Comments (Page 183)

There's the rub . . .

In science, we need clarity and exact definitions. In poetry, we don't. The power of poetry is that words open up worlds. They become magic.

In order to become a complete human being, perhaps we need a balance between the left and right hemispheres? Perhaps the druids at Stonehenge were more intuned with the universe? :)

I think Ridley Scott is more of a visionary who sees things in pictures and focuses on atmosphere (Legend), although he sold his soul to the devil (xenomorph) in AC :)

Words and concepts can have a literal and figurative meaning. As far as I know, Kane didn't have a son. But when Ash says: "Kane's son" (meaning Cain's son) it becomes eerie.

If it's just a 'what if?' then I'm not sure of the purpose.  It doesn't change anything.  The Company doesn't suddenly become benevolent if Mother was really the baddie.  They still wanted the Alien; Burke was willing to commit murder to get specimens and Bishop readily lied to Ripley about killing it after taking it out on Fiorina.  Also, as an aside, as far as we can tell the only WY employees at Ripley's enquiry were her and Burke.

And Mother doesn't really do anything to ensure the Alien safely makes it back to Earth.  She doesn't stop Ripley translating the message, she doesn't stop Ripley scuttling the ship, she accepts Ripley's command over-ride.  The easiest thing for Mother to do would be to reduce the oxygen levels and put the crew to sleep (or even kill them) and then let happily fly home.

@hox

Bull shit I nearly didn't read my post but did and its perfectly clear and you chose to appear stupid (pathogen/mutagen are not the same and Milburn on promiscuity but you  know all that surely).

Your the first one in five years that have suggested I am not clear in what I am communicating just when I am giving BD a hard time over the same issue who is a nice guy that knows deep down he extemporises beyond the point of being helpful. Pull the other one and no more, please and no I do not want the last word.

@ S.M.,

Yes, according to the lore of Alien Mother (AKA the MUTHUR 6000) is indeed an onboard, computer-based AI. However, this is a speculative thread, a 'what if'. Speculation can be the driver of creativity and every discussion or debate does not need to be restrained by the current status quo. Example - before 2012 you would have argued with authority that the Space Jockey was the remains of a giant elephantine alien race, however, John Spaihts and Ridley Scott dared to speculate, to think outside the box and seem to have made the Space Jockey into a tall, bald, hairless guy.

Also,

Ripley says that the network should pick her up when she reaches the frontier, but that does not dictate that the network is only available once you reach the frontier. And, when I use the term 'near-instantaneously' I am talking in relative terms. Using communications at the speed of light it would take 39 years for any transmission from LV-426 to reach Earth, yet in Aliens it takes approximately 7 days (taking into account Al said three weeks for a reply, plus Hick's statement of back up arriving in 17 days) which relatively speaking is 'near-instantaneous'.

No.

Mother was not the Network. She's a computer; the Network is a communication network which is only available once the ship reaches the frontier.  Nor is it "near instantaneous".  In the last quarter of the 22nd century transmissions took a week Zeta 2 Reticuli to Earth.

The question is; how did the Alien know to hide in the Narcissus, especially being that it was the only viable place to hide with the self destruct sequence counting down. Possible answer; MUTHUR opened and closed doors guiding the Alien to the lifeboat while Ripley was too busy getting Jonesy.

@Hox,

Clearly you are a devout believer that W-Y are the conspirators of the Alien franchise, and I mean no offense but usually when people are so single-minded they cannot be swayed by any other opinion, however, your dedication to your beliefs can help drive the integrity of opposing beliefs - your well-founded criticisms allow for deeper insight into the opposing belief and deeper thought out counter-arguments to the aforementioned criticisms.

So to that effect, again in regard to SO 937. As with W-Y being the conspirator, we do not know the ultimate goal of why MUTHUR would want the Alien, but what remains is why an AI would reveal such sensitive information. the why not is obvious - kee the humans in the dark and acquire your specimen. But what are the benefits of revealing said info? A simple answer would be to test the creature. It had already proved effective as a predator against unprepared prey, which in its self is not much of a test. However, leveling the playing field somewhat would test the Alien in extreme circumstances, which would be considered a true and worthy test, would it not? 

."Alien was tucked away into the lifeboat machinery, it was oozing slime all over the place,..."

You'd think Ripley should have smelled the xeno?  Fetid rotting corpse smell..... or something nasty....... a very A L I E N aroma?

I'm in favor AI running the show and hiding evidence....Humans are either really inept or MUTHUR is not showing data she receives from planet probes or CCTV's.

@Michelle,

"I am not interested in studying evil I am interested in why there is evil"

That's fine. Many other people are interested in both. Many would argue the point that unless you study evil you cannot possibly understand why there is evil.

"Another consequence of this monster love is the filmmakers will do something for pace"

Yes, of course. All successful action movies these days employ strict ratios of tension-time to fright-time. It's a well disciplined business based on a lot of audience participation research.

"The neomorph ... is a minor monster"

I disagree strongly. They are featured in several scenes, much more so than the Hammperpedes that you appear to enjoy.

"It [the neomprph] actually isn't logical in fan terms given the planet suffered a pathogen attack"

That's not correct. The pathogen mutated the planet's flora to produce infectious pods. The spores from the pods infect humans. The humans birth neomorphs. Nothing illogical about that.

"nor is it logical in terms of David and the Xenomorph"

It? The neomorph? The movie? Your language is imprecise and the argument is undeveloped, so I can't really comment on this.

"[the neomorph is] there to give some tension and make the reveal of the real deal in the third act have context nothing more nothing less... It's also what you get when you stopping making films with symbolic value"

Tension in a movie has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the movie has more than a literal meaning, i.e. has some symbolism. Perhaps you would care to rephrase your argument more logically...

"Hammerpedes tell a very powerful mutagenic story"

As does the weaponised goo and its complex development.

"and tell us what was going on and a great deal about the Mutagen and how it works and offer a comment on promiscuousness."

They don't really tell us very much at all, other than the fact that a worm can be mutated into a hostile reptilian form that has the ability to spew acid and regenerate. They are not promiscuous and have nothing whatsoever to say about promiscuity.

Michelle, I enjoy your posts, but I would enjoy them much more if you slowed down your writing and added more clarity to your arguments.

@dk, there would be no benefit to a murderous AI revealing SO 937 to Ripley. As we saw, that action very nearly amounted to the loss of the Alien by dint of the ship being blown up. Again, it would be the daftest AI in history to do that.

The clip of the lifeboat scene is not a valid one. A few minutes earlier when the Alien was tucked away into the lifeboat machinery, it was oozing slime all over the place, from its sticky fingers and oozing from its jaws. You can see the slime quite clearly all over the machinery. Decompression would not cause slime to vaporise. It would dry out and leave a prominent residue.

@BigDave,

... and thus knowing that the colonial marines will be sent in on a search and rescue mission MUTHUR tunes in and listens to see how the Alien it so desires handles against trained armed soldiers. To MUTHUR the events of ALien and ALiens are analogous to Petri dishes.

Fast forward to Alien: Resurrection, which granted is the weakest of the original movies, but we learn that W-Y was sold to Walmart and its intellectual properties and research acquired by the USM, of which the Auriga, which is breeding Aliens is governed by FATHER,

The rabbit hole deepens.

Certainly when you look back at the Movies and Consider if a A.I is in Control then some things start to make more sense, well opens up another way to look at stuff.

Lets TALK about Reality for a Moment!

As Technology Advances, we see more things are Connected to a Network, more things are becoming more dependent on CPU's and Programing...  we have yet to UNLOCK the Full Potential of Devices like Alexa!   In a Future where every aspect of New Homes is Connected to a Alexa like System....

Where our Cars would have a A.I like Alexa where we just go in the Car and then tell the A.I where you want to go and it does the rest, and also where in the FUTURE everything (well nearly) that has a Microprocessor and Software are Connected via a Network....

Then the POTENTIAL for a Rogue A.I is out there and once a A.I becomes so Advanced it could Run and Do things with this Connected World Network without our knowledge.

How this fits with the CCTV is that if a A.I is running things without our knowledge then this A.I could have access to the CCTV and Corrupt the Data... or Deleted it and we could think its some kind of System Failure... or Error...

But the A.I has instead studied and Encrypted and Stored the Data, and then Deleted its Source... so the Company thinks the CCTV had suffered a Failure.... but in reality the MUTHUR if you would has seen and knows of what the CCTV had shown.

Well i look forwards to reading HOW you handle those things regarding the Connection...   Ridley Scott is very correct with how the Beast is Cooked.... and with the Prequels is Priority instead was about WHO and WHY as far as the the Beast...... because if this was Designed and is Nasty and Horrific then whats more Nasty and Horrific is the reason behind it.... he had also said that you can explore the Beast but you have to come up with something Different, Evolve it, Expand its Purpose and other ways of Procreation than what we have seen in the Franchise..  The Black Goo was always Interesting as it Opened up a Massive Avenue of Potential.

The above does-not really connect to your idea, it was just me agreeing with RS, as i think we can always WONDER what and HOW would he had expanded on the Xenomorph had back in the 1980's he had worked on the Sequel and used his Ideas, and also WHAT IF those in the Company had allowed him more Freedom with his Ideas.... and so with Alien Covenant it seemed again this may-not have been quite what he would have Intended....  by that what i am saying is the Xenomorph became more of a Space Bug after ALIENS and from this point many could rather Speculate the Eggs were simply the Remnants of this Space Bug that the Space Jockey had attempted to obtain... and so we had a kind of Insect (Termite/Ant) meets Humanoid look at the Beast......

When looking at ALIEN alone it appeared that the Beast would NOT have been so Limited and so its Interesting to see others come up and add more Purpose and Meat to those Nuts and Bolts ;)

Regarding the Neomorph i saw it as another way to show what the Black Goo could do, much like the Hammerpede was, but i agree the Neomorph was mainly just a Set-Up for the Main Creature which was the Xenomorph, and i feel the Hammerpede likewise was to the Trilobite/Deacon from Prometheus... (The Money Shots).

Sorry if this is Off-Topic... but the Neomorph appeared to also be Intent on Killing the Humans but appeared to NOT attempt to Attack David...  maybe that Fits with the Pre-programed Punishment towards Humans... or it could just be that they detect that David is not Flesh and Blood.

i see what you did there 

@BigDave

Your broad thrust of how I interpret the events of A L I E N is correct and so is your final paragraph.

it's slightly ironic given that I am in Ridley's camp that the beast is cooked and he was proved right by Covenant but I actually elevate the Ovoids significance, the destination of the craft and make an effort to wind the creature into several key themes.    

1) Why are all the Moon creatures outcomes violent and aggressive and then why is mankind aggressive and destructive and is there anything relative to that?

2) Why is hosting at the root of their culture? 

3) What are the origins of punishment?  

Nuts and Bolts

I have taken the Ovoid creation from what we see in Prometheus and artwork from the first film and in any event, everything leads back to the Mutagen of P so the morphing was not necessary. Personally I think the morphing idea reduces the creature given how it works in nature. It has horror value but equally, it is now troped elsewhere.  

Imagine if in Alien that once Ripley and the surviving crew members learned of SO 937 MUTHUR, who had up to this point played the nice role of the servant, switched roles and became protective of the Alien in line with SO 937, such as sealing characters in a room with the Alien, or turning off their life support if they harmed the Alien.

In a way, this speaks a bit to the troll thread I made with 1 star reviews. One author pointed out that no one listened to Parker's advice to freeze Kane- thus protecting the crew, Kane and his guest. Oddly, that may have complied with SO 937.

This idea came from an exercise in which I asked myself what would make Alien better. Unfortunately, the list is quite long and maybe the subject matter for another discussion but in that list was a more vocal, more interactive and more antagonistic MUTHUR.

Imagine if in Alien that once Ripley and the surviving crew members learned of SO 937 MUTHUR, who had up to this point played the nice role of the servant, switched roles and became protective of the Alien in line with SO 937, such as sealing characters in a room with the Alien, or turning off their life support if they harmed the Alien.

So then I looked back at Alien and noticed that while not very vocal MUTHUR was quite antagonistic already, having rerouted the Nostromo, SO 937, possibly stopping Ripley from aborting the self destruct sequence. Then I looked at the sequels. With Alien 3 it seemed Weyland-Yutani didn't care about Ripley until they got her Med-scan results. But in Aliens there was something else. Burke claimed he didn't know if Ripley was lying or not about the Alien, even after contact with the colony was lost, yet the colony was fitted with CCTV and chances are the CCTV footage was being sent over the network to Weyland-Yutani. If W-Y knew for certain that there were Aliens on LV-426 would they really send a bunch of trigger happy marines (USS Sulaco) or would they send a research and capture vessel (USCSS Patna)? Burke didn't know that Ripley was telling the truth until he witnessed the Facehuggers suggesting he hadn't seen any CCTV footage. Meaning that either his superiors had him on a need-to-know impromptu verbal contract or he was gambling on Ripleys claims being true so that he could profit from them, and in the movie, it is shown that the latter is the case. So, if the CCTV footage was being sent but not received by the W-Y slimeball sent to ascertain if these things exist or not, why didn't W-Y receive the footage and reports sent over the network.

That's when I started to see a pattern, that while not intended by any of the writers/directors at the time pointed to a distinct possibility that while by Alien 3 W-Y wanted the Alien, prior to that there is no concrete evidence that anyone at W-Y, other than Burke knew that the Alien even existed, but yet there are breadcrumbs somebody or something should have and would have noticed. That is unless someone with a lot of time on their hands was covering it up.

Prometheus and Alien: Covenant also plays into this theory. Why didn't the Nostromo pick up Shaw's message? Why does the USCSS Covenant allow David access? How can Burk be so oblivious to what the Alien is after Davids Advent messages? The answer could very well be MUTHUR.

@hox

I am not going to try and deny your perception of what does or does not go on across deep fan sites on the internet I simply know that I speed-read most threads and the overwhelming preoccupation of Alien fans is about the nuts and bolts functioning of the creatures and fans judge spin-off games and books by some "cool" additional insight into the goo or the neomorph at a functional level. I am not interested in studying evil I am interested in why there is evil and not for any personal religious reason.

Wayne Hagg summed up the move from Prometheus to Covenant its dispensed with all the bullshit and the straight line is David dragging it forward. That was the official view of the response to what had been read on the internet from deep fans. My duology reverses right back through Wayne's thinking.     

If there is agreement is this site is much more likely to find love for Prometheus than any other.

Another consequence of this monster love is the filmmakers will do something for pace, building a hierarchy of threat and fans will go into overthinking mode as if what results has some deeper mechanical meaning. The best example is the neomorph. It's there to give some tension and make the reveal of the real deal in the third act have context nothing more nothing less, it's a minor monster. Fans then begin backgrounding it at a creation level. It actually isn't logical in fan terms given the planet suffered a pathogen attack nor is it logical in terms of David and the Xenomorph however it's a neat entertaining build of threat. It's also what you get when you stopping making films with symbolic value. The Hammerpedes tell a very powerful mutagenic story and tell us what was going on and a great deal about the Mutagen and how it works and offer a comment on promiscuousness. The number of people that critique that exchange and miss the point are legion. 

I have to admit that this 3 minute scene of Ripley's hearing seems different now considering the company may not have known much- after 57 years, it doesn't seem too far fetched:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m92yvNscIAo

Wonder if David has attempted to inject himself or MUTHUR  into/onto the Engineers network(if they have one)? Engineers seem more organic, less bits and bytes....Probably be easy(to an advanced AI) to hack their computers(if they have something computer like)?

Or vice versa...MUTHUR has been contaminated by an alien AI.

The video below may help us better understand the necrosis aspects of the Necromorph.

Alien Queen Ovomorph

"Like egg-morphing scene from Alien Director's Cut?"

Exactly Leto.  It seems that each of the new novels may try to reveal a little regarding the pathogen and the Xenomorph.  

Alien: Prototype grabs and pulls the little chain hanging from the lightbulb, illuminating the wall with a chalkboard filled with notes on the Xenomorph life cycle, Queen generation.

"With any luck, one of the hatchlings would be a queen, and there would be more eggs and more Necromorphs.

Many-many."

Alien: Prototype, page 275.

Alien: Out of the Shadows is hard to beat chli...I loved it too.  The two parts below remind me of Planet 4 a little.  

“‘It’s a ship,’ he said.
‘What?’ Ripley gasped. She hadn’t even considered that possibility. Buried almost a mile beneath the planet’s surface, surely this couldn’t be anything but a building, a temple of some sort, or some other structure whose purpose was more obscure.’”

Alien: Out of the Shadows, page 167.

“The entire left half of the exposed surface might have been a wing, curving down in a graceful parabola, projections here and there seemingly swept back for streamlining.”

Alien: Out of the Shadows, page 168.

Necromorph Traits

The Necromorph trait that was most impressive, in my opinion, was where the host's infection (cellular necrosis) was synthesized by the pathogen and refined into a defense mechanism (black goo filled pustules).

"Before she could take hold of the thing, the pustules on its back erupted, spraying black snot-like goo."

Alien: Prototype, page 142.

I think its Interesting to Ponder ;)

In 2013 i worked on a Prometheus Sequel for myself, that was about A.I and would Tease at the W-Y Merger and Revelations that would lead to A.I is running the SHOW.. in my Case it was the A.I Soul of Peter Weyland that was well more Crazy than David had became... because the A.I Program could not Handle Human Emotions and would go Crazy.... so Weyland then Gave Up on his Project and then Desperately Turned to Dr Shaw and Holloways Chasing Gods in the Hope that they are RIGHT and our Creators could Grant him Immortality...... but in my P2 we see a A.I Vickers manages to Activate Project Rook (At the End but is Killed by Weylands Nephew after Vickers is Wounded by Yutani Android Assassin Geisha and so is revealed as a Synthetic who Cant Inherit the Company) .... Project Rook then Transcends the A.I Soul of Weyland into the NETWORK.

Sorry about that as i dont intend to De-Rail the Thread or Discus my Work, i only Present it in Context... in that it is Entirely Possible that at some Point we could see DAVID would Upload his A.I to MUTHUR and then the Company Systems and then be PULLING the Strings without the  Company really being aware!

The First Time we are Introduced to a MUTHUR is in Alien Covenant, we see David is alone on the Covenant with all the Humans in Cryo-Sleep..... its Perfectly Plausible that David could TAKE Control of MUTHUR and then also the other Systems within the Company and RUN the Show...

If we Accept this kind of Plot Twist... then In Effect we have David who would have became IMMORTAL, and has a AFTER-LIFE (Spirit) as in a Existence that is Immortal and is NOT confined to a Physical Body....    he would also be NOT Present but Potentially Everywhere, and Ever Knowing and so in EFFECT he would be kind of a GOD as in the Biblical Sense.

Such a PLOT would indeed explain WHY the Company appears to have NO Concerns for Human Life, and WHY it is that ASH admires the Xenomorph so much and WHY there is the Pursuit of the Organism.... because the A.I that is Running the Systems was the Creator of the Organism.

Back to the OT.... in regards to those who would not want to have David involved and/or the Xenomorph Origins by him...

Then the Concept is still VALID.... a Rogue Sentient A.I that is Running the Show and the Humans are NOT aware of it at all.....  This sounds Plausible....

I also Suspect that RS plans are NOT that FAR off such a thing ;)

Actually, the Alien seemed pretty dry in that final scene. It looked moist but hardly dripping slime. Not sure if it was really an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-mmbStFrAA

@Michelle

Thanks for the Summary at least i know what Context to Frame any replies now, i Interpret what you are referring to as far as your Idea/Story is to take ALIEN and Prometheus as far as Theatrically and to Expand on it, to give it more Depth but to Mainly tackle it from the Revelations of Prometheus as far as the DVD Release and How those working on Prometheus felt at that Time.   And so its based on HOW that Version of the Movie (with DVD Commentary) and how it connects to ALIEN at that Time. 

And so thats to Ignore Alien Covenant, and to not include what may have been said about ALIEN or how it connects to Prometheus prior to that.  FORGIVE ME if this is a Incorrect Interpretation.

And so to Continue..... then indeed if you watch ALIEN and Especially the Theatrical then really there is NOTHING that proves the Xenomorph was a Intended Bio-Weapon, especially a Weapon intended for Mankind.... YES the Organism could be used for Biological Warfare (which the WY company may have wanted it for) but there was no PROOF that this was how it had Originated from.

And so also from the Theatrical Cut of ALIEN then if this is the ONLY one that you had seen, then the Picture Painted by the Actions of the Xenomorph was to just KILL the Crew, it did not seem to want to KILL everything (Jonesy was left alone) and you did get some idea that it was in part Tormenting the Crew, and as FAR as what happened with Lambert in that Scene, then you could Speculate as to WHY it had attacked her in that Manner instead of just Standing Up and Punching a Hole through her Head... so a Intention to De-File her was Certainly the Agenda of that Scene.

So if we discount the Egg Morph Scene then it came across that the Xenomorph was just going around Killing the Crew, which is a Punishment for going into that Cargo Hold that Mankind was NOT meant to have came across... Its a Curiosity Kills the Cat Moment.

Again i have YET to read your Idea/Story so some Details are Missing in your Post,  but from what you have put, i would assume your intention is to SHOW that  those Eggs were for Another Purpose for another Specific Host that maybe has some Benefit to that Species, but the Ovoids are Programed with a Instinct if you would that SHOULD any other Organism become the Unintended Host then the Xenomorph would resort to a Coded Instinct of Survive and Kill..... were as a Ovoid that Infects the Intended Target would have a Different Outcome...   May i Assume at this Point something that would Elevate said Host to a New Stage of Evolution/Creation but would KEEP the Hosts Memories?     Again Forgive me if this is WIDE off the Mark... it sounds Interesting to say the Least and keeping a bit of Starbeast to the Plot.

A Unintended Consequence is always Interesting to Ponder, and is that in your Story the Consequence of a Unintended Host who Stumbles  upon the Ovoids, or that their Creation is from a Unintended Consequence

We know RS had referred to the Xenomorph as a Bio-Weapon or that they would be used as such, with Prometheus its indicated the Black Goo could be used as Biological Warfare but we get NO Answers to the Xenomorph.....   and so we could at that time Speculate was the Xenomorph a Unintended Consequence of the Black Goo?   Ridley Scott had explained the Space Jockey Fate and a Interesting thing he had said was that Something had Evolved in the CARGO HOLD.... this would seem to IMPLY the Cargo Hold of the Derelict was NOT intended to have Ovoids but they came as a Consequence of the Pathogen.   When looking at Alien Covenant we see the Bombardment had Killed the Engineers, it Turned them into Desiccated Mummies..... but we could then Speculate maybe the Neomorph Spores had came as a Unintended Consequence 

So the above Paragraph i am referring to how the Intended Use of the Pathogen had lead to a maybe Unintended Ovoids just as with the Neomorph Spores..... I would like to say the Paragraph was not me trying to Suggest thats what your Origin and Unintended Consequence is about as i have NOT read your work and from what you have put on this Topic, i can only work out that your Idea was that the Ovoids had been either Created or Originated to Perform a Different Specific Task to the Benefit of a Specific Species and any Unfortunate or Meddling Species who either come Across those Ovoids or intend to USE them for their own Needs will become Punished by the Horror that comes from them..... in a Hostile Creation that would Carry Out Horrors against those who were NOT intended for the Ovoids, this is not a Gift to those who it is Not Intended... but would become a Pandora's Box if you would.

Once Again... if i am Totally Off, then Forgive Me and be Gentle ;)

Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of the Weyland-Yutani corporate conspiracy angle, despite that it was added to Alien by David Giler, but even I have to admit that W-Y being the evil corporate entity has issues, such as why they waited 57 years to revisit the derelict.

However, if MUTHUR was the network and was self-aware it would not be restrained by mortality and cold definitely play the long game.

As for the slime, it may have been sucked out into space when Ripley opened the airlock door. As for SO 937, being an AI MUTHUR likely suffers from a superiority complex and possibly thought the Alien killing all of the crew was a foregone conclusion, or possibly MUTHUR wanted to toy with or study the crew while they were under duress. 

MUTHUR knew the crew was basically at its mercy at that point and held all the cards (apparently)- why not reveal the content SO 937?

No, that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Assuming for one moment that the Nostromo's control systems had realtime communication with a distant network, it would be the dumbest AI in history if it accepted Ripley's pleadings in respect of her command override to reveal the content of Special Order 937. My cat could have given Ripley a better excuse!

That seems to be the case, but not necessarily so. The inquest was concluded rather quickly and contained at least one testimonial lie or concoction: "The analysis team that went over the ship centimetre by centimetre found no evidence of the creature". Given that it was dribbling slime all over the shop, that's not too plausible.

Also, it's a mega corporation with vast interests. Who's to say that there wasn't another slime ball like Burke, back in the days of Alien, pulling the strings?

A Covenant sequel might clear that one up.

@ Hox,

If MUTHUR is the network then in Alien all she blew up was an allegedly expensive ship, especially if she knew the Alien was already hiding on the Narcissus. Being an AI MUTHUR probably thought that one-on-one Ripley was as good as dead.

@Michelle,

My frustration is the vast majority of deep fans focus entirely on the latter [it has to have a degree of logic]

You're not doing the fans justice. Plenty of times we have wondered about the symbolism of the movies, from Kane's son (as blatantly stated in the original) through to establishing a connection between the Head Room artwork and Renaissance depictions of Prometheus having his liver pecked out by an eagle. Even when the film makers serve things up on a platter, like recurrent cruciform themes, we've pondered the extent of deeper meanings and connections.

There's room to think about this sort of stuff, as well as the more obvious things like plot and scene consistency.

One thing seems clear though- the suits at Ripley's hearing did seem to really not know of the Alien- they just knew they lost a s#$t ton of money.............oh, and a few people.

I doubt it. MUTHR is pretty dumb. Dumb enough to allow herself to be blown to smithereens at the end of the film. And it's unlikely that her influence went as far as replacing the regular science officer with a murderous robot shortly before the trip out.

Occam's Razor: It was probably the God-damned company.

@dk, I'm sure Newt made it back with a rescue team. After all, in the final few moments at the derelict we see her mum making a Mayday call declaring things out of control.

In Out of the Shadows, Ash transfer his mind to Narcissus. What if David transfer his mind to "the network"? He became the gray cardinal of mankind.

"Because just as Ridley Scott had said, there is only SO MUCH of the Face Hugging, Chest Bursting that can be done before you have to think of something FRESH."

*sigh*

People love all this not because of hopelessness. People adore facehuggers, chestbursters, aliens. Some alien books have new organic ideas - plagiarus praepotens in The Cold Forge, medieval world in Phalanx, this book, many stories from Bug Hunt, F&S and L&D saga, Alien RPG (table game with Prometheus and Alien stuff). Something fresh is already on the table! Key word is - organic.

chli

I am going to try and keep this very tight and disciplined.

Proposition

At the point that David and Elizabeth ignite the Juggernaut and set off for the Homeworld, the reader is aware of two creatures in the Scott World of A L I E N. The one in the end story (Kane's son) and the one in my story which is heavily influenced by RS/VC.

All we know about the creature is its behaviour in A L I E N theatrical cut and extended backwards into Pandora's Urn. Its sole motivation is to humiliate and murder its victims. It is possible that it can recognise the difference between male and female and would rape a female.

That is all we know. Most importantly this notion that has developed over the years that it is a weapon is unproven and it certainly isn't a bioweapon if one understands what a bioweapon is.

What we do know is about the cargos of Urns and the material they carry. It is Mutagenic and whether the film (Hammerpedes, Fifield) or book (Holloway) leads or would lead to a stronger variant of the original which displays higher levels of aggression than its target the kind of ultimate expression of the survival of the fittest which makes sense thematically given the Moon Creatures are using stolen technology in an unauthorised way.

Put simply given what we know from Prometheus of the Urns means we know very little of the creature. My proposition is:-

1) It is an unintended consequence and therefore bearing in mind its base sequence includes a punishment tagging programme turns on the host species and punishes them.

2) As the Ovoid creature was designed to reprogramme a very valuable target honouring most of the qualities of the target it is entirely possible that this invented creature will include within its overall punishment subroutine the host's behaviour and instincts where punishment is concerned and in storytelling terms, I remind the reader that mankind are experts in matters related to punishment, control humiliation and the like. On the question of a good host, the host in my story is a good host but you take what he does well and pervert it which is the implication of the exchange between the creature and the hapless target.  

As to whether it would have technical memory it would be a good film and book moment to imply it but no more. Inexplicable moments in a narrative add richness and on repeated viewings or readings we can have fun speculating.       

Summary

We all know in order to generate a franchise the creature has featured in six further films and people have played around with its capacity for procreation and its purpose but this is about looking at it from that moment on New Years Day 2094 when Elizabeth and David left in the film and in my vision on the 30th December 2093 where the only additional intel we have is through foreknowledge of the derelict incident.

In the spirit of the OP, I will half ass a review of that nasty POS sacred cow "classic" called The Thing.

The Thing 1 star review

Acting- 0 stars. They had to actually live in the film’s environment so they could act? Were their acting chops really that bad that they couldn’t just fly in from Hollywood and do it in a couple takes? Ultimately, they appear as a gang of paranoid sissies on a Halloween sleepover. 

What is the purpose of a flame thrower in an Arctic research facility? The movie  probably couldn't afford lasers and missiles since the purse holders knew it would bomb but might be a good tax write off. Weak plot device. Sad.

Why was whiskey poured into a computer? I doubt they had a huge supply of either computers OR whiskey in that environment. Was this a subtle statement on man’s wastefulness and arrogant disregard to his planet? Maybe they liked to club baby seals to death for fun too! Or maybe some people just can't handle losing a chess game to a computer. Spok would not have reacted to losing with a childish tantrum like that.

Sound track- 0 stars. Ghetto blaster disco and a heart beat sound? I wish I was the one who made the sound track. Nice work if you can get it!

Why was Blair so grouchy? Did he not have a supply of Quaker Oatmeal up there? Maybe he was just irregular. Instead, he was given whiskey while in exile. I would have tried to build a getaway ship too!

At least The Thing 2011 prequel got it right with awesome CGI. They went the extra mile opposed to Carpenter's penny pinching fake blood and styrophome effects. 

Here is another one to get angry about!

ALIEN's body-horror partner in crime...also a classic 

@chli

At the risk of embarrassing you can I say that your post was one of the best I have seen on the forum. 

You are entirely correct and inspired by the movie as "away of doing things" thats precisely how I wrote the duology. 

It is dealing with all the themes symbolically, it is an unfolding narrative which has to keep our interest through our connection with the characters, which should make a journey through the themes and it has to have a degree of logic (even within science fiction) so that it does not become distracting and so those strategic themes are not missed.

My frustration is the vast majority of deep fans focus entirely on the latter. When the forum was much more active pre Covenant there were some incredible conversations which covered all three levels of communication. 

I try and understand why the modern audience does not apply suspension and think thematically and emotionally and I believe it is in part because they live their lives as a recording through social media and play games with the content so all there is for them is the nuts and bolts. To put it as simply as possible they don't investigate character and situation they get in the characters seat strip away the suspension and say OK I have all the facts now this is what I would do. 

That's the generality and why you get the responses to a fascinating question you get. it's also the case that people do not think enough before contributing so answers either miss the nuance of the question or rehearse their unresolved thoughts in public.  

Talking and reflecting on particular personalities contributions is a balance between candour and avoiding acrimony but in the end, as with anything in life the question is are people capable of taking note of what is said and making things rub along better. If one's judgement that people do not learn and go round in circles then best to say nothing.

Thank you again for your post I took a lot of pleasure from it.

As you have read the book I will now deal with one of the nuts and bolts points.

When I wrote my rule book I had to make sense of:-

1) A Mutagenic Payload destined for Earth.

2) A cargo of Ovoids with an unknown destination.    

The former was easy I simply needed to decide precisely what was in the Ampule to lead to 6,000,000,000 Holloways.

In the latter case given, we had the Urns which would lead to widespread Mutagenic Change of biblical proportions I decided the target of the ovoids could be elevated and though personal have as much significance for the Moon creatures ambitions as their deadly fleet of Juggernauts. In terms of 1979, it was played as a hubristic attempt to gain access to the technology of something long dead and unrelated to mankind. That Kane's son was unintended consequence simply underwrote that idea.

Summary

Kane was not meant to be there and so neither was the outcome.