New Replies (Page 142)

" wasn't neomorph heavily inspired by the goblin shark?"

To a degree YES...

But so was the Deacon too... both as far as the JAW goes... some of the Concepts for earlier Drafts to AC had the MONSTER of the Movie even looking Quite like a Goblin Shark... 

I will add a LOT of these Concepts seemed to be from 2015 and 2016, we did have those Kang Lee ones from 2014 which are LIKELY to be from a Draft before Dante Harper had wrote his Version of Paradise Lost.

It seems a Shame that he has NOT done any Interviews or Talked about those Concepts.. I also would like to see some of the ideas from the Earlier Drafts.

"Or did they come from another planet where engineers live? If there are other planets where engineers live, how many are there?"

Good Points....

I think we can Assume that the Earth is NOT the only World that they Visit where they have Humanoids.

I think maybe its UNLIKELY that Planet 4 is the ONLY place the Engineers have Worlds... that they Inhabit!

I think we maybe NEED to go back to what the Engineer said before he TORE the Head off David... so Dr Shaw asked him.... David said the Engineer came from PARADISE.  I have mentioned this before a Number of Times and that is we have to maybe PAY some attention to what is Paradise!  Especially in Biblical Context.

*It is NOT where GOD comes from or where GOD exists.

*It is NOT where the Angels come from.

*It is the Cradle of Human Civilization (Garden of Eden)

If we look at other aspects of Paradise BEYOND where the Spiritual Immortal Soul of the Dead goes...the Broader point with this is also that it is a PLACE where ONLY those deemed Worthy can GO/STAY.

So in that Context we could look at Planet 4 being a Place where Humanity (Earth) is NOT worthy of a Place, and that Planet 4 is Certainly NOT where all the Engineers are Located or maybe Originated... and Certainly any Layer of Creation above the Engineers do-not come from Planet 4.

I think another INTERESTING comment that RS had made was that the Engineers are NOT a Race.  They are a Civilization.   And so they have maybe SEEDED many Worlds with Humanoids..... Raised them, Evolved them... and maybe they had TAKEN some of the Worthy to Planet 4 to then Interbreed so we have some Variety of Species and HENCE they are not a Race as per say... RS had said before that just as Humans have many Races, WHY cant the Engineers.

@MonsterZero

I think any ideas from the Past like HR Giger as far as the Ships being able to Grow/Lay the Eggs are what we WONT be seeing.... well its NOT what i think RS would have shown.

This does-not mean the Engineers do-not have the Facilities to MASS Produce the Eggs... so they could still go and Discover the Creation of David and well EVOLVE and MASS PRODUCE them to get to the Cargo on the Derelict.

Now indeed HR Gigers Ideas where Great... they could maybe be Applied to something more ANCIENT but not our Xenomorph from the Franchise via Virtue of Alien Covenant.

I think that for them to Determine as to WHERE it is that David is going WOULD require some way of gaining Information about WHO he is and WHERE he is off too.

This we can only ASSUME would be via WHOEVER is Stranded on Planet 4 from Walter/David.  And it would make more Sense if its David because its a case of HOW does Walter then Communicate with the Engineers.  But thats NOT to say that they Discover David though.  I think its LIKELY that Walter remains on Planet 4

I can only ASSUME as i did prior that the Engineers would Certainly want to Secure/Destroy the LV-223 Outpost or they would Certainly want to Visit their Humanoid Inhabited Worlds and DESTROY those who showed signs of Great Advancements that could be a Space Fairing Threat.

If this is the CASE then the ONLY reason for Earth being in ONE PIECE in the Franchise must be that those Engineers do indeed Learn it was David and they KNOW where he has GONE... and so the Engineers are OFF to GET HIM FIRST....

But they SUFFER a Calamity!

"not knowing which of the colonies destroyed Planet 4) they will arrange a galactic purge"

Exactly LETO... i wrote my Replies before i READ your comments.

You have to think about it from the Engineers Perspective... and you have to ASSUME they Visit the Worlds they Create and Maintain a Certain Level of Technology on those Worlds so that they REMAIN as Advanced as we was Thousands of Years ago.... you WOULD NOT want to give your Creations any Chance of Traveling Space unless you are IN CONTROL of that World as in you Monitor it and have BASES on that World and can Control all Space Travel.

I think if we look at Planet 4 we could ASK to WHY those Engineers look to be NOT so Technologically Advanced?  Well they ARE... its just they ONLY use the Technology for Certain things and they LIVE a more Mundane Life for the most PART like how some Amish Towns are in the USA.

The more Advanced Technology as far as Bio-Mechanical Ships etc are maybe Reserved for Space Exploration, Seeding/Visitation and Destruction.

This TOPIC was to look at the Broad Effect on the Engineers, and i think with RS then YES they would have Found somewhat to Determine that the Culprit was OFF to Origae-6

But you can ASSUME that after this they would SURELY want to go to Earth and PREVENT us from Polluting the Galaxy with our Ways/Culture.... and i dont think they would GIVE us any more Chances.... Especially if the Earth is NOT the only place they had Raised/Evolved and Visited our Species or similar.

HOWEVER..... to NOT go and Conflict with the Franchise, we have to assume that those Engineers who are OFF for Revenge will MEET a FATE of Death!

This could LIKELY be at the Hands of David well his Creations.... and so indeed "Or perhaps the Engineers will win the battle and take the eggs to LV-223 for research"  we cant RULE out the Engineers deciding to TAKE what David had Created and Mass Produce them.. at a GREAT HUBRIS..

Common Sense would be to go to LV-223 get some Ships with Black Goo and Send them out to the Worlds they know have Humans or similar and then if SUCH Worlds show signs of being more Advanced than the Engineers would like... UNLEASH HELL!

I think its likely only a SMALL Number of Engineers return... 1-2 Ships?   They would surely Contact the others or Send a Message....  but then they could have so much ANGER and IF they Discover where the Culprit is going (Origae-6?)  then they would let their Emotion get the Better of them and SEEK out Revenge on the Culprit First!

Deal with the Rest of Humanity Later.... but we know they DONT get to achieve that....

@Ignorantguy

Firstly i would like to say that INDEED who knows if we will ever get another ALIEN Movie or in Particular one that will Consider the After-math of Alien Covenant.  They could just Consider that LV-223 was the Engineers Military Facility and Planet-4 is the Homeworld and that essentially we saw the LAST of the Engineers on LV-223 in Prometheus and that AFTER the Bombardment by David then we have NO-MORE of them left.

It was only RS who indicated their are MORE of them and some would return, but even if there are MORE then who knows IF/WHEN they would return to Planet 4.  And so Indeed even if we get another ALIEN Movie then Disney may choose to Totally ignore or not Cover what the Aftermath on Planet 4 would lead too.

But certainly Regarding the other Comments you made, they are INDEED other Factors we need to Consider.

A Few have brought up about HOW they cant detect where David has gone.....  this is a Good Point.  I am sure that IF we had RS continue with the Prequel Plan then he would have maybe came up with a Reason for HOW the Engineers would be able to EVENTUALLY turn up where David is OFF TO..... or maybe as with say the Egg in Alien 3 they would not BOTHER giving any Plausible Explanation.

I think if we look at what RS had said in regards to EVENTUALLY then some Engineers will RETURN to Planet 4 then we have to look at the Evidence they Discover.

*Toasted Engineer Bodies: Would they recognize what could Cause this?

*Downed Juggernaught: That David used would they recognize where the Ship came from and know what the Cargo was?

*Davids Workshop: Would they be Familiar with similar Horrors and also they would see the Black-Goo Urns and Ampoules.

From this i think the Engineers should surely KNOW that this Place was Attacked with the Bio-Logical Weapon they had on LV-223.   The Chances of ANY of the Engineers having NO idea what LV-223 is.. would be SLIM! Especially any who Leave/Return to Planet 4 because this World is Located near the Zeta 2 Reticuli System.

However to Discover Exactly WHO was responsible and WHERE they are or are FROM/GOING would be more Difficult.

They would come across the Bodies of the Humans, but its a Case of by the TIME the Engineers arrive what is the Condition of those Bodies to make a Identification... the Engineers as Genetic Engineers would likely Determine they are HUMAN however... 

Especially ONCE they check the Juggernaughts Holo-Recordings where they would see that David is in the Likeness of a Human and they would see Dr Shaw.  But also we have Dr Shaws Preserved Corpse and we can ASSUME maybe the Body of Walter/David.

The Question however would be from THIS can they Determine these Humans are from Earth?  The likely way they could do so would be IF the Earth is the ONLY place where our Species is Located.    As i doubt from the Uniforms of the Covenant Dead Crew, and the Lander Wreckage they could Determine that these Humans are from EARTH....  

So if they have say 3, 5, 10, 20 Worlds with Humans then they would have to TRY and Figure out which World these SOB's who have Trespassed came from.

So i think at the VERY LEAST the Engineers who Return would likely know the SHIP came from LV-223, they would likely Determine the Species that Caused this Problem.  Well they would Summarize that it Resulted from such a Species. (David being a Creation of Mankind).

What would be their COURSE of Action?

I would Assume they would GO to LV-223 to Check on that Place and Secure it.... maybe they FELT that to Abandon it was Good Enough.... they was WRONG!

They would have to Determine from WHERE the Intruders had came from... do they know it is EARTH?  If so then you can bet they would be OFF to Earth to DESTROY US.

If the Engineers had kept/raised our Species on Multiple-Worlds then surely they would PAY those Worlds a Visit to Determine the Culprit.... could they EVEN consider that they have to DESTROY all of their Humanoid Creations?

LUCKY for us it seems there has been NO real Impact on Earth, so the Engineers either NEVER returned by the ALIEN Franchise Time-Line or they did but SOMETHING had Happened to them on during their NEXT course of ACTION.

I say that because IF there are Multiple Worlds with Humans from Thousands of Years ago... the Engineers would likely CHECK them off from CLOSEST First which we have to ASSUME would be the Earth.

Has anyone thought of the plot: Engineer starships are living beings? And might GROW the eggs pods----no need for a queen or David to put/plant the eggs there.

Makes sense if the Juggernauts are living,  they at least have a organic/living design. I can see them giving 'birth', maybe to thousands of eggs...just sit on a planet pumping out egg pods.

David feeling pain is hard to wrap my head around...suppose he cries and 'feels' emotion...just programmed to 'fit in' with his human owners? Not scare them?

How FAR would they take their WRATH?

Well, most likely, they don't have digital technology and are unlikely to revive Walter/David. Or otherwise download/receive data from him.

Most likely they will find the crashed ship and Shaw's hologram.

Shaw is a human. Walter looks like a human. And if the Engineers have other colonies with people, then (not knowing which of the colonies destroyed Planet 4) they will arrange a galactic purge - perhaps they will exterminate thousands planets with humans. Perhaps they will find Origae-6, but it will be an accident. They will attack with small forces and this will give David/Walter a chance to win and capture their ship (Derelict). Or secretly "put" xeno eggs on the ship. Which will perfectly explain why the Pilot was infected. And you don't have to invent David with a height of 3 meters or how synthetic can be infected in principle. xDDD

Or perhaps the Engineers will win the battle and take the eggs to LV-223 for research.

But the pilot will be infected and the ship will never arrive at LV-223.

I'm pretty sure David already feels pain. When he was fighting with Walter, he definitely grunted in what seemed like pain.

Pain is actually a pretty useful thing for a sentient being to have, as it's a protective mechanism.

Seems to me...Earth is the Engineers first problem. Earth is the one making androids and sending humans to defile their temples. Earth is the one waging war.

Killing and torturing an Android isn't going to bring back their dead.

They need to cut this virus off at the source.

Maybe they could give David flesh so he can actually feel pain. Then torture him for an eternity. 

BigDave

There are other factors, like how many Engineer missions were there during the events o Planet 4. 1 or just a few? Then probably their anger will lead to nothing and will be annihilated. The last probably will happen if there more of them.

Second to they even remember how their weapons abandoned 2000 would work and how an outbreaks looks like. Also the old question if they didn't event digital circuitry how could they found out where the Covenant left to? Even if they find the disabled android are we sure it is not David himself, as he probably copied himself into Walter, erasing the latter.

But again what is the point? Probably there will be no sequel by Scott.

They will indeed be enraged to find that somebody unleashed their pathogen on their sacred homeworld. All those poor souls.

But my questions are:

Those engineers who return to planet 4, were they on a mission somewhere absent during those 10 years, and then returned to find planet 4 decimated. If yes, where will they go next? Will they go to lv-223?

Or did they come from another planet where engineers live? If there are other planets where engineers live, how many are there? 

They could find out who did it because there is still Shaw and David's juggernaut on planet 4 via those holographic recordings.

And I suppose Walter's body is in the hall of heads so they could tinkle with him and find out where covenant crew was originally headed. Also, I wonder how would they react to David's workshop and the remaining ovomorphs. Will they destroy it all, or will they take samples?

By the time engineers return to planet 4, David will be working on perfecting his creations that he plans to unleash. 

Thanks for sharing this.

I actually prefer the Neomorph design in the actual film over the concept art one, simply because the jaw is much longer and it has spiky teeth.

The Neomorph jaw from concept art looks like that of a chimpanzee.

Besides, wasn't neomorph heavily inspired by the goblin shark?

Thanks for the Share ;)

I actually liked the Neomorph, but i agree the Actual Costume did not Quite look as Good/Polished as the Concept it was Based Off also the CGI Attack Scene (Bitten off Rosenthal Head) also was Flawed.

Its also a shame some of the Prometheus Concepts and Prop work Never made it into the Movie....  Toxic Avenger Fifield was Disappointing.

Certainly SuperAlien

I think that Disney would be better off TRYING to Target a New Audience for the Franchise.  In Principle this TOPIC is aimed at ways they could do that.

By that i mean that Absolutely you are better off to NOT go and Directly Continue the previous Installments.

I dont think you NEED to do any Reboots... i dont think you have to having Anything connected to Ripley, or to LV-426

I do think if they ARE to give a NEW Movie that Covers NEW ground then they ARE going to Need a Monster.  Its a case of WOULD they give something NEW or would they just Reintroduce the Xenomorph?

There are bound to be other Worlds where the Engineers Horrors have ENDED up on?  I think Regardless of WHO is the Creator of the Xenomorph.... i think its UNLIKELY that the Derelict was the ONLY such Ship to be Loaded with that Deadly Cargo!

But then i also DONT think that they have to take us to another Place that Contains those Eggs.

If they wish to Introduce another ALIEN Movie to a Newer/Younger Audience as in those Born after the Original Quadilogy, then maybe you can kind of Re-Invent the Wheel so to Speak and introduce something Similar but not the SAME.

I know Joking you mention the Super-Alien.... but what about the Ultra-Alien?

I think going to a NEW World and introducing something that is based off the Unused Ultramorph Concepts could be a way to Introduce something that is Connected to the Horrors that came from LV-223 without being Directly the Same as the Cargo on LV-426 but yet NOT really that Different like the Deacon/Neomorph were.

"I think right NOW then its more likely we would either get.

*Alien V with Ripley back.

*Alien Movie about Amanda Ripley

*Alien Movie with Marines/Scientist back to LV-426

*AVP Reboot"

BigDave, now that Alien belongs to Disney, I don't think they have any intention to explore any of the paths that are somehow connected to the past. 

They have to target a new audience, not the hardcore fans that never agree where the franchise should head next. Oldtimers like us are not a good investment, very hard to please, nitpicking about this and that. Our rugged army already lost this battle.

Alien will be great again as SuperAlien.

It has to explore new stretches of the universe, kill some fancy ass painted super heroes, outraging the new audience that will wait in disbelief for more sequels where more fancy ass painted super heroes will have a similar fate. But the Alien will inherit the traits of those fancy ass painted super heroes and it will be great again. And darker than we ever thought of.

@Thoughts_Dreams

Indeed i think bringing the Engineers to Earth or Xenomorph would NOT be needed... eventually maybe then YES but they would have to do such a PLOT in a Time-Line of after Alien Resurrection... or surely way after the Time-Line of Aliens.

There are MANY WORLDS that could be Visited that also dont have to be CLOSE to Earth or CLOSE to the Alien/Aliens Time-Line.

The Problem comes from the THREAT that you Face.... how many Fans would accept a ALIEN Movie that has NO Xenomorphs?

If we look at the Concepts for Prometheus/Alien Engineers then the MONSTER we was going to get Featured quite a bit and LOOKED like the Neomorph.

Lets imagine we NEVER got Alien Covenant but we got a Prometheus Sequel that went back to LV-223 and we saw Monsters like that image Unleashed (lot like the Neomorph)  it could come down to WOULD such a different Monster please some Fans as far as they Accept this is a ALIEN Movie that has something different to the Xenomorph?

I think with Disney at the Helm what we would get is something more SAFE that would Detour Less away from ALIENS Anesthetic than even Alien 3 and Alien R Xenomorphs.

With Disney we will get a ALIEN Movie Franchise that has your ALIEN/ALIENS and AVP/AVPR Variants of Xenomorph.

Certainly the Greedy Corporate Types would see others as Totally Expendable, i think HOWEVER with the Revelations of the Prequels then for the Company it makes NO sense to Pursue the Xenomorph when you have Engineers Technology and the Black Goo instead.

Unless by the Time we get to ALIEN then their is NOTHING to be had in this Regard, leaving ONLY the Xenomorph on LV-426

I know some may NOT like this... but looking at the Pursuit of the Xenomorph and Revelation in Alien Covenant it would MAKE sense IF the Company are RAN by A.I and this is WHY they want the Xenomorph as they want their Progenitor (David) very own Masterpiece (Xenomorph).

I do suspect that MAYBE this would be the Final Revelation that RS would have taken us to... that A.I is pulling the Strings and MOST of Mankind are None the Wiser!

However.... we have NOT reached any Conclusion yet, and knowing HOW it would NOT go down well with Most Fans.. i cant see DISNEY going for any such Revelations... i think RS ideas are DONE as far as the Franchise.

I think DISNEY would keep it in the BOX that was the Alien Franchise and so i would NOT expect them to give us much more than just Different Worlds where Xenomorphs will Run Rampant... where we may get a Few Different kinds of Xenomorphs that will be more like the Comic Versions..

By that i mean they will VARY like the NECA Toy Line, but wont STRAY too FAR away like say how the Deacon/Neomorph are.

I think right NOW then its more likely we would either get.

*Alien V with Ripley back.

*Alien Movie about Amanda Ripley

*Alien Movie with Marines/Scientist back to LV-426

*AVP Reboot

Why would Weyland-Yutani want the Alien?

Imagine you are a government or a powerful corporation able to launch missions to other planets, what would you do when you learn of an alien life form? Try to get it. Would you care for the crew? Believe me, if you are a big corporation or a government, you would not care for the people on board if you could cover up their disappearance. Maybe you would not say crew is expendable, but you would definitely think crew is replaceable. The only thing that matters is to get the new source of more money. The people who actually made them rich matter the least.

Did WY know about the Alien before re-routing Nostromo to LV-426? Not necessarily, although the Advent short implies so (IMO Advent is Ridley Scott's premonition he would not do another Alien film - he tried to give us a lead to the back door of Alien or what could have been the sequel to Alien Covenant). WY saw an opportunity to make more money, to get more fame. Simple as that. It's always the greedy apes seizing an opportunity.

To make it easier to understand, replace Weyland-Yutani with Disney.

It happens again!

Ridley Scott is the only visionary I know of.

Interesting, thanks. The Newborn still makes me laugh because it feels so out of place aesthetically. It looks like they had a skeleton and then they poured buckets of melted cheese on it and went from there to what it became. Making something new is not wrong in itself but what they ended up with was a disaster.

That surgery scene in Prometheus is nasty, it really works. It is probably the scene in Prometheus that made me feel the most uncomfortable.

I like both the Predator image and the pictures that are connected to Alien Covenant. This shows that there are things connected to the movie that can be enjoyed even though the movie is the way that it is.

BD

That is alright, I didn't take any offense from it. I will ignore it by not watching it but I think that I should have my right to say what I want concerning what ever I want, it is not like I am threatening anyone's life. Scott might do a lot of good looking things and have some interesting ideas so it is not like I am anti-Scott but I do not think that his ideas is what the franchise needs to stay afloat. He can do those things but in another franchise.

To not get any more alien movies would be a bit sad but I would rather have no movies than new ones that I do not like at all. In case they can not get stories and characters right then maybe it is time to move on, even though I would not like the franchise to get into that position.

". . . because i ASSUME that your Concern and Reason for the Comment is that IF we see RS do WELL with this and its about A.I you would be Concerned that Disney would allow RS to make more ALIEN Movies that would CENTER around A.I"

You are right, that is what I meant even though I might not have expressed it in the best way possible. I want to have alien movies where the human journey is at the center and then the robots could be a part of it but they should not be the focus. Alien Covenant is disappointing as it is so if this does well enough and that makes them do another Alien movie like Covenant with another robot focus then it would be worse than Covenant because then they have not listened or learned from what went wrong with AC. Ridley is interested in androids but not enough Alien fans seem to find that interesting for the franchise to be profitable (which is what matters to the movie companies, like it or not), I know that I am not.

A mix between Marvel characters and Alien? That would make AVP look good so I agree that it would most likely be a disaster. I don't think that the alternative is between androidism or a Marvel-ish kind of alien franchise though.

Humans are probably a mix of genetics and the environment. You mention if Hitler had a twin and was raised in a better environment then I guess that things could have ended up different for him.

"The Androids i feel maybe would in Context be come to be seen as TWO Factions of Engineers... both with Concerns of Mankind.... both with a Different Attempt to Deal with it."

Yeah maybe but they would probably get a lot of screen-time and be a big part of the story, something that I would not like to see.

BD

Exploring new worlds could be very interesting. Maybe the Engineers have been to those worlds and if so it would be interesting to see what they have done there. Prometheus despite of all its faults did something right by bringing us the Engineers.

Maybe they have visited new worlds and kind of like terraforming they have tried to make the planets habitable. If they terraformed LV426 in Aliens then who knows what the Engineers with their technology are able to do? They don't have to go to Origae-6, there could be other planets in the galaxy.

I am not sure if it is necessarily to have the engineers going to earth. Maybe there are more interesting ways to handle that? One of the ideas for Alien 3 was to have it on earth (Eric Red was the one that I think made that draft), let me say that I was happy that they didn't make a movie based on that.

They can throw Alien Resurrection on the garbage pile as far as I am concerned but don't touch Alien 3. You wrote about the possibility to reduce Alien 3 and Resurrection to being dreams. I like how you summarized it in that bullet list about what people want and don't want because it makes it easy to follow.

You don't need to have the Xeno in it but maybe have some that are tied to it and some that are not. My interest here is how the goo can be used to make different life-forms and also how the Engineers deal with it.

". . . thinking its some kind of Ancient Jar with NO threat... and we get a Outbreak/Infection this way."

Maybe it would not be a totally bad idea. One thing that worries me is that we will get another crew that goes out on a planet with no protective gear a la Covenant. You got to have smarter things than that to advance the story.

Egg-morphing seems interesting. I don't think that we have seen that in any theatrical version, right?

"Then would SUCH a Movie (Provided Characters are Good) would this been seen as a ALIEN Movie?"

If you have ties to the movies that came before it and if these are clear enough and not as vague as in Prometheus then sure why not. There are other things in the franchise than just Xenos. About the Engineers and their bio-weapons, what if there are other worlds in the franchise that has intelligent life that the Engineers would feel threatened by? Maybe those worlds would get the goo treatment so to speak so they would not think about spreading to other galaxies and therefore in a way start to make the Engineers worried? Perhaps I am not making sense here, my thoughts go into different directions.

The pictures of the spider alien that you posted look very interesting. I am not sure if you should show them to people that are afraid of spiders though. ;)

SuperAlien

You are right, they never explained that much what it was about, special order 937. What we got to know was what it said on the screen, which is what Ash repeated. Perhaps it was more to it than that. I don't think that it's a problem if we never get to know more what it's about other than what Ash told them. Some things should be left up to the imagination. Ripley definitely has a reason to be stressed out because what it says is that the employer doesn't give a F is they are killed. This is my take on it

BlackAnt

The Engineers are interesting and I am also interested in the roots of humanity, where we came from. What I don't like is to practically make it come off as a movie that is about the android, no matter if the theme is hubris, AI, free will, what ever. I am and have never been interested in the franchise because of the robots/androids and I don't want to see a movie about them in the Alien universe. Ash and Bishop worked because they were a part of the story but it was never their movie so to speak and the human characters were a lot better.

Michael Fassbender as David was much better in Prometheus and he could have worked if they would not have made him into such an asshole but he still works because I honestly find the differences between Walter and David to be interesting, their personalities and their views about things. Despite Walter and David being somewhat interesting the human characters were too weak and it was too much about the robots. The idea of David as the creator of the Xeno is just so bad story-wise. People have thought about where they Xeno might come from and how it came to be and they make it into a result of a bored robot. . . that we created? *face-palm*

My complaint has never been about Fassbender as an actor but rather that it is too much about the robots. I haven't watched that many Fassbender-movies but at least it seems that he gets enough to work with. If there is a movie that he is in that seems interesting enough I might watch it but unfortunately it is too much about the androids in the prequels, at least in Covenant which make the prequels worse than they could have been. The ideas about creation, technology, where we come from, and all those philosophical things are interesting but they are poorly executed in the prequels. Interesting ideas - poor execution - for the most part poorly done characters.

I think that the backburster was great even though the guy was without personality like most of the characters. As far as I remember it David, Walter, Oram, and to some degree Faris had personality the rest had none that I could see at least and also those that had were pale compared to 1, 2, and 3. Pale compared to does not mean that they need to be as good as the first three but they should have been done better. Get someone that understands the importance of human characters and that can write them otherwise forget it. People got to be able to see parts in themselves when it comes to the characters or at least find them interesting and until that level is reached we'll continue getting disappointing alien movies, that's my guess.

The scene where David bombs the Engineers was good, I agree although it would be cool if there would have been some of them alive that we would see if the movie. What about the humans against the Engineers and David? Maybe this could work although I am far more interested in the Engineers, their side of the story.

I would like to see more about the Engineers and their connection to the Xeno if it would ever be made. Having a company like WY could be interesting although it does not need to be at the forefront in the prequels. Prometheus was not total trash and also some of the deleted scenes would have made the movie so much better.

"David did not wipe them all out. . . he may have wiped out an older outpost of theirs; but, one of many."

That is what I also hope was the case. People live in different towns so I doubt that it was the only place where Engineers lived. Hopefully it will look more menacing and interesting in the next movie if we will get one but it has got to have much better human characters, more and better looking Engineers, and be less about androids.

Leto

I would say that we have had the company in the background because it has always been a important part of it plus it ties the franchise to real world problems. What they have not done that much it to keep it more in the foreground so to speak. This could be done in an interesting way plus it is more about real world things compared to what made us which could go into what ever direction really and has a larger probability of effing up. Having parts about creation is not wrong depending on how you make it but to have it connected to real world problems meaning things that affect people in a large scale is something that makes the franchise work. Relating to corporate greed is easier to relate to, to me at least.

AC did not have the corporation at all but that is not why it failed. I am sorry to say it but I am not interested in the android thing at all. They could have it as a small part but I do not want to have it as the main theme so to speak.

Sorry but I don't care about David, to me he is done. I accept that some people might enjoy it and while I am okay with people liking different things I got to say that I have no interest in it. The Engineers could be interesting if they do it right but there has got to be some mystery left about them.

Medical potential of the alien could work depending on how it would be done. Perhaps the medical companies are up to things that WY is also. This could work, depending on how it is done. I do not suggest having another guns and bugs movie because we already have Aliens. We could get more information about the company but we don't need to everything, that goes for David, the Engineers, and other things.

I too would like to see the Engineer unverse greatly expanded on. So much potential there. But if it is, for the most part it should retain big elements of mystery. It would be an absolute tragedy, for example, if we ended up with some boring drivel like Star Trek, where aliens sit around a table with humans discussing matters in an American accent.

I thought Disney's efforts with The Mandalorian were reasonably good; better than I expected and in some ways an improvement on recent Star Wars movies. But it's still a little tame and family-friendly. In an Alien/Engineer universe I want to see material that is decidedly family-hostile!

To get to a more Serious aspect.....   then indeed the ALIEN Franchise in Light of Prometheus could open up us to MANY Worlds, MANY Races and NEW Horrors... and from the Perspective of DISNEY i think thats something they should Concentrate on and it gives them more they can do with a Franchise.... but they could EXPLOIT this into a Gung Ho! Action Multiple Alien Species Fight Fest!

The Franchise also could be explored in SPIN-OFFS!

The Weyland-Yutani company has more to it than just wanting to OBTAIN a Xenomorph... unless we look DEEPER into WHY they would be so Obsessed.

The Colonial Marines have been on other BUG HUNTS... what quite that means, it may not be other Hostile Alien Threats but it could be...  Also by Virtue of them having some time out with the Arcturian Poontang could indicate that Mankind had encountered Alien Species after the events of ALIEN but NOT quite anything like the Xenomorph for the most part.

The Themes of Creation/Sub-Creation and Rebellion  may not appeal to most though.... but i think the A.I arc is interesting Especially when we PONDER about the AUTONS

But i think the ENGINEERS Plot is what can give us  SPIN-OFF that is Set FAR FAR away...

Star Wars is set in a Galaxy Far Far away and thus does-not impact Earth....

If you look at the Caprica/Galactica Plot then with regards to the ENGINEERS then who is to know HOW many Worlds in our FAR Reaches of the Galaxy or other Galaxies have Humans plus other Humanoids.

Looking at this Expanded Universe is maybe where Disney could look to Expand/Exploit this Plot (Multiple Worlds/Races).

A Superman Alien .... nah i think the HULK-MORPH would be better ;)

Regarding the kids, well on one hand what may have Scared kids in the 60's/70's and 80's would not have the same Effect on kids from the 2000's on-wards... as far as Aesthetics...  they become more accustomed to Horrific Forms and Blood.  Due to the ease of Access and Detail in Games and Comics compared to back 30+ years ago.

I tend to see that the Newer Generation do-not really go for Gore Horror much, its more the Possessed, Zombie kind of Horror stuff nowadays and also they seem to be more into Action, Explosions and Big Epic Crash/Destruction Scenes.  Sometimes maybe the Attention Span seems LESS for those Born from the 90's and i dont mean everyone just seems to more a Higher % will kinda Fall Asleep without ACTION...

I only know 2 People born from the 90's who have seen the ALIEN Movies... one is now 23 the other 21 and they ONLY like ALIENS, AVP and One likes Resurrection but they dont like the others lol  They are BIG Fans of Dead Pool, Amazing Spiderman and New Spidermen, the X-Men Movies etc etc.

Mind you as a kid i was not really Scared of any Movies not that i can ever Recall..... but a FEW Disturbed me.... such as The Thing and its only the Dog Town Scene. Oh and the Dog from The Fly 2 so its more a case of having Sympathy for the Dogs ha ha ha!

With people Dying in Movies most of the Time it dont bother us.... lol....  Maybe i am bit too much like my NAMESAKE!

dk, kids are always curious and easily corrupted by many horrible things. The problem is nobody watch over them anymore, so I believe a pre-teen kid nowadays has seen many more monsters than his parents.

A SuperAlien chestbursting from the Superman himself would attract more kids (parents and grandparents included) into the theaters than a Deacon chestbursting from an Engineer. Who could feel for an Engineer, even knowing he was the last of the Engineers? But you did like Superman when you were a kid, didn't you?

Now, that's what I call kid friendly.

SuperAlien Kid friendly is different from when I was a kid. Things that pass as kid friendly now were considered adult material when I was a kid in the 70s. 

I have seen a few clips from Star Wars shows depicting Storm Troopers  heads on stakes and while interesting, this would have been a no no back then for kids.

Maybe some have an antiquated notion of what is kid friendly these days and not enough credit is given to younger people.

The pics Leto posted may have likely caused kids to be afraid 30 plus years ago, but might engage interest and fascination now with that demographic.

Cool. Where did you get that from,Leto?

It looks like cabbage when it's folded. 

We should have a museum dedicated to Alien, safe haven for all those brilliant props, sets and drawings. 

Ridley Scott is right, this franchise has the potential to be as big as Star Wars, the only thing that was missing was the kid friendly part, but now, in Disneyland, they could fix that too.

Leto that Certainly was Interesting a lot of Davids Notes and Life he found does indicate he had been using the Black Goo to Extract and Combine Various Traits from Various Organisms to achieve his Masterpiece.

I think the Wonder of going to NEW Worlds is to see how Varied the Environments and Life-Forms are, even regarding the Native Species...... 

A Newly Discovered World can be VERY Interesting.... but then VERY Horrific after the Pathogen is Unleashed.

I think the ALIEN Franchise had the Scope to NOT be restrained to Ripley and Xenomorphs, which i know is what the Franchise is Recognized for..

But there are other Elements at play.... Weyland-Yutani company History, Rivalry and WHAT else they do apart from Chase after Xenomorphs..   The Colonial Marines as ALIENS was not their First Bug Hunt and maybe NOT their First.   Then you have the Engineers and by Virtue of their Plot this OPENS up many Worlds, many Species which dont have to be Intelligent Humanoids....

These could all be Interesting before we even add the Pathogen or A.I Elements.

I think with ALIEN what it should symbolize is the Humanity Journey to the Depths of Space for whatever reasons that may be.. Colonization, Resources etc or purely Scientific Exploration..... then its going to ALIEN Worlds and Encountering a Threat... 

But for some you cant STEER from the Xenomorph.. well certainly have to have something Connected and so within context to the ALIEN Franchise i think you can introduce a ALIEN threat that is Connected either by being linked to the Experiments with the Black Goo/Result of the Pathogen or even Explore something that had STARTED all those Experiments.

I think you can make new Adventures in the ALIEN Franchise it would be just getting the Mainstream to look Beyond that a ALIEN Movie does not have to be about the Xenomorph on LV-426.

But i do think you can go back to the Xenomorph maybe for 1-2 more rounds if its done right and a bit different.

It was. And it was really cool!

"An oyster shell with fingers would make for a great new variant on a face hugger."

interesting. I imagine David had a similar revelation during his experiments on Planet 4.

BigDave wrote: "Emphasis on A.I and David"

I think of David as a walking, talking version of Weyland Corp. He is a product of inbreeding. ..Walter/Bishop/Call on the other hand, are products of two different parents, Weyland and Yutani... Maybe? 

The Engineer's armored glove reached for him. The shield surrounding David 'crackled' with energy.  “Ahh...temper, temper”, David mouthed to the Engineer; sound waves not traveling outside his shield.  The heavily armored Engineer took a step back. David then stopped lightwaves from penetrating his shield.

"Exploration of New Worlds/Threats seems to be what is more appealing.

Prometheus never had the Xenomorph but maybe it needed something similar, Alien Covenant never really needed a Xenomorph."

Very very true.

I don't think we need to undo what AC gave us. There's plenty of scope to take the story off at a complete tangent.

I went to an oyster bar in Whitstable yesterday. I was looking at some slimy wet oyster innards on my plate thinking how much they looked like the upturned face hugger (I'm sure the prop had a few when Bishop was tampering). But also the shell of the oyster... knobbly, hard, organic, asymmetric... very creepy and alien. An oyster shell with fingers would make for a great new variant on a face hugger.

But looking at the Comments on this TOPIC i think i can conclude a few things..

*It seems that more seem to be Interested in SOME of the things that Prometheus had Opened Up.  The Engineers being a Particular interest.

*It seems to be a Pretty Mixed Bag when it comes down to the Themes of Prometheus in context to Creation/Sub Creation.

*It seems to be a Pretty Mixed Bag when it comes down to the Emphasis on A.I and David... mostly the Xeno Creator Plot struck a Nerve with many.

*Seems that only a SMALL Proportion think we have to have Movies about the Xenomorphs.

*Exploration of New Worlds/Threats seems to be what is more appealing.

And so its as i said before on this TOPIC.... would the Fans accept a ALIEN Movie which does-not have the Xenomorph?

Prometheus never had the Xenomorph but maybe it needed something similar, Alien Covenant never really needed a Xenomorph.

so LETS go BACK and Change/Assume either or BOTH of these TWO things.

*Planet 4 was Located MUCH further away.

*David does-not go to Planet 4

Then if we go to the COVENANT MISSION and say that goes ahead BUT they DONT suffer any Malfunctions.

So the Covenant Ship and its Crew/Colonist make it to Origae-6 intact.

So imagine if Alien Covenant never happened as it did but instead we have it be about the Covenant Ship reaching ORIGAE-6!

Imagine as they Set Down on the Surface with NO threat and all seems FINE... they begin to BRING down Many parts of the Covenant.   They then go off to another Location thats FAR from any Lake... well where they had decided to SET UP their Base.

They Discover in what seems to be a Long Dead Jungle or Burred under Sand some remnants of a Ancient City, and then some Dead Humanoid Figures maybe TALLER than Humans.

They then come to a Water Source (if near Jungle) and by this we have the NEOMORPH SPORES... and the Neomorph is Introduced this WAY!

Or if the Ancient Ruins are discovered mostly Buried in Sand then they could uncover some Open Urns but then a CLOSED ONE... so they take that back to Base Camp thinking its some kind of Ancient Jar with NO threat... and we get a Outbreak/Infection this way.

Which ever route be it the Neomorph or some other Horror we could SHOW them go and Procreate via a Egg Morph... from these come some NEW kind of Face Hugger.

which Capture Hosts and Implant a Embryo (these Face Huggers do-not die after doing this and can infect Multiple Hosts)  then you have Chest Busters to give us another Monster that is a little Different to what had transpired already on Origae-6.

Then would SUCH a Movie (Provided Characters are Good) would this been seen as a ALIEN Movie?

You would make the Connection via the Weyland-Yutani Company Ship, and the Ancient Ruins and Urns would link to the Engineers.

Where we would be lead to that THIS was a World that had suffered a Bombardment of Black Goo at some point THOUSANDS of Years ago.

The Reason i mention this is that i feel the Neomorph was connected to the Xenomorph, we could see some Connection and so you DONT have to have Monsters that are a CARBON Copy as long as they either have something we can make a Connection to the Black Goo/Deacon/Xeno either Aesthetically or via its Life-Cycle/Procreation.

And while we did get AC.....  i think we CANT rule out that the Engineers had USED their Black Goo on some Worlds and wonder what HORRORS had came from this... because what Alien Covenant had shown was that the Neomorph was the Outcome on that World...   and i think its UNLIKELY the Engineers had NOT been and TESTED the Bio-Weapon on a World before.

I think its Important to remember we are talking about SCI-FI and so your allowed some Creativity and to Curve the Lines of what is Science and what is Fiction/Fantasy ;)

I think the Franchise is already Confined to a BOX, which Prometheus had opened up but with Alien Covenant we have ONLY explored a CLOSE part of Space to Earth.

I think there is MASSIVE SCOPE to explore NEW Worlds, which our Imaginations can run Wild....

If we ever got a Sequel to Alien Covenant then MAYBE it would take us to Oriage-6 which would BE the Furthest we have Traveled in  the Franchise.  As it would seem that Oriage-6 would be about 350LY away.  But there is the Potential to go to other worlds Located 500, 700, 1000 or even 1500LY away within the Franchise.. especially the LATTER we go in the Time-Line

I think for some it may seem Interesting to bring the Beast or Engineers home to Earth.... but we have to bare in MIND this would Conflict the Franchise.... UNLESS it was revealed that Alien 3 and Alien R were merely Dreams!

However....... maybe you could introduce them to our Solar System another way?

I think it was GAVIN who proposed a PLOT about Discovering a Juggernaught at the BOTTOM of the Ocean.

In Light of Alien Covenant then i find it unlikely we would have EGGS on such a Ship that has been at the Bottom of the Sea for Thousands of Years... but as far as BLACK GOO!  well that could be Explored.

What happens when the Cargo of Black Goo becomes Disturbed or Unleashed?

I'm really bored. LOL!

Yeah, me too.

BigDave 's been missing for some time ;)

 MonsterZero

The entire point of controlling time is to change enough of it.

Time and space, are all constructs that are interdependent for all of eternity....everything is always changing no matter what you measure it with or from where.

The entire universe around you is like a giant battery...in time all particles reach another equilibrium of a lower energy state ending in decay. 

This requires a very long time but that energy in the reaction you see around you does slow down eventually.

This is of course if you believe in only things that require the Higgs field...I have no doubt there will be something found beyond the plank constant beyond the Higgs field.

Black holes might hold quantum information for a longer period of time but they eventually change....there is no separate place in the entire universe from the entire universe.