Comments (Page 200)
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I can't really dig into psychology or anything too much, but yes. I tHInk that feeling of being small, backed in a corner, or versus an impossible enemey or obstacle to overcome, is something that we, as humans, keep coming back to.
I think there is a desire to face ouR inner fears, failures, or just push forward and do something. It is a lot easier to udnerstand things or do something (I tihnk. A times.) if there is a clear perosn or thing to get through. It is especially easy to feel like you've done that when you are simluating it. In a video game is GREAT way because it is you controlling things and doing it. Horror movies, books, etc., are all good ways to simulate the human experience. T ojust have an experience, feel like you have been through something and changed. This is one of the magical things about films and books. It can be a negative experience too
I haven't seen Star Beast. At this point, why should I?
More Enhanced Images of Dan O'Bannon's Starbeast idea. We can see from the Full Image which i Enhanced a bit on the Left, that the Creature was similar to Ron Cobb’s Effort at the Bottom as far as its Anatomy to a degree.
I think the Bi-Pedal like Xenomorph we got was better as far as Design, but maybe a Amalgamation could be used for the STARBEAST.
There was ONE Concept for Alien Covenant well Prometheus 2 or was it Alien 5? That had Praying Mantis like Appendages that was Bipedal but i cant seem to Locate it.
I would like to see some of O'Bannon's Concept introduced into the Franchise if they Explore something NEW.
BD- you are way too kind to spend that much time on this turd.
AVPR was so bad, that when I put it out with the garbage, the automated truck made sure it was the only thing to stay in the garbage can.
@BigDave,
All of the above please! lol!
I'd like 1b or 5.
Call it Alien:Evolution
Human babies are being born(Earth or colonies) with stubby tails and elongated craniums.
(The military no longer has to search for the xeno...We are giving birth to them!)
All a long play plan of the Engineers.
#2 would probably be my choice.
@DK
Option 2: Indeed this is like Alien Isolation so it would be a case of HOW does this Tie In or Effect that Game or do we go for those as being NONE-CANON?
When we look at the Derelict in ALIEN and in ALIENS we see the Ship has suffered Damage, at the time of those Movies it was suspected the Ship had been on LV-426 for a LONG LONG Time and so Wear/Tear over Time would not account for the Damage, also what are the Chances a ONCE in a LONG LONG Time STORM had caused it? Could it had been Volcanic Activity or a Earthquake?
To me it looks like the Damage was caused by some Conflict, Weapons, Explosives and the Like... so thats something such a OPTION 2 could explore.
@Leto
Indeed OPTION 9: Could be Interesting because we have NOT been shown the Origin of the Black Goo or WHY it seems to have Different Effect in the Sacrificial Scene vs other times we have seen it.. So was the Goo obtained from another Alien Species? Was the Goo a Creation Tool that was USED on a Encountered Species that lead to the Black Goo and LV-223 Experiments.
So YES this could be a interesting aspect to Explore as it would be UNLIKELY the Prequel Route would Answer this so it would not Contradict the Alien Covenant and Sequels if another Movie set say after 2200 would explore the Origins of the Black Goo and/or LV-223. This could give us a Chance to Re Visit the Starbeast Plot.
AVPR was so dark and poorly lit, that I had to wear this thing just so I could see what was happening.
And even that didn't really help, movie itself was cr@p.
I think we REALLY need to look at the SET-UP, and remember that the Movie AVPR is a Sequel.
And so its a case of WHERE do they go NEXT?
So with the ENDING that was Scar Predator having a Chest Buster that leaves us with the Pred-Alien, then THIS was the likely ROUTE to Continue....... Then its also likely your going to need Human Characters, and so it was Logical that the SHIP would be heading to Earth.
Your left then with the case of WHERE!
So do you have the Ship Crash in/near a City?, a Rural Small Town or a Isolated Village? Then we come to the NECESSITY for it to be in a English Speaking Country, as this is more simple as SADLY yes most Movies do prefer to be based on English for Wider Access to Puplic. So then your left with going to say USA, Canada, Hawaii, the UK, or say Australia/New Zealand (there are other options).
So they decided the USA and to a Rural Town....
The PROBLEMS ARISE..... from having the Movie being a Continuation of a Time-Line of the 21st Century, but i guess its a case of would having the Setting be another Isolated Place like the Antarctic again work?
I am sure many had Wondered what happens IF the Xenomorph gets to Earth and a Populated Place, and WELL... this is what AVPR attempts to Answer.....
So your already LIMITED to what you can do, but then the BIGGEST PROBLEM... is Purely the Execution...
Execution from how to Write a Story about such a Plot was a bit Flawed, the Execution of said Plot as far as Casting/Writing and Acting was Below Par and Special Effects was not as Great!
We get that with Movies though.... Alien Resurrections Execution was NOT as good as the Previous Movies, The THING prequel Plot Wise it could have worked, it was how they Fleshed Out and explored such a Plot but more so Execution that was just Sub Par!
So it was the EXECUTION that was POOR...
We ENDED up with a Movie thats like a lot of Survival Horror Flicks.... such as you see on Sy-Fy Channel....
Where they are all basically the same apart from you replace the ANTAGONIST/MONSTER and the Plot of HOW they are Discovered, Introduced or Summoned and what they Look Like and How they Respond/Kill.....
So replace Xenomorph with Zombie, with Toxic Mutant, another Alien Species, Summoned Demon, Leprechaun etc.....
And AVPR was just like those but throw in Xenomorphs!
What do you think about this Interpretation (by Harnois75) of the ORIGINAL DEACON from the Mural?
This 12ft Monstrosity would make a Formidable Beast and likely be too much of a Match for the Xenomorph but NOT the Queen.
I think The Predator is worth watching once. It's unapologetic over the top sci fi entertainment meant for checking your brain at the door. Some of the humor is juvenile and there is a weird lull in the middle, but it picks back up.
AVP is good pure sci fi geeky fun while AVPR is possibly the worst movie made for its genre ever.
'The Predator' is really really bad. 'AVPR' is also really really bad. There's not much to choose between them in terms of badness, so don't plan on having a good night's viewing, BigDave.
I actually quite like AVP, on the other hand. It's a good suspense/action movie. I still wish they'd never meshed the Alien and Predator universe, but AVP is streets ahead of these other two turkeys.
BigDave I don't think anything is as bad or worse than AVPR.
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION!
So where would you like to take the Franchise Next if say there was to be ANOTHER MOVIE, which could End-Up as a Stand Alone or Spawn a New Series of Movies
So which of these do you think they should do?
1a) Do we Carry on with a Direct Alien Resurrection Sequel and so would be about Ripley 8?
1b) Carry on with a Direct Alien Resurrection Sequel that would not be a Continuation Ripley 8?
2) Do we offer a Movie that goes back to the Derelict after the events of Alien but prior to Aliens. (Alien Isolation did this).
3) Do we go back to the Derelict/LV-426 after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope, and how soon after would this be?
4) Do we look at a Parallel Plot to Alien Resurrection that for instance follows what happened to the Failed Ripley 7 Queen?
5) Do we go another Avenue of Related Horrors that come from Engineers or Davids Experiments, as in go to other Places where Eggs or Black Goo had been Deployed? And if so then what Time-Line?
6) Do we go with Alien Isolation as in making a Sequel to the Game? (as we know what the Events of Alien Isolation are via Game/Novel).
7) Do we explore the Survival/Capture of the Xenomorph or Queen that are Floating in Space? (could also be the one from Covenant).
8) Do we go for a RET-CON of one of the Quadrilogy Franchise Movies? AKA like Blomkamps Alien 5.
9) Do we go to a place where we uncover the Origins of what lead to the Engineers Experiments and Black Goo, which could be some place FAR FAR Away?
10) Give your TWO Cents on a Alternative, as in HOW do we do another ALIEN Movie that would introduce us to SOME kind of ALIEN Monster, that is related to a degree to the Black Goo/Xenomorph!
I still have yet to Watch The Predator but its on my Cable TV Service next week so i will watch it then, surely it cant be as bad as AVPR! lol
I think while Alien Covenant is not the Sequel that most wanted, it also seemed to be NOT quite what appeared to be the Direction if we look at Prior to 2014. I think Prometheus left it open to EXPAND this Story in Many Ways, which Alien Covenant had just Clipped the Wings off that Bird.....
So its always Interesting to get another persons idea of HOW they would have Continued the Prequels. I have not been Commenting on this Topic, because my replies can be too much in Depth and with the Subject Matter at Hand and Scope of WHAT could have happened after Prometheus, my Feedback would just kind of be TOO LONG and maybe Derail the Thread....
But i certainly am Interested in seeing your TAKE on what to have done NEXT, just as i would with others who would have wanted to go ahead and explain WHAT they would have Done Next....
While Alien Covenant will likely remain Canon... and to Continue with the Path is NOW more Simplistic but Disappointing, i still think its GREAT to discus Prometheus and what it could have led to because that Movie had almost Unlimited Scope, so its Good to see how others would have Continued with the Story.
@Michelle Johnston I'm sorry to have divagated from the original post. But for me, Covenant cannot be unseen and that from those 3 only Lindelof had the spine to not cave-in also says much. Scott was with the sequel only a businessman and Fassbender wanted his own franchise, so I cannot sympathize with either.
But I am really happy for you, none the less.
To support my post, here is a 5 minute video describing the allure of scary movies and games from a more scientific perspective.. Sorry if I cannot embed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UH-JDPdNws
There are other videos that are more in-depth but are either political or too on the nose imo.
Dark Nebula I have to agree that AVP is better than Predator 2018. Both are good popcorn flicks but I think AVP has more re watch value.
I am sure you won't find this response censorious if I say I only want in this thread to discuss Prometheus and its associated materials up to the day it was released in July 2012.
So we have a savvy woman the sole survivor and a humbled robot. The only credible way to take the story forward is that David responds to Elizabeths decision to show him more kindness than anyone else by being affected. Anything else lacks coherence and would ignore the basic rules of drama.
I will permit myself one "fall" that "Furious Gods" repeatedly reminds the viewer of the kind of movie that Ridley was desperate to avoid making. Over and over again he talks of being fresh of moving to new ground of fresh takes on everything. I won't insult you by asking you to think about how that relates to the 20th Century Fox movie from 2017 set in the same universe.
What gives me huge joy and excitement is to know I did not project my view of what Prometheus was "all about" its there for all to see in 420 minutes of material. What you as a highly intelligent articulate person seeking fresh experiences can be reassured by is that at least three key people Fassbender, Scott and Lindelof were well aware they were taking a risk. They knew the vocal core fanbase much better than the core fanbase and their U Tube diatribes know the movie and what it was trying to do.
I think when looking at a ALIEN Movie some Fans may think the Franchise should be about the Xenomorph, and so the Prequels and especially Prometheus seemed to go against this and STEER AWAY...
I think some wanted FULL ORIGINS... but i think for Most it was a case of the Clues where NOT good enough, and the ONLY Monsters we had close to ALIEN would had been the Hammerpede, the Trilobite and Deacon, who never really did much Damage or had much Screen Time to the LEVEL the Xenomorphs had in the Franchise, and so with Alien Engineers there was more Xenomorphy like Scenes....
So the POINT i am raising is that the Fans seem to think the Franchise should STICK with Alien Monsters, but maybe we dont have to explore ALIEN Monsters that are Identical or Near Identical to the Xenomorphs...
So if as Gavin has mentioned a Few Times, the Xenomorph in Alien and Aliens are from Different Cargo Holds, then we could ASK... how many more Variants are on the Derelict?
How many more Derelict like Ships had Contained Egg Cargo's and WHERE are these and their Cargo?
The LV-223 Experiments and Black Goo can Produce Various Monsters, does the Black Goo Origins only come from this PLACE? Had the Engineered Failed to Deploy such Horrors and so the only Origin/History of the Xenomorphs and Horrors from the Black Goo only Stem from the Trail that David has taken.... so from a Outbreak on LV-223, to taking this Pathogen to Planet 4, to Engineer it, to then taking it further on Origae-6 and then Results Ending up on LV-426.
Its that all the Place such Horrors had existed in the Pre-Alien Time Line?
If SO then does the Derelict have Multiple Variants of the Eggs?
If NOT then what state would the Eggs be in after Hadleys Hope Destruction, would their be Radioactive Fall Out and what effects would Radiation have on Mutating those Eggs?
IF we accept David had Re-engineered the Neomorphs and used the Black Goo to Engineer Various Monsters, then surely the COMPANY could do the same or similar?
Alien Resurrection showed signs the Xenomorphs were somewhat different.... we also had the New Born which in Concept was interesting, just Aesthetically it was a bit Comical.... it need NOT have been... (look how Horrific the Neomorph looked in Comparison).
So there are Avenues to introduce Xenomorphs that are Different, and Do-Not have to go the Avenue that Directly Follow Davids path, or more so be about Ripleys!
So if the Prequels seem a Quandary to Continue, and Fans want more ALIEN/ALIENS then we can find ways to introduce them, without Conflicting the other Movies, and also Introduce Variations as i think if we go for another ALIEN Movie, with the Xenomorph like in Alien Covenant/Alien or Aliens then its HOW-MANY such Movies like that can you SPEW out before you CREMATE the Beast?
Regarding Telepathy this could be Speculated as Forming a HIVE MIND... and i think its something the Xenomorph could Posses... i think we have to Remember the Franchise is Sci-Fi which means its where we can Merge the Boundaries of Science with Fiction, but also incorporate Elements of Fantasy too.
I think certainly from a AI POV, then Synthetics and the like as a AI would posses such Ability or could be given it. If the AIM was to Eventually infer to us that a Synthetic would play a Part in the Evolution of the Xenomorph from Alien Covenant, then having a Form of Telepathy makes sense.
some of Davids Experiments did seem to be making Hybrids of what seemed Part Neomorph and Part Engineer, and it seemed these had Evolved/Engineered to have some kind of Telepathic Communication.
Ridley Scott had claimed the NEXT movie would NOT have been about he Xenomorph, but about AI but also about WHAT it is that David would Create Next, looking at those Human Embryo's i wonder if he would attempt to CREATE his own Version of Humanoids, Superior and maybe he could incorporate some of his Experiments and indeed Create a Species that uses Telepathy!
If he does such a thing, and this Creation becomes Rebellious, well a Rebellious Movement can Spread more if your Rebellious Creations are Telepathic and such a Trait could be a Hubris for David...
But as a Creator.... you need a Back Up Plan, and when your LAMBS are not turning out as intended then you will need a WOLF to eradicate them.
So what i am saying is WHAT happens if a Xenomorph is Born from a Species that are Telepathic? Would then inherit this Trait? would it become more Refined and Evolved?
I think that the ideas of each Director, Writer and Production from Movie to Movie does change a lot, i would say MOST expanded Novels, Games and Comics seem to fit more with the Xenomorph being as portrayed in ALIENS and AVP.
A lot has changed from the Inception of Concept (Starbeast) and so i think we maybe have to accept the Changes....
I think as Gavin pointed out that having the Xenomorph in ALIEN come from a Different Cargo Hold makes sense, with Alien Engineers the indication was the Ships would have 8 Different Cargo Holds with each Xenomorph being a different Variant within each Cargo Hold.
I am not so sure that having a Vast Difference in how each Xenomorph would behave would be Good... i think to Aesthetically look Different a bit, and to have a different Procreation method would be Good. But to have ONE Specific Xenomorph as being more Civilized, Intelligent to the point of being able to Mimic a Human would be a Stretch...
Unless its revealed that ALL of the Xenomorphs could do the same, given Time.
I would say the Xenomorph and Variants are a Engineered Creation, but we can Speculate that its Engineered from WHAT! And i think this would be the best way to Explore something Different more Intelligent.
I think the Xenomorph has been over done, and while we can have Different Versions, i think maybe the BEST route would be to Introduce something Similar but Different... Give us the Ultramorph/Necronom IV and incorporate some of the Unused Ideas into that MONSTER.... we could have them revealed as a Ancient Xenomorph Colony that Evolved, ONE that has been Re-Engineered be that by Engineers, David or Humans.
Or introduce them as a ANCIENT STARBEAST and then infer that the Xenomorph DNA/Black Goo Traces its routes back to this Ultramorph.
@Chli
Certainly by the time of ALIEN Resurrection it seems the Weyland-Yutani Corporation is NOT a Big Player/Gone..... It would be interesting to Wonder WHEN/WHY... and also HOW the United Systems Military (USM) came to obtain knowledge of Ripley and the Xenomorph.... it seems this Corporation was Founded nearly 50 years after the Events of ALIENS.
So we could speculate had the W-Y Company gave up the Pursuit of the Xenomorph after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope? Had they continued and was this Pursuit something that lead to their DOWNFALL?
And if the USM became a Power about 50 Years after Hadleys Hopes Destruction, then had USM not been interested in the Xenomorph for about 160 Years until they attempted to obtain ONE via Cloning Ripley 8, or had they attempted other Avenues at some point in the say 150 Years Prior?
So those are Avenues to cover a Story/Plot too.
'Telepathy is not a science'
I would think they could go with a brainwave altering force(through em) if the Xeno has some way to produce such a field?
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/brain-stimulation-therapies/brain-stimulation-therapies.shtml
Being in a 'xeno field' could cause seizures or make you feel great!
?
It sums up the mess pretty good. Interesting that "the eggmorphing" wasn't intended to transform the victim into an egg. The victim was intended to be food for the egg (or what was in it).
Almost all ideas and themes will work well with Alien... Almost... Alien is sci-fi. Telepathy is not a science, not even a part, not even an assumption. It's a clear magic. I hope in Alien film will never be telepathy.
I debated making a separate thread for this video but I think it best serves the discussion in this thread :)
enjoy, Ze Goo
@Michelle Johnston what I was saying (maybe not very clearly) the provided information (David) can also respond to that question and some argue that Prometheus was always about David. And Because of Fassbender play always an @-hole is very unlikely someone from Fox would want anything else than an evil robot.
Big Chap knew that the only thing keeping it safe from a smackdown was the box that held Jonesy back XD
I didn't use the term "why would you make monsters" the guy from Fox did. It was his short hand for explaining Prometheus to himself and how to sell it. What I think is much more fertile territory is to look at why evil exists in an Intelligent Universe and what can go wrong. As Jon Spaiht's said the monsters simply signify the danger the Engineers can represent. Something had gone wrong already because the danger was to themselves as well.
The real issue is a part of humanity, represented by Elizabeth, tends to think that morality is the consequence of the benign circumstances in which we were created. What this story is capable of asking us to think about is can there be morality and dare I say love in an engineered universe. In Foxes terms do all robots have to be bad.
In this story we were going to be destroyed 2,000 years ago but we were actually saved, coincidence? Important? If it were important then that suggests someone is at least interested if not benignly supportive and yet its an intelligent universe where everything is a construction one way or another. How would a God of an Engineered Universe respond to rebellion, its happened, how do you put it right?
So we now have three questions.
How does an Engineered Universe go wrong?
How would the powers respond ?
How would you put it right?
At that point of the movie, the Xeno's objective seemed to be getting to safety. Jones was clearly not a threat. Perhaps the xeno just observed J as a curiosity. Maybe it was as simple as that- but I wonder if it was some kind of acknowledgement that it recognized another living creature but was not related to its target- humans. Perhaps the xeno displayed a form of ethics.
"returning to the original concept and ideas of a truly alien organism is what the franchise needs to continue"
I too may sound like a broken record here. Showing different aspects of the Alien can be a great way to give it a breath of fresh air. In an unused ending, it mimicked a human voice with the intent of misleading the comms' recipient. I have heard that in at least one of the novelizations that it had telepathic powers.
Introducing these concepts in movie form would seem new for a movie, but they are from past lore, so it wouldn't be like writers would be just making up things.
OK. I look forward to reading it, Michelle.
I'm with Gavin on the Xeno.
Probably a great topic for another thread..but....What advantages could a bio-mechanical xeno have over purely biological one?
@BigDave
I would doubt it, as by then its likely Mankind has Terra-formed and Discovered other Earth like Worlds
Yeah....Think I would write it so many of the Earth's colonies have been overrun and the further they explore..the more xeno infested worlds they find.....In fact they find billions of worlds with nothing but xenos/trilobytes/deacons/hammerpeades and other really nasty creatures.
In episode 10...they finally leave the galaxy(no where to hide)......but after arriving to the brand new one(1,000 years later or something) they find it's even worse!
*spoiler alert!*
They find a correlation between dark matter/energy and xeno infestations!
The End.
@chli
There are two issues (at least) which I back filed :-
1) Why the Lone Craft has a different cargo.(Damon says in the commentary that will probably never get answered. I get that its detail which doesn't affect the themes) If your going to (go there) which i did it cannot be gratuitous it has to be for story. Its connected to Piero della francesca's - The Nativity, which is a signpost to go there and the rest unfolds.
2) The metaphor for the Promethean's (LV223) and the Deacon is Weyland/David. Weyland loved his creation for himself because he achieved it. But equally he despised (The Hologram speech) and feared him (David's wake up scene). The other similarity (in my story) between the Promethean's and Weyland is they are both rebelling to whatever their natural order is. However the reason for the Prometheus movement (the theft of technology) is about a failure on both sides.
3) The pilot of the Lone craft is on a specific journey and his obliteration is the most violent because he was going to pursue the greatest evil. He is caught in the story of appropriate sacrifice.
4) In an intelligent universe where creation is neither magnanimous or accidental the methodology is inevitably going to appear brutal, unsympathetic and violent. Someone has to do the heavy lifting. The question is there any grace in this any sense of value for the participants. I took the chant and the delivery of the sacrament as being one of noble sacrifice and because what is being transmitted (in my story), is the most precious commodity of this Universe, it has value and is understood to do so. The donation is not simply about the creation tool if it was you would just throw the imbibing cup in the falls it is about the material and the vessel that carries it. It is a rite of passage not just superstitious mumbo jumbo. For the viewer of the movie to consider it smj is to miss the point of the story, this is about an Engineered nuts and bolts creation. Obviously there will always be smart asses that no everything about creation and say it doesn't hold up as a plausible idea but this is provocative entertainment which is intended to make you think not a NASA dissertation.
In closing there are lots of reasons why Prometheus is an exceptional movie which will grow its cult status but there are many reasons why it fails with people and not least because its prime method of communication is thematic and symbolic which doesn't fit the fanbase or the modern audiences preoccupation with bit by bit detail over suspension.
BigDave
It seems that W-Y Corp. declined after the Fiorina incident. Perhaps that’s the answer why no more projects were launched (They gave up trying to get hold of a xenomorph)?
The Aurora was run by the USM (not by W-Y). But how did they get the information about the xenomorph and why 200 years later (Well, it was founded in 2226)?
IMO the Queen aspect has been done to death, and as evidenced by BigDaves replies is what many consider to be the Alien.
I know I may sound like a stuck record but the alien as depicted in the first movie has not been explored since that movie, and I believe returning to the original concept and ideas of a truly alien organism is what the franchise needs to continue and to evolve because fans and audiences are tired of Queens, Facehuggers, and Chestbursters.
IMO the more organic, more insectoid, and less threatening alien we saw in all but the first movie can easily be explained as a variant form that did not originate from the cache off eggs Kane discovered, but instead from another part of the derelict. Once we clarify this the narrative choices afforded to us from an endlessly adaptive alien thing that I like to think as neither organic nor mechanic but both (organic robot meets mechanical creature)
Michelle
I read your “The Furious Gods Answers” (I also watched the documentary) and I think I agree with most of your conclusions. I’m especially pleased that the Space Jockey is an Engineer (and not David for instance). :) He was also connected to the outbreak on LV-223, but it isn’t, perhaps, quite clear why there were eggs rather than mutagen in the cargo hold?
Why would you create monsters? Well, Frankenstein’s “monster” and David became monsters because they were treated badly. But why did the Engineers worship the Deacon (if that’s what they did)? Was it just a biological weapon made to eradicate worlds, why then worship it?
The theodicy problem is, in a way, easily solved since the Engineers were neither gods nor benevolent. The seeding Engineers were savages dealing with hominid sacrifice and the LV-223 Engineers were mass murderers.
I think “Prometheus: The Furious Gods” is a good title, resembling “The Wrath of God”. But since humans and Engineers are cousins, I wonder if there is a furious God looking down on both of them? :)
I think we have to Remember that RS is Hands On, he likes using SETS and not CGI, it also helps the Actors on Set so they can get a Picture of what is around them, rather than to Imagine it.
I would assume IF the Movie had the Green Light for 1-2 Sequels to be made 3-5 years after, then YES they would KEEP the SET.... but with the Take Over and Disappointment putting the Franchise in LIMBO.
Then chances are the SET could be taken down and Sold/Scraped.
