Comments (Page 771)

The book describes the Covenant being in "deep space" p. 41.  I guess to figure out what kind of space event took place (in the novel), we need to figure out what Walter means by “deep space”.  NASA defines “deep space” as being beyond the Earth-Moon system (I don’t think this is the correct definition for the purpose of the Covenant mission and the date the human population is in).  “Deep space” can also be defined as the outer space outside of our solar system.  “Deep space” is also defined being the definition of space outside of our galaxy (Extragalactic space) or as the space between galaxies (Intergalactic space).  Apparently it could also refer to interstellar space as well. 

I think in the novel Walter refers to space outside of our solar system.  The reason I think why that definition applies is because the Alien movies are, in a way, an extension of our own real universe.  If strictly speaking about the movies, which is where most people know of the Alien universe and timeframe and where they make the most money and publicity, I like to think of the Alien movies as taking placing in the future of our own real universe.  This thought is kind of broken with the prequels, but it still exists.  So, LV-426, LV-223, and Fury are all within the Milky Way Galaxy.  Also, I think if the Covenant was interstellar space all of the time, I think Walter would have said Interstellar Space and not Deep Space.  Plus, the Covenant mission (as said in the “Last Supper” video on youtube), is apparently the first large scale colony mission this far in “our” galaxy.  What other term could be used to define space outside of our solar system than “Deep Space”?  It just seems fitting to use the “outside of our solar system” definition. 

Walter says in the novel (p.41), “It was assumed that in deep space, the coincidence of occurrence would be too small to be of concern.”  Wherever the Covenant ship is, I doubt the planning team for the Covenant mission would be able to predict all of the nearby stars passive and active phases on the way to Origae-6.  I do see the Covenant planning team studying the stars enough to detect possible supernova explosions.  To me, for any deep space mission, solar flares would be considered as too small to be of concern if proper precautions are taken.

“Astronomers using NASA’s Swift satellite spotted a massive solar flare coming from a tiny star on April 23 (sorry, I don’t know the year).  The explosion was over 10,000 times more intense than anything that has been recorded from our Sun.”  This star is called “DG CVn.”  “It’s radius and mass are about a third of that of our Sun and it’s about 1/1000 less luminous.”  NASA astronomers were shocked at the power of DG CVn’s flare.  “This system is poorly studied because it wasn’t on our watch list of stars capable of producing large flares,” says astronomer Rachel Osten of the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore.  Basically, NASA saw it by accident!  “We had no idea DG CVn had this in it.”  “Flares this large from red dwarfs are exceedingly rare,” says Adam Kowalski.  SO, I think this situation could easily have happened in the Alien universe and in their time when we are talking of deep space travel.  The star which emitted the “charged particle flares” in the Alien: Covenant novel could have had a similar story like the DG CVn.

A man named Olin C. Wilson tried to find out in the late 1960’s if all stars had similar passive and active cycles like our Sun, which is 11 years for each cycle (this equals to a 22 year cycle for our Sun to start the cycle over).  What he found out was that the answer is no.  His research showed that other stars have activity cycles that range from a few years to indeterminately long.  Some stars appeared to have no change in activity too.  From this, I think that the Covenant planners did not try to predict every stars cycle timeframe along a possibly flight path, whether in a system or not.  Plus, even if they did, they most likely couldn’t figure out how large a flare could be on one of the passing stars during a short, 10-year plan of time (that’s unless they studied all of the stars in the area in the past, which would be highly unlikely). 

Instead, I think the planners laid out a route which was obviously quick, yet avoided any possible flares and supernova explosions.  They could visually see which stars were close to a supernova explosion, but obviously couldn’t predict any flare sizes.  The path could simply just have included staying away from Red Supergiants, binary white dwarfs and possibly Red Giants too.  Also for a safer trip, the Covenant most likely was traveling near star clusters as much as possible since the stars within those clusters age can actually be estimated, unlike a single star in the middle of space.  Supernova explosions than could actually be estimated to a point.  I guess traveling near clusters would make sense if another route was traveling next to a Red Supergiant alone in space.  Thus, in the novel, a super large solar flare could have been released from a nearby star and struck the Covenant.

The book doesn't actually state "solar flare" or even "stellar flare".  A stellar flare would be the correct terminology, but, as you know, they are essentially the same thing.  As you have said, "Walter called it "a highly charged shockwave" p. 40 (which a solar flare starts as a very big explosion and is highly charged) and "charged particle flares" p. 41 (which a solar flare is a flare plus it emits charged particles).

Also, on another note, David could have access to the Engineers telescopes on “Paradise” so he could study the nearby stars.  I mentioned that before, but I think it could be wrong.  Instead, I am sure he simply looked in an Engineer library on “Paradise”, which would contain all the information he needs to understand the nearby stars.  I am sure the Engineers knew at least just as much about their star(s) as we know about our own Sun for their own safety.

@daliens

THANK YOU!!! :D

And yes! Shri Krishna always plays the flute! He doesn't look anything like the Engineers though, lol. Krishna's complexion is the color of the night sky, between the starts - the color of the universe. :)

@Ati To that I say, this movie could be a LOT worse. I'm not sure what people were expecting outside the obvious Shaw and David go to Planet 4 and answer all the questions but that's not as exciting and interesting as what went down in Covenant imo But I guess I'm easy to please xD

@BigDave
While I enjoyed what we got, I do agree, certain things did need to be fleshed out more and YES a bigger budget. Hopefully the 20mins that was cut flesh out the movie and I'm looking forward to the commentary.

BigDave, YES GO AGAIN! I going tomorrow, come back and share your new thoughts.

 I am very anxious for AC's bluray release. Want to see this on my big screen and really get into it the extras and goodies I hope it comes with.

Prometheus' special 4 disc edition was great for the extras, mainly the Furious Gods docu. I spent last weekend just watching Prometheus again then sat through the 3 hour making of! Great stuff on there.

Wouldn't mind Spaihts and Lindelolf back, they have some really interesting ideas and I like what they created with Ridley.

 For anyone who has yet to see The Furious Gods, I highly recommend you watch this. Its VERY insightful and a must watch for any true Prometheus fan

Lawrence of Arabia - 'I felt the A:C was a good sequel to Prometheus which really set the stage for things to come.'

I wrote something similar some weeks ago and somebody answered my comment this way: 'It is easy to please you.'

Going to have to think about this one and get back to you all lol

Bit Tired... so have a think... but  think a lot of the scenes potentially had a lot going for them, they was just not executed as good as could have been or fleshed out as good as could have been... like the Novel for instance.. but this is a Problem with Movies and especially ones where the Producing Companies and Execs want to get the Story/Plots Told within a limited shooting time.

I am sure a 3 hour Shoot would have allowed for the detail as the Novel had..

The movie had a number of things going for it, sadly execution and how it came across on screen did not do these as much justice, compared to reading them from a book and imagining how they would look.

The Movie from Start to After David Arrived to Save them from the Neomorph i felt was pretty good, Sadly the rest just did not have the time spent Budget wise or execution and screen time wise to highlight the Plots and Ideas as well as could have been.

so while it had flaws and a bit of disappointment... i can totally understand most of those limitations, the movie really did need a extra 45 Minutes and surely also a extra $50M Budget.

The Prometheus themes felt more sprinkled this time around which I had no qualms over. I mean, it's still about creation, creators, and destruction mixed with nihilism while also feeling more like the traditional Alien(79). I enjoyed what happened to Shaw and David's character arc, that he created the Xenomorph (I know the species goes back to before Prometheus as indicated by the Mural but he did create this specific Xeno and probably later the classic). 

I'd go to the theater with you BigDave :)

Some good points i would like to tackle...

"The only way I can think of David being able to get a hold of thousands of engineers to experiment on, is they were in statis somewhere, either on the planet itself, or perhaps on the dockonaught ship?"

Indeed the Novel is a bit flawed when it mentions thousands but sometimes the guys who write this stuff dont but a lot of thought into some things...  The passage does seem to  hint at David Salvaging Body Parts that are not effected as bad from the Bombardment and in effect making himself a Frankenstein Monster.

A Logically Explanation for me would be that during the Bombardment the Cathedral Dome Provided some kind of Sanctuary from the Effects, a lot of Engineers were Desperate to get into the Cathedral Area, and so its Logical to think and assume that those inside shut the Doors to keep the Black Goo from effecting those inside.

I will bring in a Potential Safety Device in my Next Point....  but to expand on this first one, if the Cathedral Provided Shelter like the Noahs Ark, a Question would be does this place have enough Food and Drink to allow those beings inside a chance of Survival? Eventually with when Food and Drink has ran out.. those Engineers would die off and those who remain would be Weak...

Leaving David free reign to experiment on Fresher and None-Infected Genetic Material.

The Docking Ship could also have survivors from its crash who are injured or trapped knowing that leaving the Ship would mean they get infected.

"Those are all possibilities. When David said, "If not controlled, a single application is quite capable of rendering an entire world uninhabitable", I took the "If not controlled" part to mean the Engineers did have a method counteract the pathogen whenever desired"

Indeed i had always wondered why those Bodies looked Burnt, and debated on many a thread on here before we found out any information about the David Bombardment Scene.

But i still think my theories could apply to Davids Bombardment in that the Cathedral Domes Golden Device could be some kind of Energy Weapon which was activated so that it neutralized all living matter and thus led to those Engineers being Burnt so that it prevented the spread of the Black Goo... this would logically explain the Burnt looking Bodies.  This Energy Weapon Blast could also had taken out the Juggernaut and Docking Ship.

Another option is the Docking Ship itself deploying some kind of counter measure to prevent the Black Goo effects and rendering those Engineers Burnt Corpses.

Such a Preventative Measure would make sense as far as to Stop the Effects of a Seeding/Bombing Ships Cargo Effects.

@Ati

LOL! If either David OR Walter (Or both!) showed up at my party...I would be so ecstatic as to not even question the impossibility of it. (And woe be unto any of my other party guests who dare question it!!! <_<)

My only request is that, should I (God forbid) find myself a casualty of a little creative genetic engineering, may I at least have the opportunity to make my passing as theatrical as Captain Oram's!

Ati I hope I won't be here till September or I might do what you suggest.

There must still be some estival screening somewhere for me, I was waiting 5 years for this movie.

You guys are wonderful, glad to have found like minds who appreciate lonely perfection of Ridley Scott's dreams. ;) I felt the A:C was a good sequel to Prometheus which really set the stage for things to come. I can't wait for Awakening!

VivisectedEngineer Wasn't Krishna playing a flute too?

Happy birthday! Many returns of the day and many more good Alien movies to come.

Going to get one of those tshirts when I return home.

Do some Boiled Eggs in shells and Paint them and Decorate them to look more like Alien Eggs.

Inject some with this stuff...

Then wait to see who Picks a Bad Egg....  you can tell when THIS HAPPENS....

PS Grim Reaper do make fantastic Sauces ;)

joylitt, I see all your points and yea I can see how one might feel that way.

I think for me, while I love and praise the Alien'79 I dont hold myself to it where each movie from the franchise needs the "Alien" formula or else it wont feel Alien enough like you say.

 Funny thing is while I love AC a lot and have no real complaints... now that I think about it, my only gripe would be that is TOO much like Alien'79 and doesn't feel enough like Prometheus! LOL AC didn't feel all that original.

Aside from all the horrific moments and tension...

What I love most about Alien Covenant I think are the moments of exposition. Davids prologue scene with Shaw, his conversations with Weyland, Walter and Oram. These moments are what really bring me into the movie and this universe Ridley is creating.

@BigDave

"But eventually they would be weak due to lack of Nutrition and Clean Water"

Actually, in the book, there was fruit and clean water in the cathedral! Remember David's drizzle room? Plus, there was also wheat growing on the planet.

Of Shaw, David said: "I kept her alive for quite awhile. I like to think that was another testament to my creativity, although she might have disagreed."

I figured the fruit, wheat and water(in the drizzle room) were likely instrumental. I do wonder how he managed to keep her quarantined from the pathogen.

VivisectedEngineer - I have the feeling that your perfect birthday party guest would be David... or Walter... or both. :)

I think the Prometheus themes were very interesting and its  a shame they was not explored enough.... the movie had to cover a number of other things too and the movie really never had long enough to do any Justice apart from the Build-up to the Neomorph Scenes.

daliens - The movie opens in Japan in September. If you are the captain, just sail there and jump in a cinema. :)

VivisectedEngineer Thanks, I am sure I will enjoy it. I'll buy the blueray too. It's good not only haters post here because I almost logged out from the forum with some David like feelings. And they are not really haters, I am sure they will admit liking the movie after few more trials. We are all from the same Alien Univers. Long live Ridley!

I have seen it 3 times, but not for weeks now i may go on my own to see it again as i cant find no one who would go and see it again....

I am looking forwards to the Blu-Ray and DVD especially to see what extras are on it.

Locked the other thread... maybe  IndyFront  you can copy and paste your reply to this thread ;)

As far as the OT... wow my Eyes are hurting i find such writing hard to read for starters never-mind so low resolution i really hope we get these images in a Book with a full translation well in Bold Txt so we can read.

From what i am reading it seems the Engineers obtained something that allowed them to steal/borrow traits of Natural Life-forms and Engineer them into their Technology to create the Bio-mechanical Atheistic...

So in effect their ships are part Organic and Plantlike...

It would appear David has studied various kinds of Organisms and been taking and blending traits of each of them into his experiments in the pursuit of Perfection.

Its interesting he has studied Engineer Babies, and experimented on them as one of my biggest Questions was (since seeing the leaked Props way before the Trailers)  The Big Question i had was those Humanoid Baby Skulls and where they came from.

I was wondering did David manage to use some Engineer Seed with Shaw to create Babies and in effect Grant Shaw Childbirth but use them to David own Agenda.

It appears David indeed had access to Females who had bared Children for him to Experiment on....  Which leads me to indeed ponder was the Females of the Population mainly kept indoors or indeed inside the Cathedral especially when the Bombardment began and so some Survivors had managed to Qaurantine themselves inside the Cathedral.

But eventually they would be weak due to lack of Nutrition and Clean Water, this would explain more Fresh Bodies for Davids experiments and also how David could approach Engineers without any actually being able to disable him... as the Engineer in Prometheus did with ease.

@daliens

Oram looking into the ovomorph seemed completely believable to me. I mean...it's not like he's every seen an Aliens movie before...

@Ati

Lol, I don't doubt there's one in Budapest, but that's not where I am :) I think escape rooms are catching on fast, world-wide!

But oh my gosh, am I ever looking forward to my birthday! Booked the escape room today, and I'm in the midst of getting everyone's shirt size, so we can all wear our Covenant T-shirts!!

The one thing I'm having a bit of a quandary with is the cake... I'm vegan, so my cake needs are a little specialized. Normally when I need cakes for my classroom parties, I commission one from a vegetarian baker friend who goes to my temple. 

...But I can't envision myself asking a sweet and pious Krishna-Bhakta to bake and offer to Krishna a cake shaped like a person with a Xenomorph bursting out the chest... >_<

Ati I'm myself on a ship :) at sea. And I can understand better some foolish reactions of the crew when stepping into unknown territories. You can't imagine how many people would actually look into an opening ovomorph after months of being confined on a vessel. That can change your behaviour dearly.

Seriously, I wasn't a fan of Davids character in Prometheus. Not that I disliked him, just did nothing for me at the time.

Now that we've moved forward with the story I really love the development of Davids character as shown in AC.

That opening and just about all of Davids scenes really knock it out the park for me. David has become one of the most interesting characters in all of these movies.

@RZA

Good point, the sound effects were very well done! I heard somewhere that there is this type of sound that human beings have a primeval aversion to, which will invoke an innate sense of dread - it is the sound predatory cats like tigers and lions make.

It is my understanding that horror movie makers use a similar sound in their musical scores to evoke a similar sense of dread! How clever is that!?

I agree RZA, that there was nothing to dislike in AC. I loved it so much! But, if you want more explained, you will really love the book! Any questions you may have will be elegantly resolved! :D

@daliens

Don't listen to the haters, they just don't understand the lonely perfection of Ridley Scott's dreams.

You will REALLY enjoy the movie, I highly recommend the book, too!

VivisectedEngineer 'just found a CRASHED SPACE-SHIP THEMED ESCAPE ROOM in my city!!!'

Isn't that in Budapest? :D

We would be happy with 250-260 million. :)

@Ati

Aww, double thanks!!! :D I really don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this awesome community, full of all you fun folks who like to share and read ideas about AC!

...I guess I probably would have spent my summer explaining my opinions on AC to my houseplant, while occasionally performing dramatic readings of selections from the novel <_<

daliens - Wow, where are you now?

The Movie is a Masterpiece , Happy to know that is going to reach almost  the 3x of Budget

Yeah, the real one, the ultimate. What kind of English did I use? Japanese? :)

@Ati

Search returned no hits, did you mean:

" David is the best monster... :) "?

Great topic!

But you all pretty much explained the exact favorite scenes as mines and are much more eloquent at explaining so LOL

I really enjoyed that anytime something ominous was about to happen you heard that eerie sound playing in the background. Especially when they first encounter the pathogen and hell ensues! LOL

Truth be told.. I really cannot think of anything I did not like about AC!

 However, do I wish there was more explained and shown? YES!

So i would say the Neomorph is a one off event of sorts, but something that could have happened before or indeed happen again if Black Goo was to infect Types of Fungi/Spore or Molds.

I would think that Paradise had not been infected prior, but then i can see how such a theory could work as a way to explain why those Engineers never left the city if the Area around the City had been made Safe but the rest of the Planet could still have remains of Organic Life related to the Black Goo.

My interpretation however is different as i still wonder if the Juggernaughts Purpose was to Drop Urns of Engineer DNA to Seed Worlds... and that a Faction of Engineers got infected with some Organism that lead to experiments to Perfect it hence the Mural in Prometheus and these Engineers then Re-weaponized the DNA and used it in the Seeding Urns rather than Engineer/Humanoid DNA.

But any other theories are still valid as we have not had no solid Spoon Fed Set in Stone Answers to how the Black Goo was obtained and what it really 100% does.

I love those comments. :)

@Ati

Lol! I suspect it's just that - we're of the type who enjoy emotions and aren't too particular about which ones.

I can never be certain of whether "interesting" is a complement, but I'll take what I can get! So, thanks! :D