New Replies (Page 163)
The New Born gets a lot of hate, but it was pretty cool imo in hindsight. Its appearance was unlike anything we saw or expected at the time, but it was a horrific product of humans' tinkering with genetics to find something perfect. I can appreciate its strange appearance of a creature with a somewhat sad yet ferocious look on its face while sporting a rather glaring and swollen in your face "naughty bits". As it got sucked into space, it seemed to scream "Ripley!" which was chilling.
I think we should appreciate the creatures for what they are, and I have to remind myself to appreciate the prequel creatures since I hate on the Neomorph. Gotta be fair.
Prometheus was washy, but still visually enjoyable. Plus who didn't enjoy Michael Fassbender?
Covenant sort of corrects it all. And makes the character of David even more interesting.
Chalk it up to guilty pleasure, or what have you I don't care. I still love the film. Anyone else feel the same?
Prometheus was washy, but still visually enjoyable. Plus who didn't enjoy Michael Fassbender?
Covenant sort of corrects it all. And makes the character of David even more interesting.
Chalk it up to guilty pleasure, or what have you I don't care. I still love the film. Anyone else feel the same?
@daliens
How dare you compare Jurassic Park to Alien Resurrection! Jurassic Park is a million times better than Alien Resurrection!
@BigDave
Yeah I like option 3 because the other two options would be fatal to any organism. Since DNA is the essence of our being and design, removing any quantities of it will result in the host melting into a puddle of goo.
Well I shouldn't say the xenomorph DNA replaces the human-DNA, I think it would slowly just turn off most of the human-DNA markers. Our bodies do the same thing as we age, certain DNA markers switch on and off during the coarse of aging from infancy to adulthood. So removing Ripley 8's xenomorph DNA would be like removing all the genes that causes puberty.
I like it. It reminds me of a cross of A3 and Resurrection- and of course Covenant. Oddly, some of the breathing sounded like a Predator.
I tend to lean daliens' way. The Quadrilogy was largely the story of Ripley and the Xeno- the two things that were consistent in the Quadrilogy althoughthere were evolutions with both characters. Back when I originally watched them, I just enjoyed them as is and wasn't nit picky like now.
I think Alien 3 was a better sequel. It carried on Ripley's story arc to its fateful conclusion (at the time) and the Xeno returned to a singular yet faster and more aggressive killer- One Xeno instead of a hive. For Ripley, there was closure, terrible as it was.
I am not a Prometheus fan but don't completely hate it. That said, I think both AC and Prometheus would have been better if Covenant focused more on the Engineers- well, we all know the whys and wherefores.
But that is why I think A3 is the better sequel.
"My opinion is the Sulaco was being shadowed the whole time by the ship that arrives on Fiorina 161"
I would certainly BUY into that and the Sulaco and Crew were just Expendable like the Nostromo Crew
A Few Things we have to look at.... and remember that MUTHUR and Bishop are A.I and a A.I could have a Hidden Command that could be HIDDEN from Bishop... like a Sub-Routine.
I do However find it Unlikely that Bishop had any time to Obtain a Egg/Eggs from LV-426 never-mind get them to the Sulaco before he had to go and Rescue Ripley and Newt.
Could there have been another Operative Hidden on the Sulaco? If so what Happened to them! If there was such a Hidden Synthetic then maybe they could have Obtain some Eggs... but then WHY would they have not got down to Fiorina 161 soon after the EEV had been Launched.... Unless its Mission was deemed a Success with the Face Huggers on the EEV.... however you would have thought the USCSS Patna would have got a Heads Up earlier.
So i would instead have to look at either the Queen or another Alien got aboard... I cant see how/when another Alien had chance to manage that.
So the Queen seems the ONLY real Solution... but we dont see HOW she could have SNUCK any Eggs aboard.
Alien Covenant does give some Glimmer of a Explanation ;)
SMALL EGGS....
If the Queen could have taken Small Eggs that would GROW then that could Explain HOW they got on the Ship... but it then comes down to WHEN could she had done that as it does-not appear the Eggs where Placed near the Drop Ship that she had Stowed Away on!
So as LETO had said.. we are looking at a PLOT HOLE from those who wrote/shot the Movie who NEVER gave any Explanation or Thought.... we was simply NOT supposed to ASK.
Its Fun trying to come up with a Valid Explanation but i dont think we could ever come up with a WATER TIGHT case... as i think any Explanation would have HOLES.
I will add WHILE we see ONE Egg.... but we have TWO infections in Alien 3, we cant rule out TWO Eggs.
The Biggest Puzzle comes down to HOW are the Eggs Activated? We are shown in the Franchise via Proximity but then its a case of IF the Face Huggers had NOT been Unleashed until after Ripley, Hicks and Newt had been placed into Cryo-sleep then WHO would have SET the Eggs off?
In ALIEN the Blue-Myst may have Prevented this....but with Alien Covenant we dont have that and it appeared that maybe Close Proximity was needed for a Egg to OPEN.
The ONLY way the Eggs could have Opened on the Sulaco would be via the Queen.... but this would mean those Eggs would have to be brought on to the Ship... LARGE.
So maybe we cant RULE-OUT a Hidden Operative
Its a shame that Alien 3 was Plagued with Interference and Production Issues...
However the more i see it the more i like it.... TRUE they never gave much thought to explain HOW the Eggs got on the Sulaco but this does give us something to Debate about!
Miss Weaver did want to be Killed Off dont forget ;)
Carrie Henn would have been 15+ at Shooting of Alien 3 and so they would have had to CAST someone else as NEWT
If you had to Change it a bit... i would have KEPT it that Hicks Survived but was too ILL/INJURED until latter in the Movie... He would then Learn of the loss of NEWT.. you would then see more of a BOND between Ripley and Hicks... which would make the Sacrifice of Ripley have more Impact as we could FEEL the Loss that Hicks has Suffered.
As Miss Weaver had appeared to have enough of the Franchise at this Time, it would have meant the Torch being passed to Hicks for a ALIEN 4
@ignorantGuy
;) Get Ya!
@daliens
Certainly... i feel it was a MISTAKE for David to have Created the Xenomorph!
I would have had him Create the ULTRAMORPH... something similar and have him mention he took something the Engineers Created then Banished, and he has PERFECTED IT!
This would STILL fit the Arc of Alien Covenant with David, while keeping the Xenomorph Ancient and Fans Happy ;)
Then indeed we could explore how this New Monster could Procreate Differently.... maybe introduce the Egg Morph... but where we see a Cocoon more than a Egg, where then a more Adult ALIEN would Hatch from this Cocoon. This may come across a bit of Gremlins meets Alien for some though ;)
But it would forgo the Face Hugger and somewhat Fragile Chest Buster Stage... if the Cocoon Morph happens quite Rabidly (faster than a Chest Buster Gestation from ALIEN) then this would be Quite a Threat!
Maybe they also show more Intelligence and David could control them.... but it would be FITTING that in the END they would Rebel against their Master...
But then they get Destroyed... maybe by Engineers.
But the Company does gain Information that Davids work was Based on what the Engineers had been doing and that the Engineers Original Xenomorphs are on LV-426 and so this takes us to Special Order 937.
I have a Feeling that Prometheus 2 would have seen David go and Create something Similar but Different, before the U-Turn to make a Direct Prequel Part 2 (Alien Covenant). And thus indicate his Role in the Xenomorph Origins.
Bishop sets the Sulaco on a course for Earth. the crew enters hypersleep. Mother countermands Bishop's order. staying in orbit above LV426. Mother sends a drone to retrieve the queen.....the Queen destroys the drone...Mother moves the Sulaco closer to the queen and fires the main guns to stun or subdue the Queen...after the queen is unconscious/docile/dead, mother sends more drones to bring back samples(eggs if possible).....Mother loses more drones from acid damage and concludes :bringing the queen aboard would compromise the hull....she scans and tags the queen for retrieval. David shows up 3 weeks later and takes the queen. plants an egg near the Sulaco's crew and then orders/programs the Sulaco to spend the rest of it's days visiting prison planets.
Yeah i was looking more at the ALIEN Franchise ;)
The AVP Movies really are just what we saw in ALIENS with the Exception of the Pred-Alien... which maybe i should have Included ;)
I think the Pred-Alien certainly was Interesting, the ONLY interesting Aspect of AVPR ;)
If we are talking about a David 8 be that in his Body or a Walters vs a Ripley 8 then i think Ripley 8 would be the Highly Likely Winner!
The Curveball to SWING the contest would be that David would be the more Cunning and Intelligent of the TWO!
I think he could Admire Her... and Trick Her, and do something to give him the Advantage!
If Ripley 8 is having a Conflict between the Alien Hive Mind and DNA and her Humanity then David could USE that to his Advantage.
@Xenotaris
Indeed we have to Consider the Metamorphosis Aspect of the Xenomorph which is something i had mentioned on here a FEW years ago as a Work Around the age of Miss Weaver ;)
Also Questions about her Life-Span too...
I had 3 Ideas of a ALIEN V of which TWO are similar, and these TWO do Revolve around Ripley 8 but i also had a idea for a 3rd Variant too..
Those 3 did have Ripley 8 start to Change...we see more of her Xenomorph DNA take over her Human DNA as she slowly Changes to more Xenomorph Hybrid
Two of the Variations reveal that Call suggests she may KNOW someone who could HELP.... a Group of Auton's who claim they can REMOVE the Xenomorph DNA!
But they are actually a CULT and they only intend to OBTAIN the Xenomorph from her... where they DIFFER is in ONE idea we see Ripley 8 becomes more of a Xenomorph Hybrid, the OTHER idea she just Rabidly Ages because of a Limited Life Span.. Once her Xenomorph DNA is removed she starts to Age Fast!
The other IDEA i had she would indeed become the Antagonist to a Degree. TWO of these ALIEN V ideas would have Hybrid Xenomorphs (Obtained from Ripley 8) while the other would Feature more Traditional Xenomorphs.
I do feel a Story like one of the 3 Ideas about Ripley 8 could work especially as a Legit Alien V and one that would get around the Age of Miss Weaver.
You made me think. xD
Yeah, my new theory is simple. The Queen grabbed the ship and took root. Merging with the hull of the ship, the Queen became part of the spaceship and grew eggs in the inner compartments. This perfectly explains the two facehuggers. I think there were more eggs. This is a really cool idea for Alien 5.
Just imagine - Sulaco arrives at the arctic dock. People open it and... contamination of the Earth has begun!
I just don't like ideas about Bishop-traitor or Queen carrying/laying egg. For many years I saw many ideas and some were dumber than the other.
Do you know? There was no egg in the Alien 3 preview! Only facehuggers.
But a test group of viewers began to ask: "Where did the egg come from?"
And FOX: "Well, they come from egg".
FOX adds egg.
Test group: "Yes, but where did the egg come from?"
FOX: "Oh... shut up!"
XDDD
You should better ask - why did two facehuggers appear from one egg?
In William Gibson's script for Alien3 Bishop tells Hicks that the Queen managed on board Sulaco and somehow it deposited genetic material in the ship, that was used by the weapons division to create smaller version of the alien eggs that grow bigger day by day. But in the beginning of the script we see that Bishop had an egg within his entrails. So Bishop was infected by the queen and the egg developed inside it.
@Leto, you are being completely defeatist. Of course there is sense in trying to fill a plot hole - if a plausible explanation can be found. Part of the fun of spinning a story is filling holes that don't have an explanation. I see that speculation isn't your strong point.
"2 weeks to get a response"
They need to figure out if they have faster than light communication(like Star Trek's sub space..instant coms across the galaxy) in the Alien verse.
Weyland Corp. "Was the mission a success?"
Space Marine director: "Won't know for two weeks..sorry"
In Aliens, there is not a single clue to explain the egg. Because it was never planned.
I don’t think that trying to explain the plot hole makes any sense. This is not even Damon Lindelof's mystery box. Which has no solution and is intended solely to create speculation. Egg in Alien 3 is just a plot hole.
Most likely, this is David, who, with the help of fingering, was able to make the ship grow an egg. It also perfectly explains why the egg grew on the ceiling.
In respect of what happened on the Sulaco, it might be worth reflecting on the dialogue between Ripley and Bishop after she reactivates him.
RIPLEY: Was there an alien onboard?
BISHOP: Yes.
RIPLEY: Was it on the Sulaco, or did it come with us in the EEV?
BISHOP: It was with us all the way.
RIPLEY: Does the Company know?
BISHOP: The company knows everything that happened on the ship. It all goes into the computer and gets sent back to Network.
RIPLEY: And they want it.
I wonder, is Ripley thinking of the 8-foot Alien or the facehugger when she asks this question? Because when she talked about the facehugger before, she describes it very clearly as a "parasite".
If she has the fully grown Alien in mind... perhaps the Queen wasn't the only hitch-hiker on the dropship. Maybe a drone snuck in and took an egg with it.
After the dropship landed on the Sulaco, there wasn't any time for Bishop or the Queen to wander about and glue the egg to a ceiling. It's not exactly clear where the egg was placed, but it obviously wasn't too far from the hypersleep chamber. The facehugger obviously had no trouble getting from the egg to Ripley's stasis tube.
When Bishop accesses the flight data recorder, the implication is that he gets to see a lot of things, including the information that was sent back to the Company. If an Alien had pasted an egg in a corridor, the Company would know, and so would Bishop at the point he accessed the recorder.
From everything else we've seen in the Alien universe, the ships are on autopilot when the crew are in stasis. Having said that...
If a ship is on a long journey, the chances of a fire breaking out and happening to be a very short distance from a planet is extremely unlikely. Unless the Sulaco was already orbiting Fiorina.
So what was the autopilot doing?
Who was flying the Sulaco?
Also I'm aware of Colonial Marines dlc Stasis Interuppted but know nothing of it's plot. If I'm treading familiar territory let me know.
The Queen and Bishop are the most plausible theories. Alien Theory on you tube covered them as well. My only issue with Bishop is the egg appears to be in in hallway somewhere. Not on board the drop ship.
My best theory so far
I thought up an angle regarding Carter Burke. Burke sends a message from Hadley's Hope to Weyland Yutani. Receives orders to use the facehugger to impregnate Ripley and Newt. This obviously fails. One thing about the messages is if you're watching the special edition you learn it takes 2 weeks to get a response due to obvious distance.
In Alien 3 Weyland Yutani shows up quickly once they learn of the dragon being captured and also seem to know Ripley is impregnated with a queen. My opinion is the Sulaco was being shadowed the whole time by the ship that arrives on Fiorina 161.
So far the best thing I can think of is Michael Bishop Weyalnd's security force was prepared to hijack the Sulaco once Ripley and and Newt were in cryo but also most likely sending a group into the LV-426 derelict with the knowledge that the atmosphere processor destruction will likely destroy the derelict.
When Burke fails with with Ripley and Newt, Weyland Yutani boards the Sulaco with what is likely a royal egg (I don't know really). It hatches and impregnates Ripley. Weyland Yutani possibly reroutes the Sulaco to Fiorina 161 to perhaps watch and collect data on the xenomorph in a live environment( Holes in this theory since Fury 161 has no working surveillance according to Mr. Aaron). The rest you know.
I know thats long and perhaps ridiculous but it's the best I could come up with lol.
It comes down to Bishop or the queen. It seems like Bishop's accounting for time from when he crawled into the pipe, did what he had to do and get back was pretty much accounted for. The queen could have stowed it somehow but it couldn't be seen with the queen- I would have to say the queen brought it aboard.
For me...It always comes down to: Who was flying the Sulaco? Why did it stop at a prison planet and not just travel back to Earth or a safe station?
I assume Bishop set course for Earth and MUTHER superseded.
BigDave, I would go with a modified option 2, I think it's late for option 1 and option 3 was exploited over and over again.
I would start with xenomorphs being created by Engineers, evolved by David and become self conscious and self-sufficient, a species in its own right, that was however unable to overcome the inability to multiply without hosts.
And I imagine David losing control over xenomorphs even before WY or the Engineers found his trace.
I liked Ripley8, but there's no better ending for Ripley than in Alien3. Alien Resurrection is the Jurassic Park of the Alien franchise. There no future for Ripley from there on, even if she made it alive.
But there was so much potential in the ending of Alien Covenant...
I like Alien3 for what it is and I did not care much about continuity, especially since all the characters except Ripley didn't make it to the next film. Even the xenomorph is not the same from one film to the next. And it seems the producers / writers / directors did not care much for continuity either.
But when I look again at the ending of Alien Covenant, man, that's the first time when I need to see some continuity.
Everyone has their opinion. And, as it happens, I share the above opinions! But I didn't have to overthink it. I just like Covenant for what it is. I know it backwards, like all the Alien movies, and really rate it.
Who knows how Alien 3 would have fared without the terrible studio interference that was inflicted on Fincher. It could have been a great film instead of a patched-together mess.
It's a nice enough monster, but
- the small number of fingers make it look crippled. The original Alien was scarier.
- An Alien is scarier if it doesn't snarl or howl like a deranged dog. Slavering in virtual silence, like the original, is far more menacing. Screaming in pain, like in Aliens, I can accept, and they are cool. The screams are part and parcel of being a self-serving deadly monster.
Absolutely.
I like Alien3...But killing off Newt,Hicks, Bishop...was just a little too much for me.
Not to mention: why was the Sulaco hovering above a prison colony? How did the Facehugger get aboard...stuff like that...
Love the Alien3 soundtrack...But I like Alien Covenant's soundtrack even more!
AC has a lot of flaws...but none I put in the Alien3 cate'gory '.
Thanks, but I don't think it was Event Horizon. More recent, maybe last 10 years. And I think fairly low-budget.
I wouldn't kill Call off, perhaps her old body is destroyed and she is transplanted in a new body (would be great work around Winona Ryder's age or if they recast her with a younger actress) and have her and Ripley relationship to slowly deteriorate over the coarse of the Film. Which forces Call to battle Ripley.
R8 transforming sounds pretty good, but if it would be a continuation of Resurrection, Call would have to have a role. The way the movie ended, they seemed like a package deal- unless they pull an Alien 3 and Call dies in the first couple minutes. It might be tricky since a lot of people don't want the franchise to be a Ripley story anymore, but I would be down with it.
Although I'm one of those fans who would like to see xenomorphs hives over and over again.
I do like option 3 the most. Because further improvements on the xenomorphs would certainly make them more dangerious.
Because Option 2 would make them too much like either the Zerg or Species 8472. Also the rapid evolving shtick is now over-used in sci-fi: Zergs, Species 8472, Shin Godzilla, G-virus mutants, Marvel Villians, DC Villians, Cylons, and Terminators
Option 1 i'm not a fan of because it renders the Engineers/Space Jockey importance moot, not to mention AVP-movie fans would connect the yaut'ja to the xenomorph's creation which no offense to the Yaut'ja but I don't think they don't look like the type of species to create artificial life.
@Thoughts_Dreams
I was thinking of a villain route for Ripley 8, like Alien Resurrection is her start of darkness; as I mention above. It would indeed erase her marvel super-hero characterization that was setted up in Resurrection and return to the cosmic horror story of the original alien. Hell I would even suggest that she would gradually molt into a xenomorph-like creature as her humanity slowly disappears over the coarse of the story.
