To be honest, I'm not very excited for this game to come, because a lot of fans like me have waited for a true Alien: Isolation sequel, not the Blackout mobile and not from Aliens: Colonial Marines. But I hope this will be better than CM, at least. Until then, I will be watching the arrival of the game, which by the way seems to be interesting.

That Marvel Alien is like a tasteless hotchpotch of poorly mixed alien leftovers, I can hardly think of something more uninspiring. 

It seems the end is nearer than ever.

Shaw came to life and set out to destroy humanity?

I might check this out.

There are a bunch of drones and xenomorph warriors there. There is also the runner alien, Hammerpede, and the covenant xenomorphs evident.

And then there's this.

Damn I haven't seen this movie in forever since the 90's when I was a little kid! I think this was my first Lance Henriksen movie (or was it Terminator?) before I watched Aliens and the TV show Millennium 

I’d not heard of this movie, so I googled it and found this video trailer.

20 seconds in, there’s a string of 8 notes that occur in the “Life” theme of Prometheus. That’s too much of a coincidence to be pure chance.

Marc Streitenfeld composed most of the score for Prometheus, but the “Life” track, which is most closely associated with the movie, was composed by Harry Gregson-Williams. Most likely Harry saw Survival Quest at some point, and the notes stuck in his head somewhere.

It wouldn’t be anything to do with Ridley Scott giving a nod to the Survival Quest movie, though. It doesn’t look like a great movie to me.

"AND NOBODY ASKS WTF IS GOING ON HERE AND WHY THERE SEEMS TO BE A (now extinct) THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD HUMAN CIVILIZATION ON THIS PLANET)"

Its a Good Point, it is STRANGE that No-One Questioned this Especially ORAM... However i think a BIG Problem with AC was they was trying to FIT so much in a 2 Hour Movie and so a LOT of stuff could NOT have been Explained or Fitted in.   The Movie Needed another 40 min to Explain some Parts.. and give more Coverage to Certain things... and so YES a lot had to be Sacrificed.

As far as Version/Beginning A) or B) i think that BOTH are Valid and Interesting ways to have EXPANDED on the Franchise/Agenda and History of the Engineers ;)

@Nathan

I think its a Good Point the Engineers did seem to be RUNNING from something, we Certainly see they was ATTEMPTING to get to the Big Head Room for some Reason, and some of the Engineer were looking over their Shoulders.  With the Sound that we heard we could ASSUME this was something like the Deacon.

I think we have to look at what the Black Goo was seen doing, which would be that it seemed to MUTATE LIFE to take on some Xenomorph/Deacon Traits... could they had been Running from something like a Engineer Fifield?  Could one of the Docked Ships had some Organism on board?

The other thing we see Happen is the Goo BREAKS down a Infected Person into Essentially Soup/Particles.  We see the Engineer BODY was HOLLOW.. some others Appeared as so too...  The HEAD however was Preserved and MAYBE something in the Big Head Room has a WAY of HALTING the Pathogen....

We also CANT be 100% sure of TWO things..

1) That a Deacon requires infected Sperm or simply the Pathogenic Worms to Infect a Female Egg Cell or just Needs the Womb to Gestate. Or if the Pathogenic Worms can Gestate in a Engineer and Produce a Slightly Different Deacon than Dr Shaws Trilobite... maybe the Infection  just Creates a Deacon-like Beast in the Engineers like how the Neomorph Spores behaved.

2) The Hammerpedes have NOT been encountered before and have some way to Procreate in a Host, this would GIVE a Good Reason for WHY it attacked Milburn in such a WAY and could be  GOOD REASON for WHY we have Chest Busted Engineer Cryo-Pods.

The Engineer could have tried to Resist for a Number of Reasons, such as ONLY a Few are Selected to Sacrifice to Create the Horrors on LV-223, or he could have been ONE who had Sabotaged LV-223 but the easiest way to look at it is that he HAD to Fight Off the Trilobite so that he could Continue with his Plan to GO TO EARTH after he gets his hands on Dr Shaw First.

"dark angels" of the book of Enoch, creating a twisted version of Biblical sacrifice and resurrection"

Something like what you Put in that Paragraph could WORK as for what is going on ;)

Aliens is one of my favorite movies of all time.

Alien3 doesn’t come close. The special effects with certain alien scenes looked really bad. I liked the movie, but it’s nowhere near as good as Aliens.

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I loved this movie. My only disappointment being that it wan't scary.

I randomly came across this movie (yes 3 years after you posted this,) came to the same conclusion and Googled it, just to find myself here, with the only other person online to make this connection. The theme from Prometheus is absolutely lifted from Survival Quest. Oddly both Lance Henriksen and Mark Rolston were also in Aliens, so it might just be Ridley Scott's nod to Don Coscarelli. 

In my humble opinion RS has ruined his revival-attempts of the Alien Universe with Alien: Covenant. It was just to confusing, it added more questions while answering no questions from Prometheus and it was just implausible (the Covenant Crew lands on an exoplanet, finds a forsaken city filled with humanoid corpses, enters some kind of cathedral with human-looking stone heads AND NOBODY ASKS WTF IS GOING ON HERE AND WHY THERE SEEMS TO BE A (now extinct) THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD HUMAN CIVILIZATION ON THIS PLANET). My suspension of disbelieve just couldn't handle it...

After Prometheus (before AC ruined it) I was thinking about similar things like you. You have the Engineers: Maybe you hint about something/someone that has created them but you need not answer who, how and why; maybe keep it a secret or maybe just say, that the Engineers evolved naturally. BUT YOU NEED TO KEEP THE ALIEN A MYSTERY, A LOVECRAFTIAN THING FROM NOWHERE AND NOWHEN - THE PERSONIFIED COSMIC HORROR. The perfect story would have been something like this (there are two versions/beginnings which lead to the same point; I like both of them so I will present both):

Version/Beginning A) The Engineers' civilization awakens. They have found clues on their homeworld that they were created by something/someone now gone: the Progenitors. They revear these unknown beings, found a religion upon this insight and become very religious. They develop FTL spacetravel. They set out to find their creators but even after thousands of years they cannot find them. They seem to have vanished without a trace. So they then start to honor them by doing alike: Flying through the universe, terraforming planets and seeding them with life, teaching their creations the Engineers' ways, hoping that they fulfill the Progenitors will and that they would approve of the Engineers deeds.

Version/Beginning B) The Engineers have evolved naturally. They fly through the univers for thousands of years, searching for life but never finding any trace of life. They conclude that they're the only life in the universe and that their emergance is nothing short of a miracle - maybe "god's will". They think that life itself is what's to be revered (and because they are the only living beings in the universe, they mean themselfs are to be reveared). So they set out on their religious mission to seed the universe with life.

Choose which beginning you like most, now they come to the same point: The Enginners are seeding the universe for generation after generation. But then, on that one fateful day, for the first time in their tens of thousands of years ongoing religious mission, they find a planet with life on it! And not only that: These lifeforms obviously are superiour even to the Engineers themselfs!!! They find the (original version of the) Xenomorph. You may hint now at the fact that they also have been created or you leave that up for debate. Anyways, the Engineers, whom revear life itself, realize that they have made a mistake. They have seeded thousands of worlds with life in their own image but now they find this superior species. Actually THESE BEINGS would have deserved to be spread throughout the universe, not the Engineer's homeworld's flora and fauna.

So the Engineers conclude that they would now have to do the obvious thing: They would have to do justice to this lifeform by speading it too throughout the universe. So the Engineers take these specimens to one their seeded planets after another, setting them out there, letting the two faunas compete for natual selection would undoubtfully show which lifeform would prevail. And sure enough, on every single one of these planets the Xenomorph fauna takes over.

So the engineers now conclude that they would have to do the final step: Once they would have been done, once they would have infected the last one of their seeded planets, they themselfs would no longer have the right to rule over this species for it is superior to the Engineers. They would have to merge with the Xenomorphs; include Xenomorph DNA into their own DNA - the next step of evolution: a great convergence.

So while they are infecting one planet after the other, they start to incoprorate Xenomorph DNA into their own DNA - maybe these are the Engineers we see on LV 223. And sure enough maybe there forms a faction amont the Engineers that doesn't want to take part in this convergence - maybe these are the Planet 4 Engineers for their whole appearance and culture seems to have no biomechanical elements at all. Maybe they are the ones who sabotaged the installation on LV 223. Maybe they are the ones who created life on earth, keeping it a secret from the convergence faction. Maybe ca. 2000 years ago the convergence faction finds out about earth. This would be an explanation for the fact that despite the Engineers on LV 223 planning to head towards earth 2000 years ago, earth was visited by Engineers afterwards (in Prometheus you can see that in 620 CE the Mayans were visited). So there HAVE TO BE at least two factions: one benevolent and one hostile towards mankind - although the latter one would not be actually hostile in my story but rather they would be convinced that humanity too WOULD HAVE TO take part in the great convergence. So they would argue that they would do mankind a favor by uplifting it to the next step in evolution; they, in a perverse way, are also "benevolent" towards mankind.

I know that this story doesn't fit everything we've seen in Prometheus and AC but like I said I think this should have been the path RS should have chosen. Making David the creator of the Xenomorph is a catastrophy for it robs the Xenomorph of its strangeness AND ALIENNESS.

Thanks for reading :)

Free for all 5: Friday The 13th V: The New beginning. Not actually Jason.

Not bad grounds for research. Mainly I had to point out what is still the most reviled Alien film (I'm a fan personally) that isn't called Requiem has this bizarre and obviously unintentional legacy of coming up with some go for broke ideas before others did. I like Resurrection. Salvation and Jurassic World are OK at best. The Matrix 4 could go with way. Maybe Resurrection influenced that bizarre and pointless clone plot line in Fallen Kingdom too...

Instead of humor, it may actually be the perfect ground for research.

First, I will say that exceptions are everywhere, but in most cases you can see the similarities and highlight the rule.

1) OG. First parts of films. Perhaps these are not ideal films, but they are made with all possible soul, because the creators did not know - will there be an opportunity to make a sequel? They also have a complete plot and idea. Expamples: Alien, Terminator, Jurassic Park, Matrix, Robocop; or, if we take franchises that are measured not by individual films, but by whole triquels - Star Wars Original Trilogy, Lord of the Rings trilogy (part of middle-earth franchise).

2) Sequels. In general, they don't have to be sequels, they can be prequels or sidequels. In any case, they are made right after the OG. Typically, these films are more ambitious, bloated and polished. Perhaps they lose a piece of the author's enthusiasm or atmosphere for the sake of the box office. They may be "softer" compared to the originals, but that does not make them worse overall. Examples: Aliens, Terminator 2, Jurassic Park 2, Matrix 2, Robocop 2; or Star Wars Prequel Trilogy and Hobbit trilogy.

3) Triquels. These are perhaps the weakest films in the franchises. Everyone has known this for a long time. The reasons for this: running out of ideas or laziness and the desire for easy money on a popular name. Very often these films destroy everything that was created before them and, in general, can ruin the franchise. Of course, there are exceptions, but they are rare. Examples: Alien 3, Terminator 3, Jurassic Park 3, Matrix 3, Robocop 3, Halloween 3; and, of course, Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.

4) The fourth films are very often really a new beginning, resurrection, rebirth, reboot - call it what you want. Sometimes these films try to continue the triquels, sometimes they try to cancel them. Sometimes they come out good, sometimes they don't. Unlike the mostly bad triquels, the fourths can be called "dubious". Examples: Alien: Resurrection, Terminator: Salvation, Robocop reboot, Jurassic World, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Tremors 4; possibly Matrix 4.

5) Fifths of the films are free fall territory. You can expect anything. Good things, bad things. New ideas, old ideas. Continuation or reboot. Quality also defies calculation. Examples: Prometheus, Terminator: Genisys, Jurassic Word 2, Tremors 5.

There's a lot of potential to tell something great between David and Shaw. I doubt we'll ever see it though.

@Thoughts_Dreams

My Topic you tried to Comment on has been FIXED NOW.. I will respond in time ;)

Going back to the OT...

Then i think that INDEED the Prequels have NOT gone down to well for the Most Part and Certainly with the Revelations of Alien Covenant, the kind of Set-up it leaves and the things it had to Sacrifice/Brush under the Carpet.

It appears that Disney and co want to get back to Basics and TRY to resurrect what they FELT made the ALIEN Franchise what it was... and i do Suspect that means anything relating to the Derelict Mystery and Space Jockey would be LEFT ALONE.

So i think they are looking that you have to have the Franchise about the ALIEN aka Xenomorph, its a Question of HOW they are going to Proceed....

Blomkamps Alien 5 and Hill/Giler Alien V both seem to be a Retcon of Alien 3 by becoming Alternative Alien 3.....maybe the Hill/Giler one could even had removed Aliens but i doubt it as that would cause a UPROAR!

I think there are other ways you could BRING the Xenomorph back, i do think that IF you stick with how it was then i just cant see them PULLING OFF say 2-3 Movies without the Beast becoming Stagnant... unless the PLOT can Uplift them or be a Path to something else.... but i am NOT sure we may see any Set-Up to bring back the Engineers... but who knows..

I think down the LINE we will see a Retcon of the History and Origins compared to what the Prequels had shown...

Test

hox

Maybe this schematic could help?

@Thoughts_Dreams

I mean Anchor as in like the Basis of a Story and so sometimes Certain Themes are what become the Basis of the Story... maybe i used the Wrong choice of Word ;)

Test

"This isn't to say that we need to go back there because maybe those things exist in other places?"

I think when we had Prometheus then THIS was what was opened up....   Surely the Engineers had NEVER been working on stuff on LV-223 and at the First Attempt to LOAD UP to go off to Earth they suffered a Outbreak?

If they had Seeded Mankind across the Galaxy or similar Species, maybe 2000+ Years ago they AIMED to NOT only attack Earth but other Worlds?

So i am saying maybe we cant ASSUME that they had NOT managed to Successfully Deploy the Goo on other Worlds.

I think also Regardless WHO Created and WHEN those Eggs where Placed on the Derelict, can we ASSUME the Derelict was the ONLY such Ship with that Cargo?  Maybe there could be others?  What becomes of a WORLD that the Xenomorph has been Successfully Deployed to... HOW MANY years would it take for them to Evolve, or once their Limited Life Span is UP then all that remains is EGGS?

Also i think with Alien Engineers it was indicated the Engineers had created Many Variants of Xenomorph and the  Ship had Numerous Cargo Holds and Each had a Different Variant.

In Prometheus we saw the Effects of the Black Goo, the PAY OFF and Money Shot was the Deacon at the End which did seem to look like the Mural.  The Fresco Creature also looked DIFFERENT....

And so i dont think we can ASSUME say that Every Complex on LV-223 has the Exact Same Goo, and that each Complex has the same Mural and the same kind of Experiments.

I agree that AC was a mistake with David as the Creator of the Xenomorph, and even if he Created something else i think again some Fans would NOT be interested in a Prequel Series that PUTS him at the Center... if they also went that route you would have some Fans who maybe would expect some Answers to LV-426.

But those kinds of things could have been LOOSELY answered in other ways... but ALAS.

I think the Main Hope for a Sequel was to Explore the Engineers more and OPEN the Door to expand with them and other Worlds/Creations... but it seems that DOOR is somewhat SHUT with AC.... and the Story has Written itself into a Corner...

I hate to have to admit this but in Hindsight the Prequels were a MISTAKE... you should keep the Space Jockey and Derelict a Mystery.... because when you Choose to Explore those things, your NEVER going to Answer them to what EVERY FAN had Imagined or Wanted to see.

However if we went back to 2009 and they Scrapped doing a Prequel.... and so we would NEVER go and Answer the Origins or at least HOW/WHY the Space Jockey had those EGGS...

Then it would have been a case of WHERE would you have taken the Franchise without Conflicts in light of Alien Resurrection?  (WHY do they end up Clone Ripley to obtain a Specimen 200 Years latter... surely that means after ALIENS then Humanity could Discover NO others).

BD:

I couldn't reply to the topic that you linked to so I write it here.

You have the prisoners in Alien 3, what if we have an episode or a TV-series where WY has taken over big parts of

1. the juridical system. This doesn't need to include the Xenomorph at all.

The thought of it would be like this:

Alien ―> Alien 3 with prison and WY ―> Prison corporate owners expands to ―> a world where corporations to a large extent write the laws, put it into ―> alien franchise and see what you'll get.

Maybe you could see some meetings of the WY but you'll never see those that are at the top. You could maybe see the doors of their rooms and the names but you never seem them, while things happen behind closed doors that affect us all. They become like shadows that you see but you never see the person.

1. More about the marines and what they do, maybe they have been involved in other things than just what we saw in Aliens? What if they are contracted when they are needed so they get to work for both private and government owned organizations.

1. Have a Engineers based episode, a bit about their society, religion, governments, DNA-mixing. Who knows whart kind of society, warfare, religion, government strutcture that they have. You can have about digfferent parts of them in different episodes.

1. Androids and what role that they play, maybe in Weyland company or Yutani. Maybe there is a new company that is on the rise that rivals them? You can have androids in corporate espionage, warfare, and so on. The human journey and how it affects us must be in the center of it, it isn't about the androids per se but they have an important part. There has got to be a balance, something that AC failed with.

1. More into detail of how aspace colony would work, think Hadley's hope and go from there. We saw bits of it but maybe go a bit more into details about how these colonies are established. Who runs it, how that organization is, how decisions are made where to build them, and so on. You don't have to use Hadley's hope or WY but keep it in mind and go from there.

I would like to see new worlds and new civilizations kind of like Star Trek or Star Wars. Not to say that Alien will ever be that that large but you can look for inspiration.

BD

What do you mean when you say the anchor of the story? Not sure what that means. Call was interesting and how autons could work, but she wasn’t that well written although. Ryder is a good actress, but the material wasn’t good. Yup alien 3 was the last good alien movie, the rest have just had interesting parts in them and although they shouldn’t be ignored that isn’t enough.

Yes the Xenomorph has been show often, but that doesn’t mean that it’s alright for David to make a better version. I am one of those fans that would react with a “F that!”. You are right though when you say that the Xeno has been shown very often so they should have different monsters and just let the Xeno-creature have a cameo but didn’t they ruin that with Alien Covenant though? Having it being killed that easily on the crane was lame, it was like Scott just threw it in there so it was disrespectful. Maybe if that was a Xeno at the crane then maybe that wasn’t a perfect Xenomorph but that the Engineers could take parts of that and make a better version like a Xeno 2.0, I could accept that. When David said that he made the perfect organism bla bla bla, I guess that he was delusional. I dislike the idea of him creating the ultimate creature so I try to save the story by thinking that.

I am not interested in David, I would like to see what experiments that the Engineers did or at least some of them. Maybe they tried to show that via David but it isn't the same thing if it's told by a crazy robot/android because it's not that interesting by going that route. Seeing the science-labs and weapon-making by the Engineers would have been awesome or at least let us see some of it, being hinted at.

Seeing more of the things from LV-223 could have been interesting. This isn't to say that we need to go back there because maybe those things exist in other places? Janek said something about a military installation and even though it was just a guess by him it could hint at the possibility that they have those things on other planets. By bringing in the Engineers they open up the franchise so who knows how far they are spread. Planet 4 probably isn't the only place where they exist or at least shouldn't from a story point of view.

The horrors of mankind and the Xeno, we kind of saw that in Alien Resurrection. I’m not sure if I’m that interested in having a movie about that. Bringing David into that is bad enough (and also AR) so don't make it worse. Having suggestions is fine but not all of them are good.

Maybe you don’t need to have many ties to the Xeno? You could have some to make people see how they connect, like better than Prometheus but not as much as in the rest.

Alien as in unknown and with some ties to the Xeno could maybe work. It’s about bringing the mystery back and I think that the Engineers did that to an extent. Both the SJ and the Xeno are interesting. To me the Xeno came from some unknown part of the universe, that’s what made it interesting.

“... you can EXPAND the ALIEN Franchise to be about ALIEN WORLDS and Encounters that Do-Not have to be about our Standard Xenomorphs.”

I totally agree, I just don't think that they have made a good job with the prequels. The environments are interesting but there is so much else that just isn't. I have never considered you disliking the Xeno but I understand what you say about showing it too much, I agree with that.

“so you would maybe have to be CAREFUL as to HOW FAR you Steer Away from the Space Jockey from ALIEN.”

Yeah, but there could be a balance it’s just that they got to find out what that balance is. I think that the Engineers and Space-Jockey connection was a good start as an idea it’s just that Prometheus lacked in other ways. Making it about David was bad because they kind of ruined many things.

The space-pirate thing that was in Resurrection is something that you could bring back. I like the idea but not how it was executed in Alien Resurrection. Maybe if you have better writing and a better execution then it could work.

Maybe they could have the Xeno as a cameo, but not more than that.

I think that they can develop the black good into something interesting.This is something that the prequels did right although AC messed it up a bit. You got to add new things otherwise it gets stale I agree with Scott there it’s just that he added things that were meh (at least the David story).

Going back to new ideas and new stories might not a be bad because the prequels became what they did. I would like to see new monsters, more about the Engineers, new life-forms (humanoid or not) look at Star Wars for example although it can't be as big. You can probably not make it as financially big but you can introduce more planet and life-forms.

I think looking at the BROADER things within the Franchise then YES we have more than Ripley and Xeno's.

So you could do SPIN OFF as far as TV Shows.... but then its CATCH 22 as the ALIEN Prefix would give the Show the Recognition/Marketing but on the FLIP SIDE it may become Expected to have some Xenomorph Links...

I do think the Franchise has enough you could COVER but its a case of getting Fans to look at it being SET in the same Universe and that it will NOT connect to ALIEN as in those Eggs.  So a Anthology Series could WORK...

Its WHY i made this TOPIC... ALIEN CHRONICLES.

I think i can see WHY it was that RS wanted to do something Different with the Prequels.. it was supposed to be SET in the same Universe but a SPIN OFF that would STEER AWAY from ALIEN and the Eggs/LV-426

I think Alien Covenant was a MISTAKE and a Movie that i think has Limited what you can do NEXT and as FAR as Discovering more about the Engineers History and WHAT they are up to apart from Creating Horrific Bio-Weapons. I cant see many takers for a Sequel to AC that would be about David and what he wants to Create if it would NOT be about the Xenomorphs... seems the Prequels are DEAD IN THE WATER at Present.

I think Prometheus was Partially to Blame in that it was NEVER really as Satisfying Bridge to ALIEN in that we had ONE aspect that links to ALIEN and another that Expands the Franchise...

I feel in Hindsight they should have made TWO sequels to Prometheus..... one that goes back to LV-223 that is more a Alien Engineers that will give more clues to ALIEN and have Xenomorps or Similar and give RISE to HOW we got Special Order 937.

Thus allowing another Sequel to goo off FAR FAR away with David and Dr Shaw and STEER AWAY from ALIEN.

You could have UPLIFTED the Alien Franchise and allowed more Avenues to make ALIEN Movies... while on the other any SPIN OFF about Creation, other Worlds and Engineers etc would NOT be Shackled down to ALIEN.

I think its kinda back to the DRAWING BOARD NOW and it would be Interesting to see WHAT kind of Direction they take... we have a Rumored Movie, but also a Confirmed TV Series which BOTH seem to be getting back to the Xenomorph.

It will be interesting to see HOW they handle this and if we can MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN ;)

I think you raise some Good Points as Certainly the Procreation of the Xenomorph that Requires a HOST does leave the Beast with a Vulnerability and i would say that YES if we explored other Evolving ways of Procreation and indeed if YOU go and Evolve the Xenomorph too much then YES... you could END UP with a Starship Troopers.

The point i was making with Starship Troopers was based on if we went to a Action Heavy set  of Movies, so you have some World, some Ship or some Facility where you have Xenomorphs that get out of Control, we see Numerous Xenomorphs on the Rampage and some Military/Mercs are sent in to CLEAN UP if we repeat this often then we are kind of doing a Starship Troopers BUG HUNT...

Now dont get me WRONG i thought that Starship Troopers was a Good Popcorn Flick but its the kind of thing for ME at least that the more we have Sequels that are essentially the Same it becomes purely repetitive Popcorn...

Same with Friday 13th.... a Classic for a FEW of them but then its the same thing over and over and because Jason just goes around Killing there is NOTHING much as FAR as Depth to his Character... if we had Multiple Jasons then you just  kinda have a Zombie Flick.... Mindless/Single Minded Killer.

Which to be Fair is HOW the Xenomorph was in ALIEN and ALIEN 3, the ALIEN DC with the Egg Morph gave us a Reason for its Actions.

I kinda agree with RS about how we got to see the Beast a LOT and by the TIME we got AVPR it became a bit of a Mockery of what was ONE of the most ICONIC SCI-FI Monsters of all Time....

Sadly the same can be said with other Franchises in that the MORE you see it, the MORE sequels then you RUN the RISK of NOT being able to Recapture that ORIGINAL... its something that can Happen with other kinds of Franchise/Characters too.

But then i can also see the IF IT ANT BROKE DONT FIX concept... sometimes Trying something DIFFERENT does not work.... Halloween 3 anyone?

Regarding HOW much you Change... i think that you always have to STILL keep Close to the Original... the Deacon, Hammerpede, Trilobite we could all see a Connection...the Neomorph likewise....  i think you should NOT try and Change something TOO MUCH ;)

I mean if say Alien R what we got was Ripley Clones that Mutated to like Fifield but Bleed/Spit Acid.. and they Procreate by Passing on a Virus to make more Mutant Fifield like Monsters and we had NO EGGS, NO Xenos/Queen.

Then i think that would be STEERING too FAR away from the ALIEN so to speak... i do think eventually you may have to Change things up a BIT though....

for example....

*What Happens when a Human Company/Science/Military gets to OBTAIN a Xenomorph and Contain it?  like WHAT would have been NEXT on the USM AURIGA if the Xenomorph would NOT have escaped etc?

Purely just use them as Killing Machines? would they have to Modify them or find something that they can CONTROL them with?

*What if we go to a World where the Xenomorphs have Overrun..... do we just come across THOUSANDS of Eggs has their is NO HOSTS LEFT?  How do you expand on the Xenomorph... would they Evolve, can they obtain something more than essentially Giant Space Termites?

But again as you mentioned you can RUN the Risk of Turning the Xenomorph and ALIEN into Starship Troopers... while you could have the Potential for them to be like the Warhammer TYRANIDS.. which were based off the Xenomorph... this Species in Warhammer had in the 90s Evolved into essentially Starship Troopers.

*Do you look at what other HORRORS the Black Goo Creates? what becomes of a World that had been Infected say after 50 years, 100 years?  Do we explore other Engineered Experiments that may have came from LV-223 all those years ago prior to the Outbreak?

I think if we go for a MOVIE or TV Show then i think you will have to LINK/CONNECT back to the ALIEN in some way... either you Eventually introduce something similar, or you BEGIN with it and then introduce something New.

Or again it comes down to ASKING do you Stick to what you had BEFORE... and dont Change it at all but then its a Case of can you make 2-3 more Movies and UPLIFT the Franchise..

In general, I just wish there were no space amoebas, slugs and spiders around. If you are looking for something new, then this "new" should be new not only for the Alien franchise, but in general for the sci-fi horror genre. 

This is a lot of work and, perhaps, there will not be many results, but it is better than worn to holes monsters in other films.

I think the main point here is not "how long" we can see facehuggers before they get bored. And the difficulty is not that it would not slide into a monotonous slasher or action. tbh, I love the Friday 13.

No need to worry. The Alien will never turn into Starship Troopers-like (also very good movie). Because bugs from ST can reproduce as much as they want. And Aliens without hosts - no. Aliens are parasites and will never be enough to create a full-fledged army. The irony is that it's just the same experiments with films. Attempts to show other ways of reproduce of xenomorphs can just lead to the fact that the film turns into a clone of Starship Troopers. This will never happen to current (egg>facehugger>chestburster>adult alien) aliens. But after some experiments and trying to bring something new to the franchise, we can get an ST clone - (eggs>adult aliens).

Among other things, I think the main question is not "how long", but "how will it look." I think Neomorf, trilobite and hammerpede are very original creatures. But there are only three of them. Moreover: Neomorph is a wild form of xenomroph and trilobite is just a giant facehugger. Not so new in essence. But these are good experiments. And yet, i agree, it would be great if we saw many other creatures, including humanoids and engineers, but ... it would be better if they return to the aesthetics of biomechanics.

Nobody and nothing will change my mind. xDDD

@Kongzilla

I think i have to back and LOOK at what the Franchise is Retrospectively and then INDEED the Franchise say prior to 2010 was about the Xenomorph and Ripley those are the TWO Main things that MOST people associate with the Franchise... you had the Marines but they ONLY appeared in the ONE Movie and while you had Androids and the Companies and their Agenda... it seemed to be about Xenomorphs and Ripley to MOST FOLK and so it would appear that you just WONT have a ALIEN Movie if you removed them... especially the Xenomorph.

But the Bigger Theme that was going was Mankinds Hubris of wanting to Gain and Exploit the Xenomorph with Dire Consequences and well Ripley was just caught up a LOT being in the Wrong Place so to speak...

so you arrived at a Juncture where you have to think WHERE do we go NOW?  You dont really have to have a Ripley for a ALIEN Franchise Continuation..

We arrived at the After-Math of Alien Resurrection and it was WHERE do we go NEXT?  Miss Weaver may have been reluctant to say do a Continuation of AR and it was then HOW do you introduce the Xenomorph again without any REBOOTS etc.

The Movie Franchise had maybe led us to ASSUME that the Derelict was the ONLY SHIP that had those Eggs.. and that after ALIENS we have to assume their is NO Specimens left to Obtain from LV-426.

HOWEVER..... who is to say that LV-426 and Ripley are the ONLY avenues to the Xenomorph...  and so we did have both Ridley Scott and James Cameron considering a Return to the Franchise, with ONE looking more at the Space Jockey Connection the other wanting to take us to the Xenomorph Home-world.

But ALAS... we got the AVP Movies and i think especially after AVPR it Tarnished the Xenomorph a little.

And so at this POINT we had to think about HOW can you Continue with the Xenomorph, HOW do you drag it out of the MUD that was AVPR?

With the Xenomorph being a STALKING KILLER we essentially have a Alien Space Jason Voorhees  and we all know your Limited when making Movie after Movie about HIM.

The other SIDE of the Coin would be to look at the HIVE in Greater Number and Depth, but you can run the RISK of turning the Franchise into a STARSHIP TROOPERS.

So you had to be looking at HOW can you Evolve/Uplift the Xenomorph, or can you really release another Space Friday the 13th or Starship Troopers?

And so they came to the Conclusion that Actually if there is ONE thing we dont know about the Xenomorph was its Origins... HOW did the Space Jockey obtain it, WHAT was the Reason for them having those Eggs etc.

And so our Prequels began which would Answer some of those Questions but it also INTRODUCED the Engineers and their Creators Plot... with the Revelation appearing to be (as RS had said for Years) that the Xenomorph was merely a Engineered Bio-Weapon by the Space Jockey Engineers.

And so by the TIME they brought Lindeloff on they thought well IF the Xenomorph is merely a Engineered Experiment or a By-Product of such Experiments... i guess ONCE you Answered that it was WHERE/HOW do you go with the Xenomorph then?  And so they FELT that the Engineers Plot and other Horrors they could have Created would have been the WAY FORWARDS to offer a SPIN OFF EXPANSION of the Franchise.

Its at this Point that we can look at the Space Jockey from ALIEN as also being ALIEN and so to Expand to explore them and what other Creations and Worlds they have been INVOLVED in would also be WORTHY of the ALIEN Franchise.

But i think the PROBLEM with doing this would be that IF you STEER too FAR from the Xenomorph and dont offer anything similar then some Fans maybe would NOT see HOW this can be a ALIEN MOVIE...  the Franchise had become Synonymous with the Xenomorph.

And so Kongzilla i think you raise a Excellent Point.... while the Franchise could Potentially Offer more Worlds/Races than Star Trek and Star Wars we have to remember that it could maybe FIND it Hard to Pull that off, as we already have those TWO established Brands and a FEW other like it.....  so you would maybe have to be CAREFUL as to HOW FAR you Steer Away from the Space Jockey from ALIEN.

so its became a case of is there a MARKET for such Avenues? would there be a Interest in such things as other Worlds, connected to the Engineers and HOW do you pull that off without Conflicting with the ALIEN Franchise...

We had the Prequels become something of Davids Journey and Adventure to what HORRORS he wishes to Create and Unleash which has made ALIEN less ALIEN and with AC it kind of Closed the Door to a Deeper Exploration of the Engineers.

It seemed that MOST FOLK would NOT be interested in what David would get up to NEXT... and in the Aftermath its is there a way back to the Engineers and other Worlds/Races they are Connected to or has that SHIP SAILED? or was their NEVER going to be enough of a Interest in it?

And so thats when we come to the OT....

It appears that Disney are interested in making another ALIEN Movie/TV Series where it seems they will AVOID what the Prequels had done... and go back to the Xenomorph.

But thats where we arrive back at seeing HOW do we do that, and HOW MANY more times can we have Face Hugging, Chest Bursting and Snarling?   This does-not mean you cant have the Xenomorph... as it would come down to the Situation/Plot that would introduce them, and its more about THAT kind of Plot Set-up that has to be done RIGHT.

Because i feel that if we Center around the Xenomorph and Portray it from ALIEN and ALIEN 3 then how many times before we get into Friday 13th in Space.... and if we go for ALIENS/ALIEN R more Action Fest, how long before it becomes like Starship Troopers?

I think we need to look at a way to UPLIFT/EVOLVE the Xenomorph to be more than what we Currently have seen.

Regarding TERMINATOR i think that YES the original was DARK but its a case of seeing HOW they Pull this off because Terminator Salvation was also Dark too...  i think that Dark Fate did make a bit of a Mockery of the Terminator like The Predator had done to that Species too.

Hopefully it can Bring back what was GREAT about Terminator and i think the same has to be said for another ALIEN Movie because as with Predator too i think these Franchises NEED something to Pull them from the Brink of becoming Stale and a Joke.

Maybe that means getting back to the Basics and sometimes maybe trying to Re-invent the Wheel is something that does-not work?

Koujilovesdrhell:

No, I think Wayland said he was dead because he was lying.  He was old and dying but was hidden on the ship in stasis.  

My understanding of the Alien universe is that they use time expansion instead of time dilation.  So, the earth does not age thousands of years while they sleep for a couple of years while traveling at 15c.  Instead, time proceeds at an accelerated rate INSIDE the ship, so all occupants must be in suspended animation or they would age decades or more during a flight that only took a couple of years from the perspective of someone on earth.  That's how they get around one group aging more than another, and why only robots can be active during a journey like that.

Maybe that's supposed to be the conscience. Some people hear it more often and louder, other shut it up for good.

If you hear a voice trying to stop you from doing something bad, that should be ok. 

Just try to do something bad and listen carefully if you hear something from within :)

"But for me the MOST ALIEN scene in the WHOLE FRANCHISE had to be the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene...."

Exactly... even Ridley has always said that to him... this was one of the most important, and unexplored aspects of the original film.

I'm not really interested in debating on exactly where or what direction the films or stories should have gone, or where they should go from here.

IMHO, what's more important is the QUALITY of the story.

I think the basic "Prometheus" storyline dealing with the origin of the engineers, how they related to us, and how they related to the original xeno was incredibly interesting and fascinating. (unfortunately, they just screwed up everything else about the film)

I also agree with the point that the stories don't necessarily have to have xeno's in them... because... the stories do involve them, in a roundabout way. Everything about the engineers tied back to the original "Alien" film, because of the mystery of the "space jockey" scene. And, that scene was also about the "xenomorphs" because they were part of that scene too, and thus, also part of the mystery.

My contention is that if the stories were done well, then it wouldn't really matter if xeno's were in the prequels or not. Because they can be alluded to, and be part of the back story. In many ways, that would be even better than forcing them into the films or stories. (which is what they did)

But as I've been saying, the KEY thing is the quality of the stories. That's the foundation, and that's the most important element. The right leaders, the right writers... the right everything.

It doesn't have to be like Star Wars or Star Trek either, in terms of having other branching stories. And it doesn't have to be treated like a "franchise" either, in terms of following a specific formula. Heck, that's where most of the bad decisions have come from. It only needs to connect to the crucial plot elements that involve the original "Alien" story.

That's why I keep bringing up "The Mandalorian" as the prime example. What they've done, and what they've shown is so important for the future of SW. They didn't copy cat the past, they didn't follow the standard studio corporate formulas, and most importantly... they didn't try to reinvent the wheel.

They stayed true to the history and lore of the original SW stories, and they payed homage to them, but they didn't pander to them. They didn't do things for the wrong reasons, or use things in the wrong way.

The "Alien" franchise could've done the same thing. And it still can.

If "Prometheus" was done dramatically better, if the writing had been better, if Ridley had directed better, if the scenes had been chosen better, if the dialogue had been better, etc, etc... who knows... we may have all been as satisfied and overjoyed as SW fans have been over the season 2 finale of "The Mandalorian".

There is nothing I would love more than to be thoroughly engaged and fascinated with the "Alien" prequels. I "LOVE" the original "Alien" movie, and I've always considered it in my top 10 movies of all time. When I heard that Ridley was making "Prometheus" I was soooo excited, and I could hardly wait. I went into the theater with such high hopes, and although I was intrigued by the engineers part of the plot, I was so disappointed by almost everything else. I tried to give it a chance, but I just couldn't defend all of the negative aspects of the film. I couldn't believe that Ridley was in charge of that, and that he was responsible for that. How could that even be the same director? 

For all of his fascination with the "space jockey" storyline, how could deviate from it in that way? And how could he look at the dailies of some of those scenes, and not cringe at the bad dialogue, the bad acting, and the utter nonsense of them?

I didn't understand that... and then it was even worse (in some ways) when "Alien Covenant" came out.

Anyhow, my point is that I know many of us just want justice for the "Alien" franchise, and we just want some good stories/movies. 

And I think that could happen, if, and when they decide to put the right people in place.

This is all very interesting. Thank you all very much!

I now realise this phenomenon is really very common, and different people think in quite different ways. My wife has a voice in her head, too. Who knows, perhaps I am the only person in the world who is free of talking going on in his head.

Tourette's sufferers have an inner voice, too. And it comes from their personality - the me that's inside me, as it were. Except they have a problem where the brain connects that voice directly to their mouth.

From my perspective, having an inner voice that doesn't move the lips would be one short step away from having Tourette's.

Just imagine if almost everyone in he world had Tourette's. Would you say there's nothing wrong with that just because it was common? From my perspective with no inner voice, I would consider it very wrong indeed if I suddenly started hearing what I was thinking (in words). I'd put it down to a fault in the wiring of my brain.

@hox; It's not like there is another person talking to me, it's just me, my inner voice. 

If the inner voice means an internal dialogue or a monologue with oneself. Then there is nothing wrong with that. As long as you take these words for your own, albeit in different roles. 

But if you think that some foreign, strange person is talking to you in your head, and you do not consider it as part of your personality, then it is better to make an appointment with the doctor early in the morning.

I'm getting worried now! It seems like there are more strange people in the world than I thought ;-)

Words are a way of putting thoughts into a particular sequence. Like ticker tape coming out of a computer. They are useful in communicating an idea from one person to another (just like I'm doing now). You are deserialising my words (to use computing terminology) to infer my thoughts from those words.

I don't need that kind of serialisation in order to process stimuli. When I hear a piece of music I don't put it into word, and no words speak to me of that. When I think about how I'm going to solve a jigsaw or Sudoku puzzle, I don't need words for that. If I plan a game of chess, it's a matter of running though the multitude of possibilities, not listening to another person inside my head barking instructions as to which piece to move where!

What happens when someone speaks to you? In your mind, is there another "you" who you're having a conversation with, a third party hiding in the shadows?

I'd be scared to death if that happened to me.

The problem with multiple worlds is life forms - shapes. Alien - xenomorph has a unique and recognizable shape that easily distinguishes it from thousands of other monsters. 

What can you suggest?

Giant slugs, amoebas, spiders, or just another humanoids? It's all terribly cliched for over half a century. The additional materials to Prometheus and Covenant show these creatures with a very generic shapes. It would be very pathetic if they appeared in the film. 

It's not even about the generic shape. It's about the style. Even a xenomorph can become soft if biomechanics are taken away from it.

You cannot thoughtlessly take and create a bunch of new worlds guided by the fix-idea about distance from the Alien. You need to keep the franchise within a recognizable framework. Otherwise, you just end up with a Star Wars or Star Trek wannabe clone

P.S. Have you heard of the next Terminator movie? T3, T:S, T:G and Dark Fate tried to copy and hype the Terminator 2 formula and of course failed at the box office. They also made many experiments in the story, but failed. But the next film will return to the franchise's roots - local dark horror. It's too early to tell, but the movie has a better chance of success. For budgetary and scenario reasons.

Yes, I have one. It's always been there, it helps me think.

I think i should go back to the Valid Point that Kongzilla had brought up, and INDEED the XENOMORPH is Synonymous with the Franchise it has appeared in ALL but ONE of the Franchise Movies (even if we inc AVPS) i think while the ALIEN Franchise has other Elements beyond just the Xenomorph, i think when we are going to use a ALIEN Prefix then you would be Expected to have the Xenomorph or a Connection.

Ripley was ONE of the Biggest Parts of the Franchise, her Story came to a END with Alien 3 but she was Resurrected as a Clone... while she is also Synonymous with the Franchise to make say a Prequel of her before ALIEN where she encounters NOTHING that is ALIEN at all would maybe NOT go and Warrant the Prefix or be Considered say ALIEN.

A History/Back Story to Weyland/Yutani would likewise FALL into the same BOAT.

When i looked at ALIEN prior to 2011, then YES the ALIEN aka Xenomorph was a Prominent Figure, but it was ONE that had suffered some Damage to its Reputation. so much so that when i looked back at the Xenomorph and how we saw it then it STARTED to NOT be so ALIEN.. it was ALIEN..

But for me the MOST ALIEN scene in the WHOLE FRANCHISE had to be the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene....

I had always been Fascinated with that SCENE.. its my Favorite in the Franchise... a ENIGMA... and for me while i wanted to know the Xenomorph Connection/Origins.. i was more Fascinated in WHAT that Pilot was... where did he come from, if those Eggs are to be USED as a Bio-Weapon, then against WHO, and WHY just as much as HOW they came to be in Possession of the Eggs.

So the Space Jockey was TRULY ALIEN... so it seemed.. and so for me and my Point is that the Xenomorph may had been a ALIEN LIFE-FORM.. its Origins at least had NOT began on Earth or so it seemed ;)

So those TWO where ALIEN but then we have the Colonial Marines who had surely had other Dangerous Missions.. they NEVER always encountered and BUG STOMPED the Xenomorph and also they encountered the Arcturians and we can ASSUME they are a ALIEN Species....

And so we have it that Mankind has encountered other ALIEN Species some Hostile others NOT SO... but they had NOT faced anything as Hostile and Dangerous as the Xenomorph, but we have it that there is more than ONE ALIEN in the Galaxy (well TWO if we look at the Space Jockey).

But with Prometheus we had taken the Franchise from its BOX and we have the Potential of many Worlds, many Species, some Intelligent, some Dangerous and so i have always FELT since 2013 that you can EXPAND the ALIEN Franchise to be about ALIEN WORLDS and Encounters that Do-Not have to be about our Standard Xenomorphs.

So when i was saying its if FOLK would get passed expecting a ALIEN Franchise or Spin-Off to have the Xenomorph i meant in Terms of Replace it by showing us other Encounters... and NOT really be Stuck on Earth/Mars with Peter Weyland.

But i do think the ALIEN Franchise could have a Spin-Off series that can Connect to Various things that have NOTHING to do with the Xenomorph... but again maybe these would NOT go and Warrant the ALIEN Prefix..... unless they lead to a ALIEN Encounter (does not have to be Xenos).

But as i have said before.. the ALIEN Prefix is what would make a Project to become recognized and Marketed but with that you get the Expectation that you should see the Xenomorph or some Connection.

This does-not mean i DISLIKE the Xenomorph i think its ONE of the Most Iconic Species in Sci-Fi i just want to see it handled with Care and Worry that Over Exposure if we DONT get a GREAT Movie could push the Beast to become more of a Mockery....

I think as with The Predator Franchise we are in the Area where we have to HANDLE WITH CARE....  another The Predator or a AVPR or say to a degree a AC/AR and we could be then another Disappointment away from seeing such Franchises Fall into a Abyss of Shame

When prior to say 1995 both Franchises were so ICONIC... and well i dont want to see them Fall into the Mockery that the TERMINATOR kind of has found itself in ;)

We know so LITTLE about what Direction we would have gone had Dr Shaw survived and gone on to get some answers.

The only Titles i heard was given to a Sequel was Paradise Lost and Pandemonium.   But we NEVER ended up with Paglen and Greens Continuation.

Ridley Scott had mentioned that the Sequel to Alien Covenant would be called AWAKENING... how this fits with the PLOT is Unknown as well we could ask about in HOW does Covenant fit with the Plot to AC?

From what LITTLE we know about AC2 it seemed it would FOLLOW to where it is David would have gone NEXT and what he would have done NEXT.... asking "what kind of a world would David Create" and that it would NOT be about Xenomorphs but A.I but he also had Mentioned he saw the Replicants as A.I

He had said that there would be 1-2 more after Awakening where we would conclude with HOW/WHEN and WHY the Derelict was on LV-426.  The other Interesting thing he said is that there would be 3-4 Parties arriving after David, so too where he would END UP.. but this Comment could mean as FAR as the Scope for the Sequels and maybe NOT that all these Parties would SHOW-UP in the Sequel.

"resulting in her losing her faith, "awakening" to the true existential nature of creation"

I Suspect that YES the Original Idea would be that Dr Shaw Finally gets her Answers... and they could be something that would CRUSH her Faith... and it would have been Interesting to see WHAT such Revelations would do to her Character.  And also HOW Shocking could the Engineers Origins had been ;)

"And just as important, if not more, the TV series format allows for the stories and characters to be far more fully developed, and thus, much more satisfying and engaging for audiences."

Thats the ONE Problem with a Movie is you have LESS TIME to Flesh Out and introduce Characters, so you have to Focus on a FEW and sometimes its HARD to do that Justice when the Movie has to MEET a Number of Plot Points/Devices, something Alien Covenant suffered from.. but then with Prometheus the Character Development was Flawed.. but saying that i think ONLY really ALIEN and ALIENS kinda got that Right.....But Alien 3 was not to Bad.... and so YES a TV Series means you can Flesh Out Characters and Stories as your NOT going to be Confined to 2 Hours ;)

I think a TV Series can Help to Flesh Out some Background to the ALIEN Franchise that does-not have to REVOLVE around the Eggs or Xenomorph, but something that Connects to a Event at a Latter Time...... I guess Pretty Much like say the Covenant Origins Book which had NOTHING to do with the Events of ALIEN or Alien Covenant... but more as a Prequel to the Covenant Colony Mission.

"There is a problem if the themes become more important than the story and characters."

I think the Themes are what can Ancor the Story but the Story is the TELLING of these Themes to make it into a Story and its the HOW you tell it that is INDEED of Most Importence... but for a STORY to engage you then the Better the Characters the more Invested we are to the Story.... and so YES the Characters are Very Important.

I think the Alien R the Characters just Never Connected well, although CALL was interesting.  I think Alien 3 had some Interesting Characters but every Movie since has just NOT had Solid Characters..... well NOT enough.

"but wouldn't it have made the original Xeno look lame if it had been bigger and more deadly?"

Again this would have Fitted the Theme of Progression/Perfection but indeed having David Create something Superior would also have UPSET Fans.....

I know some see the Xenomorph as Perfection... but it became a bit LAME... the more you SHOW IT and HOW you show it, you RISK making it become STALE and well NOT having the same Effect.   So i just find their is Limits to what you can do....

Unless your going to look at what other HORRORS can come from the Xenomorph be that Experiments on it, or what kinds of Horrors could come from LV-223... we see with Davids Experiments some of those Horrors... i can ONLY imagine the Engineers would have had a SIMILAR Work Shop of Horrors in the Past.

Or Wonder to what HORRORS that Mankind could attempt when they Finally are able to Get a Specimen and Conduct Work before the THING goes on the Rampage.