Comments (Page 759)
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Also, Dr. Shaw acted pretty well creeped out by David, ever since the whole pregnancy-diagnosis fiasco.
She also seemed to have some suspicion that he had a hand in what happened to Holloway -or at least, that he knew more about it than he let on. (When they're on their way to meet the Engineer, David reassures everyone that the contagion that infected Holloway is not airborne and she accusatorily asks him how he knows.)
Even in The Crossing, when he complimented her while she was reattaching his head, she scoffed and rolled her eyes...
It's hard to see how he could have misinterpreted her as reciprocating his interest.
But, based on his interaction with Daniels in the Novel, it's hard for me to believe that he cares one way or another about whether his interest is reciprocated.
I think David's interest in Shaw was already more than platonic, long before she reassembled him, at least since the very beginning of Prometheus when he was spying on her dreams.
-David's interest in Shaw may have been partly fueled by his resentment towards her romantic partner. Holloway was constantly condescending to and belittling David.
-After he saves her from the storm and Holloway was berating her for her risky behavior, David showed concern for her and Shaw was polite to him in turn.
-When David found out she was pregnant from a recent encounter with Dr. Holloway, he reacted with jealous indignation. (Just watch his facial expression and listen to his accusatory tone when he says "My my. You're pregnant."
In the novel, he expressed a similar interest in Daniels, as sort of a replacement for Shaw. "She was my most beautiful test subject. Until now, of course.
Some official rover images from Mars, yeah, they are bizarre:
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Sorry guys if it's "considered spam" was just looking for some die-hard fans of the film. So hope you don't mind.
Also @ dk feel free to contact us at our site. Again appreciate the link, we have had next to nothing from this film. A couple of past Alien heads and suit belts etc from previous films. But wanted to hit the real fans with these. Cheers
Ha ha.. yeah who knows...
There are many photos on the internet claiming to be different things, many could be just miss-identification and some look like Hoax's for sure.
I think we need to consider David had become a Psychopath.
I would assume he started to get Emotionally unstable and he took Shaws treatment and care of him in the wrong way, he grew fond of her, this lead to more than Platonic and so in a way David thought of them as more than Friends and wanted to take it to beyond Platonic which must have freaked Shaw out.
David would have taken the Rejection bad... we dont know how many times he may have made inappropriate Advancements before Dr Shaw was so freaked out she maybe tried to get away from David.
But this could then lead to David being so much in Love, but seeing that now Shaw has become afraid and disturbed by Davids Feelings and Actions towards her that she would not want to be around him and he ULTIMATELY could have taken this Badly and he could not allow her to escape or to Live her Life without him being a part of it... and so Ultimately if he could not have her that way.. then no-one can.
I think many movies have used a similar concept, and indeed its something that happens in real life, i knew someone who was so in-love with someone who was a close friend, she did not feel the same way.. once this person had the courage to make a move and then explain his feelings, the Female was freaked out and started to distance herself.. it effected the friendship and then he got Jealous and picky when she had other interest of other Males... he got very bitter and hurt and well Love Turned to Hatred for her Fast... this is what Rejection did.
I think in part David had taken Rejection the Wrong way, i think there could be more to it than this... we also do not know if Shaw was ill... be it from Nutrition of other factors, we dont know if she tried to Escape and got infected or Ill while trying to escape or hide from David.
@Lawrence of Arabia
Indeed i understood where you are coming from, i was not implying the Mural was a Prophecy as far as thinking this was what you was saying. I was just pointing out that the Mural is so ambiguous that this is one theory but one i dont buy.
I think they had already encountered or created a Deacon before, but its quite open as far as how/when this happened.
Thats the beauty of the Ambiguity, some see the Deacon as a GOD a Race above the Engineers, i dont buy this though. Some see it as a Destroyer Created for that purpose.. i think it could in part play this role... but i think the Engineers had came to see the Xeno-origins as something to Worship and they had experimented on it to create the Mural Deacon which they then planned to Seed its DNA on Earth
Thus destroying Life on Earth and starting a event that would lead to Evolution again but would contain Xeno-DNA as opposed to Engineers.
I think many people have different theories, and thats the great thing with Prometheus, i am not sure that creating Deacons to then drop onto Worlds is the best way to eradicate life.
I think the Black Goo or even Urns full of Sacrificial Goo could do that all by itself. In fact come to think about it if the Engineers Seed Worlds to eventually create Humanoids.. but these proved to be troublesome and there was no real ideal way to get rid of the Humanoids and it was better to Wipe the Whole Slate Clean.
While Humanoid Life was their Goal, we can assume.. and they had achieved this... then i think it would have made more sense to Drop down either Engineer DNA containing Urns or even Urns containing the Sacrificial Goo as the result would just break down all Life on Earth and then allow it to be Restarted with the same DNA Building Blocks.
Dropping a Xeno-strain would ultimately lead to Xeno-DNA Organisms Evolving... i think the LV-223 Engineers had grown to Worship and Hold the Xeno-Strain DNA as more Perfect than their own DNA and this is what they wanted to do.. Evolve Life to have this DNA.
I think the term "love" is kind of a nebulous concept for David.
Even in Prometheus he was very fixated on her, but mostly expressed his interest by inflicting suffering on her.
E.g.: Taking her cross necklace under the pretext that it "may be contaminated" (when in fact he just kept it in his utility belt as a sort of souvenir because he's a little sicky).
Making psychologically tormenting comments like drawing parallels between her father's death and Dr. Holloway's death...and saying "You must feel like you're God has abandoned you".
...Spying on her dreams while she was in hypersleep, in order to get fodder for such comments.
...His entire reaction to her being impregnated with that...non-traditional fetus.
...David's version of "love" is a little...different.
Apparently Mars used to be closer to the sun thus warmer and things are slowly expanding outward.
There is no way to tell, but I could imagine there being lots of pictures we are not being shown. Imagine the hissy that would be caused if there was a picture of a three fingered glove or something non earthling.
Certainly looks to me like they obtained it from Sacrificing a Organism Related to the Xenomorph.... The Mural is maybe one of the Experiments that had created by this..
The other Temples could contain slightly different versions of the Pathogen... so the other Temples could have a Mural with something a bit different. I think regardless there had to be a Origin to the lot of them.
Which is why i found the Frescos interesting... and what relation it had.. I always interpreted it as the Prometheus Punishment.
So if Elizabeth was still alive when he experimented upon her, was he just able to ignore her screaming at him for doing so, etc.? That's rather odd that he wouldn't end her suffering sooner if he claimed to have loved her.
Indeed until we get to do some actual archeological digs etc we cant be sure.
The Surface does show a lot of Evidence of Mars having Water, and indeed some kind of Plant Life though as well as at very least some kind of Organic Matter... Moss/Algae etc.
I would assume its 75% likely Mars had some level of Plant and Water but thats My Opinion and who knows if we can prove this in my Life-time... but as far as how Advanced Life was who knows... i think Mars was more than LV-223 but by no means we cant prove it was a Paradise or Earth like World as far as the amount of Plant and Organic Life.
I certainly find it unlikely it supported a Advanced Civilization like we have on Earth... unless off course it was as Advanced as Mankind say 2-4 thousand years ago. My point being if the Time of the So Called Great Plagues and Exodus in the Bible or even the times of Christ...
If some Traumatic Event had happened that impacted the Earths Atmosphere so we lost our Ozone Layer and Atmosphere completely over hundreds of years... say 2-3 Thousand years ago... i would assume in say 100 Thousand years definitely say a Million there would from Space appear little evidence of any Civilization left. And so the Earth would look no to dissimilar to Mars today.
But only time will tell, i am sure in 75-125 years we would be digging up and unlocking the Mysteries of Mars. But Experts think it could be as early as in 25 years but i find that a bit to optimistic... as far as say what the Movie The Martian was showing us.
I think I just found it on Amazon. Is it by Simon Ward?
I'm not saying that The Deacon at the end was THE DEACON or that the mural prophesized it but that the process was one that was already discovered by the Engineers. This is how they wiped the slate clean, with an Engineer sacrificing himself to a Trilobite (possibly made through intercourse as with Holloway and Shaw) and give birth to a Deacon which would eliminate all non-botanical life. The Engineers made the Trilobite and made the Deacons. David simply reverse engineered their process and perfected it with the traditional facehugger and Xenomorph. Guys, watch "The Furious Gods: Making of Prometheus" chapter 6 "Demons in the Dark" and click on the Enhancement video when they start talking the Deacon. I'm not speculating.
Indeed... i think a lot of Fans can come up with some really good Fiction... just a shame that FOX will only really take on writers who have had some degree of previous history and success.
For many movie Franchises there have been some very Good Fan-Fiction includes Star Wars.... i even started but then abandoned a few years back well about 2013 a The Thing Spin off.... which actually my idea was a bit like what we saw in the Movie LIFE lol
@IndyFront: Has the pathogen perhaps been derived from a xenogod they sacrificed, and this is what the mural is depicting - akin to Tiamat or Kingu who were killed by the Elder Gods and their remains used to create subsequent races from?
@VivisectedEngineer
I found the book and novel at Books-A-Million :) And I LOVE the novel, I haven't gotten any further from page 70 but from what I've read so far I've enjoyed. Especially the part where Walter tries to get Daniels high by handing here a joint XD
@BigDave
I feel you man (the beer money!), I pretty much spent my whole allowance on this stuff lol The books are rather interesting as they flesh out the characters and their motivations better. Like David and his feelings towards Shaw. He fell for her but in his own morbid way. He didn't want her to leave so he incubated her.
@Nathan Adler
He doesn't explicitly state why but since he is acknowledging it so maybe it has more to do with the Protomorph/Xenomorph not being perfected yet.
Indeed i think we need to consider a few things...
The Deacon that resulted from Dr Shaw may have been a one off event that was related to the Mural due to using DNA Pathogenic substance obtained from a Original Deacon (however this was created).
But the Fifield and Hammerpedes also contained that Deacon DNA but did not look similar... (The original Fifield had way more Xeno-DNA). They had done many concepts for various forms of Fifield too.
But the Actual Deacon could kind of be Re-created, which i think David had done with Dr Shaw. If we assume the Deacon required a Female Host either for her EGGs or just her Womb....
Then in the past the Engineers could have created a Deacon by similar Method if they had visited Earth and other Worlds and Collected/Abducted Humans.... We even see in AC those Engineer beings had Females.
If David had instead made a good impression on the Engineers instead of bombing them, or he came across Survivors and Spiked a Males Drink... who had sex with a Female Engineer, then its Logical to Assume a kind of Trilobite would be created, that would lead to a kind of Deacon.
We cant be 100% that the Male (Holloway) just transmitted the Pathogen well part of it to Shaw like a Sexually Transmitted Disease... If this is the case then there is no Need for a Male as a Female only needs some of the Black Stuff from the Glass Vials exposed/introduced into her reproductive Organs (Ovaries) and the Result would be a Trilobite.
The Source i had who apparently had information on Prometheus to as far as Work Up to November 2014.. had claimed that David Re-Creates Its (Deacon or Xenomorph?) and all you need to Re-create it, was Knowledge and Tools and David has both... they also hinted that David Re-Creates One Monster related to the Xenomorph... but we see another that David does not directly play his hands in.... Oh and Dr Shaw would play a Small but important Role in this and Technically would not be Dead.
It surely would be interesting if Paglen/Greens Drafts ever come to light.
spam ham no bone! hahahaha.
A entire movie covering what went down on 223 from the engineers point of view as suggested by a YT reviewer, no humans, sub-titles for the engineers language would be superb.
Adding on to what Big Dave said, the Deacon we see at the end was the result of a somewhat convoluted and incoherent process begun by David-8 experimenting with what he found on Dr. Holloway and Shaw. The Engineers (besides the Xenovirus they had) played virtually no role in the organism we see at the end of the film. The mural also seems to imply a Xenomorphic being distilled into the pathogenic substance (As it is implied to be 'melting' or 'dissolving'.
I think indeed he has been cross mixing traits from various Organic Life... This is the Purpose of the Sacrificial Goo IMO
SG = Sacrificial Goo
So SG plus Wolf and then resulting Material comes into contact with a Human and we get like a WEREWOLF
SG plus a Cat and then resulting Material comes into contact with a Human and we get like a THUNDERCAT lol
THUNDERCAT plus SG then resulting Material comes into contact with a Wolf/Human Hybrid and the Result would be 50% Humanoid 25% Cat and 25% Wolf
And so you could experiment in this way over and over and then come up with some pretty unique creations... the Sacrificial Goo being a Tool to Mix Organic Traits of a Organism into Hybridizing with other Organic Life.
Davids uses the Black Goo as a the basis.. where the Process would be the same but every account would contain Xeno-strain DNA Regardless as for the Majority of the DNA so all his Experiments would thus be at least 50% Xeno-strain DNA and by cross mixing he could eventually create something much Higher % Xeno-strain
I think the Juggernaughts and Urns was actually just a Evolved way to Seed worlds with Humanoid DNA rather than Sacrifice a Engineer as we see in Prometheus, they Sacrifice a Number of them collecting the results into those Urns with other Components to then use as a more better way to Seed Worlds.
Hence the Reaction from those Beings in Paradise, until they saw the Black Goo being dropped..
So those LV-223 Engineers had decided to use some Parasitic Ancestor to the Xeno-strain as a basis for DNA in those Urns as opposed to Humanoid... Those LV-223 Engineers had became obsessed with the Xeno-Ancestor Parasite and saw the Mural Deacon as more Perfect than even their own Engineer DNA.
Thats how i interpret it all... but its a subject thats very open to interpretation.
Meh. Even if that happened, the Nostromo would have been heavily damaged. I could see them finding a wrecked hulk of the refinery floating in space, but it would never be habitable for humans ever again. Seeing how they couldn't find Ripley floating for nearly a century in the core systems, the Nostromo wreckage would likely be lost forever, or at least for many hundreds perhaps thousands of years. Anyone know if the reactor had any form of spacetime-warping tech?
What if in addition to the above, they were also experimenting with dream control. The connection of the unconscious and the mind via the psychic connection of the Aliens to their hosts? What if Resurrection was (primarily) within Ripley's mind, but not via a chance dream, but as part of a vast corporate agenda involving mind control and utilizing the Hive as the ultimate Weapon of Mass Destruction, not only pacifiying rogue colonies but also uitilizing it as a form of thought-identification and pre-crime. In doing so, a future film could feature an aspect of the Hive far more terrifying than ever presented in Xenomorph fiction.
This is beauty with Prometheus it is so ambiguous that any theory can apply, as the Mural to my knowledge has never been 100% Explained by RS etc.
I think Lindeloff covered it the most... will have to dig up what he said again, but even this was ambiguous only that it was a Deacon.
This does not have to mean it was THE DEACON as in the one at the END and so i dont think it was a Prophecy kind of Mural
But even this could be used as a Theory... its pretty open to debate.
My Interpretation in a Nutshell?
The LV-223 Engineers are a rebellious Faction and their purpose was either
*Created Clones for a Specific Purpose (Engineered Humanoids/Super Specimens) Who could not Procreate
*They are remains of a older Engineer Race who had lost the Ability to Procreate (or lost/had Females Taken from them) hence the Sacrificial Purpose.
They then either came across a Parasitic Organism, or they had came into contact with it via some kind of Punishment.
The result was that these Engineers saw one or a few of their kind Gestate to and Give Birth to a Organism related to the Xenomorph-strain. They saw this as some kind of Miraculous way they could Give Birth to Life (which they had not seen for Thousands of years, or if at all If they was Designed Clones).
So they perverted the way of being Genetic Gardeners by Experimenting on this Parasite in a number of ways until they had either.
*Create the Deacon in the Mural, saw it as Perfect and Sacrificed it to create the Mutagen in the Urns.
*This was what they was trying to create, using the Mutagen in the Urns that they likely obtained by Sacrificing a previous Creation.. that had came about from a Original Parasitic Organism.
That sounds pretty cool, I'll see what I can do in three minutes. ;)
From some of the deciphered text from David's sketches, it heavily seems that he was mechanically (as a robot would) putting together the Xenomorph from traits and biologies of the life on Paradise. The way it fit together like a puzzle seems to imply that the life on Paradise (and likely other Engineer worlds including Earth) were distilled from a 'perfect organism'. I.E. - the Alien. The idea that humans are unimportant and that nature itself is supreme would fit nicely with the idea that organic life was at one point not so diverse and distilled into a perfect organism that could survive any environemtn on ANY world at ANY time. I.E. - the Xenomorph or Ultramorph from which the Engineers distilled the pathogen.
I still say that there be the spine tingling scream of a deacon in the hologram/engineer chase scene in prometheus, an engineer is looking back over his shoulder and the deacons scream is clearly audible, david say's "they were about to leave before things went to pot", so something major involving their ungodly experiments happened, which i believe involves a deacon and some black goo(the infected engineer).
FOX has their way of doing things, which you so very aptly and amusingly stated!! :D
I have MINE, and my works seek to preserve the aspects and elements we love about this franchise, while also working to explore the vastness found in it, without damaging the Lore.
Anyway welcome aboard ;)
And i still think there is hope to introduce the Engineers again, RS has said they will play a part in the next movie.. and if FOX/RS feel a majority of fans who was disappointed with AC would have wanted more explanations to Dr Shaw and why David had done what he did... then maybe David could explain it a bit more... but i would not hold our breaths.
More chance FOX may feel the General Audience would want to see Ripley back into the Franchise :(
Hopefully FOX take on board what Prometheus fans had to say and at very least give us a Novel that covers the events from when Dr Shaw and David find the other Juggernaught until when David had created his First Egg and the Last Breath Dr Shaw had taken.
As well as filling in what David learns about the Engineers during that time.
I am gunna stick to chli's argument that david is recreating what the engineers have done before, if it go's the opposite way then the mystery of the derelict and the hatchery on 426 is dead and buried.
I will further add that we do-not know what Paglen/Greens Prometheus sequel was like, i had been informed of the broad strokes loosely 2.5 years ago but i cant guarantee this Source was correct at all.... as AC is different movie as Logan/Harper had re-wrote quite a lot of it.
Logan has had some Good Work in the past, maybe we cant judge Green just on the Green Lantern is very kiddy friendly kind of Super Hero movie.. but then so is Guardians of the Galaxy.. just executed better and well i find Super Heros like those in GOTG and the Green Lantern to be more aimed at the younger market and not really Super Hero movies i enjoy anyway so its a Question of can any one really make a Green Lantern movie that would have been EPIC? He was more suited to Comics and Hero like TV Series. I think any writer can only do as good as the Comic Hero Character and some Heros make for better movies.. others should stick to Comics.
Micheal Green also wrote Logan and i dont think that was a bad movie totally different tone to Green Lantern.
I think AC had a few flaws with his Plot/Story the main problem was that the movie was changed to be more about bringing in a Alien Connection and Xenomorphs, and unfortunately kind of wipe Dr Shaw and Engineers under the Carpet... but FOX felt Fans in General would not want to see such a movie that explored Shaw and Engineers.
And so i think FOX are where the Buck Stops... i do think RS does kind of give in a bit to the demands of FOX though, but he knows if he was Stubborn and had Ideas that FOX did not like or direction they did not want to go in... Ultimately if its a Movie that FOX are against... they will likely get someone else in instead of Ridley Scott rather than Give in to a Movie that RS has 100% the say in... so i think AC is a colaberation
Going to have nightmares now! Thanks! :-)
Keep them coming!
Thanks!
So many ideas....
I really like to see a shoot-out on LV223, marines versus David's 2000 zombies/experiments.
Just kinda' logical that David would like to get his hands on more black goo and another juggernaut?
Like to see Mother save Daniels/Tennessee.
Indeed Prometheus was very H.P. Lovecraft as far as themes, the movie had tried to touch upon a number of different themes and motifs, trying to blend them all loosely into its own kind of Movie... the very ambiguous nature also leads to a lot of debate and speculation.
Unfortunately Prometheus got a lot of Flack, it had its Lovers for sure... but if we ask EVERY Alien Franchise Fan which takes on every domination of Alien Fan.. then it really is a very mixed bag of people and opinions... If we look at the more Hardcore Fan base its the same and i think when i talk Alien Fan... i think if we consider every fan who has spent more than a Few Months making posts and commenting on Alien Movie Forums and Youtube Videos... Or Fans who own at least Half the Franchise Movies and Watch on Average One of them at least Once a year... Fans who have some Merchandise be it T-Shirt, Mug, Toys etc etc.
I think the only way FOX could risk big Money on a Movie is if every single Fan who would answer YES to one or more of the above went to go and see it in the Box Office. If you also asked every Fan who answered YES to one or more of those, what Movies they like and dislike i think you get a bit of Split opinion where i would BET 50% are Aliens Fans i would also suggest that maybe 25% of the Fanbase as such disliked Prometheus to some degree when i say Dislike i think as far as seeing the movie Certainly not as good as the first 3 and for some even Alien R
Now if you exclude any Fan who has not answered YES to those things i put, and so they like the movies but do not regularly watch them, or own any Merchandise or Partake in Online Activity to talk about the Franchise.
If you asked those people about Prometheus then a number may not even get the connection, a lot may not understand the movie even if they knew it was a Alien Movie... for the General Public it never made much sense.
Also it lacked any Xenomorphs... and i think this is what FOX/RS in hindsight regret about Prometheus it was just not very Alieny at all
If Alien Covenant never had any Xenomorphs just Neomorphs, it was still a more Alieny movie... it would have disappointed some though... unless it showed the Eggs in someway (i.e if there was One Dissected Egg ) so we could assume the Neomorphs are a Re-engineering then it would be a more Alieny Movie but even still not as much as FOX/RS would have felt a MAJORITY of Fans would have wanted.
In Hindsight, if Fifield looked more like a Xenomorph Hybrid, and we saw Milburn Get Chest Busted by a different kind of Alien that escaped and then was found and attacked the Crew. This would have made for a more Alieny movie.. and i think its the lack of this in HINDSIGHT that lead FOX to change Prometheus 2 to become Alien Covenant.
Thanks for the props man :) Those who watched "The Furious Gods: The Making of Prometheus" should know this! I've already laid out where people can see what I'm talking about, the mural is of The Deacon which is what the Engineers have made. Yes, they've had a way longer time than David in creating these death bringers but David is a perfect being while the Engineers are not (they are just as fallible/mortal as man). The Xenomorphs are his perfect creation which were reverse engineered from The Deacon.
@BigDave, Mars is an enigma, being the most earthlike planet in our solar system, scientists have come to a conclusion that mars had a salty but shallow ocean in the past, there are some rather freaky looking anomalies that people have picked up in nasa and esa orbiter and lander photographs but until explorers set foot on the surface and document these anomalies and show the world, they will remain just speculations.
Oooh, good to know... I'm not going to set out looking for movie props because there is no way that's going to end well for my wallet. Maybe one of my pals will do it for my birthday, lol.
VivisectedEngineer Ill try and find a way we can all easily do the dying android voice.
