New Replies (Page 159)

@Leto

You make some Valid Points in regards to when i was talking about By-Passing.

What i mean is that Movies do By-Pass certain Periods of Time, with Alien Covenant, there are Periods that are NOT Necessary to cover in Detail in a Movie, such as WHAT it was that Dr Shaw had done after she Collected David to when they Left LV-223 in a Juggernaught. We had The Crossing which Summarized a bit of what they did between leaving LV-223 until we saw David Arrive at Planet 4.  There is quite a bit that HAPPENED after the Bombardment, what happened to Dr Shaw and HOW long was she alive, did any Engineers Survive for a while, more Detail on what David was doing to obtain his Beastory

There was NO need to cover these as there are Clues and Evidence to what Happened...

So this is what i mean by you could By-Pass a lot of what David would do NEXT....

We can Assume he is off to Origae-6 which will take him 7 Years and 4 Months, we dont need to see much about what he does during that Time, would he Continue his Experiments  on the Covenant and its Crew during the Journey?  We dont really need to spend a lot of time on this... ONLY any Results.

When he gets to Origae-6 what does he do then? Does he awaken some of the Colonist and begin to Build the Cabins and the Infrastructure the Colony would need to begin (surely pretending to be Walter). So again we dont need to see a lot of WHAT KIND of a World he would Build.

Looking at what RS had said then the Movie would NOT have been about Xenomorphs but about A.I and he also claimed the Replicants are A.I and so what he is talking about is indeed Artificial Life if we look at A.I as being solely Connected to a Artificial Set of Computing that can act as a Intelligence.

We can ONLY really Speculate on what his Next Movie would have been but i would say that the First Act and likely a Hour of the Movie would show us what ever he has Helped to Build/Create, as in we could see some kind of Colony Established and likely David is not playing the Humble Servant Walter....

So what we would have is David in his Paradise that he has Created that WOULD NOT be a Xenomorph Nest..... and then we would be seeing some incoming Parties which means at least ONE other Human Ship, which their Arrival and Revelations could UPSET the Paradise/Colony that David has set up.   Then the ENGINEERS would likely Rock Up in the 3rd Act.

It would have been LIKELY the Next Movies 3rd/Final Act would have introduced the Engineers and Ships, and these would be the Introduction to HOW it is Eventually we get the Derelict.

The Process of the Evolution/Engineering of the Eggs to become what we got in ALIEN and the Eggs getting on the Derelict and Explaining WHY it was in the Vicinity of LV-223/LV-426 before we get the Space Jockeys event are all LIKELY what a 3rd Connecting Movie would have shown.

The Problem is a LOT of Fans would see this as a Process where the Emphasis was again on/about David and Creation, and Knowledge and Control (restricting Truth/Knowledge) and so would NOT please Fans who just want to get to ALIEN already....  i dont think many Fans would want to SIT though a Movie that will NOT give us the Xenomorph again and NOT show us HOW/WHEN/WHY we get to ALIEN/LV-426

Which is WHY i said that maybe they would be better off giving us a SINGLE Movie that Connects to ALIEN were a Human Ship does arrive at Oriage-6 where they would be expecting by NOW that the Colony would be Set Up.

They get NO Signal, No Reply but they detect that a Colony is down their, and we see that a Basic Colony has been Built but as we Touch Down we arrive Years or Months after something has GONE very WRONG!

You then in the 2nd Act introduce some Returning Engineers and the Final Act would be showing a Engineer Ship leaving with Eggs on-board but NOT show us where it was going... so we have some Ambiguity here.

"PEST CONTROL"

I like this.

The eggs won't be a problem for the majority of living docile animals...A somewhat peaceful planet is the result.

Curious and large animals will be their target.

Earth would have been far different with a billion or so ovomorphs laying in wait.

Wonder if there are any dinosaur chest bursted fossils? 

"then in order to Confine it to a single Movie you would have to BY-PASS quite a LOT."

A lot of what? Stages of preparation? Spend 2 hours and about 10 years more on a film that is destined to become another prologue?

I heard it before Prometheus. That film was supposed to be the first part, the prologue of a new series of films.

I heard it before Covenant. This movie made U-turn was supposed to be the first part, the prologue of another new series of films.

And now you wants to spend ~10 years for another sequel, but actually prologue? Do you really want it? Ridley already had two chances to make a prologue and a middle film. Now he must take off the last one. Or not. But no "new starts."

"If a Alien Covenant Sequel was to do the same and IN EFFECT to go and By-Pass the Events"

But what events? About how David is building a bungalow? Or how he blissfully walking in the woods and looked at the trees? Or how does he conduct experiments in vitro? Or plays the flute and speaks poetry?

There is no doubt - this will give us a lot of information about xenomorphs, engineers and in general about understanding the world of franchise! We can spend 2 hours playing the flute and about 10 years of waiting for the next film!

Undoubtedly the themes of immortality and AI are worth keeping the franchise hostage. The franchise about alien monsters, civilizations and technologies.

Evolution doesn't work like that. But some kind of alchemy - yes. And if you followed the news about AC, then you know that Ridley said that the creation of the Alien would not be evolution, but rather alchemy. Oh, and now he's talking about evolution. This, plus his words about AI (he clearly confuses Artificial Intelligence and Artificial Life) make it clear that sometimes he does not understand what he is talking about.

Why do we have to complicate what is easy?! 

Ridley Scott has to follow the events of Alien Covenant and then, he has to make a hell of a movie.

Ridley,  you have to go crazy. Put David experimenting on colonists, in his new giant lab built in origae six, put David experimenting in himself with the pathogen, in a sick and disgusting way. Use the bloomkamp's idea of a deformed Ripley in David. Make a slaughterhouse of prometheus space ship, and show us long flashbacks of the life of David and Doctor Elizabeth Shaw in LV-223,mostly, Dave attempting to transform Shaw in a queen, causing her lots of pain, during the procedures. Make a parallel between the past transformation of Shaw in a queen and present Daniels mutation.  We want to watch the horror, Ridley. 

I wonder how Aliens would have turned out with Egg Morphs, instead of the having a queen and ovomorphs?

We can only speculate. That is why the prequels should go where they go and not be expected to link up directly to Alien. That ship has sailed imo. The prequels can go in new directions and I know as a fan, I would be ok leaving the Quadrilogy alone.

 "...HOWEVER is that they Procreate via the Egg Morph."

I wonder how Aliens would have turned out with Egg Morphs, instead of the having a queen and ovomorphs?

More cosmic horror and less a bug hunt? hmmm...

1) A Natural Organism that could be Exploited to be used as a KILLING MACHINE by Virtue of how Aggressive and Destructive the Organism is.

Eggs are cool, but I like black goo or spores better...they make sense, but pods and facehuggers make much better props and toys!

I'd think the indigenous species would quickly figure out egg pods are bad and to avoid them...and stop taking them back to their homes/ships.

Do we think one xeno could decimate an entire planet(or at least a continent)? That would be a interesting story.

@LtCmdr Jack Archer

Yeah we had that indication in the Novel, but the Draft that the Novel was Written from did-not have any of this and was more closer to Alien Covenant so it appears the Author ADF decided to add that to CAST some doubt on David being the Creator, but this is a Subject that has been Discussed on here a bit and not really what the OT is intended to discus.

But as far as HOW the Xenomorphs can Procreate and Royal Jelly, these have not been Explored in the Movies but Certainly something to Consider.

Regarding the Purpose of the Eggs well they are MERELY the Starting Stage of the Xenomorph Life form... which as Leto had indicated we could look at it in TWO ways.

1) A Natural Organism that could be Exploited to be used as a KILLING MACHINE by Virtue of how Aggressive and Destructive the Organism is.

2) A Engineered KILLING MACHINE used as a Weapon again by Virtue of its Ability to KILL.

I am thinking we could EXPAND the Purpose... go back to Starbeast and Turn it on its HEAD...   and well WHAT IF the Starbeast are a LOT in Common with David/Walter ;)

But looking Beyond Physical Aesthetic ;)

Humans are Mortal, the Engineers are Mortal...  David has the Potential to be IMMORTAL and what in maybe a similar way IF the Starbeast was likewise?

David holds a KEY to Immortality..... if only mankind could UNLOCK that.... their is a Difference between Our Soul and His Soul.... one for Certain can be Immortal ;)

Maybe the Engineers saw the Starbeast as a means to Immortality ;)  #Ripley8

Absolutely Leto....

The Franchise Evolves/Changes as it goes along, Each Director does try and put their own Stamp on things.

It all began with ALIENS in regards to a Steering Away more from O'Bannon and Shusett initial Idea but we have to remember that ALIEN had changed things a bit regarding Giler and Hill.

But certainly looking back to STARBEAST then the Eventual Portrayal of in Effect merely Advanced Space Ants... or even a Eventually a Creation by a Synthetic Robot that is UPSET with his Creators... are BOTH not really what the Potential a Sequel to ALIEN could have led to... or a Prequel.

"But there is a third way. From the real creators of the monster"

so your REPLY is Certainly along the Lines i was trying to Engage people to think about ;)

When i talk about the Purpose of the Egg, i am also looking at to WHY we got to the Egg.  As you pointed out about 1) Ridley thinks the Alien is a biological weapon. and also 2) Cameron thinks the Alien is a natural, wild form of life

Before we got to Alien Covenant we could have gone the route of (1) from (2) in that the Engineers saw this Organism and Felt they could USE it as a Bio-Weapon which seemed to be what the Companies thought in the ALIEN Franchise.

To be fair this is kinda of what ALIEN ENGINEERS had indicated that the Engineers had encountered a Organism that they then had Experimented on and Engineered a Biological Weapon in 8 Variants that they intended to use on Earth.

With such a PLOT it has to be then to explore WHY? and this could lead to HOW/WHY was this Organism that predated the Experiments on (LV-426/LV-223) seen to have Potential as a Weapon and then WHAT was this Organism like Naturally before the Engineers had encountered it.

Unfortunately it appears the Xenomorph/Egg are just a Experiment or Consequence.... its Story has a Background but i am not sure it can be tied to the STARBEAST..

This does-not mean that the Starbeast cant be Explored, for this could be another Organism the Ancestor to the Xenomorph, Deacon, Neomorph and all those Experiments.. a Organism that would be SIMILAR and yet Different to what we have seen so FAR.

The Starbeast Concept is Interesting... what we see is a Organism that has a Similar Life-Cycle to the Xenomorph, what we are shown HOWEVER is that they Procreate via the Egg Morph.

The Interesting thing about Starbeast however is that its indicated that this ORGANISM could actually develop some form of Civilization what we essentially had in Starbeast was a Abandoned Birthing Facility, the Eggs/Spores only remained.  And our Starbeast/Xenomorph is merely a Juvenile  that has NO Civilized Adult to Nurture it.

If we take a Human and imagine that we GROW from a Baby to Adult much Faster and a Baby has the ability to Hunt and Feed itself on Instincts...  This Human left on a Island with None of its Species will GROW it will HUNT and try and SURVIVE... it would not be able to Talk, Create a Culture/Civilization on its OWN!

Drop down on a New World say Origae-6 a Group of say 10 Adult Humans and 20 Children and BRAIN WIPE them all.

And they are NOT going to Build a Rome in 10 Years ;)

So thats basically what we had with Starbeast/Xenomorph and with ALIEN it seemed RS wanted to explore the Intelligence of the Organism more and Expand on this in a Sequel.

So Potentially then YES you could go the route of Discovering the Precursor to those Experiments on LV-223, you could have the STARTING point as the Xenomorph but with Alien Covenant it kind of causes a Problem..  But we could surely Explore something that Predates LV-223 with a Organism that is similar and YET still Different.

Could this STARBEAST be revealed as the Mural Organism something that is like a Amalgamation of Xenomorph, Deacon and Neomorph?

Could it be the Creature in the Fresco?

But then we NEED to go and look at WHY would the Engineers come into Contact with this Species and see that it has a use to be Engineered to make KILLING MACHINES.

Because going from above and what i have discussed here then what we have is the EGG/SPORE is just the Starting Point of a Organism that without Nurturing by its OWN kind can become a Killing Machine and that Re-Engineering this Organism could make more EFFICIENT KILLING MACHINES

What i am thinking about is looking at the  Connection the Engineers have and WHY and from this i think we could come to TWO kinds of Story that give more PURPOSE to the EGG than what we have seen.

For me again the Answer lies with the Starting Point  Plot by Jon Spaights  as in Alien 01 The Master Narrative)  and the End Product... Alien Resurrection ;)

Within those could give us the REAL Purpose ;)

Clue would be with when Ridley Scott said that Prometheus was about IMMORTALITY ;) oh and A.I

"Actually, I am fine with the Quadrilogy being self contained and separate from the prequels"

Certainly DK this appears to have been the Intention at the point they Evolved/Changed the Draft from Alien Engineers to Paradise which then became Prometheus.

Unfortunately it seems those in Charge Felt that Fans wanted to see the Xenomorph back and its Origins shown and eventually lead us to HOW/WHEN those Eggs got on the Derelict which leads us to Alien Covenant which by Virtue of its Plot has caused a Stink and NOT pleased those Fans who wanted the Answer and Xenomorph, while also Throwing Away the Potential that a Prometheus 2 had(more about Dr Shaw and her attempts to get Answers from the Engineers).

"The problem with that kind of thinking is why the franchise (and the prequels) got into limbo"

To a degree this is what the Original Franchise had done apart from Alien 3 i think that Prometheus Fell into the same Boat as the other Movies..

While INDEED with Alien Covenant it definitely had LENT itself to NEEDING a Conclusion and this is the Pickle we are in.  The Problem we have is WHERE to we go instead?

Another Movie that is NOT directly connected to the Prequels or  the Alien Franchise, but what would that entail?  Human Ship goes off to a World and Discovers a Egg, or they Intercept a Floating Space Hulk (Derelict/Abandoned Ship) that has a Egg.   This is kind of Familiar Territory that we have already seen,  the Main Difference would come from NOT having any Greedy Person or Corporation trying to Exploit the Xenomorph.

I personally done see much more Millage with the Xenomorph if it Continues to be used/confined in way that it was in the Franchise.

If it was a Engineered Bio-Weapon then you need to look more at the Story of WHY and by WHOM, and also at WHAT other uses can you from the Xenomorph.  The Experiments on LV-223 is a suitable way to EXPAND on Eggs.

If it was revealed to be some Native Organism to some World, that act like some kind of Insect Hive, then i think your Limited... you need to Elevate it Beyond just a Bug, and Expand the Xenomorph to be more than we have currently seen.

But its how do you do that with what appears to be the Origins of a Created/Engineered Product, it would appear the Origin of the Black Goo or what had the Sacrificial Goo been used on to Create those Experiments on LV-223 is the ONLY real way to Expand a Background to the Xenomorph... The Xenomorph Sadly just seems to be a Consequence from Messing about with something that the Engineers/David should have LEFT alone.

Regarding making a Single Movie... my point was that the Way that Alien Covenant is Set-Up which is that at some point 18-28 Years before ALIEN we have David begin to Create the Xenomorph that eventually gets on a Engineer Ship that then Lands on LV-426 at some point over the NEXT 8-17 Years after the END of Alien Covenant.

But YES i would say you can make a SINGLE movie that Connects to ALIEN but if this Movie is a Continuation of Alien Covenant then in order to Confine it to a single Movie you would have to BY-PASS quite a LOT.

Alien Covenant did this with Prometheus, it had By-Passed the events from the End of Prometheus to the point that the Covenant Ship arrived via detecting the Signal from Planet 4.  So we had the AFTERMATH of the 10 Years that passed between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, with only the Flash Back Scene and the Destruction left behind for us to see what had Happened.

If a Alien Covenant Sequel was to do the same and IN EFFECT to go and By-Pass the Events that are likely Planned Next then YES you could get a Movie that Connects to ALIEN in 2 Hours.

We basically have AC then Skip past AC2 and arrive at AC3

UNLESS you are to attempt a Prequel that will give Answers to LV-426 that DONT Connect to Alien Covenant and basically go to show that the Eggs/Derelict have either been on LV-426 before the Prometheus Mission or they occur After but are NOT connected to anything that Happened in Alien Covenant.

"So COULD or DOES the Xenomorph or prior Experiments have some other Purpose, or some Agenda to attempt to GAIN something more than a Face Hugging, Chest Bursting Killing Machine?"

Used correctly the pathogen creates beauty...contaminated pathogen is another story.

We've only seen the pathogen used improperly(David). 

If Engineers created or stole the xeno/ovomorph idea, i'd think the xeno would be much larger than it is, right now it's human size, the xenos are small enough to fit aboard our starships, crawl around in our cooling/heating ducts. It really seems like they were created with humans in mind,.........also the facehuggers are just the right size to 'hug' a human face, the eggs are the right height to capture human children and adults.

 I always thought the Space Jockey from Alien was huge and whatever had burst from it would produce something larger(egg wise).   I can imagine facehuggers as large as cars(you'd need a ladder to look inside the eggs)!

Shaw's baby(trilobite) from Prometheus is what I consider alien, a large creature that a engineer could barely handle.

Later, I found out that there have been cats in space. The first one was Félicette. :)

BigDave: First cat in space - instead of a dog (Laika). :)

"you will NOT get from Alien Covenant to ALIEN in a single Movie.."

The problem with that kind of thinking is why the franchise (and the prequels) got into limbo. This desire to stretch and milk endlessly. Like: "We can make a great standalone film. But no - we will tear it into pieces and feed the public a little". You really don’t see that this is just an attempt to put the viewer on a hook? This is similar to some modern games: you can get a whole great game, but no: you will buy a part + 100 DLC for it.

"you will NOT get from Alien Covenant to ALIEN in a single Movie.."

Yes, you will! Even 2 hours runtime is enough to tell a good prequel. Just throw away the whole philosophy of fingering and give people information - technology, culture, society of Engineers. Show not what David creates, but how he does it. And most importantly, stop trying to milk your viewer. Does Ridley think the audience is stupid? He thinks they don’t recognize the attempt to hook them? He is very mistaken!

Predators had green blood, mistery

BigDave

When you talk about the origin and purpose of the Alien, you forget one small but important detail.

RIDLEY DID NOT CREATE THE ALIEN.This is not his idea or his universe. In fact, he has no more rights to this universe than Cameron, Fincher, or Jean Pierre Jeunet.

Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett create Alien.

I am not talking about this for empty debate. There is two origins of Alien:

Ridley thinks the Alien is a biological weapon.

Cameron thinks the Alien is a natural, wild form of life.

But there is a third way. From the real creators of the monster.

Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett thought the Alien is a civilized being. Which has its own culture and traditions. I think this is the best way.

Maybe Xeno met the Engineers as is or caught primitive people and evolve them into Engineers. Xeno may have died out and donated their life-giving blood to humans/Engineers. Perhaps the Engineers tried to create people or even resurrect Xeno, but they only got bloodthirsty monsters.

The stone head of the Engineer in the pyramid may indicate the pride and achievements of the civilization of Engineers. But behind this head there is a fresco with a crucified xeno, which indicates that all the achievements of the Engineers are possible only thanks to the sacrifice of Xeno.

There are more opportunities, more soil and more interest than with the banal: wild animals, biological weapons, creation against the creators.

Interestingly, Resurrection was doing that but many fans hated it.

Not without reason! I said it before, I will say it again, I will always repeat it - YOU CANNOT CREATE SOMETHING UGLY and then say: "Hey! This is evolution! This is something new! Let's love it without questions. These are not facehuggers or chestbursters. This is a really new way. Don't think - praise! Yay! Yay! Yay!"

I find it quite ironic that smart people are always talking about something new, but absolutely forget about the centuries-old wisdom - "don’t fix what is not broken". If Ridley says that "the beast is cooked" (he, btw, admitted that he was wrong) or you need to explore new ways - it's just the opinion of one person. A man whose last films, let’s say so, have performed rather sluggishly. A man who doesn't respect one of the most iconic monster in world culture.

We need to Evolve the Beast beyond a Egg Laying Space Bug!

Interestingly, Resurrection was doing that but many fans hated it.

Pretty sure one of the cut scenes in Covenant was the conversation between Orem and David where he confesses to find an egg, ad his experiments are for replicating that feral instinctive creature he found, that would explain in a "into the movies verse" the look of many of the main Xenos among all movies, since the whole "Alien/Predator/Prometheus/AVP Verse" was some how connected by so many Easter eggs, sadly from not so well received movies and video games, but also from many good comic books and novels since 1987 to this day, the eggs may represent what makes the creature it self most terrifying, the unknown genesis and the mystery behind the creatures, for example, the royal jelly of the queen has been addressed till the 2000's but Kenner made a toy about a queen dripping ooze in the 90's, and how that jelly/ooze has mutagenic attributes, so instead on the engineers making the xenos from the black goo,  it was backwards, they discovered this species and the advantages it would bring, the black goo could be a derivative pathogen from the royal jelly

Actually, I am fine with the Quadrilogy being self contained and separate from the prequels. That way, the prequels could be explored and fans might see the prequels as just more movies in the over all Alienverse? 

"I would not be Surprised if the Space Jockey would be Revealed to be one of Davids Creations.."

That would be something! Need a short story about this!

 "I do know that I don't want to see sprawling movies that never link up. "

Even if they don't make another movie, I REALLY want to know what RS has in mind....I hope Luke Scott speaks with him daily!

@DK

We have to remember that RS said the Engineers come and go to Planet 4 at certain Intervals and so those who come and go could take Hundreds of Years between Visits.

So those who Return to  Planet 4 could go off after David and Ultimately end up DEAD... there could be other Engineers and Creations in FAR FAR reaches of the Galaxy that would NEVER appear in our Part of the Galaxy... or maybe abandon our Section of Space and Leave us to ROT!

I think if we got a Climax to the Prequels then Yeah we cant have any Engineers left within the Section of the Galaxy that Mankind has Explored in the Franchise... i also think LV-223 would have to be DESTROYED too.

That's a lot to unpack but it brings back the basics of the pathogen discussed if memory serves. It seems it had a dual purpose: creating life as seen in the intro in Prometheus, and destroying life as seen in the Quadrilogy. For the quadrilogy, it points to pure destruction until humans and Ash start tinkering with face huggers and Walmart funds all out cloning. 

@MonsterZero

You make a Good Point...

Indeed we could see David go and Evolve the Human Embryos to create a more Perfect Humanoid than Humans and Engineers.   Then to see his Disappointment when his Creations become more like Himself!

They CANT Procreate!

He would then need to GET more Humans to gain Embryo's to Re-Create more of his New Species... what happens when they Discover him using some Captured and Hidden Humans.... and his Creations Discover that THIS is where they came from and HAD it been that David had left their Embryo's to Grow Naturally as Humans they would have been able to Create instead of being some Abomination Engineered by David.

This is HOW i see the LV-223 Engineers, they are either a Engineered/Cloned Version of Planet 4 Engineers who are Engineered for a Purpose... and CANT procreate... or they are some Engineers who Self Evolved themselves at the Hubris of losing the Ability to Procreate.

Either way they became Frustrated they cant Create... like David and they like David began to find other ways to Create! (Creating Horrors).

I would not be Surprised if the Space Jockey would be Revealed to be one of Davids Creations..

@DK

Indeed that just shows the Pickle we are in now....

Do we Brush under the Carpet what we saw in Alien Covenant regarding David and the Xenomorph?  I think its tricky... you see if we go to just ignore any more Xenomorphs and Davids Destiny does not lead to LV-426 then people are still going to want to know so HOW/WHEN/WHY did the Eggs get onto LV-426 and then some fans would want to know WHAT the Hell was David doing then and WHY has he not carried on with his WOLF?

So its a Pickle they find themselves in!

The Solution/Solutions i have proposed over time could WORK.. but they would require Patience from Fans.. you will NOT get from Alien Covenant to ALIEN in a single Movie... so the Next One would be a SET-UP but then its a case of Fans maybe not wanting to go through a What Kind of World that David Creates... before we get to things going to POT and then another Movie that would then STRING everything together where his Experiments are Evolved and End up on the Derelict.

So you could likely keep such a Set-Up but do a Aftermath Movie which Alien Covenant was basically the Aftermath to Prometheus 1.5 aka The Crossing...  so we have a By-Pass and now go to a "what kind of World do incoming Humans discover that has gone to POT after Davids Paradise becomes a Hell"

I think even if they had David admit he just found a Egg and it was Aggressive and yet he found the Neomorphs to be more Controllable and so he Began to try and make a Amalgamation of them and the Xenomorph to create his Masterpiece we saw in Alien Covenant.

I think for a lot of Fans they would still want a Movie that is a LOT less about David, and they would want to see Vanilla Xenomorphs Return in Engineer Ships!

in Hindsight this is the PICKLE we are in because FOX Caved in to thinking the Fans wanted Xenomorphs and a Direct Prequel Answers... and then the Mistake to decide that its GREAT to show David as the Creator.

David should have Created something more Different, a Ultramorph and have him show how he got to it and this allows us to then assume the Engineers did similar Thousands of Years ago to get the Xenomorph.

Or they should have made a more Alieny Movie that went to LV-223 to investigate Dr Shaws SOS and with this introduce something more Similar to the Xenomorph and show us that one Ship of Eggs had escaped this Place and Ended Up on LV-426...

Thus then allowing another Movie to go with David and Shaw to seek out the Engineers...

What we have now is a Story that has Written itself into a Corner.

MonsterZero I am referring to Scott's wanting to explore the SJ and that's where the prequels went. There could be a big battle as the final prequel movie, but imagining that brings up imagery of Star Wars and such. I really can't think of a good way to link up to Alien directly. I do know that I don't want to see sprawling movies that never link up. 

"focus on the Engineers"

Since there's no mention of the Engineers in Alien 1 - 4....I'd think they need to remove them from the franchise with one big battle? (or did David already do that?)

  "Well before Prometheus landed i did Wonder if we would be seeing a Pinocchio situation with David, where he would become a Real Boy.... of Sorts and what a Hubris if then he could be Infected with a Face Hugger."

Start  AC2 with synthetic David creating a human version himself And unlike the Ripley clones in A:R (mutated) Have the David clones 'born' with slight imperfections.

 David noticed a small blemish over the clone's right shoulder and tired of his clones screaming and pleading, He immediately sliced this ones throat....

  He desired perfection and would continue to destroy until his goal was reached.

Synthetic David: "How do you feel my son?"

Human David (#35), glancing at the pile of David corpses,: "Perfectly fine father" 

I think there are too many problems trying to make a movie that leads directly to Alien. The facehugger exiting the SJ and burning a hole in the floor is still a mystery as is the size discrepancy of the ship we see compared to the "egg silo"- and we know why the scenes were cut that way. The film would likely divide fans even further.

I think the best way forward is to focus on the Engineers and essentially end in a way that fans could possibly piece the connection to Alien for themselves.

I agree that the Marketing for Prometheus was better....

For Alien Covenant it was really just about PUSHING those Posters of the Xenomorph and Egg down our THROATS!  They seemed to think that maybe Prometheus got some Negativity because it NEVER had the Xenomorph or its Origins..

So they was like LOOK! XENOMORPHS!

Then we got THIS.... a Massive Piece of Miss-Information.

I think some Fans would have Expected scenes like this in the Movie!

I do think it was Disappointing the Budget we got for Alien Covenant seemed like FOX maybe never had too much Confidence and played it Safe!  With Inflation the Covenant Budget would have been like Prometheus only getting $100M and that is about what Alien Covenant had ($30M Less than Prometheus) when with Inflation a $130M in 2011 would have been at least $150M in 2016

But even if Alien Covenant had a Extra $50M its a Question of looking at the PLOT the Draft and the Running Time, then its a case of WHAT difference that $50M may have made?

Improved CGI, replace with some High Tech Animatronics etc? 

Replace some of the Actors with more Well Known Actors?

Again all of these would still depend on the Plot all a Bigger Budget would have done is add some Gloss here and there, but the Fundamental Failures and Disappointments may have remained.

I think the Problem after Alien Covenant was that FOX was Surprised that Alien Covenant did so Poor at the Box Office...  Then they are Left with the Critics over the Plot and Especially the Curve-ball....

They have kind of Wrote themselves into a Corner now, with a Backbone Plot that not so many Fans wish to go and see.

I think a Number of Fans would be willing to WAIT and then have it revealed that the Prequels, and Especially with Alien Covenant were just a BAD DREAM.....

I personally think you have to PICK UP where you have SET-UP and try and FIX it as best as you can!  I am not a FAN of Pretending something NEVER happened apart from when its a Spin-Off like the AVP movies.

Yeah they could go and do a Blomkamp.... as in lets just remove Alien 3 and Alien R and bring back Ripley and have it that Alien 3 etc never EXIST!   So what if some Fans are like Whah Whah! Boo Hoo they Killed Off our Hicks and Newt and then Real Ripley.... Whats done is Done!

You just have to Work Around them...

The same applies with a Continuation to Alien Covenant, but i PITY the Guys who have to come up with a PLOT to go and get us to ALIEN and try and Please the Fans..

I think that Crowd Funding could work as far as to get us some Answers and Closure in a Certain way as far as a Novel or Comic...  But for a Movie then Budget really does have a Massive Impact on what you can show... especially with Space Scenes/Ships and Monsters..

Personally i think maybe we should get a Movie that is set 10 years after Alien Covenant and will BY-PASS most of what David does next....

After Prometheus we had a 10 Year Gap where we would Discover what Happens with David and Dr Shaw, until her Death, and what remained on Planet 4 after the Bombardment and his Experiments in more Detail.  It was like there was a STORY there... one that was BY-PASSED.

I think we could maybe do the Same with the Sequel to Alien Covenant and so we SKIP the Sequel.... and arrive at the Next One which would be the After-Math of what Happens when Davids kind of World goes Tits-Up! (goes to POT)

I then think it would be NICE to then get TWO Novels... ONE which would give account to some of the Time between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, and another to cover say some of the 10 Years after Alien Covenant.

I think the Problem stems down from WHAT do you do for a Prequel?

If you go for a Chronological Direct Prequel where in Real Time you would show HOW the Eggs got on the Derelict, then Assuming that the EGGS were NOT placed on the Ship say AFTER it had Landed on LV-426 then what you are left with is a Movie that would have to be either SET in the Distant Past (how do Humans play a Role) or its SET not FAR behind the Time-Line of ALIEN (which means the Space Jockey Remains are not so Ancient).

Once you also have SHOWN the HOW the Eggs get on the Ship in ADDITION to HOW/WHEN/WHERE they was Discovered/Created by the Space Jockey.

Then there really is NOT so much more you can keep doing with the Xenomorph once you have those Answers...

so then it turns to WHO are the Space Jockey Race and WHY would they have such Cargo, if the Eggs are a Engineered Bio-Weapon then its a case of Answering as to WHY would they Create such a thing.... against WHO!

^^^^^ THIS.. is the other Plot/Revelation that they Felt was more Important and would OPEN up a whole New Franchise to Explore....

At this Time however it was NOT going to be a Revelation of the Xenomorph being a Creation by a Human Created Robot, in Hindsight they felt they should KEEP the Origin a Mystery but give us enough to Figure out its Origins are Connected to the Engineers, the LV-223 Facilities are Horrors they was Experimenting with....

In Hindsight it was a mistake to make the Clues too Vague, and NOT really have any Connecting Monster on-screen apart from the Trilobite/Deacon which was sadly NOT a Good Enough Substitute because all we in effect got would be as if ALIEN had Ended at the Kane Chest Busting Shot in Alien.

In Hindsight.... after Prometheus they should have made a Sequel that would have SENT in a recovery Mission to LV-223 where it would be a more Alieny kind of Movie with some Monsters more like the Xenomorph and more Clues to HOW/WHEN they was Created.

Then they could have CLOSED the Door to ALIEN and Fans could have got more Understanding of the Types of Horrors the Engineers were creating and then maybe be saying "WOW they was Cool i would love to see more of the Horrors the Engineers had Created"

Then another Sequel that would FOLLOW where David and Dr Shaw were going and Uncover more about the Engineers and other Mystery of Prometheus, and then indeed they could have the David Arc as he Creates his OWN version of the Monsters.

This route would have KEPT the Xenomorph Ancient and would NOT have had to give us Vanilla Xenomorphs to Answer the Questions.  It would then also had allowed RS to explore the Engineers, and Themes of Prometheus of which DAVID was always going to be a BIG part.

But ALAS we got Alien Covenant and NOW we have to go to Damage Control.... its going to be Hard to Continue with David and it be about him a lot, and to then Give Xenomorphs and Answers as far as LV-426 which some Fans want and are Hopeful they would be revealed as NOT having anything to do with David.

So you have to incorporate David's Role... but then try and have his role as far as the Final Product reduced.. as i mentioned in previous Posts... he becomes the MIDDLE MAN.

But thats not going to please some Fans... but then if we have it were Humans turn up to Origae-6 and Discover that David is Dead the Colonist turned into KNOCK OFF versions of the Xenomorph... and as the Humans come to Terms with this.. the Engineers Rock Up and Unleash the Original Xenomorphs.

For some Fans this would be GREAT... for those who liked what Prometheus was doing it would just be another lets Cook the Beast again Movie.

Did they test it on a Real Jonesy first ;)

Well I don't agree in the slightest. Prometheus and Covenant are excellent movies. I wouldn't mind ten more movies just like this.

The fact that RS got 2 movies out and people are still feeling meh about these films says it all.

I remember walking out of the theater after ALien3..Thinking: What the hell was that!? ...then Walking out of Alien:Resurrection..Also thinking: What the hell was that!? Pretty much everone was in agreement: Both films sucked and the next Alien movie would too.

I don't think there's any magical director or super plot that's going to satisfy the new or old fan base.

Outstanding!!! very fine work indeed! Please more!

 I just feel without trying we will never know how large of a dedicated paying fan base is out there to crowd fund new Alien shows and movies....I know that crowd funding works. I also know there are more than few million people that enjoy all these movies! I have loved them for 40 years and still enjoy watching them several times a year...just watched Alien on 4k two weeks ago and the detail is amazing! You have not seen Alien until you have watched it in 4k.

I would also like to share this bit of interesting trivia...we watched one of the most successful advertising campaigns put onto the internet over several months to get Prometheus to gross over a half billion dollars...BigDave will attest to the fact that Ridley's budget was cut and we got the move we got; however, I digress. The point is our strategy moving forward with any project is to raise capital. This was Ridley's strategy too and it paid off big time the way they did all the internet promotional crowd participation activities....you all remember the Weyland video? I do !!!! of we all do and the corporate website for Weyland-Yutani....these were all part of Ridley's strategy to garner interest in the movie before it was released.

We need a similar strategy but not based on vignettes or anything Disney would come after us for because they own the copy wright to this franchise.....I say no we are their boss we are the fans and right now I believe there are a few million fans that want this content....we just have to show Disney we mean business! Disney operates and understands money. 

So NO we are not giving up on this yet!!! NO WE ARE NOT!

I have another mechanism already in place! A top secret one. So down the rabbit hole we all go right now! Huddle round my friends....you are about to see history in the making.

We do the internet thing and raise awareness....I have a server and bandwidth for what we need....this is the funnel! Once inside the server each visitor will pledge a digital amount of cash....that cash is not even real money....it will be in small denominations 10, 25, 50 dollars. Some people have more some people have less....we need the price of at least the admission of one movie ticket....now get this they do not put any real cash in the "Till" only pledge a virtual ammount they will pay contingent Disney gets started and goes into production....we want Disney's respect we don't care what they want to produce or not....the only way to get them to do what we want is to show enough support....that is where 25 million people world wide will pledge digital support....they pay nothing until Disney goes into production....Disney cannot back out either because once they say yes those emails and IM's go out and they click on those phones all that cash....Disney gets nothing until we see commitment....look ladies and gentlemen we are getting nothing from Disney any way for years.....they see this kind of money they cannot say no to it!!!! They will do ask we say....essentially we make ourselves the treasury indirectly....we can raise as much fake cash up front as we want.....but when the time comes and Disney is ready to go into production we better make sure our fans are ready with price of least one ticket....ten dollars each! 

The show must go on and it will! We are not giving up anything we hold are the keys to kingdom! We are Disney's boss they just dont know it yet....we are gonna tell them in the right way though! 

hox

Thanks for the Ripley-related facts.

It looks really good! It would look even better if it looke a little wet or saw some slime drippimg off of it.

OK, the next movie is 10 years on after a rescue mission finds David dissected on Origae-6.  Done with the AI theme.  Investigate the Engineers and the background of the Xenomorphs.  Go for the big theme and explain the LV-426 ship and eggs.  Also, explain the intention of the Engineers.  When I hear RS talk he's already changing his focus and its back to the Xenomorphs now.  I give up.  Give this thing to Dennis V and let him run w/ it.  I believe the Mouse Kingdom wants to go forward but if they know what they are doing give it to someone else.  The Prometheus and AC went off the rails.  Have RS be director of photography and give the big seat to Dennis and wrap this up now.  I do not want to see another robot movie or about characters no one cares about.  I'm sorry but my patience is finite.  The fact that RS got 2 movies out and people are still feeling meh about these films says it all.