Comments (Page 542)

Great question daliens.

I believe David 8 would most certainly draw on examples in literature to communicate with humans. Instant recollection and a vast knowledge of literature gives David 8 a unique way to lie to organics to manage their behavior.

Yes, Michelle Johnston, I agree with what Ati cites above too.

I think that the consumer will get more viral videos before and after a future Alien film to fill in the blanks on character building. Or at least I hope so in regards to the film's concentration on how very disappointed the Engineers were in response to the Paradise and LV-223 trespass incidents.

Hi Ati. Do you know where is the above corporate interface is active?

Corporate Timeline No Longer Available

I noticed the weylandindustries.com website is no longer available and the domain forwards to the "Official Alien Movies Fan Hub".

Yes, the number of David and Walter androids in 2104 was a huge revelation to me in the novel.

No mass-produced plastic faces (beginning in 2042) like what was alluded to in the now-unavailable corporate timeline (David model evolution below).

I thought the novel was great chli.

I did enjoy the Lopé and Rosenthal concentration and the buildup towards the events that the book ended with. I believe the conflict at the end could potentially be some of the best visual effects of the franchise if made into film. Yes, I know this is an Alien story but there is quite a bit of story to tell before they meet the xenomorph.

I thought the Prophet (I believe a psychic) angle was unique in the story and I do like how Foster used these visions with Hideo Yutani to describe the technology used and those using it. I did want to read more on other aspects of the story (David 8, Dr. Shaw, Engineers) but I don't want to be too impatient with two Alan Dean Foster books coming out in the same year. 

How can one not be ecstatic in receiving two Alien novelizations in a year from Foster?

There is obviously a more detailed story line coming later in regards to what concepts and characters were not included in Alien: Covenant Origins.

Michelle Johnston

'At least in that way you bring forward David/Walter/W-Y response to the transmissions/Engineers response to Paradise and what transpired and do not waste an hour building characters .. that all die.' 

I hope the creators of the next movie will read these comments... 

Ridley 79 - I think your recut is OK. I would like to be spoiler-free, so...

As for the plus side, surprisingly enough, the different parts of the prologue 'The Crossing' work very well in your version. We see Shaw and it makes the relevant scenes better.

As for the dislikes, the original music of Covenant should be used. Your version is too silent for me. And now I know that Alien Covenant should not be started by the prologue 'Last Supper' because the original opening is much better.

Of course, it's only my opinion. :)

daliens - Great topic!

As I see it, the hidden meaning of the words by David is as follows:

'If you (Daniels) are kind to me, I'll be kind to you as well and won't kill you.'

In the novelisation the kindness is about the planet. 

If we are kind to it (the planet) it will prove to be a kind world in return. A world  that will provide everything that has been hoped for.  

If one reads the final pages which occur moments latter there is only one conclusion, he is toying with her, in the most deceptive line of both movies given what she has been through. His view of being kind to the world is to bring his colonists his subjects to Origae 6 for his future having disgorged the embryos.

I am just trying to imagine the first 20 minutes of the next movie would they play it straight in which case we would be screaming at the screen having already been through this twice or will we be much further in where at last David is on the back foot but then that repeats Covenant with an untold story but at least generates some mystery. 

I prefer Walter telling W Y what happened in flash back as a debrief on Thedus and the twist at the end is they put Ash on the Nostromo and dismantle Walter. At least in that way you bring forward David/Walter/W-Y response to the transmissions/Engineers response to Paradise and what transpired and do not waste an hour building characters .. that all die.       

Glad you like them.

Ingeniero - Yes, that image is from Burg.

daliens - We have the same feelings, but we should take into consideration that the comments were made in June.

I hope they'll tell us something about the AC sequel by the end of October.

BigDave - Happy you like them.

These give me great hopes for the next movie. Thank you for sharing Ati.

*Gedimen hits the liquid nitrogen fail-safe, but is too late as it fills an empty cage.*

Gedimen - No, no, no!

*He enters the cage and looks down the hole in the floor. The blood has already eaten through two levels. 

Gedimen - Christ. They could be anywhere. 

I liked the Neomporphs we saw a whole lot! These concepts are a little too close to the Protomorph for my liking, but still cool! If they went with this or something really similar, the difference wuold have been hard to tell for people not full invested in the movie or lost in the action. 

Yes Tiwaz, that reference.

I took it as potential impending event that gives Hideo Yutani a final, complete number on the amount of years he lived. I thought, from that the way that was worded, that he is killed later on.

This certainly could also be explained as an older man looking upon a long-term project that will outlive him.

As far as there being more than we have been shown... i think for certain this is the case, we have the deleted Scenes but even these appear to be re-cuts of some other not included scenes.

i will try and think of some examples.

*The Fifield Cargo Bay Attack, it appears there was a longer Cut where we would see more of Dr Shaw in the ATV as Originally she was the One Who Drove over Fifield..  Also the other version we have not seen but was in the Trailer, Weyland was being escorted down to the Cargo Bay towards the ATV/Transport before Fifield Attacked.

*Longer Sacrificial Scene, on the Blu-Ray we do get some evidence of Dialog between the Elder and Sacrificial Engineer, but actually this scene was even longer than that...  Prior to the Movies release, Actor Daniel Twiss talked about his role as the Sacrificial Engineer and claimed he had to Learn and Perform a Few Lines of Alien Dialog, which means the Elder Engineer and Sacrificial Engineer had a TWO-Way conversation.

*Davd and Engineer Dialog, it appears there was even more than we see in the Deleted Scenes, Ian Whyte and Fassbender had to learn a number of Pages of Dialog, Ian Whyte also performed some  that was actually in PIE like David spoke.. but they voiced over Ian Whyte with some made up Mumble Jumbo.

*Juggernaught Crash... there was a longer and never shown shot of the Engineer in the crashed Juggernaught, where he was leaving the Pilot Room, and then also running across the surface of LV-223 both with no Mask.

*Engineer Entering the Life Boat, there was a longer Scene shot where the Engineer knelt down and picked up a Book in Vickers Quarters, some reports suggested this Book was the Bible and the Engineer flicked through the Pages.

*Hologram Scene in Juggernaught, there are reports of a Longer Shots where the Engineers arrive Calm and then latter shots of TWO of them Running in a Panic and with most of these Scenes i am pointing out there are Stills on the Internet that confirm them.

*Engineer vs Trillobite, it appears the whole Scene is a Re-cut even the Extended Scene, as the Engineer Arrives with no Burns and during the Fight his Face has No Burn, then gets Burn and then No Burn again.. this can be seen even in the Theatrical Shot.

So it appears to me they shot a Scene where the Engineer gained the Burn while fighting with the Trilobite most likely from Acid Blood, there is a part just before the Engineer loses the battle where the Trilobite has wrapped itself around the Engineers Neck, the Engineer showing his Teeth... I can only assume in a Act of Desperation the Engineer had taken a Bite in the hope the Trilobite would release, but this resulted in Acid Burn...

It would appear RS was not happy with some of the prior Scene (vs Dr Shaw) and so while Ian Whyte had Burns Make up on, they Re-shot some parts of the whole set of scenes.

@Sheris

Indeed i think the whole Mural, Fresco thing was a disappointment, we have to wonder when they did these things was they actually thinking hard about what connection they have... or was it because it just looked Alien and Cool and to give us something Alien to dwell over without it being no more than a Easter Egg

I was Re-writing Prometheus that would have spent more time on these.  But i abandoned it 3 years ago.

Jeremy Love and Steve Burg are such great artists. I love the technical artwork Ati. Yes, bring on more films updates....

I believe the above Mars image is from Steve Burg for Prometheus.

Interesting pieces there thanks for the Share

Thanks for the Share...

Indeed there are some very good concepts here, some slightly different to what we see in the movie, and i am sure if RS/FOX push ahead with a AC Sequel within the next 1-2 years that a number of the Team will be called back together again.

They would have to Re-create parts of the Covenant Ship again for the next movie, even if most of it does not take place on board the Ship, i.e if we dont have say a hour of the movie wondering around the Ship.

But they would still need to keep/reproduce some of the Sets and Cryo-Pods etc.

And also not forgetting with some incoming Parties, this gives the chance for other Ship Designs and maybe some of them wont be as Advanced as the Covenant ship but more closer to the Nostromo

Unless David has seen the Cruel ways of the Engineers and Mankind, and sees the flaws that we have...

And maybe he would allow a Colony in Part to be Built, before he announces himself as KING and will look to cause Dominion over the Colonist like some kind of GOD and so if these Humans abide by Davids Rules and Laws... then maybe they can have a chance of a New Paradise.

It can be taken as a number of ways, it could be just David having a way to make Daniels feel better about the Future after such Horrific Events, as David has to try and play to Daniels so she cant suspect he is not actually Walter.

Then it may also be what Davids Psyche is about.... he was different to Dr Shaw because he felt she had been KIND to David, while he felt most other Humans treated him in a way he was not pleased with.

Then i do think David has far gone now, i think his perverted Agenda to be Creator has lead him to only care for his own needs, but he would show compassion for fellow Synthetics, but i feel he is now discontent with Humans and so has no Good Intentions for the Colonist.

Daniel's throat in the 1st image may open up a new mystery dk and ali81.

Yes, the 2nd is a little trippy and my favorite but I do really like the 3rd. The last image is a different type opposed to the posters above it and clearly great artwork.

Rock on Ati with the artwork. Great find.

These do look more closer to the Xenomorph than the one we got in Alien Covenant...

Its still a nice Topic to discus as for is the Xenomorph in AC a Evolution/Re-Creation.... or the Actual Beginning of the Creation and Hence a Proto-Xenomorph.

It appears to be the Latter, in which case we have to wonder where does the Xenomorph in AC get its more Mechanical Aesthetic that we saw in Alien.

If they still stick with the David created the Xenomorph route then it will be interesting how they tackle this Subject...  Maybe we will see the Walter-Morph after all LOL

I still think indeed introducing a Synthetic Construct like Elden from Fire and Stone down the Line would have been a way to Evolve Davids Designs.

And looking at what it appears Alien Awakening is going to show us, then having a company or other parties Ships turn up to Origae-6 does leave the Door open for a Synthetic Construct being part of one of the Ships crew.

I would even go further to suggest and if i was working on the sequel i would consider this..... that they introduce a Female Synthetic Construct.  Which could be used to make the First Proto-Queen.

But i think Daniels will be used in this some how... its still the Big Question of how does the AC Xenomorph become more Mechanical looking by the time of 2122 and Alien.

Indeed there was so much that could have been done...

I abandoned my Prometheus 2 because i could not 100% narrow down a way to deal with what state the Engineer world was in, and what true Agenda would have been, i had narrowed it down to a few ideas.

But i always felt if this Race of beings was plentiful and their observation of Mankind and how we had created our own Creation would be a tricky subject as far as how would David and Shaw be accepted and then what are the consequences, be that they are accepted or shunned... if the World had a abundance of Engineers then down the line we have to ask why none come back to Earth in the Time-line should David and Dr Shaw turn up....

A lot depends how far Paradise would have been... i felt in AC it was a bit to much on our Door Step..

So i would feel arriving at a World that has seen Destruction and having a few Engineers surviving in some kind of Noahs Ark would have been the road i was going for, where the Engineers realized they could use Dr Shaw to Procreate their nearly extinct species.

I was tossed up to have them Enter a Agreement with Dr Shaw, as they could offer her Child Birth, or have her reject this and then used against her own will.... or have it that David offers her up.  I would have gone for David eventually making a Covenant with Dr Shaw and breaking it..... making a Covenant with the Engineers which inc using/giving them Dr Shaw and then David breaking this too.

I was toying with these ideas before Alien Covenant was not even in any form of Draft... so no Covenant name came to mind.. i just felt David would use the Engineers and Shaw to his own Agenda.

And so yes there really was a lot that could have been explored...

I still felt arriving a a thriving Engineer World would lead to in-continuity errors, because even if these beings chose to ignore us and see us as not a threat... surely seeing a Creation of ours being able to use their Technology would be a concern and if these Engineers were aware of LV-223 and the Black Goo then surely they would see the threat and no doubt Send off a armada to deal with LV-223 and maybe then Earth.

Which was another sticking point for me, when i was working on a Prometheus 2... the Question of do those beings on Paradise know of the Black Goo and LV-223, at least as far as what the place had became.

Looking at Alien Covenant.. the Way David Bombarded the Planet and killed all those Engineers off, i had wondered from the Lead up to the Movie and more so when i saw the Movie... how could David had gained Hosts and Parts for his Experiments?

As those Char-grilled Bodies outside looked of No-Use..

I had speculated on this site, that its likely some Engineers ran into that Cathedral Dome for Sanctuary and it would cut itself off from the Infection outside.   And if the Engineers are close to Human, then in times of Peril it would be to make sure the Woman and Children are Saved First.....

And so i felt a number of Engineers would have survived inside the Dome, but the Environment outside was Toxic and would have stayed this way for years, and so the  Engineers inside would have had limited Food/Water which again the Females and Children would have been given priority.

And so David would only have to wait until Malnutrition had happened and then these Engineers beings would be more easy pickings...  thats the only way i could explain HOW David managed to gain and subdue Engineers for his Experiments..

As we saw how David Fared against One Engineer in Prometheus... but i dont think those working on Alien Covenant paid attention to such details... in part it was very poorly written in places as far as Logic goes.

The Xenomorph related Organisms that David had on Display is another Error, they had been Cut in Half and Preserved, yet no real signs of Tools or Agents that would allow for this.. never mind the Acid Blood and then the Big One...  How was David never seen as a threat of attacked by any of these Creatures?

The only logical way is if he controlled them or they merely had no interest in him and when some of them naturally died or he found a Poison he could use to kill some, thats how he was able to Cut them up for his Work Shop.

I am not well read so my take on it is that it is going to be terrible on that world. David will not be kind so it will not be a kind world.

Unless, the planet is inhabited then that is something else.

David may have something set up already. We only have his words the ships were disabled. Him adready going Off world is a small possibility

true hox, history is written by the victor

There's more than half a chance he's thinking of Winston Churchill's declaration: "History will be kind to me for I intend to write it".

dk, its an adams apple haha

truth of the matter is it doesn't really matter about the numbers as the numbers don't really reflect on whether the film is good or not. its more interesting info and an indicator on if there will be another or not. the numbers are also not a good indication of actual footfall as im sure many people, especially on this site, have been multiple times to see it. so many factors can be taken into account. for example, the numbers from Japan can be seen as not to great but when u take the violent weather and release date after so many poor reviews into account, it could be deemed as holding its own. also the first weekend of release is when the advertising comes into play. the 6 month lead up to AC was excellent. fox really did a good job in the material it released and the way they released it which got so many people excited for the film, including myself. don't think iv been as excited to see a film in many years and part of the credit for that, whether people want to admit it or not, has to go to Prometheus for the level of intrigue the film laid down for AC to follow. id say dvd/blu ray sales will be a better indication of how well received the movie was as most sales will be from people who have already seen it and enjoyed it plus, unlike multiple visits to the theatres, people will only be inclined to purchase 1 copy so a more accurate piece of data will be displayed. what matters most is... did you like the film??

Alien Covenant is about symbolism ending itself so that spirituality doesn't have to be self-deceptive; this idea would correlate with David's quote about kindness. Outcome of peace needs itself to be eternal, which means moment to moment behaviours of kindness which antagonise reality. 

To be kind, means to upset information

the scene with shaw telling david to remove the trilobite I believe is just a simple case of someone scared shitless. remember she cant have children but yet shes 3 months pregnant and its not 'a normal fetus' so it would be safe to assume she would just want whatever it was out of her without knowing its true identity. and talking of silly plot points. I don't think Prometheus had that many. yes it had silly ones that I would say the movie required to move the plot along but if u want silly plot points in the alien franchise, go watch AR. its littered with them.

Gedimen and the female scientist enthralled watching the incident in the mess hall miss the Xenomorphs in the cell behind them...They kill the weakest of their own, and spill its acidic entrails on the gantry flooring. They escape whilst Gedimen fumbles with his liquid nitrogen spray.

GEDIMEN - Oh god!

BigDave

Great post BD and the reason that I interjected in this quote from the book is you get a real sense of just where the enquiry (not between Daniels and David but between Shaw and David) could have gone. Two people, one an emotionally cognitive robot, the other a believer in the soul considering the Engineers and their behaviour and their beliefs. For Elizabeth believing in an after life to be brought up against her makers whose own view is of mechanistic Engineered creation would have been huge.

The conceit of Pandemonium which could have lead to a third film is the Engineers themselves as Ridley mentioned in 2015 were merely a superior species and therefore Shaw and Davids conversation about the notion of life and the soul remains unresolved and the subject of a third film. 

Put simply listening to David who has fooled the wet Daniels doesn't compare with Davids admiration and love for Elizabeth particularly once he has got ahead from her needlework. 

PS Why I would have arrived at a live Engineer planet is three fold :-

1) You can learn so much more about them. 

2) The tension between a live Engineer and a live Elizabeth would have been riveting. 

3) David in response to Elizabeths treatment (the Engineers may wish to sacrifice her) would show his commitment to her and by "poisoning the machine" (the original idea) and rescuing Elizabeth their curious Bond is maintained. You are quite right to point out the jeopardy that David would consider in confronting the Engineers but this is where the multiple Davids come in. The original David would send in a cloned David created out of the Engineers technology. After all if mankind had robots would not the Engineers be found to have there own technology for duplication riffing to some extent the matrix vibe which you hinted was included.  

At some point Shaw would have undergone a consensual fall and in third movie we would have seen her fall allowing David to provide her with offspring AND having fallen and then finding out her faith was right. 

The problem with all of this is we are talking about a fascinating thought provoking allegorical tale where denture chops is absent.  

 Elgyn- You're going nowhere, Annalee.

red0guy@gmail.com I actually bought the copies for friends who couldn't swing the purchases at the time but wanted it- so it's not franchise fatigue in these cases. Either way, it translates to blu ray sales for FOX.

Actuals for Alien: Covenant's third week are in.

It fell to #8 instead of #7, but its predicted forecast was actually pretty spot on. Although it only made $420,000+ for the weekend, some weekday adjustments must have come in as it now sits at the predicted $6.4M. Attendance for the film (tickets sold) is at an estimated 520,000.

I'd say it has about another week in the top 10, but making it to the 1 Billion yen milestone will take a miracle. The film will likely finish sub-$10M.

Call continues with her own personal mission, "I'm gonna finish this."  Yet, Elgyn is quicker than ones life mission and grabs Call by the hair, roughly pulling her back...

sherris It great to see that you hold Prometheus in seem esteem :) 

Hopefully after the next Alien instalment we will all be able to look upon Covenant with the same amount of reverence - for the secrets it has yet to reveal as we do for Prometheus.

Brian51 - '...the scene where the head explodes while Shaw is studying it ...it seems like something popped out of it.'

You are right. The head was infected by the black goo, so clusters of parasites exit the head similarly to the Covenant scene in which the Engineers are killed by David:

Thank you for your comments, I believe that everyone is right.

These are beautiful concept art images, they would look great on screen. But, I think, it should be admitted that the AC version works better becuse that is so different. Probably the movie makers had the intention to stress that the neo and the proto come from different background.

As for me, I'd like to see a totally different monster in the next Alien movie as well.

BigDave - Welcome, you are. :)