Comments (Page 83)

BD:

"Therefor it would seem UNLIKELY our Engineers only ever Lived on Planet 4, and only ever Seeded the Earth and only ever had ONE outpost World like LV-223."

Exactly, that's why I want to see some of it, what they have created. If they created life on earth then how does it look like on other planets? What do they have in common with us (humans)? What are some of the differences? Are the differences because it just happened or was it because the Engineers wanted the differences there for some reason?

In case you want to have different movies about the Engineers let's see one movie about planet X and another about planet Y. In this way you can see how they have dealt with different parts of the galaxy (galaxies?)
About horror, not all horror movies are based on monsters so maybe you can replace the Xenos and Xeno-types with the Engineers. This is why I say that you got to keep the Engineers ambiguous and have parts of their culture being unknown. When you show everything then the horror-part disappears. Having androids responsible for the horror is less effective because they are closer to humans than the Engineers seem to be so that was a huge mistake. It wasn't that scary to me, it was a failure with the direction.

"..... its a Case of would this Gain any Interest?"

I just want to speak for myself, yes if the Alien-connection was clear, if the engineers were made scary and interesting and make sense. The characters must be the center-point and be well-written, something that we haven't had since 1992.
"If Prometheus was a Stand Alone..."

To me it would be the same thing, you got to have a good story and well-executed characters which needs to have a good script for it to work. I would probably have many of the same problems with it as a movie on its own as I have with it now. Would I have the same problems with it as a stand-alone movie? Maybe that would be the case but it's about how the movie is executed. Write better characters and don't cut out important scenes just for a stupid run-time. Last but not least show us how it fits in the alien-universe, not some stupid thing like is this an alien-movie? If it's in the alien-universe then be clear with how it's connected otherwise you just cause confusion. Just show some things to make people see that's the case but you don't need to be extremely obvious. Not too obvious and not too vague

Having it turned into a mountain is weird but I'm OK with not knowing. By not showing what happened you allow people to make up their own stories, a bit like the mysteries that we were given in Alien. Comics is one thing movies is another so I hope that they never let that happen in the official time-line.

The problem is that it all went so fast so we got no chance to see how it all looked. I wish that we would have seen some of what was inside of there. When the humans went to see David they ended up in some place, I wish that they would have had that place in some of those buildings, even though we saw the Hall of heads. Unfortunately it didn't look too impressive, it should have had more Gige-style, but maybe there would have been another way to make it look interesting even though there would have been no Giger.

"But their Buildings seem more Technologically Advanced than those on Earth even Hundreds of Years ago."

That might be the case, but since we just got a quick glimpse of it there was almost no time to think about it. You can go back and watch it by pausing that scene, but you didn't get much of a chance to think about it from the exposition that we were given in the movie, which is a shame.

Maybe they got less of a budget on this one, but they should have made the Engineer city looking more awesome. Unfortunately, we almost didn't get any scenes with the engineers, they should have done better on that front.

Even though clothing might not seem interesting to them, at least they should have looked better. You don't need to make them look like simple peasants from the 1500's or whatever century that they can be compared to from the look of it.

I'm not sure whose idea it was to make it look like that but whoever decided on that design made a mistake. If you make an interesting design some people might want to know more about it but if you just make it like the stone-huts then people might not get that interested since they don't look that impressive. From story point of view it might be good to have it there but from a design point of view it doesn't.

About the hall of heads, it reminds me a bit of the Jedi council in Star Wars 2, a place where they meet and discuss things. I don't say this is what they used the place for but it could have been a part of it, maybe.

I would rather have no movie rather than another one with Ripley in it. Get new characters that are well-written, if they get Ripley right and the rest are bad then the movie would be bad anyways.

Alien 3 is a good movie, AR is a disappointment. Keep 3 and erase AR if you shall erase any of them, even though I'm not a fan of that. Not sure if I want Blomkamp involved, I'm not that impressed with what I've seen from him this far. My main reason for being against an Alien 5 is that they would throw Alien 3 to the side, I'm against anything that would do that since it's a good movie. The franchise should never be about a happy family story.

Doing constant re-boots and re- whatever is boring, why is it so difficult for them to come up with something new? At least the idea of the prequels was good but the execution wasn't the best. Introduce new things but please stay away from Ripley because she's done.

"It is mentioned in prometheus that they likely had a civil war."

I don't believe anything like this was mentioned. The captain of the Prometheus did pass an opinion that the pyramid was a military installation where a weapon of mass destruction had got out of control, but no mention of a civil war.

I've mentioned my thoughts before, but - based on known behavioural evidence - it strikes me that the ancient race of the Engineers have long since roamed the Galaxy and heavily steered the development of life. As Ridley Scott put it: "gardeners".

As to whether they tend the garden or plant it outright, that's an open question. I'd like to think that life has evolved independently millions of times throughout the Galaxy, without Engineers needing to light the blue touch paper.

But it is evidently clear that if the Engineers don't like what they see, they are more than happy to wipe the slate clean. And - rather disturbingly - they seem keen to mould life in their own image. Echoes of Christianity there, where Man has dominion over all creatures on the Earth, but taken one level further to embrace the entire cosmos.

With a virtually limitless supply of alien civilisations facing the prospect of annihilation, that could lead to some very interesting storylines.

@BigDave, you mention that the Juggernaut is not a good war machine. I agree. But it's good enough, and I am happy to entertain the thought that its design / technology may hark back to an earlier period. The Alien universe is weird enough that the Juggernauts could in a sense be alive, and are grown. Maybe they came from a race that preceded the Engineers.

Both are Plausible.........

Its a Question of WHEN they Chose to go this PATH (David as the Creator) and IF they then Intended to Eventually take us to HOW/WHEN/WHY the Derelict and Cargo got to LV-426.    And then HOW MUCH they had Thought about the Inevitable Outcome?

Or did they NOT YET have a idea to HOW they will Finish?

All i can say is that Ridley Scott had said that the Xenomorph is NOT QUITE their Yet (Bio-Mechanical) and it has some EVOLVING to go before we get to ALIEN.

Also Chris (who Runs this Site) had some Request by FOX to remove some stuff that was put on HERE like Way Prior to Alien Covenant, what he had to take down as about David potentially Creating the Xenomorph and a Synthetic Android (other David) becoming the Xenomorph....   so we had to ASK as to WHY was that stuff asked to be TAKEN DOWN?

What we had is that David had begun to Create the Xenomorph, and at some POINT we will have seen HOW the Xenomorph becomes Bio-Mechanical and it could be LIKELY that David or a Walter Model will be the KEY.

Personally i can see WHY this was done, to make David the Creator but i think he could have GONE to make something more Superior the ULTRAMORPH instead. (which is Apparently what was the Plan in 2014, that in the Summer of 2015 was Changed to Create the Actual Xenomorph).

Will David be responsible for the Space Jockey (had they Continued) who knows...

Would a Synthetic had played a Role in the Bio-Mechancial Xenomorph i am Pretty Sure it would have.

I know a LOT who feel the same... for Various Reasons....

I am NOT a Fan though, i think Ripley had her Journey, unless they wish to Continue with a Sequel to Alien Resurrection...(if you want to have Ripley again).

I think the Problem with going "ah well that never worked well" and then going "well lets just Ignore that and make a Alternative" and Especially with DISNEY as the Owners.... is ONCE you Begin... where do you STOP?

You OPEN the Door for the Franchise to be Rebooted Over and Over...

The Statues are like the Buddha Offering Statues (other Cultures had Statues of Offering)  Those in Alien Covenant and thus in a Offering Pose, they seem to HOLD a Cup/Bowl like the Sacrificial Scene.

The other Statues are of Engineers, and they are NOT the same Engineer but all Different.  I think the Logical Explanation is that Juggernauts will come to Planet 4 from Time to Time, and then when they do its a SIGN of a Sacrificing the Chosen!

For them it may seem a Honor to Sacrifice yourself so that you can CREATE LIFE and you LIVE ON in that Life.

From the Shooting Script (or Script it was based off) .... but the Dialog was CUT!

Ridley Scott had said its like Mayan Cultures in that they would Choose a Sacrifice they would LIVE as a Prince for a Year and then be Sacrificed to the Gods to for the Benefit of their Culture.

So if we take all of that and look at Planet 4, then if these Engineers will SELECT a Sacrifice from Time to Time, and then a Juggernaught will Arrive to take them away to be Sacrificed....   These Engineers are Honored to do this and they are kind of Immortalized in that their Death will Create  and so "Let your body become the dirt. Your blood become the waters. And may your soul become their way back to us"

If these CHOSEN then get a Statue Erected in their Image so they can be Remembered Forever and Immortalized in that way, then THIS would Explain those Statues around the Plaza that Circle it and the Center is the Hanger with those Offering Statues.

Thats NOT to say this is the Case... its just HOW the Clues seem to me.

Regarding the Differences....... YES that has been a Problem for some, but then as i said in other Threads, maybe the LV-223 Engineers are a Sub-Creation?

If we look at Bladerunner and its PLOT then the Replicants are mainly USED as Expendable beings, they will Perform Tasks that can be Dangerous to Humans and a lot of TOIL....   they are NOT really Human and so if they DIE its not Important.

If your Culture at some Point thought that to Sacrifice your OWN kind is Barbaric and against Human Rights... then you go OK lets Create a Humanoid Clone who is Grown so you Create the Replicants and then you Sacrifice them to the Gods for a Better Harvest etc

So maybe the Engineers at some point did the same and Created the LV-223 Engineers for this Purpose?  Or maybe they was Created for another Purpose but then someone had Sacrificed one of those GUYS when they are NOT really supposed to (Prometheus Opening Scene).

So YES there are ways to look at that.............. it Really comes down to WHAT they Intended with the Differences, who came FIRST?

Time wise and Budget it would NOT have Cost a LOT to make those Planet 4 Engineers look like the Prometheus Ones... more Glossy/Grey Paint but of Prosthetics on Nose/Ridge and Contact Lenses and VOILA!

Regarding the Worlds we have seen so FAR....

Planet 4 does-not look like a Military Place to me, it may seem Strange that those Engineers seem to Populate that ONE CITY, but its as i said in another Thread this is Quite like what Paradise was like, Paradise being Planet 4 and therefor that City being like the Garden of Eden.

LV-426 seems to be the PLACE that the Derelict and its Cargo had ENDED UP being on.  It seems this is just a BARON MOON (Prior to ALIENS).

LV-223 is a Interesting One, it could be Purely a Military Outpost, but then its WHY would some of them or HOW/WHY was it that Clues to this Place had been shown to Mankind on Earth for at least 30'000 Years?

*Come to this Place when you can! (Ha Ha those Humans will DIE when they do).  AKA TRAP!

*Dont go to this Place its Dangerous! AKA WARNING!

But then IF there Intentions was to Destroy us all that Time ago then WHY do they NOT go and do it?  It seems ONLY about 2000 Years ago they Attempted this and it went to POT!

I believe that LV-223 is a Outpost to Experiment and Create Life, to then Assess this Creation and WHEN you are Pleased you can TAKE IT or Seed it down to Worlds.  But at some point this Place  had Became or was Turned into something else.... and the Horrors began.

The Juggernaught to me does-not make a Good War Machine.... well ONLY if your Targets are a Race who are NOT in anyway Advanced to Protect themselves and also the SACRIFICIAL GOO is the Perfect Weapon as it it.....

RAIN DOWN URNS of that Stuff and what Happened to the Sacrificial Engineer would Happen to the Life on this World.... you have RESET the World.

Sacrifice fellow Engineers in a way to Collect the Broken Down Material and STORE it into URNS and then RAIN them down on a World and you have a more Efficient and Diverse way to SEED a World than to DROP OFF a Engineer........................ and THUS this is WHAT i think the Juggernauts were they are a UPGRADED version of Seeding Worlds. (The Original Drafts there was NO Pebble Ship but Juggernauts).

However this does-not mean the Engineers have or NEVER had any Military as surely there would be Conflicts the ONLY WAY they would NOT really Need more than the Juggernaught is IF all the other Worlds that have Intelligent Life are KEPT in Check and Technologically Ancient.... and that any Threats have been ERADICATED many many Years ago.

But the Galaxy is HUGE and the Engineers likely have been to other Galaxies and so the Potential for Conflict both Current and in Past and Future is HIGH and you would Expect the Engineers to have some WAY to deal with this.

@MonsterZero

Thank you that's quite the endorsement. I remember one member of my reading group speculating on whether you could make 'The Movie.'

Since I began writing I have found unsurprisingly most writers use personal experiences of place, one of the oddest examples is when I wrote the approach to the Mountain, I knew the terrain but had not walked on it. When I did I was astonished to find how accurate it was right down to the tufts of grass blowing in the wind.

I also think taking the hidden opening into the tunnels to the inside of the Mountain with its functioning Iris, having seen the ruined versions on the Moon, would also have a lot of cinematic value building tension and excitement. 

Indeed, there are many visual moments in the Temple, in the Pebble Ship and Davids final journey. 

One of my favourites is Charlie's astonishment when they walk out of the forest and he sees the Juggernaut and its the first time he has seen one, becalmed in the long grasses of "Paradise."

Certainly think that a Civil War in the Past is Possible.  Before the Prequels we could ASK as to WHY the Space Jockey had those Eggs, and IF they was as Biological Warfare then against WHO?

The Prequels had began to indicate the WHO was US...... ONLY it Evolved to becoming that the Eggs were NOT the Original Bio-Weapon but something that Evolved from the Bio-Weapon..... which Latter again had been Re-written to a Creation of Davids using the Bio-Weapon to Create it.

But we are looking BEYOND and before the Prequels and at the Broader Agenda of the Engineers (not Restricted to Earth).

And so the Engineers (as far as who we been Introduced to and WHO had Created us) are NOT any kind of Super-beings or Magical Gods.  They are merely a MORTAL RACE who have Existed for Millions of Years (Maybe over a Billion) and merely have been AROUND for a Long Time to Evolve and Advance themselves to WHAT we see.

And so we can look to Mankind for Answers.......... if we get to the Alien Franchise lets say ALIENS and so its about 2180, and Mankind has Found New Homes in the Galaxy and Colonized Worlds.  Does this mean that Mankind has NO MORE kinds of Conflicts with each other?   What if in 2500 and we have found say 5 Earth like Worlds that we have Populated and say 25 other Worlds/Moons we have Established Colonies on but they are NOT quite Earth like.

Do we have it were we say OK so CHINA you have that Planet, and AFRICA you have that Planet, and EUROPE you have that Planet and North America you have that Planet etc.

Would this Prevent those Nations from having Conflict with each other?

Even so then a Planet that is Owned by CHINA for Example, who is to say that as Time goes on that this Planet and its Continents do-not get into CONFLICT with each other.

The ONLY way to Maybe Prevent this is ONE GOVERNMENT/WORLD ORDER and so its like say that THIS all Powerful Movement either Take On a Religion and then you FORCE the World (or Galaxy) to FOLLOW this Religion, or Alternatively this NWO  say Accept Atheism and then Eradicate Religion and FORCE everyone to Atheism.

This would Eradicate some Conflict but you will get Rebellion and the Odd Faction form up that would NEED to be Quashed!  Do you take it Further by Eradicating all Races apart from ONE... this may sound a bit HITLER....

But even IF you did all this....... Mankind are Prone to Greed and so Conflicts could STILL break out.... so they LIKELY would Exist.  And so WHAT if we looked at all of this on a LARGER SCALE in Terms of the Engineers!

Has there been Genocide among their OWN KIND? 

IF they Create Life in their Image then IF they deem these Creations are NOT keeping to their RULES or they become Concerned they are a Threat or Potential.....  Or EVEN if they FEEL this Race is NOT so Perfect and they want the Worlds Back to then Create another Race.

Then YES its likely the Engineers would Destroy, and do so for the Benefit of their Greater Agenda.... but INDEED there could be Factions with Different Agendas and so YES we cant RULE-OUT the Engineers having Internal Conflicts, and Especially if they POPULATE many Worlds.

The other THING would be to ASK as to are ALL the Worlds in the Galaxy and Beyond, places that the Engineers Created Life?  Could there be Worlds that have Intelligent Life that is NOT something the Engineers Created?

Would the Engineers feel Threatened by these and having to SHARE the Cosmos with them?  What if the Engineers see this Races Home-world (or other Worlds inhabited by them) and the Engineers are like "This Place is Perfect for us and our Creations"  would the Engineers want to SHARE? or would they Destroy the Civilization on these Worlds and then CLAIM the World for themselves?

I really hope that if there is an alien 5, it would ignore the events of alien 3 and resurrection 

I mostly agree with that, but the thing is that the xenos being bio-mechanical wouldn't really make sense timeline wise either. The alien we see in covenant is a preatomorph(also known as protomorph) which, in a deleted scene was explained to be a species brought back to life by david. If it was actually that old i suspect the xenos would look more organical. The most likely scenario for the space jockey is that it's a "drone" created by david to infect more worlds with the xenomorphs. Or perhaps it is an engineer/sub creation that tried to prevent the xenos infecting wolrds by crashing the ship on purpose 

I mean, "plot" could or could not be an excuse for that. However you are right about the statues, it looks like the place was used for a sacrifice/experiment. If we look at the engineers from prometheus and covenant, they have significant  differences 

I think the most likely answer is that the engineers use their bioweapons/the xenomorphs to kill off whatever lives there, and then restart. Engineers are most likely a multi-solar system civilization, and planet 4 is likely just a military base and LV 223 and LV-426 were research facilities. It is mentioned in prometheus that they likely had a civil war, so there are likely different ideologies/factions

Its been OVER a Year since David Giler and Walter Hill had mentioned about their ALIEN V Project, and Nearly 18  Months since the Draft.

I think the Disney Acquisition had put things on HOLD and then we had COVID which puts stuff on a Back Burner, but with the Unfortunate Death of David Giler (R.I.P) in December its a Case of would Walter Hill wish to Pursue this STORY?

It seemed that Miss Weaver as Ripley was KEY to the Story, and it did-not seem she was 100% up for Returning as she seemed Unsure she could do the Character any Justice anymore.

Its been VERY QUIET on the ALIEN Franchise in regards to Theatrically, we had a Confirmation of a TV Series instead but even thats all QUIET...

If we have Nothing by Alien Day 2022 then maybe it could be BAD NEWS and a LOSS of Interest in the Franchise from Disney (until maybe 2029 when they REBOOT it.... well maybe).

But there are Franchises, Movies that had A.I and Robots and they are ALL not SET OUT to Destroy us.

If Done Right then we can have Sympathy and Empathy towards them... Especially if they have Human Traits... and i am NOT talking about Aesthetically.

But that Raises another Interesting Point.... can you Connect and have Empathy for a A.I/Robot that does-not appear to look as Human.

A Terminator looks Human.... Skin Deep.... but what about other Robots who do-not look Human much.... such as CHAPPIE (Aesthetically), a Example could be the Movie (Archive) you could have some Sympathy for J2 compared to more Humanoid J3.

It would be almost like if Weyland had Survived and came Across our Walter and was in AWE of Walter and Become more Interested in this NEW MODEL leaving David to be LEFT OUT..........(before David became the Evil SOB he was in AC).

"Ah Walter you are much more Human than David, why i would think my Own Daughter was more a Robot than you, David's Humanity is only Skin Deep!  But you... well my Friend i NEVER thought they would Surpass my David"

Yeah TV Series allow you do add more Depth to Characters, and there is a LOT to the Franchise beyond those EGGS and so a TV Series could touch on A.I in more Detail.

As far as Main Characters i think the A.I has played a BIG ROLE in the Franchise apart from maybe Alien 3, where its more Cameo.  Bishop was ONE of the Main Characters from ALIENS.  When we look at Alien Resurrection then Call was a Interesting Character that had more Depth  than Most of the other Characters, she also like Bishop and David were a Survivor of the Horrors of the Movie they was in.

Ash well he did-not Survive.... but he was a IMPORTANT Character to the PLOT, it would be likely that with NO ASH.... the Xenomorph would NOT have got onto the Nostromo, so his Character that was added to the Story played a KEY PART.

Can a A.I play the Main Lead though?   David seemed like a Support Character to Dr Shaw, and you can say Walter was the same with Daniels.  But when we look at Prometheus then Dr Shaw's Character just NEVER stood out, it NEVER like Stole the Show!

With Alien Covenant we are left with Daniels and Tennessee and again they were just Underwhelming, and LIKE HIM or NOT or the ROLE/ARC he has been Given, we see David as being the Pivotal Character of the Prequels and i Suspect that would have Continued with a Sequel.

The Problem with David is he is Straight Up... Malevolent so People are Unlikely to Connect with him or Care.... UNLESS... they give him a ARC! 

With the Mythos/Religion of Gods we see THEY seem Quite Malevolent at times.

So IF we see David want to Create a New Eden on Origae-6 and he sees those Human Embryos as the STARTING POINT.... if he was to Create a Superior Human from them.... his CHILDREN and he goes to Raise and Nurture them.... could be become a Sympathetic Character?

He told Daniels (when she thought he was Walter) in regards to WHAT KIND of a World can they Build.....

"If we are KIND it will be a KIND World"

I am NOT sure that he would ever Build himself back to Redeem himself, its likely he is MORE INTERESTED in becoming a GOD.. and at Times then GOD can get Angry!

This is why you're a writer. Lol! These overarching framework concepts are just hard to grasp. Pulling on a single thread implodes the whole thing. I've read just enough novels to make me dangerous!

I think making a screenplay of your story would be a worthy endeavor. 

I wouldn't have a problem with a tv series around a Bishop synth....Movie?! Probably not.

If David was a hero figure ( like Bishop ) I can see him in a leading role....Sort of like Spock leading the dumb humans on adventure? I always considered Spock a android .....But I'd don't see a Spock centered movie...Nor a Next Generation Data based movie.

So, no a Tv series is as far as I'd be willing to watch...I think RS knows this especially after Alien:Covenant.  

I think David has drawn some Inspiration from his FATHER a Megalomaniac, i think his Dislike for Humans comes from his Miss-treatment by many.  It seemed liked he was Building a Good Relationship with Dr Shaw because of HOW she had Treated him...

But he ULTIMATELY may have been Responsible for her DEATH and so ONLY really Cares for himself.

People are BORN Innocent, its the Environment and Upbringing that Shapes who they BECOME.... if HITLER was brought up in another Country surrounded by Kind People then its UNLIKELY he would have became the TYRANT he was.

And so maybe IF say David had became Dr Shaws Families Personal Butler and was Factory Reset before he Spent say 20 Years with Dr Shaw, then maybe he would be KIND and similar to Dr Shaw... but then maybe some of Holloway would have also RUBBED OFF on him ;)

Regarding the OT... i think that IF you have a A.I that seems to have Emotion and Personality, and are Portrayed in a Good, Benevolent way and they come into Harm or a Situation of Peril, then i do think you can CONNECT and have Empathy to them.  I dont think they have to be Biological like Roy Batty to have some Empathy towards them.

But this can Differ Fan to Fan

It would seem those on Planet 4 go about Living their Day to Day Lives, it seems this CITY can Hold over a Million Engineers and it appears they ONLY inhabit the CITY (maybe there are some Engineers out on the Planet in VERY SMALL Numbers we just dont know).  And so IF these Engineers are like US and they can Procreate (which they seem to be able to) then IF they have been on Planet 4 for Hundreds of Thousands of Years of even Tens of Thousands of Years, then you have to Wonder about POPULATION BOOM!  We are nearly at 7.8B Now, and we HIT the ONE BILLION mark about 200 or so Years ago.

I Guess if we look at our Ancient Past then from when we had 100 Million to 250 Million it was Quite a Large Time Frame.   Also the Engineers may have a Culture that Restricts the Number of Off-Spring, maybe when they GET to a Certain Age they are TAKEN AWAY to then Self Sacrifice to Create New Life.

And we cant RULE-OUT that Certain Intervals then Ships will take Numerous Engineers to Migrate to other Worlds.  We also cant ASSUME that their Ships are MADE for just TWO Reasons... to SEED and Destroy...Certainly as FAR as the Horrors of LV-223.....  Nope!  I think the Juggernauts can have Many Functions, i also think it makes more SENSE that they are the Replacement for the Pebble Ships.

so YES maybe the Juggernauts are Military and the Engineers are Welcoming back the Military Folk.... but the Hanger had a Number of Juggernauts that were Parked in it.... and so maybe they DONT go and Expect their own Military to Bomb them...

I think we cant Overlook those Statues that Surround the Hanger, they make Little Sense for a Military Hanger, but Plenty if the Ships are USED to take Engineers to be Sacrificed to Create Life like the Pebble Ship was shown doing.

@MonsterZero

Your point is entirely emotionally logical and knits everyone together but Charlie and Elizabeth give the Mission cover as the great altruistic adventure sponsored and paid for by many. 

Most people like Weyland follow a simple rule never use your own money exclusively.

I also think the grandchild/family need dilutes the very powerful triangle of a father and two children, one robot one human. 

As this is a morality tale to have amongst others the daredevil risk-taker onboard representing one of the foibles of mankind is thematically correct. In my vision instead of the incautious gay man you have the naive enthusiastic amateur and instead of the know-all loudmouth you have the blue-collar fodder soldier which echos the original film and pays homage to ALIENS. 

There is the other issue of Yutani the great rival which Sir Peter masks his real intentions from covering his tracks. Rather than leave that threat implied I show that Yutani is involved through Furdik.  

On the idea of Meredith delivering The Moon that would make her wrong too. Two people suffer the ultimate hubris in this story Weyland and Shaw and they are thematically very important in David's journey. He is at the apex of an isosceles triangle just as Earth is in the heavens.

Shaw's healing of David is the single most important element of the story the person of faith heals the machine. She forgives David as Christ forgave mankind they did it in the name of a God that does not exist but both enable the future to survive and for David to peer through the hole in the roof and find "Heaven".

Your idea would work but undermines many other things I was trying to say.

If David had given Elizabeth the black goo drink. I think that might have worked better...More of a Ash angle. But he gave it to a nondescript character ( Charlie )   .... and the audience ( including myself ) responded with a big *meh*.....Hope he turns into a monster was the thought! Could of saved some screen time by just impregnating Shaw and get on with it.

David observing her C-section ( remotely ) would have been cool.

David's ambiguity is unsettling ...Do we like him? Or... Is he antagonist or protagonist?

Bishop and Ash are how it's done.

Peter Weyland is all powerful and I see little reason to take Charlie or Elizabeth along......There must have been a reason. Why would he share the glory with anyone? David and Jackson were all he really needed. If you told me where to locate the gold of the Incas, I'm hiring Indiana Jones and heading out without you.

I'd make Elizabeth, Weylands daughter. Gives a very good reason why she and Charlie are aboard. Vickers could remain as CEO ( unrelated to Weyland )

Peter has given Elizabeth everything wealth, education, power ......and in return she has left him without a grandchild. 

...But she has finally made good. Delivering to her father....LV-223.

*They NEVER EVER would Expect that their OWN would EVER do such a Thing!

.....

Yeah, Planet 4 is probably not a military target and doesn't offer much for pirates. Just a higher learning center. I live near a military base and don't expect any of the aircraft to dive bomb the runway.

I could see asteroid/comet protection for when they hibernate.

@BigDave

Charlie is caught up in all the main themes of the story and underpins more storytelling points than in the movie. 

1) In order that we understand the jeopardy of the Juggernaut reaching earth be shows the reader what would happen. The description of what is happening and what we experience is much more intimate and darker. There is also a scene where David, who rushes back from the Juggernaut too late, studies Charlies remains in the morgue and explains to the reader what was happening to Charlie. The irony of course is that he works out that Charlie was in the process of reconstruction, an upgrade something he has eight of so it is much like your graphic. 

2) His decision to reject that pathway and remain who he is through sacrifice then bleeds back into the other main theme and one that film watchers have known from the beginning that willing sacrifice is at the very core of creation. His penitential gesture as he dies plays right into the end of the story the moment when Elizabeth finally receives her final revelation.

Elizabeth

As a barren woman who is enunciated by the Mutagen but has a corrupted birth with Charlie's child, she is beginning her journey as Lilith. Like Lilith, she is the embodiment of femininity, strength and rebellion and when she arrives at Eden (though it is never called that, though that is its function) she believes she encounters Lilith and in one sense she does and believes herself to be Eve and because of what has happened to her she does have the power to restart creation. How the Mutagen affects her journey is for the reader but the essential point is she is lost and she has no idea what is the right course because her Abrahamic God does not exist, so where does she turn what is she supposed to do.

How will she find her waterfall moment and if she arrives there what should she do, because, in the end, God is Beyond Our Understanding? 

I have not Read you Work yet (i MUST though) but i am drawn to you going for what RS had said when he had said that Holloway was going to End Up like Fifield who in Turn would End Up like the Sacrificial Engineer.

Its a Case of in your Story is the Stage after Breakdown the same as the Sacrificial Engineer in the Waterfall?  Or Reconstructs like in the Concept above?

Dr Shaw maybe believes as she is DYING either she knows this Process will lead to her Breaking Down etc, or she thinks she is DYING so if i USE the Gift/Tool i could maybe CREATE a New Eden of LIFE from my Death?

But in Reality she is NOT Permitted to USE the Gift and what becomes of her Sacrifice is a ABOMINATION?

In Reality though the Pilot Chair Props are about the Same Size, and so our Prometheus Space Jockey is SMALLER than the our Space Jockey from ALIEN.

But this still means the 1979 Space Jockey would FIT in the same Chair.

Ridley Scott said about how Humans come in all Different Races... then WHY cant the Engineers?  Well i also say that IF we as Humans come in Different Sizes then WHY cant the  Engineers?

So our 7ft-8ft Basket Ball Players in the Engineers Society could mean we can have 9-10ft Engineers, and so if they SHOW us a 9-10ft Engineer who has a SUIT that FITS them and maybe we Accept something Happened to Cause this 10ft Suited Space Jockey to SWELL UP then indeed THAT would make the Scale to the Space Jockey more Accepting.

And so i would like to think the Space Jockey is a 10ft Entity/Being who maybe has Grown out of the Chair a Little (for some Reason) or they could give us a 12ft Being instead.   And if so then this BEING would be Best Shown to be ABOVE the Engineers in the Creation Layer Cake or another Sub-Creation of the Engineers.

I do Suspect that Ridley Scott would maybe thrown a Curve-ball it is David or a Sub-Creation of his though... but we MAY NEVER get to know or see that anymore.

Yes the Intention was for a  27ft Tall Space Jockey but this FAILS for the same Reasons that our Engineers in Prometheus are Plain to see they are NOT 10ft.

Ridley Scott like to use Actual Props/Sets and he does things to Create a Illusion of Scale that are UNDONE in other Shots... Example is

Using Camera Angles and having Ian Whyte (Engineer) Standing on a Platform thats at HIGHER LEVEL than Fassbender and Pearce are gives the Illusion that the Engineer is much more Taller. (seem like just under 9ft, when in Reality he was just over 7ft).

The Intended Height and Acceptance of the Space Jockey before the Prequels was 15ft (i actually think it was 13ft) and so when we STARTED on the Prequels our Engineers were INTENDED to be 12-15ft but Ridley Scott would NOT go and USE any kind of Effects to Create that Reality.

"it wouldn't make sense timeline wise and there were xenos found on other planets"

Well if we go by Video Games, and Comics then YEAH!

In Context to the Movies though, then it is Plausible and Intended to show us that before those Egg that David had Created on Planet 4 then there is NO other Xenomorphs in the Galaxy.  This comes from the PROBLEM of making it that David had Created the Xenomorph.

Is the Derelict the ONLY place there are Eggs (apart from Planet 4 and in Future maybe Origae-6?) well i would say if we ONLY go by the Movies then it makes SENSE that LV-426 was the ONLY place were they are Left....  (Games and Comics and Novels can Contradict the Franchise).

Regarding to a Synthetic being the FINAL PIECE of the JIGSAW that makes the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph, the PROBLEM we have then is HOW do you get to Thousands of Eggs?

They could maybe have it WHERE we see David (Space Jockey) would Chest Burst the FIRST of the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorphs who then gets down to the Cargo Hold (maybe the Acid Hole Origins) and then LAYS all of those Eggs.

But then you would have to ASK as to WHY and WHERE was David or the Space Jockey going with a SHIP that has NOTHING in the Cargo Hold!

The KICKER is to WHY is the Ship on LV-426?  If the Engineers would leave Planet 4 to go to Earth then what are the Chances it Passes LV-426?   If the Ship would First go to Origae-6 then thats even LESS likely to WHY it would NEED to be Near LV-426.

So the Logical Answer has to be that....

*The Ship was heading to LV-223 with the Eggs, before the Pilot was Infected and ONLY got as FAR as LV-426.

Which would mean the Xenomorph of Davids is Evolved to Bio-Mechanical prior.

*The Ship is leaving LV-223 with those Bio-Mechanical Eggs but ONLY gets as FAR as LV-426.

This seems the MOST Logical Explanation which would imply the Xenomorph becomes Evolved/Bio-Mechanical on LV-223 and is also MASS PRODUCED.

Yeah i think in Context to the PLOT then it would seem that the Engineers are just a Sub-Creation of something or someone ELSE we have NOT yet Seen?

Or Regardless this could be WHERE the Engineers had Originated from... this does-not mean that they have NOT gone and SET-UP other Colonies on other Worlds.

Regarding as to HOW Easy it was for David to do the Damage.. well its a Plot Convenience.  And the Writers seem to NOT give much Thought to Explain anything to make Sense.

The Covenant Crew had been Surprised that the Planet was NEVER picked up on any Surveys, this could IMPLY the Planet is HIDDEN by something, and so we are talking a Cloaking Tech more like STEALTH than say Klingon Birds of Prey ;)

There could be Technology on the Planet that is able to do this.... (Implied in the Earlier Drafts)

The Docking Scorpion Ship is Described as Border Control and so its likely that David was able to do something to gain Entry to Planet 4 (they seem to have NO kind of Intercept Technology but i can Explain this after).  We see that the Juggernaught seemed to Head to the Hanger where it was MET with the Docking Ship which then seemed to be Attempting to Dock with the Juggernaught.  You would think that the Docking Ship should be able to TAKE FULL CONTROL over the Juggernaught or Disable its Ability to Drop its Cargo.

The Engineers were SHOCKED to see the Ship had BEGAN to Bombard them... this Implies the Following.

*They NEVER EVER would Expect that their OWN would EVER do such a Thing!

*The Juggernauts either are NOT Permitted and NEVER go to Planet 4 with any Cargo or..... the JUGGERNAUT has a Different ROLE than as a Bomber.

*The Docking Ship should be able to Deactivate the Ships, but somehow our David found away around this.

*The Engineers are so NAIVE that they Control and keep Eye on their Creations and it NEVER EVER would occur to them that WITHOUT the Help/Knowledge Passed by the Engineers then all their Creations remain at a Technological Level that Earth was Thousands of Years ago... and THUS what a HUBRIS that was for them!

I think the Last Point is a Valid one and maybe WHY they dont have Many Protective Measures because they ASSUME that ONLY their own Kind has the Technology to Traverse the Stars and their STEALTH TECH that Hides their World from being DETECTED is GOOD ENOUGH to Protect them.

Another Interesting thing is the Bombardment seemed to be HITTING some kind of Invisible Shield... but this FAILED..... a Explanation for this could be that David had learned the Engineers Tech/Software and was able to make a Virus/Hack that then would DEACTIVATE the Protective Systems.

This becomes a Problem if we look at the Deleted Scene and see the Hanger has Juggernaughts and we have to ASK.... WHY has David NOT gone to take them?

The Answer has to be they have been Deactivated... and the Logical Solution would be that the Destruction/Damage to the Scorpion Docking Ship had Rendered it USELESS and this SHIP is what is NEEDED in order to Activate the Juggernauts on that Planet... 

Of-course when we watch ONLY the Theatrical Cut, we cant Conclude there are other SHIPS on this World so we could ASSUME that David has NO options to Leave.

Yeah. Planet 4 is extremely underwhelming if it is their homeworld. Easily wiped out by a single juggernaut!?...No this was attempt to end the Engineers story line.

If they originated on planet 4,  then I'm okay with the understated design. 

> he Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

According to the official wiki, they are rougly 25 feet (8 meters) tall, and around 2 meters wide. I could very well see them being a failed sub-creation of the engineers that might have been used by david to try and create a "drone" to infect other worlds.

I personally dislike the idea that a species was directly involved with creating the engineers as it would contradict the previous 2 movies

Also to add, the space jockey cannot be david as it wouldn't make sense timeline wise and there were xenos found on other planets, which means that david had to infect other planets with the xenos first, and the fact that the ship has xeno eggs makes that unlikely. And the obvious height difference, i mean 

This image speaks for itself. However it could be an ai sent by david

I think the combination of both is going to happen, he uploads his AI into some server or the WY systems and then uses a facehugger to impregnate his former body. And thus we will get the classical xeno that we know. Or he uses parts of his andriod body to upgrade the xenos and task them with their goals, which is much more likely. Either way, i don't think he will truly "die" 

I think the creatures on planet 4/paradise are a sub-creation of the engineers, similar to humans and (possibly) the space jockeys. The real home(s) of the engineers probably have millions if not billions of cities, and most likely high defense. I mean, david was allowed there with his ship 100% undisturbed. And they "engineers" looked like they were waiting for someone to come back. I think that david and shaw were trying to find the home planet of the engineers but found planet4/paradise instead. I talked about this in other threads if you want to go into more details on the "sub creation"

In my revision, there is no trilobite but the embryo born of Elizabeth and Charlie's DNA the latter of which had been invaded by the Mutagen. What we do not know yet is the broader effect of the Mutagen on Elizabeth. Ridley indicated to Noomi in Sydney Elizabeth was dying of the mutagen acknowledging there were downstream consequences. If she 'lives' what might be the consequences?  

"She continued to kick the silt with her boots. All the certainties of her life had been shattered. Her faith lay in ruins. The only certainty: her parents had died empty, meaningless, deaths. She lowered her head and looked across the river and its two tributaries. It was time for her, too, to make a choice, to choose a course.

Her thoughts were ambitious, expansive; some would have said full of pretentious self-righteousness. To her, this was a sad desolate place where the Ritual of Creation had been abandoned. Yet she knew she had it within her to renew and restart the great work. That was why she had been brought to this place, why she had been returned from death; to remake Paradise."

If you chose to hold to the notion that going forward Michael and Noomi were co-leads then you can fulfil Noomi's wish to see what would happen if Elizabeth fell. It not only fits the narrative but it places her right at the epicentre of what the story is about what do you do if you have the power of creation within your hands. What can go wrong why does it go wrong and why were two barren lost characters brought to this place to find out the truth of what had happened. It might be in the lap of the Gods? 

I think what we see with Planet 4 is the Home to the Engineers, However this is maybe NOT the ONLY such Home, it is LIKELY the Engineers have been to MANY WORLDS and while they may have Seeded Humanoid Life on Many Worlds i do think the Engineers would also Populate other Worlds.

Could David had taken Dr Shaw to another WORLD? Maybe it Certainly is a Coincidence that Paradise is SO CLOSE to Earth.  But this was just for Plot Convenience to get more Humans to Arrive (The Covenant Ship).

The Reason that David had made this Journey is that Dr Shaw wanted to go to where the Engineer had Informed our David where he came from... which David had said we would call Paradise.  I think Fans seem to be Caught Up to think that Paradise is Heaven and so its where the IMMORTAL GODS would be.

But in Context to the Engineers Plot, even from Inception we are NOT dealing with a IMMORTAL RACE, a Race who wanted to Extend their Lives then YES... a Race who may want to become IMMORTAL then YES.

Something we to Consider is the Engineers (both LV-223 and Planet 4) are LIKELY to NOT be the TOP LAYER of the Creation Cake.

Planet 4 is maybe where the Engineers (or just those Planet 4 kind if they wish to Explore it Further) had Originated from.

Biblically then Paradise is the Location of the Garden of Eden, which is the Cradle of Civilization, it is a Walled City were Adam/Eve where Created and Watched Over by the Cherubim Angels.

And so in that Context then Paradise is NOT where GOD comes from or Resides. And so if WE come from the Engineers, then in the Mythos of Creation then its likely Planet 4 is where say Adam/Eve came from who could be the FIRST of the Engineers (Planet 4 kind).  And so those who Created the Engineers would come from somewhere ELSE.

Planet 4 has a LOT in Common with the Garden of Eden we seem to have a Planet where the Inhabitants are Confined to just a SINGLE Location... this CITY. Just as Adam/Eve were Confined to the Garden of Eden.

The other Aspect of Paradise in Mythos/Religion is a Place that our Gods would Dwell and were the Worthy/Honorable would be able to LIVE FOREVER.  In some Mythos/Religion this means they will be Joined Time to Time by their Gods, in other its just a Place there WORTHY SOULS will END UP.

But in Context to the Franchise we can-not get Drawn to ANY Specific Religion or Mythos and to NOT take it too Literal, and so NOW that Dr Shaw is Dead, she is NOT going to AWAKEN in Paradise and be Greeted by Christ. And so instead we have to look at COMMON THEMES and take them as HOW they have been Interpreted by Ancient Cultures.

And so in that Context the Engineers likely SEED various Worlds, they go to Interact and Visit their Creations and those that are DEEMED to be WORTHY may see some of them TAKEN AWAY and to Planet 4 to then Mix their Genetics into the Gene-pool on Planet 4.

This would FIT with how RS had Indicated that while there are Many Different Races of Human (Skin Colors and other Slight Differences from Continent to Continent) he said WHY cant the same be for the Engineers. He also said the Engineers are NOT a Race but a Civilization.

The Engineer Culture is one of Basic Needs, and so they LIVE just like Monks do and the Amish, in those Cultures they SURVIVE... they dont NEED to have the Internet, Smart Phones, TV's, Consoles or other Forms of Entertainment... their Culture seems to see NO NEED for these things.

But it would seem they would USE some Technology for where its NEEDED in Regards to their CULT/RELIGION and way of LIFE.  And so they LIKELY have some Technology (seems Evidence of this) that can Generate Power that they would USE to Light/Heat up their Homes etc.  Maybe Provide Clean Water? (But they maybe also USE some Primitive Methods too).

They likely Generate Power and Technology to Protect their World?  Maybe to Effect their Climate?  The Earlier Idea was they had Technology that had Acted to Protect and Shield the Planet and Act like some Cloaking Technology where their World can remain HIDDEN unless you arrive within its Location.

The Engineers could have MANY such Worlds... when  i look at the Hall of Heads then it kind of Reminds me that THIS PLACE is a Meeting Place of the Various Elders, like where you would HOST like a G7 or G8 Summit on Earth.  And so Each of those Elders/Heads could have came from their OWN Place in the Galaxy and they Arrive to Planet 4 from Time to Time to have Meetings.

PS: so to go back to Adam and Eve, i guess what i am saying is IF they had NEVER SINNED then they would have Bore Children and Grand Children and SO ON and SO ON!

Who would have been Allowed to Remain in the Garden of Eden/Walled City, and likely a Civilization would have Formed in the Garden that is Watched Over by Gods Protector Angels (Cherubim) and where GOD could Visit from Time to Time.

And so Adam and Eves Kingdom could ONE day had become like the CITY on Planet 4 and i think its to look at those Engineers on Planet 4 being like Adam and Eve if they had NOT gone and Sinned...

Or as their Replacements to Live in Paradise who have NOT gone and Sinned against their Creator.

To me it comes down to:

What were Elizabeth and David trying to find? The Engineers homeworld or just some living Engineers? 

Did the ship automatically take them to planet 4...or did David plot the course?

Planet 4 could be an outpost or a family home....Immortal beings should have enormous families. Planet 4 could be a summer home for all we know...their sparse 'cabin in the woods'.

If my family were immortal...I'd have billions of years to accumulate storage sheds, space ships, bunch of stuff....my junk would probably cover the planet! lol!