New Replies (Page 162)
It doesn't get better. This is just nostalgia.
Some characters is solid, but plot is crap. This film has an interesting dialogue (thx to Dillon), but the environment is wretched. Xenomorph is crippled by the amateurish and cheap production of ADI - they thought the flesh was scary and terrible, and biomechanical is unnatural and not scary. But the Alien (shape) was never about terrible and disgusting - it is primarily the erotomechanic of Giger and an incredible elegant style. Fortunately, Giger’s style is not so easy to ruin.
This is a controversial film. This film deserves to be watched and rewatched many times. But it does not deserve to be part of continuity, part of canon. I easily agree to any retcon.
5/10
Alien 3 is like a dead poop that your beloved dog is lays aside and that you keep as a sentimental memory.
Alien 3 is also about redemption if you take in the Assembly cut. They are society's outcast (and perhaps for good reason), but they create their own society and try to be orderly. There are levels to the movie to ponder. For instance, I learned the ox in the Assembly cut was a reference to the importance of owning an ox back in biblical times.
Alien 3 is a movie that I hated in the 90s but it is a movie I really appreciate and it improves with age.
You might not have any sympathy for a bunch of murderers, rapists and thieves - which is fair
But everyone can understand and appreciate the feeling of being included. We are a herd species. The sense of belonging is ingrained in us.
So its an interesting and deep topic to explore. Deeper than most people give Alien3 credit for, and a credit to Vincent Ward's script parts that made it into the film
Thoughts_Dreams What do you do when you know that you have done terrible things and that you would be disliked to many on earth? Staying there and try to become a better person is not such a bad thing compared to what the alternative could be I guess. I understand your point of view but I just think that it is interesting.
I whole-heartedly agree! There are a few scenes in the assembly cut where they try to explore this and the Brotherhood the inmates have created for themselves. Dillon going out of his way to ensure the group is inclusive of Golic for example.
To be an outcast even amongst the outcast would be a truly lonely and sad fate. So they make a point 'to tolerate even the intolerable' so that every inmate knows they are not truly monstrous and irredeemable.
MonsterZero Which version- theatrical or Assembly?
I actually like Alien3 more than Aliens now! Creepier and dark. If Aliens had the level of acting exhibited in Alien3, it would rival A L I E N imho.
Wasn't the queen with them at the ship when they left the exploding planet in Aliens? So the queen must have gotten on the ship put the eggs in there in some place and there it is. I agree that this is not given a good explanation in the movies but I do not have a huge problem with it.
MonsterZero:
They could probably have had it at another planet but I did not have any problem with it. About the prisoners I think that was an interesting thing. What do you do when you know that you have done terrible things and that you would be disliked to many on earth? Staying there and try to become a better person is not such a bad thing compared to what the alternative could be I guess. I understand your point of view but I just think that it is interesting. By the way, what did you think about Ripley and Clemens in that movie? Clemens was far from a murdering psycho, he was there because he killed people because of a wrong dosage of painkillers which to me was an accident it seems but not because he was an angry maniac or psychopath.
Most of the alien work (monster work) was not CGI, this is something that you can see in the making of Alien 3. I think that it is alright even though it could probably have been better.
When it comes to Alien Resurrection I agree. They only one that I probably gave a shit about was maybe Call but yeah it was bad writing so how they decided to go ahead with that is something that I don't understand. Maybe they thought that they needed money and that the Alien movies usually make a profit so they released it because of that and with no artistic thought in mind.
You mention Aliens, to me it feels too much like a Rambo shoot em up kind of movie. It has some sort of 80's vibe to it so to me it is the one that has not aged well, to me at least. Of course I watch it a bit now and then but it is probably the one that I watch the least among the original three which is interesting since it was my favorite for a long time.
@PhantomBlackberry: Yep, you’ll note I stated the exact same thing above in my response to IsraelSchmidt on April 14 @ 1:47 AM
Yeah If I were to (re)make Alien 3, I would have gone the ALIENS: Outbreak/Earth Hive route
Liked it!
Only problem a VERY minor one: was where the word 'android' was used.....pulled me out of the story( 'synthetic' or 'synth' preferred)...specially the marine using the word 'droid'...Immediately pictured C3PO or R2D2. (I too much of a nerd! lol!)
Needs a sequel.
Why a prison(/ore) planet? So you can kill a bunch of murdering psychos? I'm rooting for the Xeno!
Alien :R suffered the same problem...I didn't care about anyone. Weren't any characters I cared for...
'Because with those if the Queen Could Lay Small Eggs and Stick them to the Drop Ship that maybe could have explained it..'
I like that!
The Queen seemed intelligent and she would use all of her tricks to get revenge. She must have realized her chances of surviving(in the landing gear of a spaceship)were slim...(what if the ship was headed to Earth without a stop? She got lucky....it was a short trip(Engineer ships stayed in orbit for decades...or at least the ones her brood had infested) Her children would finish the job.
"So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script"
Firstly as FAR as Effects then yes a bit more Time and Money would have been Nice... but the same could be said about some shots from Alien Covenant.
Regarding Changing Alien 3.... i think most of the Script works..... i wish they had a more Plausible Explanation/Way to Show HOW the Eggs got on the Sulaco than the Plot Hole we got.
Would have changed some Dialog for the Bishop Scene where he would admire the Xenomorph more, suggesting it is a Evolutionary Perfection or something... and have him mention how Humanity has Limitations and then how the Bishop Model Androids where Flawed.... all of this would make it hard for us to Speculate if Micheal Bishop was Human or some other kind of A.I
On the Deaths!
Newt had to be done... as Carrie Henn would have been 15 at the Time of Shooting etc...
Ripley i felt it gave her a Good Ending, via Sacrifice.. and not forgetting Miss Weaver wanted out.
Hicks i would have KEPT ALIVE... have him in a Coma well Incapacitated until latter on, when he awakes and sees Ripley with NO Hair... then he is informed he is on a Prison Planet.... he may be Concerned/Confused but also Thankful... UNTIL he gets the Bombshells...
1st that Newt has Died.... and then that Ripley is infected with a Queen and that a ALIEN is on the Loose... By the END of the Movie after Ripley has died, we could have Hicks as our Proxy to how he feels... the Heart Break at the loss of Newt and Ripley...
You bet he would be DETERMINED to NEVER allow anyone to try and obtain a Xenomorph again... not if he dont have anything to do with it... as so we could have had a 4th Movie that would continue with Hicks.
Certainly Leto ;)
I had mentioned the same years ago regarding if the Queen could Lay Eggs without the Egg Sack, which i was in doubt because INDEED we do see some Eggs in the Sack that only look like Yolks.
At this time (prior to AC) i found it would NOT make sense in how a Queen could Lay a Egg as it was in Alien 3 and Stick it to the underside of the Drop Ship simply because then we would have to ask WHY the Egg Sack?
so its nice you Mentioned that again ;) it kind of escaped my mind a little when i looked at the Alien Covenant Small Eggs...
Because with those if the Queen Could Lay Small Eggs and Stick them to the Drop Ship that maybe could have explained it..
However.... indeed it seems if this was the Case then the Queen would NOT need or USE the Egg Sack. But also the Egg from Alien 3 does-not look like its stuck to the Drop Ship and there was NO TIME for the Queen to place any Eggs anywhere else.
so its simply comes down to those working on ALIEN 3 to simply come up with a Egg on the Ship so we get another ALIEN Movie.. so it was a Plot Device... but ONE with no Explanation that could NOT contradict what we saw in ALIENS and so yeah! a Lazy Plot Hole ;)
After watching it again...really bad matte ..off putting.
The soundtrack is the only reason i watch the film these days.
Of course..I don't know how you could top or even match Alien or Aliens....but this really fell short IMHO. I pretty much agree with all critiques.
I think what people think is CGI were composites done photo chemically (whatever that process is) with CGI shadows added in according to people on the effects team. It wasn't bad but the creature looked "dry".
It's explained here at the 20:20 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79cHyA836Bw&t=1245s
I think the newborn gets a lot of hate because it was ugly and not attractive as the xenomorph
Everyone: Alien 3 has bad CGI.
Plot twist: The only CGI part in the whole film was the alien's dome cracking before exploding. All those other scenes of the alien running around were just a puppet in front of a blue screen.
Puppet:
Dome cracking CGI:
Dun dun duuuunn
So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged?
The best option - to release a version of Gibson.
So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged?
MonsterZero Honestly,I would fix up the dodgy xenomorph CGI, make the Assembly cut the Theatrical cut, clear up the egg continuity issue....and thats about it.
Maybe glue a toupee and a mustache on a few of the inmates to differentiate them abit
Like Andrews here XD
Smashing.
For A3, I would only have it tinkered with to make some dialogue more audible in places and that's it.
AC is a whole other issue. I would have liked to see some high level Engineers come around after the pathogen bombardment to let David know he was dealing with a force far superior to himself. Even it was some tech in the house of heads that he unwittingly activated.
So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged? I can think of nothing (maybe Ripley's death?) I would keep the same.
AC? ummm.... i'd dump David as the creator...keep Shaw...Have her plead with the colonist to take her away..get her off this hell hole and away from David...keep the ending. .....I'd keep the basic premise and find a way to make it work.
Alien3? No dump it all.
I'm really sorry to say but the article did not provide nothing of interest for me. The main idea that AC is better than A cubed because of nostalgia coming from a someone in there early 20s does make me worried for that we will never have something a tad bit new.
Sure cubed wanted to return to type of movie of the original, and the absence of both Newt and Hicks could have been explained in other ways, but at least it was not full of references from what was before, making it indistinguishable from a self-parody.
Despite all its flaws and very poorly aged CGI Alien3 has, and always probably will be my personal favourite of all the films.
It has more characters than most of the films bar Aliens and maybe AR, but the feeling of loneliness, isolation and hopelessness is so strong in the film.
More so than even Alien.
Perhaps because the Nostromo crew were a team/unit fighting for their survival, whereas Ripley and co. on Furina were a ragtag group defying their inevitable death?
In any case, Alien3 feels the most 'Alien' of all the films and captures and pulls on all the right emotions that should be in such a film.
AC had its moments, but as far as a prequel/sequel I think it pales in comparison to A3. Watching the movies in sequence from Prometheus to Resurrection, Covenant actually sticks out as a movie that does nothing to tie in the franchise as a whole. At least with Prometheus, there was enough for us to tie in Alien.
The New Born gets a lot of hate, but it was pretty cool imo in hindsight. Its appearance was unlike anything we saw or expected at the time, but it was a horrific product of humans' tinkering with genetics to find something perfect. I can appreciate its strange appearance of a creature with a somewhat sad yet ferocious look on its face while sporting a rather glaring and swollen in your face "naughty bits". As it got sucked into space, it seemed to scream "Ripley!" which was chilling.
Having different opinions is fine, the biggest difference is that Alien 3 had well created characters or at least enough of them to be interesting, Covenant has not got many. Alien Covenant is about a mad robot, Alien 3 is not.
Alien 3 was criticized when it was released but I think that it has gotten a better reputation as time has passed and we have gotten more or less mediocre movies after that. I would say that the downfall started with Alien Resurrection. Yes A3 ignored some parts of Aliens but I do not think that it is a bad thing. To me I find a continuity of the family-motif in Aliens to be boring but it worked in Aliens to make it a bit different compared to the first one. Alien has never been about family, happiness, rainbows and having fun. Bad things happen and people die, with the exception of Aliens and AR, in tone I mean.
"… Alien: Covenant, is a spiritual successor to Aliens and reinvents certain story threads in a respectful and clever way."
Alien Covenant is not even close to Aliens, that is like comparing a rusty and old bicycle to a shiny new motorbike. Daniels and Tennessee are like Ripley and Hicks? Nope, R and H had personality, D and T have none that I can think of at least. What are their personality traits? I can not see any while as in R and H I can see plenty. Killing off Newt and Hicks was alright because it was never about them anyways and it was a good way to start something new.
About David and Bishop, David is an asshole and Bishop tried to help. I can see that Walter is closer to Bishop and Walter was alright.
Both movies touched upon the story of the monster. I am not too impressed with the queen (I prefer egg-morphing) but at least Aliens did not do a disservice to the franchise like Alien Covenant did by connecting it with an android something that I really think is... crappy (I could use harsher words for it but I want this post to be civil in tone).
I agree with DK that they should have had more about the Engineers in Alien Covenant. They should never have made AC if you ask me because it is to a big part a failure. Having said this it has some things that I enjoy.
A couple years ago we did the corn bread thing to acknowledge Aliens.
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The humanoids we see on Planet 4 look vastly different (height, skin color, facial features, eyes) from the Engineers in Prometheus, who in turn look about half the size of the Space Jockey. Also, aside from the docking station, their technology seems bronze-age at best. Maybe we're only seeing one city on a huge planet, a holy place where people live a monastic life with rags and few possessions. Maybe David chose to attack this relatively undefended city first, rather than deploying it in a larger city where the people could defend themselves; better to let the infestation grow and become stronger before facing off with guns and technology. But maybe...
'complicated timeline.'
This for sure.
Alien universe is open to cloning, immortal synthetics and hyper sleep.
There really isn't a good reason why Peter Weyland let himself age. He could have cloned/uploaded/ or just frozen/hyperslept himself....waking every 50 years to check on events...cure for aging yet?...no?...see you in 50.
The franchise is already in a strange place, with the latest films sitting somewhere between prequels and sequels. And as with any long-running franchise, numerous entries can led to a complicated timeline
Xenotaris Sandovers looks like a spammer. Reported.
The New Born was very creepy and the stuff of nightmares but I think the Neomorphs were a nice addition to the xenomorph's evolution
assholes? I've been here since 2012
Definitely not! Ovomorphs form in the egg sack. This shows that the Queen herself (as is) cannot produce eggs. When Ripley destroyed an egg sack, unformed "yolks" fell out.
We also forget that the Queen simply did not have time for this. She either fought with Ripley, or hunted for Newt.
The mystery isn't only an egg was on the ship, but an egg that had a royal face hugger. I wonder if the queen, being abruptly separated from her nest, may have had some sort of physical survival response that enabled her to lay a couple emergency eggs- kind of a last ditch do or die effort to propagate the species?
Interesting you assholes joined up only a couple days ago asking about finding out what movies are. This should be reported to Mods or Admin.
The New Born gets a lot of hate, but it was pretty cool imo in hindsight. Its appearance was unlike anything we saw or expected at the time, but it was a horrific product of humans' tinkering with genetics to find something perfect. I can appreciate its strange appearance of a creature with a somewhat sad yet ferocious look on its face while sporting a rather glaring and swollen in your face "naughty bits". As it got sucked into space, it seemed to scream "Ripley!" which was chilling.
I think we should appreciate the creatures for what they are, and I have to remind myself to appreciate the prequel creatures since I hate on the Neomorph. Gotta be fair.
