Comments (Page 161)
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I'll still take Alien:Covenant over Alien3:
AC:
More monsters.
Cool spaceships.
See the Juggernaut drop cargo.
Gun play.
Alien city.
Backburst...really like the spore idea.
Alien3:
Soundtrack is great.
Dark.
In other words: More cools stuff in AC.
Yeah language/dialog is painfully 1980's based. they're not going to speak this way in a 100 years...hopefully.
Look at difference between Jules Verne/H.G. Wells prose and 100 years later Ian Banks/Peter f. Hamilton.
ACM has been struck out. Even before Isolation.
My biggest critique of Ripley's dialogue was when she said the company thought of everyone as "crud". I think it would have made more impact to use even saltier language. Bit I guess it was the 90s.
Not knowing the timeline really hurts any explanation.
Did the Sulaco head for Earth immediately? Or hang around LV-426(Still plenty of eggs aboard the derelict)...maybe it stopped at LV-223 and picked someone/thing up.
Aliens: Colonial Marines The game's plot has been stated as canon by 20th Century Fox anyway?
This is just nostalgia.
Not sure what that means as I watched it two nights ago and like it even better than when I watched it two years ago. The environment is wretched- it is supposed to be. Regarding whether it deserves to be in the continuity is subjective, but the fact is that it is canon warts and all as is Resurrection.
It is and probably always will be controversial as this thread shows (we aren't even talking Covenant anymore). That's ok. It just goes to show how passionate people still feel about the movie.
Ha ha....
Indeed, but it also has the look of the Inmates from Fiorina "Fury" 161
The Video is interesting as it depicts kind of like a CULT that has been Brainwashed to behave in a Certain Way, in that these Humans are SET/CONFINED to a Certain Way... that the DAWN of the Machintosh will Release them from their Limitations.
Which as a Theme does fit with Prometheus/Engineers.
"If it was a neo/xeno that burst from that Space Jockey's chest"
It seems likely that something Related had Chest Busted from the Space Jockey. The Size of it depends on WHAT kind of Organism had infected the Space Jockey.
If it was a Xenomorph Egg then the Chest Buster would be No More than Double the one from Alien, likewise the Resulting Xenomorph would be No Larger than a Queen.
The same would be if it was a Neomorph like Infection too, these are based on the Space Jockey being between 12-15ft Tall though.
Regarding the Size of the Space Jockey i have done Various Calculations over the Years and to me the Space Jockey is about 13ft Tall.
When the Prequels were being worked on the Engineers were BORN and they was SUPPOSED to be 12-15ft Tall.
During Production they decided they should appear to be a 9-10ft Race instead... but alas the Finished Product was a 7-8ft Race.
This comes down to Ridley Scott not wishing to rely on Special Effects to Portray Larger beings... although the Scale of the Engineers Head would have been to a 9ft Humanoid and the Deleted Sacrificial Bowl on the Altar (replaced with Green Crystal) was at a Scale that would make the Sacrificial Engineer about 10ft Tall.
The Cryo-Pods would only hold a 8ft being, the Space Jockey Suits hanging up are nearly 9ft.
So indeed they DONT add up with the Space Jockey Size... and so where there is a Discrepancy, it means we can Speculate they cant be Engineers, and it means the Space Jockey could be revealed to NOT be a Engineer.
But it seems the Intention was that the Space Jockey is a Engineer.
Watched Aliens and Alien 3 again....
And the Dilemma is WHY would the Queen need to use the Egg Sack to Mature/Grow the Eggs so they are then ready to LAY... if she could LAY Small Eggs that can Grow?
The Egg Sack clearly has Yolks and so the Eggs go through a Process before they are ready to be Laid.....
2nd the Area the Egg we see in Alien 3 is Planted does-not look like Part of the Drop Ship and the Queen had NO-TIME to plant any Eggs elsewhere..
Finally Bishop had NO-TIME to get a Egg/s and Sneak them to the Nostromo and NO-ONE could have got to them after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope (we assume).
That leaves us with TWO possible explanations.
1) The Sulaco had a Hidden Agent (maybe Synthetic) who had taken down a Drop Shop and Recovered some Eggs, while the Marines and Ripley were Stranded on Hadleys Hope.
The Problem with this would be surely the Agent would awaken once the Crew were in Cryo-sleep and then obtain a Host to Infect with a Face Hugger and have some Protocols to Safegaurd the Storage of a Infected Host. Alternatively the Agent would Safeguard the Egg/Face Hugger in a way that the Specimen can be passed onto the Company.
We could have a Accidental Loss of Containment but surely a Inside Agent would INFORM the Company and the USCSS Patna would have picked the SOS up.
2) The USCSS Patna or another Ship had Followed the USCSS Sulaco and they had obtain a Specimen and then Placed it on the Sulaco.
The Problem with this would be surely they (USCSS Patna) would have known about any Failure of Containment leading to the EEV Ejection and you would have to ASK as to WHY not just keep the Specimen they obtained from LV-426 there is NO real need to place it on the Sulaco.
so again we just CANT come up with a Watertight Explanation for the Eggs on the Sulaco.
Aliens like Rambo ;)
I would agree in Part, as far as i also held ALIENS in a Higher Regard and saw Alien Resurrection as a bit of a Abomination when it came out, but as i got Older and Older then Aliens became more of a Starship Troopers kind of Flick... while then i began to look Deeper at other Underlying Themes that Alien Resurrection had such as WHAT would Mankind do when they Successfully obtain a Xenomorph, purely using it to unleash Face Huggers that then Produce Snarling Aggressive Xenomorphs is MAYBE NOT the best way to USE/EXPLOIT the Organism.
I found Ripley 8 interesting as far as the Amalgamation of Human and Xenomorph, i thought the Failed Experiments was interesting from the Standpoint of what if we saw some Successful Hybrids.
Finally i found Call interesting and the whole Autons Subplot as something to Explore. When Prometheus was released if felt it touched on some of the same Concepts/Themes (Exploiting, Experimenting with the Xenomorph DNA) and Subcreation.
dk 'theatrical or Assembly'
I prefer the theatrical ....I like the flow.
Assembled makes me ask questions and i'd rather just turn my brain off.
It doesn't get better. This is just nostalgia.
Some characters is solid, but plot is crap. This film has an interesting dialogue (thx to Dillon), but the environment is wretched. Xenomorph is crippled by the amateurish and cheap production of ADI - they thought the flesh was scary and terrible, and biomechanical is unnatural and not scary. But the Alien (shape) was never about terrible and disgusting - it is primarily the erotomechanic of Giger and an incredible elegant style. Fortunately, Giger’s style is not so easy to ruin.
This is a controversial film. This film deserves to be watched and rewatched many times. But it does not deserve to be part of continuity, part of canon. I easily agree to any retcon.
5/10
Alien 3 is like a dead poop that your beloved dog is lays aside and that you keep as a sentimental memory.
Alien 3 is also about redemption if you take in the Assembly cut. They are society's outcast (and perhaps for good reason), but they create their own society and try to be orderly. There are levels to the movie to ponder. For instance, I learned the ox in the Assembly cut was a reference to the importance of owning an ox back in biblical times.
Alien 3 is a movie that I hated in the 90s but it is a movie I really appreciate and it improves with age.
You might not have any sympathy for a bunch of murderers, rapists and thieves - which is fair
But everyone can understand and appreciate the feeling of being included. We are a herd species. The sense of belonging is ingrained in us.
So its an interesting and deep topic to explore. Deeper than most people give Alien3 credit for, and a credit to Vincent Ward's script parts that made it into the film
Thoughts_Dreams What do you do when you know that you have done terrible things and that you would be disliked to many on earth? Staying there and try to become a better person is not such a bad thing compared to what the alternative could be I guess. I understand your point of view but I just think that it is interesting.
I whole-heartedly agree! There are a few scenes in the assembly cut where they try to explore this and the Brotherhood the inmates have created for themselves. Dillon going out of his way to ensure the group is inclusive of Golic for example.
To be an outcast even amongst the outcast would be a truly lonely and sad fate. So they make a point 'to tolerate even the intolerable' so that every inmate knows they are not truly monstrous and irredeemable.
MonsterZero Which version- theatrical or Assembly?
I actually like Alien3 more than Aliens now! Creepier and dark. If Aliens had the level of acting exhibited in Alien3, it would rival A L I E N imho.
Wasn't the queen with them at the ship when they left the exploding planet in Aliens? So the queen must have gotten on the ship put the eggs in there in some place and there it is. I agree that this is not given a good explanation in the movies but I do not have a huge problem with it.
MonsterZero:
They could probably have had it at another planet but I did not have any problem with it. About the prisoners I think that was an interesting thing. What do you do when you know that you have done terrible things and that you would be disliked to many on earth? Staying there and try to become a better person is not such a bad thing compared to what the alternative could be I guess. I understand your point of view but I just think that it is interesting. By the way, what did you think about Ripley and Clemens in that movie? Clemens was far from a murdering psycho, he was there because he killed people because of a wrong dosage of painkillers which to me was an accident it seems but not because he was an angry maniac or psychopath.
Most of the alien work (monster work) was not CGI, this is something that you can see in the making of Alien 3. I think that it is alright even though it could probably have been better.
When it comes to Alien Resurrection I agree. They only one that I probably gave a shit about was maybe Call but yeah it was bad writing so how they decided to go ahead with that is something that I don't understand. Maybe they thought that they needed money and that the Alien movies usually make a profit so they released it because of that and with no artistic thought in mind.
You mention Aliens, to me it feels too much like a Rambo shoot em up kind of movie. It has some sort of 80's vibe to it so to me it is the one that has not aged well, to me at least. Of course I watch it a bit now and then but it is probably the one that I watch the least among the original three which is interesting since it was my favorite for a long time.
@PhantomBlackberry: Yep, you’ll note I stated the exact same thing above in my response to IsraelSchmidt on April 14 @ 1:47 AM
Yeah If I were to (re)make Alien 3, I would have gone the ALIENS: Outbreak/Earth Hive route
Liked it!
Only problem a VERY minor one: was where the word 'android' was used.....pulled me out of the story( 'synthetic' or 'synth' preferred)...specially the marine using the word 'droid'...Immediately pictured C3PO or R2D2. (I too much of a nerd! lol!)
Needs a sequel.
Why a prison(/ore) planet? So you can kill a bunch of murdering psychos? I'm rooting for the Xeno!
Alien :R suffered the same problem...I didn't care about anyone. Weren't any characters I cared for...
'Because with those if the Queen Could Lay Small Eggs and Stick them to the Drop Ship that maybe could have explained it..'
I like that!
The Queen seemed intelligent and she would use all of her tricks to get revenge. She must have realized her chances of surviving(in the landing gear of a spaceship)were slim...(what if the ship was headed to Earth without a stop? She got lucky....it was a short trip(Engineer ships stayed in orbit for decades...or at least the ones her brood had infested) Her children would finish the job.
"So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script"
Firstly as FAR as Effects then yes a bit more Time and Money would have been Nice... but the same could be said about some shots from Alien Covenant.
Regarding Changing Alien 3.... i think most of the Script works..... i wish they had a more Plausible Explanation/Way to Show HOW the Eggs got on the Sulaco than the Plot Hole we got.
Would have changed some Dialog for the Bishop Scene where he would admire the Xenomorph more, suggesting it is a Evolutionary Perfection or something... and have him mention how Humanity has Limitations and then how the Bishop Model Androids where Flawed.... all of this would make it hard for us to Speculate if Micheal Bishop was Human or some other kind of A.I
On the Deaths!
Newt had to be done... as Carrie Henn would have been 15 at the Time of Shooting etc...
Ripley i felt it gave her a Good Ending, via Sacrifice.. and not forgetting Miss Weaver wanted out.
Hicks i would have KEPT ALIVE... have him in a Coma well Incapacitated until latter on, when he awakes and sees Ripley with NO Hair... then he is informed he is on a Prison Planet.... he may be Concerned/Confused but also Thankful... UNTIL he gets the Bombshells...
1st that Newt has Died.... and then that Ripley is infected with a Queen and that a ALIEN is on the Loose... By the END of the Movie after Ripley has died, we could have Hicks as our Proxy to how he feels... the Heart Break at the loss of Newt and Ripley...
You bet he would be DETERMINED to NEVER allow anyone to try and obtain a Xenomorph again... not if he dont have anything to do with it... as so we could have had a 4th Movie that would continue with Hicks.
Certainly Leto ;)
I had mentioned the same years ago regarding if the Queen could Lay Eggs without the Egg Sack, which i was in doubt because INDEED we do see some Eggs in the Sack that only look like Yolks.
At this time (prior to AC) i found it would NOT make sense in how a Queen could Lay a Egg as it was in Alien 3 and Stick it to the underside of the Drop Ship simply because then we would have to ask WHY the Egg Sack?
so its nice you Mentioned that again ;) it kind of escaped my mind a little when i looked at the Alien Covenant Small Eggs...
Because with those if the Queen Could Lay Small Eggs and Stick them to the Drop Ship that maybe could have explained it..
However.... indeed it seems if this was the Case then the Queen would NOT need or USE the Egg Sack. But also the Egg from Alien 3 does-not look like its stuck to the Drop Ship and there was NO TIME for the Queen to place any Eggs anywhere else.
so its simply comes down to those working on ALIEN 3 to simply come up with a Egg on the Ship so we get another ALIEN Movie.. so it was a Plot Device... but ONE with no Explanation that could NOT contradict what we saw in ALIENS and so yeah! a Lazy Plot Hole ;)
After watching it again...really bad matte ..off putting.
The soundtrack is the only reason i watch the film these days.
Of course..I don't know how you could top or even match Alien or Aliens....but this really fell short IMHO. I pretty much agree with all critiques.
I think what people think is CGI were composites done photo chemically (whatever that process is) with CGI shadows added in according to people on the effects team. It wasn't bad but the creature looked "dry".
It's explained here at the 20:20 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79cHyA836Bw&t=1245s
I think the newborn gets a lot of hate because it was ugly and not attractive as the xenomorph
Everyone: Alien 3 has bad CGI.
Plot twist: The only CGI part in the whole film was the alien's dome cracking before exploding. All those other scenes of the alien running around were just a puppet in front of a blue screen.
Puppet:
Dome cracking CGI:
Dun dun duuuunn
So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged?
The best option - to release a version of Gibson.
So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged?
MonsterZero Honestly,I would fix up the dodgy xenomorph CGI, make the Assembly cut the Theatrical cut, clear up the egg continuity issue....and thats about it.
Maybe glue a toupee and a mustache on a few of the inmates to differentiate them abit
Like Andrews here XD
Smashing.
For A3, I would only have it tinkered with to make some dialogue more audible in places and that's it.
AC is a whole other issue. I would have liked to see some high level Engineers come around after the pathogen bombardment to let David know he was dealing with a force far superior to himself. Even it was some tech in the house of heads that he unwittingly activated.
So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged? I can think of nothing (maybe Ripley's death?) I would keep the same.
AC? ummm.... i'd dump David as the creator...keep Shaw...Have her plead with the colonist to take her away..get her off this hell hole and away from David...keep the ending. .....I'd keep the basic premise and find a way to make it work.
Alien3? No dump it all.
I'm really sorry to say but the article did not provide nothing of interest for me. The main idea that AC is better than A cubed because of nostalgia coming from a someone in there early 20s does make me worried for that we will never have something a tad bit new.
Sure cubed wanted to return to type of movie of the original, and the absence of both Newt and Hicks could have been explained in other ways, but at least it was not full of references from what was before, making it indistinguishable from a self-parody.
Despite all its flaws and very poorly aged CGI Alien3 has, and always probably will be my personal favourite of all the films.
It has more characters than most of the films bar Aliens and maybe AR, but the feeling of loneliness, isolation and hopelessness is so strong in the film.
More so than even Alien.
Perhaps because the Nostromo crew were a team/unit fighting for their survival, whereas Ripley and co. on Furina were a ragtag group defying their inevitable death?
In any case, Alien3 feels the most 'Alien' of all the films and captures and pulls on all the right emotions that should be in such a film.
AC had its moments, but as far as a prequel/sequel I think it pales in comparison to A3. Watching the movies in sequence from Prometheus to Resurrection, Covenant actually sticks out as a movie that does nothing to tie in the franchise as a whole. At least with Prometheus, there was enough for us to tie in Alien.
