind of INDICATE to the Xenomorph Origins but it was FAR from Spoon Fed.
I think the PROBLEM you have then is IF we have just a Stand Alone Movie that maybe would NEVER get a Sequel then what you have is LEFT more Questions/Mysteries regarding the Engineers/Space Jockey and the Xenomorph Origins...
You have a MOVIE that has just Left More Questions to the TWO Mysteries of ALIEN.... where as really you should have LEFT it so ONE is kind of Answered.... leaving another (more about the Engineers) as maybe the Mystery that MAY or MAY-NOT get Explored.
It only gives away some of the FATE regarding the Children is all ;)
Things that some of the Reviews had Revealed are there was 6 Initial Children via Embryo's and that the World they got to was indeed Kepler 22B
Not too BIG a Spoiler is that Mother and Co have been on Kepler 22B for 12 Years before the Arrival of other Humans.
Nice clip. Can already see how the tension is going to build. I think the clip ended just before a spoiler.
https://ew.com/tv/raised-by-wolves-clip-ridley-scott/
Here is a Little Teaser Clip....
WARNING... the Page it is on gives some Information that would be Considered a Spoiler, the CLIP also could be Considered a Spoiler.
"His religion is CREATION of what? Of a NEW CIVILIZATION"
Well thats how i Interpreted in 2018 where RS could be taking us, he would Charade as Walter.... get some of the Colonist to Build the Colony Infrastructure to the Point it is Good Enough to be a Settlement..
Then KILL the Adults.... and Raise/Engineer the Embyros so that David can see IF he can PERFECT the Human Species and Surpass what the Engineers had Created with his Lambs while also having Surpassed what the Engineers had attempted with their WOLF (Deacon).
I think it was VERY WELL done....
What we do know is it appears the Engineers will NEVER return to Earth, Certainly NOT during 2105-2180
It would be NICE to see the Engineers again... and IF those tasked with Introducing them USE their Brains then you CAN have a Movie about them that does-not Contradict the Franchise.
The Year is 2190 and Finally a W-Y Mission to Investigate Kepler 452b has arrived.
This World some 1400LY from Earth could show Signs of a Human Settlement....
This Settlement could either...
*Be Long Gone but have Ruins where we have Evidence of Humans, and Engineers.... but what Caused its Downfall?
*Could have some Survivors from such a Event above!
*Could be Completely intact.... upon the Arrival of a Human Ship.
This kind of PLOT can Introduce us to the Engineers again.
"I will give them fucking aliens"
Certainly seemed like Ridley Scott was NOT a Fan of having to make a Literal Prequel and introduce the Xenomorph. However he did seem to be Pleased with Jon Spaights work, but FOX back then wanted to REMOVE the Xenomorphs and after seeing Lindeloffs work it seemed that Ridley Scott felt that it was the Right Direction.
I feel however that the RIGHT Direction would have been to include SOMETHING that was similar but Different because apart from Space Cobra Rape. And Angry Bob the Engineer then MOST of the Fatalities came from Toxic Avenger Fifield.
It needed a Little Something to Tease to a Alien Connection.
In the Re-Write that i Started in 2012 i added more Crew ;) only 3-4 more...
*The Hammerpede tries to Attack Ford, but it misses and Janek Shoots it and we Zoom in and can see what appear to be TINY EGGS that come out of it.
I introduce a Scene where during the Fifield Attack we CUT to Milburn and he Chest Bursts a Baby Head Alien.
This Alien is later shown Grown to be about 4ft and I pondered to either add it PRIOR to when they awoke the Engineer, or after Dr Shaw was running away.
So it would have appeared as either.
*Attacking the Team as they was Entering the Juggernaught.
*Attacks TWO Guards left outside the Juggernaught while Weyland and Co go to Visit the Engineer. Later it Enters and Distracts the Engineer before he can get to Dr Shaw and so we see the Engineer suffer a Slash Wound and then KILL the ALIEN.
*Or as Dr Shaw Runs off past the Security Guards they Follow but we see ONE is attacked by the ALIEN. We see the other Guard Fail the Jump to get Off the Opening Hanger. The ALIEN is then Chasing our Dr Shaw and Vickers and catches Vickers and is Clawing away at her but they then BOTH get Squashed by the Juggernaught.
I was thinking something that would LOOK either like those Concepts Combined, or similar to the Concept Below.
It would have given us a INDICATION that the Hammerpede had LAID a Egg in Milburn that then Produces a New Monster
Raised by wolves cast interviews:
Travis Fimmel interview:
The editor makes parallelisms between similar events of Prometheus and Alien Covenant, which is an interesting idea and i think it works.
BD
I saw some of the alternative Fifield-monsters, they looked better than the one we got. The Zombie Fifield is just bad, one of many bad decisions that affected this movie.
There was also a deleted scene where Janek and Vickers talk and where he mentions the Engineers did something that they shouldn't. He mentioned about something exploding and someone spilled something also it shows a bit about Vicker's personality. Unfortunately a big piece of the editing in Prometheus was really poor because it could have been so much better, Covenant did the same mistake.
DK
About the "I will give them fucking aliens"-comment, the AVP-galaxy podcast episode 68 where they debate Covenant one year later, at 12:50 they mentioned that Scott said "I'll give them fucking aliens". Fox wanted aliens (Xenos) in AC and Scott didn't but they wanted it so Scott included them in the movie. It's probably best to see the comment in that context.
To download the episode go here:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/podcasts/
Go number 68 and download it, you will hear that at 12:50. Not from the horse's mouth but at least they mentioned it so there is a possibility that is what he said but I don't know.
Both Fox and Scott were wrong about the movies IMO. Fox were wrong for believing that the problem with Prometheus was the lack of Xenos and Scott for making it about David.
That doesn't tell us a lot, we need more information than that. I am against everything that erases Alien 3 from the official timeline. Having 3 and 4 as dreams is lame, Ripley's end in 3 is something that I really doubt that they can top. Ripley was good while she lasted but they need to put her to rest, really. She wasn't that great in AR and even though it was a clone it was still a version of her. Unfortunatly the thought of having another Ripley movie in any way doesn't excite me at all, it is more of the same plus if she is poorly written (again! Hi AR) they will risk to turn her into a parody. To me she is an example that you bring up in conversations about sucessfully written female characters and I don't want her to be turned into a joke.
Not even sure if the clone is around maybe it is but it shouldn't be in the movie. It is like with friends that you don't see a lot, they are around but they are not there so to speak. Maybe they can deal with her like that, by giving it an explanation if it's even necessary.
About Blomkamp and Cameron I kind of agree with Blackwinter-witch on this one. I don't want to crap on people that support the idea because art is subjective and we should try to respect that people have different ideas about the franchise. What Cameron did with Aliens was kind of interesting since it was a different tone and genre compared to Alien but I doubt that they would improve the franchise by making Alien 5.
Not sure if I've seen that one before. It's really interesting how he talks about it and how he's trying to tie some things together. They probably put those things there for some reason.
He he, speaking of Looney Tunes that BD mentioned (I didn't start this! LOL!), how about having Bugs Bunny in an Alien movie? He could probably outrun the Xenos without a problem even though we might get a problem when it comes to building suspense. ;) Just imagine the Internet memes that it would create.
