Comments (Page 140)

This should become a trend on these boards, whenever a member acquires a rep count of 426, we celebrate!

I've tipped my hat many times to Big Dave, he brings an unrivaled depth to his discussions and I always enjoy reading through his latest replies over my morning coffee. I can't count the number of times he's inspired my own theories and built on things I never even considered. That's what makes these forums so addicting at times and so enjoyable. 

Keep on keeping on Big Dave, you're an integral part of this community!

Also, kudos to the OP this was a thoughtful gesture! Upvoting ;)

Curiously, when I watched additional content on AC Blu-Ray - Planet 4 in the comments has been designated Valhalla, not Paradise. Paradise is a place where righteous souls go. Valhalla is a warrior's paradise. What can this information give us?

Could the inhabitants of Planet 4 be "retired" warriors from LV-223 or similar places? And if they are warriors - what did they do? Did they destroy, conquer and plunder other worlds? Did they fight with other clans (factions) of Engineers? Could Earth be created by faction A, and Engineers from LV-223, Planet 4 - faction B? And are the Engineers who created people on Earth different?

Shaw believed the cave painting was an invitation. She was wrong and admitted it. But what was this painting really? It is logical to assume that this was a warning - "don't go there." This coincides with some of the comments for Prometheus, such as: "they learned Spanish, but sailed to the Portuguese." And if the Engineers who created people were the same warriors, then the rock painting takes on a new, third meaning - conquer this place!

To raise children without full grown adults, not teaching them the ways of Man, the human history, or the origin of the species, but, at the same time, to make a new format of human individuals with creations of Man (two androids, female and male, mother and father), i think the past mistakes of mankind are like the facehugger in the Sulako, they have made all the journey hidden, waiting for the best moment to "impregnate" the infants.

The attempt to save mankind from mankind, will it succeed? 

Or, is mankind doomed to extinction? 

New photos in the topic

Thanks for the Share and Time put into this.

I really really must take a look at your Interpretation i think while we all have Varied Interpretations i feel its a SHAME that we never got a Sequel that seemed to take on what seemed to be a Different Direction to what we eventually got with Alien Covenant.

Sorry to hear about such Hard Times.

Hopefully there is Plenty of Light at the End of that Tunnel.

Such a Shame to have LOST so much of what you Created, hopefully you can Remember most of it and i LOOK FORWARDS to see your Work ;)

I think  as A.I goes on to Advance i Certainly cant rule out this being a Possibility who knows to what LEVEL a A.I could become in 50 Years, 100 Years etc.

Would such a THING be Bad though?

As Robots become more Abundant in the Industrial Revolution, we had seen so many JOBS that are replaced by Machines because they can Perform the Tasks more Quicker and Efficient.

Once we get A.I that is so Advanced it can Create ART in Various Forms... which include Writing, Music, TV/Film then could this have a NEGATIVE effect?

"Incredible Art has always been as much about conveying beauty, tragedy, love, war, and all the things of the human condition that compels us hopefully to a more complex understanding about the relationships we have with everything around us through consuming these works."

I agree with this..... i do think its a LITTLE to early to Write-Off this TV Series at this point.  I  assume that RS will be trying to give us something THOUGHT PROVOKING but only TIME will tell.

I think its HARD to come up with something TRULY Original within the Sci-Fi Genre.

Looking at the FEW Teasers we have it appears that the Androids are on a Earth like World (bit Baron though) it appears that the Mother with some Children go to Investigate a Crashed Ship but they also appear to have come Across something ELSE.

We do see some other Humans seem to be from some kind of CULT...

But then we do seem to see some kind of Super Powerful being.

This kind of Concerns me a Little.

I would assume this being is NOT the Mother, i would Speculate it comes from a Crashed Egg Shaped Object we can just make out in some of the Screen Captures.

I think its a little too Early to make any Judgements at Present maybe we could be Pleasantly Surprised or maybe it is a Pile of Horse Crap... only Time will tell.

I am being drawn to this being about Sub-Creation though and would NOT be surprised if the Powerful being is a Engineered Experiment with God-like Powers.. (oh dear).

That the other Human Cultist are in Pursuit of.

@Leto

I think as we have NO real Confirmation on Screen, they indeed Planet 4 could be Explained as merely a Colony...

The Story is open to Change on Screen because NOT MUCH has been Spoon Fed Explained.

You have got to look at the Engineers as a Advanced Race who have been Traversing the Galaxy for Millions of Years.. IF for example we manage to gain FTL Travel so say its 2150 and we are as Advanced as Humans in ALIEN/ALIENS then in 500 Years after that i would assume WHILE it may be that Earth is where we Originate from... it would be LIKELY that we would in 600-700 Years (if we had W-Y 22nd Century Technology) we would have Inhabited Multiple Worlds and the Earth may NO-LONGER be our main BASE/HUB if you would.

So what i am saying is even IF it was that Planet 4 was where our Engineers First came from, its UNLIKELY its the only World that is used as a BASE/HUB for their Species.

We dont have a LOT to go on Theatrically, even with the Extras.... what we was informed about was that Dr Shaw (in the Extended Scene) said she does not want to go HOME she wants David to take her to where the Engineer told him he came from... take me to Paradise.

So when we loosely look at the Biblical Connection, we have to ASK to who are the Engineers?  They are NOT our God, and so if they are more like the ANGELS then this Fits with Paradise because some Angels are Tasked with watching over Paradise (Cherubim) and so Planet 4 could have been what we could call Paradise in that Context.

Which would merely indicate its a Place that our Origins came from.  This could be the Place that Humanoids are taken from to then be Seeded on Various Worlds.... Planet 4 could thus be where the Sacrificial Scene took place.

And so INDEED in this Context the Engineers Hierarchy would NOT come from Planet 4

As i have said before THEY could Explore and change our Planet 4 Engineers to NOT be the Engineers but a Sub-Creation, i dont think that RS would have done this though.... but at the Moment his Vision may NEVER be Finished and so its Open to Change.

I know some see the Prometheus Engineers as the Original and there is NO-WAY those on Planet 4 are Engineers, various people who worked on AC had confirmed they ARE our Engineers....   But RS had said also that they are NOT a Race... but a Civilization and so that means we have a Mixture of Humanoids that become essentially a Engineer Culture/Civilizations.

It seems to me the Changes they made from Prometheus would appear to maybe go and show us the LV-223 Engineers are Genetically Advanced Super Engineers....  they could be the Engineer Equivalents of Replicants

I think having Origae-6 be a Engineer World would be a bit too much of a Coincidence.  Having it be a World with some signs of Ancient Civilization that is LONG GONE could work though... to indicate this was a Place the Engineers had RESET some Thousands of Years ago.

@Thoughts_Dreams

Well the LITTLE Plot i mentioned Last would be a OPTION that could be taken to BY-PASS our David completely.

By that the Engineers who return would surely be able to detect DEAD HUMANS... it becomes a Case of WHERE could these Humans come from and this would depend on HOW MANY different Worlds the Engineers had SEEDED our Species.

They would be able to Determine the Juggernaught that DEALT the Death to Planet 4 had came from LV-223 and IF we can Assume those Engineers are aware of LV-223 and its Purpose and that they had Planned to Destroy Earth in the Past.  Then they would know  they had became Concerned with Mankind from Earth in the past, and i would ASSUME the Earth is the Closest World to Planet 4 that has Humans... they SURELY would Plan a Mission to CHECK OUT our System.

They would also Discover the Workshop of Davids and know that someone had been Experimenting to Create the Ovomorph, so a Option could be that they would look at this and TAKE it to LV-223 to then MASS PRODUCE and Evolve.

Applying a PLOT like this would By-Pass the Need to go after David in order to get the Xenomorph and the Need to go to Origae-6, with Xenomorph Samples from Planet 4 and a Purpose Built Biological Weapons Facility on LV-223 which we can ASSUME is on the Door Step to LV-426 is all the SET-UP we Need to lead to the Derelict on LV-426

The other purpose for this Topic is also to Consider would the Engineers merely decide they have to ONLY go and Destroy Earth?   Would they Start to have 2nd Thoughts about other Humans they had Seeded in the Galaxy?

 I think Riddley Scott wants to build a perspective about a future colonization of exoplanets by humans. He wants to put humans as the gardeners of the universe. The humans inherit the role of their creators, the engineers. Maybe that is his main goal.

The difference from above is 'food for thoughts'.

As nouns the difference between android and replicant

 is that android is a robot that is designed to look and act like a human (usually male) while replicant is (science fiction) an android that is an exact copy of a specific human, or is indistinguishable from a human.

As adjectives the difference between android and replicant

 is that android is possessing human qualities while replicant is replicative.

Maybe, but you might need to clean up any weird grammar and what not. Other than that it probably could

dk

No. That project was called Alien Identity. And it could be a real gem of fanfiction. Perhaps because the project was so solid, FOX got scared. This is a shame to them and causes tons of unabridged rage. Maybe FOX deserves to be bought by Disney.

Leto

Not to steal thunder from this thread, but maybe it is buried here as an early version?

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47453

Yeah, thanks. This is really solid fan-story.

I remember another fan-fiction vid that was supposed to be done around 2015. But FOX (yea, don't think they are better than Disney) shutdown the project, because it could take the bread away from Blomkamp's film. Well... we didn't get either one or the other. Good job FOX!

Yes, this a great short. This is also on the Alien Short Film Festival thread. Indeed, some of these shorts are better than full length movies.

Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aliscTnlsvg

BlackAnt

Sure, we have been here before but with different approaches on the same subject. I am OK with that. As far as green screens and such, I really don’t care. I was raised on B/W Twilight Zone and Outer Limits with laughable effects by today’s standards, but the stories and characters remain among the best today imo- and I suspect plenty of movies have lifted those ideas and learned how to improve effects from those early shows. As for effects in general, I am not too picky. If the story and characters are good, I tend to ignore visual short comings.

I don’t take offense. It’s just a discussion. But here’s the rub: what exactly is that “something new?” I offered an idea although not a great one. There are tons of shorts on sites like Dust, Omeleto etc that have great ideas but are limited with budgets and resources. Still, there are lots of great ideas where sci fi can go. From watching these shorts, I see the best ones imo are the ones that focus on the human condition and might have as few as two actors during the whole show. They are short, potent and to the point. As far as the next big thing, I don’t know.

It is subjective and maybe a loaded question, but what would be the next big new thing?

dk

"The very idea of watching androids raising humans itself is fascinating. There was a good little movie on Netflix called I am Mother that did just that."

Ok so we have not been here before with both Blade Runner movies? We have not already seen this theme play out in all the dynamics of the Alien movies as whole...RS has done a great job in these mediums conveying many interesting and powerful themes. Some how I doubt we are seeing anything new here except the scenes on the green screen change in the background.

I really do not see the point of any of this when so many other great directors have done this exact thing in a lot of other movies for decades...this is not against you dk or anyone else; but, there better be some ground breaking novel new stuff here...I looked at the commercial and I am skeptical of it right now. Saying this is good or not is complete conjecture....or in the movie business maybe this has already jumped the shark....sure sure people can act real good we think they are these super advanced AI's. Well not exactly...maybe it is just me. I am with Thoughts_Dreams on this I feel I want to see something new and powerful or not at all in these productions. This all seems derivative. You want the entire cake not just the raw ingredients.

I agree with Thoughts_Dreams regarding androids to the extent that the prequels focused too much on that aspect. I do think they were well balanced in the Quadrilogy though.

Raised by Wolves seems different though. It's up front on exploring androids raising humans and the philosophical questions that come up. That is the basic premise and I could enjoy it for what it is. That is just where RS wants to go and that is fine- I just don't want to see it as the major theme in the Alien universe. 

The very idea of watching androids raising humans itself is fascinating. There was a good little movie on Netflix called I am Mother that did just that. It's worth a watch. If some call it derivative, well, a lot of movies are that way- it doesn't mean they can't be good.

A little OT- what would be original, and as far as I know it has not ever been done, would have the most advanced AI available right now to write a sci fi story. Even then, it would technically be derivative since the AI would need examples of sci fi and literature from which to draw and some of those stories' elements would surely pop up in the AI's story.

Androids exist in this missions to solve a real problem of Space travel. You need someone to fly the ship, make repairs, etc., someone that doesn´t gets tired, doesn't sleep and stays always sharp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIXM50lzaI

Many many thanks for those who diverted to the link. It is always exciting to see people from all over the world connect. China and the United States always come up but Malaysia and Mexico are new. 

One of the consequences of writing the book has been to look at material associated with the broader Promethean Tradition and see how close the movie was to that tradition. 

Since 2018 I have read the 1818 Text of Dr Frankenstein, considered various thesis written and looked hard at the Documentary. Two scenes come back to me time and again as being key.

1) The Holographic speech of Peter Weyland.

2) The four-way interaction between Elizabeth, the Dark Angel and then Weyland and David's intervention.

Why are we here, what is soul, the attempt to deny death, why did you make me and then want to destroy me. What have I done wrong? 

The difference between The Modern Prometheus and Movie Prometheus is David and he enables us to enlarge the question and consider comparatively what is existence and its subtext (do androids dream). 

This is the point at which to formally identify another concept of my work. Bardo or Intermediation. In Tibetan philosophy it is the state beyond life and before the next life.

From the very beginning, even when the story was quite different, two characters were in the Bardo, in the intermediation. But there is a broader way to look at it.

My work is split into two at the point that the Prometheus slams into the Juggernaut destined for the earth we leave Elizabeth considering the meaning of the two craft and their occupants. We begin Part 2 when she realises she has survived or has she? Different readers have suggested at different points she has 'died'. All are valid viewpoints. But they depend on your view of life, death and the soul. My work is proposing that those are not the gatekeepers to the truth and once you consider the distinctions of the imagined world then the answers to those questions are irrelevant.   

An even broader interpretation is if you take the matter of the Waterfall Incident and then consider the final visual in Ridley's Scott's short Hennessay advert (The Gathering In) you could consider everything is in the Bardo. The Lone Figure dies and all that he is passes with death into Intermediation until the story ends, until the soul comes back to us.

We live in a world where people live and they die. This is a world where people live as a consequence of someone 'dying.' 

The smaller question is would Bardo be relevant to a Movie which would have ended with David and Elizabeth reaching Paradise. Given that the subject was raised recently by Damon Lindelof to explain one of his other works it might have been.

I do believe though once Damon Lindelof saw how his attempt to fashion a separate story away from ALIEN was becoming anchored in a purely Alien conversation (Badass robots, nastier monsters, make Shaw vigilante) that such matters were to excuse the pun 'dead' from the moment he moved on. 

Thanks again for everyone's interest and in particular those who have fed me related matters. During Lockdown in New Zealand, I wrote a second book connected to the Star Trek Enterprise Series.

https://wordpress.com/view/theromulangambit.com

My next work will be entirely my own but I have enjoyed the apprenticeship and found myself going back to the text of Furious Gods this last month and once again finding more of the story.   

My initial reaction to this production overall is very apprehensive. I enjoy great art and film; however, this is just more derivative time wasting chicken head BS!

This appears to be just another cheap entertainment fast food meal that leaves you feeling ultimately unsatisfied. 

With the dysfunctional populations that will watch this I am certain it will have all the fast paced attention deficit jump cut nonsense with just enough special effects to delight the intellectually inept.

Incredible Art has always been as much about conveying beauty, tragedy, love, war, and all the things of the human condition that compels us hopefully to a more complex understanding about the relationships we have with everything around us through viewing these works.
We all understand Ridley Scott’s various other works where he has introduced many different relationships between humans and androids over the last few decades.

I enjoy a lot of his art work with respect to these themes. Just by looking at the few clips that I saw of this new AI and human subject matter I think it does not look so good at all.
The costumes look cheap. There are large plastic set pieces with blinking lights, high tech monitors, with some green screen of the mysterious planet in the background….SO WHAT….after you have seen a few of these I no longer care how he dresses it up and makes it a little bit slicker for the tv people that need to do something with their time.

Like I said I want real things not this derivative attention deficit jump cut shiny nonsense. I could take the time and cite other more interesting works that are worthy of everyone’s time; but, I won’t cause I do not care for the snapper fish head replies.

So I baited the hook obviously, and I see the fish jumping out of the water around the boat LOL! Let’s see what happens.

Generally I hold all reservations, even when watching a trailer….people when they put out a real shot trailer it usually means click bait….to get those snapper heads clicking that remote to watch nothing but some fast nonsense…..we shall see though.

I think I can save you all some valuable time and effort. Just watch these two clips instead....enjoy!

Thanks for the answer. For me - Alien Universe's robots/androids is the same people, but with synthetics instead of meat inside.

>>>When they start to focus on robots or when the characters are lame that is when I'm losing interest.

I would put "and" instead "or". Indeed, sometimes the writing of human characters is lame. But this is not the fault of the androids as such. I am more than sure that if there were no androids in Prometheus and Covenant - human characters would still be written as they were. It looks like it was a plot angle...

>>>What I meant was that the focus, what the story should be about should be humans that get into situations that they are not well equipped neither materially or mentally to handle.

It seems that all 6 films work so. It doesn't look like this could change.

>>>They had it on the screen as much as it was needed to show us the human adventure, that's how I look at it.

That's right. That's why I'm surprised. I want to say that we did not have a single anti-example.

P.S. I'm only talking about xeno, excluding androids.

P.P.S. OK, we have already seen people as protagonists. We already seen androids as protagonists. Maybe it's time to make Xeno the protagonist?

DK: Aliens did that enough, I am not sure if it is necessary to show more about it. The prequels demystified the Xeno enough so there is a risk that they will destroy Hadley's Hope if they make a movie about it.

Leto

Yes, if you look at Alien you see that a lot of the time is spent on building up the story before they get to the derelict and Kane gets face-hugged. When they get back from the derelict you don't see the monster action a lot compared to the rest. It is using the darkness to hide itself which is the reason why it is so scary when Brett is looking for Jonesy and the creature gets up from behind of him. What you see are humans and how they discuss how they shall kill it and fail and try and they get stressed out and afraid. The monster has very little screen time even though its presence is felt by how they react. Really you could replace the monster even though the Xeno has been tied to the franchise and have another monster and the movie could be very much the same because the theme is the same, namely humans that get put into situations that they are poorly prepared to handle.

Alien 3 didn't have that much time devoted to the monster either. Aliens and AR had fairly much time devoted to them even though the focus were on the humans. The difference is that the human characters worked in Aliens while they were mostly crap in AR, sorry to be blunt but that is my opinion.

"Otherwise, I just don't understand what kind of "focus" we are talking about."

Maybe I wasn't clear enough and if so it was my mistake. What I meant was that the focus, what the story should be about should be humans that get into situations that they are not well equipped neither materially or mentally to handle.

"It doesn't seem like Xeno is suppressing character development or eating up their screen time."

They had it on the screen as much as it was needed to show us the human adventure, that's how I look at it.

Leto: Thanks for asking so I can explain it. I've always been interested in the human thing. In Alien it was human corruption in the form of the company, in Aliens it was that they thought that they could eradicate the monsters with guns, in Alien 3 it was about how humans try to find redemption when they've done horrible things. My interest in the Alien franchise and movies in general has always been the human adventure and maybe Alien Covenant is the reason to why I started to think about it. Yes we had Ash and Bishop that were well done but they're not what the movies were about. When they start to focus on robots or when the characters are lame that's when I'm losing interest.

I don't understand the bias against robots. It doesn't matter on the screen - it all depends on the quality of the role writing.

Thoughts_Dreams

Interesting. Please, explain - are you saying that the franchise is not about monsters, but about people? Alien shouldn't be the focus, right?

I don't quite understand what you mean and how much screen time you want for the Alien. Does your words mean that there was too much time for Xeno in Alien Quadrilogy?

How much Xeno was in Alien? Aliens? Even Alien 3? AR?

Do we need to reduce the screen time of Aliens in these films?

>>>Having them as a part of it is fine but they should not be the focus.

Otherwise, I just don't understand what kind of "focus" we are talking about. From my point of view, none of the six films crowded out people in favor of monsters.

And the monster was in focus for as long as it was supposed to be. It doesn't seem like Xeno is suppressing character development or eating up their screen time.

Technically, there is no evidence that Planet 4 is the homeworld of the Engineers.

Technically, there is also no evidence that the Engineers from Planet 4 are ... Engineers, but not just another humanoids who live in another colony/seeded world.

It may well be that Origae-6 may be the homeworld (or abandoned homeworld) of the Engineers. It will be curious if this is a world infected by Aliens. And It will be also curious if David meets the "classic" Alien.

For the purity of the plot, he will find not a living, but a dead or inactive Alien. And then he decides to return with a load of ovomorphs to LV-223. But will crash on LV-426. Of course, Origae-6 may have sleeping Engineers or even Space Jockeys.

Oh, more robot shit. Not personally aimed at anyone here

 ...

Wow, thanks, setaverde.

I have to watch this.

Visuals are great by the pics and it's made after a book, so story and screenplay should be good. 

Thank you Sir Ridley Scott for this gift!

Disney, have a look and learn.

 Keep it up, BigDave!

All the way to Origae-6!

Sorry but I can't help but to think about the arena scene in Star Wars 2 (Attack of the Clones) where there is a monster that has a horn like a rhino.

BD

Having it being run by AI I something that I am totally against. It would make sense the way you put it but to me it would be to reduce the franchise to AI and robots. That would make me so grumpy because to me that would destroy the franchise if that is the way that it will end up.

"... i think RS ideas are DONE as far as the Franchise."

If that means the end to the robot story then good, if that means that we will not see any more about the engineers it's bad. My reaction to this depends on what we will get. No matter if you support the robot tale or not what we can surely say is that the fans of the franchise are divided about this. Hopefully they will understand that they can elaborate on the Engineers because it is new and is something that is not Ripley or the Xeno. Try to expand on new things in the franchise, the Engineers was a good addition so I don't think that it is impossible to make something new that we haven't seen.

The monsters are not what the franchise is about, to me it is more about humans that get into situations that they are not prepared to handle. I hope that Disney knows this if they shall do anything more Alien-related, if they don't understand it then they might as well not do anything with it as far as I am concerned. Even though I am not a huge fan of the prequels even though there are parts of them that I like I would say that I hope that Disney doesn't think that it is about Xenos and understand that characters are important.

Ripleys are done, there has got to be other characters that you can introduce. I don't think that they should feel that they have got to add Ripley's children, grandchildren or what ever. One of the things that the prequels did right was to not have it tied to her. Make characters that work but don't be so obsessed with what came before. As long as they make characters that work then I think that they have solved a huge bit of the problem.

One of the ideas that they had for Alien 3 was to have it on earth, I am very happy that they didn't do that.

".... how many Fans would accept a ALIEN Movie that has NO Xenomorphs?"

They have had different monsters, as long as they have well done characters it would work. The Neomorph looked very well done. Maybe Disney would play safe with the monsters, but I hope that isn't the case. Having them as a part of it is fine but they should not be the focus.

Maybe this could be something, I don't know. I'm kind of worried that this would mean another movie where we would see a lot of David and I'm against that although I'm not against the idea of the Engineers versus humans. The Engineers could eventually have many different weapons such as spaceships, the goo, big guns, and so on, that could be interesting. Perhaps this sounds like an Aliens 2 but I would rather have that than another Covenant. Star wars has space-battles so it could be something like this or at least what we would see could point us into the direction that we could have a battle like that if they would get close to earth even though we would not get a scene like that.

"How FAR would they take their WRATH?"

What if they find that if an android can be that dangerous then they try to figure out who made it and by that the humans are in danger too. What this could mean for mankind is interesting and this also points to the need for human characters, focus on that and less on robots. You mentioned yourself about creation and sub-creation so that means that we need to have the humans there also and not do another Covenant where they were mostly ignored because Scott wasn't interested in it as you can see in the movie. It was almost like he was interested in the androids and thought "oh shit we got to have human characters too" even though that wasn't his primary concern and we got what we got.

David can be in it as much as Ravel and Chance were in Prometheus, at most. He would have a part in it even though it wouldn't be big. I could tolerate this but not more than that about David, but if he would have another big role like in Covenant then I say leave it alone.

Dark Nebula: I like the picture that you attached with the Engineers.

Dark Nebula:

The Goblin shark thing probably has got something to do with the Deacon. Remember how it looked when it cut through the Engineer in Prometheus, it reminded me of a Shark's fin that first got out before we saw the whole monster. I wonder how many that thought of Jaws when they saw that scene.

Yup, he has interesting ideas and is good to have here even though I disagree with some things that he says. Discussing is interesting even though you don't always agree but I think that there is a possibility to find some common ground.

426, LOL!