Comments (Page 166)

ignorantGuy

You miss the point. I mentioned parodies and irrational characters as reasons for criticizing Prometheus, instead of some lack of xenomorph.

"BigDave Damon Lindelof ...."

Opps Spelling Police ;) my Bad... i do make some Typos!

Guilty as Charged ;)

I will further add that indeed if you take the Franchise and Explore what is Essentially a Tale of Humanity Faced with Horrors that they should not be trying to obtain... and Strip Away the Engineers, the Weyland-Yutani Company, Androids, Colonial Marines and Xenomorphs..   Then YES you just get a Normal Sci-Fi Franchise.

But each of these could be Expanded in a Spin Off, Certainly as far as a Comic, Novel or TV Series... not so much a Movie.

The Problem is that NOT everyone would know what these are about... if you had a TV Series called the Colonial Marines then not everyone would know what its about, until they research WHO these Marines are, those who would recognize the Colonial Marines would then be maybe asking.... so when do we see Xenomorphs?

To make a Spin Off more Marketable then you apply the ALIEN Prefix but by doing so then Expectations are that it would have to be about the Xenomorphs.

What RS had intended was to see HOW you can expand beyond the Xenomorphs... Especially as FAR as they are shown for the Most Part in the Franchise after ALIEN, which includes AVP, the Comics, Games.

so we have EGGS... from these Eggs we must get to a Queen, and these can LAY more Eggs... our Xenomorphs go around building Hives to again House more Queens and Eggs... what you have is like Ants/Bees.

Some Fans could love to see that over and over and over and over..... But its a case of that can become STALE... and Repetitive..

So you then have to look at HOW do you expand that... which is the 3 OPTION in my earlier Topic.  If you wish to Continue with Xenomorphs you have to Elevate them beyond Space Bugs...  this has to be done in 3 Ways.

1) A History of the Xenomorph/Origin where they are more than Space Ants, where they are NOT a Creation of Humanoid Engineers or a Mad Robot to be used to Destroy Humanity.

2) Have them as a Creation, but ONE that Rapidly Evolves, not only Psychically/Aesthetically but Culturally so they Evolve to have Wants/Needs beyond just Natural Desire of Procreation... so looking at ways they can PLAN on Domination rather than have to rely on being able to Spread via the Curiosity and Folly of its Hosts.

3) Have Humans gain the Xenomorph and Experiment on it, try and Obtain from it and Evolve it, and from this they cause a Evolution or Hybrids that then become a HUBRIS to the Humans who thought they could Exploit the Xenomorph and its Traits.

Because just going by Hives, Eggs and Queens then the only way these Beasts get off a World is by either Unsuspecting Visitors, or the Curiosity of such Visitors or the Agenda of such Visitors to a Hive World to try and Obtain and Exploit the Xenomorph.

Ridely Scott just seemed to feel we had seen such Beasts do their thing over and over, and he felt that Exploring WHO/WHY and WHEN as far as HOW these Beasts where Created was more Important.

BigDave Damon Lindelof ....

Well Respectfully i can see that some do see that the ALIEN Franchise has to be about Mainly the XENOMORPH....

I however disagree with some interpretations about the Direction that Prometheus was taking, ULTIMATELY you would have to go and ask Ridley Scott and Damien Lindeloff about what they had intended. But it Certainly did NOT seem they was going to be making the Xenomorph the CENTER of the Expanded Franchise.

So with Prometheus they was trying to offer a Expansion to the Franchise a Spin-Off that is SET in the same Universe, that is NOT a entire NEW Franchise but one that would not Revolve around the Xenomorph, because the NUTSHELL is the Xenomorph was merely some Horrid Creation that was the Result of the Experiments and Work the Engineers had began on LV-223.

Prior to the Xenomorph.... the Engineers Existed, for Millions of Years, Seeding Worlds, Potentially Many Worlds, Inter-Galactic not just Interstellar  prior to the Xenomorph we had Humanity, and how many versions of Humanity had the Engineers Seeded in the Universe?

These BIG Plot ideas that they wanted to Expand upon and Steer Away from our Snarling, Chest Busting Fiend.... so that they can take us to a Spin Off that maybe it would in Time had given Clues about the Xenomorph, or maybe NOT...

Creation, Sub-Creation, Knowledge, Evolution and Rebellion... these were the Themes that Ridley Scott had tried to Expand upon, as he felt you had reached what you could achieve with the Xenomorph and so something NEW was needed..... 

If the Xenomorph was to the Space Jockey merely what GUNPOWDER was to Humanity, then there is much more behind Gunpowder to Humanity, it becomes more about the Intentions and Thinking behind those who Fashion this Gunpowder into Horrific Forms of Defense/Offense...   

With the Engineers it was the Black Goo as opposed to Black Powder.

I know thats something that some Massive Xenomorph Fans would be Disappointed about... it was to TRY and explore the Space Jockey/Engineers more, and their Agenda/Thinking beyond just being Obsessed with Creating Queens and Eggs, this was ONLY a part of their History.

But things do change a bit.... it appears that a Change of Direction was issued with having to CAVE-IN and make Prometheus lean towards Alien Covenant and Set-Up the Xenomorph Origins... something that is more discussed in THIS TOPIC

So when i say they was trying to Expand the Franchise beyond the Xenomorph this is what Alien Engineers also had done, but then they decided that the Engineers/Humanity and Creation Plot did-not need to include Xenomorphs into the Equation...

so it was going to offer a way to Expand the Space Jockey Plot beyond Purely Carrying those Eggs.

Alien Engineers has Flaws... the Time Period was a Error, but if they FIXED that and Alien Engineers was the Movie we got then their are Still some Conflicting Things that DONT add up with ALIEN well certainly would raise some Questions...

Alien Engineers introduced the Themes of Prometheus, but it also was Very ALIENY Orientated but it appeared that the Basis is the Same as Prometheus only it chose to SHOW those Horrific Experiments and the Xenomorph from the Franchise was but just ONE Variant of the Experiments the Engineers had Concocted on LV-426 (where that Draft was set), it seemed that these Horrors where Creations from using their Seeding/Evolution Tool on some Organism they had Encountered to Create Variations of it.

The Ending of Alien Engineers before the Very Last Part we have Dr Watts finally after overcoming the Ordeal... we have David inform her that he has some kind of Arrangement he would like to make if she can REPAIR him.

This in Part Sets up a Sequel that you could Assume would Continue with David and Dr Watts, does she wait out for a Human Rescue Ship? or as David Warns could it be Hostile Engineers who return?

We had to look BEYOND our Bio-Mechanical Fiend, as Alien Engineers/Genesis had invested a lot into the Engineers Plot, its their Plot that Drove Dr Watts and Holloway to LV-426, in Search of our CREATORS...  and so i could not see them Abandon this Explanation in Favor of having a Sequel be about LV-426 prior to ALIEN or to even NOT make a Sequel so that Alien Engineers ===> moves to ALIEN.

==== Alien Engineers/Genesis Page 82/80===

Watts stares at the Orrery in amazement. Somewhere among those heavenly spheres is Earth. Somewhere perhaps the homeworld of the Engineers themselves

===================================

So it would have been Highly Likely that a Sequel would have gone on the Journey of Dr Watts having to put David back together and Continue the Search for our Creators and Answers.... leaving the Hell that LV-426 was which was a Outpost these Engineers had been Concocting Experiments to Create Horrors they could USE to Destroy Worlds.

In the Context to the Engineers Plot, again the Xenomorph was merely ONE kind of Weapon Created on that WORLD. It would be likely the Engineers Home-world would NOT be a Place they would STORE these Horrid Weapons.

I understand such a way to Expand beyond the Xenomorph does-not settle well with some, as they think the that the Xenomorph should be a BIGGER part of the Engineers, when as it stands now.... the Xenomorph is more Important to David than it appears it was to the Engineers overall Agenda and History for the Engineers it was a Weapon to use to Destroy... for David it is his Pride and Joy!

Leto Do you understand that Ridley's main backer at Fox during the making of Prometheus was the CEO Tom Rothman. But he was gone in September of 2012. The new leadership did not want to continue on the same path and imposed changes upon RS. Like the in 2014 there were articles that 14 scripts for Prometheus were refused, Rapace was removed, the composer Marc Streitenfeld who collaborated with RS on 5 movies was also removed. Then there was also Alien 5.

To cut the long story short nobody said that RS sabotage his movie, but that he is spiteful of the situation and the movie shows. He choose to still do it because he received the same budget as Prometheus and still be at the helm of the Franchise. And he seems to be pretty content with David, with whom he identifies.

What those hundreds of parodies did not get and complain about irrational characters, is that every character displays hubris in his own way, they think they know better but they don't. People seem to not accept that not every story is a power fantasy, characters can be parodies of attitudes. But probably audiences cannot see or are not comfortable with their own potential for screwing up major time in such situation.

>>>Could the Failure of a movie with Xenomorphs be used by RS to go and say "see if gave you ALIENS and this Movie STILL did-not do as well as Prometheus" he had said plans for a AC sequel would NOT be about the Xenomorph.

So, RS intentionally sabotaged Alien: Covenant? Because he was offended by the reaction to Prometheus? Or because he was forced to add xenomorphs to the story?

Wow, just WOW! This is what I call - REVELATION!

And I like (every time) how you attack the poor xenomorph and blame for everything. Of course, the fans too - the angry Alien fans wants to rip and tear, because Prometheus didn't have Alien. But tactfully and deftly avoiding the main reason - irrational characters.

Of course, neither you, nor RS, nor FOX didn't see and didn't hear thousands parodies only about the behavior of the characters. It's all xeno and alien fans who want Ripley and Queen.

I don’t want to seem rude, I just want to show all the absurdity of your logic.

And, if Ridley wanted to explore Engineers, why does he avoid them throughout the film?

The truth is that AC is a film that Prometheus supposed to be. With Engineer instead of David of course.

>>>Ultimately this was the Intention with Prometheus

No, it is not.

>>>it was to be more about WHO the Space Jockey are, and then show they had Experimented with Horrid

The creation of new franchises doesn't work like that.

As you probably know - you can't take the money allocated to you for franchise X and then invent franchise Z.

Alien: Engineers was a direct prequel. Prometheus is just not a direct prequel. But still a part of Universe. One of the prequels. That was an intention. Not creating a separate franchise.

Yes, Prometheus took a new direction, but new direction =/= new franchise.

And if we suppose (just suppose!) that Prometheus was a new franchise, then why was Ridley so alarmed about Alien 5 from Blomkamp? These are different franchises, different universes, they are not competitors among themselves. Ridley could have quietly developed his own Prometheus franchise, because it's ... well ... another franchise. Why worry about Alien franchise? Why not worry about Predator or Terminator franchises?

And - you can't take the content of original films, insert it into the new story and miraculously create a new franchise.

If you want to create a new franchise, you should leave not only xenomorphs, you also should leave WY, Space Jockey's aesthetic, C/U alien ships.

But if it were so, then I doubt that this forum and all of us would have gathered here. ;) It would be a regular film like Interstellar or Annihilation.

Sorry for being out-of-touch, life has a way of making our mortal plans nothing but excercises in sheer folly.

The Sequel is coming along, slowly as I'm trying to keep it congruent to what's actually going on in the ALIEN Franchise.

However, they're taking forever, and I'm not sure anyone really know what direction they're going in.

That said, I will be doing the sequel congruent and relative to established Canon and Continuity. That's how I did ALIEN: Manticore and it worked out pretty well it seems from the positive responses. :D

The BIG issue is my faithful workhorse for 15 years--my laptop--finally reached the end of it's life, so I need to replace it and get a recovery service to pull everything off it's drive...as in there is where the sequel is. I have backups, but the workhorse dies just before a planned update.

SO, the sequel is going ahead--even if I have to restart it from scratch.
It might not match up to whatever happens in the Franchise, but it will match-up to what has been established.

It will cover what I have come up with regarding the origins of The Alien--maybe--but it will definitely demonstrate the difference between David's critters vs The Big Chap itself. ;)

Thank-You VERY much for your interest in my work, I really needed that little boost right now!! To you all, I wish you and your loved ones good health and good days!!

M. Blackwinter

BigDave Sorry about my previous comment I might have been too harsh.

Be eliminating Daniels you could have gain time by not showing her morning the lost of her bf/husband on the Covenant (as Shaw did that already). You could have reduce the number of neomorph infections to one. You could have removed the robot Kung-fu. You could have removed the last part on the Covenant almost completely. There were ways to makes bring back Shaw, very easily IMHO. But their objective was clearly to distance themselves from Prometheus, and willingly say a FU to those who like the movie for other reasons than David. 

@BigDave: If it was a neo/xeno that burst from that Space Jockey's chest, I hate to think how large it was.  That, and where the heck was it when the crew of the Nostromo arrived?

I think IsraelSchmidt you make a Good Point that i have mentioned a few times prior. But none the less i have to also agree with Nathan, that our Space Jockey Certainly was a Legitimate 12-15ft Entity.

I did this Image a while ago, that shows what the Prometheus Engineers are like compared to the Space Jockey that is in the Chair on LV-426

Certainly at Inception of the Prequels our Engineers were intended to be 12-15ft Tall.

I will add that the ALIEN Franchise could Branch off to Different things that are NOT nothing to do with the Xenomorph, but such Ventures would NOT be best to be a Movie, and maybe should not CARRY the ALIEN Prefix because indeed this is Synonymous with and Expected to be about the XENOMORPH.

I Personally think there is other ways they could/should have Weaved the Xenomorph Purpose into something more HP Lovecraft.

" if you really want to move away from the xenomorph, then why not create a separate franchise?"

Ultimately this was the Intention with Prometheus it was to be more about WHO the Space Jockey are, and then show they had Experimented with Horrid stuff as a Weapon to use on Worlds they wanted to Eradicate, with Vague Clues to HELP us see that the Xenomorph was also a Result of the Evils those Engineers had been up to on LV-223..

But it was just NOT as Spoon Fed and it lacked any real Monsters that connected to the Xenomorph. Some Fans felt what they would be Getting was a Movie that would Connect to the Xenomorph and Derelict, when in reality it was about WHO the Space Jockey are.

Absolutely the Original Franchise had Centered around the Xenomorph, you did-not need to have Ripley involved in every Movie, as far as more Movies to Follow, you never had to always have it be about the Weyland Yutani Company either.

The Problem with the Xenomorph is deciding on its ORIGINS not so much as far as to SHOW them, but that those working on the Movies know what those Origins are..

For Example.

1) Was the Xenomorph a Natural Organism or has some Unknown Origins but was merely Discovered by the Engineers/Space Jockey!

In this case you then have to ask is there more to it than just Queen lays Eggs, Face Huggers pop out, a Host is Infected and we get Chest Busters and Xenomorphs!  How many times can you keep repeating that?  You would have to at some point go to the PLANET where these Organisms where First Discovered or to a PLANET that has been Completely Overran by them.... but then surely you have to EXPAND on them more than it just being Hadleys Hope Infestation on a Larger Scale.

2) Was the Xenomorph a Engineered Experiment/Weapon kind of from Scratch?

In this case eventually the Queen/Egg/Xenomorph would run its course, before you would have to then look at WHO/WHY/WHEN and HOW was the Xenomorph Created and then move onto those who Created it and what Agenda, maybe then Exploring more about the Creators.

3) Was the Xenomorph a Experiment that had Originated from Experimenting/Discovery of some other Organism?

This would kind of Combine 1+2, where once you have seen the Xenomorph and HOW it came to be, you explore either  or both of WHO had Experimented on some other Organism to then Create the Xenomorph, and/or what this Original Organism was.

A lot of Fans do have a Passion for the Xenomorph, but it really can become Repetitive unless you go for OPTION 1 because and i dont mean to Cause Offense by this... what you are in effect having is a Space Bug, a Cosmic Cockroach....  ok a more Intelligent kind but still some kind of Parasitic Bug.

Because thats what we really have.... a somewhat Intelligent, Deadly Invasive Species, like some kind of Bi-Pedal kind of Intelligent Parasitic Ants.  By their Nature not so much Aesthetically.

so you have to come up with looking at is there more to this Organism, or can they Evolve to something more?  Or Explore what Creature/Organism they had been Engineered from or their Creators and their Agenda/History and Culture.

For many i think the Space Jockey Revelation and Xenomorph as a Bi-Product of a Biological Pathogen are JUST not as ALIEN as Fans would have expected before the Prequels had began.

Regarding the Pickle that was the 2nd Prequel...

It simply was a MISTAKE in trying to give the Xenomorph and a Direct Prequel, while trying to Carry some of Prometheus with it!

In Hindsight a 2nd Mission to LV-223 could have given the Fans more of a ALIEN ENGINEERS with more Clues/Answers and the Xenomorph or very close with clues to indicate HOW/WHERE/WHEN the Xenomorph came to be.

And then after THIS we could have seen Ridley Scott go with his Prometheus 2 and Steer Away from ALIEN.

Before i continue i will add that the Process of a Prometheus 2 alone was Tricky, they was having a HARD time to come up with a Prometheus 2.... before after 2014 a Change in Direction somewhat lead to what was the Work that Dante Harper had begun that Evolved to Alien Covenant.

By deciding to give us HOW/WHEN/WHY the Xenomorph Origins had begun, and having this Story take place on Planet 4 with Davids Experiments over 10 years, then Needing some more Humans to Arrive to that Planet meant they had to Devise a Plot for HOW any Humans would Arrive at this Place where David had been Stranded.

If we look at AC, if we was to add more Scenes about the Engineers, have Dr Shaw alive, even as Flash Backs never mind she gets Rescued or Rescues the Covenant Crew, then these would ADD to the Theatrical Run Time.... so some Sacrifices had to be made...

Its a Shame as on ONE hand i would imagine those who liked Prometheus would have wanted to see more about the Engineers and Dr Shaw, rather than be Centered around David, i think those who wanted the Xenomorph and Origins again would NOT have wanted to see it Created and Centered around David likewise.

So its a Pickle... but indeed it could have been a BIG F-U to those who RS and Few others in Charge felt had OBJECTED to a Prometheus 2....  so in effect a they want £"$"£% Xenmorphs we will give them some... and then they would be saying... you see sometimes its not best to GET what you ask for.... and pull the NOW maybe you see somethings are best left a Mystery...

The SAD thing is they could have given more about the Engineers, and Dr Shaw and still have incoming Humans.. and give few Clues to the Xenomorph but still keep the David Creator Arc... via him Acknowledging the Xenomorph in the Past and announcing he was CREATING something that Surpasses it... and give us something that was more like the Ultramorph...

Thus keeping some Mystery with the Xenomorph, and keeping its Creation and Origins as Ancient and Certainly NOT by David but ALAS...

@ignorantGuy

The Prequels had gone through some Changes and i will agree that the Purpose of the Prequels was that as Ridley Scott had said, No One ever Answered who was the Big Guy in the Chair and WHY that Cargo.  They came up with the Engineers as the Space Jockey and then reached a point where they Actually Felt that you have seen the Xenomorph over and over, and while YES the Xenomorph was the ALIEN, like other Franchises, Once you Start to show that Beast/Bad Guy over and over it can become Repetitive and do Damage to Reputation of the Beast/Bad Guys Original Few Appearances, this applies to the likes of Freddy Freddy Krueger, Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees and you could say JAWS too etc.

As they had decided that the Xenomorph was just a Engineered Biological Warfare, they had decided that maybe you dont need the Xenomorph, you can leave ALIEN having a Mystery and Explore the Space Jockey/Engineers as something NEW where you would have a SEPARATE kind of Franchise where its connected to ALIEN by Virtue of the Xenomorph being a Biological Weapon that had arisen from the Experiments etc on LV-223.

This was somewhat a ERROR on their Part... they should have made more of a Xenomorph Connection/Answers and had more of a Monster that was similar so they could CLOSE the Door to ALIEN and then go off with the Engineers to Explore a Spin Off...  But ALAS...

I Certainly can see the Potential in the Big F-U....  because we did see RS say "if they want Aliens i will give them $"£%£$ Aliens" and he had mentioned he felt the Beast was Cooked.   To me this seemed that RS was not a Massive Fan of going back to the Xenomorph as he maybe Felt there was NOT a lot you can continue with apart from giving the Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs got onto the Derelict.  It seemed he was Frustrated that he could not have Continued with a Prometheus 2 that would STEER AWAY from ALIEN.

He had mentioned that he Felt the Fans wanted those Answers and wanted the Xenomorph... and so it seems he went with the U-Turn to give us a Direct Prequel Series... but his Comments such as they want £!"$£"% Aliens does seem he felt this was NOT what he wanted.... so indeed the David as the Creator could have been the Ultimate F-U to the Fans... well those he felt wanted to see Xenomorphs, and he maybe Blamed this on him not being allowed to go with his Prometheus 2 ideas..

Could the Failure of a movie with Xenomorphs be used by RS to go and say "see if gave you ALIENS and this Movie STILL did-not do as well as Prometheus" he had said plans for a AC sequel would NOT be about the Xenomorph.

A Frustrating thing about RS is he has a Habit of Contradicting himself.....  even over a Period of Months... so we had... the Beast is Cooked, he was Ahead of the Curve with Prometheus.... to it has to be about HIM (we can assume the ALIEN/Xenomorph) but you have to Evolve Him, and then also to mentioning about its about the ALIEN and you have to Evolve it and look at other ways of Procreation.  (i agree with that as its a case of how many times can you make Movie about Queen => Egg => Xenomorph?).

So we do get some Conflicting Comments by RS, i think overall he saw more Scope with Expanding the Franchise beyond our Queen and Eggs.

But Certainly this is WHAT the Franchise was best known for... it was what is more Marketable i think the PROBLEM came from RS wanting to Explore the other Themes and Plot about Prometheus, Creation and Engineers than to go back to what in effect was just some Horrid Organism that had came from Experiments on LV-223.

But a lot of Fans see Prometheus as being a ALIEN movie and so would expect that it HAS to connect to the Xenomorphs... when it seems the Plan they had was to have it become a SPIN-OFF where Prometheus was the Connecting Tissue to ALIEN.

The Problem being that it was NOT enough of a Connection to then Close the Door to ALIEN... and Explore something else without the Shackles of the Franchise.

Good idea! I'd find that way more interesting than a movie featuring boring old humans. Money won't let that happen, though.

@BigDave "I can explain the Pit Falls in another Post." Sorry, but please don't. You usually write much but you repeat yourself so much that another repeat would not be necessary.

I find really hard to believe that the studios not wanted to have Xenos in Prometheus for quite a bunch of reasons:

1. Ridley himself said he would return to the franchise to explore the space jockey as that was not explored (going back to the 2000s). He was saying the beast is cooked till 2014 at least. Have you even read the article? Their argument is that AC a big FU to those who said that Prometheus is too "idiosyncratic".

2. The studios would have marketted Xeno merch much more easily that anything in Prometheus.

3. Lindelof was brought in by Ridley himself probably to expand the mysterious atmosphere.

Shaw did not need to die, as she could have functioned easily enough as Daniels and would have a more complicated history with David. And guess what Carlos Huante said she was still alive in the early drafts, hiding on the planet. They could have toned down the religious aspect if people complain about that. But she was killed off at the request of the new studio honchos, replaced with some that looks more like Ripley. Probably that she was cast also in the Harry Potter prequels helped a lot, as recognition for teenagers.

In other language - I consider it an absolute necessity: to reduce the aspect of the corporation to an absolute minimum.

Remove conspiracy, remove corporation agents. Put a new world, put a true scientists, put the xeno, put the true Engineers (Prometheus without doubts), put another life forms, put alien technologies, make AvE - Alien vs Engineer.

One question, the real question that needs to be asked - if you really want to move away from the xenomorph, then why not create a separate franchise? Why waste time, money and the potential of new stories about Aliens on films about cheap humanoids and other faceless monsters? Why use the noble Alien Universe as a cat tray for dubious ideas?

Especially if such a film can cancel the real story about Alien.

But there is still WY, right? WY is a part of Alien Universe and it’s possible to create a whole bunch of movies about WY, right? No. WY is not a core of franchise. The core is *cough... cough...* - xenomorph.

Like Thoughts_Dreams not interested in other films about AI. I can say the same about WY. Moreover - it's even worse! WY - surprise-surprise xeno-haters - will not give you wonderful new worlds! All you get is a bureaucracy, intrigue and boring actions between people, which you will see in any other films. No xenomorphs, no engineers, no deep questions, no philosophy. And no box-office. No another Alien films. Congratulations - you got your film with original content!

@IsraelSchmidt: The problem is that the Space Jockey on LV-426 that Dallas and Kane found fossilised wasn't drawn or depicted, it was approximately 7ft taller than the 8ft Engineers we saw in Prometheus, and it seemed more equivalent to the "Kings" shown in Elizabeth Shaw's notebook, especially the second page depicting the Ptolemaic period (i.e. 100 B.C.).

Regarding Ridley Scott....

I think he is one of the Best Directors well a Very Well known one, does that mean he is Great?  Nope, he has made some Great Movies and some NOT so Great Movies but then thats the same with Most Directors.

Kubrick is a bit different he released less, but he had spent more time on the Story... (from Concept to Completion)

Ridley Scott is mainly a Ideas Man... he then works with a Team to Flesh them into a Story, and then he will Tinker with that Story.  Ridley Scott is Very Efficient, he often allows Actors a lot of Freedom with the Character, he Gives Pointers, but he will allow them to do things for themselves and then Re-shoot if he is not pleased.

He is Very Practical and likes to have SETS and Props that allow the Actors to get more a Sense of the Scene and NOT rely on imagination... this can have its Drawbacks.. (Cost/Build Time).  But he is Very Efficient in the Directors Chair, with how many Cameras and Shots...

His Greatest Asset is Once the Sets/Props/Costumes are all Ready, he can go in and SHOOT a Movie very Quick compared to Many.   Sometimes this has some Pitfalls though and Errors/Oversights.

I think its Important to Remember the Prequels where always like a Work in Progress, things Evolved and Changed..

It seemed that prior to Jon Spaights we was going to get another Movie that would have been about Humans Discovering Eggs and being Basically another ALIENS.

We then got to having a Plot about the Engineers, as it would give us something to relate to, rather than Discovering some ALIEN Race who would NOT be able to Communicate with Mankind, and so its then HOW do we get Humans to go to a Place where the Creator/Origins of the Xenomorph are if this Species are Totally ALIEN and then where do you go from that if you want a Sequel....

So the Engineers Plot came into play, which is a Interesting Bold Plot but somewhat a Double Edged Sword/Poisoned Chalice.  It appeared that RS was interested in Spaights Ideas and what became Alien Engineers, before SOMETHING had happened that lead to them DROPPING the Xenomorph and Answers...

Was this RS, was it Giler/Hill or someone else?

I think Regardless, what happened is that Ridley Scott agreed and felt that a Prequel does-not have to be Literal Connecting Prequel, its Good to keep some Mystery and we have seen the Xenomorph over and over and over and so to DROP them and Concentrate on the Space Jockey/Engineers and that Plot was something different.

To give us a Spin Off Franchise that would STEER AWAY from the First Movie... (ALIEN).

The Problem was that Prometheus and Especially the Cut we got, just NEVER cave enough Answers, some Fans expected to Learn more about the Xenomorph Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY the Derelict and Cargo ended up on LV-426.

For some it was Disappointing that the ONLY kind of Action/Death scenes related to the Franchise came from Space Cobra Petting, and Trilobite Face Hugging/Deacon Chest Busting.  Where some Fans may feel that these just dont Compare to the Xenomorph and HOW do they exactly Connect?

The Majority of Deaths coming from a Angry Bald 7ft+ Humanoid Engineer, and a Toxic Avenger looking Mutated Human....  again nothing like Xenomorphs.

I dont think everyone expected Xenomorphs, but they would have wanted more Connections/Clues and something more Relatable that went around and Killed Folk!   And so it never meant we NEEDED a Xenomorph... something like the Neomorphs that then Killed say 4-6 People would have done.

I think some Fans read the Alien Engineers Draft and/or saw the Concepts and Felt that Prometheus lacked this Xenomorphy like Monsters.  With Alien Engineers we had TWO kinds of Face Hugger, and THREE kinds of Xenomorph like Organisms.

The Milburn Death and Engineers Death/Chest Buster just NEVER really matched what the Franchise had and Alien Engineers.

Prometheus had a Number of Flaws.... but the Studio had Considered that NOT having Xenomorph Related Monsters, or more Clues was what Disappointed Fans..

And so by the Time we get to Latter Drafts after Harper had left the Project we had came to a Literal Prequel Series that would had been a Few Movies that would introduce the Xenomorph, its Origins and Eventually Provided us the Answers to the Derelict/LV-426.

By Virtue of such a U-TURN and how do we get from Prometheus to ALIEN and the Derelict in a Chronological Order over another 2-3 Movies that would then take us to the Back Door of ALIEN and then HOW in that Time-Line (28 Years) were you would have to get from Prometheus to Alien while Covering the Xenomorph Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY it ended up on LV-426 and have to Re-Introduce Humans...

Well these Necessary Plot Choices provided Many Pit Falls that is WHY with Alien Covenant it was a bit of a MESS.

I can explain the Pit Falls in another Post.

I would say that Giler/Hill likely wanted to continue with the David Arc, and Ridley Scott felt he was a Character they cant Scrap..... But the David Creator and Emphasis on him was NOT the only Problem, it made sense to where they wanted to Expand on the Bigger Themes...

The U-Turn to go and connect to ALIEN and then HOW do you introduce Humans... means that within a 2 Hour Movie you have to make Sacrifices.... Character Depth, Dr Shaw, The Engineers are all things that had to be Cut Down because there was TOO MUCH that had to be Set Up that to have more Depth of Characters, more about the Engineers and Dr Shaw would have required a Extra Hour....

Especially when the Emphasis is to GET to the Xenomorph but more so the Revelation about WHO had Created it...  And so Sacrificed had to be made, things Forced and Speed Up for the sakes of Pacing (Xenomorph Gestation/Growth Rates).

I think you raise some Good Points.... we can assume that the Engineers are Millions of Years Old and that its likely they dont re-use the same Ships that they do since they First Began to become Space Fairing Species...

What becomes of such Ships?  I would Speculate they would NOT want any other Species to obtain any of their Technology so it would be Interesting to Speculate about where and what they would do with Obsolete Technology.

The Pebble Ship from the Sacrificial Scene could be such a Obsolete Technology, thats been Replaced with something BETTER... which i think the Juggernauts could be.

The Docking Ship was interesting as this seemed to be its Purpose, those working on the Movie said that it was like some kind of Border Control, indeed we cant say for Certain that this SHIP can Leave the Planet and so is NOT any Interstellar Craft.

I think while we can Speculate and Hope... i do think its Very Likely the ONLY kind of Ship we would see thats related to the Engineers will be more Juggernauts and we would have to Accept at Conclusion that this is what ENDS up on LV-426.

So indeed i agree that its Unlikely we would see any NEW kinds of Ships, i think thats the Case even if the Prequels are Finished... if the Prequels are Scraped then i cant see Disney going back to the Engineers.

As far as the Big Screen/Small Screen.... we cant RULE it out in Comics or Games but i am NOT so sure we would even see them in those Mediums.

Certainly all we can do is Speculate.... we could Wonder would they have more Military Ships as the Juggernauts seemed to LACK any real Defenses, all they seem to do is DROP their Cargo.... The Docking Ship likewise came Unstuck VS the Bombarding Juggernaught.

The Logical Explanation would be the Engineers do-not need a Variety of Ships as they are the Founders/Seeders of Worlds and they keep those Worlds in Check so they do-not become a Threat and so they are so Naive to think that NO other Species could Evolve Alone to such a Level...

Such Arrogance that would likely Prove Costly to their Species.  We also have to Wonder if they never have Internal Conflicts that would result in using Ships for Warfare beyond Dropping Drums of Viral Crap on each other.

Again the Comics did kind of show Engineer Weapons, and similar was in the earlier Prometheus Drafts (Alien Engineers and Alien Genesis) so maybe the Comics could be Adventurous but again i think Disney would only be interested in the Marines and Xenomorphs and Predators.

"hox brings up a good point referencing from Aliens that 400 worlds were surveyed by WY"

And they had Never Encountered anything like the Xenomorph before... which we know is NOT True which means stuff gets COVERED UP ;)

But regardless we do know that they had Encountered other Species, the Arcturians, we can Safely Assume that Mankind has Colonized many Worlds, and Mined Many too.

By the time we get to Alien Resurrection we can only Speculate as to how many Alien Species that Mankind have had Contact with.

Also by Virtue of the Engineers Plot, it is Likely there are other Worlds they have Created/Evolved other Alien Species, are they all Humanoid?  If the Engineers have done so, but at some point prior to ALIEN our Engineers are GONE... or by ALIENS.... 

If the Engineers had Created other Species on other Worlds, you would Safely Assume that Eventually Mankind would DISCOVER them... or maybe THEY would Discover us.

So there is Potential to Steer Away from ALIEN and Xenomorphs be it A.I or other Alien Species... but then also there are other ways to go about Xenomorphs or Similar Horrors too.

When looking back at the Franchise (i will NOT inc the AVP Movies) then i think for the Most Part all we can do is mainly Speculate.  Now some of that can be Shaped Different depending on WHICH versions we take into account.

Each Movie has some Conflicts and Bugs there are some Differences Particularly when we Connect the Prequels to ALIEN but then we have discussed things such as the Derelict vs Juggernaught, Engineer vs Space Jockey, the Cave vs Cargo Hold and the Davids Xenomorph vs Alien Xenomorphs... these have been covered a LOT.

So in Context to your Post DK then i would agree the Weyland-Yutani Company have played a HUGE Role, they are a KEY element, and something that IF we got any Conclusion then maybe we could have seen WHY they became to Central.

Ripley also played a KEY Role in the First 4 Movies, because as Ignorantguy pointed out in Alien Resurrection we see that W-Y had been brought out by Walmart but none the LESS the Agenda of some Human Scientists/Company wishing to Obtain a Xenomorph is still at play... Different Company, but Similar Agenda.

Ripley playing the Main Role, but she has NO bearing on the Prequels she was just the Human Heroine Character to overcome the Xenomorph Threat.

Or Xenomorph being what you would ASSUME is the Main Focus of the Franchise, but they are just the ALIEN THREAT that the Humans must overcome...

so we have 6 Movies, and 4 of them Feature Ripley, 5 of them Feature the Weyland-Yutani Company in some Form (Weyland for Prometheus), 5 of them Feature the Xenomorph, we have 3 of them that is about the W-Y Company trying to Obtain the Xenomorph

What ALL of the Movies have is A.I/Androids and when i look at all the Movies i do see a Potential Connection to the A.I playing a Large Role.  With Aliens and Alien 3 you could argue that Bishop was Different as he had NO kind of Nefarious Agenda, and Michael Bishop was Human.

But when trying to ADD how things can Connect from Movie to Movie, then Bishop did seem to know or would have been aware of HOW the Eggs got on the Sulaco or he indeed did by the Time he was Activated by Ripley. so you could Ponder what Role had A.I or Bishop in this.

Ash seemed to be VERY interested in the Xenomorph he Admired it a lot, which maybe takes on a Whole New Light if he is aware that his Ancestor (David) had Created it.

Then we come to AR... there is that Back Ground revelation about CALL where we know the Autons are Synthetics Created by Synthetics and so 200 Years after ALIENS we do see that the Earth (well some Cities) is in a Bad Shape, we have Synthetics going around to Sub-Create and seeing their Sub-Creation for a Rebellion (Autons) and so i think that behind the Scenes we see that A.I and Sub-Creation are playing a HUGE role.

@ignorantguy, we will have to agree to disagree about Ridley Scott’s genius status. I would just point out that his “RidleyGram” storyboards are legendary in the business. Actors, who jump at the chance to work with him, are on record as describing him as a genius.

Kubrick’s behaviour that you mention is exactly my point. Kubrick hid himself away and focused on a small number of works to the exclusion of everything else. Scott has his fingers in too many pies in my opinion.

G. I. Jane: features the Razzie 1997 award for worst actress.

A Good Year: described as a comedy, but featuring very little in the way of humour. Tedious story.

Making decisions based mostly on emotions is not smart, you got to think things through to try to make the best out of the situation. You can not make people like a parody if you want your movie to be taken seriously because they are a big part of making it work. If the characters do not work you do not have a movie, to me it is as simple as that. They made their own bed and now we have what we have.

Covenant has less annoying characters but Prometheus looks better. On the other hand it is too much about the robots in Covenant and less so in Prometheus. I agree with DK about Prometheus on leaving out the Xeno Fifield and having less cut out scenes. The major problem with both of them is that they lack good characters while that was not a problem with 1, 2, and 3.

To me there is 1, 2, and 3, the rest do not really matter even if there are parts of them that are interesting to discuss. Even though they are not perfect at least they are not about robots and most of the characters are at least alright.

GI Jane is okay yes people have different tastes and there might be people that read this that react with "whaattt?????" but that is not a problem because art is subjective. I would probably rather watch that movie compared to Covenant, LOL. For now it seems that AC effed up the franchise and I would rather watch the short movies.

hox Sorry but I would not say RS is a genius, yes he has a very keen eye and can make movies very efficiently. You know what Kubrick did between movies? He stayed in the effin library to document himself in order to make his masterpiece movies. RS never did that ... he did not find Do android dream of .... interesting enough to finish the book. In all honesty a good part of Alien would like different weren't for 2001. And you know what, Blade Runner was not even the first movie to mix Noir with Sci-fi, that would be Alphaville.

Kubrick hated the Hollywood system, while RS is a good "businessman". He is definitely not a victim here.

I would like to know why do you consider GI Jane and A Good Year as his worse, as many of his movie on Metacritic are 50 or below. Are those not sadistic enough for your taste? 

I enjoy AVP and Resurrection. They are great popcorn flicks and that is why I didn't take the Walmart reference seriously- I thought it was just mor being jaded and cynical like the general tone of the characters were. 

hox brings up a good point referencing from Aliens that 400 worlds were surveyed by WY. I could imagine Cameron making a movie based off that just like Scott made a movie based on the SJ. Same rationale: Camron: "No one ever picked up the reference about those other worlds and that's why I am making Aliens 1.5."

I wouldn’t let facts get in the way of a good story. I mean, if we’re sticking to what actually happened on screen, we’re lumbered with Predators harvesting Alien Queens on Earth going back thousands of years (AVP). Disclosure and guilty pleasure: I do like that movie.

The Company should not have met a similar fate to Newt and Hicks. Such a waste of something that almost amounts to a character in itself.

With “over 400 surveyed worlds” in the time of Aliens, there is plenty of scope for setting stories on far-flung reaches of the Galaxy where WY’s evil influence reigns supreme.

@dk, it’s a pity you won’t see the prequels again. I’ve seen Prometheus and Covenant countless times and - despite their faults - enjoy them hugely. I cannot say the same for the final movie of the quadrilogy, which I grudgingly watch every few years to keep my hand in!

I don’t think there’s any doubt that Prometheus & Covenant would be far worse movies had Ridley Scott not been onboard. My problem with Ridley is that he’s spread himself too thinly. With his executive producing roles he must spend morning, day and night overseeing his multitude of interests. That might be fun for him, but it’s a shame for us. When I contrast his rampant production promiscuity with, say, Stanley Kubrick, I find myself wondering where we’d be now if Ridley had spent his life differently, turning his genius toward making a few select movies. Almost without exception, Kubrick made a small number of truly outstanding works. Sure, he led a weird life verging on the antisocial, but he’s left us with a brilliant heritage. Ridley has left us “A Good Year” and “G.I. Jane”, to mention just two of his stonking turkeys.

The other side of the coin is studio interference. Kubrick was able to bat away the MGM suits, because his stature towered above each and every nervous executive. What a shame that Fox bent Scott to their will by forcing the Big Boy back into the frame at the end of Covenant. Still, in 2020 what can he do about that. Disney’s controlling hand will likely be as bad as the overarching dominance of Weyland-Yutani in years to come.

ignorantGuy Agree. Personally, I will stick with the Quadilogy and although I have the prequels, I probably will not ever watch them again. Last year's Alien Day's IGN shorts series are still worth watching as well.

I consider the series as done- but I still like to discuss and debate aspects of it. 

dk ... will the corona situation you won't a confirmation anytime soon. And if we go into a big economic crisis who knows if they would be willing to invest on franchise with diminishing returns.

I think it would be safe to assume that it is dead for the near future.

ignorantGuy I agree a documentary about that would be worth watching. No argument there. I would imagine that there would be heated interviews if key people even agreed to participate or might have gag orders from FOX/Disney or possibly RS. I would pay to see it as well. However, as much as I enjoy discussion/debate/speculation, I honestly would like to see the franchise shit or get off the pot. Little teases and rumors grow tiresome after a while, yes? Either confirm a continuation, or cut it off and let it die with dignity.

Can we really know for sure dk what happened during 2012 and 2017, so of course it will be an opinion piece. I bring it up to have something interesting to talk about, on how much do find plausible that the author nailed.... 

And because I am interested to know what happened and I would give money to see a documentary about it... Talking about where the series should go next.

The article brings up some good points, but ultimately feels like an opinion piece- which is ok I guess.

Here is the down and dirty. Prometheus would have been a fantastic sci fi movie if it would have been a stand alone movie with no connections, even aesthetically, to the Alienverse. Just my opinion.

Leto Well, judging what the article says neither Alien Engineers nor Covenant is what Ridley Scott wanted to make.

I think Prometheus would have been better and smoother with most deleted scenes added and also adding the CGI Fifeld berserker scene.

AC might have been better if I hadn't seen some of the trailers and viral videos that probably made my expectations unrealistic. Those videos had more depth than the actual movie imo.

Both movies could have had better character development.

Good point- I forgot Walmart bought out WY lol. Although extremely diluted xeno blood in soda or spirits is an entertaining thought.