Comments (Page 755)

Hox: I understand what you mean but I think that they should have explained that in a better way. Let him explain what he means. The comment about the photo doesn’t make sense to me, they should have explained that better in the movie instead of just having some photo there because that would have made more sense.

Capt Torgo:

I would have preferred if they would have fleshed out the persons more and toned down the AI part but since most of the human characters were under-developed they needed the Walter and David part. The wheat field scene and the shower scene could have been better if they would have concentrated more on making better characters.

As far as the shower scene it lasted too short. One improvement would be if they dragged it out a bit and that it would be like some slow torture thing, that would have been nasty. If I would have got anything to do with something of that AC movie that is what I would have changed (among other things).

The art thing with Walter, I took that as David telling Walter that “we can surpass humans at their own game”, I thought that was kind of interesting. If you look at it in that way it kind of makes some sense so this is the reason why I don’t have a problem with it. Unfortunately, the scene was too slow but I sort of like the content of it so I am a bit divided about that scene if that makes sense. Another thing that I didn’t like is that it had some sort of a gay vibe to it now I don’t dislike homosexuals but for robots to be able to do that (have the scene being like that) it makes no sense. How can a robot have any sexuality? It is not biological what so ever.

Yes I agree with the Engineer city and the corpses. No one seemed to wonder “what the hell is up with this?”. I disagree with you about Prometheus compared to AC, I think that AC is better but if that is your opinion then I am fine with that.

Dr. Curt Connors:

I think that it's fair to say that it could have done better money-wise but still it seems to me that it's not a disaster. Hopefully they'll get some more money when they release it on DVD and Blu-ray, that's my opinion even though I understand that you have a different view on AC compared to me.

Chli: I totally agree with you since it would give David too much of an importance and I don’t like that idea. Unfortunately, the movie was too vague about this. Hopefully Scott doesn’t think that he created the original monster. Maybe I shall try to get the novelization of the movie.

This could turn into something interesting. I am in that category that would have liked AC to be a mix of Alien 3, Alien, and combine that with more action like Aliens. Should AC have been done like this combined with better characters then it would have been more enjoyable I think. Maybe some here might disagree with me and that is fine, this is what I would have liked to watch.

As far as more of the same there are many things based on Alien now (movies, games, what ever) so you can find inspirations from a lot of things. Prometheus was an attempt at something new but it failed mainly because most characters were so poorly done. If they would have tried to make better characters then I honestly believe that it would have been so much better. The movie is defiantly good looking as far as the environments are concerned.

Scott is good at environments and to put a script on film but he is not a writer it seems to me. Scott should handle the camera work and the esthetics but he should not write the script or have anything to do with it.

I disagree that AC was bad, Prometheus was worse. At least we didn’t get Milburn, Fifield, or Holloway. The characters were better compared to Prometheus even though they were not A+, so to speak.

Taking the Prometheus route is something that I think would have been worse keeping in mind how Prometheus was (here I disagree with the original poster). If the foundation (Prometheus) isn’t very good then if you base the sequel on it then there is a big risk that the sequel will be bad. Sorry but Prometheus wasn’t a filet steak it was more like a half-baked lasagna which means that there is a potential there but it doesn’t really work but with some development it could turn out well.

Unfortunately, the Engineers were so badly done in Prometheus so that is what we got why what we did. I am not a fan of going the AI route either, not as much as they did in AC anyways. Slashers in space is just fine, just look at Alien. Destroyed generations of Alien lore? I think that Prometheus did that, unfortunately by reducing the SJ to an angry albino man mad at humanity for a reason that is not explained in a good way. They seriously could have done that better.

Yes I don’t like how David was tied to the Xeno either. Maybe they will explain it better in the next Alien movie.

As far as the Engineers are concerned they can be interesting if they are done right and have a closer connection to the Xeno or the Xeno biology (think black goo) in some way. Don’t portray them like in Prometheus because that wasn’t very interesting. Have sub-titles if they are needed to understand the story otherwise it just becomes stupid (I think about the the Engineer, Weyland, David scene here).

An Engineer fighting a Xenomorph could be interesting. I would not like it to be David that created the Xenos, that would be lame. The Engineers would be those that created the Xenos and that their weapons somehow turned against them. Unfortunately, the Engineers have been done in a very lame way this far. No thanks to David as the creator of the original monsters.

I don’t want the Engineers as peace keepers of the universe. I want them to be brutal dictatorial effers. One other thing is that the Engineers shouldn’t have an easy time killing the Xenos, if they would just kill them like that it would make the Xenos loose their threat sort of and that would be lame. The Engineers should rather have the Xeno-mutagen (the start of the Xeno) think that they could control it and then end up getting eradicated because they underestimated them (it turned on them as Janek said).

Chris: Keeping the life in balance could be an interesting way. I wonder how they would do that more practically and how do the Xeno come into this? This could be a really interesting thing to explore in Alien Awakening or whatever the title will be.

Alpharius mentions something interesting about Gigeresque Engineer, I wonder how that would be. They were not very good in Prometheus.

Big Dave: Having Aliens and Alien 3 as cannon wouldn’t be a problem since they are tied to Alien 1 in a way (Alien to Aliens and Aliens to Alien 3). Alien Resurrection is just not necessary.

Nathan Adler:

Oh, that stupid Zombie shit.

Maybe he was about to be turned into a Xeno but that he hadn’t reached the final stage of transformation? Compare it to how a butterfly is developed from an Egg to a butterfly it also as different stages. Maybe he wasn’t there yet?

I like your question, it is interesting.

@Dark Nebula - Very cool!  I am ready for the Blue Ray!!

Now that Covenant has emotionally damaged myself it's hard to even adjust to Prometheus even though it's superior, imo. Why is Fifield not already turned into a crazy looking neomorph but is instead a zombie by the times he's baçk and dripping acid?=ridleys (get out) is it was a different virus goo in the ampule room or that pyramid. The deleted scene is not canon but one can infer riddles inteñt. What is bothering though is instant it should have been, he should have been just raging straight in minutes after exposure towards the ship. What a mess

Big Dave your glowing rock/tree/generator might be the best guess other than DNA/amber or alchemy stone. In Furious Gods there are digital concept pictures of the crew going deeper into the depths of the once much larger pyramid structure. At its core was this crazy rock with a glowing center it also had stuff like crystal organics growing on it. Maybe it's that concept boiled down as somehow them entering the ampule chamber = triggers a storm + removes cooling stasis of room to activate goo. I found the green slime on that recording panel (David rubs fingers) to just be a leaking power source. So is it connected to their temple power supply or is the parked juggernaut the source. My second best guess I think is, its DNA in crystal they found(somewhere in cosmos) and combined with the catalyzer they stole and mixed it to create madness....kinda like N. Korea with nukes.

Some nice items there, but no phone numbers or address on the contact page.

@Kethol I think you're dead on. I wonder if what Ridley is getting at is that humans and engineers have the same originator and are cousins. Imagine how insane it would be if we all came from the pathogen... IE- it was the first form of life and the biotechnology is a dormant state, as if it is a superorganism fooling them/us into thinking we are the puppet masters when in fact it is the opposite. It would be the best tribute to Giger if, in fact, the Juggernauts are ALIVE.

@Dr. Curt Connors,

David is a fantastic character, even more so when contrasted with Walter. The chestburster scene is terrific, and its CGI is bordering on beautiful. Just because you don't understand something isn't a reason to storm out of the cinema. Chill out. Reflect on what David knows and you don't. Reflect on the Prometheus mural with outstretched arms. Reflect on Holloway lifting his outstretched arms. Reflect on the theme of Christian sacrifice and the outstretched arms. Oh, and the music was awesomely delivered in the scene.

If you think that the identity of a favoured android with his missing hand, American accent, scar damage and familiar clothing needs to be challenged as a matter of course, really what can I say? Daniels doesn't have paranoia or a persecution complex, as far as we know.

It would be interesting if the next film shows a little background and explains the Prometheus prologue (with the teardrop ship) a little more, and depicts something epic like the biotechnology the Engineers supposedly made was merely discovered, like the settlers infecting the locals with Small Pox in human history. This biotechnology was proven to be uncontrollable with a mind of its own, thus the Engineers devoluted the creatures into the Accelerant. David has reanimated it, but the next film shouldn't feature David so much and should focus more on the Engineers and their history with the xenomorphs/xenovirus.

@Chili

Thanks a very gracious reply and your points about both the mural and the egg are great possibilities.

I also understand entirely why you want the derelict SJ and cargo to be ancient. The fact that it was at the time of Prometheus and might not be if we back into it is in my view an error. 

Equally I understand how John Logan writing for a huge global audience and the exciting and burgeoning Asia market wanted something quite straight forward.

Kethol, who gives the impression the micro science is important to him, again understandable if you cognate that way makes the point as others have that the laboratory is a bit sparse on tech to take the vials and shaw and engineers and create Eggs from a kick starting position.

The dramatic element in the film which places David as the creator of the creature in the third act is the interaction between the new born and David its really difficult not to see that as a quasi parent child interaction aided by the absent mother Shaw David's great love.

So for me to come and say "This is it" has holes in it where as to say this is how I interpret it and I appreciate others see differently works better.

The real question is, is Ridley deliberately vague with all this or are we, as we always have been, dealing with endless changes to suit whatever is being done in a particular movie.     

In my opinion asking for a war of the worlds between Engineers, xenos, WY, and who else is like asking Ridley Scott to step down. I wouldn't want that.

I doubt we will see an epic battle involving 2,000 xenos and lots of Engineers. Not from Ridley Scott. It is hard to imagine and even harder to make it in a movie. Ridley Scott will never make Aliens 2. And personally I would not ask for that, even if that't the final movie of the franchise. I have no idea what we'll get for the next movie but the Engineers have to get out of the picture somehow. 

Michelle: As a matter of fact, I agree with most of what you write (and enjoy reading it). You are very skilled and has a lot of knowledge. However, there are some topics where we have differed somewhat. Is David really passive-aggressive? Isn’t he very actively aggressive (the fight scene with Walter, for example, and the extermination of the engineers)? I suppose it depends on how you define passive-aggressiveness?

As for the egg (and facehugger) in the laboratory and whether David created the xeno, it is, of course, ambiguous if we take all things into account - interviews with RS, the movie, script, the novel etc. I suppose it’s because I don’t like the idea that David created the xeno and that the spacejockey on LV-426 only has been dead for 20 years or so (not fossilised). That’s why I was glad that in the novel Foster points out that David didn’t create the xeno (or the egg with the facehugger). He could be lying to Oram of course (about the petrified egg being created by the engineers), but why would he? What would the point be? As they enter the hatchery, David tells Oram that he has made the eggs there. Why would he lie about the petrified egg in the lab?

The mural is also very interesting. I wonder if we should interpret it as some kind of worship of the god of destruction which they can create with the help of the mutagen when they need it (war e.g.). In order to create this perfect being, an engineer or a human needs to be sacrificed?

By the way, the petrified egg could have been brought from LV-223, by the engineers, to their homeworld, just to show the citizens what they have accomplished in their facilities on LV-223?

Ep2!!! :D
Waiting as patiently as I can!! :) Ty for letting us know!

@Big Dave 5.46 

I simply wanted to say I took a lot of pleasure from reading this post because you actually acknowledge in a very honest way the impact on fans of having so much of the speculative and developmental knowledge in the public arena. 

I am perfectly happy to acknowledge that looking at these prequel stories is like turning over a many faceted prism shaped glass and looking at it from a number of angles. 

We also would learn something about ourselves if we as Katherine says "give ourselves permission" to own up to what we want from these films. We find answers which suit us. 

I know I needed the David/Shaw narrative to mean something which left David more emotionally aware, that was my need. The fact it is both vague and Davids reaction is less than clear lets down one of my requirements whereas whether the specific beast that always ends up blown to bits was created by the Engineers, David or Astro Zeneca makes no odds to me but I do see it really inhabits other peoples feelings.

Something else I learned from Covenant I was 23 when A was made and 57 when Prometheus was made both were right for me at those times Covenant is of little interest beyond the academic for this 62 year old. I am currently watching the  final season of "Person of Interest" its analysis of A I knocks the David narrative out of the park.    

Thanks Chris 

I watched it in the 80s at home when I was around 7 I believe. Guess it was the time just before ALIENS came out and the TV station showed ALIEN as a promotion or something.

I think it was the atmosphere in the film that caught my attention so much. I can still remember the moment how the ALIEN logo was revealed in the opening, Ripely running through the corridors, and when Ash's head got knocked off I was freak out. That was the scariest shit to me. On the other hand the chestburster scene didn't really scare me but it was a memorable one. I always played that scene on repeat on VHS. Also I must say the Space Jockey scene is the greatest Sci-fi scene I ever encountered. 

@Chili

Concerning the petrified egg in the laboratory (quotation). David to Oram:

"In case you are wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the engineers' skill. And also, I suppose, of their hubris. Would that I could create something so perfect in its function . . ."

There is nothing ambiguous about this, Michelle.

Chili you and I rarely agree on anything you will remember our conversations about David being passive aggressive with Sir Peter which is actually the central point of his relationship and expanded in wonderful literary detail in the book. 

Kethol very kindly has taken a transcription from ADF and he to is not in agreement with me either I quoted this notion to him several days ago (His "not exactly" remarks on another thread) and yet quotes exactly the point I am making 

"It is possible that the Engineers developed the xenomorph, or it is possible that David developed a more advanced version of the xenomorph"

What could be clearer that ADF wants to leave it ambiguous.

What is interpretation is how we initially receive the book I instantly took it to be a lie you took it to be fact thats completely cool. I entirely see how you would do that it would be nice if you had the ability to see the other persons point of view.

I also, like others, take all the other narrative movements and circumstantial elements and move toward a David creation myth. However I must stress unlike many I see the XXX121 as simply a product of a much greater creation story the ALIEN pathogen. David merely synthesised its qualities with other elements to create the particular creatures we see in the third act. 

What we cannot be certain of at a mythological level is how was the Alien pathogen created (so far Ridley sees it as an Ebola like strain) nor its relationship to the life giving humanoid creation spark which is one interpretation of the teardrop incident.

Put simply the Alien life cycle is merely one bi product which David instigates a certain outcome from. It is only part of a much greater and much more terrifying creation story.  

I think he wanted MUTHUR to tag the message as being from Walter and not David.

By showing us David using both identities interchangeably on the ship, I think Scott wanted to reinforce the concept that the androids consider themselves a collective entity, as in 'We Are Walter'.

joylitt

You're very welcome!! :)

That thread exists to help support and encourage my fellow fan-fiction writers, and there's some really good ones here, as are you yourself!
I like the idea of tackling Terraforming as a topic for a story, it's one of those topics that gets glossed over so often and ignored, and your story is setting things up very nicely from what I've read!

Oh! And another thing... if all of this really goes down on LV-426, then this would mean it was a paradise whose atmosphere gets fucked by this "War of the Worlds" scenario. Because remember, the Covenant captain felt that the Engineer homeworld was very similar to ORIGAE6 so heading there instead was just as good an option.

Nice topic! I thought I read somewhere that Origae6 was short for Original Alien planet (LV426). If the colonists were indeed heading to LV-426, then the Engineers, a follow-up ship from Earth, and I think Ridley said yet another party- all converge there and of course mayhem ensues. Maybe it ends with one of David's newer facehuggers infecting him as he attempts to take hundreds of these newer generation eggs to Earth. Here's the thing though- if the Xeno in it's "final" form is more machine-like and can infect an android, then why didn't the Xeno attack Ash?

1) He may have had some time to snoop around the ship and find the info somewhere.

2) The android's assigned security codes may follow a predictable pattern that he was able to discern (his mind is a computer after all).

3) Maybe he just asked mother to tell him Walter's security code, and she just revealed it to him because of the high security clearance of his own code?

His security clearance was still active and all since no one at Wey-Yu nor Mother knew he'd gone rogue. 

@Ati - Not merchandise sales. The real money comes from the home video sales, streaming, and broadcast sales. Theatrical is typically a money loser, but a necessity to promote the movie.

Blackwinter-witch Thank you very much! I am thrilled that you considered my humble work to be relevant enough to be part of your thread!

I can think of several possibilities:

1. He hacked the Covenant computer system.

2. He had access to the computer because of built in protocols from before the Prometheus mission. He was Weyland's second in command after all, and Weyland considered him in many ways his own son. If he could get in the secure parts of the system, he could look for any information he needed.

3. He was able to retrieve it from Walter's brain after defeating him, or he is in fact in Walter's body, and in the process of transferring himself he was able to retain Walters memories.

VivisectedEngineer

Great minds think alike, and I think that we're all here spurring each other's creative processes along, which is one thing I really love about this site!! :)

When it's done, I will make sure you will be able to find 'The Resolution of Walter', no worries on that. :) It's coming along very nicely and will be readably-ready quite soon. :) It's just a tie-in short-story, akin to The Lander.

Glad you're enjoying a view of the ALIENverse through my eyes, and just to say:
ALIEN: Manticore is steadily coming along, though at this point I have to throttle back a bit on speed to ensure I keep proper track of characters, details, continuity and critters. :D

@joylitt

Just found this and immediately upvoted as well as installed a link to this thread. :)
I really love how you and others are delving deeper into the universe and the elements in it we all just take for granted!

FANFICTION RESOURCES FOR ASPIRING WRITERS

I'm willing to write it off as a continuity error.

Slightly better shot.

Seems to be two heads in the mountain.

I have heard the acid blood and as an energy source theory before. I like that one much better than some of the other theories to explain the growth - like it absorbs water and carbon from the air to gain mass, or that it actually weighs very little but has densely packed mass that expands as it grows, rather than gaining mass.

@BigDave - I alwasy assumed the trilobite thing had acid blood. It's basically just a big face hugger after all.

The wounds on the Engineer's face could be from the Juggernaut crash or the trilobite. It's definitely not clear in the movie, but I like to think it's from the trilobite.

@BigDave

Sorry I type too fast and I did not see your second comment lol As soon as I wrote my last comment I had just left work :P I totally agree with you, hopefully the Space Jockey is an Engineer. I'd be okay with a human but how would it work with a synth? And yes, please have a plan Fox and stick to your guns Ridley!

It's starting to hit dollar theaters around the country as well, so it should get a small domestic boost from that.

It has been mentioned numerous time in various threads on here that the Xeno was in the Narcissus shuttle preparing to die, having completed it's task of subduing the crew and eggmorphing Dallas.

There are theories that eggmorphing may produce a "royal egg" which does line up with why the Big Chap was all mission- complete-time-to-die. Which in turn does support the acid blood as an energy source  / Battery theory.

The Protomorph Daniels crushed in the Lander's crane arm was hissing and smoking too from memory??

I read a theory somewhere the acid blood may be used by the Xeno organisms to produce its own form molecular energy as a bi-product of bio-electrical charges....literally xeno's have their own battery acid

“While Xenomorph acidic blood is primarily thought of as a passive defense mechanism used to deter attackers, studies show that it in fact plays a far more integral role in the creature’s biology. Research by Lasalle Bionational indicates that the acid is primarily a component of a biological “battery”, generating a powerful bio-electric charge by means of chemical reaction that provides the Xenomorph with its energy, replacing the need for traditional respiration and digestion of food altogether. This would would help to explain how the creature is apparently able to survive in the vacuum of space for significant periods, and also helps to explain how the Ovomorph stage is seemingly able to remain dormant but alive for vastly extended periods of time. However, the means by which the creatures may “recharge” this battery remains a mystery. It is quite possible it simply cannot be renewed, and that Xenomorphs will eventually die naturally as a result of this energy source depleting.”

SOURCE: https://cosmicchemist.wordpress.com/2017/01/30/science-of-the-alien-franchise-i-xenomorphic-blood/