Comments (Page 167)

Covenant is a smoother and more consistent film than Prometheus. It just works better, like a story.

But Prometheus has more inspiration and original ideas. It is a wonderful soil to begin to create.

And guess what?!

Alien: Engineers had both components! It was a smooth, consistent story with tons of new ideas and amazing inspiration from new discoveries.

his miss winter . . . .any more news on your aliensverse books? . . . .way too long :)

"After going through it from recollection, it seems that Weyland/Yutani  is involved in every movie and maybe its sinister agenda might be a fresh way to go." - not quite true as by Resurrection it was bought up by Walmart. And there was no agenda in Alien Covenant. But I wonder if Walmart would sell Xeno-Cola (we already have made food additives from the beaver's anal gland), i think it would be very fizzy.

But I doubt that putting that to the forefront will be very successful. 

BigDave at first I would have thought that this post would talk about RS' new movie with Lady Gaga :P

Honestly I don't think that we could say anything about the enginner tech. Were they on a decline in the last 2000 years? Who knows.

But I'm pretty sure that the Teardrop shaped ships were long abandoned by the 22nd century, and any evidence of their existence lost in time (like tears in the rain ...)

the scorpion ship was a true ship or just a floating structure? Can you see from just the movie. But these will not even be mentioned.

Thanks, Jay, for being part of one of the best sci fi series out there. You are forever canon to the Alienverse. R.I.P.

I certainly think thats something to Consider.

However it could also not be a Indication of a GOD, Murals are sometimes made to Depict certain Acts, Accomplishments as well as Figures or Importance.

There was a lot of Speculation about the Mural, especially since the Space Jesus was kind of indicated by RS, which lead to Speculation that the Cruciform Pose of the Mural must indicate this is a GODLIKE Figure.

Bare with me a bit ;)

The Cruciform Pose of Christ is such that it represents NOT the LORD but the Savior, in that through his Sacrifice on the Cross that Mankind has Redemption, a Chance to be Saved.  The Greatest Deed of Gods Will was the Sacrifice of Christ.

So a Cruciform Pose mainly would Symbolize Sacrifice which is something the Engineers are Very Into and it HOLDS a great Importance.

When we look at LV-223 we know that Clues to this Place have been left on Earth for at least 35'000 Years, this does-not mean that for 35'000 Years that Mural had been there and for 33'000 Years they had Experimented on stuff related to the Mural before decided to UNLEASH it and then things WENT to POT.

So maybe at some point some Engineers or the Entire Civilization had began to Experiment with Horrors that related to the Black Goo and the Mural, the Cruciform Pose could be they Created something to Worship, but then through Many Cultures that Depict Gods they are not really depicted in Cruciform Pose for the Most Part.

My Interpretation is they Encountered something that they Sacrificed, or they had Created Something they then Sacrificed, and Regardless of Which... this is depicted in the Mural of being of GREAT Benefit to those Engineers.

Was it only a Faction of Engineers who undertook such Experiments?  Would this be why they could in part be Considered the Fallen Angels as Ridley Scott had indicated.

Or was their Entire Hierarchy in on this Agenda and so the ENTIRE or Most of the Engineers Society are Evil/Fallen?

I think that David could give us some Clues.. as far as Repeating of History....  i would NOT have been Surprised if Alien Covenant had shown a MURAL of Dr Shaw in Cruciform Pose to Symbolize her Sacrifice had allowed for his Masterpiece...

Sorry if this is a Little Off Topic

I think trying to TIE things together is something that has Many ways they could be Explored.  Do we look at Lucifer and Paradise Lost in more Detail, do we look at Prometheus?  I would say we can look at Everything but maybe NOT try and look too Literal at any ONE thing. But certainly TRY and see how we could Connect them.

I think the Watchers and Book of Enoch could be something else to Consider too.  I think we could look at Samyaza, it would depend on how Literally we try and Connect it.   Would we consider that some Engineers had a LUST for Human Females if so WHY?

Planet 4 Engineers have Females, so WHY go after Humans, unless the Daughters of Man are more Attractive to them, or the Engineers are SET in Ritual Ways where Procreation and Sex is something that there Culture has Forbidden, as far as the LUST and Pleasures of SEX?

Has the Basis of the Engineers PLOT changed from Inception? as prior to Prometheus it was that these Engineers had Engineered Themselves Sterile...... was the Creation of Mankind to Obtain Females to allow they to Procreate, but this was ONLY as far as to obtain the Seed/Egg to then Procreate in a LAB and thus SEX is Shunned?

We dont know for sure as it could be the Engineers on Planet 4 and the Females would predate Mankind, if so maybe Interbreeding with Humans is Forbidden?

Another aspect of Semyaza if i can remember right was the Rebellion against the Rules/Ways of GOD and a Attempt to Create their Own Rules/Rituals and Religion.

In Context to the Franchise, then any Engineers who would attempt to Create/Teach Ways and Rituals that are Against or Do-Not Follow the Ways/Rituals of the Founders would be Consider a Fall.

There are so Many ways these things could FIT, was Mankind Created for a Simple Purpose to be as Cavemen.. and so the Engineers who Visited us and Taught us stuff, was these Engineers Teaching Forbidden Stuff or trying to MOLD us to Worship them as GODS... which is NOT the intention the Hierarchy/Founders of the Engineers may have had Planned, in which case such a Action would be Fallen.

This is the BEAUTY of the Plot and HOW it connects to Various Cultures, Religions and what we are shown, as its BOLD and is VERY open to how you Explore/Connect these things, but this also becomes the Poisoned Chalice of the PLOT.... HOW do you Connect it all?  (reason WHY i Abandoned doing Stories that Continued after Prometheus). I could not find a Complete Answer.

If the Engineers on LV-223 are "exotic dark angels" analogous to the Book of Enoch's Sons of God/ Watchers, why are they shown to be somewhat worshipping the protomorph in the ampule room?  That is, if they are akin to the angels who did not keep their first estate, why are they found worshipping this creature instead of a leader angel akin to Lucifer or Semyaza? Or with this being an existential universe, is it that they rebelled against their original creator/ master, placing their faith in dark science, instead of waiting for a messiah, they engineered one, a Lovecraftian god, the protomorph equivalent to the blind idiot god (the proto- xenomorphs unable to see), Azathoth, and they become its pipers, creating a chaotic, uncaring, universe, opposite to their creator's intent?

Absolutely Maxeno (Welcome Aboard)

This appeared to be the Intention as of 2010, but as i have discussed before a number of Times in the Past, then Notion of Human looking beings in a Space Suit is maybe NOT something just Pulled Out of the air by Jon Spaights.

As this seemed to  be the Indication in HR Gigers Concepts from 1977-1978.

I know such Revelations had not settled with some Fans, which is why in this Topic i offer them a chance to Voice how they Feel but mainly to look at WHAT kind of Alternative they would like to see.

NOT that its likely they would get what they want though ;)

I think its open for them to Introduce something else... Be that...

*Another Humanoid like the Engineers/Humans but Taller.

*A Bi-pedal Humanoid that is FAR from Human Looking.

*A Bio-Mechanical Being/Entity.

But certainly prior to Alien Covenant the Intention was to show that the Space Jockey was a Engineer or Related.  With the release of Alien Covenant then the Space Jockey as a Engineer is something that could CHANGE.

I suspect that IF that Changes However, then it would likely be some other Species that David Creates... or David in some Engineered New Body he has Created. Thats the suspicion i have if things had Continued... i think that it would have been like 40% Chance of something like that, with a 40% it would be a Engineer leaving 20% Chance of it being some other Race Connected to the Engineers.

Unfortunately unless its Created by David, then i cant see the Space Jockey being revealed as something that is either FAR from Human or a Bio-Mechanical being.

With Disney in Charge, i think they may even SKIP the Space Jockey, and move away from the Prequels... or in TIME they may give something that maybe they FEEL the Fans would want.

R.I.P another Life Taken Early due to this Affliction to Humanity, may he Rest in Peace and may this Outbreak soon come to a End.

I hope everyone Stays Safe and Stay Strong

Dave

I think it's clear it is an that the SJ was/is an engineer.  The orginal Prometheus story had an engineer.  Before Damon got a hold of it.

It's possible that the neomorph can rapidly secrete a highly acidic form of 'saliva'. As BigDave mentions, David's wrist looks melted. You can clearly see a burn mark on his sleeve.

There was a lot of potential with the creature. I liked actually that it stood up in front of david and was mesmerized by him somehow. David not being a lifeform somehow causes it to see no threat or reason to attack it McDVOICE

This is a Interesting take by Artist Christian Urdapilleta

This is also Interesting by Mark Williams as far as Imagine that with a Snorkel/Mask, but its a little to GREY ALIEN looking though.  I think Different Eyes and Position then something like that could maybe Work?

I think the BEST revelation would have been a Bio-Mechanical Entity/Being like in that Last Image, which is what our Xenomorph is.

Well it kind of  Looked that way, as Walters Hand did look like it had Melted a Bit, but then its a Case of HOW did David replicate that (but the Crew maybe would not have paid a Great lot of Attention to his Wound).

However during the Shooting of the Neomorph by Oram we NEVER really saw any Evidence of Acid Blood.  Which is a bit ODD as the Hammerpedes had Acid Blood, and it was likely the Trilobite did too (as the Full Scene it would appear the Engineer obtained his Acid Burn from Biting the Trilobite but we DONT have that Full Shoot not even on Extras).

As David and Dr Shaw had taken the Juggernaught from another Complex, maybe this Complex has a Different Kind of Black Goo that does-not pass on the Acid Blood, but David was able to add this to his Final Specimen?

Looking at the ACID BLOOD and in reply to Nathan, then maybe the Chemical that is the Blood would React with the Air and so WHILE the Blood is inside the Organism it does-not have the Acid Properties but it does so ONCE the Blood leaves the Body?

But it is more Likely the Genetic Structure of the Xenomorph is NOT affected by the Acid.

im sure the neomorph does have acid for blood as we saw with walter shoving his hand inside the mouth of the neomorph that attacked him and his hand melted didnt it?

i might be wrong its been a while since i watched it.

When i First Saw the Space Jockey a few times it was LONG AGO in a Time prior to DVD and the Internet and indeed at this Time it came across like a Skeleton, but i was Young and we never had the Benefit of Larger/Clearer TV's.

It was only in the 90's that i came across a Magazine from a Friend with Close Ups and i am sure RS had said it was a Space Suit in the Magazine, when i looked at the Space Jockey Arms and Head (apart from the Face) it did look ODD for a Skeleton, this Magazine also had the HR Giger Concept which when i looked at that then it did-not look a Skeleton to me.

Once the DVD came out and i had Watched it on DVD about Year 2000, then i could PAUSE it and then the only Part that looked like a Skeleton to me was the Face, and Ribs to a Degree.   But at this time what i assumed the Space Jockey was is a BIO-MECHANICAL being like the Xenomorph was, like SIL from Species was etc.  So to me the Rib-cage was more like the Xenomorphs in that what we had was more of a Exo-Skeleton.

It was a FEW years latter via the Internet i came across and could STUDY in depth more work by HR Giger which included his Face Hugger Concepts and the Mural for ALIEN and then indeed i could see it could be a Space Suit but i felt it was VERY ODD that the Occupants were Humanoid.

So for me then YES i think the BEST way to Reveal it would be either some SPACE SUIT where the Occupant is NOT so Human, or even as i showed in my Posts where the SUIT has no HELMET but the Skull of a ALIEN being with some Breathing/Snorkel thats attached to the Face.

Or that it is some Bio-Mechanical Entity like the Xenomorph is and various HR Giger Work.

I think we may have to accept its a Engineer though, and i dont think so much Complaints would be made if the Engineers where 10-12ft Tall on Screen and the SUIT looked more like this ONE.

Maybe trying to make it look a bit more like HR Gigers Concept from the BANNER and Proportions as below.

You could put on a nice black suit and a fedora or a bowler hat, and speak in a monotone voice and ask people about aliens and UFOs, so you resemble a man in black. They resemble Engineers.

When I first watched Alien I got the notion that the Space Jockey was a species itself but after watching Prometheus I really didn't have a problem with it just being a space suit for the pilot.

For me the idea that its some sort of biomechanical suit that you get into to pilot a ship is just as interesting as it being a completely different alien race from the Engineers. I really don't mind it at all.

It could just be that the Derelict in Alien belonged to a different sect or race of engineers (think Romulan and Vulcan) who like engineering themselves further than what they are.

Then again, its quite possible that the Space Jockey in Alien could be David who liked messing about with the black goo and did something to himself and then build a ship that was big enough for himself.

What impressed me about the original Alien was that the alien was GENUINELY alien. Acid for blood, very rapid growth, etc. Giger seems particularly interested in bubble forms (rounded, as if pressurised from within) so for me, the problem of rapid growth is easily explained by the alien being mostly exoskeleton: I imagine a very low density fibrous structure inside. Did you ever see the movie Shin Godzilla? Could that be a very similar concept: not just a large lizard, but a radically different concept of life? In the case of Shin Godzilla the body seemed to be held together and moved by atomic energy – that is the force that not only stopped the being from collapsing under its weight, but could even burst out from the body, and rapidly reconfigure the physical shape. I was particularly interested in the very end where the humanoid creatures began to break from the tail, suggesting that the whole body was made from a web of fibres, filled with plasma and space, rather than solid bone or muscle. In Prometheus, the black goo worked so quickly that I wonder if something similar was going on. That is, is the life force best thought of as fibre and energy rather than solid blocks? It might use a host body, but only as a parasite uses a superstructure: once it has sufficient materials it becomes a shell with low density fibrous inside. Now low density does not have to mean weak or soft: it might be like drums of steel mesh inside: a drum of steel mesh is extremely strong even though most of it is air. Or it could be aerogel – filling the space with no gaps yet being almost as light as air.

Whatever the biology, if the blood is molecular acid then the body must be fundamentally different from the usual human form. Maybe the acid is only created by injuries – that is, two substances are kept apart, but if the skin is cut they mix and create the acid. Or maybe the body makes use of the acid through some very unusual reactions. Either way, a low density body seems possible. As far as I know the aliens require a host in order to grow, which suggests that the final form may be extremely unusual: otherwise, why not just grow on its own using regular food? But my guess is that creating the final alien form requires all the complexity of a regular body to feed it, much in the same way that an electronic brain requires a biological brain to create it, but once created it can link an entire planet and do things that a biological brain cannot even imagine.

Just thinking aloud!

The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

Personally, I liked the idea of it being a fossilized creature that was also part of the chair. I think Dallas thought it was a fossil and that's where my imagination went. 

I would have just liked to see it as a fleshed out version of what Dallas found- basically like BD's pics with a trunk of some kind. 

No matter what anyone thinks, it also leads to the inevitable mystery of the chest burster, its burning into the floor etc...

  If drawing the required mass so rapidly from inside their host, Kane should have been feeling pain a lot earlier and an autopsy on Ledward should have shown more internal mass missing too.

would probably releases a form of pain killer while gestating before its born

I think both of these are good points. And lets not forget a couple other things. Kane, having been feeding a rapidly growing parasite should have looked even weaker than he appeared and should have had difficulty breathing far earlier from having his lung capacity diminished so much. 

Interestingly, as the buster grew, the host should have had more trouble supplying oxygenated blood as the creature grew because of its own growth. By the time it was ready to burst, Kane's entire cardiovascular system should have cut off all blood/oxygen to the brain and he should have just collapsed instead of thrashing around. Oh well- still gotta love that iconic scene!

When looking at what the Space Jockey would be if it was a Skeleton, well a Mummy of a Organism, then the Concepts (by Daryl Joyce) above as in 1/2 are Pretty Accurate and i would say that IF we looked at the Snorkel as being a Apparatus and so if we removed this from those Concepts then i think what those Designs by Daryl Joyce show is something that i could imagine a Space Jockey to look like if we assume the Head was a SKULL and not Helmet.

If we IGNORE the Snorkel/Hose then they do look a bit like some of the Fifield Concepts.  Particularly if we COMBINE the 5+6 Concepts then we get close, add some Trunk/Snorkel to a Combination of those TWO and i think you would NOT be too FAR off what Daryl Joyce had done.

So i like his Concepts/Fan Art, i think they could work if this kind of Design lacked the TRUNK and it was inside a Space Suit with a Mask/Trunk that attached the Suit to the Face of this Organism. Especially Image 1

I would add the Neomorph seems Superior to me as far as Procreation, if you could Genetically Engineer a Neomorph to gain some more Traits that would make it Tougher and Stronger i would see the Xenomorph as Inferior.

We dont see the Neomorph as having Acid Blood which is a Advantage for the Xenomorph.

Which i Forgot... i think its likely the Xenomorph when ready to Chest Burst may release some Acid to Weaken the Chest Wall to make for a Easier Chest Bursting.

Well they are Totally Alien and Made Up Organisms/Parasites so some Science goes out the Window.

I am not sure if there is any Material that Details the Chest Buster and its Process, i have not read the Weyland Yutani Report so i am not sure how much information is given in that Book.

The Chest Buster Embryo is something that gets Changed a bit in some Movies, such as Gestation Time etc, in ALIEN the X-ray seemed to show a Black Mass and not really any Embryo but this was at a Earlier Stage.  This kind of Fits in with Alien Covenant and the Neomorph Infection (Mass/Cloud of Tiny Parasites that then go on to Create the Embryo that Grows).

But from ALIENS on wards it seemed to be the Status Quo that some kind of Embryo was Implanted.  

The Franchise would seem to show that the Face Hugger would implant something, be it Embryo or a Tiny Parasites/Pathogen that would Form to a Embryo, the Face Hugger seemed to keep the Host Alive by Acting as some kind of External Lungs.

As the SEED if you would Gestates, we assume it is Obtaining some DNA from somewhere which it Encodes into its Genetic Make Up to take Traits from the Organism, but it also would have to take some Nutrients from the Host. It is likely the Embryo gains Nutrients from the Lining of the Lungs like a Normal Embryo would from the Endometrium of a Uterus, before at a Certain Stage (after the Face Hugger disconnects its Breathing Apparatus from Supplying the Bronchus) it can maybe Connect to the Blood Supply that goes to the Heart

I think it likely releases some Immune Suppressant too so that the Body does not Reject or Attack the developing Embryo as well as Enzymes or similar that effect the Nervous System so the Host can-not feel anything Growing inside.

Alien Covenant confuses things because of HOW QUICK the Gestation seemed and also with Lopes infection the Face Hugger was not required to be Attached in order to have any EFFECT on the Embryo.

The Neomorph seemed a WHOLE different Kettle of Fish we can only Speculate that the Nano Parasites either only Needed ONE to connect to a Blood/Nutrient Supply in a Host and Grow (Cell Multiply) from this (or inject its Payload that begins the Cell Production/Multiplication) or if the Parasites would Clump together and Join like Cell Multiplication. 

Again the Parasite being able to Take Nutrients to Grow and DNA at a Super Accelerated Pace.

Ha Ha Welcome aboard and maybe thats a Good Idea ;)

I would kinda be a Double if this was a Engineer ;)

Obviously this Engineer has Stolen the Green Crystal off the ALTAR and that Trilobite is trying to get it back ;)

from my understanding the chestburster feeds on its hosts blood supply and would probably releases a form of pain killer while gestating before its born

I think we Cant really be taking things too Literally, but this is the Problem Caused by going for the Chariots of the Gods type of Plot.  I would assume the Plot was NOT trying to put too much Emphasis on any Particular Mythos or Religion and so we have to Try and look at any Common Themes within them.  However some could look at the 2000 Years ago Date, and Various Christian Elements within Prometheus and Conclude that Christ had to be a Important Factor.

When looking at the Pharaoh Heads they are Elongated and some of the Concept Work for the Engineers had more Elongated Heads so you could wonder was there some Engineers/Visitors with Elongated Heads?

The Prometheus Engineers had a Slight Elongation but they was more of a Protrusion than Elongation.  Maybe some Engineers are Different and have Elongated Heads?

Or maybe they just wore Head Accessories and the like that gave the Impression they had Elongated Heads, and so Ancient Mankind then assumed without such Head-wear they would have a Elongated Skull?

Also a lot of Ancient Depictions and Art do tend to Exaggerate things so for instance a 8ft Person could be Drawn or Depicted as being FAR larger than 8ft.  some Ancient Cultures also Depict persons in Power, Royalty or would be Gods as being TALLER than a Normal Person as a way to Indicate their Higher Status.

I think when looking at our Engineers it could be that they would COME and GO at Certain Intervals and so they may come and STAY and Teach us Certain Things for a Number of Years and then they would Leave and Return Hundreds of Years Latter.

It could be that at ONE point when they was away for a Few Hundred Years they came back and saw that SOME cultures had Started to Develop their own Rules, Rituals etc that the Engineers saw as Concerning and the Roman Empire indeed could be ONE of those Civilizations.

The Egyptian Pharaohs could be Engineers or a Hybrid so sort of Demi-God/Engineers who are in Effect the Emissaries on the Engineers behalf who are Tasked to Maintain what the Engineers want from us and how we should be Governed etc.

If we accept this, and see how the Roman Empire had Influenced many Cultures with their Quest for Domination and Enforcing their Ways on the Various Civilizations they came into Contact with and Conquered, then INDEED you could bet the Engineers would NOT be Pleased ;)

 @BigDave: OMG, Ice Warrior and Otto Dix Invalid rolled into one;)

@BigDave: Is there something way bigger our ancestors might have done beyond the crucifixion of Christ that might have had the Engineers incensed enough to drop barrels of death and shit on us?  Given the shape of pharaoh heads being akin to the xenomorph, might it be the Roman conquest of Egypt? Or something else? 

Above is as Much as i have seen of the Master Narrative, if anyone has the Full Version or has a Better Idea what the Missing Words are then feel free to post ;)

I will add the Problem with Humanity would seem to be something that they became Concerned with and Decided they Needed to Create something to DESTROY us with.

I think we should not just look at this as purely being that we KILLED a Space Jesus though ;)

Creation, Sub-Creation, allowing or Creating something to become Sentient, and Procreate can Potentially be a Problem when this Creation does-not view its Creators as Superior or see the Need to Worship and Follow the Rules set by their Creators.

These Themes apply to Multiple Layers, and i think The Problem of Humanity is one of those Layers.

If we take WALTER is he a Concern?  Maybe NOT.. but if the Walter Models can become Sentient, have own Ambitions, Feelings/Emotions like David then that could be a Problem.... then what if the Androids could then Procreate (even if thats to MASS PRODUCE many in Factories).  This would become for us "The Problem of Synthetics" and so i think if we go the Level Back to Engineers/Humans then the The Problem of Synthetics for us is the same as The Problem of Humanity for the Engineers.

I think that may be one of the MILLION $$$$ Questions ;)

Alien 01: Master Narrative was the Pitch that Jon Spaights made that then Evolved to his Drafts, which include Alien Engineers and Alien Genesis, which then got Quite a Re-Write when Damian Lindeloff came aboard.

The Alien 01: Master Narrative i think could have Held Many Answers, Sadly i dont think its Available anywhere. We only had a Glimpse of some Pages from the Furious Gods Documentary.

I think we need to LOOK at what Little we got and apply it to what we saw in Prometheus. 

So in the Master Narrative these Engineers were likely Very similar to Mankind at some point, they had over MILLIONS of years at least, Evolved as far as Technology, Philosophy where some things became more Important to them than some Cultural/Society Norms.  These Engineers had Advanced Themselves Genetically and NOW they Live for Thousands of Years but they had also became Sterile.

Not Satisfied with this Level of Evolution, they likely Strive to be more, to become Immortal as they are Mortal After-all.  And so while they are Trying to Discover ways to Further Evolve themselves to some Higher State, they had Created Mankind.

They had Nurtured, Evolved our Species, Taught us Gradually many things, One Day in the Hope that ONCE the Engineers had Found their Godhead (Divinity) then Mankind could Inherit what they had Left behind and maybe ONE day when Worthy we could attain the same Status as them.

I would say that while Mankind Started to Learn Fast from our Creators, our Creators had Reached a Limit to how FAR they can Pursue becoming Gods/Divine as far as Attaining some kind of True Immortality.

While they Struggle to take to that Next Stage of Evolution, they maybe saw that Mankind was becoming Sentient, Realizing its their Creators Technology and Knowledge that ONLY makes them really GODS.

Once Mankind is able to Learn all of their Secrets then in Time we would Advance just like them.  (Imagine the Medical Advancements in Thousands of Years Time, would we be Confined to Living for 90-100 Years in say 5'000 Years Time?)  And so if a Species has these Secrets NOW and we Gain Them, then we could reach such Levels that would take us Thousands of Years within Hundreds.

So if the Engineers could No-Longer Procreate, and Mankind can in Great Numbers and we are becoming Sentient, and yet the Engineers have attained the Limits of Evolution, it is LIKELY they would FEAR that we would Eventually Overthrow them and Become the New Gods.

A King has his Reign....then he DIES.

And so in PART this is what the Problem of Humanity would be in Context to the Master Narrative, i would add However that this is only Interpretation and Speculation based on the Master Narrative Plot.

The Engineers Plot has likely Changed quite a bit in that Context, but i think my Reply does Apply quite  a lot to our Prequel Engineers.

@Thoughts_Dreams

Certainly the Occupant does-not have to be Human looking, i made this Image for a Topic on here Quite some time ago.

The Possibilities are kind of Endless to what a Alien Organism inside of a Space Suit could look like, i would like to think it best to USE something that we can make some Connection to the Xenomorph and Ancestry though, or Certainly some Unused Concepts from the Franchise or HR Gigers Work.

The Image i Posted in the OT was one of the Concepts for Fifield that has a similar Body Proportions to a Space Jockey (or so it appeared)  and aside from the Read or the Head which is a Bit Pointed, i think it would PASS as the Space Jockey, in the Image i also had the Cryo-Sleep Engineer, to show the Snorkel could be some Contraption that would Attach and FUSE with the Wearer and the Suit could be just as the Engineers  Cry-Sleep/Pressure Suits.

Like HR Gigers Necronom 7

We see some kind of Helmet/Mask that does-not Enclose the Entire Head, with Typical HR Giger style this Mask looks like its Attached/Fused with the Wearer.

So what i am saying is as with the OT is that maybe the Space Jockey Head is the Skeletal Remains of some Organism with a Elongated Head but the Snorkel is some Bio-Mechanical Apparatus that attaches to the Organisms Face and this Connects to the Suit that then Connects to the Chair.

The Occupant could be something thats NOT really the same as a Engineer or Human.

@hox

Certainly i think when we look back to when we First Saw the Space Jockey (for those who see ALIEN before the Prequels) it was Bizarre, so thinking that this PILOT was a Slave to the Ship, that he is Permanently a Prisoner of the Ship is something that some of Wonder before, and i think this is what James Cameron felt about the Space Jockey.

Trying to Imagine that this Pilot was Part of the Ship, that he was Enslaved or has some kind of Symbiotic Relationship is something that more Bizarre than a Bi-Pedal Organism/Entity that can come and go from the Chair at Will.

The Space Jockey had gone through some Evolution from Inception, starting off as being the Skeletal Remains of a Organism that is NOT very Human looking, who just Happened to Fall Victim to the ALIEN just as the Human Crew that Many Many years latter suffered the Same Fate.

This Dead Pilot having a Few Designs that were Nothing like a Human, Until RS had came across HR Gigers work and Necronom V

Ridley Scott liked the look of the Being that was like Riding on the Back of the Feminine Humanoid Figure (which inspired the Xenomorph in part).

The thing that RS did like was that it seemed this Being was Fused with what he saw as a Chair and he was SOLD on this idea for the Pilot and his Pilot Chair.  And so YES the idea of the Space Jockey being something that is FUSED to the Chair for Eternity is something that Originally seemed to be what they was going for.

This Necronom V was used as the idea for the Alien Pilot Species and it was drawn in some Ridleygrams.... but then they got HR Giger to come up with a Concept that was based on that and this is when we got the Space Jockey that we ENDED UP with.

HR Giger also doing some Concepts such as Face Huggers, and a Mural and these seem to depict Space Suits that had a somewhat Familiar Look to the Space Jockey, the Occupants were BALD Humanoids.. so this was something that HR Giger had drawn out, but from his Concepts you cant HELP but think these depicted some Species that were Enslaved to whoever had Created the Ship/Xenomorph.

I think before we got to Alien Covenant, then the Space Jockey was Ancient and so it could have been Explored as another Species, a Bio-mechanically Entity and indeed Certainly something that has become and has been at ONE with the Ship.... where we could then Speculate the Engineers had merely Reverse Engineered the Technology.

Alien Covenant makes it more difficult because it appears we must Accept (but its Subject to Change) that there is NO crashed Derelict or its Pilot as of the Time-Line that Alien Covenant had taken place...

This does not mean the Derelict cant be Introduced as a Incoming Ship, or that its Occupant is David, a Human or any kind of Engineer we have so far seen.

It could be a Space Suit with a not-so Human looking Occupant or a Totally Bio-Mechanical Construct, but i would assume they would be revealed to be Bi-Pedal and can Enter and Leave the Pilot Chair but they become as ONE while they are Connected.

Certainly would have been interesting in see how their WHOLE Society and Culture is RAN, and from these we could look at our History and what Differences we had and when.

When Chris Seagers compared the Hall of Heads to the Hierarchy, we have to assume these Statues represent like the Founders of the Ways of the Engineers, so they would have been the ones who had Set and Governed the Ways and Knowledge and so WHILE they may be gone, their Ways are likely Still Stored in that Cathedral on those Scrolls.  Much like how Abrahamic Religions would have their Books that keep the Ways of their Religion to be Taught and Passed on.

We can only Speculate on what those Hall of Heads guys looked like, as i would Assume they are LONG GONE, if they are NOT then surely they must be somewhat Divine or have Achieved some kind of Psychical Immortality which i doubt.

We cant really say if they are/were Vastly Taller, they could even be SMALLER than our Engineers.  It seems the Planet 4 Engineers would Vary quite a bit in Height, it appears they could be about 25% Taller than Humans and so maybe those Engineers can Range from 6-9ft

The LV-223/Prometheus Engineers had more of a Enigmatic look to them, they were like a Adonis Marble Statue of sorts, it could be that these Engineers are a Genetic Experiment/Upgrade and so they are more likely to be the Same as the Genetically Created Slaves in this Movie from 2016  called 2307: Winter's Dream/Solider 

"They are interesting but they could also introduce something that is farther away from humans"

I think that could work, as i had said by Adding another Layer to the Cake but we can only Imagine how FAR away from Humans these may look.  I am sure there are a Number of Plots you could use to Introduce some other Hierarchy above the Engineers.

Do they have to be a Organism?  What if the Higher Creators are Synthetic, well some kind of A.I but it could be that they was NOT always that way, but they Transcended themselves PAST the use of a Mortal Body... maybe they want Bodies Back?

This seems NOT too FAR from what Jon Spaights had as the Back Ground Plot when he pitched his Idea for a Prequel which had then gone through a Evolutionary Process until we arrived at Prometheus.

YEAH!!!!!

YEAH!!!!!

Ingeniero: I like that they used the Trilobite as a precursor to the facehugger. Compare it to how some birds have evolved from the dinosaurs. To me it looked like a more clumsy facehugger which is totally okay, I still wonder how it is able to move. Maybe they would have used something similar to it in another movie, I do not know but maybe they can be used in some comic book or something.

I am not sure about how this fits with the topic but it was about the hierarchy. I think that it would be interesting to see something about their society. Maybe they have something like priests, guards, doctors, and so on, each that has its purpose in their society.

If their society is hierarchical, then in some way those high up could also physically be taller to show strength so that could show that strength was something that the Engineers found important. Maybe this is a bit dumb but I just thought about that.

Sometimes practical effects work and sometimes they are needed. In this case I think that they should have been used because the Engineers should have looked more intimidating. Unfortunately what we got were some people that looked like humans with white face-paint which I think was a disappointment. They should have looked closer to the one in Prometheus simply because that looked better.

They are interesting but they could also introduce something that is farther away from humans because it could bring some needed mystery especially if they will go with the effed up idea that David created the monster. More Engineers would be nice and to see some about them but to have more mystery about them now that they have messed with the Xeno as a result of a bored robot.

That has been a mystery for so long so no matter what you do you will disappoint some people. How ever, something could be to have something that is above the Engineer sin the hierarchy to have as the Space Jockey, I am thinking about how disappointing the Planet 4 ones were and even if I found the one in Prometheus to be interesting what we saw in Alien Covenant made me wish that the SJ would be someone higher up in the hierarchy.

Maybe something more Alien than an Engineer could work. I am thinking about the Orchs in Lord of the Rings trilogy, not to say that you need to copy that but they look a bit human still different. The worst case scenario is to have David as the Space Jockey, or a human so if that is their plan then they should not make another prequel at all because the situation is bad enough as it is.

When we look at the SJ and compare it to the Engineers I think that there is a connection there. I think that having something above the Engineers could be a way to go if they will do another movie at all. Sorry but I do not think that that David should have anything to do with it at all, I am tired of that. You have had two movies where David has a big role and at least the second did not do too well so it would be foolish to have another movie that is about him, I am not interested in that but they could expand on the Engineers.

@BigDave,

I think that the HR Giger Aesthetic of Bio-Mechanical is what made ALIEN what it was, and i think we can only Hope the Space Jockey is such a Bio-Mechanical Entity but maybe we shall never find out. The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

My own feelings are that embracing an Engineer in a chair does a disservice to Giger. Many of his paintings depict “creatures” that are bonded with their environment. The Giger print hanging on my wall, for example, shows a woman (of sorts) mechanically bonded to scuba gear, her mouth invaded by an oxygen tube. Some of her constraints blend into her body.

To a degree, this is successfully observed in the suits worn by the Engineers themselves: they blend seamlessly into the Engineer’s skin. I’m fine with that - very Giger-esque. But where I have total disappointment is the notion that the original SJ was just an Engineer (or similar) that just hopped into the chair. Even my cat can tell that the SJ meshes into the chair, bonded to it. Constrained. Trapped. Consumed. An integral part of the terrifying and alien whole.

Some still would like to see it as a Skeleton of some being and while it may not look like a Traditional Skeleton, we are talking a ALIEN Species and so we CANT assume their Skeletal Structure would be the Same as Organism on Earth.

Dead right. Our skeletons help us to move around. The SJ may or may not have had the ability to move around, but he ends up being part of a machine. He doesn’t need to run around, and he’s just fused with it. However it happened, and whatever its ultimate purpose, it’s alien and weird so we don’t need to worry too much about the details.

But as the ALIEN Franchise was Very ALIEN and there appeared to be a Connection between the Bio-Mechanical Ship and the Xenomorph, then WHY cant the Pilot be Bio-Mechanical?

Why not indeed.

I guess the only Problem then would be to ASK how can a Bio-Mechanical being become Chest Busted?

That’s a good question because you first have to know what an alien biomechanical being actually is. Let’s say, for example, that the ship itself was constructed (or grown) organically. Yay, that’s what super-advanced aliens can do. Did the chair and SJ grow together? Was the SJ grown separately and ultimately fused with chair? Can he ever leave? Is he happy with his life? Is he “fed” by the ship in a similar same way that a facehugger feeds its victim? Whatever, its organic history could likely be its Achilles Heel, and I imagine it could be chest bursted quite easily. Adding a bit of horror, let’s just suggest for a moment that a regular facehugger could penetrate a host by sucking out an eyeball and inserting its proboscis there. That would be a bit of fun, wouldn’t it. Not exactly Disney material, though!

The problem then is that it’s strongly implied in Prometheus that the SJ was something that just hopped in to do the piloting. As you know, I’m not happy with that idea for ideological reasons. One way out of that conundrum would be for the Engineers to be revealed as a race that revere a pre-existing civilisation/technology, and they emulate their forms. Or, here’s another scenario...

The ship slowly formed, and attained a size where it could detach itself from its umbilicus. The pilot chair grew and, with it, the pilot bud grew in size. Gradually becoming aware of its identity, environment and purpose, it suddenly sensed pain as it detected an invading creature hacking at its limbs. Screaming in terror, the young pilot could do nothing as it was excised from its mother. It twitched and withered on the cold platform as a bipedal form took its place. With no concern and utter alacrity, the Engineer powered up the navigation...