Comments (Page 169)

Regardless of canon and Wikis- If Ripley was about 6 feet tall, the only creatures' heights that look the most accurate are the Runner and Deacon. 

As the films show, she doesn't move with the egg sack.  She detaches.

Diesektor:

Thanks for posting this, it was interesting to see what you have written. I enjoy fan-writing since it shows how many ideas that the fan community has and how everyone have their own idea of what could have happened.

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That was interesting although the queen looks a bit ridiculous. How would she be able to move with that huge egg-sack and do not get me started about the Newborn.

It is nice to see a new thread, good work.

About the prequels, if we look at how they have turned out I wish that they should never have been released at all. They do not stand a chance against the first three.

When I am finished watching Alien the question is among others – who was the pilot and how did he get that cargo with eggs. There is a mystery there that is very interesting but that is also difficult to live up to when you try to give it an answer. The problem is that Alien itself is such a good movie so any attempt to answer the cargo will likely turn out to be a disappointment. I like the idea of the Engineers but I do not like that they have pointed to David as the eventual creator of the monster since it makes it too close to humans. While I understand the theme it becomes a disappointment from a story kind of view.

"By attempting to ANSWER in part at least the Mystery, they was NEVER going to reveal Answers that would Please everyone…"

I agree but they could sure have come up with a better answer than to show us that the monster was a result of something that we have created. I kind of understand why they did that but from a story point of view it was a huge disappointment. This is what happens when you let someone that does not understand good writing affect the story.

"That for many has NOW become a Worse kind of Secret (Revelation)."

Yeah because it is shit, crappy story writing. If this is what they thought was good writing and something that many would appreciate it has turned it into somewhat of a joke. Look, if they thought that AR was bad actually the idea that David created it makes at least certain parts of AR look better. At least it has not made important aspects of the franchise into a laughing stock but to be fair I think that AC as a whole is better than AR.

"Should it have remained a Secret?"

I think so, but since they have not finished them I would say that it could be wise to erase them from the official time-line and maybe let someone with better ideas and better writing re-make them. The probability that they will throw more crap at the franchise than the prequels have done is small.

"What kind of Ideas/Answers did you Imagine in your Mind before the Prequels?"

I am not sure but at least it was something that was far more alien than what we have been given and it was not about a stupid fucking robot. Probably that the pilot was from a sort of civilization far away that had a deadly cargo but I did not know what his mission was or how the eggs got there. So many possibilities but unfortunately they let Scott affect the story and we have what we have.

hey man, just seen this post - massive thanks from myself and teh band for posting and writing about us - if any one would like to check out teh music you can listen to us here https://www.youtube.com/user/diesektor666/videos?view_as=subscriber we have lots of tracks all with alien style theme and concept 

"The ship also produces Black Goo. Actually, that's why the Engineers catch them. Black Goo - the most important thing in the universe. The source of life"

I think something like this could have worked, especially if we never had Alien Covenant, as at this point we certainly could have Speculated that the Juggernauts are Reverse Engineered from the Derelict Ship.

There was a lot that was ALIEN about the First Movie, with ALIENS and the Queen revealed as a Egg Layer it did kind of replace the Egg Morph but thats not to say a Queen does-not make sense.

Looking at the Egg Morph and the Black Goo, then we dont really know HOW the Egg Morph happens, we know that the Xenomorph must do something to the Human Host, but we dont know the Process of this.  However when looking at the Black Goo then you could speculate the Xenomorph could Infect a Host with a substance that is similar to the Black Goo that then Re-Writes the Hosts DNA and Mutates it into a Xenomorph Egg. 

This Mural by HR Giger is Very Interesting as to me it seemed to indicate the Xenomorph is Genetically if you would connected to the Derelict, and that the SHIP would Produce some kind of WORM like Parasite that would then Evolve/Grow into a Egg.

The Substance the Engineers use in Alien Engineers are Nano-Scarabs, which are replaced with the Black Goo but at a Microbiological Level the Black Goo could be TINY Nano Worm like Parasites.

We have some indication of this in Prometheus (especially unused Props) and some work on a Earlier Version of a Prometheus Sequel.

So if they had introduced the Derelict as a more Older Ship that Produced the Parasitic Pathogen that can produce Eggs, i think that could have worked and we can speculate on WHAT is needed for the Ship to Produce the Substance in the First Place and surely come up with some Horrific and very ALIEN ways that this occurs.

But it is Extremely Unlikely we would get anything revealed like that, and we have to accept a Derelict is the same as a Juggernaught and are a Manufactured/Engineered creation of the Engineers.

I guess they could give us another LAYER above the Engineers and introduce something more Lovecraftian and Surreal but i doubt we would ever see such a thing.

I think between O'Bannon's idea and what went on in HR Gigers Mind could have given us a ALIEN/LOVECRAFT revelation of the whole Derelict, Eggs and Pilot.

But that Ship has sailed a long time ago.... with the Prequels.

Watched the Video its a Good Effort the Deacon seems to be Smaller a little and the Neomorph is a bit taller than it is.

Nice video. The Queen always seemed taller than 15'- maybe due to the huge egg sack it was attached to. For some reason, the egg sack here appears to be attached to the queen's back.

There are a FEW things missing.

Like the 10ft Genetically Engineered Predator from The Predator.

I had speculated a LONG while ago that IF the Deacon was Humanoid to a Large Degree and would thus GROW at a Rate that a Mammal would then our Deacon would like Grow to 12-15ft Ball Park when its ADULT.

We then got Fire and Stone Comics where the Concept Work seemed to indicate the Engineer Born Deacon would have Grown to become 10-12ft Tall

If we look at the Source Material.... STARBEAST

What we had was that the Xenomorph was a Juvenile Stage of a ALIEN Organism that were Ancient and Advanced somewhat.

The Space Jockey was just another unrelated Alien Race that had came across the remains of this LOST ALIEN Civilization the Egg/Spore Stage of their Life-Cycle.  This unsuspecting Giant Race had suffered the same Fate that the incoming Human Crew had suffered.

The in effect Space Jockey had decided to take some of the Eggs/Spores to their Ship for Study and became infected.

This had EVOLVED with ALIEN that the Space Jockey Race and Eggs were NOW connected. The Connection was not really shown, but Ridley Scott had indicated that the Eggs were a Biological Weapon that the Space Jockey was carrying on his Ship.... we had NO reason for WHY or WHERE he was going.

The Virtue that there was a Aesthetically Connection between the Ship and Cargo meant they had to be connected as i described in by previous Reply.   The Xenomorph either came after the Derelict Technology, or the Derelict Technology came from the Xenomorph (Re-Engineering etc) or they both were Created together.

This is all we could Conclude before the Prequels...

HR Giger however had some Interesting Comments and Thoughts on the Xenomorph and Derelict.

He seemed to indicate that the Ship was Genetically if you would Connected to the Eggs, the Ship would actually Create the Eggs.  And the Ship was likely GROWN.

He felt the Pilot was Permanently Connected to the Chair. A Slave to his Ship.

He felt the Xenomorph was a Cyborg it was Part Organic and Part Mechanical which he also claimed the Derelict was.

His other Concept works did indicate that the Space Jockey was some Humanoid Species that would Self-Sacrifice themselves to allow for the Procreation of the Xenomorph, and along with the Xenomorph being connected to the Ship in his Concepts.. this seemed to Indicate that in his MIND the Space Jockey Race are just Humanoids that would be USED to Spread the Xenomorph around the Galaxy...

For what Benefit this Humanoid Race gained was anyone's Guess.

So we never really got Answers... but when you look at Starbeast and HR Gigers ideas then i think there was a much more ALIEN and Lovecraftian Answer to the MYSTERY ;)

The Ship Producing the Eggs was interesting... exploring what it Needed to be able to do so could have been Sinister, Horrific and Lovecraftian.

But ALAS.

I think that there was many ways that the MYSTERY could have been Answered, but what we END up with is something which would NOT please everyone....  If you are NOT careful then the Answers could take away the Mystique of the Mystery.

What Prometheus had done was to begin to Answer who the Engineers were, they gave us this Chariots of the God Plot, Creation, Visitation, Knowledge and Rebellion. 

As at this TIME they felt that you did not have to Continue with Answers to ALIEN and continue about Xenomorphs and that you can LEAVE those a Mystery, with Prometheus just providing some Clues but still leaving it Ambiguous.

Prior to Prometheus what we had was this ALIEN Ship, with what we assume was the Pilot who had been Obviously Infected with the same Cargo that Kane had.

The Pilot was Fused to the Chair, like Technologically Connected and so it was Highly likely that its RACE had Created the Ship.... or the Ship was Created Specifically for the Space Jockey.

The Cargo was something that was Equally Deadly to the Space Jockey as it was any other Unsuspecting Life Form.  The Xenomorph was like a Amalgamation of Organic and Mechanical Aesthetic, which the Derelict Ship seemed to also SHARE...   Surely NOT by a Coincidence there had to be a Connection.

So there was some Connection between the Ship, the Pilot and the Cargo.   Which for me left me to Ponder (i am talking 20+ Years ago.

1) The Xenomorph Organism was a Natural Organism well something the Space Jockey had Discovered and had USED this Organism to Evolve/Create Technology from, maybe the Organism had Multiple Uses for the Space Jockey.

2) The Space Jockey Race had Created the Bio-Mechanical Ship and the Eggs are a Engineered Organism that is likely used in some kind of Conflict (Biological Warfare).

3) There is some other Race that for some reason has a USE/NEED for those Eggs and they Created the Ship and they had either Created or Enslaved the Space Jockey Race to use the Derelict Ship to Transport those Eggs... for what reason we can only Speculate...  was it for Warfare? for some Technological Reason? or for some other reason to Procreate the Organism?

For me the Shared Aesthetic was NO Coincidence, and so for me Option 1 did not seem so likely, if it was then the Space Jockey Race had been Transporting and Using the Xenomorph for Thousands maybe Millions of Years.  There was NO-WAY the Ship had recently just came across the Eggs.

So i was drawn more to Option 2 or Option 3

The Prequels did begin in Order to give us Answers but even at the Early Stage it was not so SPOON FED... at some point they decided you DID-NOT have to have Xenomorphs or even SHOW where they came from and HOW they got onto the Derelict.  They felt that discovering WHO the Space Jockey was is more Important as NO-ONE had covered them and if the Xenomorph is after all just a Engineered Bio-Weapon then surely the Space Jockey Story was more Important to tell.

What it did do is indicated some Connections that left some Mystery, what we should have been able to Connect was that the Xenomorph is related to what ever they was doing on LV-223 many Thousands of Years ago.

Which should have Narrowed it down to TWO Connections.

a) The Xenomorph was ONE result of the LV-223 Experiments or Outbreak, either by Design or Accident.

b) The Xenomorph was the BASIS that had led to the LV-223 Experiments that eventually lead to the Outbreak.

Alien Engineers seemed to indicate a THIN LINE between the TWO in which something related to the Xenomorph was surely the Basis of Experiments of which the Xenomorph was but ONE eventual Outcome.

But this was NOT really Spoon Fed in Prometheus.

Prometheus did leave another Mystery which was details of exactly what LV-223 was for and what Happened on LV-223 before the Engineers abandoned the Place.  We also never knew 100% how LV-223 connected to the Eggs and which came First?

Never-mind HOW/WHEN the Derelict event Happened and HOW the Eggs got on the Ship but surely before Prometheus this was not ROCKET SCIENCE ;)

It seemed the Intentions of the sequels would have to NOT really give much away about the Xenomorph, its Origin or a Detailed Explanation of Events from when the Engineers First Set Foot on LV-223 to the Outbreak/Space Jockey event.

So all we had at this POINT in regards to the Mystery was.

The Space Jockey are Connected and Likely Engineers who are a Humanoid Race who had played a Role in the Creation and Evolution of Mankind (likely among other Worlds/Races) a Race of would be Gods who go around Seeding Life and Visiting and Evolving Worlds, both Genetically and Technologically but without giving us a reason WHY.

At some point this Race or a Faction of them had began to Experiment on LV-223 with Experiments that would lead to Horrors that appear to have some Aesthetic Connection to the Xenomorph without giving us the Exact Connection.

The Reason for this is left a little Ambiguous unless we go by Ridley Scotts comments which would indicate that those Engineers had decided to Create Biological Warfare for Protection and to deal with preserved Threats of which Mankind was deemed one.  

But there was that Ambiguity where you could not rule out that some Engineers had become Obsessed with the Xenomorph or its Ancestor and had Experimented to maybe Perfect themselves or use its DNA to Evolve Life as they saw it as more PERFECT than their own Humanoid DNA.

But then we had arrived at Alien Covenant and the Revelations in that... which was just continuing the Themes that was more Present in Prometheus and so it likely took the MYSTERY and Answer that was connected to those LV-223 Engineers and Xenomorph and decided to make it that a Sub-Creation by Mankind had Created the Xenomorph instead... which maybe was something NOT far from the Truth... just in regards to HOW those LV-223 Engineers had done this instead....

And so in CLOSING...

What we had was a Ancient Humanoid Ancestor Race that had Created Mankind, that then had started to Conduct Experiments on stuff on LV-223 and maybe themselves, which likely resulted in our Super Engineers and other Horrors on LV-223. 

This answers our Space Jockey Race and Derelict Ships.

Then looking for this Godlike Creators we have some Humans Turn up at this Place of Experimentation with one of our own ENGINEERED Creations.... the Android David who then uses the Engineers Experiments to go and Continue and Evolve what they was working on and THUS give us the Xenomorph.

Space Jockey as 7-8ft Tall Humanoids who we are descended from via Experimentation and Seeding of their DNA.

Xenomorph that is the Creation of a Android who is not Happy with his Role/Treatment by his Creators Humans who wished to use the Engineers Experiments to Create his OWN Creation...

I am sure these are NOT what most would have expected the Answers to be some 10+ Years ago.

Thats why i think in HINDSIGHT the Mystery and Prequels should NOT have happened as then we have our own Imaginations of the Mystery.

Ridley Scott chose to Answer these because he LOST all control of what became of a ALIEN 2 and he surely knew that Eventually after a ALIEN 5, ALIEN 6 a AVP 3 and 4.... that Eventually he knew that someone would ANSWER the Mystery from ALIEN.

So he wanted to make sure he was a PART of this so that he could have some Input onto the Mystery and especially the Space Jockey Revelations.

hox

Great ideas!

I also have ideas that the Derelicts were a kind of biomechanical life forms. A giant bio-brain is growing in the central part of the ship. And the observation dome is the eye. Engineers catch these ships and remove the brain (a kind of lobotomy). At the place where the bio-brain used to be, they mount the Pilot Chair.

The ship also produces Black Goo. Actually, that's why the Engineers catch them. Black Goo - the most important thing in the universe. The source of life.

But sometimes something goes wrong. The appearance of ovomorphs on Derelict (and the strange impregnation of pilot) is a kind of ship's immune system that responded to the invasion of the Engineers.

All secrets will be revealed. It's unavoidable.

But, I agree with dk.

>>>It seems best to speculate than a franchise to churn out movies and prequels that basically leave more questions.

No answers is better than mystery only for mystery. I call it - forced mystery. For example:

Alien has a good mystery stuff. Who is Space Jockey? What kind of cargo is he transporting? Where did he get this deadly cargo? What is this cargo for? Where did he come from?

This is a background mystery. You can speculate and at the same time have a solid film with a finished story! Why? Because these issues are not directly related to the plot of the film. You can answer these questions in another movie if you want. But. Do. Not. Try. To. Create. Forced. Questions!

Another example:

Prometheus has a forced mystery stuff. The film was supposed to answer all the questions. It was positioned as a film with answers. I specifically emphasize this. Because we can that why did you expect Aliens in this film? The film was never positioned like a movie about Aliens. It's true. You may also ask - why this film is not a prequel? The film was never positioned like a prequel. It's true. But the truth is also that the film was positioned as a film created for the answers. You cannot argue against this. Because this is how the film was presented to the public. Point of sale, if you will.

Prometheus sets the whole plot point about this ... and doesn't give answers. Just because Ridley wanted a mystery.

It all depends on what you mean:

>>>i think ULTIMATELY they should have KEPT the Entire thing a MYSTERY!

If you mean some entire mystery about Alien Universe - it can be speculated.

But if you mean those secrets that Ridley forcedly left in Prometheus, then they should definitely be answered. Because it was a promise. It was an idea. That was the plot point.

It seems best to speculate than a franchise to churn out movies and prequels that basically leave more questions. Off shoot stuff is fine, but if a way forward cannot be forged, it should end- with no cash grabbing prequels.

hox brings up an excellent idea but it would likely be too much for theaters or too niche to be profitable.

I think that the way to forge ahead is to continue after Resurrection and it doesn't have to have Ripley involved. Prequels haven't done much for the franchise.

woow.

Personally, I'm glad that the secret is out - at least in part. The back story to the Engineers' universe has hardly been tapped and there is plenty of scope for wonder (and horror) in that realm. What we're missing is imagination and creativity. Unfortunately, I don't think that Hollywood/Disney would be able to stomach a movie that is utterly alien in its nature, because audiences wouldn't be keen. As for myself, the weirder and more alien the premise, the better!

For a long time, I imagined that the Derelict Egg Chamber was once flooded with water, and had been parasitised by a water-borne monster.

Then, looking more closely at the vaginal openings of the ship, I wondered if the ships were partly organic and could reproduce sexually - perhaps with a male counterpart. The life story of something that wild could make an interesting movie on its own.

I mean, just off the top of my head... a pregnant ship lands on an outpost and is approached by humans. It fires defensive darts from its "skin" that tag the intruders. Later, their guts explode in a blizzard of whirling, lashing, arachnid forms. That would be fun. 

I think looking at the Potential for their being some other Safety Device then we know the Pathogen infects Living Organisms, well the MEAT if you would.  Then maybe something that would EFFECT all Living Matter in a Radius and basically just Solidify the Genetic Building Blocks in effect Desiccating Living Matter could also STOP the Pathogen from Spreading and doing what it was supposed to do.

Thats not to say this is what Happened, but something that could do this would be a IDEAL Safety Precaution.

I suppose we have to look at what the Pathogen was intended to do, we have Ridley Scott tell us that the Engineers use it to CLEAN UP places, and they would Return Hundreds of Years latter to then be able to START AGAIN.  This would be a BIT ODD if the Pathogen goes on to Create Hybrid Horrors like the Neomorph.

"sometimes to create, one must first destroy" this comment by David could mean the Pathogen is USED to Clean Up a World, or it could be the Intention is to Replace One Organism with another.

But another Explanation for those Engineers could be the Pathogen can be Weaponized and Programed to Infect only Certain Genomes and Spread and Eventually instead of Changing the DNA/Genome it just changes the Genetic Material into a Solid State.   This would indeed make it a IDEAL Weapon to CLEAN UP a World.

The Neomorph's are a different matter but i believe they likely came from a Spillage of Urns after the CRASH and so the Pathogen that Leaked from these was not Weaponized/Programed and so its Effects are more similar to what we saw in Prometheus (Hammerpedes).

Interesting you bring up the SHIELD as this is something i was also going to mention.  When the Bombardment Starts the Urns do seem to STOP at a Certain Height and Break and Spread Out, and you could be Forgiven for thinking they have such hit some kind of DOME.

Such as like the TV Series (Under the Dome)

So we cant rule out that Planet 4 had Similar, something to Consider is that Paradise well the Garden of Eden that is in Paradise is a Walled City.   There is NO better way to Control and Monitor a Population than to have them Confined to a Single Area/City much like the City (Bregna) from Aeon Flux

So maybe a Shield was NOT really created to Protect against a Bombardment because the Engineers were NEVER concerned about their own kind UNLEASHING the Pathogen on their own kind, and they were so Naive to think that NO other Species would ever be able to arrive at the Place they Create/Store this Substance.

But the Shield was a Good way to Prevent anyone leaving or entering the City.  Which maybe the Scorpion Ship was in Control of and ONCE this Ship had Crashed then the Barrier can not be Erected and also any Engineer Ships are Stranded.  So the Scorpion Docking Ship acts as a Form of Border Control and Watches over the City like the Relical from Aeon Flux maybe?

The Planet 4 inhabitants' awareness of the pathogen is interesting. It appears that the shield could have been meant to protect the populace against it in case of such an event that David brought. The shield may have been effective at the time it was created but maybe the pathogen had evolved to penetrate the shield and yield unpredictable results on the populace.

That  Beksinski painting is an interesting find. There is a lot to look at and speculate about.

yeah . . .but cool tho . . .id invite him to meet my parents if they was alive.

Not so much a catch as a throw, @Ingeniero. But you will find that a fair amount of my carefully crafted message is accurate :-)

I Raptus Did you mean Sulaco, not Nostromo?

That Roci example has bent antennae ... bad packaging destroying stuff :P

Another thing when looking at the Franchise are WHY they all Followed the Path of Ripley (i know its because she was the Main Character) but what i am talking about is from the Perspective of the Company.

The Companies must have had a Good Reason for ONLY wanting to Pursue the Xenomorph Specific to the Derelict, or there is NOTHING to obtain from Planet 4, LV-223 or any World that David goes to Next.

We have to assume that NOTHING was viable from LV-426 after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope which is WHY the USM Scientist resorted to Ripleys DNA.

However a Interesting Question to Ponder is CAN you Obtain Xenomorph DNA from a Dead Face Hugger?

Surely the Team from the USCSS Patna  could have obtained one of the Face Huggers from the Sulaco EEV Incident (includes the ONE that lead to the Xenomorph in Alien 3).

If you could obtain a Xenomorph via infected Ripley DNA then surely you could from a Face Hugger Specimen?

I would Personally go for either.

a) A Story that Follows what Happened to the Failed Ripley 7 Queen, as in maybe this Specimen could had been taken to some other Place?

Which i have a rough idea for which i have yet to Expand upon (as usual)

b) Go to a World we have not seen before where we either come across a World that some of the Eggs had got to (but we dont give any Dates/Hints to when they got there or where from.

c) As above but you arrive at a World that had been Bombarded by the Black Goo in the Past.

None of those Options has to Connect to LV-426 or Conflict the Prequels then ;)

dk dont know how I would feel about just Aliens shoes, pants and a shirt lol 

The Expanse loot crate had an amazing kick-ass Rocinante (ship) scale model and display. 

A Nostromo scale model would be most welcome 

Picture credit: Amazon 

sentientdark nice suggestion! perfectly feasible. 

Jerri and Norbert were designed for similar such purposes.

Alien Harvest was pretty terrible but had a good premise that could be easily adapted/modernized with ease and would offer something not yet explored on film 

Jerri on the other hand...... Imagine the levels of eye-twitching, rage inducing shitstorm that would result from seeing a smack-talking, cigar-chomping, guns blazing synthetic xenomorph who beats people to death with a severed arm haha 

It would require balls of steel to attempt that 

Great catch hox. 

"Do you think it should DROP the Ripley, Hicks and NewtCharacters and therefore NOT remove Alien 3 from Canon?"

Yes.

Please keep Alien 3 as is and tell the stories of Alien: River of Pain or Alien: The Cold Forge on film...or pick up right after Alien Resurrection.

That would be interesting to watch...please do.

It would be cool to see someone do an unboxing and see if it's cool stuff or garbage.

why not go the jerri root . . .alien stronghold.

create a few synthetic xenos with a few mini nukes . . .they go deep into the hive and the explosions should explode underground with the tunnels taking the blast and wiping out the xenos.

I Raptus It is Aliens themed loot crate, not Alien. Meaning there are power loaders, queens, colonial marines and the rest.

It could be interesting to see what kind of loot would be there. Hopefully it's not merch that they couldn't move and are trying to liquidate. If it's sort of like the M Box from a few years ago, it could be a great thing. They ask for shirt, pants and shoe size. Hmm...

"I'm starting to think that you are not completely satisfied with Prometheus. Perhaps you also think that Alien: Engineers would be a better option? "

This is a Excellent Point ;)

I think Prometheus was a movie that had not Satisfied a lot, it however had Potential in how it could EXPAND the Franchise.  For me i dont really have a lot to Complain about regarding Prometheus especially the Plot.

The Scale of the Engineers in Comparison to the Space Jockey being a Minor Niggle but we have covered that old Nugget many times.

Alien Engineers is certainly basically the same as Prometheus, they just decided that you NEVER had to have Xenomorphs or offer any deep Clues to LV-426 and that the other Themes/Plot about Engineers and Creation was more interesting.

I think again in HINDSIGHT then if they had taken Lindeloffs work and got someone else in to MERGE both Prometheus and Alien Engineers then a AMALGAMATION would have given us the better Result... with less to Complain about lol.

But if i had to make a Choice of getting a Movie that was based on Lindeloffs Paradise, or Alien Engineers then i prefer what we got with Prometheus as Alien Engineers was a bit Flawed and Spoon Fed and Popcorn.   I have said a number of Times in HINDSIGHT if we had a First Prequel that was more a MIX of the TWO then i feel we would have had the better Result..... i have also said in HINDSIGHT that if Prometheus got a Sequel that went back to LV-223 and was like a Alien Engineers of sorts then that would have served to CLOSE the DOOR to ALIEN and the Xenomorph and allowed where David and Dr Shaw in another Sequel to not be Restrained by the Xenomorph or its Origins and could have given us more about the Engineers.

I think its hard to come up with something Fresh, especially if this has to be about Discovering the Typical Eggs that make Typical Face Huggers that then Spawn our ALIEN or ALIENS type of Xenomorphs (or AVP and AVPR types) if you get what i mean.

I think it would be Interesting to Explore some Variation at least.  And you can use your Imagination rather than going back to the CARBON COPY.  This is something that maybe Blomkamps Alien 5 was doing, by that i mean trying to give us a slightly different take on the Xenomorphs.

The above for Example ;)

What kind of Xenomorph would that Produce?

Then the Red Harvest Project had many Experiments going on and a Few Concept Artists.   I think such a Project (Red Harvest/Alien 5) is something that i think they should carry on with.... i can understand putting something on HOLD until the Prequels had Concluded and its likely that IF we saw Alien Covenant was a HIT or at least made a Good Return, we would have had a Alien Covenant 2 by now... which could have freed up Time to work on a Alien 5.

The only real Concern i had for ALIEN 5 was that it did-not have to bring back Ripley and Co.... it is Unfortunate what Happened with Alien 3.....  but there are GOOD REASONS for why that happened especially with Newt.

I could not understand why Hicks had to be Killed off though but i guess the Loss of Both did help to build the Character of Ripley and what she would have gone through with the Losses.   But what happened had happened and i dont see any reason to Resurrect anyone.

But the PLOT of Red Harvest/Alien 5 does seem to have Potential, not a lot is known about it.  What we do see is some Mutations of the Xenomorph, some very ODD ones in Red Harvest... which only makes me assume they recovered a Derelict where the Cargo had suffered some Radiation Damage and they tried to Obtain a Pure Specimen but all they could get was Mutations..

I think they would at some point have Obtained a Clean/Pure Specimen though, just they would have had a number of Failures/Undesired Results as we saw in Alien Resurrection with the Clones.

I will in CLOSING say that Prometheus with LV-223 and Planet 4 has shown that you have the Potential to also explore many different Versions of Horrors that could come from the Black Goo/Experiments.

Did the Engineers use the Black Goo on any Worlds? what became of them?

What was the Origin of the Black Goo?

Was the GOO used on some Organism the Engineers had never Created to then account for the Various Horrors/Experiments on LV-223?

The Answers/Exploration of those could be Explored on a Totally Different World we have NOT been to yet ;)

But i think that Disney will play it SAFE and it will just be the Discovery of Typical Eggs with little Variation.  But maybe they can change it up a little?

@LETO

I apologize if you have misunderstood me a little, its my fault as i do write Quite a lot and so its easy to get LOST ;)

So Regarding the back to LV-223 i made this Comment as a in HINDSIGHT as far as after Prometheus, as in that what they should have done was to offer TWO sequels to Prometheus, the First being back to LV-223 where we would get more Answers/Connections to the Xenomorph/LV-426 and some clues to what happened more on LV-223.  Where you would introduce Monsters that are more similar to the Xenomorph. 

This would then allow them to CLOSE the Door to ALIEN and allow for another Sequel to go where David and Dr Shaw are off to without having to Spoon Feed any Answers or include the Xenomorph etc.  This route could also had then kept the Xenomorph as Ancient and NOT a Creation of David's.  This does not mean that such a Prometheus 2 could not introduce some Monsters but it would NOT have had to include the Xenomorph.

But ALAS.

As far as where we are NOW however (Alien Covenant) i think that LV-223 could potentially had been visited again prior to ALIEN, if its not then it would likely had been the Destination of the Derelict prior to the Space Jockey event.

However when talking about a ALIEN 5 as in another Movie that would be SET after the events of ALIEN then i am not Suggesting we go back to LV-223 or do anything that may STEP on the Toes of HOW the Prequels may have Concluded.

I will say i Strongly Disagree that LV-223 has nothing Fresh to Offer.  It would be if the Place only Contained a Pyramid Complex with just EGGS... but with more Temple Mounds, the Black Goo then the Potential for multiple Horrors is Vastly more than... "oh we found another EGG"

Off Course it would be Unwise and Unlikely to go back to LV-223 if we are doing anything set after ALIEN because you have to ask WHY bother with the Derelict and Ripley in the Franchise if LV-223 is still there as surely this place is a Treasure Trove compared to Folly of Eggs.

When i was giving the Options out they are just Options, they dont mean they are any that i Personally would Consider... apart from 3 or 5 ;)

I dont think you need to go back to LV-223 or LV-426 but if you are to do a Movie that has Traditional Xenomorphs again, and is NOT set before ALIEN... then by Virtue of Alien Covenant you are Limited to where you can Source the Xenomorph.

You could got to say LV-186 or something (but you dont have to have the LV in a New World and it does-not have to be near the Zeta Reticuli Systems). 

So you could say have a Ship that arrives at a Uncharted World some 274 LY from Earth.  Then if you are to show that you come across some EGGS that contain Xenomorphs then in Light of Alien Covenant those Eggs would have had to have been Sourced from Planet 4, LV-426 or any World that David visits after Alien Covenant or any World the Engineers who take some of his Eggs would have visited.

But you could GO to such a New World and just dont reveal anything about where the Eggs came from, you leave it a Mystery.. no Carbon Dating or anything to suggest they are XXX Old... just NO Mention of it so then your left to either Wonder... HOW did these Eggs get there from Planet  4 or those TWO Face Hugers, or that surely this means the Xenomorph is NOT a Creation of David... But you leave it Ambiguous.... this is so you dont Discredit/Conflict the Prequels.

This could have been avoided if they never went for that Curveball in AC which i felt was a Mistake.

You could have a Story where you Intercept a Ship that is just Drifting through Space that when it is Boarded it has a Xenomorph or Eggs on it.   But again those Eggs would have had to had been Sourced from LV-426 or a Place where David or his Eggs had been to after Alien Covenant.

But again you dont have to Declare where they came from, so you then are left to Speculate if and HOW they are Sourced from Davids Experiments, or that they could indeed be from another Source that Predates our David.  You just leave the WHERE/WHEN the Eggs came from a Mystery ;)

>>>Regarding that Project.... i feel they should have gave us a Second Mission to LV-223 that would be more ALIENY and have more Similar Xenomorphs and Clues.... and release that FIRST!

Again. How can you talk about something fresh and at the same time talk about returning to LV-223? I repeat:

You talk about new ideas and ways, but at the same time you are talking about returning to already explored planets. No. If you insist on new ideas, you must forget about the planets already seen. Otherwise, this is the same as talking about the return of Ripley and the gang. Just the other side of the same coin ;)

Plus, whenever you talk about the second mission on LV-223, which will be more alieny, I'm starting to think that you are not completely satisfied with Prometheus. Perhaps you also think that Alien: Engineers would be a better option? Because Alien: Engineers is the same Prometheus + Aliens + Engineers.

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Return to Alien 5.

I think that set the film after AR - a good idea, it can work. But only on the timeline. The plot should in no case have a connection to AR. This is a doomed idea.

Perhaps the best idea - it's (in the absence of AC2) go to Origae-6. Something like an abandoned colony that was forgotten after the Covenant mission.

"What makes you oppose Alien 5 and Prometheus 2? In other words - why do you think that Prometheus 2 not about xenomorphs?"

My comment was about at the Time that a Prometheus 2 was unlikely to Answer anything from ALIEN or the Xenomorph... but we did then get to a point when they changed the Direction to Introduce the Xenomorph and give us a ALIEN Prequel.   That would provide to be a Origins Story that leads to the Eggs on the Derelict.

Regarding that Project.... i feel they should have gave us a Second Mission to LV-223 that would be more ALIENY and have more Similar Xenomorphs and Clues.... and release that FIRST!

Thus allowing Ridley Scott to continue with a Prometheus sequel that could STEER AWAY from such things with the Door being Closed...

But ALAS!

I Certainly feel you can explore a FEW more ALIEN Movies, but i think you have to Freshen things up a bit, and as i discussed on another Topic that does-not mean STRAYING too FAR away from the Xenomorph Aesthetic.

I do still feel the Prequels regarding the Black Goo, the Experiments that are connected which include LV-223 do offer avenues to NEW Monsters... but i am not 100% sure that Purest would be Fans of that as they would Consider that a ALIEN movie has to include the Xenomorph..

Where as the Prequels indicate that its Origins are more Varied than a Queen laying a Egg.  The Black Goo in part being ALIEN.

The basis of this Topic however is to explore that IF we got a ALIEN 5 then i think you have to have something that does-not STRAY too FAR from the Traditional Xenomorph.

You would think anyone who Successfully Obtains a Xenomorph would want to see what they can Exploit beyond just using the Eggs to Unleash Snarling Beasts that we are used to...

Maybe you would want to Experiment on it... Create a Hybrid, use its DNA for Super Soldiers (Ripley 8 a Prime Example) or maybe you would want to Create a ULTRAMORPH?

Some of the Concepts of Blomkamps seemed to touch upon this and more so the RED HARVEST Project that Carlos Huante had done some Concepts for.   I think this would be Interesting.... but i dont think such a Project would have to reintroduce Ripley and Co.

The basis of this Topic was to discus if we would get a ALIEN Franchise Movie and NOT a Continuation of the Prequels, so we had seen 4 Alien Movies released that are SET after the Time-Period of the Prequels.

I agree that the Best/Preferred Option has to be something that is NOT connected to events that link to the First 3 Movies for sure.  That being another Journey to the Derelict, i listed the Options only as they are some Avenues to go, but i do think your better off going to some place else...  such as OPTION 5

In Context to OPTION 5 i had mentioned the Prequels by Virtue that IF they are to be Considered as CANON then it indicates the Xenomorph/Eggs would have FIRST appeared on Planet 4, and that at present we would have to see them get to LV-426 and so we can Speculate that they likely would appear on Oriage-6 and maybe LV-223 prior to arriving on LV-426.  But as i said these are all things that a Prequel Continuation would surely had Touched upon and so if we got a ALIEN 5 i dont think we should GO BACK to any of those places.

So if we dont go back to LV-426/Derelict and we dont go to places from the Prequels which include Potential Places that could have been Visited in any Continuation. 

Then that leaves us with 3), 4) and 5)...   with Number 4 i think its more Unlikely anything could have Survived the FATE of the USM Auriga.

However with Option 3 we see that Ripley 7 had been Alive and something was removed from her... we do-not see what becomes of this and so it could be a OPTION to Explore what becomes or could be obtained by Failed Queen 7.  Even if the Organism is a BUST... well you could use its DNA.  So this is just a OPTION.

If we however look at Option 5 then we have to ask HOW FAR away from a Traditional Xenomorph would we go as FAR as introducing a Monster?

Prior to/Ignoring the Prequels we had MANY a Option as far as where more EGGS could be. Considering the Prequels then everything related to the Derelict Eggs are Sourced from Planet 4, which does-not mean that the Derelict would end up being the ONLY ship that eventually has Eggs on it.

So if you do another ALIEN Movie then the Xenomorph has to be Sourced from somewhere... Alien Isolation and its Comic Sequel have indicated that Xenomorphs had been Sourced from the Derelict and so we cant rule out doing a Movie/Story where a Outpost/Science Division has obtained a Specimen that is Connected from the Isolation Series.

However you could explore other Worlds to obtain the Xenomorph, but as i was saying that with the Prequels you would have to Consider how those Eggs got from Planet 4, the Derelict or where ever else that Davids Experiment/Creation had been.

Revealing another Unconnected World (like the Comics and Novels had done) would Potentially Conflict the Prequels.  I do think Fans would like something like this though as it would Discredit David's Role in the Xenomorphs Origins.

So its not really that SIMPLE to go and introduce another ALIEN Movie that has Traditional Xenomorphs.  You do get kind of limited to those 5 Options with the 5th Option being much more OPEN.

Blomkamps Alien 5 appeared to indicate that they could have gone back to LV-426 and recovered the Derelict some 20+ Years after Hadleys Hopes Destruction....so it seemed like it was a Option 2.  With regards to his Alien 5 i think it seemed interesting but i felt it was NOT necessary to Resurrect the Old Cast just because some Fans were NOT happy with how Alien 3 had killed them off.

Personally i think we are at a Sticking Point in Light of the Prequels, as we have to be CAREFUL that any avenue to introduce the Xenomorph would NOT contradict whatever they had in-store for the Prequels... THIS does-not mean you cant carry on with a ALIEN  5 its just it would be idea before they did this that THEY have the Conclusion of where the Prequels would Connect to the Derelict Figured out.. even if they keep it a Mystery... they need to have a idea of HOW that event comes to be.

A Option 1, 2, 3 and 4 would be avenues where you would be FREE from having to Consider the Prequels at all.

There is always the 6th Option which would be to Carry on with Ripley 8 but that maybe Tricky with Miss Ripley's Age and being a Xeno Hybrid who can Regenerate (would Ripley 8 Age?) but i had a way around this ;)

The Novels and Comics have the Novelty of being able to Change Canon a bit and have more Freedom.   Especially when we are talking about more Traditional Xenomorphs.

You could have a ALIEN Movie that is a Result of another World that had been infected with the Black Goo or other Horrors the Engineers had been up to... but doing so you would have to maybe introduce a Variant Organism that is NOT a Carbon Copy of the Xenomorph from Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien Covenant.

As this really is a Problem with the Decision to have David as the Creator and indicate that prior to 2100 there was NO Famous Monster not in the Traditional Sense.

In Hindsight that Curveball was a Mistake.

I still advocate that bringing back Ripley and Co would be a Mistake, and just a Fan Service, unless they can really give us a Good Explanation apart from having to Accept that Alien 3 never existed.

But i guess they could have it as a Alternative Sequel so you arrive at Aliens and they have given us TWO path to Follow... Alien 3 or Alien 5, but my Concern is ONCE they do this and IF such a Venture is a HIT then what stops Disney basically giving us Alternatives to all the Movies..

Alternative Prequels... a Alternative Alien 2 etc

I do think a complete Reboot would be on the Cards though... eventually.