New Replies (Page 168)

This is a Interesting take by Artist Christian Urdapilleta

This is also Interesting by Mark Williams as far as Imagine that with a Snorkel/Mask, but its a little to GREY ALIEN looking though.  I think Different Eyes and Position then something like that could maybe Work?

I think the BEST revelation would have been a Bio-Mechanical Entity/Being like in that Last Image, which is what our Xenomorph is.

Well it kind of  Looked that way, as Walters Hand did look like it had Melted a Bit, but then its a Case of HOW did David replicate that (but the Crew maybe would not have paid a Great lot of Attention to his Wound).

However during the Shooting of the Neomorph by Oram we NEVER really saw any Evidence of Acid Blood.  Which is a bit ODD as the Hammerpedes had Acid Blood, and it was likely the Trilobite did too (as the Full Scene it would appear the Engineer obtained his Acid Burn from Biting the Trilobite but we DONT have that Full Shoot not even on Extras).

As David and Dr Shaw had taken the Juggernaught from another Complex, maybe this Complex has a Different Kind of Black Goo that does-not pass on the Acid Blood, but David was able to add this to his Final Specimen?

Looking at the ACID BLOOD and in reply to Nathan, then maybe the Chemical that is the Blood would React with the Air and so WHILE the Blood is inside the Organism it does-not have the Acid Properties but it does so ONCE the Blood leaves the Body?

But it is more Likely the Genetic Structure of the Xenomorph is NOT affected by the Acid.

im sure the neomorph does have acid for blood as we saw with walter shoving his hand inside the mouth of the neomorph that attacked him and his hand melted didnt it?

i might be wrong its been a while since i watched it.

When i First Saw the Space Jockey a few times it was LONG AGO in a Time prior to DVD and the Internet and indeed at this Time it came across like a Skeleton, but i was Young and we never had the Benefit of Larger/Clearer TV's.

It was only in the 90's that i came across a Magazine from a Friend with Close Ups and i am sure RS had said it was a Space Suit in the Magazine, when i looked at the Space Jockey Arms and Head (apart from the Face) it did look ODD for a Skeleton, this Magazine also had the HR Giger Concept which when i looked at that then it did-not look a Skeleton to me.

Once the DVD came out and i had Watched it on DVD about Year 2000, then i could PAUSE it and then the only Part that looked like a Skeleton to me was the Face, and Ribs to a Degree.   But at this time what i assumed the Space Jockey was is a BIO-MECHANICAL being like the Xenomorph was, like SIL from Species was etc.  So to me the Rib-cage was more like the Xenomorphs in that what we had was more of a Exo-Skeleton.

It was a FEW years latter via the Internet i came across and could STUDY in depth more work by HR Giger which included his Face Hugger Concepts and the Mural for ALIEN and then indeed i could see it could be a Space Suit but i felt it was VERY ODD that the Occupants were Humanoid.

So for me then YES i think the BEST way to Reveal it would be either some SPACE SUIT where the Occupant is NOT so Human, or even as i showed in my Posts where the SUIT has no HELMET but the Skull of a ALIEN being with some Breathing/Snorkel thats attached to the Face.

Or that it is some Bio-Mechanical Entity like the Xenomorph is and various HR Giger Work.

I think we may have to accept its a Engineer though, and i dont think so much Complaints would be made if the Engineers where 10-12ft Tall on Screen and the SUIT looked more like this ONE.

Maybe trying to make it look a bit more like HR Gigers Concept from the BANNER and Proportions as below.

You could put on a nice black suit and a fedora or a bowler hat, and speak in a monotone voice and ask people about aliens and UFOs, so you resemble a man in black. They resemble Engineers.

When I first watched Alien I got the notion that the Space Jockey was a species itself but after watching Prometheus I really didn't have a problem with it just being a space suit for the pilot.

For me the idea that its some sort of biomechanical suit that you get into to pilot a ship is just as interesting as it being a completely different alien race from the Engineers. I really don't mind it at all.

It could just be that the Derelict in Alien belonged to a different sect or race of engineers (think Romulan and Vulcan) who like engineering themselves further than what they are.

Then again, its quite possible that the Space Jockey in Alien could be David who liked messing about with the black goo and did something to himself and then build a ship that was big enough for himself.

What impressed me about the original Alien was that the alien was GENUINELY alien. Acid for blood, very rapid growth, etc. Giger seems particularly interested in bubble forms (rounded, as if pressurised from within) so for me, the problem of rapid growth is easily explained by the alien being mostly exoskeleton: I imagine a very low density fibrous structure inside. Did you ever see the movie Shin Godzilla? Could that be a very similar concept: not just a large lizard, but a radically different concept of life? In the case of Shin Godzilla the body seemed to be held together and moved by atomic energy – that is the force that not only stopped the being from collapsing under its weight, but could even burst out from the body, and rapidly reconfigure the physical shape. I was particularly interested in the very end where the humanoid creatures began to break from the tail, suggesting that the whole body was made from a web of fibres, filled with plasma and space, rather than solid bone or muscle. In Prometheus, the black goo worked so quickly that I wonder if something similar was going on. That is, is the life force best thought of as fibre and energy rather than solid blocks? It might use a host body, but only as a parasite uses a superstructure: once it has sufficient materials it becomes a shell with low density fibrous inside. Now low density does not have to mean weak or soft: it might be like drums of steel mesh inside: a drum of steel mesh is extremely strong even though most of it is air. Or it could be aerogel – filling the space with no gaps yet being almost as light as air.

Whatever the biology, if the blood is molecular acid then the body must be fundamentally different from the usual human form. Maybe the acid is only created by injuries – that is, two substances are kept apart, but if the skin is cut they mix and create the acid. Or maybe the body makes use of the acid through some very unusual reactions. Either way, a low density body seems possible. As far as I know the aliens require a host in order to grow, which suggests that the final form may be extremely unusual: otherwise, why not just grow on its own using regular food? But my guess is that creating the final alien form requires all the complexity of a regular body to feed it, much in the same way that an electronic brain requires a biological brain to create it, but once created it can link an entire planet and do things that a biological brain cannot even imagine.

Just thinking aloud!

The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

Personally, I liked the idea of it being a fossilized creature that was also part of the chair. I think Dallas thought it was a fossil and that's where my imagination went. 

I would have just liked to see it as a fleshed out version of what Dallas found- basically like BD's pics with a trunk of some kind. 

No matter what anyone thinks, it also leads to the inevitable mystery of the chest burster, its burning into the floor etc...

  If drawing the required mass so rapidly from inside their host, Kane should have been feeling pain a lot earlier and an autopsy on Ledward should have shown more internal mass missing too.

would probably releases a form of pain killer while gestating before its born

I think both of these are good points. And lets not forget a couple other things. Kane, having been feeding a rapidly growing parasite should have looked even weaker than he appeared and should have had difficulty breathing far earlier from having his lung capacity diminished so much. 

Interestingly, as the buster grew, the host should have had more trouble supplying oxygenated blood as the creature grew because of its own growth. By the time it was ready to burst, Kane's entire cardiovascular system should have cut off all blood/oxygen to the brain and he should have just collapsed instead of thrashing around. Oh well- still gotta love that iconic scene!

When looking at what the Space Jockey would be if it was a Skeleton, well a Mummy of a Organism, then the Concepts (by Daryl Joyce) above as in 1/2 are Pretty Accurate and i would say that IF we looked at the Snorkel as being a Apparatus and so if we removed this from those Concepts then i think what those Designs by Daryl Joyce show is something that i could imagine a Space Jockey to look like if we assume the Head was a SKULL and not Helmet.

If we IGNORE the Snorkel/Hose then they do look a bit like some of the Fifield Concepts.  Particularly if we COMBINE the 5+6 Concepts then we get close, add some Trunk/Snorkel to a Combination of those TWO and i think you would NOT be too FAR off what Daryl Joyce had done.

So i like his Concepts/Fan Art, i think they could work if this kind of Design lacked the TRUNK and it was inside a Space Suit with a Mask/Trunk that attached the Suit to the Face of this Organism. Especially Image 1

I would add the Neomorph seems Superior to me as far as Procreation, if you could Genetically Engineer a Neomorph to gain some more Traits that would make it Tougher and Stronger i would see the Xenomorph as Inferior.

We dont see the Neomorph as having Acid Blood which is a Advantage for the Xenomorph.

Which i Forgot... i think its likely the Xenomorph when ready to Chest Burst may release some Acid to Weaken the Chest Wall to make for a Easier Chest Bursting.

Well they are Totally Alien and Made Up Organisms/Parasites so some Science goes out the Window.

I am not sure if there is any Material that Details the Chest Buster and its Process, i have not read the Weyland Yutani Report so i am not sure how much information is given in that Book.

The Chest Buster Embryo is something that gets Changed a bit in some Movies, such as Gestation Time etc, in ALIEN the X-ray seemed to show a Black Mass and not really any Embryo but this was at a Earlier Stage.  This kind of Fits in with Alien Covenant and the Neomorph Infection (Mass/Cloud of Tiny Parasites that then go on to Create the Embryo that Grows).

But from ALIENS on wards it seemed to be the Status Quo that some kind of Embryo was Implanted.  

The Franchise would seem to show that the Face Hugger would implant something, be it Embryo or a Tiny Parasites/Pathogen that would Form to a Embryo, the Face Hugger seemed to keep the Host Alive by Acting as some kind of External Lungs.

As the SEED if you would Gestates, we assume it is Obtaining some DNA from somewhere which it Encodes into its Genetic Make Up to take Traits from the Organism, but it also would have to take some Nutrients from the Host. It is likely the Embryo gains Nutrients from the Lining of the Lungs like a Normal Embryo would from the Endometrium of a Uterus, before at a Certain Stage (after the Face Hugger disconnects its Breathing Apparatus from Supplying the Bronchus) it can maybe Connect to the Blood Supply that goes to the Heart

I think it likely releases some Immune Suppressant too so that the Body does not Reject or Attack the developing Embryo as well as Enzymes or similar that effect the Nervous System so the Host can-not feel anything Growing inside.

Alien Covenant confuses things because of HOW QUICK the Gestation seemed and also with Lopes infection the Face Hugger was not required to be Attached in order to have any EFFECT on the Embryo.

The Neomorph seemed a WHOLE different Kettle of Fish we can only Speculate that the Nano Parasites either only Needed ONE to connect to a Blood/Nutrient Supply in a Host and Grow (Cell Multiply) from this (or inject its Payload that begins the Cell Production/Multiplication) or if the Parasites would Clump together and Join like Cell Multiplication. 

Again the Parasite being able to Take Nutrients to Grow and DNA at a Super Accelerated Pace.

Ha Ha Welcome aboard and maybe thats a Good Idea ;)

I would kinda be a Double if this was a Engineer ;)

Obviously this Engineer has Stolen the Green Crystal off the ALTAR and that Trilobite is trying to get it back ;)

from my understanding the chestburster feeds on its hosts blood supply and would probably releases a form of pain killer while gestating before its born

I think we Cant really be taking things too Literally, but this is the Problem Caused by going for the Chariots of the Gods type of Plot.  I would assume the Plot was NOT trying to put too much Emphasis on any Particular Mythos or Religion and so we have to Try and look at any Common Themes within them.  However some could look at the 2000 Years ago Date, and Various Christian Elements within Prometheus and Conclude that Christ had to be a Important Factor.

When looking at the Pharaoh Heads they are Elongated and some of the Concept Work for the Engineers had more Elongated Heads so you could wonder was there some Engineers/Visitors with Elongated Heads?

The Prometheus Engineers had a Slight Elongation but they was more of a Protrusion than Elongation.  Maybe some Engineers are Different and have Elongated Heads?

Or maybe they just wore Head Accessories and the like that gave the Impression they had Elongated Heads, and so Ancient Mankind then assumed without such Head-wear they would have a Elongated Skull?

Also a lot of Ancient Depictions and Art do tend to Exaggerate things so for instance a 8ft Person could be Drawn or Depicted as being FAR larger than 8ft.  some Ancient Cultures also Depict persons in Power, Royalty or would be Gods as being TALLER than a Normal Person as a way to Indicate their Higher Status.

I think when looking at our Engineers it could be that they would COME and GO at Certain Intervals and so they may come and STAY and Teach us Certain Things for a Number of Years and then they would Leave and Return Hundreds of Years Latter.

It could be that at ONE point when they was away for a Few Hundred Years they came back and saw that SOME cultures had Started to Develop their own Rules, Rituals etc that the Engineers saw as Concerning and the Roman Empire indeed could be ONE of those Civilizations.

The Egyptian Pharaohs could be Engineers or a Hybrid so sort of Demi-God/Engineers who are in Effect the Emissaries on the Engineers behalf who are Tasked to Maintain what the Engineers want from us and how we should be Governed etc.

If we accept this, and see how the Roman Empire had Influenced many Cultures with their Quest for Domination and Enforcing their Ways on the Various Civilizations they came into Contact with and Conquered, then INDEED you could bet the Engineers would NOT be Pleased ;)

 @BigDave: OMG, Ice Warrior and Otto Dix Invalid rolled into one;)

@BigDave: Is there something way bigger our ancestors might have done beyond the crucifixion of Christ that might have had the Engineers incensed enough to drop barrels of death and shit on us?  Given the shape of pharaoh heads being akin to the xenomorph, might it be the Roman conquest of Egypt? Or something else? 

Above is as Much as i have seen of the Master Narrative, if anyone has the Full Version or has a Better Idea what the Missing Words are then feel free to post ;)

I will add the Problem with Humanity would seem to be something that they became Concerned with and Decided they Needed to Create something to DESTROY us with.

I think we should not just look at this as purely being that we KILLED a Space Jesus though ;)

Creation, Sub-Creation, allowing or Creating something to become Sentient, and Procreate can Potentially be a Problem when this Creation does-not view its Creators as Superior or see the Need to Worship and Follow the Rules set by their Creators.

These Themes apply to Multiple Layers, and i think The Problem of Humanity is one of those Layers.

If we take WALTER is he a Concern?  Maybe NOT.. but if the Walter Models can become Sentient, have own Ambitions, Feelings/Emotions like David then that could be a Problem.... then what if the Androids could then Procreate (even if thats to MASS PRODUCE many in Factories).  This would become for us "The Problem of Synthetics" and so i think if we go the Level Back to Engineers/Humans then the The Problem of Synthetics for us is the same as The Problem of Humanity for the Engineers.

I think that may be one of the MILLION $$$$ Questions ;)

Alien 01: Master Narrative was the Pitch that Jon Spaights made that then Evolved to his Drafts, which include Alien Engineers and Alien Genesis, which then got Quite a Re-Write when Damian Lindeloff came aboard.

The Alien 01: Master Narrative i think could have Held Many Answers, Sadly i dont think its Available anywhere. We only had a Glimpse of some Pages from the Furious Gods Documentary.

I think we need to LOOK at what Little we got and apply it to what we saw in Prometheus. 

So in the Master Narrative these Engineers were likely Very similar to Mankind at some point, they had over MILLIONS of years at least, Evolved as far as Technology, Philosophy where some things became more Important to them than some Cultural/Society Norms.  These Engineers had Advanced Themselves Genetically and NOW they Live for Thousands of Years but they had also became Sterile.

Not Satisfied with this Level of Evolution, they likely Strive to be more, to become Immortal as they are Mortal After-all.  And so while they are Trying to Discover ways to Further Evolve themselves to some Higher State, they had Created Mankind.

They had Nurtured, Evolved our Species, Taught us Gradually many things, One Day in the Hope that ONCE the Engineers had Found their Godhead (Divinity) then Mankind could Inherit what they had Left behind and maybe ONE day when Worthy we could attain the same Status as them.

I would say that while Mankind Started to Learn Fast from our Creators, our Creators had Reached a Limit to how FAR they can Pursue becoming Gods/Divine as far as Attaining some kind of True Immortality.

While they Struggle to take to that Next Stage of Evolution, they maybe saw that Mankind was becoming Sentient, Realizing its their Creators Technology and Knowledge that ONLY makes them really GODS.

Once Mankind is able to Learn all of their Secrets then in Time we would Advance just like them.  (Imagine the Medical Advancements in Thousands of Years Time, would we be Confined to Living for 90-100 Years in say 5'000 Years Time?)  And so if a Species has these Secrets NOW and we Gain Them, then we could reach such Levels that would take us Thousands of Years within Hundreds.

So if the Engineers could No-Longer Procreate, and Mankind can in Great Numbers and we are becoming Sentient, and yet the Engineers have attained the Limits of Evolution, it is LIKELY they would FEAR that we would Eventually Overthrow them and Become the New Gods.

A King has his Reign....then he DIES.

And so in PART this is what the Problem of Humanity would be in Context to the Master Narrative, i would add However that this is only Interpretation and Speculation based on the Master Narrative Plot.

The Engineers Plot has likely Changed quite a bit in that Context, but i think my Reply does Apply quite  a lot to our Prequel Engineers.

@Thoughts_Dreams

Certainly the Occupant does-not have to be Human looking, i made this Image for a Topic on here Quite some time ago.

The Possibilities are kind of Endless to what a Alien Organism inside of a Space Suit could look like, i would like to think it best to USE something that we can make some Connection to the Xenomorph and Ancestry though, or Certainly some Unused Concepts from the Franchise or HR Gigers Work.

The Image i Posted in the OT was one of the Concepts for Fifield that has a similar Body Proportions to a Space Jockey (or so it appeared)  and aside from the Read or the Head which is a Bit Pointed, i think it would PASS as the Space Jockey, in the Image i also had the Cryo-Sleep Engineer, to show the Snorkel could be some Contraption that would Attach and FUSE with the Wearer and the Suit could be just as the Engineers  Cry-Sleep/Pressure Suits.

Like HR Gigers Necronom 7

We see some kind of Helmet/Mask that does-not Enclose the Entire Head, with Typical HR Giger style this Mask looks like its Attached/Fused with the Wearer.

So what i am saying is as with the OT is that maybe the Space Jockey Head is the Skeletal Remains of some Organism with a Elongated Head but the Snorkel is some Bio-Mechanical Apparatus that attaches to the Organisms Face and this Connects to the Suit that then Connects to the Chair.

The Occupant could be something thats NOT really the same as a Engineer or Human.

@hox

Certainly i think when we look back to when we First Saw the Space Jockey (for those who see ALIEN before the Prequels) it was Bizarre, so thinking that this PILOT was a Slave to the Ship, that he is Permanently a Prisoner of the Ship is something that some of Wonder before, and i think this is what James Cameron felt about the Space Jockey.

Trying to Imagine that this Pilot was Part of the Ship, that he was Enslaved or has some kind of Symbiotic Relationship is something that more Bizarre than a Bi-Pedal Organism/Entity that can come and go from the Chair at Will.

The Space Jockey had gone through some Evolution from Inception, starting off as being the Skeletal Remains of a Organism that is NOT very Human looking, who just Happened to Fall Victim to the ALIEN just as the Human Crew that Many Many years latter suffered the Same Fate.

This Dead Pilot having a Few Designs that were Nothing like a Human, Until RS had came across HR Gigers work and Necronom V

Ridley Scott liked the look of the Being that was like Riding on the Back of the Feminine Humanoid Figure (which inspired the Xenomorph in part).

The thing that RS did like was that it seemed this Being was Fused with what he saw as a Chair and he was SOLD on this idea for the Pilot and his Pilot Chair.  And so YES the idea of the Space Jockey being something that is FUSED to the Chair for Eternity is something that Originally seemed to be what they was going for.

This Necronom V was used as the idea for the Alien Pilot Species and it was drawn in some Ridleygrams.... but then they got HR Giger to come up with a Concept that was based on that and this is when we got the Space Jockey that we ENDED UP with.

HR Giger also doing some Concepts such as Face Huggers, and a Mural and these seem to depict Space Suits that had a somewhat Familiar Look to the Space Jockey, the Occupants were BALD Humanoids.. so this was something that HR Giger had drawn out, but from his Concepts you cant HELP but think these depicted some Species that were Enslaved to whoever had Created the Ship/Xenomorph.

I think before we got to Alien Covenant, then the Space Jockey was Ancient and so it could have been Explored as another Species, a Bio-mechanically Entity and indeed Certainly something that has become and has been at ONE with the Ship.... where we could then Speculate the Engineers had merely Reverse Engineered the Technology.

Alien Covenant makes it more difficult because it appears we must Accept (but its Subject to Change) that there is NO crashed Derelict or its Pilot as of the Time-Line that Alien Covenant had taken place...

This does not mean the Derelict cant be Introduced as a Incoming Ship, or that its Occupant is David, a Human or any kind of Engineer we have so far seen.

It could be a Space Suit with a not-so Human looking Occupant or a Totally Bio-Mechanical Construct, but i would assume they would be revealed to be Bi-Pedal and can Enter and Leave the Pilot Chair but they become as ONE while they are Connected.

Certainly would have been interesting in see how their WHOLE Society and Culture is RAN, and from these we could look at our History and what Differences we had and when.

When Chris Seagers compared the Hall of Heads to the Hierarchy, we have to assume these Statues represent like the Founders of the Ways of the Engineers, so they would have been the ones who had Set and Governed the Ways and Knowledge and so WHILE they may be gone, their Ways are likely Still Stored in that Cathedral on those Scrolls.  Much like how Abrahamic Religions would have their Books that keep the Ways of their Religion to be Taught and Passed on.

We can only Speculate on what those Hall of Heads guys looked like, as i would Assume they are LONG GONE, if they are NOT then surely they must be somewhat Divine or have Achieved some kind of Psychical Immortality which i doubt.

We cant really say if they are/were Vastly Taller, they could even be SMALLER than our Engineers.  It seems the Planet 4 Engineers would Vary quite a bit in Height, it appears they could be about 25% Taller than Humans and so maybe those Engineers can Range from 6-9ft

The LV-223/Prometheus Engineers had more of a Enigmatic look to them, they were like a Adonis Marble Statue of sorts, it could be that these Engineers are a Genetic Experiment/Upgrade and so they are more likely to be the Same as the Genetically Created Slaves in this Movie from 2016  called 2307: Winter's Dream/Solider 

"They are interesting but they could also introduce something that is farther away from humans"

I think that could work, as i had said by Adding another Layer to the Cake but we can only Imagine how FAR away from Humans these may look.  I am sure there are a Number of Plots you could use to Introduce some other Hierarchy above the Engineers.

Do they have to be a Organism?  What if the Higher Creators are Synthetic, well some kind of A.I but it could be that they was NOT always that way, but they Transcended themselves PAST the use of a Mortal Body... maybe they want Bodies Back?

This seems NOT too FAR from what Jon Spaights had as the Back Ground Plot when he pitched his Idea for a Prequel which had then gone through a Evolutionary Process until we arrived at Prometheus.

YEAH!!!!!

YEAH!!!!!

Ingeniero: I like that they used the Trilobite as a precursor to the facehugger. Compare it to how some birds have evolved from the dinosaurs. To me it looked like a more clumsy facehugger which is totally okay, I still wonder how it is able to move. Maybe they would have used something similar to it in another movie, I do not know but maybe they can be used in some comic book or something.

I am not sure about how this fits with the topic but it was about the hierarchy. I think that it would be interesting to see something about their society. Maybe they have something like priests, guards, doctors, and so on, each that has its purpose in their society.

If their society is hierarchical, then in some way those high up could also physically be taller to show strength so that could show that strength was something that the Engineers found important. Maybe this is a bit dumb but I just thought about that.

Sometimes practical effects work and sometimes they are needed. In this case I think that they should have been used because the Engineers should have looked more intimidating. Unfortunately what we got were some people that looked like humans with white face-paint which I think was a disappointment. They should have looked closer to the one in Prometheus simply because that looked better.

They are interesting but they could also introduce something that is farther away from humans because it could bring some needed mystery especially if they will go with the effed up idea that David created the monster. More Engineers would be nice and to see some about them but to have more mystery about them now that they have messed with the Xeno as a result of a bored robot.

That has been a mystery for so long so no matter what you do you will disappoint some people. How ever, something could be to have something that is above the Engineer sin the hierarchy to have as the Space Jockey, I am thinking about how disappointing the Planet 4 ones were and even if I found the one in Prometheus to be interesting what we saw in Alien Covenant made me wish that the SJ would be someone higher up in the hierarchy.

Maybe something more Alien than an Engineer could work. I am thinking about the Orchs in Lord of the Rings trilogy, not to say that you need to copy that but they look a bit human still different. The worst case scenario is to have David as the Space Jockey, or a human so if that is their plan then they should not make another prequel at all because the situation is bad enough as it is.

When we look at the SJ and compare it to the Engineers I think that there is a connection there. I think that having something above the Engineers could be a way to go if they will do another movie at all. Sorry but I do not think that that David should have anything to do with it at all, I am tired of that. You have had two movies where David has a big role and at least the second did not do too well so it would be foolish to have another movie that is about him, I am not interested in that but they could expand on the Engineers.

@BigDave,

I think that the HR Giger Aesthetic of Bio-Mechanical is what made ALIEN what it was, and i think we can only Hope the Space Jockey is such a Bio-Mechanical Entity but maybe we shall never find out. The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

My own feelings are that embracing an Engineer in a chair does a disservice to Giger. Many of his paintings depict “creatures” that are bonded with their environment. The Giger print hanging on my wall, for example, shows a woman (of sorts) mechanically bonded to scuba gear, her mouth invaded by an oxygen tube. Some of her constraints blend into her body.

To a degree, this is successfully observed in the suits worn by the Engineers themselves: they blend seamlessly into the Engineer’s skin. I’m fine with that - very Giger-esque. But where I have total disappointment is the notion that the original SJ was just an Engineer (or similar) that just hopped into the chair. Even my cat can tell that the SJ meshes into the chair, bonded to it. Constrained. Trapped. Consumed. An integral part of the terrifying and alien whole.

Some still would like to see it as a Skeleton of some being and while it may not look like a Traditional Skeleton, we are talking a ALIEN Species and so we CANT assume their Skeletal Structure would be the Same as Organism on Earth.

Dead right. Our skeletons help us to move around. The SJ may or may not have had the ability to move around, but he ends up being part of a machine. He doesn’t need to run around, and he’s just fused with it. However it happened, and whatever its ultimate purpose, it’s alien and weird so we don’t need to worry too much about the details.

But as the ALIEN Franchise was Very ALIEN and there appeared to be a Connection between the Bio-Mechanical Ship and the Xenomorph, then WHY cant the Pilot be Bio-Mechanical?

Why not indeed.

I guess the only Problem then would be to ASK how can a Bio-Mechanical being become Chest Busted?

That’s a good question because you first have to know what an alien biomechanical being actually is. Let’s say, for example, that the ship itself was constructed (or grown) organically. Yay, that’s what super-advanced aliens can do. Did the chair and SJ grow together? Was the SJ grown separately and ultimately fused with chair? Can he ever leave? Is he happy with his life? Is he “fed” by the ship in a similar same way that a facehugger feeds its victim? Whatever, its organic history could likely be its Achilles Heel, and I imagine it could be chest bursted quite easily. Adding a bit of horror, let’s just suggest for a moment that a regular facehugger could penetrate a host by sucking out an eyeball and inserting its proboscis there. That would be a bit of fun, wouldn’t it. Not exactly Disney material, though!

The problem then is that it’s strongly implied in Prometheus that the SJ was something that just hopped in to do the piloting. As you know, I’m not happy with that idea for ideological reasons. One way out of that conundrum would be for the Engineers to be revealed as a race that revere a pre-existing civilisation/technology, and they emulate their forms. Or, here’s another scenario...

The ship slowly formed, and attained a size where it could detach itself from its umbilicus. The pilot chair grew and, with it, the pilot bud grew in size. Gradually becoming aware of its identity, environment and purpose, it suddenly sensed pain as it detected an invading creature hacking at its limbs. Screaming in terror, the young pilot could do nothing as it was excised from its mother. It twitched and withered on the cold platform as a bipedal form took its place. With no concern and utter alacrity, the Engineer powered up the navigation...

@Ignorantguy

I have not played the New Doom Games, i dont own a Latest Games Console, and my PC is about 10 Years or so OLD... i was a BIG Fan of the Original Doom Series though ;)

Looking Quickly into the Maykrs then i can see a bit of a Connection as far as to Angels etc.... they look at Quick Glimpse like say what Robocop 2014 was

As far as taking some Parts of a Organism but have the Rest of their Body being Mechanical/Synthetic...  again such a Future could await Humans in Thousands of Years Time as a way to try and Gain more Life!  But thats a different Subject all together.

I think that the HR Giger Aesthetic of Bio-Mechanical is what made ALIEN what it was, and i think we can only Hope the Space Jockey is such a Bio-Mechanical Entity but maybe we shall never find out.

@Hox

To be fair i think some Parts of the Ribs do look like Skeletal, but on Closer Inspection they look ODD for Ribs.

I have used the Image above to Highlight what i mean, when i refer back to the Concept Work and look at these Details it seems that what we have is either a Space Suit or a Totally Alien Bio-mechanical being like the Xenomorph.

I understand for some its a Disappointment to try and Reveal this as a Space Suit, and Certainly to have Humanoid Occupants.   I mean NO kind of Disrespect to whatever anyone else wishes to believe or hopes for the Truth to be.    We have covered the Space Jockey a bit as far as the Skeleton Debate, and while Dallas seems to indicate it is, we have to Remember that he is NO expert (but the Dialog was added for a reason).

The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

Some still would like to see it as a Skeleton of some being and while it may not look like a Traditional Skeleton, we are talking a ALIEN Species and so we CANT assume their Skeletal Structure would be the Same as Organism on Earth.

So a Skeleton is something that while Unlikely, its something that CANT be 100% Ruled Out as we have YET to reach any Conclusion.

Above are TWO of the Space Jockey in the Flesh interpretations from the Older Comics, there was a Third but that was Comical.   So by all means WHY NOT as far as a Skeleton.

But as the ALIEN Franchise was Very ALIEN and there appeared to be a Connection between the Bio-Mechanical Ship and the Xenomorph, then WHY cant the Pilot be Bio-Mechanical?

I guess the only Problem then would be to ASK how can a Bio-Mechanical being become Chest Busted?

@Leto

Certainly the Intentions was to give us 12-15ft Engineers, but RS at Production had decided to Downgrade this and attempt to use Camera Angles to Allude to a 8ft Engineer, the Actual Cryo-Pods would only Accommodate up to a 8ft Tall being.  I think if we had a Continuation then we would have to Accept our Engineers as being a Average of 7.5ft Tall as a Race when not in the Space Suit.   But as NOT every Human is about 5ft10, then there could be 9-10ft Engineers as the Extreme of their Species, which would appear Taller when Space Suited and the Final Piece of the Puzzle is (as Dallas said) the Pilot could have Grown out of the Chair.

"strange biomechanical pilots"

I think Certainly that could be a Option, the more i had studied the Space Jockey over the Years (prior to Prometheus) it seemed to be more of some Space Suit or a Truly Bio-mechanical Being like the Xenomorphs are for example.

The Engineers Certainly could be looked at as being a Evolved Humanoid Species, who knows what Mankind could look like in say 10'000 Years.... but maybe we would be more like David by then ;)

I think while there are some Differences between the Space Jockey/Derelict and the Engineers/Juggernaught although the Intention seems they are the SAME... any slight Inconsistencies allows for Deniability by the Fans, and allows for things to be Changed.

If what we got was the SHIPS looked Aesthetically more Closer, and the SUITS likewise and we saw the Engineers as 10-12ft on our Screens and the Dead Engineer Suits became a Bone-Like Color or getting there..... then there would be more Concrete Proof and us having to Accept that they are the Space Jockey.

@Ignorantguy

David behind the Space Jockey is maybe a likely Scenario, Certainly as far as if he could either Transfer his Soul to a NEW Body/Being or he had Created the Space Jockey, i would think that these are a Possible Path that RS would have taken us.   As far as it just being Regular David inside the Space Suit then again this CANT be ruled out.

We could expect that it would be a Engineer, we could HOPE that its either a Newly Introduced Species or Taller Engineer/Humanoids, i think its maybe Clutching at Straws to be the Skeleton of some Species.

But if we got a Continuation it seems the Path to ALIEN is a Chronological One and as the Themes Explored are about Sub-Creation and Evolution and also RS seems interested in A.I then i do think that we could have ENDED up being shown that the Space Jockey as a Creation/Organism is something that has NOT yet been Created as of Alien Covenant.

Not what i would have liked, but i am one who can take that Bitter Pill and Swallow it, hopefully there be a Spoon Full of Sugar to help that Medicine go down ;)

@BigDave, I’m not sure why you say on close inspection the rib cage doesn’t look like a skeleton. When Dallas peers over the SJ body and says the bones are bent outward, it sure looks like a ruptured skeleton to me. The broken jagged bone ends look like something you’d find in a butcher’s shop. I mean, tell me these aren't bones!

@BigDave I still believe that the Space Jockey in the end would have been David, sorry. That makes thematic sense even if you don't like the idea.

Have you seen Doom Eternal? In it that they introduced the Maykrs and they have a SJ flavor to them (biomechanical and the rest). And the new Icon of Sin... 

I like the humanoid Engineers (both from Prometheus). They look like ideal humans. Or future humans - Engineers are different from humans in the same way that humans are different from apes.

But yes - the main point is the height. Engineers should be higher. I understand that Ridley wanted to make Engineers look like humans for a story point. But I don't see any "story" reasons why they should be roughly equal to the size of us. Most likely this is a technical aspect, but not the story.

Maybe Ridley did not want to mess with the angles of filming. Or didn’t want to use CG (I respect that). Or in the script already was a moment in which the Engineer went on the human ship. Therefore, for the sake of this scene, he had to adjust the height.

Back to the topic. About Space Jockey.

I want to see them, as strange biomechanical pilots, who grow out of the chair, but I feel that showing these creatures will look like a kind of "backtracking". A recognition that they screwed up.

It seems like - "Well, we have Engineers who look like humans, but their spacesuits look like Space Jockey. And now we are introducing the Space Jockey, who look like Engineer's spacesuit, which look like Space Jokey... Well, a true Space Jockey from Alien. It's not the suite."

I feel that this will be an even bigger confusing mess. Especially if Ridley says: "Ho ho ho! I want to leave some mystery and will not explain anything to you."

P.S. Nice picture with marked details of Space Jockey.

I think trying to get back to the OT as far as what you may be referring to, seems to be that One Species/Faction of Engineers had Created us for Good Intentions while another had intended to Destroy us with Different.

If this is to suggest that our LV-223 Guys had intended to Destroy us because we KILLED the Emissary and they was UPSET at the Civilization/Culture of the Roman Empire and maybe then WHY does Planet 4 look so much like such a Culture?

This is a Rabbit Hole that has a number of ways we can look at it.  For example had the Planet 4 Engineers had Influenced our Roman Culture, was this against what the Sacrificial Engineer and LV-223 Engineers had intended?

You would have to Wonder WHY had the Planet 4 Engineers not been Punished/Destroyed?

Maybe they knew the LV-223 Engineers was not pleased with how Mankind had became, and maybe they too Feared they would be on the Receiving End of the LV-223 Engineers Wraith... and so they Intervened in Sabotage or Similar to Eradicate the LV-223 Engineers causing the Outbreak?

A Problem with this is that the Planet 4 Engineers did-not look Concerned about a Incoming Juggernaut but its seemed the Ship was Familiar to them but they had NO Fear, so they either must have been Confident the LV-223 Engineers are all DEAD and these Juggernauts are not Confined to LV-223 or that both sets of Engineers may be on the same Page?

You could look at it as though they (LV-223 Engineers) decided to GIVE UP on Mankind, but they had taken some Humans to Planet 4 and so Created/Interbred what we see as the Planet 4 Engineers and left Earth to ROT as without their HELP then Mankind would be STUCK on Earth.

The Problem is that RS and Seagers had indicated that Planet 4 would Predate Mankind and so the Architecture on Earth including the Roman Empires are Inspired/Taught by those who had Constructed the Buildings on Planet 4

I guess we could look at the Engineers on LV-223 as being tasked as being Watchers, but they decided instead to Interfere and Confidence Mankind to follow their Ways, and so they wished to Influence Mankind in ways that the Hierarchy of the Engineers would have Forbidden...   But just as the LV-223 Engineers decide to go against their Hierarchy wishes... they discover that Mankind become Rebellious and go against the Watchers (LV-223 Engineers) intentions and ways, and so they decided to REPLACE US with something Else.

The BIG Problem with such Ideas as i have discussed in this REPLY is the Location of Planet 4 in relation to Earth and LV-223, had the Engineers Home-World/Planet 4 been Located FAR FAR FAR away like 1000's of Light Years, then Scenarios as i put in this TOPIC could be more Plausible.

I would Safely Assume that if RS was not Forced to make Alien Covenant a Movie that would Directly begin to Connect to ALIEN and introduce the Xenomorph...  then i would assume that a Prometheus 2 would have taken David and Dr Shaw to a WORLD that is FAR beyond the Reach of Human Technology even as of ALIENS.

They seem LESS-SO by Virtue of Planet 4 and LV-223 being on the Door Step to Each other and a Stone Throw away from Earth in Terms of Engineers Technology.

Which would have left LESS of a Restraint and more Flexibility on Expanded the Engineers Agenda and History.

"So they made new models - the Planet 4 beings: more submissive, obedient etc"

This Certainly was a Conclusion you could draw, One that i was a Little Drawn too, until some of the Commentary Came out, but it seems those Planet 4 Engineers could Predate Mankind.

Maybe we was a latter Experiment, that Failed when we became a Race that Left Alone would Develop to have our own Views and Cultures and ways than KEEP to what the Engineers wanted from us.

I cant seem to Find where i had read that either Ridley Scott or Chris Seagers had referred to the Planet 4 Engineers as the Originals...  maybe i was mistaken?

It certainly is the case the Hall of Heads guys predate us, but thats not to say they are the SAME as those Planet 4 Guys, and so in FUTURE it could be revealed on Screen that the Planet 4 Engineers are a Hybrid of Humans and Engineers and that WE do Predate those Planet 4 beings...

I will add a lot of this Subject may end up being similar to what has been discussed in other Subjects like THIS ONE of yours Dark Nebula we have had Plenty of Subjects on the Engineers over the years.

The Main Purpose for this Topic (but i welcome things that go Off Topic a bit) was to discus the Hierarchy Order of the Engineers and we have to ASSUME that the Hall of Heads represents this, so its a case of are we  PLEASED about that?  

Should those Hall of Heads guys be revealed as being much Taller?  The Space Jockey is one Dilemma that Bugs some Fans, Particularly the Height, but we have debated this quite a LOT over the years.

Alas they was supposed to be 12-15ft, but RS was against using Special Effects and wanted to be as Practical as Possible.  This does-not rule out a Introduction to a Taller Race of Engineers, or even a Engineered Giants.

We have discussed such things before however... the Scale Difference for our Space Jockey could be explored by introducing another Species/Modification of a Humanoid.

We could maybe even introduce the SJ as another Species all together.   I think when looking at Prometheus and to a degree Alien Covenant what we see (and it applies to Various Mythos/Religion) is a Sub-Creation, Creator and Rebellion Narrative.

Engineers Create Mankind, who Create David, who potentially could Genetically Engineer the Human Embryo's to Create his Own Humanoids... and each time there is a Rebellion of Creation against their Creator.

And so the Origins of the Engineers could be from a Enslaved, maybe Created Species that are a USED by another Species until a Time of a Rebellion and Down Fall of this other NOW FALLEN Species from Millions and Millions of Years or Much Longer in the Past.

Such a Species could be FAR LESS Human looking if they chose to introduce such a Layer to the Cake.

I am Fine with the Engineers, and having to accept our Space Jockey is a Engineer... i would however like to see another Layer of the Cake that is NOT SO as Human as Mankind and Engineers.... be this Layer Pre-Exists the Engineers or is something that say David would Create.

I dont think we need to go too ALIEN with it though ;)

"I have long speculated that the hall of heads was some kind of Parliament"

That certainly is a likely Prospect, what we have to remember is some comments that RS has said about the Engineers.   It seems indicated that Earth is surely not the only World they had Seeded and Manipulated Life in their own Image.   They (RS and Seagers) had indicated the Engineers are NOT a Race but a Civilization, and RS has said before that just because Mankind has Various Races, then WHY cant the Engineers.

As you noted Dark Nebula some of the Hall of Heads Engineers do have some differences like how Various Races of Humans on Earth have some differences as far as Eyes, Nose, Bone Structure etc.  The image i posted above is interesting because Number 3 looks quite different, Number 4 a little too, they have somewhat of that Star Trek Bajoran look to them.  So its possible there are Differences to the Scale of in Star Trek as far as some Humanoid Races, for example Vulcans look Very Human.

But then Humans can also look different to each other especially some Races seem to have more Variety in Appearances between themselves.

I think however if we bring it back to the Hall of Heads then its likely these GUYS are Long Gone, unless they have Found a Secret to Extend their Lives, or they as Founders and Ancient have a Longer Life Span than the more Modern Engineers.  But it would seem likely those beings who had those Statues Made in their Image are GONE if we assume these Statues are Many Thousands of Years Old.   But then they may-not represent individuals but Entire Different Species/Races of Engineers. 

But as RS said they are the 10 Apostles then its likely they represented 10 Individuals, but these Individuals could have some Racial Differences. 

The Whole Engineers Background could have been expanded in MANY ways with Curveballs... like they could have revealed that they came from US.. Mankind, and so that Humans Predated them many Millions of Years ago, but these Humans (from Distant Worlds) are Gone but maybe some Engineers began to Re-Create us on Earth?

Or that many Races Existed and their was some Great War of the Worlds, and at the End of this, Various Humanoid Races decided to come together and START a New World on Planet 4, in Peace and Intermixed with each other.

There are so many ways that their History and the History of Humanoid Species could have been Explored.

The Engineers are Gardeners of Space, we can assume that ONE of their Main Objectives would be to Experiment, Evolve and Engineer various types of beings in their Image and with their Mixed DNA.

The Engineers come and go to that place (Planet 4) as far as RS had said, and so its likely they either have other Worlds or they have other Worlds they have Sub-Creation like Humans on that they Visit.

Planet 4 maybe being a Genetic Stock Pool from which they Source Material to Seed/Evolve Worlds, or they do these on other Worlds until they achieve a desired Result and introduce this Species to their Gene-pool on Planet 4.

I would say these Hall of Heads are the Founders of a Culture and Ways that these Species had decided to adopt be it that they are ONE Race, or a Group of Races that had came together to FORM a NEW ORDER.

I have long speculated that the hall of heads was some kind of Parlament, but also a very old and sacred place for engineers. Looking at each stone head in the hall, I noticed that each stone head depicts a different engineer: One head depicts an engineer with wrinkled skin, raised brow ridges, high nose bridge. Another head depicts a younger engineer with raised brow ridges and a high nose bridge (similar to that of a sacrificial engineer), the other head depicts an engineer with low nose bridge and wrinkled skin, etc. You get what I mean. There are 7 stone heads in total.

The stone heads also appear in David's lab.

It seems to me that each stone head depicts an elder, and that specific elder is a representative of a race, culture of engineers. Ridley did say that the hall of head depicts elders; intellectuals, artists, wise men. So, one stone head might represent Planet 4 engineers, the other one LV-223 engineers, as for the others it remains a mystery.

As far as another species being introduced, I already pointed this out in other topics, the space jockey might just be one of the LV-223 engineers, genetically enlarged and enhanced for specific jobs. I drew my own depiction of SJ, so I will show it here:

I apologize for my Long Posts ;)  its hard to keep things short on some subjects and this certainly is one of them.

I think regarding the Space Jesus i think its something we have to NOT try and look at too Literally the Plot seems to be just as much about other Various Mythos as well as the Abrahamic Aspect.  And so i think the Emissary take on it works better.

I think its likely the Engineers may have been Disappointed with Mankind prior to the appearance of that certain Emissary and so these were sent down to TRY and Guide us back to ways that appeased the Engineers, but we instead had KILLED some of these Emissaries.

I think the Anger was more so than just the Roman Empire, i think they saw various Civilizations that were not behaving in the way the Engineer liked, they likely saw how much the Culture and Ways of Large Empires had Spread, and Felt that to simply Eradicate a Certain Continent/Empire would NOT be a way to Guarantee that the WAYS of Man that offended or threatened the Engineers would NEVER reappear again.

I think the Plot is to show that a lot of the Architecture/Constructions of Mankind are Influenced by the Engineers.  There certainly is a Aesthetic Connection to Planet 4 and some Cultures on Earth in the past like the Roman Empire.  I think maybe we have to ASSUME that this kind of Aesthetic Architecture on Planet 4 does predate those on Earth.

I think its so OPEN for debate and Speculation as to HOW FAR they influenced Mankind and IF everything that we was TAUGHT had came with the Consent of the Engineers Hierarchy.

I think in Light of this we have to maybe try and APPLY the Fall of Lucifer and Prometheus Betrayal to the Plot, more so than any kind of Space Jesus plot as per say.

So it becomes a Question of WHO is Prometheus more so than who was Christ in the overall Plot.  And this is a Question where we dont have a Definite Answer, but i think we can assume by Virtue of the Prometheus Poster etc that the BIG HEAD has something to do with this.

Some think it represents the Sacrifice of the Sacrificial Engineer and so he is Prometheus but this would not FIT with a lot of the Prometheus Mythos and so i think we cant look to LITERAL and so as with the case of a Space Jesus so to Speak, the intention (well comment) by RS could suggest he was NOT the only Emissary and so when looking at other Single Figures such as Prometheus it could be applied that its not a SINGLE Figure but a it represents a Group.

So this Raises the Question of are the LV-223 Engineers the Prometheus, was Mankind Created without the Consent of the other Engineers, or was we designed for a Purpose but the Promethean Engineers had Taught us more than we was Intended, was this done for Good, or to Spite their own Hierarchy?

I think there are Many ways this can be Interpreted and Speculated, and its something i am sure we would have liked to had seen EXPLORED... which with AC we sadly got No Answers.

I will say there is quite a Connection Between Figures such as Lucifer, Prometheus and Enki likewise maybe between GOD/Angels, Titans/Olympians and indeed Annunaki/Igigi and i think a number of Fans may have wanted them to LOOSELY try and Expand on this in Connection to the Engineers.

When we look at these Various Figures, its a case of do we Consider that Enlil, YHWH and Zeus the GOOD GUY? and so are Enki, Lucifer and Prometheus the BAD GUYS?

You consider the Former to be the GOOD GUYS... but then if you look at the Intention for Mankind and who wants to be giving out the PUNISHMENT and Destruction then those Good Guys intentions are NOT so Good for Mankind.

The other Guys had Disobeyed the Hierarchy, but they in doing so had Enlightened Mankind... to Levels the Hierarchy had NOT intended or Forbidden.... and so maybe there is a SIMILAR kind of Connection that we could apply to the Engineers.

"due to NOT being able to settle on a single Satisfying Answer to some of the Mysteries, which the Engineers were a LARGE part of"

Great point but dude, you need to make your Comments shorter^^

Who the "good" and "bad" Engineers are is maybe a question of perspective. My point here is this:

2.000 years ago the Romans crucified Jesus. Ridley Scott didn't mention that in Prometheus explicitly (because it would be "to on the nose") but this is definitely what he had in mind. This crucifixion was obviously not for the joy of the Prometheus Engineers (which is why they tried to destroy humanity) and so they were not sympathetic to the Romans' way of life. But the AC Engineers resemble the Romans so closely that they must have been the ones who taught the Romans how to do business. And so the Prometheus and AC Engineers must be at odds with one another.

This is my point. Who is the god/Zeus/Satan/Prometheus/Annunaki/Igigi party surely is up to debate!

But maybe this is all wrong and the beings on Planet 4 are not an active player at all! David and Walter may mimic humanity and the Planet 4 beings. Like David and Walther are discussing:

"You were too human, too idiosyncratic, thinking for yourself. So they made the following models with fewer complications."

"More like machines..."

Maybe humanity resembles David - the Engineers first try: individualistic, idiosyncratic and with a mind of their own. But quickly the Engineers got scared of us. So they made new models - the Planet 4 beings: more submissive, obedient etc. and they set out to destroy their first creation - humanity.

This is my big beef with AC: You have the Planet 4 beings (Engineers? One of their creations?) right in front of your f*** nose and you learn nothing. Absolutely catastrophic decision by RS in my mind.

I think if i look more at the Question of is there Good/Bad Engineers.

Then i would say thats likely, Certainly in the Past, but if we are talking about Currently Factions that are Good and Bad then i think thats more Difficult to Conclude.  You could have a Country who you would consider are GOOD but they have people who are BAD, as well as GOOD.. this Country could Consider another as BAD, but then this BAD Country could consider the Accusing Country as BAD.

Mankind is both Good and Bad, and looking at the Engineers i would consider that they have become something thats just Neutral if you would.  But they may consider themselves Good, but others may consider them as Bad.

We had RS mention that the Engineers are Aggressive SOB's and the beings that David would encounter are FAR from Benevolent, but this does-not make them EVIL.  Sometimes there are Necessary Evils for the Greater Good (like you could consider if the ATOMIC Bombs had NOT been Dropped on Japan then in the next 5 years it would be likely MANY more Lives World Wide would have been Lost, including the Japanese).

Ridley Scott always seems to indicate the Engineers as Gardeners of Space and puts a Emphasis on Creation more than the Destruction.  He refers to the Sacrificial Act as a Benevolent one.

He calls the Planet 4 Engineers as the Civilians of the Engineers Society and the LV-223 as the Military, and YET the Sacrificial Engineer looked more like the LV-223 Engineers than Planet 4 and this maybe is NOT a Oversight.

so the Sacrificial Engineer and LV-223 Engineers appear to be the same, they appear Genetically Enhanced for their Purpose.

So they use these Adonis Specimens for Seeding but also to use for WAR... but the Juggernauts do-not look like they are WARSHIPS... they are merely a SHIP that carries Cargo that can be used as a Biological Weapon.

So if we assume that indeed they use these more Enhanced Specimens to Seed Worlds and this is what Creates Life but not Necessary Horrific Life such as the Neomorph.  Then this ACT of Self Sacrifice is seen for the Greater Good and BENEVOLENT.

The Actions of the LV-223 Engineers however is Considered to be Malevolent but is it really on the GRAND SCALE?

Provided the Planet 4 Engineers and LV-223 Engineers are on the same PAGE.. then their Actions could be Deemed as Necessary for the Greater Good and so are NOT a MALEVOLENT Race.

But when we are due to be on the receiving END of their Actions, as a Precaution to Eradicate a Threat then from our Perspective it would seem a EVIL ACT.

However Consider this.... it seems likely (as indicated by RS) that WE are NOT the only World the Engineers had Seeded and maybe Created Intelligent Life, this would be a WISE idea for the Engineers.   And so if ONE such Worlds Inhabitants are deemed Rebellious, a Threat or a Failure then to Eradicate them, and Start Again makes Sense.

We need to Remember that to the Engineers we could be Considered nothing but Chimpanzees...  so lets Consider these TWO Scenarios.

1) Scientist Mess about with the Apes and Evolve them Mentally like we saw in Planet of the Apes, and they also Evolve to be more Human as far as Dexterity (THINK about Planet of the Apes). 

2) We are Genetically trying a Bio-Weapon Virus on the Apes, and it shows signs of passing to Humans and getting out of Control. Then some Apes get loose...

If these Apes are Contained say in a Country lets say Australia, and are Considered a Mistake and Potential Threat.

Then our ONLY option could be to CULL them... it may seem Drastic but its Necessary, and we have other Apes on other Continents that are NOT effected so we are NOT exactly going to be Destroying their Entire Species.

What we do to those Apes would be Considered BAD especially for the Apes, but for the Greater Good it is Necessary and so we would NOT be considered as MALEVOLENT for this Action.

But we should then take NOTE and Learn from the Mistake or Face a Future Hubris, especially if we FAIL to CULL the Problem.   Do you learn lessons and improve SAFEGUARDS? or do you ABANDON any Future Experiments and Learn your Lesson?

THIS.... is how i think we should look at the Engineers, and in this case they may not be Considered EVIL...

We can be EVIL... we have Created David who we can see has become Evil to a Degree, yet we have Walter who we consider as NOT really Evil.... do we CULL the Synthetics, or Learn from the Mistakes of David, and hope that the Walters never suffer the same Issues.

Would Destroying the Synthetics be considered as BAD? it would if those Synthetics became Sentient like David, as far as how the Sentient Synthetics would deem such a Action.

So with the Engineers and Humanity its similar.

This HOWEVER... does not rule out that at Present of in the Past that Factions of Engineers had their own Conflicts of Interests and are deemed Good/Bad by their Agenda.. we also cant rule out that the LV-223/Prometheus Guys are to the Planet 4 Guys as the Replicants in Blade Runner are to Humans.