New Replies (Page 167)

I will add that the ALIEN Franchise could Branch off to Different things that are NOT nothing to do with the Xenomorph, but such Ventures would NOT be best to be a Movie, and maybe should not CARRY the ALIEN Prefix because indeed this is Synonymous with and Expected to be about the XENOMORPH.

I Personally think there is other ways they could/should have Weaved the Xenomorph Purpose into something more HP Lovecraft.

" if you really want to move away from the xenomorph, then why not create a separate franchise?"

Ultimately this was the Intention with Prometheus it was to be more about WHO the Space Jockey are, and then show they had Experimented with Horrid stuff as a Weapon to use on Worlds they wanted to Eradicate, with Vague Clues to HELP us see that the Xenomorph was also a Result of the Evils those Engineers had been up to on LV-223..

But it was just NOT as Spoon Fed and it lacked any real Monsters that connected to the Xenomorph. Some Fans felt what they would be Getting was a Movie that would Connect to the Xenomorph and Derelict, when in reality it was about WHO the Space Jockey are.

Absolutely the Original Franchise had Centered around the Xenomorph, you did-not need to have Ripley involved in every Movie, as far as more Movies to Follow, you never had to always have it be about the Weyland Yutani Company either.

The Problem with the Xenomorph is deciding on its ORIGINS not so much as far as to SHOW them, but that those working on the Movies know what those Origins are..

For Example.

1) Was the Xenomorph a Natural Organism or has some Unknown Origins but was merely Discovered by the Engineers/Space Jockey!

In this case you then have to ask is there more to it than just Queen lays Eggs, Face Huggers pop out, a Host is Infected and we get Chest Busters and Xenomorphs!  How many times can you keep repeating that?  You would have to at some point go to the PLANET where these Organisms where First Discovered or to a PLANET that has been Completely Overran by them.... but then surely you have to EXPAND on them more than it just being Hadleys Hope Infestation on a Larger Scale.

2) Was the Xenomorph a Engineered Experiment/Weapon kind of from Scratch?

In this case eventually the Queen/Egg/Xenomorph would run its course, before you would have to then look at WHO/WHY/WHEN and HOW was the Xenomorph Created and then move onto those who Created it and what Agenda, maybe then Exploring more about the Creators.

3) Was the Xenomorph a Experiment that had Originated from Experimenting/Discovery of some other Organism?

This would kind of Combine 1+2, where once you have seen the Xenomorph and HOW it came to be, you explore either  or both of WHO had Experimented on some other Organism to then Create the Xenomorph, and/or what this Original Organism was.

A lot of Fans do have a Passion for the Xenomorph, but it really can become Repetitive unless you go for OPTION 1 because and i dont mean to Cause Offense by this... what you are in effect having is a Space Bug, a Cosmic Cockroach....  ok a more Intelligent kind but still some kind of Parasitic Bug.

Because thats what we really have.... a somewhat Intelligent, Deadly Invasive Species, like some kind of Bi-Pedal kind of Intelligent Parasitic Ants.  By their Nature not so much Aesthetically.

so you have to come up with looking at is there more to this Organism, or can they Evolve to something more?  Or Explore what Creature/Organism they had been Engineered from or their Creators and their Agenda/History and Culture.

For many i think the Space Jockey Revelation and Xenomorph as a Bi-Product of a Biological Pathogen are JUST not as ALIEN as Fans would have expected before the Prequels had began.

Regarding the Pickle that was the 2nd Prequel...

It simply was a MISTAKE in trying to give the Xenomorph and a Direct Prequel, while trying to Carry some of Prometheus with it!

In Hindsight a 2nd Mission to LV-223 could have given the Fans more of a ALIEN ENGINEERS with more Clues/Answers and the Xenomorph or very close with clues to indicate HOW/WHERE/WHEN the Xenomorph came to be.

And then after THIS we could have seen Ridley Scott go with his Prometheus 2 and Steer Away from ALIEN.

Before i continue i will add that the Process of a Prometheus 2 alone was Tricky, they was having a HARD time to come up with a Prometheus 2.... before after 2014 a Change in Direction somewhat lead to what was the Work that Dante Harper had begun that Evolved to Alien Covenant.

By deciding to give us HOW/WHEN/WHY the Xenomorph Origins had begun, and having this Story take place on Planet 4 with Davids Experiments over 10 years, then Needing some more Humans to Arrive to that Planet meant they had to Devise a Plot for HOW any Humans would Arrive at this Place where David had been Stranded.

If we look at AC, if we was to add more Scenes about the Engineers, have Dr Shaw alive, even as Flash Backs never mind she gets Rescued or Rescues the Covenant Crew, then these would ADD to the Theatrical Run Time.... so some Sacrifices had to be made...

Its a Shame as on ONE hand i would imagine those who liked Prometheus would have wanted to see more about the Engineers and Dr Shaw, rather than be Centered around David, i think those who wanted the Xenomorph and Origins again would NOT have wanted to see it Created and Centered around David likewise.

So its a Pickle... but indeed it could have been a BIG F-U to those who RS and Few others in Charge felt had OBJECTED to a Prometheus 2....  so in effect a they want £"$"£% Xenmorphs we will give them some... and then they would be saying... you see sometimes its not best to GET what you ask for.... and pull the NOW maybe you see somethings are best left a Mystery...

The SAD thing is they could have given more about the Engineers, and Dr Shaw and still have incoming Humans.. and give few Clues to the Xenomorph but still keep the David Creator Arc... via him Acknowledging the Xenomorph in the Past and announcing he was CREATING something that Surpasses it... and give us something that was more like the Ultramorph...

Thus keeping some Mystery with the Xenomorph, and keeping its Creation and Origins as Ancient and Certainly NOT by David but ALAS...

@ignorantGuy

The Prequels had gone through some Changes and i will agree that the Purpose of the Prequels was that as Ridley Scott had said, No One ever Answered who was the Big Guy in the Chair and WHY that Cargo.  They came up with the Engineers as the Space Jockey and then reached a point where they Actually Felt that you have seen the Xenomorph over and over, and while YES the Xenomorph was the ALIEN, like other Franchises, Once you Start to show that Beast/Bad Guy over and over it can become Repetitive and do Damage to Reputation of the Beast/Bad Guys Original Few Appearances, this applies to the likes of Freddy Freddy Krueger, Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees and you could say JAWS too etc.

As they had decided that the Xenomorph was just a Engineered Biological Warfare, they had decided that maybe you dont need the Xenomorph, you can leave ALIEN having a Mystery and Explore the Space Jockey/Engineers as something NEW where you would have a SEPARATE kind of Franchise where its connected to ALIEN by Virtue of the Xenomorph being a Biological Weapon that had arisen from the Experiments etc on LV-223.

This was somewhat a ERROR on their Part... they should have made more of a Xenomorph Connection/Answers and had more of a Monster that was similar so they could CLOSE the Door to ALIEN and then go off with the Engineers to Explore a Spin Off...  But ALAS...

I Certainly can see the Potential in the Big F-U....  because we did see RS say "if they want Aliens i will give them $"£%£$ Aliens" and he had mentioned he felt the Beast was Cooked.   To me this seemed that RS was not a Massive Fan of going back to the Xenomorph as he maybe Felt there was NOT a lot you can continue with apart from giving the Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs got onto the Derelict.  It seemed he was Frustrated that he could not have Continued with a Prometheus 2 that would STEER AWAY from ALIEN.

He had mentioned that he Felt the Fans wanted those Answers and wanted the Xenomorph... and so it seems he went with the U-Turn to give us a Direct Prequel Series... but his Comments such as they want £!"$£"% Aliens does seem he felt this was NOT what he wanted.... so indeed the David as the Creator could have been the Ultimate F-U to the Fans... well those he felt wanted to see Xenomorphs, and he maybe Blamed this on him not being allowed to go with his Prometheus 2 ideas..

Could the Failure of a movie with Xenomorphs be used by RS to go and say "see if gave you ALIENS and this Movie STILL did-not do as well as Prometheus" he had said plans for a AC sequel would NOT be about the Xenomorph.

A Frustrating thing about RS is he has a Habit of Contradicting himself.....  even over a Period of Months... so we had... the Beast is Cooked, he was Ahead of the Curve with Prometheus.... to it has to be about HIM (we can assume the ALIEN/Xenomorph) but you have to Evolve Him, and then also to mentioning about its about the ALIEN and you have to Evolve it and look at other ways of Procreation.  (i agree with that as its a case of how many times can you make Movie about Queen => Egg => Xenomorph?).

So we do get some Conflicting Comments by RS, i think overall he saw more Scope with Expanding the Franchise beyond our Queen and Eggs.

But Certainly this is WHAT the Franchise was best known for... it was what is more Marketable i think the PROBLEM came from RS wanting to Explore the other Themes and Plot about Prometheus, Creation and Engineers than to go back to what in effect was just some Horrid Organism that had came from Experiments on LV-223.

But a lot of Fans see Prometheus as being a ALIEN movie and so would expect that it HAS to connect to the Xenomorphs... when it seems the Plan they had was to have it become a SPIN-OFF where Prometheus was the Connecting Tissue to ALIEN.

The Problem being that it was NOT enough of a Connection to then Close the Door to ALIEN... and Explore something else without the Shackles of the Franchise.

Good idea! I'd find that way more interesting than a movie featuring boring old humans. Money won't let that happen, though.

@BigDave "I can explain the Pit Falls in another Post." Sorry, but please don't. You usually write much but you repeat yourself so much that another repeat would not be necessary.

I find really hard to believe that the studios not wanted to have Xenos in Prometheus for quite a bunch of reasons:

1. Ridley himself said he would return to the franchise to explore the space jockey as that was not explored (going back to the 2000s). He was saying the beast is cooked till 2014 at least. Have you even read the article? Their argument is that AC a big FU to those who said that Prometheus is too "idiosyncratic".

2. The studios would have marketted Xeno merch much more easily that anything in Prometheus.

3. Lindelof was brought in by Ridley himself probably to expand the mysterious atmosphere.

Shaw did not need to die, as she could have functioned easily enough as Daniels and would have a more complicated history with David. And guess what Carlos Huante said she was still alive in the early drafts, hiding on the planet. They could have toned down the religious aspect if people complain about that. But she was killed off at the request of the new studio honchos, replaced with some that looks more like Ripley. Probably that she was cast also in the Harry Potter prequels helped a lot, as recognition for teenagers.

In other language - I consider it an absolute necessity: to reduce the aspect of the corporation to an absolute minimum.

Remove conspiracy, remove corporation agents. Put a new world, put a true scientists, put the xeno, put the true Engineers (Prometheus without doubts), put another life forms, put alien technologies, make AvE - Alien vs Engineer.

One question, the real question that needs to be asked - if you really want to move away from the xenomorph, then why not create a separate franchise? Why waste time, money and the potential of new stories about Aliens on films about cheap humanoids and other faceless monsters? Why use the noble Alien Universe as a cat tray for dubious ideas?

Especially if such a film can cancel the real story about Alien.

But there is still WY, right? WY is a part of Alien Universe and it’s possible to create a whole bunch of movies about WY, right? No. WY is not a core of franchise. The core is *cough... cough...* - xenomorph.

Like Thoughts_Dreams not interested in other films about AI. I can say the same about WY. Moreover - it's even worse! WY - surprise-surprise xeno-haters - will not give you wonderful new worlds! All you get is a bureaucracy, intrigue and boring actions between people, which you will see in any other films. No xenomorphs, no engineers, no deep questions, no philosophy. And no box-office. No another Alien films. Congratulations - you got your film with original content!

@IsraelSchmidt: The problem is that the Space Jockey on LV-426 that Dallas and Kane found fossilised wasn't drawn or depicted, it was approximately 7ft taller than the 8ft Engineers we saw in Prometheus, and it seemed more equivalent to the "Kings" shown in Elizabeth Shaw's notebook, especially the second page depicting the Ptolemaic period (i.e. 100 B.C.).

Regarding Ridley Scott....

I think he is one of the Best Directors well a Very Well known one, does that mean he is Great?  Nope, he has made some Great Movies and some NOT so Great Movies but then thats the same with Most Directors.

Kubrick is a bit different he released less, but he had spent more time on the Story... (from Concept to Completion)

Ridley Scott is mainly a Ideas Man... he then works with a Team to Flesh them into a Story, and then he will Tinker with that Story.  Ridley Scott is Very Efficient, he often allows Actors a lot of Freedom with the Character, he Gives Pointers, but he will allow them to do things for themselves and then Re-shoot if he is not pleased.

He is Very Practical and likes to have SETS and Props that allow the Actors to get more a Sense of the Scene and NOT rely on imagination... this can have its Drawbacks.. (Cost/Build Time).  But he is Very Efficient in the Directors Chair, with how many Cameras and Shots...

His Greatest Asset is Once the Sets/Props/Costumes are all Ready, he can go in and SHOOT a Movie very Quick compared to Many.   Sometimes this has some Pitfalls though and Errors/Oversights.

I think its Important to Remember the Prequels where always like a Work in Progress, things Evolved and Changed..

It seemed that prior to Jon Spaights we was going to get another Movie that would have been about Humans Discovering Eggs and being Basically another ALIENS.

We then got to having a Plot about the Engineers, as it would give us something to relate to, rather than Discovering some ALIEN Race who would NOT be able to Communicate with Mankind, and so its then HOW do we get Humans to go to a Place where the Creator/Origins of the Xenomorph are if this Species are Totally ALIEN and then where do you go from that if you want a Sequel....

So the Engineers Plot came into play, which is a Interesting Bold Plot but somewhat a Double Edged Sword/Poisoned Chalice.  It appeared that RS was interested in Spaights Ideas and what became Alien Engineers, before SOMETHING had happened that lead to them DROPPING the Xenomorph and Answers...

Was this RS, was it Giler/Hill or someone else?

I think Regardless, what happened is that Ridley Scott agreed and felt that a Prequel does-not have to be Literal Connecting Prequel, its Good to keep some Mystery and we have seen the Xenomorph over and over and over and so to DROP them and Concentrate on the Space Jockey/Engineers and that Plot was something different.

To give us a Spin Off Franchise that would STEER AWAY from the First Movie... (ALIEN).

The Problem was that Prometheus and Especially the Cut we got, just NEVER cave enough Answers, some Fans expected to Learn more about the Xenomorph Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY the Derelict and Cargo ended up on LV-426.

For some it was Disappointing that the ONLY kind of Action/Death scenes related to the Franchise came from Space Cobra Petting, and Trilobite Face Hugging/Deacon Chest Busting.  Where some Fans may feel that these just dont Compare to the Xenomorph and HOW do they exactly Connect?

The Majority of Deaths coming from a Angry Bald 7ft+ Humanoid Engineer, and a Toxic Avenger looking Mutated Human....  again nothing like Xenomorphs.

I dont think everyone expected Xenomorphs, but they would have wanted more Connections/Clues and something more Relatable that went around and Killed Folk!   And so it never meant we NEEDED a Xenomorph... something like the Neomorphs that then Killed say 4-6 People would have done.

I think some Fans read the Alien Engineers Draft and/or saw the Concepts and Felt that Prometheus lacked this Xenomorphy like Monsters.  With Alien Engineers we had TWO kinds of Face Hugger, and THREE kinds of Xenomorph like Organisms.

The Milburn Death and Engineers Death/Chest Buster just NEVER really matched what the Franchise had and Alien Engineers.

Prometheus had a Number of Flaws.... but the Studio had Considered that NOT having Xenomorph Related Monsters, or more Clues was what Disappointed Fans..

And so by the Time we get to Latter Drafts after Harper had left the Project we had came to a Literal Prequel Series that would had been a Few Movies that would introduce the Xenomorph, its Origins and Eventually Provided us the Answers to the Derelict/LV-426.

By Virtue of such a U-TURN and how do we get from Prometheus to ALIEN and the Derelict in a Chronological Order over another 2-3 Movies that would then take us to the Back Door of ALIEN and then HOW in that Time-Line (28 Years) were you would have to get from Prometheus to Alien while Covering the Xenomorph Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY it ended up on LV-426 and have to Re-Introduce Humans...

Well these Necessary Plot Choices provided Many Pit Falls that is WHY with Alien Covenant it was a bit of a MESS.

I can explain the Pit Falls in another Post.

I would say that Giler/Hill likely wanted to continue with the David Arc, and Ridley Scott felt he was a Character they cant Scrap..... But the David Creator and Emphasis on him was NOT the only Problem, it made sense to where they wanted to Expand on the Bigger Themes...

The U-Turn to go and connect to ALIEN and then HOW do you introduce Humans... means that within a 2 Hour Movie you have to make Sacrifices.... Character Depth, Dr Shaw, The Engineers are all things that had to be Cut Down because there was TOO MUCH that had to be Set Up that to have more Depth of Characters, more about the Engineers and Dr Shaw would have required a Extra Hour....

Especially when the Emphasis is to GET to the Xenomorph but more so the Revelation about WHO had Created it...  And so Sacrificed had to be made, things Forced and Speed Up for the sakes of Pacing (Xenomorph Gestation/Growth Rates).

I think you raise some Good Points.... we can assume that the Engineers are Millions of Years Old and that its likely they dont re-use the same Ships that they do since they First Began to become Space Fairing Species...

What becomes of such Ships?  I would Speculate they would NOT want any other Species to obtain any of their Technology so it would be Interesting to Speculate about where and what they would do with Obsolete Technology.

The Pebble Ship from the Sacrificial Scene could be such a Obsolete Technology, thats been Replaced with something BETTER... which i think the Juggernauts could be.

The Docking Ship was interesting as this seemed to be its Purpose, those working on the Movie said that it was like some kind of Border Control, indeed we cant say for Certain that this SHIP can Leave the Planet and so is NOT any Interstellar Craft.

I think while we can Speculate and Hope... i do think its Very Likely the ONLY kind of Ship we would see thats related to the Engineers will be more Juggernauts and we would have to Accept at Conclusion that this is what ENDS up on LV-426.

So indeed i agree that its Unlikely we would see any NEW kinds of Ships, i think thats the Case even if the Prequels are Finished... if the Prequels are Scraped then i cant see Disney going back to the Engineers.

As far as the Big Screen/Small Screen.... we cant RULE it out in Comics or Games but i am NOT so sure we would even see them in those Mediums.

Certainly all we can do is Speculate.... we could Wonder would they have more Military Ships as the Juggernauts seemed to LACK any real Defenses, all they seem to do is DROP their Cargo.... The Docking Ship likewise came Unstuck VS the Bombarding Juggernaught.

The Logical Explanation would be the Engineers do-not need a Variety of Ships as they are the Founders/Seeders of Worlds and they keep those Worlds in Check so they do-not become a Threat and so they are so Naive to think that NO other Species could Evolve Alone to such a Level...

Such Arrogance that would likely Prove Costly to their Species.  We also have to Wonder if they never have Internal Conflicts that would result in using Ships for Warfare beyond Dropping Drums of Viral Crap on each other.

Again the Comics did kind of show Engineer Weapons, and similar was in the earlier Prometheus Drafts (Alien Engineers and Alien Genesis) so maybe the Comics could be Adventurous but again i think Disney would only be interested in the Marines and Xenomorphs and Predators.

"hox brings up a good point referencing from Aliens that 400 worlds were surveyed by WY"

And they had Never Encountered anything like the Xenomorph before... which we know is NOT True which means stuff gets COVERED UP ;)

But regardless we do know that they had Encountered other Species, the Arcturians, we can Safely Assume that Mankind has Colonized many Worlds, and Mined Many too.

By the time we get to Alien Resurrection we can only Speculate as to how many Alien Species that Mankind have had Contact with.

Also by Virtue of the Engineers Plot, it is Likely there are other Worlds they have Created/Evolved other Alien Species, are they all Humanoid?  If the Engineers have done so, but at some point prior to ALIEN our Engineers are GONE... or by ALIENS.... 

If the Engineers had Created other Species on other Worlds, you would Safely Assume that Eventually Mankind would DISCOVER them... or maybe THEY would Discover us.

So there is Potential to Steer Away from ALIEN and Xenomorphs be it A.I or other Alien Species... but then also there are other ways to go about Xenomorphs or Similar Horrors too.

When looking back at the Franchise (i will NOT inc the AVP Movies) then i think for the Most Part all we can do is mainly Speculate.  Now some of that can be Shaped Different depending on WHICH versions we take into account.

Each Movie has some Conflicts and Bugs there are some Differences Particularly when we Connect the Prequels to ALIEN but then we have discussed things such as the Derelict vs Juggernaught, Engineer vs Space Jockey, the Cave vs Cargo Hold and the Davids Xenomorph vs Alien Xenomorphs... these have been covered a LOT.

So in Context to your Post DK then i would agree the Weyland-Yutani Company have played a HUGE Role, they are a KEY element, and something that IF we got any Conclusion then maybe we could have seen WHY they became to Central.

Ripley also played a KEY Role in the First 4 Movies, because as Ignorantguy pointed out in Alien Resurrection we see that W-Y had been brought out by Walmart but none the LESS the Agenda of some Human Scientists/Company wishing to Obtain a Xenomorph is still at play... Different Company, but Similar Agenda.

Ripley playing the Main Role, but she has NO bearing on the Prequels she was just the Human Heroine Character to overcome the Xenomorph Threat.

Or Xenomorph being what you would ASSUME is the Main Focus of the Franchise, but they are just the ALIEN THREAT that the Humans must overcome...

so we have 6 Movies, and 4 of them Feature Ripley, 5 of them Feature the Weyland-Yutani Company in some Form (Weyland for Prometheus), 5 of them Feature the Xenomorph, we have 3 of them that is about the W-Y Company trying to Obtain the Xenomorph

What ALL of the Movies have is A.I/Androids and when i look at all the Movies i do see a Potential Connection to the A.I playing a Large Role.  With Aliens and Alien 3 you could argue that Bishop was Different as he had NO kind of Nefarious Agenda, and Michael Bishop was Human.

But when trying to ADD how things can Connect from Movie to Movie, then Bishop did seem to know or would have been aware of HOW the Eggs got on the Sulaco or he indeed did by the Time he was Activated by Ripley. so you could Ponder what Role had A.I or Bishop in this.

Ash seemed to be VERY interested in the Xenomorph he Admired it a lot, which maybe takes on a Whole New Light if he is aware that his Ancestor (David) had Created it.

Then we come to AR... there is that Back Ground revelation about CALL where we know the Autons are Synthetics Created by Synthetics and so 200 Years after ALIENS we do see that the Earth (well some Cities) is in a Bad Shape, we have Synthetics going around to Sub-Create and seeing their Sub-Creation for a Rebellion (Autons) and so i think that behind the Scenes we see that A.I and Sub-Creation are playing a HUGE role.

@ignorantguy, we will have to agree to disagree about Ridley Scott’s genius status. I would just point out that his “RidleyGram” storyboards are legendary in the business. Actors, who jump at the chance to work with him, are on record as describing him as a genius.

Kubrick’s behaviour that you mention is exactly my point. Kubrick hid himself away and focused on a small number of works to the exclusion of everything else. Scott has his fingers in too many pies in my opinion.

G. I. Jane: features the Razzie 1997 award for worst actress.

A Good Year: described as a comedy, but featuring very little in the way of humour. Tedious story.

Making decisions based mostly on emotions is not smart, you got to think things through to try to make the best out of the situation. You can not make people like a parody if you want your movie to be taken seriously because they are a big part of making it work. If the characters do not work you do not have a movie, to me it is as simple as that. They made their own bed and now we have what we have.

Covenant has less annoying characters but Prometheus looks better. On the other hand it is too much about the robots in Covenant and less so in Prometheus. I agree with DK about Prometheus on leaving out the Xeno Fifield and having less cut out scenes. The major problem with both of them is that they lack good characters while that was not a problem with 1, 2, and 3.

To me there is 1, 2, and 3, the rest do not really matter even if there are parts of them that are interesting to discuss. Even though they are not perfect at least they are not about robots and most of the characters are at least alright.

GI Jane is okay yes people have different tastes and there might be people that read this that react with "whaattt?????" but that is not a problem because art is subjective. I would probably rather watch that movie compared to Covenant, LOL. For now it seems that AC effed up the franchise and I would rather watch the short movies.

hox Sorry but I would not say RS is a genius, yes he has a very keen eye and can make movies very efficiently. You know what Kubrick did between movies? He stayed in the effin library to document himself in order to make his masterpiece movies. RS never did that ... he did not find Do android dream of .... interesting enough to finish the book. In all honesty a good part of Alien would like different weren't for 2001. And you know what, Blade Runner was not even the first movie to mix Noir with Sci-fi, that would be Alphaville.

Kubrick hated the Hollywood system, while RS is a good "businessman". He is definitely not a victim here.

I would like to know why do you consider GI Jane and A Good Year as his worse, as many of his movie on Metacritic are 50 or below. Are those not sadistic enough for your taste? 

I enjoy AVP and Resurrection. They are great popcorn flicks and that is why I didn't take the Walmart reference seriously- I thought it was just mor being jaded and cynical like the general tone of the characters were. 

hox brings up a good point referencing from Aliens that 400 worlds were surveyed by WY. I could imagine Cameron making a movie based off that just like Scott made a movie based on the SJ. Same rationale: Camron: "No one ever picked up the reference about those other worlds and that's why I am making Aliens 1.5."

I wouldn’t let facts get in the way of a good story. I mean, if we’re sticking to what actually happened on screen, we’re lumbered with Predators harvesting Alien Queens on Earth going back thousands of years (AVP). Disclosure and guilty pleasure: I do like that movie.

The Company should not have met a similar fate to Newt and Hicks. Such a waste of something that almost amounts to a character in itself.

With “over 400 surveyed worlds” in the time of Aliens, there is plenty of scope for setting stories on far-flung reaches of the Galaxy where WY’s evil influence reigns supreme.

@dk, it’s a pity you won’t see the prequels again. I’ve seen Prometheus and Covenant countless times and - despite their faults - enjoy them hugely. I cannot say the same for the final movie of the quadrilogy, which I grudgingly watch every few years to keep my hand in!

I don’t think there’s any doubt that Prometheus & Covenant would be far worse movies had Ridley Scott not been onboard. My problem with Ridley is that he’s spread himself too thinly. With his executive producing roles he must spend morning, day and night overseeing his multitude of interests. That might be fun for him, but it’s a shame for us. When I contrast his rampant production promiscuity with, say, Stanley Kubrick, I find myself wondering where we’d be now if Ridley had spent his life differently, turning his genius toward making a few select movies. Almost without exception, Kubrick made a small number of truly outstanding works. Sure, he led a weird life verging on the antisocial, but he’s left us with a brilliant heritage. Ridley has left us “A Good Year” and “G.I. Jane”, to mention just two of his stonking turkeys.

The other side of the coin is studio interference. Kubrick was able to bat away the MGM suits, because his stature towered above each and every nervous executive. What a shame that Fox bent Scott to their will by forcing the Big Boy back into the frame at the end of Covenant. Still, in 2020 what can he do about that. Disney’s controlling hand will likely be as bad as the overarching dominance of Weyland-Yutani in years to come.

ignorantGuy Agree. Personally, I will stick with the Quadilogy and although I have the prequels, I probably will not ever watch them again. Last year's Alien Day's IGN shorts series are still worth watching as well.

I consider the series as done- but I still like to discuss and debate aspects of it. 

dk ... will the corona situation you won't a confirmation anytime soon. And if we go into a big economic crisis who knows if they would be willing to invest on franchise with diminishing returns.

I think it would be safe to assume that it is dead for the near future.

ignorantGuy I agree a documentary about that would be worth watching. No argument there. I would imagine that there would be heated interviews if key people even agreed to participate or might have gag orders from FOX/Disney or possibly RS. I would pay to see it as well. However, as much as I enjoy discussion/debate/speculation, I honestly would like to see the franchise shit or get off the pot. Little teases and rumors grow tiresome after a while, yes? Either confirm a continuation, or cut it off and let it die with dignity.

Can we really know for sure dk what happened during 2012 and 2017, so of course it will be an opinion piece. I bring it up to have something interesting to talk about, on how much do find plausible that the author nailed.... 

And because I am interested to know what happened and I would give money to see a documentary about it... Talking about where the series should go next.

The article brings up some good points, but ultimately feels like an opinion piece- which is ok I guess.

Here is the down and dirty. Prometheus would have been a fantastic sci fi movie if it would have been a stand alone movie with no connections, even aesthetically, to the Alienverse. Just my opinion.

Leto Well, judging what the article says neither Alien Engineers nor Covenant is what Ridley Scott wanted to make.

I think Prometheus would have been better and smoother with most deleted scenes added and also adding the CGI Fifeld berserker scene.

AC might have been better if I hadn't seen some of the trailers and viral videos that probably made my expectations unrealistic. Those videos had more depth than the actual movie imo.

Both movies could have had better character development.

Good point- I forgot Walmart bought out WY lol. Although extremely diluted xeno blood in soda or spirits is an entertaining thought. 

Covenant is a smoother and more consistent film than Prometheus. It just works better, like a story.

But Prometheus has more inspiration and original ideas. It is a wonderful soil to begin to create.

And guess what?!

Alien: Engineers had both components! It was a smooth, consistent story with tons of new ideas and amazing inspiration from new discoveries.

his miss winter . . . .any more news on your aliensverse books? . . . .way too long :)

"After going through it from recollection, it seems that Weyland/Yutani  is involved in every movie and maybe its sinister agenda might be a fresh way to go." - not quite true as by Resurrection it was bought up by Walmart. And there was no agenda in Alien Covenant. But I wonder if Walmart would sell Xeno-Cola (we already have made food additives from the beaver's anal gland), i think it would be very fizzy.

But I doubt that putting that to the forefront will be very successful. 

BigDave at first I would have thought that this post would talk about RS' new movie with Lady Gaga :P

Honestly I don't think that we could say anything about the enginner tech. Were they on a decline in the last 2000 years? Who knows.

But I'm pretty sure that the Teardrop shaped ships were long abandoned by the 22nd century, and any evidence of their existence lost in time (like tears in the rain ...)

the scorpion ship was a true ship or just a floating structure? Can you see from just the movie. But these will not even be mentioned.

Thanks, Jay, for being part of one of the best sci fi series out there. You are forever canon to the Alienverse. R.I.P.

I certainly think thats something to Consider.

However it could also not be a Indication of a GOD, Murals are sometimes made to Depict certain Acts, Accomplishments as well as Figures or Importance.

There was a lot of Speculation about the Mural, especially since the Space Jesus was kind of indicated by RS, which lead to Speculation that the Cruciform Pose of the Mural must indicate this is a GODLIKE Figure.

Bare with me a bit ;)

The Cruciform Pose of Christ is such that it represents NOT the LORD but the Savior, in that through his Sacrifice on the Cross that Mankind has Redemption, a Chance to be Saved.  The Greatest Deed of Gods Will was the Sacrifice of Christ.

So a Cruciform Pose mainly would Symbolize Sacrifice which is something the Engineers are Very Into and it HOLDS a great Importance.

When we look at LV-223 we know that Clues to this Place have been left on Earth for at least 35'000 Years, this does-not mean that for 35'000 Years that Mural had been there and for 33'000 Years they had Experimented on stuff related to the Mural before decided to UNLEASH it and then things WENT to POT.

So maybe at some point some Engineers or the Entire Civilization had began to Experiment with Horrors that related to the Black Goo and the Mural, the Cruciform Pose could be they Created something to Worship, but then through Many Cultures that Depict Gods they are not really depicted in Cruciform Pose for the Most Part.

My Interpretation is they Encountered something that they Sacrificed, or they had Created Something they then Sacrificed, and Regardless of Which... this is depicted in the Mural of being of GREAT Benefit to those Engineers.

Was it only a Faction of Engineers who undertook such Experiments?  Would this be why they could in part be Considered the Fallen Angels as Ridley Scott had indicated.

Or was their Entire Hierarchy in on this Agenda and so the ENTIRE or Most of the Engineers Society are Evil/Fallen?

I think that David could give us some Clues.. as far as Repeating of History....  i would NOT have been Surprised if Alien Covenant had shown a MURAL of Dr Shaw in Cruciform Pose to Symbolize her Sacrifice had allowed for his Masterpiece...

Sorry if this is a Little Off Topic

I think trying to TIE things together is something that has Many ways they could be Explored.  Do we look at Lucifer and Paradise Lost in more Detail, do we look at Prometheus?  I would say we can look at Everything but maybe NOT try and look too Literal at any ONE thing. But certainly TRY and see how we could Connect them.

I think the Watchers and Book of Enoch could be something else to Consider too.  I think we could look at Samyaza, it would depend on how Literally we try and Connect it.   Would we consider that some Engineers had a LUST for Human Females if so WHY?

Planet 4 Engineers have Females, so WHY go after Humans, unless the Daughters of Man are more Attractive to them, or the Engineers are SET in Ritual Ways where Procreation and Sex is something that there Culture has Forbidden, as far as the LUST and Pleasures of SEX?

Has the Basis of the Engineers PLOT changed from Inception? as prior to Prometheus it was that these Engineers had Engineered Themselves Sterile...... was the Creation of Mankind to Obtain Females to allow they to Procreate, but this was ONLY as far as to obtain the Seed/Egg to then Procreate in a LAB and thus SEX is Shunned?

We dont know for sure as it could be the Engineers on Planet 4 and the Females would predate Mankind, if so maybe Interbreeding with Humans is Forbidden?

Another aspect of Semyaza if i can remember right was the Rebellion against the Rules/Ways of GOD and a Attempt to Create their Own Rules/Rituals and Religion.

In Context to the Franchise, then any Engineers who would attempt to Create/Teach Ways and Rituals that are Against or Do-Not Follow the Ways/Rituals of the Founders would be Consider a Fall.

There are so Many ways these things could FIT, was Mankind Created for a Simple Purpose to be as Cavemen.. and so the Engineers who Visited us and Taught us stuff, was these Engineers Teaching Forbidden Stuff or trying to MOLD us to Worship them as GODS... which is NOT the intention the Hierarchy/Founders of the Engineers may have had Planned, in which case such a Action would be Fallen.

This is the BEAUTY of the Plot and HOW it connects to Various Cultures, Religions and what we are shown, as its BOLD and is VERY open to how you Explore/Connect these things, but this also becomes the Poisoned Chalice of the PLOT.... HOW do you Connect it all?  (reason WHY i Abandoned doing Stories that Continued after Prometheus). I could not find a Complete Answer.

If the Engineers on LV-223 are "exotic dark angels" analogous to the Book of Enoch's Sons of God/ Watchers, why are they shown to be somewhat worshipping the protomorph in the ampule room?  That is, if they are akin to the angels who did not keep their first estate, why are they found worshipping this creature instead of a leader angel akin to Lucifer or Semyaza? Or with this being an existential universe, is it that they rebelled against their original creator/ master, placing their faith in dark science, instead of waiting for a messiah, they engineered one, a Lovecraftian god, the protomorph equivalent to the blind idiot god (the proto- xenomorphs unable to see), Azathoth, and they become its pipers, creating a chaotic, uncaring, universe, opposite to their creator's intent?

Absolutely Maxeno (Welcome Aboard)

This appeared to be the Intention as of 2010, but as i have discussed before a number of Times in the Past, then Notion of Human looking beings in a Space Suit is maybe NOT something just Pulled Out of the air by Jon Spaights.

As this seemed to  be the Indication in HR Gigers Concepts from 1977-1978.

I know such Revelations had not settled with some Fans, which is why in this Topic i offer them a chance to Voice how they Feel but mainly to look at WHAT kind of Alternative they would like to see.

NOT that its likely they would get what they want though ;)

I think its open for them to Introduce something else... Be that...

*Another Humanoid like the Engineers/Humans but Taller.

*A Bi-pedal Humanoid that is FAR from Human Looking.

*A Bio-Mechanical Being/Entity.

But certainly prior to Alien Covenant the Intention was to show that the Space Jockey was a Engineer or Related.  With the release of Alien Covenant then the Space Jockey as a Engineer is something that could CHANGE.

I suspect that IF that Changes However, then it would likely be some other Species that David Creates... or David in some Engineered New Body he has Created. Thats the suspicion i have if things had Continued... i think that it would have been like 40% Chance of something like that, with a 40% it would be a Engineer leaving 20% Chance of it being some other Race Connected to the Engineers.

Unfortunately unless its Created by David, then i cant see the Space Jockey being revealed as something that is either FAR from Human or a Bio-Mechanical being.

With Disney in Charge, i think they may even SKIP the Space Jockey, and move away from the Prequels... or in TIME they may give something that maybe they FEEL the Fans would want.

R.I.P another Life Taken Early due to this Affliction to Humanity, may he Rest in Peace and may this Outbreak soon come to a End.

I hope everyone Stays Safe and Stay Strong

Dave

I think it's clear it is an that the SJ was/is an engineer.  The orginal Prometheus story had an engineer.  Before Damon got a hold of it.

It's possible that the neomorph can rapidly secrete a highly acidic form of 'saliva'. As BigDave mentions, David's wrist looks melted. You can clearly see a burn mark on his sleeve.

There was a lot of potential with the creature. I liked actually that it stood up in front of david and was mesmerized by him somehow. David not being a lifeform somehow causes it to see no threat or reason to attack it McDVOICE