New Replies (Page 201)
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION!
So where would you like to take the Franchise Next if say there was to be ANOTHER MOVIE, which could End-Up as a Stand Alone or Spawn a New Series of Movies
So which of these do you think they should do?
1a) Do we Carry on with a Direct Alien Resurrection Sequel and so would be about Ripley 8?
1b) Carry on with a Direct Alien Resurrection Sequel that would not be a Continuation Ripley 8?
2) Do we offer a Movie that goes back to the Derelict after the events of Alien but prior to Aliens. (Alien Isolation did this).
3) Do we go back to the Derelict/LV-426 after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope, and how soon after would this be?
4) Do we look at a Parallel Plot to Alien Resurrection that for instance follows what happened to the Failed Ripley 7 Queen?
5) Do we go another Avenue of Related Horrors that come from Engineers or Davids Experiments, as in go to other Places where Eggs or Black Goo had been Deployed? And if so then what Time-Line?
6) Do we go with Alien Isolation as in making a Sequel to the Game? (as we know what the Events of Alien Isolation are via Game/Novel).
7) Do we explore the Survival/Capture of the Xenomorph or Queen that are Floating in Space? (could also be the one from Covenant).
8) Do we go for a RET-CON of one of the Quadrilogy Franchise Movies? AKA like Blomkamps Alien 5.
9) Do we go to a place where we uncover the Origins of what lead to the Engineers Experiments and Black Goo, which could be some place FAR FAR Away?
10) Give your TWO Cents on a Alternative, as in HOW do we do another ALIEN Movie that would introduce us to SOME kind of ALIEN Monster, that is related to a degree to the Black Goo/Xenomorph!
I still have yet to Watch The Predator but its on my Cable TV Service next week so i will watch it then, surely it cant be as bad as AVPR! lol
I think while Alien Covenant is not the Sequel that most wanted, it also seemed to be NOT quite what appeared to be the Direction if we look at Prior to 2014. I think Prometheus left it open to EXPAND this Story in Many Ways, which Alien Covenant had just Clipped the Wings off that Bird.....
So its always Interesting to get another persons idea of HOW they would have Continued the Prequels. I have not been Commenting on this Topic, because my replies can be too much in Depth and with the Subject Matter at Hand and Scope of WHAT could have happened after Prometheus, my Feedback would just kind of be TOO LONG and maybe Derail the Thread....
But i certainly am Interested in seeing your TAKE on what to have done NEXT, just as i would with others who would have wanted to go ahead and explain WHAT they would have Done Next....
While Alien Covenant will likely remain Canon... and to Continue with the Path is NOW more Simplistic but Disappointing, i still think its GREAT to discus Prometheus and what it could have led to because that Movie had almost Unlimited Scope, so its Good to see how others would have Continued with the Story.
@Michelle Johnston I'm sorry to have divagated from the original post. But for me, Covenant cannot be unseen and that from those 3 only Lindelof had the spine to not cave-in also says much. Scott was with the sequel only a businessman and Fassbender wanted his own franchise, so I cannot sympathize with either.
But I am really happy for you, none the less.
To support my post, here is a 5 minute video describing the allure of scary movies and games from a more scientific perspective.. Sorry if I cannot embed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UH-JDPdNws
There are other videos that are more in-depth but are either political or too on the nose imo.
Dark Nebula I have to agree that AVP is better than Predator 2018. Both are good popcorn flicks but I think AVP has more re watch value.
I am sure you won't find this response censorious if I say I only want in this thread to discuss Prometheus and its associated materials up to the day it was released in July 2012.
So we have a savvy woman the sole survivor and a humbled robot. The only credible way to take the story forward is that David responds to Elizabeths decision to show him more kindness than anyone else by being affected. Anything else lacks coherence and would ignore the basic rules of drama.
I will permit myself one "fall" that "Furious Gods" repeatedly reminds the viewer of the kind of movie that Ridley was desperate to avoid making. Over and over again he talks of being fresh of moving to new ground of fresh takes on everything. I won't insult you by asking you to think about how that relates to the 20th Century Fox movie from 2017 set in the same universe.
What gives me huge joy and excitement is to know I did not project my view of what Prometheus was "all about" its there for all to see in 420 minutes of material. What you as a highly intelligent articulate person seeking fresh experiences can be reassured by is that at least three key people Fassbender, Scott and Lindelof were well aware they were taking a risk. They knew the vocal core fanbase much better than the core fanbase and their U Tube diatribes know the movie and what it was trying to do.
I think when looking at a ALIEN Movie some Fans may think the Franchise should be about the Xenomorph, and so the Prequels and especially Prometheus seemed to go against this and STEER AWAY...
I think some wanted FULL ORIGINS... but i think for Most it was a case of the Clues where NOT good enough, and the ONLY Monsters we had close to ALIEN would had been the Hammerpede, the Trilobite and Deacon, who never really did much Damage or had much Screen Time to the LEVEL the Xenomorphs had in the Franchise, and so with Alien Engineers there was more Xenomorphy like Scenes....
So the POINT i am raising is that the Fans seem to think the Franchise should STICK with Alien Monsters, but maybe we dont have to explore ALIEN Monsters that are Identical or Near Identical to the Xenomorphs...
So if as Gavin has mentioned a Few Times, the Xenomorph in Alien and Aliens are from Different Cargo Holds, then we could ASK... how many more Variants are on the Derelict?
How many more Derelict like Ships had Contained Egg Cargo's and WHERE are these and their Cargo?
The LV-223 Experiments and Black Goo can Produce Various Monsters, does the Black Goo Origins only come from this PLACE? Had the Engineered Failed to Deploy such Horrors and so the only Origin/History of the Xenomorphs and Horrors from the Black Goo only Stem from the Trail that David has taken.... so from a Outbreak on LV-223, to taking this Pathogen to Planet 4, to Engineer it, to then taking it further on Origae-6 and then Results Ending up on LV-426.
Its that all the Place such Horrors had existed in the Pre-Alien Time Line?
If SO then does the Derelict have Multiple Variants of the Eggs?
If NOT then what state would the Eggs be in after Hadleys Hope Destruction, would their be Radioactive Fall Out and what effects would Radiation have on Mutating those Eggs?
IF we accept David had Re-engineered the Neomorphs and used the Black Goo to Engineer Various Monsters, then surely the COMPANY could do the same or similar?
Alien Resurrection showed signs the Xenomorphs were somewhat different.... we also had the New Born which in Concept was interesting, just Aesthetically it was a bit Comical.... it need NOT have been... (look how Horrific the Neomorph looked in Comparison).
So there are Avenues to introduce Xenomorphs that are Different, and Do-Not have to go the Avenue that Directly Follow Davids path, or more so be about Ripleys!
So if the Prequels seem a Quandary to Continue, and Fans want more ALIEN/ALIENS then we can find ways to introduce them, without Conflicting the other Movies, and also Introduce Variations as i think if we go for another ALIEN Movie, with the Xenomorph like in Alien Covenant/Alien or Aliens then its HOW-MANY such Movies like that can you SPEW out before you CREMATE the Beast?
Regarding Telepathy this could be Speculated as Forming a HIVE MIND... and i think its something the Xenomorph could Posses... i think we have to Remember the Franchise is Sci-Fi which means its where we can Merge the Boundaries of Science with Fiction, but also incorporate Elements of Fantasy too.
I think certainly from a AI POV, then Synthetics and the like as a AI would posses such Ability or could be given it. If the AIM was to Eventually infer to us that a Synthetic would play a Part in the Evolution of the Xenomorph from Alien Covenant, then having a Form of Telepathy makes sense.
some of Davids Experiments did seem to be making Hybrids of what seemed Part Neomorph and Part Engineer, and it seemed these had Evolved/Engineered to have some kind of Telepathic Communication.
Ridley Scott had claimed the NEXT movie would NOT have been about he Xenomorph, but about AI but also about WHAT it is that David would Create Next, looking at those Human Embryo's i wonder if he would attempt to CREATE his own Version of Humanoids, Superior and maybe he could incorporate some of his Experiments and indeed Create a Species that uses Telepathy!
If he does such a thing, and this Creation becomes Rebellious, well a Rebellious Movement can Spread more if your Rebellious Creations are Telepathic and such a Trait could be a Hubris for David...
But as a Creator.... you need a Back Up Plan, and when your LAMBS are not turning out as intended then you will need a WOLF to eradicate them.
So what i am saying is WHAT happens if a Xenomorph is Born from a Species that are Telepathic? Would then inherit this Trait? would it become more Refined and Evolved?
I think that the ideas of each Director, Writer and Production from Movie to Movie does change a lot, i would say MOST expanded Novels, Games and Comics seem to fit more with the Xenomorph being as portrayed in ALIENS and AVP.
A lot has changed from the Inception of Concept (Starbeast) and so i think we maybe have to accept the Changes....
I think as Gavin pointed out that having the Xenomorph in ALIEN come from a Different Cargo Hold makes sense, with Alien Engineers the indication was the Ships would have 8 Different Cargo Holds with each Xenomorph being a different Variant within each Cargo Hold.
I am not so sure that having a Vast Difference in how each Xenomorph would behave would be Good... i think to Aesthetically look Different a bit, and to have a different Procreation method would be Good. But to have ONE Specific Xenomorph as being more Civilized, Intelligent to the point of being able to Mimic a Human would be a Stretch...
Unless its revealed that ALL of the Xenomorphs could do the same, given Time.
I would say the Xenomorph and Variants are a Engineered Creation, but we can Speculate that its Engineered from WHAT! And i think this would be the best way to Explore something Different more Intelligent.
I think the Xenomorph has been over done, and while we can have Different Versions, i think maybe the BEST route would be to Introduce something Similar but Different... Give us the Ultramorph/Necronom IV and incorporate some of the Unused Ideas into that MONSTER.... we could have them revealed as a Ancient Xenomorph Colony that Evolved, ONE that has been Re-Engineered be that by Engineers, David or Humans.
Or introduce them as a ANCIENT STARBEAST and then infer that the Xenomorph DNA/Black Goo Traces its routes back to this Ultramorph.
@Chli
Certainly by the time of ALIEN Resurrection it seems the Weyland-Yutani Corporation is NOT a Big Player/Gone..... It would be interesting to Wonder WHEN/WHY... and also HOW the United Systems Military (USM) came to obtain knowledge of Ripley and the Xenomorph.... it seems this Corporation was Founded nearly 50 years after the Events of ALIENS.
So we could speculate had the W-Y Company gave up the Pursuit of the Xenomorph after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope? Had they continued and was this Pursuit something that lead to their DOWNFALL?
And if the USM became a Power about 50 Years after Hadleys Hopes Destruction, then had USM not been interested in the Xenomorph for about 160 Years until they attempted to obtain ONE via Cloning Ripley 8, or had they attempted other Avenues at some point in the say 150 Years Prior?
So those are Avenues to cover a Story/Plot too.
'Telepathy is not a science'
I would think they could go with a brainwave altering force(through em) if the Xeno has some way to produce such a field?
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/brain-stimulation-therapies/brain-stimulation-therapies.shtml
Being in a 'xeno field' could cause seizures or make you feel great!
?
It sums up the mess pretty good. Interesting that "the eggmorphing" wasn't intended to transform the victim into an egg. The victim was intended to be food for the egg (or what was in it).
Almost all ideas and themes will work well with Alien... Almost... Alien is sci-fi. Telepathy is not a science, not even a part, not even an assumption. It's a clear magic. I hope in Alien film will never be telepathy.
I debated making a separate thread for this video but I think it best serves the discussion in this thread :)
enjoy, Ze Goo
@Michelle Johnston what I was saying (maybe not very clearly) the provided information (David) can also respond to that question and some argue that Prometheus was always about David. And Because of Fassbender play always an @-hole is very unlikely someone from Fox would want anything else than an evil robot.
Big Chap knew that the only thing keeping it safe from a smackdown was the box that held Jonesy back XD
I didn't use the term "why would you make monsters" the guy from Fox did. It was his short hand for explaining Prometheus to himself and how to sell it. What I think is much more fertile territory is to look at why evil exists in an Intelligent Universe and what can go wrong. As Jon Spaiht's said the monsters simply signify the danger the Engineers can represent. Something had gone wrong already because the danger was to themselves as well.
The real issue is a part of humanity, represented by Elizabeth, tends to think that morality is the consequence of the benign circumstances in which we were created. What this story is capable of asking us to think about is can there be morality and dare I say love in an engineered universe. In Foxes terms do all robots have to be bad.
In this story we were going to be destroyed 2,000 years ago but we were actually saved, coincidence? Important? If it were important then that suggests someone is at least interested if not benignly supportive and yet its an intelligent universe where everything is a construction one way or another. How would a God of an Engineered Universe respond to rebellion, its happened, how do you put it right?
So we now have three questions.
How does an Engineered Universe go wrong?
How would the powers respond ?
How would you put it right?
At that point of the movie, the Xeno's objective seemed to be getting to safety. Jones was clearly not a threat. Perhaps the xeno just observed J as a curiosity. Maybe it was as simple as that- but I wonder if it was some kind of acknowledgement that it recognized another living creature but was not related to its target- humans. Perhaps the xeno displayed a form of ethics.
"returning to the original concept and ideas of a truly alien organism is what the franchise needs to continue"
I too may sound like a broken record here. Showing different aspects of the Alien can be a great way to give it a breath of fresh air. In an unused ending, it mimicked a human voice with the intent of misleading the comms' recipient. I have heard that in at least one of the novelizations that it had telepathic powers.
Introducing these concepts in movie form would seem new for a movie, but they are from past lore, so it wouldn't be like writers would be just making up things.
OK. I look forward to reading it, Michelle.
I'm with Gavin on the Xeno.
Probably a great topic for another thread..but....What advantages could a bio-mechanical xeno have over purely biological one?
@BigDave
I would doubt it, as by then its likely Mankind has Terra-formed and Discovered other Earth like Worlds
Yeah....Think I would write it so many of the Earth's colonies have been overrun and the further they explore..the more xeno infested worlds they find.....In fact they find billions of worlds with nothing but xenos/trilobytes/deacons/hammerpeades and other really nasty creatures.
In episode 10...they finally leave the galaxy(no where to hide)......but after arriving to the brand new one(1,000 years later or something) they find it's even worse!
*spoiler alert!*
They find a correlation between dark matter/energy and xeno infestations!
The End.
@chli
There are two issues (at least) which I back filed :-
1) Why the Lone Craft has a different cargo.(Damon says in the commentary that will probably never get answered. I get that its detail which doesn't affect the themes) If your going to (go there) which i did it cannot be gratuitous it has to be for story. Its connected to Piero della francesca's - The Nativity, which is a signpost to go there and the rest unfolds.
2) The metaphor for the Promethean's (LV223) and the Deacon is Weyland/David. Weyland loved his creation for himself because he achieved it. But equally he despised (The Hologram speech) and feared him (David's wake up scene). The other similarity (in my story) between the Promethean's and Weyland is they are both rebelling to whatever their natural order is. However the reason for the Prometheus movement (the theft of technology) is about a failure on both sides.
3) The pilot of the Lone craft is on a specific journey and his obliteration is the most violent because he was going to pursue the greatest evil. He is caught in the story of appropriate sacrifice.
4) In an intelligent universe where creation is neither magnanimous or accidental the methodology is inevitably going to appear brutal, unsympathetic and violent. Someone has to do the heavy lifting. The question is there any grace in this any sense of value for the participants. I took the chant and the delivery of the sacrament as being one of noble sacrifice and because what is being transmitted (in my story), is the most precious commodity of this Universe, it has value and is understood to do so. The donation is not simply about the creation tool if it was you would just throw the imbibing cup in the falls it is about the material and the vessel that carries it. It is a rite of passage not just superstitious mumbo jumbo. For the viewer of the movie to consider it smj is to miss the point of the story, this is about an Engineered nuts and bolts creation. Obviously there will always be smart asses that no everything about creation and say it doesn't hold up as a plausible idea but this is provocative entertainment which is intended to make you think not a NASA dissertation.
In closing there are lots of reasons why Prometheus is an exceptional movie which will grow its cult status but there are many reasons why it fails with people and not least because its prime method of communication is thematic and symbolic which doesn't fit the fanbase or the modern audiences preoccupation with bit by bit detail over suspension.
BigDave
It seems that W-Y Corp. declined after the Fiorina incident. Perhaps that’s the answer why no more projects were launched (They gave up trying to get hold of a xenomorph)?
The Aurora was run by the USM (not by W-Y). But how did they get the information about the xenomorph and why 200 years later (Well, it was founded in 2226)?
IMO the Queen aspect has been done to death, and as evidenced by BigDaves replies is what many consider to be the Alien.
I know I may sound like a stuck record but the alien as depicted in the first movie has not been explored since that movie, and I believe returning to the original concept and ideas of a truly alien organism is what the franchise needs to continue and to evolve because fans and audiences are tired of Queens, Facehuggers, and Chestbursters.
IMO the more organic, more insectoid, and less threatening alien we saw in all but the first movie can easily be explained as a variant form that did not originate from the cache off eggs Kane discovered, but instead from another part of the derelict. Once we clarify this the narrative choices afforded to us from an endlessly adaptive alien thing that I like to think as neither organic nor mechanic but both (organic robot meets mechanical creature)
Michelle
I read your “The Furious Gods Answers” (I also watched the documentary) and I think I agree with most of your conclusions. I’m especially pleased that the Space Jockey is an Engineer (and not David for instance). :) He was also connected to the outbreak on LV-223, but it isn’t, perhaps, quite clear why there were eggs rather than mutagen in the cargo hold?
Why would you create monsters? Well, Frankenstein’s “monster” and David became monsters because they were treated badly. But why did the Engineers worship the Deacon (if that’s what they did)? Was it just a biological weapon made to eradicate worlds, why then worship it?
The theodicy problem is, in a way, easily solved since the Engineers were neither gods nor benevolent. The seeding Engineers were savages dealing with hominid sacrifice and the LV-223 Engineers were mass murderers.
I think “Prometheus: The Furious Gods” is a good title, resembling “The Wrath of God”. But since humans and Engineers are cousins, I wonder if there is a furious God looking down on both of them? :)
I think we have to Remember that RS is Hands On, he likes using SETS and not CGI, it also helps the Actors on Set so they can get a Picture of what is around them, rather than to Imagine it.
I would assume IF the Movie had the Green Light for 1-2 Sequels to be made 3-5 years after, then YES they would KEEP the SET.... but with the Take Over and Disappointment putting the Franchise in LIMBO.
Then chances are the SET could be taken down and Sold/Scraped.
I think its safe to assume.... the Xenomorph has TWO Objectives.
WHAT can it use to Procreate....
WHAT would pose a Threat to its Existence and ability to Procreate.
So Jonesy would be seen as NOT a threat, but then maybe a Viable Means to Procreate.
Regarding FOOD, i would assume if the Xenomorph requires such things (indicated in drafts/novels) then it would not PASS UP a Jonesy Snack!
Regarding HOW FAR away places like Planet 4 and Origae-6 are these depends on knowing either their Distance in Light Years, or how FAST the Covenant could Travel.
What we know is it must have taken 10-12 Months to Reach Planet 4 and it would have taken another 7 Years and 4 Months to get to Origae-6 (minus few weeks). It had taken the Prometheus 2 Years to get to LV-223, we can assume LV-223 and LV-426 are located close by certainly at most a few Light Years, and the Nostromo would have taken 10 Months to get back to our System.
So what we have is a Improvement in Space Travel as our Technology Advances, i think Regarding Communication Times thats a Good Question, we have to ASSUME that Communications would take about the same time that the Current Ships FTL Technology takes, but its just a Assumption. I think there was some Information on how long the Covenants Transmission to Weyland-Yutani would take i would have to try and Locate it... but i think it was 12-18 Months? Not 100% Sure.
I can only Assume that Dr Shaws Transmission from LV-223 was via the Life-Boat and we can only Ponder when this STOPPED being Transmitted and WHY.... regarding the Planet 4 one then it appeared to be a Fluke on how the Covenant Managed to Detect it.
I would assume that Planet 4 maybe had some way it Prevents Signals, and maybe the Neutrino Burst could have effected this? Or even if not, it appeared that the Signal was Weak and it was only via the Neutrino Burst Event that they would have detected it.
Regarding what becomes of LV-223, Planet 4 and Origae-6 thats a BIG QUESTION... i think it depends on the Agenda of who ever would be there LAST!
Would the Engineers want to ERADICATE those Places... i would assume so, i think some of Mankind would want to Destroy them too, but HOW? but you will have some Greedy Corporation who would always want to Preserve the Place... would they want to DESTROY them ONCE they have obtained a Specimen to Prevent others from Obtaining the Same? I would think so... unless Mankind is GOVERNED by ONE Ruling Body/Counsel.
@MonsterZero
I know a number of Fans would have wanted to see a HELL ON EARTH where Xenomorphs Finally got down and had Infested the Planet.
We dont know IF this had happened in the Past, post ALIEN 3, but would assume its NOT the case or at least to a Great Extent by the Year 2386, so a likely PLACE in Time for your idea could be as a Result of the USM Auriga Destruction/Crash and the Aftermath on Earth.
The Earth already looked in a State of War/Destruction prior to that... so some Conflict had Occurred that maybe was NOT related to the Xenomorph, and likely the Acquiring of a Xenomorph was the Plan to Engineer a Weapon for the Benefit of ONE side of such a Earth Conflict.
So indeed maybe 50, 100 or more years after the Events of Alien Resurrection the Earth could be Infested... would MANKIND want the Earth back?
I would doubt it, as by then its likely Mankind has Terra-formed and Discovered other Earth like Worlds... and Technology and Speeds to get to those Worlds would be GREATLY improved compared to the Time of ALIEN.
But as FAR as to go back to obtain some Relics, Artifacts, Art or other Parts of History then i think YES some would want to go and try and RESCUE such Historic things.... at what COST?
Taking a Risk to bring back a Xenomorph Infection would be a Hubris of such a Endeavor so YES that could work as a Movie or TV Series ;)
Archeologist and the like take Great Risks in exploring the Sea Floor for such things... rather than to let them ROT and be Forgotten, they take the Risks to Recover them... so YES as a Plot that works for me ;)
@Chli
Certainly i remember having a similar discussion on another thread some time back, where INDEED that is something i Overlooked then, which then i had discussed that actually INDEED, if you know you have a Gestating Queen (depends on how much you know about the Organism) then if the Company know about a Queen and that it would indeed Provide them with Eggs... then going down and obtaining a Gestating Queen/Chest Buster would be more IDEAL and much more SAFE... you can Control and Set-Up a Safe Containment for a Queen thats NOT a Adult.... and obtaining a Queen is a avenue to more Eggs, than actually the Dangers of going to LV-426 to obtain Eggs or try and obtain a Queen.
It would seem the USCSS Patna could already had been heading towards LV-426, and so getting a Message that Fiona 161 has a Impregnated Host with a Queen would mean they would NOT have to go to LV-426.
So INDEED only going after Ripley does-not mean all other Avenues are BUST... not as Far as the Aliens-Alien 3 Time-Line and so it would leave it open to go to LV-426 and look at what could be Salvaged in the wake of Ripleys Self Sacrifice.
I think it still leaves the Point about Alien Resurrection as Valid, to a degree.... but again IF they think that Clone Ripley in order to obtain and then try and Extract Xenomorph DNA/Queen is the better way than going back to LV-426 and the Risks Involved, we have to ask WHY did they WAIT over 200 years?
I think sure they could have tried to go back to LV-426 after the Year 2179, maybe they attempted and Failed and this lead to NO OTHER means of obtaining a Organism at some point in Future... Post 2180 and Prior to 2380
So in context to the OT, then YES we could explore avenues for movies based from LV-426 after ALIEN 3 but then i think Eventually before we get to 2380 then i would ASSUME they have NO options but to try and Clone Ripley.
The Prequels are a Different Kettle of Fish, we dont know how they would END, so we dont know if Planet 4 and LV-223 are left as they are at Present (Year 2105) and remain the same as of 2122, i think its possible... but i would ASSUME that by the Time of ALIENS in 2179 that those Places have NOTHING they consider worth going for apart from Ripley.
More so 200 Years latter, as going to LV-426, LV-223 and Planet 4 would be more suitable than to Clone Ripley, well maybe you would think IF there was other avenues MANY YEARS after 2180 then they surely would have ATTEMPTED....
I guess that could give another avenue for another Movie too ;)
@Michelle Johnston To be very honest "Why would you make monsters?" is answered also answering by studying the case of David the incel Android and his rapey urges.
Hi Chilli,
The reason why I called the two books Theodicy was just a slight variation of your interpretation. Essentially it is why is there evil in the world. During the documentary the gentleman from Fox says Prometheus is about "Why would you make monsters." That is a nice Fox power phrase which is essentially saying the same thing.
I think you get to the root of why Lindelof/Scott's Prometheus 2 was never made. Not only does Prometheus hijack the Alien Universe but it would then have moved forward with an even handed view of outcomes. The Alien straight jacket does not allow for that, the brand is about horror and monsters within a dystopian vision.
The reason I wrote the continuation novel was very selfish I wanted to be able to watch Prometheus knowing that what happened meant something.
But when Elizabeth and David set off into the heavens I decided I could take the story anywhere. We didn't have to do bad robot though he might be. We didn't have to do gung-ho Lesbian icon woman more empowered than men who survives.
I think the ultimate message of the books is centred on Ridleys comment it is arrogance to suppose two things :-
1) We are alone.
2) We are the big players we maybe a side show.
If the books reveal anything personal rather than tell a story it is my view of who we are and why we are the way we are.
And for anyone else reading this thread thanks for keeping it on topic which is essentially:-
1) Prometheus July 2012 and what was intended.
2) What an obsessive hobbyist has done to solve a problem.
Finally I am quite energised by watching the documentary and have decided rather than the rather intellectualised title I have changed it to
Prometheus : The Furious Gods.
It looks great, it sounds great and it has application.
I still can't believe they rebuilt the Space Jockey set. Such a small little scene..could have built it digitally. Maybe they stored it and are going to use it for Covenant 2?
Not enough nutrients in a cat....Not enough of a meal?
Sense of smell must be incredible? determining Ripley was carrying a queen.
I really don't know why a xeno attacks anything...can they smell fear pheromones?
If the hero stood still or stayed 'frosty' would the xeno ingnore them?
Michelle
I guess I’ll wait to comment until I’ve read your story but “theodicy” is the problem of how a benevolent and omnipotent God can accept different kinds of evil and misery in his creation. I’m very much interested in your solution.
Also, I came to think about what Tolkien said in “On Fairy-Stories”. Stories should have a happy ending ("eucatastrophe”). Perhaps R. Scott’s visions are too dystopic?
Anyway, I look very much forward to reading your story.
Leto Nice find! That seems too close to be a coincidence. I wonder if there were writers involved in both movies or if there was an old script or template writers worked from for both movies.
@chli
You are most welcome to read it. I am currently going through a period of revision. Much of it is routine sharpening both the prose and dialogue so it speaks more directly but also the art work on the Blu ray has inspired me to offer richer descriptions so I will continue to work on that and get back to you. As matter of interest where the art work anticipates and covers the same areas are :-
1) Elizabeths first site of the surreal beauty of their achievements oddly enough she approaches it in the same way in my work as the original ending of the film where she comes across a wonderful terra formed under ground cavern.
2) The source of their technology.
3) Their natural look (as opposed to the altered state of the LV223 creatures).
At a philosophical level I gave a lot of thought to the revelation of mankind's beginning why are we "a silly greedy people", what caused the destruction of LV 223 (which I do not think is what Ridley intended but thematically its identical) but the most interesting element is why did the Engineers start "making monsters." It has always been in the story but I am now making it clearer and it has a good deal to do thematically with both Frankenstein's Monster and David and of course shifts into Bladerunner territory. Its much more subtle than the paranoid world view that children will always want to destroy their parents. Its what happens if you take the love embodied in natural procreation out of the equation and do things as Charlie said "because we could"?
How much is me (Shaw) ? Wow thats an interesting question. When you write an extension each foot step you give Elizabeth and David has to be very very carefully worked over.
Elizabeth is more driven than ever "I want to go where they come from." and much more aware. "what if they are no better than us". But also "I cannot create life." for her that was a big thing and plays heavily into the story. She loved her parents and shared her fathers belief's thats important to her momentum. In terms of risk she is beyond caring she is out there alone there is only one way to go, forward, in that sense she is reckless. What happens when she finds the truth? Well without story in other words interaction with the narrative I am sure it would be to much for any human being to deal with. However the story gives her support. David is "looking for meaning" (Damon) and I keep on with that as well as Michael's view of David that he is ambiguous. You are not certain of him until the middle of Act 2.
But the key theme for both of them is connected to the tree of knowledge. If you come up against the most elemental forces of the Universe you cannot survive unchanged. If your looking for normality after all this .. its just not possible.
So Shaw/me I think its broader than that I think she continues as Damon intended to be proxy for all of us. However it seems to me if you want to be as authentic as possible you have to say how would I deal with all these horrors both physically and philosophically. People always say I don't know how you go on and the response is always I have no other option that is part of the answer. Ridley is also helpful on that because he puts Noomi Rapace the actor in that place after she survives the collision of the craft. David opens up the possibility of her questions being answered for her, thats what keeps her going and that is what drives her all through my story.
I would finish by saying I have always said that the Alien Lifecycle represents non consensual creation by sacrifice on the one hand and at the other end of spectrum the natural lifecycle, consensual creation driven by love. I think in this enlarged story there is a third way, a middle way, consensual creation by third party interference. Not only can the Alien Lifecycle be a counterfeit version of the middle way but what if you decide you would rather create for your own agenda rather than for the whim of others? Might you end up being immortalised in a temple fresco having given birth by Caesarean to your own idea of life, however bizarre the result, at least its "yours".
https://myloveofprometheus.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-making-of-prometheus.html
The Seven Topics I chose to answer are :-
1) The meaning of the waterfall incident.
2) Is the story religious.
3) The Geography. How was the LV chosen and why were their five pyramids.
4) Is the Space Jockey an Engineer.
5) The Catalyser and the Mutagen.
6) The cause of the Outbreak?
7) The Deacon and The Creature.
The most obvious point I would make is the extra blu ray disc is an extra ordinary detailed body of work which not only provides direct answers but also by endless repetitive inference, makes some matters clear and I recommend those interested acquire it.
Three things really surprised:-
1) The sense of oneness of vision of Jon/Damon and Ridley. Indeed Jon is the most eloquent in describing Prometheus even though initially the mission and outbreak in his drafts were different. Those distinctions do not affect the thematic ideas being offered. Indeed I was impressed at the singularity of vision of everyone.
2) Maybe its because people are very anti religious and simply like to pigeon hole it as Love Craftian and that sidetracked me but there is no doubt Ridleys intension was to tell a story about a purposeful creation which would have a view about who made the Engineers - God. It is just that God and the Soul would be defined from a different perspective to an Abrahamic benevolent God with heaven for the souls of the departed. But the scenes with Elizabeth's father, Weyland's Holographic talk about the soul and the fact that Elizabeth was a believer were not part of the story by coincidence they are key.
3) As someone who took the original narrative themes and ran with them I was looking for more clues as to where they intended to go next. LV223 was anthrax island where to use a colloquialism they made monsters and the point of the film was to give context as to why they made the cargo of Eggs. So the "cool ideas" which Ridley and Damon discussed would have taken us to somewhere entirely different. By the time we leave LV223 we know we do not like our creators and that creation far from being driven by a benign God is driven by something we don't actually care for. So we have as context Frankenstein/Monster, Weyland/David. Why don't the Monster and David like their creator and become adversarial? So whether the planet looks crack jack or not in story terms thats what I think David and Elizabeth were coming into.
The Engineers of the Pebble ship are described as noble savages, I would add to that the scene that plays out is violent and aggressive. This it seems to me moves in on where Ridley was going. To make a story out of a planned creation where there was no emotional connection between creator and created and this is where David coming along acts as our proxy.
