Comments (Page 244)

One interesting thing is that most people who watched Alien back in the days probably didn’t notice all the sexual symbolism which was an important part of Giger’s work. It wasn’t explicit and Scott also wanted to show as little as possible of the monster. I wonder if all the sexual elements subconsciously affected the audience in some way?

As for Christian symbolism, since this topic is about eggs :), the egg symbolizes birth or rebirth of Christ (Easter). In this context, we have the (perpetual) rebirth of the xenomorph . . .

I think Gavin has a good point when he says that the Alien Universe would shrink and become less frightening and less open if the Engineers engineered the xenomorph. The universe would be more interesting and terrifying if there are galaxies with solar systems and planets filled with different kinds of species -some benevolent and some extremely dangerous.

Some of the books which are set within the alien universe (canon or not), e.g. “Out of the Shadows”, play with the idea that the xenomorph is a species and the eggs can be found on many planets throughout the universe.

So, if the engineers didn’t create the xenomorph, what were they experimenting with on LV-223? As Gavin points out, the engineers could have found the egg cave on LV-426 and used the eggs in their experiments. I don’t see the xenomorphs as intelligent enough to have an abstract agenda, more like ants. The question would then be why there weren’t any adult xenomorphs on LV-426?

Anyway, if the engineers on LV-223 worshipped the xenomorph, seeing the potential in the species, they might have extracted the black goo from it. Consequently, the pathogen contains the xenomorph DNA, which Gavin points out, and therefore transforms the ones exposed to it in the direction towards a xenomorph (the hammerpede had acid for blood, the trilobite, the deacon etc).

"I just fear there has been so much Damage to the Xenomorphsince after Alien 3, which includes Movies, Games and Comics that its Hard to place the Xenomorph in a Role at the Top of the Hierarchy."

For many audiences, the most impactful moments in a movie are the opening and closing scenes. With a good movie the former seeds their interest, pulls them into the narrative while the latter, being the last element of the movie they'll remember helps shape their entire experience of the movie - think of how a bad or mediocre ending reduced your opinion of a movie.

# Alien - Only Ripley survived & a cache of thousands of deadly Alien eggs remains.

# Aliens - Ripley survives again, with friends and "seemingly" the eggs have been destroyed.

# Alien 3 - Ripley dies, taking with her possibly the last specimen of the Alien race.

# Alien: Resurrection - Ripley survives again, with friends and "seemingly" all the Aliens have been destroyed.

# Prometheus - David and Shaw survive departing to discover existential answers.

# Alien: Covenant - David survives again, holding 2000+ colonists hostage.

With the Alien franchise, the best endings were with Alien and Prometheus, whereas Alien 3's ending feels poetic, as for Aliens, Resurrection, and Covenant, their endings feel generic...

My point?

Alien and Prometheus' endings were the most impactful because of the possibilities they offered and the threat they posed. As such, imagine an ending to the next movie but using my theory, whereby a character asks some ancient Alien interface the simple question of "How many", referring to the number of eggs on LV-426, but because the question is so open-ended the interface answers completely, showing an ever larger map of the galaxy/universe and that their caches of eggs hidden throughout. Such an ending takes the conclusion of Alien and magnifies it exponentially.

Such a conclusion married with a movie that returns the Alien to its prominence as an effective antagonist, is IMO what the series needs and what we as fans want - a return to form.

dk, yeah "The Matrix" and "Equilibrium" are both great and despite the fact they're mostly action oriented and not horror/suspense, they do have some "Alien"ish overtones to them (specially "The Matrix").

And I totally agree with "Virus" lol... that's on my list of movies with "Alien" vibes I WOULDN'T recommend alongside others I have already mentioned like "The Relic", "Apollo 18", "The Last Days on Mars", "Red Planet" and "Ghost of Mars" (thankfully along came "The Martian" to somewhat redeem Mars based movies xD ).

Of course there Is The Matrix and Equilibrium.

I would not recommend this though:

Lone, indeed it was! I thought it was a great movie. I didn’t hear very good things about the tv adaption sadly though.

Batchpool, that looks like a fun watch! I have to admit to watching “The Room” twice with friends and it was a super fun experience, so maybe I’ll watch this one too! Those “so bad is good” movies can be fun as hell to enjoy with others.

Chris, woah, thanks for the feature! I just recently joined this forum but it’s fast becoming one of my favorite places on the web right now.

NinXeno426, oh cool! I'll be sure to check that thread out, thanks! About "Ghots of Mars", I thought about that one when I was making my list and I get it's supposed to be a B Movie but sadly I didn't find it very enjoyable at all, but its cool that other people liked it.

So, I just thought about more movies to add to my list that I think have “Alien” vibes to them and that are really good in my opinion… None of these movies are set in space but all of them feature very menacing monsters/aliens/creatures/animals/entities that pose a great threat to the protagonists and that generate a fair amount of tension in several scenes of said movies.

First, another one of my all-time faves, “Cloverfield”. I absolutely love this movie, I remember having so much fun watching it in theaters when it came out and I really loved the mysterious marketing campaign behind it. Terrific special effects, creature design and very tense scenes (the subway scene with the parasites greatly reminded me of “Alien”). I enjoyed the other movies in the “Cloververse” but to me this is by far the best.

This one I have always thought is one hell of a underrated movie, and its  “The Ghost and the Darkness”, I think is really awesome, to the point that I always put it together in my mind with "Jaws” among the best killer animal movies I’ve seen. The movie has great scenes of extreme tension (without spoiling much, that dream sequence in this was one of the most horrifying moments I’ve ever experienced while watching a movie), great special effects and terrific acting. A must watch for me.

This is kind of a weird choice, and it’s a movie I recommend with some caution cause apparently is one of those films you either love or you hate, and its “It Follows”. I really loved it and found it very unnerving, creepy and weird, but I’ve read A LOT of people saying it’s a piece of boring art house crap (not unlike the reaction a lot of people had to other indie horror films highly praised by critics like “The VVitch”, “The Babadook”, “It Comes at Night” and “Hereditary”). The foreboding and feeling of unease that the entity in this movie creates in the viewer reminded me greatly of “Alien”.

“The Faculty”: This one is a kinda silly and fun movie that fans of classics like “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” should enjoy, and I’m sure most people on this forum must be familiar with it. I think its great fun and it has nice creature effects in it and some self referential humor.

“The Descent”: This movie really left an impression on me when I first saw it, for a number of reasons, one of which was that the movie has very tense moments even before the first creature makes its appearance. The feeling of isolation and claustrophobia the movie gives off reminded me a lot of “Alien” and it has very creepy moments and really good scares.

This one I find really weird that no one have mentioned it already, and its M. Night Shyamalan’s “Signs”. I really liked this movie, and how it mixed incredibly tense moments with some humor. I remember being hugely creeped out with the scene of the newscast about the brazilian home video. Really great flick.

“Annihilation”: I had very very high expectations of this one because of how much I loved Alex Garland’s previous feature, “Ex Machina”, and even though I liked it, it didn’t blow me away like I thought it would. Still, it’s a really solid and thought provoking movie, and it has one sequence of immense tension related to a creature that´s memorable as hell and very reminiscent of the “Alien” movies. For quite a while I have been thinking that Alex Garland would be a GREAT fit for the “Alien” franchise in my opinion.

“Sphere”: This one I hesitated a lot of putting it on the list because is one of those movies that for me, it began really REALLLY interesting and suspenseful, but then about midway through it began to lose steam and it ended up being kind of a mess, at least for me, but the movie has its strong points (atmosphere, set design, visual effects, acting) and it has a good score on IMDB so despite my gripes with it I decided to include it because it seems a lot of people enjoyed it. Either way I say, again, I’m sure most people on this forum have probably seen it already.

This looks pretty ambitious. Thanks for giving something to watch for.

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/48402

Forgot the link lol

You're most welcome Decs.Here is a link to a thread I ran on Outland s while which includes a trailer as well as a link provided by Lone to her own editorial on the film.

Another movie I might recommend is Ghosts of Mars directed by none other than John Carpenter. It's a pretty fun b movie,very comparable to Event Horizon.

I think when looking at any theory, i think we need to consider and hope this is to be explored...

That there has to be more of a Coincidence that the Derelict and Egg Cargo/Silo do have a Aesthetic shared with the Xenomorph to a degree..

And also that the Derelict Ship and its Pilot Chair look Purposely Built/Grown for the Space Jockey Pilots.

The Question is WHAT is the connection and in what ORDER is the Role of those Elements...  SHIP, the PILOT, the CARGO and so which is the Hierarchy of that Order?

Ridley Scott with the Prequels and his ideas prior seemed to paint that the Order was Space Jockey ==>Ship==>Cargo.

Some these ideas on here seem to be more a Fan of Cargo==>Ship==>Space Jockey

HR Gigers work seems to be a bit Ambiguous to either of such a Order.   Can we Elevate the Xenomorph back to more of a Role than merely being a Super Advanced form of Weapon?

I am not so sure.... it could work, but it could back fire badly..  Introducing something similar but different and ancient maybe could work though.

I just fear there has been so much Damage to the Xenomorph since after Alien 3, which includes Movies, Games and Comics that its Hard to place the Xenomorph in a Role at the Top of the Hierarchy.

Ha Ha.... Nice Point Leto!

Maybe the more AI element that RS was on about is David attempts to create the Perfect Automated Tea Making Service.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I think for most, they would see no way that David could Redeem himself due to how he was in Alien Covenant.... and a World of Humanoids that he created would be hard for Fans to attach to, especially if they are Vastly Superior.

the only way your gonna get any Sympathy would be to show David as a Kind Creator/Leader to his Creations, then have the Humans Turn up and some of these are EVIL SOB'S as lets Face it while RS may think the most Horrific Dangerous thing about AI is when it becomes Sentient and Determines we are just Cockroaches on Earth then we are in TROUBLE...

We can look at Engineers as Evil... we can look at God from the Bible as Evil at times, as far as a bit harsh! but they have reasons for it...

But in reality Mankind is Neutral for the Most Part, but you can have some Wonderful Kind Humans... but then there is through History a LOT of very EVIL/WICKED and Cruel things that Mankind has done..

So YES we Humans are the Ultimate Evil....

Making Humans the Bad Guys could work... it could make Davids World a bit more like that in AVATAR though... and for it to work you would have to have some Sympathetic Humans to David and his Creations, who go against the Wickedness of some of the Human Antagonist....  but where we have a FEW new Human Characters as the main Protagonist.

But its a case of WHO could fit such a role?  Daniels?..  Maybe they KILLED Dr Shaw off to early ;)

@hox

Indeed i think if we consider such a concept... it takes their Technology to a whole level of Alieness.... something which HR Giger had touched upon when he thought the Derelict was GROWN ;)

@Gavin

I think the ideas you have are kind of interesting and maybe a way to go.. regardless of if we have the Xenomorph Elevated or introduce something New or have the Space Jockey as NOT a Engineer... i think getting to something Dark and very Alien/Lovecraftian is the way to go.

Prometheus however opened up a lot of themes... some are worried about all the Religious Stuff... but dont worry i dont think the Emphasis would have been on... about connecting the Bible Literally!    I think a lot of people OVERLOOK that David is the Proxy! what we are seeing with David could be the Repeating Theme and Answers.

(and so God Created Adam and Eve, so he can praise and love them and allow them eternal life in Paradise)

Is this really the Creation Point, as far as replace GOD with the Engineers?  The Sumerian Mythos is OLDER and basically shows Mankind are Created to merely replace a Rebellious Slave Race!

I feel the Franchise is more closer to that.... and so in this context when  looking at HR Gigers Concepts, we could get the impression that the Space Jockey Humanoids are playing a Role to Sacrifice some of their kind and Pilot those Bio-Mechanical Ships to Seed those Eggs across the Galaxy...   we can ponder some other Race/Species is at the TOP of the Hierarchy and they require those Humanoids for this Purpose but in return those Humanoids are granted LIFE, Limited Knowledge and Technology... like maybe how the Engineers Granted Mankind.

So then in this case, we could look at those Humanoids (Engineers) had Rebelled and then became the New Gods, and maybe Created Mankind for a not so Benevolent Reason... or those who Created/Used the Engineers had Created Mankind to replace the Engineers.

I think in any Continuation/Changes we would have to keep to some of the Themes the Prequels explored but then look at how we can TAKE them to the Next Level, rather than THROW them out.

Regarding the SEX.... shame on YOU!!! LOL

But indeed a lot of HR Gigers works are very related and the whole Xenomorph, especially as far as ALIEN was very Sexual and Sadistic as far as its Agenda/Procreation.

When we look at HR Gigers Mural for ALIEN, then indeed it does come across very Sexually Reproductive, where it depicts the Ships are Giant Reproductive Vessels.

The Question in this CONTEXT is how... when we look at HR Gigers Mural, and if we accept its indicated the Ships or Cargo Hold Produce the Eggs, then how does this happen?

For most LIFE it requires a Male/Female or certainly a Egg and Sperm..... it appears that the Deacon in Prometheus required these, but one had to be Mutated by the Black Goo.

David required Dr Shaws Egg Cells to achieve his Xenomorph... I had envisioned a few years ago if the Engineers Needed Females to be connected to their Ships to Produce their Horrors via use of their Egg Cells.

What if the Space Jockey is Female? 

Or if not... is the Pilot Male and not only is he the Pilot who is trapped in his Chair... but also the Provider of the Seed (Sperm) to allow for those Eggs to be Created?

I certainly think if HR Giger was alive then its his Twisted Head/Mind that Writers should be getting into as far as how to have explored the connection between that Bio-Mechanical Technology, the Space Jockey the Xenomorph/Eggs and WHY they would Seed Worlds.

Another hypotheses:

- the derelict crash landed on LV426, coincidentally on top of a cave full with xeno eggs, the pilot went down to asses the damage, entered the cave, looked upon an egg and bam! he gets facehugged. Regaining consciousness he tries to take off regardless of the damage and the chestburster only allows him to activate the warning beacon.

- the derelict was there to ship the eggs, found in the cave from LV426, elsewhere. There is a temporary failure of the blue mist generator than kept the eggs in stasis and one facehugger went out, looking for Mother.

- the derelict came to LV426 to off load the eggs in a safe storage facility. Something went wrong shortly before landing, a neutrino burst causes a blackout that disables the blue mist generator, awakens the pilot from cryosleep and the two meet.

- the derelict was hired by the xenomorph race to transfer the eggs to a hospitable planet where hosts were abundant as on their own planet all meat was already extinct. The pilot was warned about the heightened risk and how important the blue mist was for the safety of the trip. A neutrino burst, frequent in the area, disabled the blue mist generator, the pilot went down to check if the colonists were safe and sound. They were all still in stasis, except one.

I think Thoughts_Dreams you have a right to be concerned with a David Franchise, indeed he was a Ass-hole lol

The thing is a Good Ass-Hole is always good... David as a Villain is not bad... but it comes down to something you BRING up a lot.... Good Characters... so when you make a movie about a Villain who is being a Arse-Hole to people... then IF those people that David is being such towards and Characters who we cant connect or have any Empathy for then it all goes to £%&%!

If David killed off Daniels and Tennessee at the End of Alien Covenant or if they are killed by him Off-Screen like what happened to Dr Shaw would masses of people MOAN about their Loss?  Not Really.... so Better Characters could Elevate David as a Bad Guy but you need a Good Guy to become the Main Character instead and this Character is the ONE you have to route for... and who the Hell is that gonna be?

Maybe Walter... but then as Robots... its hard to get Fans to feel about a David vs Walter as the Main Characters... ok maybe a Aliens vs Predators is similar.... but i feel that making the Franchise now more about Androids.. and less about the Xenomorph and Space Jockey really is STEERING to FAR from what was ALIEN about Alien!

some of the Themes are interesting and i can see HOW it is that David fits... but i think these Themes are a bit BOLD for the ALIEN Franchise and are a Distraction for most Fans.

The ALIEN Franchise came across like 40% Ripley, 30% Xenomorph, 15% Other Characters, 10% Company Greed and 5% Mystery.

The Prequels seem to be looking like 40% David's Journey, 20% Xenomorph, 10% Engineers/Space Jockey, 10% Other Characters and 10% Mystery

For both Franchises i feel the Emphasis on David and Ripley is TOO MUCH!  The Franchise should-not and was not about Ripley and should also not be about David.

"try to make something different or maybe pick from those, I am not sure how that would be"

I think thats a Good Point.... looking at your whole last Reply, i think we can agree that when people look at the Alien Franchise, and they see Eggs, Queens and Ripley and YES the Queen/Eggs are very ALIEN the Alien Hive is Very Alien.

But once this has been done to DEATH.... its ok whats NEXT!

And so we are Familiar with Eggs... the First Time we saw the Eggs in ALIEN it was Epic... the whole Cargo Hold all that Technology/Architecture that was very ALIEN.

The other Aspect of ALIEN that was more Alien was the SHIP, and its Pilot...   Very Surreal, Very Alien and EPIC.

I am sure if you asked EVERY Alien Fan say at the time of Alien Resurrection, we are gonna make a Prequel about the Space Jockey Race/Technology and they knew AFTER the First Prequel the 2nd we would get the Movie about a Synthetic and the Space Jockey Race are quickly shown and shown more in context of a Ancient Human Settlement...

I am sure that as of 1998 this kind of idea would be TOTALLY against what seemed so ALIEN about the Derelict and its Pilot.

So yeah... the next movie thats 70% about a World Created by a Android that has NO Aesthetic connecting to the Derelict and HR Giger and that only say has 0-10% Xenomorph and 0-10% Engineer as far as the appearance in Prometheus would surely NOT be how Fans would have Expected a Prequel about the SPACE JOCKEY Race to have turned out.

Too much about David may fit the themes... but it would make the Franchise LESS ALIEN.

"Would we not, as Alien fans, want the Xenomorph to return as the primary threat and an overwhelming threat poised to spell the end of all we know while retaining the mystery and alien nature that attracted us to the creature in the first place?"

Certainly it would be interesting to make the Xemomorph a threat again, i think with Alien Resurrection, the AVP Movies and countless comics and Video Games the Xenomorph had been downgraded quite a lot as a threat!

I think its a HARD task now.... the Xenomorph has been reduced quite  a lot... but then so has the Space Jockey by Virtue of the Engineers and especially with Alien Covenant, so could we ever take them Serious as a Bad Ass Threat?

Its a bit of a mess at the Moment where the MAIN threat seems to be from letting AI get out of control and so David is NOW the Ultimate Threat of the Franchise... which many just cant buy into...

I think we need a New Threat that we can all maybe Buy Into.

I think the Xenomorph has came across as the Ultimate Hubris of Dont Mess about with Stuff that you should not do, and would not be too far from IF say Mankind Engineered a Hybrid Human/Ant that became a 50/50 Hybrid Race of 6ft Insectoids.... with Human Intelligence... oh boy would Mankind be in trouble then....

Thats not to DUMB down the Xenomorph as a Bug... but its to show that messing about to Engineer such a Organism as the Xenomorph was a really Dumb move for whoever created it.

I do think maybe in HINDSIGHT the Prequels should not have been done and just leave the whole Origins and Space Jockey as a Mystery.

When i go back to ALIEN and at that time, or even after ALIENS... I saw the Xenomorph as being Very Connected, even if we looked at it as a Bio-Weapon it was so very connected to the Derelict, in which case we had to ASK so what is the Purpose of the Space Jockey.... Slave to Spread the Xenomorph or Master of a Horrid Bio-Weapon.

Thats the TWO conclusions i had back 25+ years ago.

BigDave I honestly don't believe the crucifixion pose of the xenomorph in the Prometheus mural has anything to do with the sacrifice of Jesus or any other sacrifice of the xenomorph. It is there just for the beauty of it, at best it is a spoon fed indication that the Engineers from LV223 worshipped the xenomorph. What more powerful religious representation than the crucifixion can be for the viewers? The Engineers from LV223 had no idea about Christianity, only the producers of Prometheus thought that showing it in this way the mural would not pass unnoticed. 

I know David's drawings are not canon but they can hint to the direction intended for the prequels:

"Returning to the notion of integration and biomechanical concerns, I would posit that lessons learned here could and should be applied to the ultimate maturation of the Engineers’ direction if not their literal fate. Through the virus/Xenomorph as glorious synthesis and poetic culmination of the species. And an amusing biblical one at that.

What I get from the text above is the Engineers from LV223 were concerned about aquiring biomechanical traits through the virus/xenomorph and result was seen as a glorious synthesis and poetic culmination of both species. Somehow this got out of control and we had the outbreak of LV223, leading to the death of all the Engineers  save one, who clearly showed some biomechanical traits.

So if they did not create the xenomorph,  at least not the biomechanical one, they tried to synthesize both species (Engineers and xenomorphs) into something superior to both. Obviously they failed.

However, if David was able to create his own xenomorph using the virus on the flora/fauna from Engineers home world, and he tried until he achieved the xenomorph in its traditional form, we can speculate that he learned how to do it while flying the Juggernaut to planet 4, or later, in the citadel, having all the time to study the Engineers history/culture/science.

Great topic, upvoted AND featured so more fans can discover it.

Personally, I loved LIFE and EVENT HORIZON. Another one I've always loved was THE THING, both original and the reboot.

Also, I was unaware of some of the films listed here by some of you, surprisingly so thank you for that! I will be looking these up!

@ daliens,

You misunderstand my theory - the Xenomorphs remain a bio-weapon.

Currently, most fans see the Xenomorph as a bio-weapon created by a higher power (Engineer, Space Jockey or other), and used by said high power to enact their nefarious plans.

With my theory, the orchestrator, the instigator, the higher power is the Xenomorphs themselves. Rather than attack the human race and others, potentially losing thousands/millions of their own kind the Xenomorphs make themselves into the perfect weapon, to be coveted and utilized despite the evident dangers of such a deadly weapon. The result - the Xenomorph wins, its enemies destroy themselves and in the fallout, the Xenomorphs return to their former intelligent state.

The goal of my theory is to return the franchise back to the mystery and threat we experienced in Alien while accounting for all of the deviations the franchise has thrown at us with the sequels and prequels.

Would we not, as Alien fans, want the Xenomorph to return as the primary threat and an overwhelming threat poised to spell the end of all we know while retaining the mystery and alien nature that attracted us to the creature in the first place?

@ Hox,

Your idea suits the possibility I propose that the Space Jockey could have been one of the ancient Xenomorph pilots that were tasked with seeding the devolved eggs that would carry on their race.

Having adopted biomechanical technology this ancient race seals their doom and their extinction, but uses said technology to create a nano-sized viral AI substance - the black goo that will imprint onto any organism a devolved version of the genetic template of their species, but also holds records of all of their culture, discoveries and history - the intention being that should their "children" be allowed to flourish they will in time unlock the secret to accessing said information and regain their consciousness and intelligence.

The eggs would be the purest form of these devolved children, transported throughout the galaxy/universe by the bizarre sexual/mental/emotional bond of the last remnants of the former members of this race; foster parents in the male pilot and the female vessel.

On LV-426, like many other worlds and moons the mother-vessel, the juggernaut landed and, as Hox suggests augments a cave with biomechanical growths, or allows such a biomechanical growth to mature, a growth which uses the nano-sized viral AI substance to produce thousands of eggs.

Unfortunately for the Space Jockey pilot before he and his vessel/mate can seed another cache of eggs on another world/moon the pilot falls victim to one of his children.

Intruder Within- sounds perfect for the MST3K treatment!

Now here's something that is complete and utter shite. It is to Alien, what The Room is to romantic drama. It is so bad that it crosses the line in the sand between unwatchable and, is it really that bad? It is entertainment for all the wrong reasons. Ridley Scott wanted Alien to surpass B-movie effects, whereas this movie aspires to becoming a B-movie. This really is Alien on an incredibly tight budget with a whip round from those hoping it might never see the light of day. Worth a watch just to know that someone actually made this. Repeat viewings tend to occur after the effects of the initial trauma have worn off

hox

Good thoughts! Pryramids from Prometheus can be some dead species. In StarBeast Nostromo crew hiding from the sandstorm behind a rock. After storm the rock actually turned out to be a skeleton of giant alien. I think - this another point of Prometheus from StarBeast.

Star Childrens will never rebel against David, if he never says to them: Bring me the tea.

BD:

Yeah they could have improved Shaw, if they would have written her a bit more like she was in The Crossing. To me it was difficult since I was so disappointed with her in Prometheus but yeah it could have worked.

I think that they can make David a more sympathetic character (more like in Prometheus) but I don’t want the movie to be about him even if they write him in a more sympathetic way. I am in it for the human journey but it could work.

Yeah David might be a symbol of blame for some when they are disappointed with other things but not to me. I am disappointed that they chose to focus on David when to me there are other things that are more interesting and also that he is the creator of the Xeno, at least for now. From a theme point of view it works but from a story point of view it is really a disappointment. You could have David like he was in AC and I would forgive that if the humans were well-written but they were not. There was no balance

Well I am more interested in the Xeno and the SJ compared to David, he is not that important compared to them at least that is how I look at it. My preferred way when it comes to what is important to the franchise. Some people are interested in it but I am not.

Honestly I am not interested in another movie about David, I am burned out about that. Sure he can be a part of it but not like he was in Covenant when he was the movie so to speak (OK not really but you understand). Some people are interested in the David part so there has got to be something for them also but he should be given a reduced role.

“I feel we are better of arriving at ORIGAE-6 in some After-math or that David is killed off in the First Act.”

If that is the alternative to have a two-hour movie about David then I take it. It kind of depends how they make the movie in general. The could write him better and still reduce his role compared to AC and Prometheus.

“the Part other Humans Arrive and the £"%£ hits the FAN and then the Engineers Turn up...”

That seems interesting to me. I they make some of the humans work as characters and if they make the Engineers make sense and the Xeno being a result of the Engineers and just be a part of it then I am in. Sure the monsters can look interesting but it has never been about them to me at least.

“But we just Bypassed that 2 hour CROSSING movie if you would... i feel maybe we need to do the same with Davids Kind of World...”

Yeah but if that is what is needed for me to enjoy the movie then sure make it like that. This is not to say that you can’t have philosophical questions in it (Alien had that) but it should be about the humans first and the androids as a part of that. They have got the priority wrong this far but if the Engineers show up at Davids world, David is killed sure. After that you have the humans and the Engineers on David’s world and his monsters that are there to F both groups up and still show us that David is just a middle-man in the creation of the Xeno then yeah it could work.

How about the Juggernaut settles on LV426 and – by the magic of alien technology – creates a silo underneath, for whatever reason? This, folks, would be biomechanical engineering at its finest. I'd love to see how the Juggernauts are created/born and how they sneakily excavate millions of tons of rock to produce subterranean Cathedrals of Death...

In a similar vein, imagine if the Engineers plopped a little turnip-sized pyramid on the ground and it grew into the magnificent structures we see in Prometheus. They are the gardeners of the cosmos, after all.

BD: Yeah maybe a sort of aftermath to what he has created would be better because at least he would not be as dominating in this movie. Eventually we could have like five to ten minutes of him in the movie for those that would like to see him have a bigger role than I would and not be totally reduced.

If the colonists and Oragae-6 could be used in a smart way then yeah why not. Those at the Nostromo discovered a new world so it fits but it has got to be somewhat new to what we have had this far. At the same time I am not afraid that they will not make the surroundings/the planet bad because they have succeeded with that this far but they got to go back and see how the surroundings of the other movies have been and try to make something different or maybe pick from those, I am not sure how that would be.

One thing that I can honestly say in favor if the prequels or a somewhat favor of them is that the ideas are not bad but the execution has been so and so. I am not a huge fan of the idea of Alien five, at least not if they retcon Alien 3 but at the same time I can sort of understand the disappointments that make people support such a project. Sure I am not a huge fan of the prequels although there are things that are interesting but I also think that an Alien 5 would be a bad idea as long as they retcon Alien 3.

Creation, Rebellion and Retribution could be something, I would like to see the Engineers play a role in this in some way. I would like to see something where they have seeded different worlds and how that would play into the story and be if only loosely connected to the SJ if they would risk to mess up the SJ-connection. At the same time I would like something about a nasty company (not necessarily WY) because I like that angle of it. This would have to be something different to WY but still have things in common in how they screw over people.

About David and his creations then yeah maybe but keep him in the background sort of like when he monitored the Xeno on the ship, something like that would be fine by me or how they used Jigsaw in the first Saw-movie. You did not see as lot of him but he was very important to the story although he can be in it like some (like maybe 10) minutes or so based on 2 hours. You mention his Xenomorphs (David’s), sure but make sure to have it as recreations and not that he is the originator because that is lame.
The Engineers should have a role, at least bigger than David so I would like them to be featured in it also. I really like the idea of the Engineers and I feel that they should have bigger screen-time than David and what he has done. Maybe they get to the planet to get rid of David but they get attacked by monsters and they are still mad at humanity so you get humans trapped between Xenos and Engineers that are highly pissed off but you defiantly got to get it better than how they handled the AVP’s. This could be better if they tried to make interesting human characters and also try to get the Engineers right so they would be a threat to the Xenos too. Making a movie like this would not be impossible but they got to struggle to get it right, I would like to see it. You get two old things (the Xenos and struggling humans ) plus something new or at least that we have not seen much of (the Engineers), it could work.

I will now respond to some of your response to Biodegradable.

Yes, I am not totally against having David involved but it is too much about him. Compare this to weak humans characters and too much screen-time to David that is by now totally evil and you get a movie which to me at least is not interesting. Who-ever decided to make David into what he was in Covenant made a bad decision because he was too evil compared to Prometheus where he was better done the way that I look at it. At the same time I am not 100% against the idea to let the androids get more screen-time compared to 1-3 but it is also about their role compared to the rest. Remember that Ash and Bishop had their time but they were better written and the humans were better written too.

“ we also see that most of the things Fans could have looked forwards to had been KILLED off by the Actions of this Psychotic Synthetic.”

Yes, why did they get rid of the Engineers (those that made the movie or those that decided about that)? They were interesting in themselves but they got totally killed just some minutes into the movie. This could be because of some miscalculation of the studio, someone made that decision anyways.

As far as Alien movies are concerned if we by Alien mean the Xeno then sure make something else, I am not against that I even accepted most of the new monsters in Prometheus except for Zombie Fifield but that was not because of the actor I just think that the idea was dumb and the way that the scene was in the movie. I would like P to be more Xeno-ish but that was far from the biggest problem that I have with that movie.

Digging deeper into the SJ world and the company could be interesting if it is getting made well but make sure to make it known that t is in the Alien-world without being a Xeno-movie. There are more things in the Alien-world than Xenos and Ripley, something that I know that you have mentioned and that I agree with. Something that I don’t want is Ripley or Ripley-ties (aunts, uncle, kids, what ever). A franchise like this should not be about a person, it is called Alien not Ripley. I think that we can agree that Ripley has had her time and I am also not that interested to see another queen but having something stranger (look at what Giger did, maybe there could be some inspiration there?).

Biodegradable:

Obsessive? I am not very happy that they put such a focus on David at the cost of the rest. One of the problems is that there are not many to support but if they would have had some characters to root for then I would write in favor of them (for example “I like this character because of X Y Z”) but there were almost none. David was tolerable in Covenant in the way that think that it was interesting to see the differences between Walter and David but David was too much of an asshole there for me to like him or sympathize with him but he was somewhat interesting. Sure I do not like what the prequels have turned into but it is not like I think about it all the day (about your comment about being obsessive).

I am a fan of the franchise and therefore I do not want more half good and half crap kind of movies - I want them to be good. When someone writes something that I disagree with I tend to answer because that is how I am as a person. It might get repetitive since I do not always remember what I have written in every post that I write so there it is. This is important to keep in mind: I attack the opinion, not the person.

“Yet here you are, kicking BigDave into fetal position over and over."

I say no to ideas that I don’t like but if there are those that I agree with I would say sure. Even though I disagree with things in general there might be parts of what someone say that I agree with. This is not a personal attack on anyone and if it comes across like this then it was never my intention. By the way, I also make sure to say when there are things that I agree with just to not came off as an asshole or extremely negative.

“And it is not like there are many of those to choose from and dismiss this, that or the other.”

I think that we need to see if there are other ideas that we can take into consideration (is that the way to put it?). If something doesn’t work then we have to look for something else, that is my opinion. Some of BD’s opinions are alright while there are other things that I disagree with but that also goes for friends, co-workers, etcetera.

“Have you put out any possible scenario for future follow-up of your own in any considerable details?"

I want more about the black goo, and the Engineers. I can not put this into detail or develop it like maybe some other persons here but I can think about things in general that I want to see and the same goes for things that I say not to.

The last one is alright but the first looks too big and fat. When we look at the Xenos they have always been slender so they move without problems and without making sounds. When I look at the gorilla Xeno I really can’t see how it could move without making noises so you could hear it (in my head I hear something like “ka-boom, ka-boom” when I imagine it moving). It is interesting to see different kinds of Xenos but that doesn’t mean that all of them work.

I hope that more people reply to this because it is interesting to see what kind of things that people like or dislike about this franchise.

I also agree with Lone on this one, no Blomkamp Alien 5 especially if they make it like Alien 3 never happened. No more Ripley, and queens, thank you very much.

Some people want Amanda, but I think that we need to move away from the Ripley-ties, she was great in Alien 1-3 but we need to make good characters that are not tied to her, I think that can be done.

I like the idea that David did his own version but that he is not the original creator.

As far as the Quiet Eye is concerned I really like how Shaw is portrayed there, she is more likable. I wish that they could have included his comments about LV-426.

“The beacon, or warning signal, from the Derelict on LV-426 is already there long before the Prometheus expedition!”

If that is the case I wish that they should have made that clear in Prometheus *sigh*.

The Xeno mural was interesting, it is just too bad that they did not give it the time that was needed.

Yup you should not have to look at extra material to understand what they are trying to say. If that is needed then they have failed with the movie. Ambiguity can be good but I am not sure how many feel like going through a lot of extra material, they should explain that well enough in the movie but that doesn't mean that it should be obvious. Not interested in another Scott movie if they do not drastically change from the way that it is now.

David as the SJ is ridiculous to me, just the difference in size is an issue. Maybe the Engineers are not perfect as it but it is better to have one of them as that than David.

It is good that they kept a lot of it in the dark. I can understand sort of how you would feel when there are nasty things around you that you do not see. We just saw the monster once I think? Having it like this made my imagination going because it could mean that they could be anywhere which makes it a lot scarier.

"I see the prequels and the other movies as part of the same Alien Universe but representing 2 separate timelines although still affecting each other"

This was the intention but in Hindsight, not having enough Clues to the Origins and not having enough Xemomorph like Action, had in part led to them making Prometheus Sequel something to connect to ALIEN.. so it appears we are on Direct Prequel Territory here... where before David set foot on Planet 4 there was NO Traditional Xenomorph.

"The reason is that we already have the whole xenomorph lifecycle depicted on a wall in the facility on LV-223, as well as long since dead engineers with holes in their chests."

I think it depends what you use to form a basis for ideas, if we look at the Reason for those Engineer Corpses, they seem to had been produced for the Earlier Alien Engineers Plot.  Which in a Nutshell seems to imply the Engineers came into contact with some Organism they did-not create, and they Engineered various forms of Xenomorph from this using their Scarab/Goo Technology, thus the Xenomorph was a Engineered Bio-Weapon.

The Mural in Prometheus apparently was just a Easter Egg and Nod towards HR Giger, but others in Production had stated the Mural Depicts the Deacon!  To me the Mural shows us the Xeno/Deacon looking Organism is the Achieved Result of Various Experiments that eventually lead to this Organism, which the Engineers then Proceeded to then Sacrifice to obtain this Perfected DNA so they can then EVOLVE life to use its DNA instead of their own Engineer DNA.

This fits more in line with Alien Engineers too...  also if we look at the Sacrificial Bowl that was there instead of the Green Crystal, and then look how the Scarabs worked in Alien Engineers and apply this to the Goo, then again it adds up to the Deacon being Sacrificed to make the Goo Variant in those Urns...

At its basis it was simple....  the ANSWER was there all along with Spaights Scarabs.   Some Interpret the Mural as Worship as in like how some Worship Jesus Christ, some even speculate that Deacon was Space Jesus... hey its a kind of Resurrection after all lol

But if we look at WHY do Christian Faiths worship Jesus on the Cross, this is because it represents the Eternal Life that is Granted to those who Worship and Follow Christ due to the SACRIFICE he made to Save us...

Again if we look at the Earlier Prometheus Drafts, then the Sacrificing Engineer takes a Cruciform Pose just as he is consumed.... so again Cruciform Pose = Sacrifice.

So by Virtue of the ALTAR having the Sacrificial Bowl, in front of the Cruciform Mural... i think it shows us the Deacon/Xeno was Sacrificed (with Sacrificial Goo) to create the stuff in the Urns.

BUT why replace the Cup then?

SCALE %£^$ up... our Engineers were intended to be 12-15ft tall.

Regarding the HOLES... it seems the Props had began work, while Prometheus was being finished as far as Shooting Script.

They was intended to show both Chest Busters and Wounds by Xenomorph related Organisms from Alien Engineers.

The Prometheus Plot was instead a Black Goo Pathogen, which we saw was like a Ebola Outbreak, or so Dr Shaw assumed, we saw the Effects of Ingestion as being a Engineer becomes consumed/breaks down (this was Sacrificial Goo though)... we can wonder what would have became of Holloway if he was NOT Torched!

What we do see is the Engineer who has his head cut off by the Door, his SUIT is HOLLOW... the Helmet of the Suit however contains a Engineer Head, in a good state of Presevration that once its Re-activated it Mutates (Cells) and Explodes.

IF the Black Goo Pathogen infected Engineers, who then go through a Violent Reaction where they would in effect EXPLODE and if you imagine the Sacrificial Engineers Reaction being contained within a Space Suit... then we could assume it would EXPLODE from the Pressure just as a Bottle of Cola would if you put a Mint/Mento inside... the Violent Chemical Reaction would look for the Weakest Point to EXPLODE from the Bottle.

Its my assumption this explains a majority of those Holes in the Engineers Suits...   They was running to that ROOM because inside, somehow the effects of the Black Goo are HALTED...

Which is WHY the Urns remained fine, until the Humans Contaminated the Room.

Hey Decs, I was going to add The Mist, but forgot!

It was genuinely scary, the ending was very sad & disturbing!

chli this should be the proper ending, unless somebody wants David living happily everafter.

He simply cannot be the Space Jockey.

I think there are some Interesting ideas... a thing to remember is there have been a lot of changes regarding the Role/Origins of the Eggs from Inception (Starbeast) to where we are now (Alien Covenant).

I think many fans had different ideas about what the Origins should be and not everyone is pleased by the Prequels, sometimes maybe its wishful thinking to alter the route that seems implied.. and i think most would agree the David Creates the Xenomorph route is not the way to go!

The Ambiguity of the Movies, with regards to Clues/Easter Eggs that are unexplained... the flaws in Aesthetic and Scale of the Ships and Space Jockey/Engineers do leave it open to speculate differences.

So indeed the HUGE oversight that is the Egg Silo, is something that some fans just cant accept as part of the ship regardless of what is told..  because what is shown DEFIES what we are expected to believe.

As Gavin pointed out with the Bombardment Scene, when looking at the Juggernaught in Alien Covenant and the Schematics in Prometheus, its easy to see that the Cargo Holds  on these ships are like 3X less Tall, and Vastly Smaller in terms of Width/Depth when we look at the Egg Chamber in ALIEN... so these Egg Silos CANT fit on the underside of the Juggernaught, and when working the Size of the Juggernaught to a Human and then Derelict then the Juggernauts are LARGER than the Derelict.

This arises because indeed the Silo was supposed to be separate to the Ship.... so what we have to do is try and think about what was Ridley Scott and the Alien Production thinking about when Producing those sets... and WHAT would happen if Ridley Scott got more of a Budget and Time to showcase the Ship Separate..

What would have been the Space Jockey Fate?, and were would the Derelict had been in relation to where the Egg Silo was located?

So indeed the Separate Egg Storage Facility is open to debate, and maybe something that could be introduced... the Problem with David being the Creator is HOW would such a Egg Silo be introduced?   If we go for a Separate Facility?

There is just by Chance a Storage Facility on LV-426 that David then thinks "that would be perfect to store my Eggs on" and then its HOW the Space Jockey Ended up on top of this Egg Silo with the Derelict!

If we ASSUME and Accept that the Egg Silo is separate and underground, then on ONE Hand it makes it more Plausible that the Egg Chamber could be there after the Destruction of Hadley's Hope. While on the OTHER Hand it opens it up to speculate HOW Large such a Underground Facility is, and how many Entrances, or HOW MANY of these Underground Facilities are there?

The other things accepting a Separate Egg Silo would open up is...  

1) This Storage Facility is where Engineers take there Finalized Results/Eggs from their Experiments for Storage, away from LV-223.

2) The Engineers used these Eggs from LV-426 to then set up a place to Experiment on them on LV-223

My interpretation is different and more in line with what i feel the Prequels intended and had shown..

But everyone can have a different interpretation to the Mural and Fresco from Prometheus.  They are all connected and so its open due to the Ambiguity as in what ORDER is everything placed.

I think a thing to consider with the Prequels which includes the Unused Drafts, is they appear to be running with the Egg Cargo Holds on the Ships Plot... despite the Drastic Size Difference...  Which we are supposed to accept as a Oversight, such as the Space Jockey being nearly Twice the Size of our Engineers.

daliens

Exactly! I hope the ending of an AC2-movie would be with a dying and repenting David who finally sees his errors and his folly. The timeline with David (and his xeno-variant) comes to an end.

In a flashback scene (about 2000 years prior) we see an engineer in a pilot chair, despite chest pain, setting a warning beacon. The camera then zooming in on a hole in the ground, down through a tunnel and into a cave filled with thousands of eggs.

The timeline of LV-426 can then continue - Nostromo, Hadley's Hope etc . . .

dk! I know it’s kinda blasphemous to say that, especially in an “Alien” forum, but yeah, for some weird reason I have never watched it in its entirety. Wanna know some more blasphemous things I’ve done? For some reason I have yet to see other Carpenter classics but somehow I’ve seen their sequels, prequels or reboots… I haven’t seen “The Thing” 1982 but I saw “The Thing” 2011 (I have a soft spot for Mary Elizabeth Winstead), I haven’t seen “Halloween” 1978 (again, blasphemy, I know… I’ve seen chunks of it, but not the whole film) but I saw “Halloween H20” (it was EVERYWHERE in the nineties), I haven’t seen “Escape From New York” but I saw “Escape From L.A.”… Please don’t kick me out of this forum!   D:

The case with “The Thing” 1982 is really weird because when I was a kid they used to broadcast “Alien” and “Aliens” all the time on the tv channels I used to watch here in my country and those are movies from the same time period as “The Thing” but I don’t remember them airing “The Thing” that much for some reason or I surely would have seen it and enjoyed it… Later on when I was an adult sometimes I would catch it when I was channel surfing, and by then I already knew of its classic status and I always said to myself “Nah I have to watch this movie from the beginning and pay close attention to it, it deserves it” so I kept postponing my viewing of it and well… That was that lol. Now that I relate this shameful story I’m gonna make a promise to myself to finally watch it this year!

Lone, you know, it’s funny that you mentioned “The Last Days on Mars” because I saw that movie and I thought about putting it on the list because of its obvious “Alien” vibes but I decided against it because I didn’t really liked it… It wasn’t a terrible movie but I thought based on the trailer that it was gonna be way better and more interesting. There are other movies besides that one that I thought off that have very obvious “Alien” vibes that I didn’t mention because I don’t think they’re particularly good either, movies like “The Relic”, “Red Planet” and “Apollo 18” among others.

Daliens, cool! Is a really short story though, if you read it tell me what you think!

Oh and another one for my list, this one isn’t set in space but it definitely has “Alien” vibes and I think it’s a great movie:

dk all the money will go to the North Bergen Theater and Arts Foundation.

In case there will be a film crew will be pro bono I think. I hope Ridley Scott will send a film crew, but what is Fox doing here, apart from advertising the event as we do? I did not see any engaging statement from their side other than how happy they are for the encore.

Let's still hope for more involvement and a film crew, so Fox, if you are reading this, you have the duty to record the event for the history. Or you have the right to remain silent.

daliens I didn't think they would be able to pull it together to perform the play on Alien Day- that is fantastic. Pricey tickets must mean some good Scott Free support (and hopefully a film crew).

This poster might be the last one, so don't forget to say thanks to Mr. Dane Hallett for his generosity.