Comments (Page 151)

Certainly ;)

I think we need to LET GO of the Xenomorph it is what it is (Engineered Creation or Bi-Product of a Failed Bio-Weapons Division).

There are other HORRORS that are Connected to the same eventual Origin of the Xenomorph...

There is a Wealth of Concepts and Fan-Art that can be Inspiration for something a bit more Different...

And NOT to Forget the Ideas that HR Giger had... and what NEVER made it into the Franchise from STARBEAST...

There is a INCEPTION point to those Engineers Experiments that are connected to the Horrors of Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

While the Xenomorph may seem to be Degraded.... i think instead of TRYING to Revolve around it and UPLIFT it....

It has a Distant Origin... it came from SOMETHING!

At some point LV-223 would have had NO Outposts... did it HOWEVER have some Native Organism?  Or even IF-NOT there is a Precursor to those Experiments and the Black Goo.

So there is something you can do to Introduce something ELSE that you can UPLIFT to the Starbeast.... that can be TRACED as the Source to it all.

You could take these by HR Giger and come up with a Fresh Take on those ORIGINAL designs.

Regarding the use of CGI...

Then improvements are made every Year... in 10 Years Time and with a BIG BUDGET then you could Resurrect any Character from a Movie Franchise and you would NOT really be able to tell they are CGI.

At the MOMENT... its Expensive Per Minute.... if its DONE right then Yeah! it looks Great.... if its NOT then it can look a Bit Wonky......  any use of CGI is best used in SMALL amounts....

To have a Ripley in CGI to look 30 Years Younger and for her to Feature in say 60%+  of the Movie would be VERY EXPENSIVE to get Right....

As years go by it would become Easier and Cheaper though.

It would be INTERESTING to see HOW much Different this is than Blomkamps Idea....   It seems that Blomkamp may have given us a Alternative Sequel to ALIENS thats set 20+ Years latter.  But it would appear he would give NO REASON for Alien 3 and Alien R.. it would be like Accepting a Alternative Direction.

With Walter Hills idea it appears they will SHOW that Alien 3 and Alien R are just NIGHTMARES...

The BIGGEST Problem i have with this Direction is it is in essence a RETCON.... and ONCE you have Disney go this route then you have TWO very Problematic Scenarios.

1) The Movie Bombs!  Then its a case of WHERE to do we go then?  The only Option would be to STICK it away for another 10-20 Years and do a Complete REBOOT!

2) The Movie is a HIT.... then its a case of Disney could then just go and RETCON whatever they wanted to in the Franchise.... Prequels.. oh NEVER happened...  ALIEN.. lets remake it with CGI Ripley!

The TAGLINE is also a Concern for me...

"A Dream within a Dream"

Whats that MEAN? they could use this to make even ALIEN just  a Dream!

The Biggest Question would be in WHAT kind of Guise will come our Xenomorph Threat?  Has Walter Hill stuck with the Vanillamorph?

IF NOT... then its a case of IF it gets the Green Light would DISNEY want them to NOT steer to FAR from what Fans are Accustomed to Aesthetically.

While the Prequels are a Touchy Subject and are in a Sticky Situation...  

I think that YES give another ALIEN Movie is a Good Idea, but i DONT think you have to go for the Alien 3 and Alien R had NEVER happened and BRING BACK our Ripley!

The Topic i made the other week ALIEN: GAMMA was in light of this News about essentially making a ALTERNATIVE sequel to ALIENS and my Topic was to look at lets say if we could have taken a Different Direction after ALIENS back in the 90's then WHAT would you do?

But none the less.... the idea i had for ALIEN: GAMMA is something that they could still go with, as far as the NUTS/BOLTS and simply do-not have Ripley.

2179 saw TWO Major Events in the Franchise..

1) The Destruction of Hadleys Hope.

2) The Death of Ripley via Sacrifice to prevent the Company from Obtaining a Xenomorph.

What is the STATUS of the Derelict on LV-426 after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope?

IF its a Total No Go!.... then WHY would it seem that LV-426 was the ONLY place for the Xenomorph? If this is NOT the case then again THIS is other Avenues to Explore.

I see NO Reason for a RETCON other than to RUN out of Ideas and think that you have to give the Fans the Xenomorph and RIPLEY in order to make $$$$$$

But $$$$ is all that Matters and Fan-service Sells and this WILL be the Direction that DISNEY would take (if any).

I think IF you want to Carry on with a Ripley.... then the Ripley 8 Arc is the way to GO!  A Proper Chronological ALIEN V.

Apart from the T800?

Remind me, which character from T2 did Cameron kill off in Dark Fate?

hox

>>>Cameron was devastated when his carefully crafted characters were just snuffed out in an instant.

Yes, but that’s literally what he did (or approved) in Dark Fates with his characters, for the sake of sjw-scum agenda. Therefore, I think that he destroyed this myth about himself. This is not the same Cameron who filmed Aliens.

 @Leto

Great post. It has been a while since I saw those two films so yeah it is hard to keep up with every detail that is important when considering retcon for new canon.

Alien 3:

- Unknown origin of ovomorphs.

- Unknown number of facehuggers.

- Strange changes in facehugger's design (AC version)

- Changing the design of cryopods.

- Ripley's hallucinations.

- Sudden Michael Bishop - Android creator, and also he looks like an android.

- Ripley's latest report from Nostromo, at the end of the film.

These and many other questions have no answers. And some answers are far-fetched.

A large number of mistakes and inconsistencies, also meaningless changes - really create a somewhat surrealistic perception of the film.

Cryosleep nightmare? Rather - a delusional dream.

The same with Alien Resurrection - the story is more logical and has no strong mistakes, but the visual style doesn't allow one to doubt the illusion of what is happening.

Thus, two stories have loopholes to exclude them from the canon and moving to cryonightmares category.

I think if any thing is done in the right way it could be a great film. Bringing Ripley back not so sure how I feel about that just yet.

I like the idea of Weaver taking on that role again....however she is much older now and just does not look anything like she used to because of her advanced age. 

I really enjoyed the sequel to to Blade Runner but I did not like the seeing Harrison Ford at almost 80 years old reprise his role of Decard. I still enjoyed the film very much in almost every respect and I think its one of the better science fiction films because of the great acting and special effects. Every frame of Blade Runner 2049 is pure eye candy. 

The character of Ripley would have the same effect on me I feel unless they have a very good plot device for her advanced age. Weaver is 70 with really good make up she might pass for 50 not sure. 

While we are here discussing this I would like to bring up a very important aspect of Blade Runner 2049. No spoilers of course but the movie has been out for three years now. 

When I saw the scene with Rachel I thought they had a very close look alike actress playing Rachel. I had no idea Rachel is all highly detailed composites, layers, and computer animation. Let me back up a little her face is computer generated the body under neath the computer generated head is that of real actor.

What I am getting at is that I have no doubt in as little as ten years we will get these actors that starred in movies years ago and they will be fully rendered from AI and we will not be able to tell they are not real. 

The animated Rachel in Blade Runner 2049 is just one of the newer techniques they are using now to get these passable CGI representations that look like real human beings. 

I really do not care about actors and how they are used to make art. All I care about is the art....we know these are make believe created worlds....so the fact they are starting to make the actors and perhaps actors that never existed is a very interesting concept.

I am not sure how an audience watching an Alien film 20 years from now might see a younger Ripley and not be able to tell any difference that it is a computer generated actor. I do not believe it makes any difference. Art is art and so I do not want to judge others crafts and skills....all I know is I like it very much. I have come back to the scene of Rachel a few times in the past couple of years and each time even though I know she is not real I feel she is....if you have not seen the movie please do and enjoy. You are missing out on the what the future holds possible by limiting your horizons for this very real future. It is going to happen no matter what so we should embrace the good when and were we can.

I do not care if they RETCON Alien 3, and 4. 

Of course I am going to go for the ride like every other Alien fan.

What do I think of Alien 3 and Resurrection being hypersleep nightmares? Brilliant! Because I had the same idea myself a while back, ha ha.

Let’s face it, Alien 3 was a sorry end for Ripley, and the sequel was a dreary uninspired letdown. It would be for the best if they turned out to be bad dreams. In fact the CGI explosion at the end of Resurrection is so bad, that a shabby dream can be the only logical explanation of events!

Cameron was devastated when his carefully crafted characters were just snuffed out in an instant. It would be great to see them back again.

Plus, there’s still room to explore the Engineer Universe so I have my fingers crossed for both story arcs to continue.

ALIEN V can start from Ripley waking up at the Space Station, and it's really been 57 years. 

I'm with ya Big Dave, I would love to see more of the unused LV-223 concepts explored and fleshed out.

Swiss Made is kind of strange, but the early Giger work and how it showed up in  Alien is definitely there.

Substite Burke with Hill and Ripley with Sigourny with the OP and enjoy! Sorry- cannot imbed but the vid is only about two minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaqCe6jQboA

https://www.artstation.com/munk

This is the Artist.

Absolutely the Art and Aesthetic that HR Giger had brought to the Franchise is ONE of the Major Reasons it was so ICONIC and DIFFERENT.

We have to thank Dan O'Bannon for showing Ridley Scott the Works by HR Giger.... if it was NOT for that then our ALIEN would have LOOKED so much Different.

Slightly Off-Topic

The Imagine in the BANNER was the Earlier Concept for the ALIEN i would love to had seen this Design Used... maybe if we go to Explore what Predated the LV-223 Experiments.

And THUS introduce the Starbeast.

When i look at these Concepts..

It gives me the IDEA that you could have a EGG thats Large, that from this we have a Smaller Octopus/Squid like Organism that then Grows to like those Concepts...

The HR Giger Concept in the Banner looks similar (Head Does) so maybe as the Creature Grows to ADULT the Tentacles will Mature into a Body, Legs and Arms.  Yet a Beast that also has 4 Tentacles.

something like this as the STARBEAST i think could Work... You dont have Chest Busters... it does HOWEVER need a HOST to EGG/COCOON Morph.

Maybe the Starbeast can Implant something into a Host that would Result in a Chest/Back Buster that they USE to Carry Out Certain Tasks for their Species.

                                                      Alien 3

                                                       1990

Summary: The Sulaco is found drifting in deepspace, twenty lightyears from Earth and a week late, the USM Conestoga is sent to investigate. It finds the Sulaco without power and has been infested with what they think are maggots? The floors and ceilings are inches deep in a slime like mold. The mold has eaten into crucial Sulaco systems, causing the ship to stall. The mold has started to attack the cryochambers, successfully infiltrating Newts and bishops. Newt is hit hard, she is badly bloated,  the maggots have entered her nose, mouth...later they find, attached to her brain stem, you can see them crawling under skin. The marines rescue the remaining Hyper-Sleep Pods and set up a quarantine aboard the Conestoga. They find the Sulaco’s dropship is covered with the microscopic plague.

In a race to heal Newt, MUTHER and Weyland Yutani each recommend returning to LV-426 to find a cure. Hicks agrees, this is alien and Earth knows nothing about it. Bishop also thinks this is the correct course of action...Ripley will do whatever it take to cure Newt!

They locate the derelict. Bishop powers it up(with help from another synthetic), they download it’s knowledge base. Weyland Yutani want to fly the juggernaut back to Earth for study. They find a the cure for Newt, she is on the mend.

Ripley, Hicks and Bishop eventually destroy the juggernaut (by releasing it’s stored anti-matter).

Just a quick idea.

TV Series could Work....

Less Risk... but then it depends on Budget...

The more Xenomorph or similar you show the More Budget you NEED else you could get ROPY CGI or Comical Man in Suits.

Unless its Kept to the Shadows like LESS than even ALIEN 3

The ALIEN Franchise has a Wealth of Sub-Plots than just being about Ripley, Queens and Eggs.  Especially in light of Alien Resurrection and Prometheus.

I see it as RS does, well as he had Indicated before.. There is only so much Face Hugging, Chest Popping, Snarling and Egg Laying that you can do.

@Ignorantguy

Yeah looking at it then it could be Possible that she was

"Big Things have Small Beginnings" Indeed there was SCOPE with Prometheus.... The Xenomorph just a Small Part of a Much Bigger Picture.

Something that some ALIEN/ALIENS Fans may be Disappointed about. and SADLY i think the Xenomorph would have been Elevated more if RS had made a Alien 2 or Alien 3....

talking about AVP, as a lot of that Interview seemed to be more Geared towards the Disappointment of that CONCEPT.

But i think regardless the Prequels had caused some Problems as i attempted to Highlight in my previous Post. In that the Direction and Changes are NOT something that pleases EVERYONE but thats the Poisoned Chalice of trying to do a Prequel to ONE of the Most Iconic Franchises in Sci-Fi.

My take on what i think BlackAnt was looking at in Context to RS is as follows.

The Inception:  We had Starbeast which seemed that RS had liked, and this Idea had some Evolving by the Time we get to Production such as Giler and Hills additions.

HR Giger: It seemed that RS was not Happy with the look of the Monster and Sets and after being shown some of HR Gigers work he felt that THIS was what was needed.  And so RS was pleased with the Aesthetic Look that came from HR Giger.

The Derelict: This was a Scene that RS had fought HARD to include because he FELT it was VERY Important to the Story despite its Limited Screen Time.  The Budget Restrictions also meant we had to Can the Pyramid/Egg Silo.  But it came across that RS was VERY pleased with this VERY ALIEN World that was introduced.

Future Plans: It seemed that RS had ideas of where he would take us NEXT, which he had Toyed with going to WHERE the ALIEN was from and also WHY the Space Jockey had those Eggs.  He also seemed like he wanted to ELEVATE the Xenomorph beyond what we saw in ALIEN (One idea was to have it have some more of a Agenda and Intelligence than rely on Survival Instincts).

The Sequel:  By the Time we get to a Sequel, RS was not able to Commit to it and so JC came along with ALIENS, i think that RS was disappointed he could not RETURN to the Franchise and the way that JC had Continued would NOT have been how he would have.  But he did say he had Respect for the Path that movie had taken.

ALIENS had Catapulted the Franchise, Merch, Toys, Comics and Games would be Spawned Out over the NEXT 4-5 Years.

Alien 3: Indeed RS seemed to be wanting to RETURN to the Franchise, it seemed that JC was not so Interested.  It appears that RS would have wanted to go to WHERE the Xenomorph came from and WHY the Space Jockey had used them.  While Cameron would have then maybe done a 4th Movie that would RETURN to Ripley, Newt and Hicks.

I would Assume that RS felt there was a way to Rescue what he thought about the Xenomorph and NO-ONE had Explored their Origin and Connection to the Space Jockey and WHERE they both came from.  It seemed he Felt you could UPLIFT the Xenomorph beyond being Space Ants.

With Word that the STUDIO was going to do a AVP Cross-Over then RS would have been Concerned this would PORTRAY the Xenomorph in a Different Light and TARNISH what Representation he had in Mind...  so this is maybe WHY he walked away.

AVP: By the Time we got to a Eventual AVP, its key to Remember the Xenomorph had been shown MANY Times in Comics and Games etc, where the Portrayal was maybe Very Different to what he would have Explored.  There was Talk about himself and James Cameron returning to the Franchise, but the STUDIO decided to go with AVP.

It seemed RS had LOST interest at this point and saw the Xenomorph as something that had been Portrayed in a way that he Felt could not be Rescued to maybe his Plans.  He certainly saw that the Xenomorph had been Done Over and Over and after AVPR well it became a bit of JOKE.

The Prequels: When they had decided they Wanted another ALIEN Movie, it had Evolved to a Point of doing a PREQUEL, because NO-ONE had ever  Explored the Space Jockey, or the Xenomorph Origins and WHAT was the Space Jockey doing with that Cargo?

The Xenomorph Idea now Firmly seen as a Form of Biological Warfare/Terror (RS had indicated he saw it as this quite a WHILE before the Prequels).

So its ROLE is Reduced compared to what RS would have likely had GAVE US if he had made ALIEN 2 or ALIEN 3

So as it was a Biological Weapon/Terror then RS had to come up with WHY would the Space Jockey have such a THING and HOW...

The Engineers Plot: So the Engineers were BORN the Greater Plot about a Ancient Race who are Involved in Genetic Manipulation and Creation, even as FAR as being Responsible for Humanity.  Who at a Certain Point became UPSET, Disappointed and Concerned with some of their Creations and then BEGAN doing Experiments and Engineering to Create a Weapon to Punish and Eradicate Species... the Engineered Xenomorph being ONE such Experiment.

Prometheus: It seemed likely that after Alien Engineers they would have likely gone on to Explore the Engineers in any Sequel as this is something that is NOT covered, and HELD some Mystery as to WHO they are and WHY they do what they do and WHAT else have they Created.

So those working on the Project had Decided that Actually the Engineers Plot is BIGGER and something you can Expand on ONCE you have Answered WHERE/HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph came to be.  And that we have already seen the Xenomorph in Every Movie so FAR and that the other Parts of Alien Engineers are more Important to Evolve.

And so Prometheus was Born!

At this POINT it seems that RS felt the Xenomorph had been done over and over and is Merely just ONE Horrific Experiment or Consequence of those Horrors on LV-223.  And that there was MORE regarding the PLOT that led to the Xenomorph and more to the Engineers to Explore and so they could GO OFF and Steer Away from the ALIEN and LV-426

At this POINT we have Ridley Scott who sees that there was NOT much you could do with the Xenomorph and to keep some Mystery as ONCE you show HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph got onto the Derelict then your left with ALIEN on-wards.

He Felt there was much more to the Engineers Plot that could be Expanded on and other THEMES that could be Explored in a SPIN-OFF.

Regarding Alien Covenant i will come to that after, but it seems this was NOT the direction that RS had intended. So was at this point their a bit of Sabotage to Diminish the Xenomorph further?

MAYBE... but that Plot did FIT with the Themes of Prometheus.

"Big Things have Small Beginnings" Indeed there was SCOPE with Prometheus.... The Xenomorph just a Small Part of a Much Bigger Picture.

Something that some ALIEN/ALIENS Fans may be Disappointed about. and SADLY i think the Xenomorph would have been Elevated more if RS had made a Alien 2 or Alien 3....

"Big Things have Small Beginnings" Indeed there was SCOPE with Prometheus.... The Xenomorph just a Small Part of a Much Bigger Picture.  Something that some ALIEN/ALIENS Fans may be Disappointed about. and SADLY i think the Xenomorph

would have been Elevated more if RS had made a Alien 2 or Alien 3....

At Present it appears that RS felt there was NOT much more you could have done with the Xenomorph compared to what could be Expanded with the other things in Prometheus.  It does seem that he Feels there is NOT much left with the Xenomorph beyond the Reasons of WHY someone would Create.  But he had said if you go to Explore the Beast more then you have to TRY and Change it... EVOLVE it.

BlackAnt  A tv show is most likely the best we can all hope for now...

Agreed. I have advocated this for a long time. It (they) can cover different aspects of the series- Xenos, Engineers, the human element etc. Shows that apeal to different fans but they all like the Alien series. The fan base is very diverse in how it would like to see things advance. It seems impossible to push every body's buttons with a two hour movie. IMO, the IGN Alien Day's shorts proved it. I don't think we need to wait years for a movie while fans chomp at the bit. 

BigDave A Pumpkin Head figure would be great!

While it has some interesting features, I don't like the face much. I wish the Jokermorph would have taken off.

@ignorantGuy

Ridley Scott only returned to the world he created in 1979 with Prometheus, the 2012 Alien movie prequel. "I think it caused more problems than it was worth," Weaver added.

What difference does it make now anyway...whether Weaver said it about AVP or not...you know how much money the last film made at the box office....the studios ultimately lost money on it. Those films have to bring in twice what they were made for to break even on the money spent for production and marketing....here is some math for you.

Alien Covenant brought in 240,000,000 million globally at the box office....this could be do to a lot of things but really the point is that is not worth taking a chance to put up another 100 to 150 million on a big budget film only to make a 40 - 60 million profit....they might easily see a 75 million loss because of the marketing.

There is audio of the interview specifically of the Comicon at London...working on finding that for you...Usually reporters can be sued for liable taking what people say out of context so I firmly believe she said what she said. Even more concerning is that she used to F word to describe the other movies in the franchise which does not speak favorably of her demeanor towards the producers and all the studios involved in making all these films. So no matter what you say now about the MacGuffins pulled on Prometheus and Alien Covenant you don't know what is really happening in these films for sure which is why all the other people on here have been discussing it for years trying to figure it out....we do know one thing is for certain...RS was not happy with the studio cutting the budget on Prometheus...this is all well documented.

Prometheus is a good looking film but it also has some plot holes you could push a galaxy through. Say what every you want. It is doubtful any of the producers or current studio that owns the production rights will take a chance on producing another title when there are so many other more profitable franchises without as much monetary risk.

A tv show is most likely the best we can all hope for now....audience attendance will be significantly down for years to come considering the present health concerns with public theaters just compounding the entire matter of possible 100 million dollar plus film at the box office just that much more.

I like the head, looks pretty scary and reminds me of IT the clown and the Joker 

Giger pairing with Tim Burton would be totally awesome. It would be like Alien in the Wonderland. 

@BigDave .... this quote "I think it caused more problems than it was worth," was said it regard to AVP not Prometheus... read the full quote. Let's not argue about what was not said

Its a decent attempt... does remind me a bit of PUMPKIN HEAD though ;)

@BlackAnt

I think in Context to how you look at Retcon, then the Franchise has Continually done that..... O'Bannon and Shusetts idea was RETCON by Hill and Giler, the Combine of the Pyramid and Ship and HR Gigers Concepts had then RETCON that....  ALIENS then came along and did some RETCON.

Only Alien 3 and Alien R have not really CHANGED much.

Each Director, each Person Pulling and Paying for the Strings at the Studio all come in and CHANGE things.

"Back to continuity....but how did David make the Alien if a pack of them kills all the Engineers on LV-223 the movie before Alien Covenant"

This is something thats OPEN for Debate.... via the Ambiguity of Prometheus.   We have done the WHAT had Killed the Engineers to DEATH on here...

What we certainly have is NO indication the Xenomorph had Pre-Existed before Alien Covenant.. NOTHING concrete.  But we also had NOTHING much to suggest it did-not Pre-Exist the LV-223 Outbreak.  If we ignore the Production Team Comments that is.

UNTIL we have Alien Covenant... but then we have the ADF Novel and we have been OVER that over and over and over.

What we do know is the Engineers Experiments have Created Horrors that are SIMILAR to the Xenomorph, they could have Created MANY such Horrors.... we do-not know 100% what is their ORIGIN its where the GOO becomes a case of the Chicken/Egg or something that is used on a Chicken/Egg that is the INCEPTION of the Horrors that Followed.

Exploring that INCEPTION is where they can introduce some of the STUFF that seemed so ALIEN from the First Movie and to bring in a STARBEAST....   And Accept the Xenomorph is just a Genetically Manipulated Experiment which Traces its routes to the INCEPTION of what STARTED the Experiments and Origin of the GOO.

Again you get some Fans who will NOT let go that the Xenomorph is NOT this Great Grand thing that the Franchise should REVOLVE around... i have some Friends who are Adamant that the Mural in Prometheus is a Juvenile Queen Xenomorph and the Black Goo is in essence from the Queen!

They also see the Space Jockey as a Giant Elephantine race who tried to STEEL a Xenomorph Ship and Paid the Price!

Everyone is Entitled to Interpret it how they see FIT... no one is RIGHT or WRONG because Future Movies can always CHANGE stuff so any Idea/Theory becomes NULL/VOID.... or could become to have Solid Basis.

 "I think it caused more problems than it was worth,"

That is purely her Opinion, i can agree that it had caused a Rift with the Fanbase though, while for some Fans they saw the Potential of a Expansion.

The Problem with a Prequel when you are going to ANSWER who the Space Jockey are, where the Xenomorph came from and WHAT the Space Jockey was doing with the Xenomorph.... IS that no matter which way you decide to EXPLAIN it you are NEVER going to please everyone because they would all have their OWN ideas about WHAT those Answer should be.

Depending on HOW you Answer those or WHAT your idea is even if you DONT show every detail... then it SETS the Path for what is NEXT as far as Eggs/Xenomorphs....  depending on the Answers will effect HOW far you can go with the Xenomorph before you RUN out of ideas.

The Evolution from Alien Engineers to Prometheus still keeps to same kind of Broad Plot... and in regards to the Xenomorph it was a Result of Experiments conducted on a Engineer Outpost with the AIM of Creating a Horrific Beast that would be used to Eradicate/Punish those who the Engineers became Concerned with.

Bio-Logical Warfare....  So IF the Engineers had NEVER decided to Experiment in the Creation of such Horrors there would be NO XENOMORPH!  This also applies if we go for the David is the Creator Route.... no Engineers Experiments prior and NO XENOMORPH!

So the Xenomorph was to the Engineers just a Weapon or a Creation that was Engineered from the Engineers Biological Weapons Experiments... ONCE you have that Answer its a CASE of how many more Xenomorph movies can you keep going back to without having to CHANGE it a bit?

Unfortunately then YES this is FAR away from the Original Conception of a Starbeast, it also maybe upsets the ALIENS fans who would rather see it as some Native Hive Organism the Space Jockey had attempted to USE just as the W-Y company would do so Thousands of Years latter.

So its NOT really what MOST people would have Concluded the First Time they saw ALIEN (assuming this was the First Movie they had seen).

Back to ALIEN you could conclude one of the Following via the Shared Aesthetic of the Ship, Pilot and Cargo.

1) The Xenomorph was a Engineered Weapon for use by the Space Jockey as Biological Warfare.  The Technology of the Ship was created by the Space Jockey.

2) The Xenomorph was a Organism the Space Jockey had encountered and their Technology was Engineered from this Organism.  They also USED the Eggs as Biological Warfare.

3) The Xenomorph and Space Jockey Technology are Engineered from some other Species/Organism they had encountered.

4) The Space Jockey is merely a Enslaved Being or Created Being that is Tasked with the Purpose to Seed the Xenomorph's across the Galaxy, the Technology is Created by the Xenomorphs themselves.

The Route that RS had decided on (for a WHILE before the Prequels too) was Option 1... the Prequels began to Tease with a Small Part of Option 3 added.

The MAIN thing the Prequels added was a Background Plot for the Engineers, so that we do-not have some ALIEN Species who the Humans would HAVE no means to Communicate with, where you then have to look at WHERE this ALIEN Species (Space Jockey) was going with that WEAPON.

The Creators Plot and other Themes about Creation, Knowledge, Rebellion and Sub-Creation are other Aspects of the Engineers, and the Xenomorph was just a SMALLER Part of their Entire History..... and such a PLOT is something that you could EXPLORE and Expand on to give us a Expanded Franchise around the Engineers....  The Xenomorph being to them purely as Anthrax is to Mankind... a Engineered Weapon... No more... No less...

But such a PLOT is a Distraction from the Xenomorph, something that would Distance away from the MONSTER.  But they FELT this was a way to go off on a Different Tangent and by the time we get Prometheus to STEER AWAY from Alien....

Again Sadly this did-not sit well with some Fans...

Then FOX felt that Fans wanted to get Xenomorphs and well we ENDED UP with Alien Covenant.... say no more on that lol

@BlackAnt Can you copy-paste my name correctly at least?

I am calling, as Ridley Scott does, the exact monster from Alien 1979 as Xenomorph other things are not, but only byproducts of the black goo which seems to produce unstable reactions. What killed the Engineers was contamination with the black goo, just like in Covenant.

David does not perfect the Xenomorph, he plays with goo and creates a monster which in the end will become the Xenomorph. What's so hard to understand?

The mural represents neither a Xenomorph nor a Deacon (its head is way shorter and more pointy), but a result of using the goo that is why it is in the goo storage room.

I cannot see what is your problem. Everybody but you is stupid but you keep on rambling about retcons. Good for you that you figured everything out.

@ignornatGuy

OK we will spell this out so there can be no doubt that even you might not fail this time to understand it.

1. We have established that RS states David makes the Xeno in Alien Covenant.

2. We have established that in Prometheus a Pack of Xenos kill all the Engineers. How do Xeno's kill the engineers if David has not made them yet? No worries I will tell you how because RS likes to make movies with no plots when Fox studios destroys his work by cutting the budget....then you get movies with no real plots that is how!

Does this explain anything for you....look real close!

In the movie they are chest busted by Xenos coming out of them.

3. We have established that Prometheus happens before the movie Alien Covenant and yet David has not created the Xeno yet in the next movie but the Xeno is killing the engineers in Prometheus.

Then to complicate things further and throw off the audience even more from this type of RETCON there is this entire temple scene in Prometheus devoted to the Xeno/Deacon mural inside the temple. Get this Two humans have to go have sex on LV-223 and make a Trilobite giant face hugger. Then That Giant Trilobite face hugger has to attack and kill an Engineer so you can get a Deacon on the wall in the Engineer temple devoted to the Deacon. So I guess the Engineers would create humans then get a trilobite so they could get a deacon to kill worlds....even though it was Ridley Scott's original idea that the eggs we see in Alien in the cargo hold of the juggernaut are the bio-mechanical weapon that space jockeys-engineers use to attack other plants with and conquer them. Some how you are able to ignore all these plot holes. Not even you can be this thick brother....why would David perfect the bio-mechanical weapon we see in Alien for the Engineers/space jockeys??? RETCON! That is how you get a franchise this messed up....you got that - David goes to planet 4 to wipe out all the engineers but makes the Xeno eggs we see in Alien to help the space jockeys/engineers - RETCON! The studio Executives at Fox and Disney Know about this....you seem to be late to the game. RS makes these movies and cashes the checks but please do not warship them...there are parts of them that are good; however, they have no real plot continuity between any of them and never did....RETCON all of it. 

4. Then we have David perfecting the Xeno putting these embryos into storage at the end of Alien Covenant, so we can lead up to the scene in Alien where the eggs will be from how David perfects his Xenomorph Queen so they can be laid there by a Xenomorph Queen in the Juggernaut we see in the first Alien.

5. This is the one that everyone is wondering about....David cannot keep secrets from Weyland corporation back on earth correct, "Bring me the tea David bring me the tea." Everything that happens before Alien, the prequel movie we see called Prometheus is detailed and transmitted back to Weyland corporation on Earth....so if they know everything about LV-223 AND THEY DO!!!! Then why send a bunch of space minors to investigate and recover and explore what is on LV-426????? Oh it gets even better!!! Weyland corporation then builds a terra-forming colony on LV-426 even though they know everything that happens on LV-223 in Prometheus because David is recording and transmitting the entire time. Then they know everything Walter sees and records on planet 4 - RETCON!!! all of it....these are independent films that have nothing to do with each other. The deacon? is a decoy for people like you that do not understand how movie plots work.

@BlackAnt what you linked proves nothing as Weaver does not even mention Prometheus once, so why did you not link that particular audio? As I said that written paragraph does not state that Prometheus complicated thing, but AVP, read it again and not remove the context to fit your narrative.

The RS video clearly states that David made the Alien which I always thought and said was the case.

I don't understand what you want exactly but how things are now RS should be let finish his story (even as compromised they are now). 

@ignorantGuy

Now you are really being ignorant are you not....you read a direct quote that she stated...there is audio of the recorded interview.

More to the point about the real problem with these films is that they are RETCON....they are stand alone productions....they have some things to do with the other films but in large part deviate just enough so the audience can only come to one conclusion WHY?

Watch this interview with RS and you will understand David made the Alien - here is your homework.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo30bZc10D0

Back to continuity....but how did David make the Alien if a pack of them kills all the Engineers on LV-223 the movie before Alien Covenant....you do know what the word continuity means? Do you know what you are even talking about? Have you watched all these films....What you are writing makes no sense either....that is a direct quote form Weaver! not paraphrasing what she may or may not have said. 

Now please if you can prove otherwise that these movies are not RETCON by all means do so...but you know you cannot....watch these interviews, as will everyone else. So it just makes you look and sound very ingenuine and like you don't know what you are talking about and it is obvious you don't.

Please do not tell any more lies. WEAVER HATED THE AVP FILMS AND SO DID RS because those films are RETCON TOO THAT DESTROYED THE FRANCHISE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvElf-OEhbc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTpl7tdvz24

I heard that if you do not open your mouth then people might not know exactly how stupid you really are....just some advice. Not saying you are stupid ok...let everyone read what you wrote and decide.

And by the way ignorantGuy don't for a single second try and take what I said out of context. I never said Weaver hates RS. What I said is she said in a direct quote Prometheus complicated the entire franchise even more. That does not mean in any way She hates RS....she is making an obvious statement about what Fox did to RS.....so RS got back at Fox. 

@BlackAnt Stop pushing the false idea that Weaver ever talked ill about Prometheus or Ridley Scott. She said: "I’m glad it’s Ridley doing it, and I’ll be as curious as anyone, or maybe more curious, to see it. I think he took my suggestion. Fox wanted to go to earth and I said: ‘That’s so boring. Who wants to see aliens on earth?’ I said ‘go back to the planet’".

What you said "I think it caused more problems than it was worth" it was a really bad phrasing from the writer from the Hollywood Reporter. The full paragraph is "Weaver also said that AVP put an end to any hopes of Scott making a further Alien sequel, with the director dropping out altogether. Scott would go on to direct the Alien prequel Prometheus in 2012. “I think it caused more problems than it was worth,” Weaver said." Which is pretty clear that says that AVP caused problems for his friend Ridley to return, and nothing about how bad or not Prometheus was.

Even this year Weaver seemed to respect Ridley, when she refused to be in the backstabbers Hill and Giler's project 

In order to make any film involving the entire Alien Universe we have to RETCON the entire franchise....Here are some clues.

Ridley Scott only returned to the world he created in 1979 with Prometheus, the 2012 Alien movie prequel. "I think it caused more problems than it was worth," Weaver added.

Facts are facts and cannot be ignored or we will not be making anything at all even subjectively.

When she was asked at London Film and Comic-Con that took place over the weekend if it was her decision to have Ripley killed off in Alien 3, Weaver said: "Well, yes – because I heard that Fox was gonna do Alien vs. Predator. Which really depressed me because I was very proud of the movies."

"I’ve nothing against building a movie on a videogame, but at the time it was, as [Aliens director] Jim Cameron said, I think publicly, 'Why would you want to do that?'" Weaver recalled. "It’s like making Alien meets the Wolfman."

Think real hard about the continuity between Prometheus and Alien Covenant then to Alien, through the prequels and you all will understand the contradiction of continuity is so obvious NONE OF IT CAN MAKE ANY SENSE....you want it to but you know it's all impossible. People argued on here for several years did David make the Xeno or did he not well watch the movie a few more hundred times and see if you think that laboratory he is in where he dissects Dr. Shaw is real or not....ohhhh wait they have a temple scene in Prometheus with Xenos on the ceiling YEP makes no sense all of it.....what about the the Xeno eggs David puts into storage at the end of Alien Covenant....that he will perfect and make the eggs with for what you see in Alien.

These films are all RETCON! even between Prometheus, then Alien Covenant, Alien ??? presumably, and then Alien....all of it RETCON!

RETCON:

Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic 'facts' in the plot of a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former.

That means these films were RETON specifically by RS to be elaborate WHAT? 

I can now only enjoy parts of these films as small vignettes just like when Fox dealt the last blow to Ridley Scott's budget on Prometheus. 

Look if I am incorrect here and I do not believe I am then by all means we can all go an watch another film in this franchise, if it will ever be made which I doubt seriously, and just know we are watching stand alone film that is also RETCON and has nothing to do with any of the other films what so ever.

And with that sure I willing to try and build upon other Alien franchise other premises but do to the level of how much all the other films were RETCON, all of them....it is impossible to make a film unless it is just a stand alone film.

Look you can paint another picture of any very famous painting and in doing so you copy the painting.....should you take the liberty to change small aspects of the painting you now you are being a provocateur of the legacy of all that artists work...the more you deviate from the actual work in your copy the more you intentionally insult the actual artists original intention.

Prometheus has elements which deviate so far from Alien that Prometheus is effectively RETCON.

"In fact, Ridley Scott was about to direct a third one, until this was announced, and he dropped out," she said, "because he also wanted to do an Alien sequel."

RS dropped out because they were going to introduce AVP and RETCON all his work and everyone he worked with and that is the real truth.

The warning lights on the Sulaco’s navigation console suddenly lit green. MUTHER had regained control of the Sualco.

Ripley “Thanks mother..I’ll handle this part...”

She could hear the xenomorph mulititude, scratching and pounding, attempting to gain access to the bridge. 

MUTHUR warned Ripley there were hull breeches. The aliens were swarming the sulaco’s outer hull. They were seeking her.

Facing the Sulaco at the red planet , she ignited the fusion engines, setting the course to three miles beneath the Mars Colony Red terminal…..She went FTL….

From the surface, Hicks watched a streak of plasma strike the Mars base. He knew what it was.

Hicks “God…”

Mars wouldn’t let the Sulavo go any deeper. At two miles under the surface, the black matter bomb aboard the Sulaco detonated.

Hicks”...Damn…”

For an instant, Mars gave birth to a second Sun. 20 billion metric tons of Mars leaped skyward.

Jepson shielded Him, her synthetic body deflecting most of the lethal gamma rays. A mile high wave of sand was headed towards them….

Rebecca could wait no longer. Ripley had done it! Not hesitating, she turned the USM Phoenix and headed away from Mars. Her target, the directorate ship, was eighty million kilometers ahead and climbing. The bastards were headed to Acheron!  Rebbeca had something special for them, but she needed to be within eighty thousand kilometers …….She made the jump to FTL.

"Removing the Xenomorphs need for a Host would mean that they would NOT need to Attack for Procreation.   And so the Pheromone Idea is Interesting.. "

Thanks BigDave!

Yeah I think it would be cool for the military/killer to  carry around these nutrient sacks hosting xenomorphs. They hide them in vents/closets/refrigerators/etc...Then trigger the life cycle remotely! 

I could imagine a killer doping the water supply to a building apartment/workplace/etc... and the xenomoph killing everyone and the police wouldn't know your intended victim......or a terrorist/spy wiping out a building and walking in a taking what they want.

Frieza: What do you think of my third form?

Picolo: I think Ridley Scott is going to sue somebody

"Weaver then says the two films were rammed up Fox studio's tail pipe! Where have you all been...she even admits that he messed up Fox's Franchise on purpose"

I have not came across anything to Suggest that, but i am open to READ anything about it.

What i know about RS is that he was always wanting to go back to WHY would the Space Jockey have those Eggs.  And also to look at the ALIEN and what it would WANT to add more to it than maybe what became of ALIENS which was Basically Space Termites.

I know he had some ideas of what he wanted to do, i know that Cameron seemed to not be as Interested in a Return at this Time (1991) but it seemed he would have Carried on more with the Ripley, Hicks and Newt Family Aspect.

The Miss Weaver Interview is from 2015 and yeah it shows her Disappointment with how FOX wanted to do a Cross-Over, and Ridley Scotts thoughts on that are also Well Documented.

I get the Impression that RS was looking to Elevate the Xenomorph to bring more to it than being a Space Ant if you would.  Its likely any Alien Movie he would have made after ALIENS would have gone to WHERE those Eggs came from and WHY they was on that Ship.  Rather than go back to LV-426.

so i think his Vision was to look into the Relationship between the Xenomorph and Space Jockey, and i dont think he would have STUCK to the Space Termite/Ant like Xenomorph, not saying he would have SCRAPED that idea i just think he would have wanted to ELEVATE more to the Xenomorph as far as a AGENDA to them.

But it seems he FELT that the Studio had other Plans and with ONE of them to be Exploring the AVP Spin Off, i think RS could see if we go the SPACE BUGS and Predator vs Space Bug then the Reputation of the Xenomorph as such would STICK and there would be Little Point trying to Elevate the Beast.

When we get to the Prequels it seems the ideas they had would have given us more like a ALIENS type Flick.. And Jon Spaights then pitched the PLOT that would introduce our Engineers as the Space Jockey.

At this point it seems RS liked the idea, and that it was a case of that ONCE you have shown HOW the Xenomorph came to be and WHO was behind its Creation then their really is NOT much left to do..

But to Explore the Space Jockey has more Potential as far as Franchise Expansion...  

Of course if they had REVEALED the Xenomorph was more than a Space Bug, or Engineered Weapon if they tried to Elevate to it what the STARBEAST was, then you would have to look at WHAT is the Purpose of the Space Jockey?

They could have gone for a Enslaved Species, a Engineered Species by the STARBEAST... a Species that maybe has some kind of Covenant/Symbiotic relationship with each other..... but they decided on that the Xenomorph was either a Engineered Killing Machine, or a Consequence/Mutation of other Biological Warfare the Engineers had been Creating.

The Xenomorph thus Relegated to being as such, Partially due to maybe HOW the Beast had been Milked and Represented in all Media Forms... and so seen as something you cant really UPLIFT past being Space Bugs or a Engineered Weapon.

So it was to LOOK at WHO would Create such a Thing and to look at the Space Jockey Race as a avenue to give us something NEW that would STEER away from the ALIEN.

So to me it seems that he FELT there was NOT so much you could do with the Xenomorph and ONCE you reveal it to be a Engineered Experiment to KILL then its where do you go NEXT as far as to ANCHOR the Movies around such a Weapon.

I dont see any Sabotage.... more a case of there is something MORE you can do rather than Revolve around a Beast that Got Cooked!

The STUDIO has a lot of say too....

However when we get to ALIEN COVENANT is there a Element of RS giving us the David Created it to DOWNGRADE the Xenomorph more... MAYBE.

I get the Impression that the Direction of Alien Covenant was NOT what RS had in mind and his Interest in the Xenomorph had passed.... so as he said "they want £!"£%$  Aliens i will give them £"!$"£% Aliens" so in part the David is the Creator could be a Deliberate F-U by RS.

"You all will most likely hate this but I always thought it would have been much better to mix Blade Runner with the Alien franchise....Yep you heard that right!"

On the Contrary ;)

I think its these Themes that RS was more interested in, and what is Plans would have Concentrated more on...

And such Themes are what REALLY interests me in the Prequels...  Elements like WHO are the Autons that really Interest me from Alien R ;)

So sad.. He was a phenomenal actor, will be greatly missed. RIP :(