Comments (Page 473)

@ BigDave

Perfection 

One of the reasons your hierarchy of creation and the sub creative David narrative sits on shaky ground is because the Xenomorph is a MISTAKE and only a WEAPON. In a sense we are back to the question of not having a coherent mythos but :-

1) The Alien Pathogen is an error which wrecked havoc on LV 223. The Engineers sub creative aspirations were a disaster.

2) The Xenomorph created out of the Alien Pathogen is a WEAPON not a sub created species. Its invasive parasitical characteristics mean it is a fake which affected the Engineers on LV 233 and Paradise. It cannot exist as a species with its own creative output like the Engineers of Paradise or Mankind which procreate naturally and were able to achieve this state of grace because of the catalyser gifted by the sacrificial acolyte from the teardrop ship.

David the madman who loves his creation would much more likely try and escape from the catastrophe of Origae 6 in a Juggernaut with some grand scheme but whom then is busted by his own creation. The Engineers are seeders of benign outcomes some of whom LV 223 began to experiment. To re introduce the Engineers as "aggressive f....." with Weyland Yutani and their delusional schemes on the way feels like no one is on the side of right. It would seem to make sense from a dramatic point of view for us to want the Engineers to succeed W-Y fail and David get some common sense and redemption. 

Here lol.Couldn't resist the headline 

I relly hope that in future Alien movies we will see Original Xenomorph Hive will go into war with David's Xenomorphs. I support this idea, that David just re-created Xenomorph. Their DNA, whatever they are created by Engineers or not, being used in biological weapon.

My wishes for Yautja waping out USCSS Covenant and leaving us with Original Xenomorphs will never come to life :D

Original Derelict ship could simply carring Eggs as a fuel for Black Goo, maybe even heading to LV-223. As we remember, Original Xenomorph from Alien movie, didn't exactly kill his victims, but placing them in cacoon for future reproduction. While David's Xenomorph kill on sight, without any attempt to create Hive.

Also, i really hope for David to face same fate as Arnaud Eisenberg.

@BigDave

"I can give details of what Ridley Scotts Space Jockey explanation was if any one wants it?"

I am interested in that.  Do you have a link to the info or something?

@Dark Nebula

WOW!  I am very impressed with that photoshopped image you create.  It is just fantastic!  Freakin' hilarious. 

A crew has always had a synthetic and it seems it would be more advanced than David. There is no reason why it couldn't be a female. 

It would be an interesting idea if the next film delves more into AI and David's story arch. However, it would be too much if the next one is to explore the Engineers.

Like you said, this would be too much like shoehorning AI into the Alien concept. Also, the idea of that robotic queen risks becoming too similar to the main character of the movie "Species". I believe the next film needs to delve deeper into the mythology of the engineers and their relationship with the xenomorph race.

Nice topic. I think when Engineers arrive at Planet 4, they will first find Walter's destroyed body in the hall of heads (God knows what David did to him) and take him for study, they will also find David's lab and a room with ovomorphs. From all this they will know humans were here, the juggernaut David and Shaw used to escape from LV-223 crashed far from the engineer city so the distress beacon Shaw sent might attract them and using holographic recording they will find out it was David who was responsible for genocide.

I would certainly think Fassbender had signed some kind of Contract, this reduces the Potential Pay Hike that Miss Weaver kept having to be paid.  I think Rappace was also signed to a contract to be willing to appear in a sequel which i think its why she seemed disappointed in her role.

Looking at Walter/David....  I think its likely they have to appear WHOLE for these reasons.

*I cant see Fassbender playing a One Handed Robot for the Next movie, its logical a Ship with One Synthetic (when not a Secret one like ASH) would have Spare Parts, and so i think its likely David uses these at least to repair his hand, and who knows if he builds a New Body and Transfers his SOUL to it.  This touches up on the AI aspect and it also allows David to charade around as Walter, Fooling the other Colonist and allowing him to come up with some Valid excuse why the other Crew Died etc. While also gaining Full Control of MUTHUR

*I would safely Assume the Engineers do-not turn up shortly after David leaves as surely they could intercept him and destroy the Covenant with Ease... I assume they arrive a long time latter, well certainly allowing David to arrive at Origae-6 and Set up a Colony...   So we have to wonder can the Engineers Salvage anything from the Covenant Lander?  I doubt it, can they discover information from the crashed Juggernaught.. but this would lead them only to it coming from LV-223 not that David is off to Origae-6.

So unless David had time to write the Engineers a Invitation to Origae-6, i can only assume the Engineers get this information from Walter.

*Reading into RS comments, David is off to Origae-6 where a Colony may well be set up, and there are 3-4 incoming Parties which the Engineers are ONE the Company at some point would receive Davids Messages and so we can Safely Assume One Ship would be from the Weyland Yutani Company, the other Engineers and this leaves 1-2 other Parties... if this is again a Human Ship we have to wonder do these Ships have SYNTHETICS? If so would they be continuations of the David/Walter Lineage 

I would think it would be interesting to see a FEMALE SYNTHETIC thats a Synthetic Construct like Elden from Fire and Stone, and have her become infected to give us a Bio-Mechanical Queen.

I think what i was meaning is that we have the whole TALE of Creation, Sub-Creation maybe each level seeking Perfection, and so what i meant was if these Engineers Saw Davids Creation and Viewed this as NEAR Perfection and he had Successfully Evolved what they had worked on, maybe they would be intrigued in Davids Creation and wish to use it or Evolve it themselves... which would lead to their Loss as a Ultimate Hubris.

Indeed its convoluted a little, and i think Prometheus raised some MASSIVE Questions to why no Engineers returned to LV-223  hopefully the next few movies will pass some LIGHT on what LV-223 was for, and if the Engineered abandoned these ways and why.

For the same reason that if David really does not want Mankind to get any new Fresh Start, then for him taking a Engineers Ship and Black Goo to Earth would be the easiest way to deal with that...

I think at some point if Davids Creations are those Eggs on the Derelict, then they have to Shoe-horn in a reason why/how a ENGINEER Ship ends up so close to LV-223 to end up on LV-426.

There has to be some reason WHY a Engineer would end up with Davids Creation, and then end up on the door step to LV-223, instead of going some other place.  And the ONLY logical conclusion i have is that LV-223 was a place the Engineers was experimenting on and perfecting their Bio-Weapon, if Davids Creations are deemed Perfect why head towards that System, surely its not the direct path on the way to Earth or any other place apart from LV-223.

The other Option is Engineers Turn up, get done in by Davids Creation, he Hijacks a Engineer ship and proceeds to LV-223 to improve or multiply his Creation, i think that a ENGINEER Ship, DAVIDS Creation and LV-223 have to be the Biggest FINAL pieces to the Puzzle... which could get a bit convoluted.

PS once again the CAPS are not meant to be shouting, just Highlighting some Key Elements ;)

The Banishing of the Wolf, could relate to the Xenomorph (Black Goo) it could also mean Creation so Mankind could have been the Engineers Wolf, because its a bit ambiguous.

I would assume however it is regarding the Black Goo and what ever Experiments that lead to that Black Goo, and so this is maybe like the COVENANT between GOD and Mankind, when he vowed he would never Flood the World again.

Years ago when discussing why the Engineers never returned i did wonder if it was just as with GOD and the Great Flood, in that the Engineers decided to abandon the Punishment intended and to never attempt this again and turn their backs on Mankind... Simply Abandon us to our own Destruction, thinking without the Engineers we would never Evolve past how we was thousands of years ago.

So they made a Covenant to Abandon the LV-223 Bio-Weapons Objective, but then we cant be 100% sure because we dont yet have any 100% reason for why the Engineers would welcome back a Juggernaught ship if it was linked purely to Destruction their race had turned their backs on.

I like the style of writing you used ;)

Regarding the Survivors it will be interesting how they are dealt with because the Ending of Alien Covenant and where it looks like the Plot will go next, does not bold well for Daniels and Tennessee

I think the problems here are the Alien Franchise has a rather limited Fanbase compared to many other flicks, the majority of fans would be Alien Fans, the General Public would maybe just have bad memories of the AVP Movies and also Totally not get Prometheus.

I think as a movie Alien Covenant attempted to please those who liked Prometheus, those who liked Alien and those who liked Aliens  but the movie simply could not deliver enough to please all of them, it only provided a little to each...

Also it appeared again the Characters mainly are only used to drive the Plot and no real Depth was invested once they David had Turned up, prior to that it worked well.  There was some really poor Marketing that built peoples hopes up too much, i also think the Plot well execution again was not great and the Movie Certainly Suffered from needing a extra 30 mins and $30M Budget

The first and last images are very fitting to the Franchise

Thanks for the Share, some nice work there

@Spaced-Out, exactly! They will always have to chase that mgic, while forging a new, unique path. I think there is a lot of potential (although almost every movie ever has had and will have potential haha) for something absolutely outstanding in Scott's last attempt (or last couple) movies in the Alien universe. 

Patrice Garcia:

https://www.this-is-cool.co.uk/the-sci-fi-concept-art-of-patrice-garcia/

Patrice Garcia:

(Alpha Engineers?)

https://www.this-is-cool.co.uk/the-sci-fi-concept-art-of-patrice-garcia/

Mark Molnar:

https://www.this-is-cool.co.uk/mark-molnar-concept-artist-illustrator/

Mark Molnar:

https://www.this-is-cool.co.uk/mark-molnar-concept-artist-illustrator/

The spider-head from The Thing:

These dead creatures/fossilized bodies are similar to the dead Engineers (in the dome corridors) in Prometheus:

These are similar to the mural creature (the beaked one) in Prometheus:

These two creatures next to the girl resemble xenomorphs, I think:

dk - 'Fifth image looks like an image of fossilized eggs and Engineers.' - Totally true.

Dark Nebula - You're welcome. A big budget, probably. But the box office number would be big as well, no doubt.

That would indeed be awesome and jaw-dropping, I only wonder how big the budget would be required for all that.

Thanks for sharing Ati.

joylitt

As long as we don't reduce the alien universe to the xenomorph and recently the engineers only, I am positive Ridley Scott will be faithful. He loves this alien universe and tries to explore it further. Aliens are there and can strike when we less expect. Disney will give us aliens, no doubt abut that.

I just want Ridley to continue what he started. 

red0guy

She has to play with Fassbender. Two Fassbenders actually. But I feel nothing from Waterston. No birds, no animals, nothing.

daliens I understand. These are just opinions, and yours is very valid and heartfelt. I personally hope the new installment will be more faithful in spirit to the Alien universe.

joylitt

That Imdb grateful letters do not mean anything more that a personal taste or opinion, like mine below:

I'm grateful for Alien Covenant because it is more than a sci fi shot in space, more than an alien movie. Thank you Ridley Scott and John Logan and all the cast and crew for daring to give us the lonely perfection of an android dreams. Do not wait too long until the next one, and please ignore us, the ungrateful fans, and start shooting the next one as soon as possible. 

(oops- I made a little mistake above. For haters and purists, I will chalk it up to traditional Alien script/story inconsistencies and therefore remaining authentic!:)

daliens

Well the whole idea was that Foxbender to be the counter to FoxBender. So please have courage and make the next one an all FoxBender flick, to save money of course.

And by the way, who was Waterston in Logan Lucky, the former wife or the other one?

Maybe in Prometheus they were requested to perform as dumb,  whiny or pompous, nevertheless Rapace shone in that film. She was a better match for Fassbender. Waterston was from another movie, she did not show any fierce note even when fighting the xeno (and she killed two of them). I always watch those scenes in disbelief. And I doubt Ridley Scott asked her to play whinny, she was just not suitable for the role. She made Daniels forgetable. I mean people never get infuriated if Daniels will not appear in the next film. Her Daniels cannot bring people to the theaters.

And this was a big issue with Covenant. The film was not balanced. There was no counterpart for Fassbender.  Waterston played well but was not suitable for the role. Like I said previously all I can feel about that Daniels is what Oram told her: OK Danny, I'll put it in the log. You are dismissed. 

The problem is the directing. These actors and actresses were specifically instructed to perform either as dumb, whiny or pompous. As opposed to the first three Alien installments, both in Prometheus and Covenant there is a deliberate intention of not making the performances feel authentic. They are supposed to be these B-movie stereotypes. I have no idea why Ridley Scott would like to perpetuate these antics and it is something he needs to drop as soon as possible. I long so much to see a well grounded, gritty, relatable, real character in the franchise for a change.

I actually thought Waterson did an outstanding job. She wasn't allowed to shine. I am coming at this from never seeing her in another movie, so AC is my baseline with her. That said, Waterson couldn't possibly act wishy washy enough to play Shaw.

David, flanked by the two guards, resumes his destination leading up to defragmentation. He wonders what this might be. Observing the seemingly prehistoric aesthetics, he knows the appearance is likely deceptive and that the very term "defagmentation" referred to a seemingly more techninologically advanced age than the one he was observing. Things were not adding up. It did not compute...

He realizes his presence offends Remek and that Remek must know of his identity or at least that he is not like Shaw.

David recalls his present programming and remembers that he should assimilate human behavior so as to facilitate more comfortable interactions among humans. He realizes his behavior and actions may have been somewhat "stiff" or "mechanical" to Remek. He wonders why Dr Shaw gave him back the hard drive, and thinking defragmentation likely meant his cease to exist, he decided that he should upload the drive's contents. He knew that he would eventually cease to exist, but he wasn't stupid.

David stopped walking. He turned his head toward the glaring light light above, eyes closed, and mouth open. The guards looked and stepped back at David's head twitches and spasms.

David then sneezed, a phenomenon known to humans sometimes gazing at bright full spectrum lighting. "Ah- Choo"! On "Choo", David covered his nose and mouth as most humans would do, and put the flash drive into his mouth and swallowed it.

David is knocked to the ground by a guard who motions to continue the brutality.

The other guard halts him and reminds him that Artificer has the final decision on David's fate.

"Get up, you abomination. Explain your actions."

The other guard states, " He has not been cleared." This statement alarms David. He covers his mouth and coughs profusely sppitting the hard drive back into his hand.

David replies "It is common for bright light to stimulate the need to sneeze. My coughing (cough) is a recovery action within my lungs in response tom your blunt force trauma."

"Kneel down, cross your legs and clasp your hands behind your head, Monstrosity!"

David complies. Hands clasped behind his head, he inserts the flash drive into a port at the base of his positronic skull. David collapses onto his back while the flash drive blinks with a green light. The flash drive uploads. Upon completion, the drive itself reformats rendering it blank.

A guard kicks David, rolls him over, sees the blank flash drive on the ground and picks it up.

"What is this, you demon?"

David comes to and quickly assess the situation. In a couple of seconds, he puts the events together between his initial scrub and the now.

He stands up, straightens his shirt, smiles and says, "Oh, that."

Maybe the character of Daniels was unrelatable, but casting Waterston as Daniels was worst. She was a key character but she could not make the viewer care for her fate. I don't mean Waterston can't act, she was just not right for the role. And it is not the first time Ridley Scott had the wrong choice for an actor/actress.

Just imagine Waterston as Elizabeth Shaw in Prometheus if you can.

red0guy For this franchise, I will sit and wait. I enjoyed the engagement on the forum leading up to both movies way more than the movies themselves.

dk

If so, I'll tell that this year I was surprised by the robot porn in Covenant and for the first time a movie making me hate the geek (be making him a poser) and love the jock in Stranger Things s2. But I'm not grateful for either thing.

And if Fox wants my money, fine. Here is what I brought from them this year: The Drop (on BR), Prometheus (day one on 4k) and the Martian (on 4k). I've paid 2 tickets (approx 4 dollars each, as I am from eastern Europe) for Covenant but that is all I'll give Fo for their movie.

dk well said!