Comments (Page 137)

I guess my premise regarding the Engineers mistaking Walter for David assumes that whatever damage David inflicted was possible to repair (either by Walter himself, given sufficient time, or by the Engineers upon discovering his body).

I think you guys already know my theories on that, and... I might just now be formulating an idea for an update to my Walter fic (three years later...)

I am really digging your apples analogy. The bad apples symbolizing dangerous knowledge that could spread to other cultivated worlds. That's very in keeping with the Biblical undertones, and honestly just really brilliant.

Well, I think the Engineers were already pretty ticked off with humans before David turned up but yes I could see them deciding to also completely scrap any worlds they may have similarly seeded, for fear those worlds might bare similar fruit. 

I think its Interesting to Ponder from where had these Creatures came from?

*Construct from the Magical Abilities of Mother and her Species?

*Something Engineered/Created from some of the Human Embryos?

*Something that is brought to the World by incoming Humans?

*OR.... something Native/Natural to this World?

I wonder if these Creatures come from that Giant Sink Hole? and its Mother calling to them?

Certainly i think its HIGHLY likely they will Discover the Body of Walter the Question is to WHAT state is Walter in?

He must be in some incapacitated State to allow for David to be able to Strip him of his Clothes and make a Run for it.

So from the Engineers POV they could think they have Found the Culprit and seen they are Incapacitated and from then you would think the Engineers would be RIGHT!  (depending on How Many Ships they arrive in or IF they can Re-Activate any on Planet 4).

It would then be.....

*Right lets send a Ship to Secure LV-223

*Lets send a Ship/Ships to Worlds within a Certain Radius that they know has Human Life on it.

This is UNLESS they have or Discover a Way to Determine that the Place of Origin for these Intruders was Earth.... this would be EASY if the Earth is the ONLY Place to have Humans.

Do the Returning Engineers have any Hierarchy with them?

If NOT then they would Certainly try and Contact HQ/Command.

At some point the Hierarchy/Order of the Engineers would maybe have to SIT DOWN  and discus the Safety and Risk of all the Worlds they have Seeded Intelligent Life.  Maybe some on the Council would think its the BEST idea to Eradicate All or Many of the Worlds they have Intelligent Life... they Certainly would want to go and Visit them and Check on HOW FAR they have Developed... and for Any that appear to be at the Level we was say 200 Years ago it could be CURTAINS for them!

At Present we really dont know how many Worlds the Engineers are involved in, how many actual Places the Engineers have Ships/Outposts on.  So we dont know how many Engineers are out there or how many Worlds they had Interacted with and Evolved.

It could be the Number of Worlds and the Distances between them means the Engineers are NOT really regular Visitors they could say Visit World 00135  then it could be 500, 1000 or more Years before they Return to that World again.

The Galaxy could be a Giant Orchard but where the Apple Trees are SPACED very FAR apart.  They would check on the Progress of each Apple Tree and if some of the Fruit are Not Right they could try and Pick the Bad Fruit away, and TEND to the Tree to make the Fruit Better.

If most of the Fruit are Bad they could take away and Destroy the Bad Fruit and Cut Back the Tree and Hope that the Next Season it would GROW back with better Fruit.

Sometimes maybe the TREE is so BAD that they UPROOT the Tree, they Change/Effect the Soil and eventually they PLANT a New Tree.

In the Case of Earth they decided to either Drastically Cut Back the Tree or even to Uproot it....   But after the Outbreak on LV-223 they maybe decided to Abandon our World....

Leave this BAD TREE to ROT with the Knowledge the Rotten Apples wont FALL FAR from the Tree and so would NOT affect the other TREES that are too FAR away.

Upon the Discovery of Planet 4 and the Destruction they would Realize that somehow... a Apple from a Rotten Tree has managed to get to other Trees and Corrupt it with its Seed... or thats the RISK that is Posed by a Space Fairing Sub Creation.

So surely the Earth would be on a Short List of World to Investigate.... and upon the Discovery of HOW FAR we have Advanced since we was Abandoned by our Creators...  The Engineers would surely see there is NO CHOICE but to Destroy us!

Would they also Conclude that other Worlds could NEED the same Treatment to AVOID the same Situation again? (Worlds Inhabitants Advancing without the Engineers Help).

Wow @BigDave really awesome topic! Brilliant. 

And uh oh, it looks like my personal pet-topic has come up...

With regards to the "do synthetics feel pain" question (because WHY NOT!? Scary movies aren't exactly scary if the characters can't feel pain...??)

@BlackAnt

I would invite you to go back and re-watch the scene where Bishop gets impaled because to me, the scene depicts pain pretty accurately. 

I think as hox said, pain is an important protective mechanism so unless you wanted your robot to get destroyed really easily, you would program it to naturally avoid damaging stimuli. 

I think the brain is a physical and chemical object and if you created a replica of the human brain, you could replicate the experiences it produces.  

However, I think the synthetics are well programmed in that, they seem to stop feeling pain once they've already suffered a catastrophic injury and are not in a position to remedy the situation (like decapitation or being torn in half...). 

ANYWAY, as far as how the Engineers would react upon returning to Planet 4, has anyone considered this possibility yet?

The Engineers return, see the holographic recordings from the ship showing that David released the pathogen, find Walter stranded on the planet, and (believing Walter to be David) take their wrath out on him. 

Anyone thought of that yet, hmm?

(My reply got duplicated and there isn't a delete option, so here, have this bonus reply.)

@dk

I just watched Specimen, it was great! It definitely took a different direction than I expected. 

I still have to say, Alone was definitely my favorite. It deserves an award or something.  

I am pretty much with Leto on this. It's a toss up between Specimen and Alone. While I enjoy them all in their own right, these two stand out for me.

Oh, I liked Ore! Good acting, relatable characters. Hanks' facial expressions watching the Xeno attack the miners were like a horror fan watching a scary movie. Like "That's terrible! But also awesome." Haha. 

It is actually a screen capture of the creature disappearing as it hits the running girl. But yes, it does look like Xeno Fiefeld. Just a lucky screen grab.

@Leto

I haven't seen Specimen or Ore yet, but I'll update with my reaction :D

I thought Containment was pretty good. I was just wondering if Albrecht was a synthetic or not. 

I wasn't really that big on Harvest. I'm not sure why, because it seemed like it was well done.

It might just because I watched too many of them in quick succession so they started loosing emotional impact, but I just found it a little underwhelming somehow.  

Also the ambiguity at the ending came off as frustrating rather than mysterious. A) Who were the two survivors? Her and her baby I'm guessing. But B) How did they survive with two(?) xenos on board?

@SuperAlien and Thoughts_Dreams Thanks!!!

And, yep Thoughts_Dreams , that totally looks like Xeno-fied Fiefield. 

@Thoughts_Dreams

So far, Alone was my favorite because it just really ticked all the boxes for me. Like, I while I watched it, I had this grin on my face that just kept getting bigger and bigger. 

@I Raptus I really like the idea that the twitchy-ness was a reference to her being a hyperdyne model! 

I haven't seen Ore yet, I'll watch it next. 

I liked Night Shift because it felt like it had that authetic Weyland-Yutani bleakness from beginning to end. 

I also really liked "Signs of Life" because it was cool to see around David's creepy lab. 

@dk Yay! :D Discover any note-worthy details on the re-watch?

Yeah, Alone also is my favorite. Specimen - the second. Night Shift - the third.

Ore - a little bit silly. Harvest - i almost forgot, but it's somewhere between Ore and Containment. Containment - a trash with all the cliches.

Just watched "Containment"! Nice! A little close to home in the age of Covid... Was Albrecht a synthetic? I kind of thought she might be from her reaction to the chestburster. (Then again, she might just be a scientist)

VivisectedEngineer, I am glad you revived this thread as I am rewatching them. Thanks- I almost forgot about these shorts.

Was Alone your favorite? To me it was too much like Covenant, I got kind of bored. Ore was my favorite since you could see the panic that they reacted with, you had the corporate scumbag (the one that looked at the computer-screen). I liked the interaction between the characters for example in the locker-room in the beginning, that is like how speak with people in real life which is no deep talk but rather how you have casual conversations with your coworkers.

Unfortunately I didn't like Alien Alone or Alien Harvest. They were too much about the androids and Alien Covenant made me disinterested in that topic.

Guys? Guys. Listen. Words cannot express how much I loved "Alone" 

Oh man. Ok, at first when she was all "I've been counting the rivets in the B deck corridor. There are 28,882 Rivets. That's two more than in the technical specs..." I was like lol, 2020 quarantine vibes.

Then when she was sitting around sketching I was like "Her art style is like David." 

When she finally got into the sealed room and decided to unfreeze the specimen, at first I thought it was going to be a human who was infected with a chestburster and had been put in cryostasis for safe keeping. 

Then it's a facehugger and I'm like "Uh oh, here it comes!" THEN THE WHITE BLOOD! Oh! No wonder she draws like David!

And she keeps the facehugger as a pet!? 

Oh man, I don't know this film is just great. If fulfills my love of both sad/isolated androids, AND evil androids.

Ok, I know I'm necromancing a dead thread here but...this short is just...EVERYTHING.  

I know I'm late to the party but, oh man, too cool! I just watched Night Shift (loved it!) I'm going to watch them all. 

Is Signs of Life part of this list? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLcUiIy_ghw&feature=youtu.be 

I just found it, and it was AMAZING! (I loved getting a look around David's lab)

Having watched the Trailer a few more times i do get the Impression that those other Children who do-not wear those Uniforms are RAISED on that Planet by Mother.

Its Confusing because we have the SHOT of the Drop-Pod and a Group of Robots, and then what we could assume is Mother.... are there TWO of these Mothers? (doubt it)  could some of those Children already been on the Planet before the Arrival of Mother?  Maybe....

OR could what we assume is Mother is Actually Father departing that Ship.

This makes me think of HOW i interpreted RS comments about AC2.... we Swap David (in Disguise as Walter) for Mother.   My Interpretations then made me Speculate that another Colony Ship would turn up to Origae-6... we could SWAP this for some of those PODS that maybe bring Father, those Robots and some other Children/Adults who are in those Grey Uniforms.

In my Interpretation for AC2 i then Speculated that a while after we would see another Human Ship... a Military kind WHO know who David is and what he had done.... he is then RUMBLED and this is when the £$^& HITS THE FAN!

We simply SWAP that for those other Humans in the WHITE who come to Attack Mother and then things go to POT!

I am going to Assume that the Earth had Created A.I that was Advanced or that Created A.I had Sub-Created a Advanced Creation which was those Super-Beings...  I assume that Mankind became Afraid of this Species and TRIED to DESTROY it....

This left this Species NO Choice but to Destroy the Earth but maybe to TAKE some Children away to START AGAIN...

I am going to assume that another Human Colony Mission goes to the Virgin Planet some time latter.... but then the 3rd Ship goes out to this WORLD after they Suspect that ONE of those Super-beings (Wolves) is on that World and these Human Cultist cant risk having the New Generation of Mankind being RAISED by whatever Influences and History that MOTHER would use.....

Also could be that there are NOT many Humans Left and so these Cultist need to ERADICATE Mother so no more Threat of their Species can be made.... and to TAKE the Children away as these are the ONLY FUTURE of Mankind left.

I am going to assume this STAR CULT are the Earths Final Hope to START AGAIN.... and this was the Intention at the Start of the Final Days of Conflict.....  the Plan was to START AGAIN on this World that would WORSHIP the Cult.

But Mother who was Tasked with being a Part  that First Mission is Actually one of those Wolves/Super-beings who has her OWN Plans on HOW to Raise this NEW EDEN and Start of Mankind.

I could be Completely Way Off Base though....

For me the Confusing Part seems to be the Relation and Origin of those Creatures, the Relevance of the Skeletal Beast/Dragon and that Giant Hole and WHY is Mother so Connected to it?

Could it instead be those Beings came from that Planet that the Humans had Planed to Colonize and these beings then WENT to Earth?

"but it disappears as it hits the girl. It happens quickly in the trailer, but it appears that the creature can change physical forms instantly, or perhaps it might be a psychological illusion- tough to tell."

I have had a look at the Trailer again... and to bare in mind the Editing does mean we maybe are NOT seeing things in Chronological Order.

The Creature does go to ATTACK the Girl... then its Vanishes to Red Dust!

We see this SHOT is after another where Mother Blows... NOW... these Shots are likely NOT to be after each other and her Blowing is in the Telling of the 3 Little Pigs Story.

We could read into it the Relation is to show that Mother can Blow Out the Creature...

I believe that Mother has GOOD intentions for the Children and we do see Mother confronts Humans who seem to EXPLODE into Red Particles/Blood.

So i Speculate that maybe as this Girl is being ATTACKED by that Creature we see Mother turns up and is able to USE whatever Power she had to Destroy those Humans on this Creature.

Which seems to be some kind of Acoustic Power that can be Focused on Individuals and Essentially tears them into Particles.  And THIS is what i think is what Caused that Creature to just Disappear into DUST.

The Creature that we see in the Trailer does remind me as if it has Traits of this Engineer Concept, and Fifield... but its HARD to work out due to it NOT being a Detailed Shot.

While the Creature that is Chained Up in the Room with the Dismembered Robots kind of reminds me a bit of this Fifield Concept.

"Sure they might be able to live longer but if they are assholes then what kind of existence is that?"

That is INDEED a Good Point, and one i raised in the OT... the Problem with Enhancing some Humans would indeed be that we could still be Capable of our Emotional/Mental State and so Emotions and Free-will combined are a Problem.   And so if there was some Enhanced Humans then what is to say they WILL NOT see themselves as Superior and FEEL they are Entitled to RULE OVER the more Common Humans.

If it got to a point where ALL of the Humans as we know on Earth will NO LONGER Exist and we are replaced by Enhanced Humans.... then as long as these Humans have Free-will and Emotions and other Traits like Greed, Ambition and Desires.... then this NEW kind of Humanity will likely END UP in Conflict with each other too.

"advance better human qualities like compassion"

I think these are Ethically Taught and something you can not Hard Wire into someone... its a part of Free-will and so its Treatment, Knowledge, Upbringing that can allow someone to be more Compassionate but also depending on this it can be what Causes someone to be Psychotic etc too.

If somebody can Greatly Enhance their Mental Capacity then maybe they could see the Flaws in other People and Feel more Empathy and Understanding but on the Flip-Side being someone more Intellectually Superior could also lead to a Person to View those who are NOT as Superior as 2ND Class etc.

This could be a Potential Problem.....

Say the Replicants for Instance... if their Rebellion led to them being able to FIX the Limited Life-Span so they could LIVE say for 150-250 Years instead....

You could END up with such a Species either

a) Wishing to Control Mankind for our own Good/Protection.

b) They would see that their Species are the Worthy Successor to the Planet and would attempt to RULE over Mankind and get us to be Subservient to them.

I think that Engineered Evolution is something that could offer more PITFALLS than Success.  I think some of the Earlier Engineer Background shows some Pitfalls... such as if you could Engineer your Bodies to Survive for Thousands of Years (One Hundred Thousand by the Initial Pitch by Spaights) then eventually you could run the risk of becoming STERILE.

Who knows to what LIMITS our Species could Enhance ourselves in Hundreds or Thousands of Years time.... provided we DONT end up Destroying Each other by then or our World....

Or if we make A.I too Advanced.

Maybe the ULTIMATE kind of Evolution and Quest for Immortality holds the KEY with A.I such as we see with the Movie... Transcendence

From Jon Spaights initial Pitch Alien 01 the Master Narrative he implies the Engineers where NOT content with the Mental and Genetic Enhancements/Evolution of their Species and they wanted to TRANSCEND to something BEYOND the Limitations of Physical Form.

If we could ever Achieve Similar i think it would be Reserved for the Privileged Few and then this would have a GRAVE impact on regular Humanity... which the Selected Few become more Godlike.

But most of this is merely Sci-Fi or Speculative at most.

For example by the Time or Before we could say have a A.I that can Transfer and Store our SOUL... it more likely that A.I or what would be needed to Achieve a Human Transcendence would lead to a A.I becoming so Powerful that it could Potentially see Humans wishing to become a State of A.I to preserve their Soul/Immortality as a THREAT!

I think as FAR as Genetic Enhancements, any kind of Transcendence of our Soul to a A.I and even the Creation of Advanced Sentient A.I would all be CONTROLLED and Limited by ETHICS..

There is always the risk that some Places/People on Earth would Forgo any Ethics to attempt to achieve such things.

LOL

Thanks Guys ;)

Great topic BD! I wish that they would have had that scene in the movie since it shows more clearly that he had been thinking about this for a long time. Didn't he say something like ". . . my hole life I have been pondering the questions, where do we come from and so on?" My reaction is "OK, for how many years?" When people say for an X amount of time they can have different views for some it is twenty years, for some it can be sixty, it depends on the perspective. This is why the TED talk should have been in the movie because it would give us some perspective into his thinking and that he had thought about it a lot.

"We only USE a small % of our Brain.... what Happens if we can UNLOCK much more of our Potential?"

It isn't only that, you can get smarter IQ-wise but it doesn't mean that we get to develop our ethics. A psychopath can be smart as far as thinking is concerned but that doesn't mean that he or she is equipped ethics wise. Sure they might be able to live longer but if they are assholes then what kind of existence is that?

"Would such Pursuit of Perfected Human Species or other Sub-Creations end up being the Downfall of us PLAYING GOD?"

That would depend if that would be a genetically enhancement for being able to deal with ruthless competition or if we would use that to advance better human qualities like compassion and so on. You can say that it shall be used for the human good but then what is the common human good? Let me know if I have misunderstood the topic.

Am I totally mistaken or does the body-shape of the creature that DK posted look like the Xeno Fifield when you look at the photo? Maybe it is just in my head.

Good to have you back Ingeniero and VivisectedEngineer. The more people that participate the better it is since we all have our (sometimes strong) opinions about things.

SuperAlien Indeed, it is nice to see some members coming back including the OP author.

The creature from the roof looks and moves a lot like the Neomorph- but it disappears as it hits the girl. It happens quickly in the trailer, but it appears that the creature can change physical forms instantly, or perhaps it might be a psychological illusion- tough to tell. It's a very cryptic trailer.

Welcome home, VivisectedEngineer!

BigDave, what if the creature from the roof is the xenomorph equivalent in Raised by Wolves? Something Mother has created from human embryos? And the returning humans are the equivalent of the returning Engineers? 

After all, we don't know what Mother did with the human embryos, but we see in the trailer children of all ages already inhabited that world.

Good news. Since 2014, there are no games about Aliens.

Congrats @BigDave! Your analyses are always brilliant and insightful! 

This looks AMAZING! Good analysis @Bigdave! I can't wait to see this! 

I cant figure out HOW to EMBED VIDEOS

So i will just post this LINK to a Video about HOW successful was Mr Weylands Advancements...

PS... its a JOKE VIDEO a Music Video by Guy Pearce but i think it FITS the Context of Peter Weylands Achievements...

I dont really read the Novels...

Its nice for them to TRY and put a different SPIN on a ALIEN Story However.

I think the Med-Evil setting is interesting to a degree (Especially in the way it had been done) because its about a Colony that is Stranded and have Reverted back to more Primitive Lives.

This is something that would be LIKELY if a Colony Ship had some kind of Accident, or became Stranded as there is ONLY so much you can Carry on a Certain Size Ship.

For Example if the Sulaco had to make a Emergency Landing on a New World and the Ship somewhat Crash Landed, and the Survivors escaped... then if they are STRANDED and have no means to Contact others, then eventually they would have to Start Again... Generation, after Generation with only what they could take from the Crashed Ship they would NOT have the Infrastructure to go and MASS PRODUCE much Advanced Technology and so indeed you would somewhat have to Start Again, where the Architecture etc would be more Primitive.

I think having to deal with the Xenomorph becomes more of a Threat once you have NO real Technology so it could be interesting to see how this is Dealt with in the Book.

Seems to be WELL DONE by your Review I Raptus ;)

And Kudos to the Author for trying something thats Different to the Usual Take on the Franchise...

PS

@Scott Sigler

KUDOS to you, must be a Great Honor to Complete and have Published an ALIEN Novel.... i really have to get around to taking a look at your work.

Cheers ;)

Thats the Official Poster....  September 3rd Release Date

LIFE BEGINS AGAIN!

Is the Tagline...... The Trailer seems to indicate though that Some Humans were already on that World prior to the Arrival of Mother?   But again that Part could be Misleading.

Does make you wonder HOW-MUCH of what Ridley Scotts plans for Alien Covenant 2 have made it into this TV Series.

Because i was always drawn to David being Against what MANKIND are... but NOT what they could be.  Which is WHY i felt the Embryo's were Interesting and i Felt he would NOT go and Destroy them.... maybe he would Engineer them a LITTLE but i felt he would RAISE them so that he could Influence their History, Culture and Faith so to speak.

Looking at the Trailer (parts of it) and the Poster it seems to me that Mother has a Great Pride and Love for those Children... Especially the ones RAISED from Embryo's

Where she may have Good Intentions to Raise a New Eden... where she feels its the Corruption/Knowledge and Vices of Mankind that make us a Dying Species.... a Plague that could Destroy any Paradise we make.

So the Poster seems to Indicate that she WISHES to hold a Great Influence over these New Borns.....

But maybe there is a Sinister Twist/Agenda?

I think this Deepens the Mystery as this is the same Actress who plays Mother, did some Comparisons with other Images of Amanda Collin and i am 95% Certain this Female in the Image above is the same Person.

Again its HARD to Gauge a Trailer as they are CUT/EDIT in a way that would Indicate Certain Scenes follow each other Chronologically but that LIKELY wont be the Case in the TV Show.

Its the Same with the Scene of WAR on Earth..... this could be Prior to the Main Events of the TV Show (When Mother is raising those Children) so a Flash Back.... or it could be something that Happens after.

I think it could be a Ambiguous show as far as in regards to Mother being a Antagonist or Protagonist it would seem she has the BEST intentions of the Children and is ONLY against the Adults..... likely to do with HOW Children are Innocent and its the Product of their Environment, Upbringing and Treatment that MOLDS what KIND of a Person you could be.

The Android likely seeing that Mankinds Ways lead to Conflict and Hostility and NOT any kind of Peace.

It seems the TV Show also has other Aspect of the Themes from Prometheus in regards to a FEAR about Sub-Creation and the Hubris of what Advanced Sub-Creation could TURN OUT to be and then the Creators having to go and ERADICATE their Creations because of the Fear of their Creation overthrowing their Masters.

So i have a Suspicion its the Humans who are incoming who Dismember those Robots we see.  When a A.I gets Advanced and you have Problems... the Logical Solution would indeed be to RECALL and Destroy them....

QUELL the Threat!

It will be Interesting to see WHERE those Super-beings come into PLAY... a Creation of Mankind?  A Creation of A.I or from some other Origins?

Also the Relation/Symbolism and Significance of the Skeletal Dragon and that Hole/Chasm are Interesting to Ponder.

Surely they would NOT be Important if those Super-beings were Sub-Created on Earth and Mother is ONE who had Escaped to the World that Raise by Wolves is set on!

Maybe we cant RULE OUT that this World has some kind of Spirit of some Species that Inhabit Mother, and so the Earth War is a Latter Event?   This could give a Sinister Motive to Mother Raising those Children.... are they to be HOSTS so her Species can be Re-born?

Maybe that is a BIT FAR Fetched and quite off the Mark.

@SuperAlien

Here is the  LINK its a more HI-DEF Trailer

It seems that Mother is one of those Super-Beings, and it appears they have Great Power not only Levitation and Flight but other Powers including the ability to Basically De-materialize a Human to Particles

That Creature could be some kind of Construct she has Created/Controls there is a LOT that could be Misleading from the Trailer though.

On the mobile version of the site I can't see the enhanced screenshots and the trailer.

I think Mother is one of the "super beings" that levitate, while the creature that jumps at the woman from the roof is something else, more like the monsters tied on board that vessel seen in the trailer.

Hi, Raptus. I'm glad you enjoyed the novel! Writing in the ALIENS universe was a dream come true. 

Those "super beings" appear to have some sort of special powers. They seem to levitate and disappear like this one did after stalking the girl. Looks like it may have been just scaring her.

Thanks for that LINK its a more HI-DEF Trailer

From this SHOT we First see a Human already on the Planet, when what could be Mother arrives.  What i NOTICE from this SHOT is that from this Drop Capsule we see those beings in Front seem to also came from this and they APPEAR to me to be those ROBOTS that we see Dismembered latter.

Does this mean that MOTHER had arrived with other Robots?

From CLOSE Inspection of this SHOT it shows that there are a Number of those SUPER BEINGS.... i can make out 3 of them.