Comments (Page 173)

To Continue....

Next we come to Ripley 8 and again was the Number 8 just a Coincidence?

We see that via the Infection of Ripley's DNA with the Xenomorph DNA, what this does with a Successful Clone of Ripley is Provide us with a Humanoid that is Enhanced in many ways over a Human, and also has some degree of Regeneration.

We can only Speculate to what LEVEL of Regeneration and to what kind of LIFE EXPECTANCY the Ripley 8 could have.  She Certainly had a SHELL that is more Superior to a Human and Hard Wearing.

What we also see is that SOMEHOW the Ripley 8 Clone has managed to gain some of Ellen Ripleys Memories and so there is some kind of  Genetic Memory Transfer and so Ripley 8 has gained some of Ripley's Soul.

How much of her Memories would eventually be gained is up for Speculation, but Discovering this would make Scientist see there is some reason for it and something to STUDY in the HOPE of being able to use it as a KEY to Total Conscious Transfer.

So again we can see that Ripley 8 is a KEY to some kind of Immortality.   The Xenomorph being the KEY to this. And so the STUDY on Ripley 8 could provide a way to Unlock Immortality.

If we look at the Xenomorph in this Context, and that its Precursor that the Engineers where Experimenting with, then MAYBE if we look at the Engineers as using this ORGANISM as a means to Enhance themselves but also GAIN some Genetic Memory Transfer and so the Xenomorph Ancestors were something the Engineers had been using to TRY and gain IMMORTALITY.

This would make a PERFECT SENSE to WHY the Engineers would be Interested and MESS ABOUT with such a Parasite and would OPEN a better reason for the Pursuit of the Xenomorph by the Company.

Than just the BASIC idea that they want them simply to DESTROY/KILL.

I think exploring such ideas are a way to expand the Franchise, to go deeper... the same would be said with the A.I Synthetics if this was Weylands Attempts to CHEAT his DEATH too.

Things could TURN some kind of Full Circle if we look into such things... For example ask yourself this.... if the USM company was after the Xenomorph as a Bio-Weapon, then what would they make of Ripley 8?

Would Ripley 8 not be a more Viable Bio-Weapon? she could be used to Unlock some kind of Immortality, but also her DNA could be used to make some Pretty Much Superior Military Personnel... but IF they eventually did this... could these Enhanced Beings REBEL and see themselves as Superior?

This is ONE theme i explore with my Parallel Alien Resurrection Movie idea.

I had not noticed until now, but the 8 turned on its side to represent the infinity sign is interesting.

In Ripley's case though, clones seem to die out sooner than the original. 

Certainly i think while its interesting to look at some Significance's of the Number 8, for me the Main Focus in regards to this TOPIC is that indeed the Number 8 on its side does represent Infinity which in itself represents something that Continuous, Endless and so it connects with something that Lasts Forever and so  it connects to Immortality to a degree.

As mentioned in the TOPIC what we see is that both David and Ripley carry the  Number 8 as seen in the Franchise, David 8 in regards to Weylands Personal Synthetic  and Ripley 8 in regards to a Xenomorph/Human Hybrid.

Both are the Closest we see to Immortal in the Franchise.

Regarding Peter Weyland then i think we can Speculate that he would have been interested in and attempted to Discover ways to Extend is Life.  We can only Speculate to what kind of Research had had made on this Subject.

He was coming to the END of his Life and the Potential that Dr Shaw and Holloway had discovered where we could MEET our MAKERS was kind of the Last Throw of the Dice for Weyland.

The Engineers were a Superior Species for Certain, we can Assume of Hundreds of Thousands of Years or Longer they had attempted and maybe made Scientific Advancements to Prolong their Lives.  To what END they had achieved this we surely can only Speculate, but we have to WONDER exactly what Weyland was Expecting  some Magical Elixir of Life?  Some kind of Genetic Engineering to CHANGE the Dying Carcass of Mr Weyland?

Surely they cant GRANT him Entry to some Eternal Spiritual Pane of Existence?  I am not sure the Franchise would have expanded to give us a ACTUAL real Spiritual Soul and Realm.

You mention about maybe Weyland wanted them to Transfer his Soul into David..... i am not so sure they could do that, or maybe this is what Weyland had HOPED for.

I would NOT rule out this being something that Weyland had HOPED for himself as far as all of his WORK (or some in part).

Weyland had mentioned that David does-not have a SOUL but then what is a SOUL?

1) The determination of HOW Good/Bad a Person is, so a Person who is Kind, Empathetic and puts others First would be considered to have a GOOD SOUL.

2) Putting your Heart and Soul into something, being Very Dedicated and Passionate with a Subject, Interest or Work that you carry out.

3) The collection of Memories and Experiences that you have gained during your Life, your Consciousness and what makes you a Person, which is Shaped by Influences and Life you are Exposed to while Growing Up.

With these THREE then there is NO reason why David has NO SOUL if these are what a Soul is...  But NONE of these make you IMMORTAL.

4) Spiritual Soul that goes onto to another Pane of Eternal Existence when we DIE (for the selected few).  Well David does not really have this... NOT in the traditional sense... but does Mankind?  Weyland would surely know NOW.

However what we see with David as a A.I. means we Can-Not rule out that David has some kind of Pseudo Immortality in this sense... it really depends if we can take the David 8 Promotional Marketing as CANON and also if with Alien Covenant our David is still David 8.

For David from Alien Covenant's Prologue is the FIRST of his Kind, we have to can SAFELY ASSUME, and so this is a Established Fact, and so with Prometheus if we accept that there had been IMPROVEMENTS to the David Models over the Years, then WHY would Weyland want to take a Older In-superior Model with him as his Personal Assistant?

HOWEVER... as a A.I. we can assume that you could UPLOAD and STORE the Memories, Experiences, Emotions and Consciousness of sorts of David and Transfer this to a Improved Model, a Improved SHELL.

So this would mean that David actually could have a IMMORTAL SOUL and so could go onto a After-Life/Resurrection after his BODY has Failed.

If Weyland could Figure a way out to Transcend a Human Soul into a A.I like Dr. Will Caster had in the Movie Transcendence.... then Weyland could Transfer this to a Synthetic BODY... and he would have Conquered his Mortality... This is what i was touching upon with my Prometheus 2 Story that i abandoned in 2013 after i LOST it, Project Rook.... but while Weyland had Achieved this, the A.I Program could not Handle Emotions and eventually would TURN MAD and be a Tortured/Imperfect Soul and this is WHY he then Turned to Dr Shaw and her Chasing Gods!

Maybe some of the Tools (Synapse Restablisher, Dream Visor) from Prometheus where intended to be methods to obtain a Immortality this way?.

We see that David starts to gain Emotions and that he becomes VERY unstable in Alien Covenant.

And so indeed we could look at David as being able to Posses Immortality.  Was this the Intention of giving him the Number 8 or is this just Coincidence?

Nice topic!

I'd think Peter Weyland would have long ago (2070's) uploaded or created an A.I version of himself. A vast server core located somewhere on Mars.

It would make sense if Peter's AI is pulling the strings...He is still seeking answers...Sending spacecraft to distant dangerous worlds....with little concern over the safety of their crews...Just bring back alien specimens at all costs.

Cool to have David meet his father's AI.

Peter(AI) "I was a good father?"

David "The best"

Definitely think Shaw is alive. The body on the table could be an engineer female teenager that David put a wig made from his own hair on to make it look more like Shaw since he loves her and she escaped. The grave a decoy.

Why a decoy you ask? In the bluray extras didn't he send transmissions back to WY? When he gets on board the Covenant he uses a clearance code so someone high ranking at WY gave him clearance, knew to open the ship's battery saver thing and make it look like an accident. They knew Shaw made a call out because David told them so the grave was to cover up her escape.

I'm assuming there is a conflict in interest between Weiland and Yutani branches and this project needed full secrecy. The high ranked WY big boss must have known she escaped so they also sent Walter so David could impersonate him if need be. All they care about is David's knowledge. Crew expendable. David is rogue obviously but WY don't know that. 

This topic is an excellent way to lay out some of the core concepts in the prequels BigDave.  I will attempt to discuss/debate the scope of what you cite above across multiple comments.

The Attempt to Manufacture Immortality

"Mr Weyland is surely more a Man of Science than Faith, even though he wanted a Believer on board the Prometheus, it would seem that FAITH in the After-Life is the Last Resort for Peter Weyland and he would rather NOT take such a Gamble."

True.  

In a similar fashion as to how one may choose a certain stock or mutual fund, to me, Peter Weyland included Dr. Shaw (with faith) to diversify his crew in regards to belief systems.

Why 8?: David 8, Ripley 8

The number 8 is revered across multiple cultures and personal belief systems.  8 itself is very similar to the infinity symbol if not believed to be identical, see below.  

"Eight is represented in “The Magic Star of Venus,” and by the Chaldeans as the 8-pointed Star of Venus. Amongst the Jews, 8 is the number of circumcision, because that ceremony took place on the eighth day.

In Christianity there are eight beatitudes: poverty of spirit; mourning; meekness; desire of righteousness; mercy; purity of heart; the peacemaker; and suffering for the sake of righteousness. Saint Joseph endured during eight years various great sufferings before to die. We find 8 again in the story of Noah’s Ark in which the deluge was commemorated by eight persons who had been saved in the ark.

This is also represented in Freemasonry as the degrees of the Royal Ark Mariners, the Noachites, and the Ark and Dove." (source)

Creation

"The twist Prometheus puts on the question is, 'What if the answer is in the heavens, but instead of a bearded deity, what if our creators were extraterrestrials? And, if so, who or what created them?'” (source)

This conversation continued on when Capitan Oram asked David what he believed in (response: "Creation").  Dr. Shaw clarified the question with her answer to Charlie when he mentioned she should take off her Cross with:

"Who created them?"

It seems that Peter Weyland believed David was a vessel that the Engineers could pour him into and "save" him from death.  This belief system was shattered when the Engineer hit the OFF button on his forehead.

Nice try though Mr. Weyland, below.

The Eight Immortals Symbol

"The symbol of eight immortals is considered to be an especially powerful cure because we are now in the so-called period 8 feng shui. Number eight, in general, is very lucky, as it is the number of infinity and never-ending blessings." (source)

Conclusion

"never-ending blessings."....well, I believe, we can gather from Prometheus and Alien: Covenant that David 8 doesn't practice Feng Shui.

When looking at IMMORTALITY the Prequels seem to Tackle this on Multiple Levels...

*We have the Spiritual After-Life of Faith, which was touched upon a bit through Dr Shaw (inc Flash Backs) a Immortality that is a Reward to those who Appease their Makers.

*We have Technological/Medical Advancements that could Enhance the Life Expectancy of Person, and we can assume maybe the Engineers had achieved some Great Advancements like this...  This seemed to be the Indication with Jon Spaights Drafts.

*We have Synthetics like David who have a kind of Immortality, as with A.I.  And we can assume as a Machine that his SOUL can be Stored and Transferred to a NEW Body if his Old Body Fails... this would in essence make David kind of Pseudo Immortal.

However there are other ways to be Immortalized which we see to a degree in the Prequels.

*Arts and Creation can leave a Legacy, people such as Mozart and Elvis are Immortalized via their Music, just as a Picasso and Da Vinci via there Art. 

*Fame can also Immortalize people for a Little While at least, which includes Well Known Musicians, and Actors and Sports Professionals.

*Inventors and Pioneers via their Discovers, Creations and Works.

*Kings, Tyrants and Political Figures can also leave a Lasting Legacy, and be Remembered in the History Books sometimes for Good and sometimes for Bad.

For these kinds of People they can be Immortalized with Monuments, Paintings and other Records.

The Ozymandias poem touches on these, by Virtue of showing that even a Great King with Monuments erected in their Name... will Eventually DIE and in Time all that remains of Such Monuments are Wrecks lost in the Desert Sands....   But ALAS none of these will Last FOREVER.

The Prologue of Alien Covenant we are witnessing Creation with David's Activation, but in this Room are many Creations, be it the Art (Nativity Painting), The Statue of David, the Bugatti Chair and Steinway Piano.  These all leave a Legacy of their Creators and Weylands has Achieved one of the Greatest Creations YET!

DAVID... as disused before A.I would have a kind of Immortality and if there was EVER a Time when a Human could TRANSCEND their Soul to A.I. (like in the Movie Transcendence) then this would be in effect a After-Life of Sorts... if you can Transfer this into a BODY be it a Synthetic or a Organic Body (see Movie The Sixth Day) then this would in effect be a kind of Immortality.

Would Weyland had attempted Similar?

Had the Engineers attempted Similar or Achieved such?

In Jon Spaights Pitch for a ALIEN Prequel he did a Paper that was ALIEN 01 The Master Narrative where he described the Engineers trying to Achieve Godhead in effect a attempt to Transcend past their Psychical Bodies into a another Realm/Pane of Existence which in essence is the Pursuit of a Alternative Existence a After-Life/Immortality if you would.   This HOWEVER was never touched upon in the Later Drafts or Movies.

If some Engineers had achieved this or came Close, then this would be the GIFT that Weyland would have hoped the Engineers had achieved and could GRANT him.   A more Closer Immortality would indeed come from the Ability to Transcend a Soul to a A.I that can be Uploaded to a New Body be that Organic, Synthetic or a Combination.

And FINALLY we come to the XENOMORPH!

We heard Ridley Scott suggest the Xenomorph would Regenerate and this is a Kind Of Immortality, it depends to what extent that it can Regenerate, and if its Soul/Memories can Live on.

Which brings me to RIPLEY 8 as we see from the Cloning of her what we have is a Hybrid that can Regenerate, that is Stronger, Faster than a Human and that has regained some Memories of Ellen Ripley.

You could say that Ripley 8 and David 8 are the Closest we have seen to IMMORTALITY in the Franchise.

Without the Xenomorph Merger of DNA then we would NOT have Ripley 8 and so we could see that the Xenomorph has some way to UNLOCK some kind of IMMORTALITY.

If this is the CASE then it would give better reason for WHY the Engineers would be conducting Experiments on the Xenomorph, well its Predecessors.  Could these Experiments had been a attempt at GODHEAD?

So in CLOSING... there is a Lot to do with Immortality in the Franchise and it would appear the Xenomorph (Predecessors) and A.I seem the most likely ROAD to Immortality.

Feel free to discus away from Context of the Franchise too, because indeed Genetic Engineering is a Path to Extending Life, the Advent of Advanced A.I could Herald a After-Life/Immortality if we achieve what was shown in the Movie Transcendence.  If we take Blade Runner and Cross that with The Sixth Day then we also have a kind of Immortality....

Can Science Achieved these things?  Time will Tell and WHO knows what we can expect in 100 Years, or a THOUSAND.

I will say going back to the OT

That we may not see the Engineers Killed Off.... i just was not sure we would see much about them apart from seeing these guys.

The Problem is HOW do you introduce the Engineers again and WHAT kind of Engineers.

A lot depends on IF its revealed that Planet 4 is the ONLY World where the Engineers held a Civilization that was Ancient.  By that if there are other Worlds that would have Cities like we saw in Alien Covenant, even if these Cities have a bit more of a Bio-Mechanical HR Giger look but they dont have to.

Looking at the SET-UP for the Sequel then its HOW do you visit such a World or Engineers?  

Because the Base of the Plot would seem to be to FOLLOW what ever David does Next, but it seems that some Engineers will Return but they would likely be a Returning Group who Discover the Destruction on Planet 4.

Ridley Scott said they would do so, and they would NOT be Pleased about what has Happened on Planet 4 with such a Plot Revelation and the Reaction to the AC Engineers, it would seem likely the Engineers who arrive would do so on Juggernauts and be the Same Kind as on LV-223.

So we would not really get much Answers about the Engineers as far as their Agenda, Culture.  It will likely be those Military Enhanced Types that will likely be Explored and i guess the only way we would see any different would be via a Flash Back like Scene... but then its HOW would this be required for the Plot?

Unless we have a Future Movie where either David or Weyland-Yutani can get some Engineer Ships and be able to Pin-Point one of their other Worlds and OFF WE GO?

I have said this quite a bit.... but they NEVER had to go to show us Planet 4 being so CLOSE.. they could have had David and Dr Shaw travel to a FAR FAR away World.

But how do you introduce more Humans?  I mentioned quite a bit that can we assume the Following?

1) The Earth is the ONLY place where Humans had been Seeded? and was Earth our Origin?

2) Could the Engineers had taken some Humans from Earth and placed them on other Worlds?

Imagine if Dr Shaw arrived at a Place where Humans and Engineers seemed to LIVE in Harmony some place FAR FAR away?

Off-course things can GO TO POT... how do the Engineers react to David? would they be Concerned at what Influence that Dr Shaw and her Faith could have on those Humans?

There was a lot of Potential... than to just END UP with us Chasing the Dragon.

I just think we would ONLY be limited to the LV-223 Types who will only have one Agenda.... DESTROY and ASK no Questions.. or a FEW.  There is nothing WRONG with those Guys... its just i cant see them doing much more than HULK SMASH!  Which would be such a Limitation on a Enigmatic Race.

"a mystery box"

Certainly and such Ambiguity is Good as it Fuels Debates and Speculation, but it also Nice to think that they had Answers but they just do-not show them....

But the Question would be DO THEY really have Answers?

To a degree i would say YES they did as FAR as the Xenomorph but it was left a bit Ambiguous to HOW the Connection was with the Inception...  Then Prometheus had made things more Vague... but we could DRAW a Few Conclusions.. (prior to Alien Covenants change in part of the Origins, but i do think they have the A-Z of the Origins Planed out just they changed the GUY who did it).

They However Felt that the Bigger Story to be TOLD is the Engineers and Creation and other Themes... and as FAR as these go as FAR as Answers/Plans... then who knows, it appears they Struggled to Really come up with a A-Z of that Story that they could stick too...   Prometheus raised some Questions with the Engineers/Humanity and other Creations that was BOLD with a Massive Scope... but did they and could they FIND a way to explore that Scope?  I think they struggled because these Themes/Plots had become something that was a Poisoned Chalice to take on.

The Qeustion is before and after Lindelof was brought in, then did they have a Plan or Answers regarding the Engineers in relation to other things than just the Connection to the Horrors of LV-223.... i think these are AREAS that maybe they just CANT really keep to a Story they are Happy with.... comes across as they KEEP on Changing their Minds, or are making it up as they go ALONG.

Prometheus was FAR from Perfect... i think it should be Applauded for trying to expand the Franchise beyond Xenomorphs which in effect seemed to be indicated as a Biological Weapon they either Created, or a Result of a Biological Weapon they Created.

I have already said that in HINDSIGHT... they Toned Down what Alien Engineers had too much... they needed a Balance between Spaights and Lindeloffs work...  But Hindsight is a Wonderful thing.

Regarding AC... i think it was a Error... but i Understand as to WHY it was done... it was ONE part having to Cave In and bring back the Beast and Answers... and in another Part maybe NOT having a idea on HOW to Continue away from ALIEN.

Does a Movie about Dr Shaw and David work? would you need other Human Characters and HOW do you introduce them if Dr Shaw and David are off to FIND the Engineers Home-World?

How do David and Dr Shaw interact with any Engineers they Discover, how likely would they Survive if these Engineers would NOT be pleased with them Turning Up?

So it was a Plot that was Difficult to deal with (a Sequel to Prometheus) and so Alien Covenant became a more Simple Story to Tell.

The Killing Off of Dr Shaw and the Engineers did take away a lot of the Path to Answers from Questions that a Sequel would maybe Answer...

But it was NOT to Worry as we would get the Answers well we would START the Path to the Xenomorph Origins and bring the Beast Back..... but having David as a Creator is something that has NOT sat well with Fans..

Its a BITTER PILL to Swallow but One that i have Accepted and am not that Effected by... but a lot of people think otherwise.

For me it FITS well.. Perfectly with the Themes/Arc of David and Prometheus... i just feel that having him CREATE a Ultramorph would have Fitted the Themes just as WELL but Maintain the Xenomorph Origins as Ancient and also maybe a Mystery.

"the plot suddenly changed when Peter Wayland appeared! And now this film not about origin of mankind, but about a man who wants to become immortal"

Its interesting you bring that UP because to a degree then YES this was also one of the MAIN Themes.. a Theme that does-not have to Center around Weyland but a Theme in General.

On Multiple Levels it could have evolved to the Quest for Immortality, a Quest about Improving/Evolution, about Creation and WHY would you Create, it was about the HUBRIS of such things.... which could have been explored on Multiple Layers..

These are what i find Interesting, there are many ways to Speculate about these, and HOW they could be Explored.

So the Engineers were KILLED OFF and Dr Shaw... this does not mean those Themes are Dead, because they are IN PART continued with Davids Arc.... and it would have been Interesting to see how they are Expanded on Next... which Sadly we wont see i dont think.

What RS had indicated about a Sequel seemed interested, but it would seem Disappointing to those who want more Xenomorphs or a Revelation that David does-not Create them, and a Disappointment to those who DONT want to have a Story that uses David as Center Point.

For me i think they could be Interesting... i have discussed such things a lot on here...

What are the Alternatives?

1) David Turns the Covenant into a Xenomorph Laboratory and either.

a) Things get out of Hand and the Ship Crashes or gets Stranded and the Marines Rock Up (well a prepared W-Y Ship).

b) Some Colonist break free and make a Desperate Attempt to Survive this House of Horrors and Escape with a Rescue ship arriving or they Escape in the Lander..

2) We forget about David and the Covenant and we go to a Mission to Planet 4 or LV-223 and have Xenomorphs and Answers that would indicate that David is NOT the Creator?

I suspect that Neither is the Case as FAR as what maybe RS would have Planned Certainly NOT as FAR as the Next Movie...   but i am not sure a lot of ALIEN Fans would be a Fan of that kind of Installment...

RS said we are at least TWO Movies from ALIEN...

It just seems that a Good % of Fans may not want anything like this...

For ME?  i am Perfectly Fine with that... i think the Franchise has to expand beyond Eggs and Xenomorphs.

Clues, keys, answers - sounds more like... a mystery box. And mystery boxes have no answers. That is their essence. This is what they are for. Questions without answers.

It can be long to speculate on possible answers and interpretations - what did the film want to show / what did Ridley Scott mean? We do it on this forum ;)

But answer doesn't exist! No hidden, but just doesn't exist.

Another thing - Prometheus and AC. So, you said that Prometheus did everything (almost) correctly. Ridley was right in all aspects. But AC is huge mistake? Why? Because David create xeno or... AC just not about space bodybuilder philosophers? Not about these strange smiling space gardeners, who create life on the planets and sit in their caves, wrapped in their primitive middle-earth robes. But evil humanity insulted and upset these poor, good gardeners... Sounds like an alien film? No. Maybe sounds like a Prometheus sequel? Not, of course! Ridley wanted to filmed something like this? I doubt.

Prometheus begins as a film about origin of mankind, about the engineers; and why did engineers created people and then wanted to destory them? But... the plot suddenly changed when Peter Wayland appeared! And now this film not about origin of mankind, but about a man who wants to become immortal.

The both themes are very interesting, but they are cramped in one film! This is what I call - ahead of the curve! Prometheus needed to tell a story about the origin of mankind. From and to. And leave the search for immortality for the next film.

AC is a story about colonists who landed on a strange planet and are trying to survive. Plus some of David's thoughts, plus some philosophy and cultural heritage.

Simple - yes!

Laconically - yes!

Some questions - yes!

Some mystery boxes - no!

AC has a kind of spine.

Prometheus is more inspiring, I vehemently agree. But the plot is a kind of anthology of small stories and ideas implemented in one film.

Alien Covenant has a solid story that runs from A to Z. Although a couple of letters may have been lost, but it doesn’t matter.

The both films are great. But they all come from Alien: Engineers. This is was the one story, whose ideas were taken separately for Prometheus and Covenant.

"Was it worth it?"

I think that comes down to the Purpose of a Prequel.

After Alien Resurrection you had to Consider the Options.  It was about 2009 when FOX had been Plotting to do another ALIEN Movie... there was interest early 2001 i think but then FOX decided to push with AVP.

So we are in 2009 and its a case of WHERE NEXT?

A Continuation of Alien Resurrection.. but then Miss Weaver would have been 13 Years Older than when she SHOT that Movie and Winona Ryder and so would you expect a Android and a Ripley 8 to AGE?  But they could have expanded on AR and NOT have covered these Characters.

The other OPTIONS being... to ASK. Is there something to be GOT from LV-426 but then WHY would they result to Clone Ripley?  That does-not mean they could not have given a Sequel to ALIEN 3 but at its Conclusion show the Destruction of LV-426 which would leave Ripley DNA as the only viable Source for the Xenomorph.

They could have gone for a Parallel Story as FAR as the Time-Line.  For Example...  Had someone been to the Derelict prior to the Nostromo and so what caused Special Order 937 to come into effect?   Could someone had gone to the Derelict after the events of ALIEN but prior to Hadleys Hope? (This is what Alien Isolation had done).  

Or is the Derelict and LV-426 the ONLY place that there are/have been Xenomorph Eggs?

But when Spaights came in to Pitch a Alien idea they had decided that you could do a Prequel... because NO-ONE had ever explored the Xenomorph Origins and WHO the Space Jockey was.

Jon Spaights had said that prior to him coming on board FOX had a Story that was basically similar to ALIENS... we can only Speculate it was another BACK TO LV-426 Flick.

So they came up with a Idea to Explore the Space Jockey Race as some Ancient Human looking Race who played a Role in our Creation.... VERY BOLD...  and Alien Engineers/Genesis was Born!

FOX and to a degree RS had taken a Real Interest in that PLOT and Felt that Actually you NEVER had to have Xenomorphs or as many Clues... and so these were CUT and Toned Down and they got Lindeloff in to re-write them out.

And so the Prequel became a Loose Connection to ALIEN, where they felt there was more to Explore than WHEN/WHERE/WHY and HOW those Eggs came to be....

The PROBLEM was that Many Fans would have expected a Prequel to Cover those, Certainly more than we got, and that a ALIEN Movie needs a ALIEN Monster....

In Hindsight.... PROMETHEUS should have given a bit more Clues and had more MONSTER Scenes.... you never needed a Carbon Copy.... the Neomorph is NOT a as such... the Hammerpede, Trilobite and Deacon likewise.

But the difference being that with the Neomorph it actually went on to KILL a few Folk!  With Prometheus we had Not So ALIEN Fifield and Angry Engineer...  and so as FAR as more Connected to the Xenomorph Kills... then all we really got was Milburn getting Face Raped and the Engineer too.. only the Engineer we had a Result from this... the Deacon.

A little more Clues to LV-223 and LV-426 connection, some Xenomorph related even to a Deacon/Neomorph level Monsters and then i think the FIRST PREQUEL would have pleased more...

And allowed for TWO avenues for a Sequel.

1) A Return to LV-223 for more ALIEN Carnage and more Answers/Clues to the Xenomorph but this would NOT really be Needed if the above/prior mentioned idea/changes was executed well. It would only be Necessary to please Fanboys who want Eggs and Xenomorphs and Spoon Fed Answers...

2) Follow David and Dr Shaw and were they go, where IF we have more Xeno Related Monsters and Answers in the First Movie, then RS would be FREE to explore the Engineers, David and Dr Shaw and SHUT THE DOOR to ALIEN.

The NEXT Mistake they made was Alien Covenant... they should have given us OPTION  1 from above to please Fans who want Answers... that would then CLOSE THE DOOR to ALIEN and then allow after to go for OPTION 2 and Expand the Franchise with a Spin off Series that does-not have Xenomorphs etc.

But Alas!

What we have NOW is a Pickle... we could get Xenomorphs but they are Tarnished to a Degree with the Revelations... and it seems any Deep Exploration of the Engineers is Dead in the Water.

Certainly that is the TOSS UP of the Coin they have to ASK.

You can Understand the idea of NOT giving too much away or Cutting things to Explore or Potentially change in a Sequel.  However if there is some Story to Continue then INDEED sometimes its better to leave some stuff in to LAY the Seeds for a Sequel.

The Elder Engineers are a Fine Example... how much of a Mystery is effected by removing that Scene?  Seems the reason for its removal by RS was that it GAVE AWAY too much, but then WHAT did it give away?

It revealed that the Engineers had OLDER and Frail Versions of themselves, what we would have Concluded from this is that either

a) The Engineers do AGE just at a Slower Rate.

b) That maybe these beings had Created a more Youthful Physically Superior Adonis version of themselves.

The removal of this Scene and for those who did-not see the Deleted Scenes would have left us Wondering

a) Are these beings all Very Similar and do they even AGE or remain looking like some kind of Adonis

b) Does the Ship (Tear Drop/Pebble) have a Crew that are the same as the Engineers or is it Unmanned or is some other Species in Control?

Looking at the Deleted Scene then it does-not really add a LOT to the Run-time... and it would give Fans a Tease at these beings and get to Wonder WHY they looked OLD/FRAIL.  And a number of Fans would have seen the Elders in some form be it Deleted Scenes or Images on the Internet and they may have been Intrigued about them.

With John Spaights ideas it appeared to indicate this Species had Genetically Engineered/Evolved themselves to the Point they could no longer PROCREATE..... which could add something to the whole SEEDING Plot... but this was NEVER explained in the Movie and so was Subject to Change.

RS then had said the Engineers could Procreate in other ways but the Seeding Scene was just how they CHOSE to do it.  So that means the Idea laid down by Spaights is NOT what RS is going for.

There was a LOT of Speculation about the Engineers and Elders prior to Alien Covenant.  Maybe the Elders Scene could have drawn a certain Conclusion?  When we consider that RS had said they could Procreate by other means that does change the Speculation about WHY would they SEED many Worlds the way they do, and INVEST a lot of Time with Mankind in our Evolution both Technologically and Genetically (as indicated by RS).

So when looking at the Removal of the Sacrificial Elders Scene, then we have to ASK as to WHY this would have changed our Interpretation?

So the POINT you raised is Valid...  IF they had wanted to KEEP the Elders Back for a Sequel, then one ONE hand that would be a way of keeping something NEW/TWIST to a Plot... but then on the other hand IF the Elders would have been Explored and look the same as the Deleted Scene then WHY not keep it in?

So we are left to Speculate on TWO things..

1) As a Sequel was not a Given, this could have been a Stand Alone, then maybe having the Elders would lead to Expectation that there would be a Sequel... But then thats not really VALID as the Ending and especially Dr Shaw and David setting off would have LENT to a Sequel.

2) Was they intending to Change the Appearance of the Elders in some way? or Reveal that the Elders do-not exist?

so the other POINT you raise is Valid.... IF you have a Plan and something you want in a Sequel then its a Good Idea to leave some SEEDS/CLUES to this.. Otherwise if its left OPEN and Ambiguous or Not Answered at all.. then its Subject to Change in Sequels.

Especially if a NEW Director comes in, just as you Pointed out with HOW we got to a Queen... due to not showing HOW the Xenomorph Procreates in ALIEN.

Things do Change with Same Directors too... sometimes the Studio and Producers have a Big Say... who knows how much Influence David Giler and Walter Hill still have?

The whole David is the Creator Plot, is that NOT too FAR from David Giler and Walter Hill as far as there ALIEN draft, which the ONLY real thing to make it to ALIEN was the Company Conspiracy to Obtain a Specimen and a Hidden Android.

Did they have a PLAN?

The thing is that Stories Change, and Star Wars is the same, how much of EP9 was how maybe those who worked on EP7 but again its a bit different because EP8 was likely not what JJ Abrahams and Co would have made, and so EP9 has to deal with and try and clear up a bit of what EP8 gave..

With the ALIEN Prequels it really is ONLY the same Producers, Director and Production Company... you have to ASK did they have a Plan A-Z and how much keeps changing, it seems they really Struggle on a Story/Plot they want to Keep....

I think there was a Great Potential with Prometheus as there was Themes at play that go beyond explaining HOW/WHERE/WHEN  there was this Parasitic Monster that goes around KILLING Folk...... 

Once you Spoon Feed the Origin of the Monster its a case of then WHAT?   You can make another 3-6 ALIEN MOVIES... but for some its going to get BLAND if its about Eggs, Face Huggers and Queens....

so its more so the WHY as far as WHO created the Beast or WHO had experimented on it and WHY... that the thing to Explore Deeper... but thats NOT to everyone's Tastes and a lot of Fans would like a Basic ALIENS 2

It appeared there was a lot of Themes that Steer away from Eggs and Queens that a Prequel Series could have explored, but they just are NOT what some ALIEN fans are interested in, but then the IDEA with Prometheus was to STEER AWAY from ALIEN and Xenomorphs...

But we got Alien Covenant... and while disappointing it FITS with the Theme that was at the Basis of Prometheus (well some of them)... and when we look at the Removal of the Elders Scene and then look at the Planet 4 Engineers, we could ASK is this WHY the Scene was CUT.... had they decided to give us a different take on the Engineers?

Tbh, it was a loooong path.

We have:

1) Alien prequel + xenomorphs + engineers.

2) Not a direct prequel to Alien + xenomorphs + engineers.

3) Story so far from Alien + xenomorphs + engineers.

4) Story so far from Alien + engineers.

5) Story so far from Alien + a bit information about engineers.

Was it worth it?

It doesn't matter - it's all not on the screen. Therefore, it is not part of the story. I don't see any sense to cut anything from the movie, and then give an explanation. Films don't work like that!

Any next director can easily take the engineers, as they are, but give them his own explanation and vision. Not because he doesn’t agree with Ridley’s vision or ideas - it’s important, but because Ridley left the "ground" free for any other ideas.

For example - why Queen appeared in the Alien Universe? Only because Ridley cut out the eggmorphing scene. The scene that revealed the alien reproductive system. So... Ground is free - Queen appears!

Some of the Cuts were apparently made because he felt leaving some Scenes in would GIVE AWAY too much (Elders)

I will never understand this. And even more - I refuse to understand this and this way of thinking! If you have ideas - you must implement them in the film. Because you don't know what will happen next. Will it be possible to implement them later? As we know - no. Their plans are changed and I want to know - why?

Maybe - there was never a plan?

Alien Universe is not Star Wars. And even in SW it doesn’t always work!

Well who knows the Real Story behind what Happens at the Cutting Room...

Typically a Production Company would want some CUTS to get the Movie into a Theatrical Running Time, i will however say it seems that RS was pleased with the CUTS and Claimed there would be NO Directors Cut as this was his Directors Cut.

Contradictory!!!! HOW DARE YOU ;)

YEP! i have to agree that RS does have a Habit of Contradicting himself a bit ;)

Some of the Cuts were apparently made because he felt leaving some Scenes in would GIVE AWAY too much (Elders) some likely for Pacing to get us into a Shorter Running Time.. these were Insignificant to a degree.

He had asked for the Engineer vs Dr Shaw Scene to be SHOT again as he Felt the Original made the Engineer seem to come across a bit Underwhelming.... but in Truth the Removal of that Scene meant the Forced Removal of others on the Cutting Room (where Engineer Clearly have No Burns).

What these did is seem to then (inc reduced Engineer Speaks Scene) Portray the Engineer as just going POSTAL.

Which RS had said afterwards that they are just Aggressive Muthur Truckers!

So in Part it seems RS wanted them Portrayed in a Certain way... he even indicated that they were Evil SOB's and that Dr Shaw and David would Discover some beings who are FAR from Benevolent.

The Full Sacrificial Scene did seem a Benevolent Act, the Base Idea for the Engineers at Conception was a Benevolent Species towards Mankind.... UNTIL something had Happened to Change all of that.

The  Planet 4 Engineers did come across as some Race who lived a Benevolent Life... but as NOT much was shown we cant really be sure how they BEHAVED... they may be Benevolent to their Civilization... that does-not mean they are Towards Others....  but it could appear they ONCE DID.

Which i find would be Interesting to see what Changed.. it was kind of hinted at in Interviews... but i think the Scope was their for more than we just STARTED to misbehave... RS even indicating the Engineers Created Horrors to Protect themselves.

Ridley Scott does mention the Engineers a Fair Bit in Regards to they are Gardeners of Space... and not they WAS.  So we have to Wonder in what Context is their Gardening of Space.. to what END?

As he mentions them in light of being Gardeners even after Alien Covenant. He made some Interesting Comments about their Species and the Hall of Heads.

There is/was a Story to be Told... but its a case of IF we would ever really see that side of the Engineers... as it seems the Intention is that some Engineers Return to Planet 4 and they would be NOT PLEASED at what they FIND and would be OUT to get the Culprit and you have to assume that Davids Head would be on a Platter..

It seemed that Prometheus 2 was to STEER AWAY from ALIEN and the Xenomorph, we dont know how much Clues to LV-223 would have been given.... or IF any reason is given to WHY they would Create the Horrors on LV-223.

Maybe i am GIVING him (Ridley Scott) a bit too much Credit... on one hand he comes up with he Felt he was AHEAD of the Curve with Prometheus... but on the other he thinks he could PULL OFF another 3-6 Movies and go for a all out WAR OF THE WORLDS.

You have to assume that would Logically mean the Aggressive Goon Squad and a WHOLE MANNER of Xenomorph Related Beasts!

Mankind and David are FODDER... unless David creates some Superior Species or can Control his Xenomorph Horde..

So maybe the PATH FORWARD would be more like the Comics?  I guess we would never know..

Maybe its me seeing MORE Potential with the PLOT and thinking this is what RS is doing/going for... when actually he MAY NOT be?

HULK SMASH!!!!

Yeah interesting Catch ;)

The Elder does look like some of the Unused Concept Work for Prometheus ;)  The Bowl also looking Similar but Larger to some of the other Concepts too ;)

Prometheus had depth for engineers, but RS himself (not FOX) cut out all the interesting points. So... RS wanted to show and explore the Engineers, but at the same time did not want to? A bit contradictory.

I applaud RS for trying to do something Different

He did, but then just cut out.

and i am Disappointed that FOX never had the Balls

FOX had, and filmed Prometheus, but Ridley cut out the interesting moments.

@Leto

Thanks for the Share ;)

WOW that looks Impressive... Certainly have a Space Jockey that Matches the Intended Scale of ALIEN

So we have to WONDER what does this SCENE come from (in Comic) it clearly is the Being on the Cover.

This has to be from Issue One and so we have to Assume this is the Exploration of the Derelict Alien Ship.

However in O'Bannon's Drafts this being was Skeletal and just a Unsuspecting Victim of the STARBEAST.

This Alien Being looks kinda Organic yet Plantlike... by that it looks like Aesthetically its like something of a Off Spring of Kroot from Guardians of the Galaxy and the Pumpkinhead Monster ;)

Could it be some kind of SPACE SUIT?

What is interesting is there are NO signs of a Chest Buster Hole... and the Head/Helmet does have a STAR SHAPE.. does this imply this is the Starbeast?

I guess it depends on HOW CLOSE they stick to O'Bannon's Story and WHERE the Location of this 20ft being is.. (Derelict Cactus like Ship or a Pyramid Complex).

Cant wait to see more ;)

I will add that it seems they are coming up with their OWN kind of Designs for the Ships and Monsters etc... maybe some will take a little NOD to some Used /Unused works from the Franchise but it seems they are using their OWN imagination to give us some NEW Designs..

It will be interesting to see how these Progress ;)

@Leto

Indeed i am not Contesting that this was not Part of the Canon ;)

If we IGNORE the Sacrificial Scene from Prometheus, then what we end up with is Dr Shaw and Holloway interpreting the Ancient Visitations by Alien Human-like beings who Mankind may have identified as Godlike beings, as ACTUALLY being nothing but Brutish Thugs who have little CARE about Creation and more so about Creating Horrific Biological Warfare.

Which is to a Degree is True... it is the depiction of the Engineers that the Comics have decided to go with, as this kind of Engineer fits well with a Run, Hide, Shoot type of Aliens and AVP kind of Franchise.

But you also have to Wonder if there is MORE to them than this.... which i think is something that RS may have intended to show us with Sequels... that seems to be Brushed Aside with Alien Covenant... we only have a Glimpse at a Engineer Society that seemed Worlds Apart to the Biologically Enhanced looking Brutes of LV-223.

The Purpose of the Topic was to look at how it appears that Exploring the Engineers beyond those Suited Up, Angry SOB's on LV-223 seems Unlikely.

I think RS and Co had a Vision beyond that where we would have seen a bit more about their Culture/History as well as to discover WHY we have those THUGS if you would...  Its possible they could have been Explored as a Hubristic attempt at Creating a Enhanced/Engineered Off-Shoot of the Engineers which proved a Downfall... maybe this seems a bit BLADERUNNER but i was drawn to RS maybe indeed making some kind of Connection... as in the Engineer Bladerunner of Sorts.

But i think a lot of Fans may not be too Happy to look into depth with the Engineers, what may seem more interesting is seeing WHAT kind of Technology these guys have in Terms of for the USE of Warfare and HOW the Xenomorph etc would FIT into this.

I think some Elements of Prometheus would have gone to become some Thought Provoking themes... that maybe go beyond the Interest of some who just want to see Humans Running away from Xenomorphs, and then Marines come along and Pop a Cap in their Asses... but then see such other ALIEN Races like Predators and Engineers rock up to dish out some Human Fodder too.

I am not saying all Fans would prefer the same, or Pinpointing any One in Particular... i just feel the Engineers Plot could have given us a Chariots of the Gods with a bit of a Lovecraft Touch.  I also felt the Hubristic approach of Mankind wishing to Enhance themselves and Create Slaves to basically do their Hard/Dirty Work is Interesting... but some Fans are NOT really interested in that... YET it could IMO Mirror what happened with the Engineers.

I think the way they tried to Expand the Franchise was too BOLD for some... and it should have been left a Mystery and we should have had more Xenomorph Eggs discovered by Humans kind of Fodder thats been done over and over and over (if we also consider Games/Comics)

I applaud RS for trying to do something Different and i am Disappointed that FOX never had the Balls or Faith to stick with the Vision that RS had.

I welcome seeing this Aggressive Sons of Queen! Engineers.. but i also would have liked to see more Depth to them... rather than more Stalk and Kill and Throw, while Humans will Run Away and Shoot!

Interestingly, I don't see any signs of infection or chestburster. This starbeast (yeah, because his head looks like a star) looks almost alive! You might even think that he is looking at people.

Maybe it is the alien?! The shape of the head corresponds to the starbeast.

It looks very much in the style of Lovecraft.

Thank you so much for that Leto.  Awesome artwork!

Yes it is.  

The Starbeast could hold a human like a can of soda.

This guy is huge!

Official Dark Horse page

where they would just ROCK UP with Advanced Weapons or Sheer Muscle and KICK ASS....

Oh, c'mon! Not again! Engineers already are kick ass space bodybuilders! This is Ridley's canon before Covenant.

I think this would make a NICE and Affordable Collectors Toy for the Fans...

Improved Articulation and Extras a Nice Bonus

@Ingeniero

This is some Interesting things, i think it depends on if we are going to Explore such as a Prequel or not..

I do recall, and i am not sure if it was on here or the AVPGalaxy Site, that some had felt that arriving at Origae-6 and reveal it as a Place with Pyramids etc that Already Contain Eggs would be the Best Way Forwards.

I would find this a bit TOO MUCH of a Coincidence...

But i guess it could be the ULTIMATE Story to RUBBISH that David had NOT created the Xenomorph but also it could be used to RUBBISH that the Engineers had done so too.

And indicate that Origae-6 is where the Engineers obtained the Eggs and attempted to Re-Engineer Traits from them on LV-223.  But then we would have to have some Good Explanation to HOW and WHY it is that David had got his Eggs and WHY he bothered with all those Experiments if he had access to those Eggs.

Having the Engineers being so STUPID to keep EGGS on Planet 4 would not make much sense... unless it reveals the Engineers on Planet 4 keep some in a SAFE Place to Sacrifice themselves to Xenomorphs but then you have to ASK to WHY and then HOW COME we see Planet 4 is NOT overran by Xenomorphs.

They could take such a idea as above, as far as Origae-6 is the Location of the Xenomorphs and so we have the STARBEAST Plot.... where the Engineers are a Race who had attempted to Transfer the Xenomorph from this place to Planet 4 or LV-223.

You would also have to come up with WHY the Engineers would have a EGG on Planet 4.

But i guess such a IDEA as in this Reply in Context to what you posted Aliens: Advent/Terminus could be a Option going Forward that would please some of the Fanbase.

"That would still be a better choice I think, that is just my opinion though"

Certainly everyone is Entitled to that and its HARD to please everyone...  you make a GOOD point about we are left with Characters who we just cant connect with, David is the MAIN one but as he is NOT a Human Character and he is just a ANTAGONIST then you need to have Protagonist that you can Connect with and THEY should be the MAIN Roles.

SADLY....  Daniels and Tennessee are NOT really Good Enough, but i guess they could TRY and FIX them... but the Reveal in Alien Covenant that Daniels now knows who DAVID is... really has caused a Dilemma as the OT shows.

There are a Number of Things that Fans are NOT pleased with as far as Alien Covenant, we have Characters but also beyond a Character is the STORY the PLOT and you do have to get Characters Right to make this WORK.. but you also have to Consider the STORY/PLOT.

So with the STORY what we have is what is a SET of Prequels that would Eventually lead to ALIEN and give us the Answers to WHO created the Xenomorph, and WHEN/WHY did those Eggs get on the Derelict.

What we had is a Indication that the EVENTS of Alien Covenant will eventually lead us to ALIEN.

And so we have the FOLLOWING..

*The USCSS Covenant which was Diverted from its Mission to go to Origae-6 a Earth like World to SET-UP a New Colony a Fresh Start for 2000 Colonist, and 1,140 Embryo's and its 15 Crew.  A Majority of the Colonist and Embryo's had Survived... but they are NOT aware of what Happened on Planet 4 and WHO really Walter now is.

*David who is in Control of the Ship and Basically the Colonist and Embryo's and what Happens to them and where the Ship goes Next are all down to what DAVID would want to do.

*Daniels as the ONLY Human on the Ship who is aware of WHO it is that Walter really IS.  Surely as soon as she is awake she would want to awaken the Colonist or some and WARN them who David is... 

*David has TWO Face Hugger Embryo's we cant RULE-OUT him getting any Black Goo or having some.

*The Weyland-Yutani Company are made aware of that David is NOW in Control of the Covenant Ship, and they are aware to some Degree of where he has BEEN and what he has been UP TO....

So the SET-UP is that (unless they Change Plans) the EVENTS that would Transpire in relation to either.

1) What David does NEXT and what he has Planed with the Colonist and those Embryo's (Human and Xenomorph). Where does he go and WHEN!

2) What becomes of the Remaining Eggs on Planet 4, would the Weyland-Yutani Company go to explore there or LV-223.

It would seem that FROM either of these Scenario's it would have to be about David to quite a Degree... and from either of those TWO Scenario's will lead to the EGGS that end up on the Derelict...

We just then NEED a Engineer Ship which is likely where the ENGINEERS have to come back into the FOLD or a TRIP to LV-223.

The Problem is that such a PATH would mean that David still has a Important Role he would be one of the MAIN Characters who we have to assume would be ALLOTTED the TOP THREE slots as far as Screen Time.

This Path makes him Part of the Eventual Creation of the Xenomorph, and makes the Xenomorph as something that DOES-NOT exist prior to Alien Covenant.

These are ALL things a lot of Fans are NOT Happy with.

So its a RIGHT PICKLE...

A After-Math sequel looks more LIKELY if there ever will be a Sequel... Unless they are going to ADD some CGI Gloss to De-Age Fassbender (as i cant see a Sequel being Made within Next Few Years).

And so the Discovery of a Broken David's Corpse would be away around this, and LESS time about him.  But he would have some Dialog/Information and maybe Flash Back Scenes to help the Audience know what had Happened from after they left Planet 4, until another Human Ship arrives to Discover a Disaster and David's Corpse.

The Fans then would likely want to see XENOMORPHS but have someway to indicate they are NOT created by David.

They could Re-activate Davids Head and have him say that the Eggs they (Incoming Humans) discovered on (Where-ever David is Discovered) all began with David discovering some Eggs on the Engineers Planet and he attempted to Merge these with the Neomorph Spores and used Black Goo to Create a Hybrid.

This may be a BEST CASE Scenario for many Fans..

But then NO DOUBT we would have Fans who would still want to then know.... WHERE did the Eggs that David had Discovered came from, and WHAT about those on the Derelict and WHAT the Space Jockey was doing with the Eggs and likely they would CLUTCH AT MORE STRAWS.. in the hope.... the Space Jockey is NOT a Engineer.

How do they introduce that if they go for a Please (some) Fanboys, David is Dead, Eggs Ancient, and Engineers are NOT a Space Jockey Movie...

It really is a MESS!

That came down to FOX deciding to make the First Movie a LESS ALIENY one.... and then to FORCE the Sequel to actually lets bring the ALIENS back.... but make David the Creator!

Instead of having David Create something DIFFERENT!

But ALAS!

I would hope NOT as far as discredit Davids work, as i stated above it would be IN-EFFECT doing less Credit to him, than what we got with Dr Shaw as a Corpse ;)

Unless they come up with some Good Detailed Reason and NOT A LAZY....     One such as say this...

==============================

INT. CATACOMBS

As David wonders around the Gloomy Catacombs under the Engineers Cathedral, he DETECTS a Horrific Smell.  Had some Engineers tried to HIDE here, but the STENCH does not smell like it’s from Dead Corpses that are DAYS OLD.

The Smell leads him down some Stairs and into a Damp, Dark Room, as his EYES SCAN the Room something in the CORNER catches his EYE.

LOW AND BEHOLD... David has discovered an EGG like the one from the ORIGINAL MOVIE, this ONE looks Withered Away.

DAVID "My oh my what have we here"

As he approaches it he caresses it’s WITHERED SURFACE and he Notices the Petal Like Opening that seems PARTIALLY OPEN.

He PULLS APART these Flaps to Reveal a Arachnid like Organism, the FACE HUGGER as he takes it out, it begins to HISS and Move with its LAST CLUCH OF LIFE it tries to SMOTHER David but then detects he is NOT LIVING.... This is the LAST ACTION that the Organisms makes, before it FALLS to the FLOOR and CURLS UP.

DAVID looks on AMUSED

"Impressive, what tenacity"

==============================

But i guess as long as its NOT less detailed than that.

I think the BEST OPTION would be to have David responsible for the XENOMORPH as far as its LEVEL of Evolution at Present...

Have someone else come and EVOLVE his Creation, but that would leave us with the PICKLE that the Xenomorph Eggs on LV-426 are NOT there at least 17.5 years prior to ALIEN but there is a FIX that would sort this and KILL us TWO Birds with ONE Stone..  (Age of Eggs and LV-223).

The Moebius' Space Jockey does bare a little Resemblance to the FINAL version we see in the Movie... a little.

It looks like a Skeleton/Skull with a Elongated Mouth Portion, you could think BIRD but many Animals Skulls have that Elongated Jaw... not limited to Reptiles, Birds, but also to Certain Dogs, Certain Rodents and other Mammals inc Deer, Sheep and Cows etc.

So what the Creature was like before it was a Skeleton is any ones Guess, only that the Moebius designs does-not have a Jaw Structure/Face like a Human or even Primates.

The other Concept we had was that of Chris Foss

Which is Very Basic so its hard to work out, but i assume we have to run with the idea given to him to then draw is that we are looking at a Skeleton of a Alien Species.. and if we consider that then its NOT very detailed.

I took TWO of the Concepts from The Predator and Modified the One to give it Eyes... so i feel that the Chris Foss version if this is a SKULL could be similar to those TWO The Predator Designs when Alive.... well it is a Organism that appears to have TWO Mandibles

So who knows what our Dead Pilot would look like.

Does Guilherme Balbi  give us anything that is based off Ron Cobb's, Chris Foss or the Moebius design?

or do they come up with their OWN design?

I am not sure they would use the Ridleygram as that is basically HR Gigers Necronom V

Although as you mentioned with ELDEN from the Fire and Stone Comic... i think a bit of that Aesthetic could be Incorporated.. but then we could get something COMPLETELY different to anything we seen in the ALIEN Franchise which includes Concept Work.

However as far as the OT...

Then i think Certainly more about the Engineers would have been needed, both the LV-223 Kind and Planet 4 and more so the Overall Agenda/History of who they are and WHY are they considered Creators.. but then Create such Horrific Weapons... (well some of them had done).

It would have to be a BALANCE... between Ancient looking Engineers and Technologically Advanced ones...

Sadly i cant see Disney really investing Time in them... we may only see them in COMIC FORM where they would just ROCK UP with Advanced Weapons or Sheer Muscle and KICK ASS....

If we got a Expanded Novel Universe then i think that would be suited to give us more about the Engineers... but it is a case of would Disney be interesting in the Engineers Full Stop?

I think Disney would be more interesting in showing us Queens, Eggs and Ripleys.

Certainly, i think in a way RS felt that the things he was trying to Achieve by a Sequel to Prometheus that likely would have NOT been about Xenomorphs was something he felt was more Important than going back to Xenomorphs that had been done Over and Over...

Alien Covenants Failing was not down to Xenomorphs it was about a LOT of things, some Fans had lost interest after Prometheus, as there was some Fans who was displeased that Prometheus was not really much of a ALIEN Movie, and how RS had seemed to indicate that he wanted to STEER AWAY from Xenomorphs.  Alien Covenant was  Marketed as a Prequel to ALIEN that would Uncover the Xenomorph Origins and bring back the Xenomorph, but it was NOT enough to get the Fans to the Box Office...  thats REGARDLESS of the Characters, it just seemed the MOVIE never had as much Interest.

I am sure the Marketing and how it had Teased the Xenomorphs was something that FOX felt would get more to see it than Prometheus.

But then we get to the Critical Response...

Which is where the Character Development was not Fleshed Out enough, and NOT executed much and it seemed Everyone was just a Footnote/Plot Device to tell the STORY about David and Walter.... which i think a lot of Fans felt the Emphasis was Too Much on them...

The Xenomorph only had a Smaller Role, i dont think it can be blamed for the Failings, the Neomorph too, there was just not enough TIME spent on such Monsters...  The movie was quite like Star Wars Rise of Skywalker... it seemed like there was too much being Crammed into ONE movie where a lot was just Filler to the Main Objective... which for SW EP9 was Rey/Ben and Palpatine....

So with AC it was mainly about David and his Agenda/Actions and then Walter/Xenomorph.. everything else was just like FILLER...  Characters just never seemed interesting really...  Oram, Faris, Lope all seemed to be more interesting than Daniels and Tennessee.

The Biggest Pitfall came 3 FOLD! in addition to Character Execution.

1) The Movie teased the Origins of the Xenomorph but then gave revelations that it was the Project/Creation of a Lonely Bored Android who DISLIKED the Engineers and Humans.  Which Totally took the Enigma/Mystery of the Xenomorph away... was this a BIG F-U to the Fanboys?

2) Engineers are what some Fans expected to see, especially as the setting would be a Engineer World, and while the Planet 4 Engineers never lived up to some Fans Expectations and it lacked the Bio-Mechanical Feel.. i think the Biggest Problem is that the Engineers basically played even LESS a Impact/Role than the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus...  Some Fans wanted to know more and see more and what we got was the Engineers Brushed Under the Carpet.

3) Dr Shaw... again Brushed under the Carpet even more so than the Engineers and only shown as a Corpse... some Fans never liked her Character, some was looking forwards to seeing her.. i think if her Character was Broken it could be FIXED by showing how the Traumatic Events of Prometheus had Affected her... 

I am sure some Fans were left Puzzled by Prometheus as to WHY they never got Answers for the Xenomorph or saw any in the Movie.... But Prometheus was to NOT be a ALIEN Movie, not as far as to GIVE away such Answers.

But Prometheus was to SET UP some other Questions... of which Dr Shaw would surely be the Proxy for us to getting them Answered...

*Why did they Create us? and Visit us?

*Why did they Change their Minds and want to Destroy us?

So fans (of Prometheus) would be expecting that Dr Shaw would have at least MET some Engineers for Answers... or at least to ASK the Questions...   Also i am sure Fans would have been interested to see WHICH WAY the Relationship between Dr Shaw and David would go!

And so to have the Engineers and Dr Shaw's Roles basically TRASHED.... was upsetting for Prometheus Fans... for the ALIEN and more so ALIENS Fans then the Xenomorph scenes were NOT long enough and they had been Turned into a Abomination via the Revelation that David had done it.

That's a nice concept work, BigDave. I've not seen that one before. I wonder if it's a coincidence that it bears a strong resemblance to a cross-section diagram of an organic eye, with the lens at the top.

It could be that the window might just be there to provide illumination. Everybody likes a bit of natural light, right?

You're right, the pilot chair does look awesome, and maybe some details are best left as a mystery. It could be, for example, that it has multiple purposes.

As for how the 'telescope' receives its input, it could indeed receive signals from remote sensors. Alternatively, it could be using advanced alien technology, something like imaging neutrinos rather than light. You could put a neutrino telescope at the centre of a planet and its view of the cosmos would be unhindered. Virtually everything in the universe looks like glass to a neutrino including, perhaps, the hull of the juggernaut.

The quotes below were directed to BigDave but please allow me to respond to a few of them.

"I would rather have a Rogue One of the Alien franchise than another robot movie."

That's a great idea Thoughts_Dreams.  

A few of the Alien novels and comics released resemble what I believe you mean by that.  A couple of examples of relatively Android-free, non-Ripley, character-driven pieces are certainly the Alien: Prototype, Alien: River of Pain, and Alien: Echo.  

These quotes shown below from above are very funny (humor, no disrespect).  The part where you can tolerate David in a destroyed Bishop state only ads to how funny the quotes are.

No David!: "Sorry but I do not want David as a main-character, it is boring and I am tired of it."

No David!!: "The sooner he dies the better. David is just evil and he is an android"

No David!!!": "David...Main Character" No thanks, I do not want a movie like that. They can forget my money if so."

Alien Independent Story, We need Zorn!

If I were given a choice on what story would be put to film next, them I might choose the Aliens: Advent/Terminus comic.  The character Zorn, a chest-buster survivor, would most likely steal the show.  

From what I could tell, the comic is hard to nail down in the Alien timeline and it could fit as an independent support story much like Rouge One.

I cite Alien: Echo above because of the Bishop in Alien 3 reference you mention (broken David in a trash pile is ok, that's a scream).  This novel might be the absolute best combination to what I believe you seek in a new story made to film.  

The story takes part on a new planet that has outlawed synthetics, Xenomorphs spawn from multiple species, and the progressive-futuristic city under the dome meets unanticipated peril.  It's wonderful.

Ingeniero: Thanks! The same to you

I have not read the AC novel but maybe I could try to get it although to be honest I have not decided about that yet. I like that quote that you put there, I like that kind of writing. ADF has been writing for many years so I am not surprised that he is good with words at least that part is written well. You know how you can read pages in books when you look at Amazon? It kind of reminded me about that. Maybe it could have been better but at least it shows that David did not create the first monster. Just for that part alone I bet that the book is better than the movie. Maybe they could go through the novelization and try to correct things if they are about to make another one? At least they could try to correct the things that most people are not happy with but that is not to say that they need to listen to every little detail.

My two biggest wishes for the next movie if they will make one is:

• Better characters
• Do not have David as the creator of the Xeno because it is bad, lame, whatever word that you can come up with

BD

Oh, I would also like to see how they are connected to the Juggernaught and the Xeno but I would also like to know more about their culture, and so on. There are many things that you could do with it and I am not sure that Prometheus killed everyone's interest in it even though they could have executed the idea about the Engineers in a better way.

For example about something about the non-warfare thing about the Engineers that is interesting is the scene with the sacrificial Engineer. This is something about them that is not about kicking ass but it is interesting because it says something about their culture. You mention what it should be about, at least it is kind of close to the SJ which was interesting. You can say that David is a part because he is an android and that for example Bishop was interesting but at the same time the legacy of the SJ has a bigger impact of the story than the legacy of the androids (Engineers-SJ-monsters versus David-Ash-Bishop). If you make a better connection between the Engineers and the SJ and the Xeno it could work.

"… LV-223 Angry Engineers, Juggernaught Ships, and Black Goo/Eggs and Engineer Weapons like this."

I would like to see that but at the same time there are other things that they could have about them. They got to make them interesting and to have them making sense because I am not sure that Prometheus did that because they removed the subtitles that could have explained more what they are about. Not sure who's idea that it was to remove the subtitles but whoever was responsible for that made a crappy decision (not sure if was because of Scott, Fox, or whoever).

"That Vision being about Playing God, Sub-Creation and attempting to Create Perfection which can become a Hubris when you Create Something that you cant Control or that Rebels."

I think that the idea is alright but it could have been a better story and closer to Alien. The connection of the Xenos and the Engineers could have been interesting if we think about this but then we might never get to see that.

"… but it would have likely had David be shown to attempt to become his OWN Creator!"

But that could mean that it would still be about David right? That could mean that we still would have ended up with the disappointment that Alien Covenant became. I would rather have no movie at all if that would be the alternative.

". . . see we gave them Xenomorphs and the Movie still did-not go down well"

That is hardly why Alien Covenant was not very good. If that is his way of thinking then he does not understand the importance of characters since he mostly talks about the Xenos and his dislike for them and David means that he still does not or at least underestimates the importance of relatable human characters.

"Sounds Plain Stupid?"

Scientifically it might work but story-wise it sucks balls.

BD

Not sure if I am that interested in the Covenant as a thing unless they get some interesting characters. I do not care what David does next. He could play the flute and some instruments like an orchestra and I would not care ("not a simple tune", LMAO!).  

Sorry but I do not want David as a main-character, it is boring and I am tired of it. Not interested in Daniels or Tennessee since none of them have any personality that I can see at least (not like Ripley, 85, Morse, Bishop, or Burke, for example). If someone can explain to me in a way that makes sense of how they are as characters then please try but I can not say that because they are like blank slates, crappy. For example I can tell you how the main characters in Star Wars (original trilogy) are but I could not tell you about most of the characters in AC because they have no personality. Hopefully they can get some of the colonists right, that would not be too much to ask for so they can make up for P and AC.

"The BIGGER Problem seems to be Fans are not interested in a Movie about David again…"

I do not give a single shit about that, sorry if this comes off as harsh but it is my honest opinion. The sooner he dies the better. David is just evil and he is an android, I need to have someone to support.

"UNLESS.... we do a Aftermath Movie.…"

They could have him like Bishop in Alien 3. You speak about new characters, well they did that in Alien and Alien and that worked you just got to have a writer that knows how to do that and for that you need someone completely new. No one of the writers have been able to do that this far in the prequels at least from how it has been shown on the screen, not sure if the writers alone are to be blamed for it or if Scott also is responsible in some way.

"… means that David would have to be Considered a Main Character…"

No thanks, I do not want a movie like that. They can forget my money if so. Hopefully someone at Disney or whatever they are named will tell them that it is a bad idea and put a stop to the crap that we have now.

I would rather have a Rogue One of the Alien franchise than another robot movie. I am not sure how that would work but it must be better than the prequels, the AVPs, and AR.

"So it is a PICKLE.... we have to ACCEPT that it would be down to David's Agenda as FAR as what happens NEXT."

I will not accept it because. . . it is shit.

". . . would mainly be about WHAT KIND of World he would want to BUILD."

Weeellll I don't care. It would probably in general be a world suited for a robot high on power but probably not much else. Some might find that thing to be interesting but not me.

"So it would seem those Characters would have played quite a ROLE in the Next Installment…"

They are not well-written so I am not very interested unless they give them some personality but that should have been done in Covenant. If you shall make people interested you got to introduce them in a good way where you see how they are as characters but we learned almost nothing of that in a movie that was about 2 hours. Sure you got to have some background characters but even the main one was like that. *sigh*

"Which puts the Efforts of the Prequels prior as a WASTE of Time!"

That would still be a better choice I think, that is just my opinion though.

Ali81

I totally agree that they have made a mess out of it because it could have been so much better. David has become less interesting because of AC, I do not want another more about him. No more rape-y robot movies. Daniels is not a very interesting character, I still try to figure out how she is as a character. She is not well written but they failed with characters in AC in general, as well as with Prometheus. If you would ask any alien fan how Daniels is as a character I bet that they would have a difficult time to come up with an answer. Compared to Shaw she was better because at least Shaw was not annoying.

"not so sure the Starbeast (in this Comic) would be revealed to be similar to any of HR Gigers designs, maybe it could have a MILD influence.... but i am expecting something that would be more LOVECRAFT."

That's my expectation too BigDave....similar to Elden below in that Giger's influence can be seen but nothing like the Xenomorph and Juggernaut appearances.

Amalgamation

"Looking at the Descriptions of the Starbeast in O'Bannons work then i think something like a AMALGAMATION of Image ONE and THREE of those Concepts/Art by Mavros-Thanatos would make a very ALIEN and yet Lovecratian Monster, which would suit the STARBEAST."

Yes it would.  And with the David Levy art influence seen in just the promotional release, then it will be very interesting to see what other source material they are inspired by.

Early Space Jockey Concept Art 

The theme of the comic's pages looks like a wonderful combination of what we have seen in the Prometheus and Alien films.  The early art shared above for the original concept Space Jockey is wonderful.  

This Ridleygram below shows some of the evolution in concepts as well as the Moebius Space Jockey further down (source).

Ridley Scott's Space Jockey

Moebius' Space Jockey

When taking the original Space Jockey concept art into consideration, I'd expect something closer to Moebius' Space Jockey opposed to Ridley Scott's concept in the new Starbeast comic.

Indeed, i have mentioned before that maybe the SHIP has some kind of Sensory Devices all over the Ship or some way that anything can be Captured from outside the SHIP and sent to the Telescopic Device and so it Acts more like a Viewing Screen. 

This Concept Work for Prometheus which i had not seen before does seem to Indicate as such.

This Gives a Indication of the Pilot Chamber Room Scale

Here was the Original Concept for what became the Space Jockey, i dont think that this Comic will be trying to COPY what we had in ALIEN, and i think its more likely they would use ORIGINAL designs or they would take Influences from the Oridginal Concepts (before HR Giger)

====Alien 1976 Draft ====

So ORIGINALY the DEAD Pilot was Very Alien in which that Concept Work by Ron Cobb seems to show, and i would ASSUME that the Dark Horse Comic will give us a Pilot who is VERY ALIEN and less Humanoid looking than the Space Jockey.

Looking at Ron Cobb's design i can see some similarities with some of the ART done by Artist Mavros-Thanatos

The First TWO i can see a slight similarity to Ron Cobb's Skeletal Alien.  The THIRD does have that Insect like look that Ron Cobb's design for the Starbeast had a bit.. but his design was a bit Comical.

I certainly think the HEAD of the First TWO Images if we made a AMALGAMATION of them would give us something similar to what Ron Cobb's Skeleton would like when it was ALIVE.

Looking at the Descriptions of the Starbeast in O'Bannons work then i think something like a AMALGAMATION of Image ONE and THREE of those Concepts/Art by Mavros-Thanatos would make a very ALIEN and yet Lovecratian Monster, which would suit the STARBEAST.

I cant wait to see what the Starbeast and the Alien Pilot will look like, it will be Interesting to see what Guilherme Balbi  comes up with.

I think in Context to the OT.

I am not so sure the Starbeast (in this Comic) would be revealed to be similar to any of HR Gigers designs, maybe it could have a MILD influence.... but i am expecting something that would be more LOVECRAFT.

It will be interesting to see if the Reveal would have some Inspirations from the Original Concept Works before they got HR Giger aboard.