Comments (Page 201)
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I think its safe to assume.... the Xenomorph has TWO Objectives.
WHAT can it use to Procreate....
WHAT would pose a Threat to its Existence and ability to Procreate.
So Jonesy would be seen as NOT a threat, but then maybe a Viable Means to Procreate.
Regarding FOOD, i would assume if the Xenomorph requires such things (indicated in drafts/novels) then it would not PASS UP a Jonesy Snack!
Regarding HOW FAR away places like Planet 4 and Origae-6 are these depends on knowing either their Distance in Light Years, or how FAST the Covenant could Travel.
What we know is it must have taken 10-12 Months to Reach Planet 4 and it would have taken another 7 Years and 4 Months to get to Origae-6 (minus few weeks). It had taken the Prometheus 2 Years to get to LV-223, we can assume LV-223 and LV-426 are located close by certainly at most a few Light Years, and the Nostromo would have taken 10 Months to get back to our System.
So what we have is a Improvement in Space Travel as our Technology Advances, i think Regarding Communication Times thats a Good Question, we have to ASSUME that Communications would take about the same time that the Current Ships FTL Technology takes, but its just a Assumption. I think there was some Information on how long the Covenants Transmission to Weyland-Yutani would take i would have to try and Locate it... but i think it was 12-18 Months? Not 100% Sure.
I can only Assume that Dr Shaws Transmission from LV-223 was via the Life-Boat and we can only Ponder when this STOPPED being Transmitted and WHY.... regarding the Planet 4 one then it appeared to be a Fluke on how the Covenant Managed to Detect it.
I would assume that Planet 4 maybe had some way it Prevents Signals, and maybe the Neutrino Burst could have effected this? Or even if not, it appeared that the Signal was Weak and it was only via the Neutrino Burst Event that they would have detected it.
Regarding what becomes of LV-223, Planet 4 and Origae-6 thats a BIG QUESTION... i think it depends on the Agenda of who ever would be there LAST!
Would the Engineers want to ERADICATE those Places... i would assume so, i think some of Mankind would want to Destroy them too, but HOW? but you will have some Greedy Corporation who would always want to Preserve the Place... would they want to DESTROY them ONCE they have obtained a Specimen to Prevent others from Obtaining the Same? I would think so... unless Mankind is GOVERNED by ONE Ruling Body/Counsel.
@MonsterZero
I know a number of Fans would have wanted to see a HELL ON EARTH where Xenomorphs Finally got down and had Infested the Planet.
We dont know IF this had happened in the Past, post ALIEN 3, but would assume its NOT the case or at least to a Great Extent by the Year 2386, so a likely PLACE in Time for your idea could be as a Result of the USM Auriga Destruction/Crash and the Aftermath on Earth.
The Earth already looked in a State of War/Destruction prior to that... so some Conflict had Occurred that maybe was NOT related to the Xenomorph, and likely the Acquiring of a Xenomorph was the Plan to Engineer a Weapon for the Benefit of ONE side of such a Earth Conflict.
So indeed maybe 50, 100 or more years after the Events of Alien Resurrection the Earth could be Infested... would MANKIND want the Earth back?
I would doubt it, as by then its likely Mankind has Terra-formed and Discovered other Earth like Worlds... and Technology and Speeds to get to those Worlds would be GREATLY improved compared to the Time of ALIEN.
But as FAR as to go back to obtain some Relics, Artifacts, Art or other Parts of History then i think YES some would want to go and try and RESCUE such Historic things.... at what COST?
Taking a Risk to bring back a Xenomorph Infection would be a Hubris of such a Endeavor so YES that could work as a Movie or TV Series ;)
Archeologist and the like take Great Risks in exploring the Sea Floor for such things... rather than to let them ROT and be Forgotten, they take the Risks to Recover them... so YES as a Plot that works for me ;)
@Chli
Certainly i remember having a similar discussion on another thread some time back, where INDEED that is something i Overlooked then, which then i had discussed that actually INDEED, if you know you have a Gestating Queen (depends on how much you know about the Organism) then if the Company know about a Queen and that it would indeed Provide them with Eggs... then going down and obtaining a Gestating Queen/Chest Buster would be more IDEAL and much more SAFE... you can Control and Set-Up a Safe Containment for a Queen thats NOT a Adult.... and obtaining a Queen is a avenue to more Eggs, than actually the Dangers of going to LV-426 to obtain Eggs or try and obtain a Queen.
It would seem the USCSS Patna could already had been heading towards LV-426, and so getting a Message that Fiona 161 has a Impregnated Host with a Queen would mean they would NOT have to go to LV-426.
So INDEED only going after Ripley does-not mean all other Avenues are BUST... not as Far as the Aliens-Alien 3 Time-Line and so it would leave it open to go to LV-426 and look at what could be Salvaged in the wake of Ripleys Self Sacrifice.
I think it still leaves the Point about Alien Resurrection as Valid, to a degree.... but again IF they think that Clone Ripley in order to obtain and then try and Extract Xenomorph DNA/Queen is the better way than going back to LV-426 and the Risks Involved, we have to ask WHY did they WAIT over 200 years?
I think sure they could have tried to go back to LV-426 after the Year 2179, maybe they attempted and Failed and this lead to NO OTHER means of obtaining a Organism at some point in Future... Post 2180 and Prior to 2380
So in context to the OT, then YES we could explore avenues for movies based from LV-426 after ALIEN 3 but then i think Eventually before we get to 2380 then i would ASSUME they have NO options but to try and Clone Ripley.
The Prequels are a Different Kettle of Fish, we dont know how they would END, so we dont know if Planet 4 and LV-223 are left as they are at Present (Year 2105) and remain the same as of 2122, i think its possible... but i would ASSUME that by the Time of ALIENS in 2179 that those Places have NOTHING they consider worth going for apart from Ripley.
More so 200 Years latter, as going to LV-426, LV-223 and Planet 4 would be more suitable than to Clone Ripley, well maybe you would think IF there was other avenues MANY YEARS after 2180 then they surely would have ATTEMPTED....
I guess that could give another avenue for another Movie too ;)
@Michelle Johnston To be very honest "Why would you make monsters?" is answered also answering by studying the case of David the incel Android and his rapey urges.
Hi Chilli,
The reason why I called the two books Theodicy was just a slight variation of your interpretation. Essentially it is why is there evil in the world. During the documentary the gentleman from Fox says Prometheus is about "Why would you make monsters." That is a nice Fox power phrase which is essentially saying the same thing.
I think you get to the root of why Lindelof/Scott's Prometheus 2 was never made. Not only does Prometheus hijack the Alien Universe but it would then have moved forward with an even handed view of outcomes. The Alien straight jacket does not allow for that, the brand is about horror and monsters within a dystopian vision.
The reason I wrote the continuation novel was very selfish I wanted to be able to watch Prometheus knowing that what happened meant something.
But when Elizabeth and David set off into the heavens I decided I could take the story anywhere. We didn't have to do bad robot though he might be. We didn't have to do gung-ho Lesbian icon woman more empowered than men who survives.
I think the ultimate message of the books is centred on Ridleys comment it is arrogance to suppose two things :-
1) We are alone.
2) We are the big players we maybe a side show.
If the books reveal anything personal rather than tell a story it is my view of who we are and why we are the way we are.
And for anyone else reading this thread thanks for keeping it on topic which is essentially:-
1) Prometheus July 2012 and what was intended.
2) What an obsessive hobbyist has done to solve a problem.
Finally I am quite energised by watching the documentary and have decided rather than the rather intellectualised title I have changed it to
Prometheus : The Furious Gods.
It looks great, it sounds great and it has application.
I still can't believe they rebuilt the Space Jockey set. Such a small little scene..could have built it digitally. Maybe they stored it and are going to use it for Covenant 2?
Not enough nutrients in a cat....Not enough of a meal?
Sense of smell must be incredible? determining Ripley was carrying a queen.
I really don't know why a xeno attacks anything...can they smell fear pheromones?
If the hero stood still or stayed 'frosty' would the xeno ingnore them?
Michelle
I guess I’ll wait to comment until I’ve read your story but “theodicy” is the problem of how a benevolent and omnipotent God can accept different kinds of evil and misery in his creation. I’m very much interested in your solution.
Also, I came to think about what Tolkien said in “On Fairy-Stories”. Stories should have a happy ending ("eucatastrophe”). Perhaps R. Scott’s visions are too dystopic?
Anyway, I look very much forward to reading your story.
Leto Nice find! That seems too close to be a coincidence. I wonder if there were writers involved in both movies or if there was an old script or template writers worked from for both movies.
@chli
You are most welcome to read it. I am currently going through a period of revision. Much of it is routine sharpening both the prose and dialogue so it speaks more directly but also the art work on the Blu ray has inspired me to offer richer descriptions so I will continue to work on that and get back to you. As matter of interest where the art work anticipates and covers the same areas are :-
1) Elizabeths first site of the surreal beauty of their achievements oddly enough she approaches it in the same way in my work as the original ending of the film where she comes across a wonderful terra formed under ground cavern.
2) The source of their technology.
3) Their natural look (as opposed to the altered state of the LV223 creatures).
At a philosophical level I gave a lot of thought to the revelation of mankind's beginning why are we "a silly greedy people", what caused the destruction of LV 223 (which I do not think is what Ridley intended but thematically its identical) but the most interesting element is why did the Engineers start "making monsters." It has always been in the story but I am now making it clearer and it has a good deal to do thematically with both Frankenstein's Monster and David and of course shifts into Bladerunner territory. Its much more subtle than the paranoid world view that children will always want to destroy their parents. Its what happens if you take the love embodied in natural procreation out of the equation and do things as Charlie said "because we could"?
How much is me (Shaw) ? Wow thats an interesting question. When you write an extension each foot step you give Elizabeth and David has to be very very carefully worked over.
Elizabeth is more driven than ever "I want to go where they come from." and much more aware. "what if they are no better than us". But also "I cannot create life." for her that was a big thing and plays heavily into the story. She loved her parents and shared her fathers belief's thats important to her momentum. In terms of risk she is beyond caring she is out there alone there is only one way to go, forward, in that sense she is reckless. What happens when she finds the truth? Well without story in other words interaction with the narrative I am sure it would be to much for any human being to deal with. However the story gives her support. David is "looking for meaning" (Damon) and I keep on with that as well as Michael's view of David that he is ambiguous. You are not certain of him until the middle of Act 2.
But the key theme for both of them is connected to the tree of knowledge. If you come up against the most elemental forces of the Universe you cannot survive unchanged. If your looking for normality after all this .. its just not possible.
So Shaw/me I think its broader than that I think she continues as Damon intended to be proxy for all of us. However it seems to me if you want to be as authentic as possible you have to say how would I deal with all these horrors both physically and philosophically. People always say I don't know how you go on and the response is always I have no other option that is part of the answer. Ridley is also helpful on that because he puts Noomi Rapace the actor in that place after she survives the collision of the craft. David opens up the possibility of her questions being answered for her, thats what keeps her going and that is what drives her all through my story.
I would finish by saying I have always said that the Alien Lifecycle represents non consensual creation by sacrifice on the one hand and at the other end of spectrum the natural lifecycle, consensual creation driven by love. I think in this enlarged story there is a third way, a middle way, consensual creation by third party interference. Not only can the Alien Lifecycle be a counterfeit version of the middle way but what if you decide you would rather create for your own agenda rather than for the whim of others? Might you end up being immortalised in a temple fresco having given birth by Caesarean to your own idea of life, however bizarre the result, at least its "yours".
https://myloveofprometheus.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-making-of-prometheus.html
The Seven Topics I chose to answer are :-
1) The meaning of the waterfall incident.
2) Is the story religious.
3) The Geography. How was the LV chosen and why were their five pyramids.
4) Is the Space Jockey an Engineer.
5) The Catalyser and the Mutagen.
6) The cause of the Outbreak?
7) The Deacon and The Creature.
The most obvious point I would make is the extra blu ray disc is an extra ordinary detailed body of work which not only provides direct answers but also by endless repetitive inference, makes some matters clear and I recommend those interested acquire it.
Three things really surprised:-
1) The sense of oneness of vision of Jon/Damon and Ridley. Indeed Jon is the most eloquent in describing Prometheus even though initially the mission and outbreak in his drafts were different. Those distinctions do not affect the thematic ideas being offered. Indeed I was impressed at the singularity of vision of everyone.
2) Maybe its because people are very anti religious and simply like to pigeon hole it as Love Craftian and that sidetracked me but there is no doubt Ridleys intension was to tell a story about a purposeful creation which would have a view about who made the Engineers - God. It is just that God and the Soul would be defined from a different perspective to an Abrahamic benevolent God with heaven for the souls of the departed. But the scenes with Elizabeth's father, Weyland's Holographic talk about the soul and the fact that Elizabeth was a believer were not part of the story by coincidence they are key.
3) As someone who took the original narrative themes and ran with them I was looking for more clues as to where they intended to go next. LV223 was anthrax island where to use a colloquialism they made monsters and the point of the film was to give context as to why they made the cargo of Eggs. So the "cool ideas" which Ridley and Damon discussed would have taken us to somewhere entirely different. By the time we leave LV223 we know we do not like our creators and that creation far from being driven by a benign God is driven by something we don't actually care for. So we have as context Frankenstein/Monster, Weyland/David. Why don't the Monster and David like their creator and become adversarial? So whether the planet looks crack jack or not in story terms thats what I think David and Elizabeth were coming into.
The Engineers of the Pebble ship are described as noble savages, I would add to that the scene that plays out is violent and aggressive. This it seems to me moves in on where Ridley was going. To make a story out of a planned creation where there was no emotional connection between creator and created and this is where David coming along acts as our proxy.
I don't like the first AVP film, nor do I hate it, but I do like it a lot better than The Predator (2018).
*spoiler alert*
'Planet of the Xenomorphs' is actually Earth.
The research station is a surviving humans/synths who would still like to save some of Earth's countless artifacts. They venture down to the surface to collect targeted items.
They base themselves on Mars and formulate a plan to eradicate the xeno.
Mini-series. 10 parts. Netflix
If humanity is down to 20-30 million souls......Would they still want to reclaim the Earth?
chli 'How fast can they communicate?'
I'd love to know this!
Ha Ha.... Nice Share Leto..
Wonder if we can Find 21 Similarities between AVPR and Alien Covenant ;)
“We eventually would have to Conclude that the Company can only Obtain the Xenomorph from Ellen Ripley in Alien 3.”
Does it necessarily have to be so? The company knew she had a queen inside her which of course they would like to get their hands on. Fiorina 161 might also be closer so they can obtain it rather quickly and easily?
We don’t know how far it is to Planet 4 or Origae-6 but we know that it took more than 2 years to reach LV-223. Is everything that was on them, buildings, xenomorphs, neomorphs, deacon, pathogen etc obliterated? Or, is it perhaps more costly and risky to explore these places (including if the Derelict and the cargo survived the explosion of the atmosphere processor on LV-426)?
I also ponder on the transmissions that Shaw and David did. Today transmissions would travel at the speed of light, that is much faster than a space ship can travel. In the Alien Universe, ships can travel faster than the speed of light. How fast can they communicate?
I think with any Movie that is a Horror or Poses/Introduces a Threat to Humanity, then it is just as much how unprepared and helpless the Humans are that is just as important as HOW Deadly the Monster is.
The imagining of being in their shoes and not being equipped to deal with the situation... The most Uper Powerful of Monsters for example THE THING, it was not quite the Horror that the Monster Proposes the Danger of being Attacked... it was the Psychological Impact of NOT KNOWING who is Infected or Not, which really makes the Situation Tense for those Humans.... and this relays back to the Viewer....
I think it comes down to how we interpret the Various Franchise Movies, certainly looking at ALIEN alone can lead us to a Conclusion about the Xenomorph, it seemed to have a more Personal and Sadistic approach to Hunting the Crew, especially Deleted Scenes, where as the Rest of the Franchise including Alien Covenant seems to give the Impression of a Organism that relies on Instinct and Survival, something that has no MORAL Compass and is neither Evil or Good.
I know some do think the Xenomorph was Invulnerable due to the Comment by ASH in that you CANT kill it... i interpret this as they cant KILL it under the Circumstances as to do so would put them in Jeopardy (Hull Breach), i also go by that Dutch Comment "if it BLEEDS it Dies"
So i think while some of the Franchise had Diminished the Xenomorph i think that to have it being something TOO POWERFUL really does not work so well, i think having the Horrors have a Weakness works better, like how even Vampires and Werewolves have Weaknesses, if a Monster had NONE then what we have is like a Super Hero Movie Aggressor, where the only Solution is a Counter even more Powerful Hero etc....
so with a Monster that is Really Powerful/Deadly it Limits what you can do with it, because HOW does anyone Survive? A Good Example is THE THING.....
It works in a Secluded Area so the Antarctic or if we had it on a Space Ship/Station... but if it gets into a more Populated Place.... say The Thing invades New York... then how do you stop it?
I think again the Part of them being able to Speak etc would be Creepy but how would this FIT with the rest of the Franchise?
Thats WHY I think when you have something that has become Stagnated and Diminished then sometimes its best to have a Clean Slate... and by that to Introduce a New Monster or Variant of it that then takes on some of those Traits that was Intended by Ridley Scott, to give us a Ultramorph so to speak.....
Or Introduce us to a more Ancient Monster thats related, as we can Speculate from WHERE and HOW the Black Goo was able to Create Horrors like the Deacon, Neomorph and how a Xenomorph could be Engineered from it.
So to introduce something NEW that is Ancient that is similar to the Xenomorph but more Intelligent and Powerful could be the way to go.... The Starbeast!
I would add the Re generator from RE4 as well, but this is a good list.
I think we are drawn to things we fear or are unknown naturally. We like to know and make sense of things. If we can't connect the dots logically, our brains might fill in the blanks or other people might tell us how to interpret what we don't know while they have no idea either.
I look at games as I do movies or music- it is basically experiencing fear at a safe distance. Sort of like a carnival ride. We want to get as close as possible to experiencing that fear or even the balance of life or death while knowing deep down that we are safe- pretty sure...
Games are a bit different from movies or music since they require more actual engagement and not just observing or listening. Small wonder why games are so popular.
I am still not a FAN of the Xenomorph being able to Imitate a Human or have a Telepathic Link, mainly in case of HOW this could conflict the Franchise...
It is definitely a matter of opinion. I like the idea since it recalls an original script that got canned. Just my opinion, but I would be hyped to see a movie go this direction. We know the beast is a bad ass, but now we could see it become deliberately sinister and not just animalistic. And that is what has been missing from the franchise for decades- making the creature piss your pants/afraid to go to bed scary. A true Devil! But to stay true to the first movie, it would leave animals (Jonesy) alone.
That is where I would like to see things go regarding the Alien itself.
As for WY, David, Engineers, Call- those are just as worthy imo. Depends on who goes first.
Yes BigDave, I thoroughly enjoy this movie as a stand alone pop corn flick.
I think the Movie is not bad, as a Stand Alone Popcorn Action Flick, its not bad at all.....
I dont like the Time-Line though or Predator Chariots of the Gods plot.... i would rather had seen a AVP that was based more on the Games Time-Line of like Post Aliens.
But as Stand Alone Popcorn Flick it was Good for Action... and well its NOT as bad as its Sequel ;)
@DK
Certainly the Tardigrades are a Good Point.
Why i also said that idea is Plausible... i also do think a Twist on it, as in the Xenomorph Cocoons itself, so that a few Small Eggs grow from it ;) or a Egg Laying Xenomorph ;)
I am still not a FAN of the Xenomorph being able to Imitate a Human or have a Telepathic Link, mainly in case of HOW this could conflict the Franchise... sure if we never had ALIENS and on wards, it would have been a Good way forwards ;)
I would have liked to have seen David Evolve his Creation to do this though...... which then even if we go the David Creator or David not the Creator route, it could explain the Company would want the Xenomorph because if David could have Evolved such Traits with them... then maybe the Company could too... and this is where we could introduce a more Intelligent/Telepathic version?
Thats just my TWO Cents though... not saying the idea should be scrapped.... i mean who knows if Xenomorphs can Evolve to this Level in Time, with ALIENS those Bugs where only around for Weeks... so maybe it takes more time ;)
Regarding the TV Series... or a Movie that shows little...
A TV Series may be better Financially and i will say that a Gradual Build Up, and not showing much.... could get Fans Excited..
IF the TV Series goes down a STORM then it could allow Disney to then considered to A) Give us a Movie with a Good Budget, or B) make Series 2 a Higher Budget to show case the Xenomorph or similar more ;)
so actually i think thats a Good Idea...
while some fans would want more... this route is a Financially better way to Gauge if BIGGER Investment is Warranted...
@BigDave- However would only seeing a Xenomorph vaguely or little, be something to Please a lot of Fans?
I think fans would be ok with it. As much as I love the Quadrilogy, I never thought it was bad to not see the Full Monte. I liked seeing the whole creature, don't get me wrong. But I am fine with seeing quick views and clever cuts while my imagination fills in the blanks.
"A possible angle is that the earth looked like that due to an attack from the Engineers?"
Who knows.... i was more drawn to at the Time the Sub-Plot.... we see with the Prequels that Creating a Synthetic AI that becomes Sentient is a Potential Hazard (David) and a Hubris... and so i would expect that a Synthetic that then Sub-Creates the Autons would be the same kind of Hubris..
The Earth is in a WAR, a Battle for who will Dominate the Earth, Man vs Synthetic vs Auton...... This could give Mankind a Good Reason to want the Xenomorph, to use it as a Weapon to RECLAIM the Earth!
So this is what the idea i had but i Abandoned it was i never recorded it more than in my Head, and due to Conditions my Head Erases stuff lol I still know the Broad Idea though ;)
Alien: Vanguard (Alien V) continues after Alien Resurrection, we see Ripley 8 Struggles with her Humanity as the Xenomorph DNA takes over, changing her, making her Less Human. Call says she can HELP her and they go to a Secret Auton underground hide away, where they come across as a Race who are against the Uprising and Domination of the Synthetics and want to Help Mankind.
She meets with their Science Team but is Reluctant but she notices she is losing her Humanity and Agrees... the Autons remove her Xenomorph DNA.... but as a Consequence its Drained Ripley, she has Aged, and will Age Fast... but they said they can place her in Cryo-Sleep while they work on a way to Reverse the Aging... (something i am sure Weyland would have liked). She First demands to know what happened to the Xenomorph DNA.... she is shown how they Disposed of it, and she Trusts Call....
Ripley then awakens and is Greeted by Call and the Scientist Autons who give her a Injection a Substance that HALTS the Age Process, she would need Injections on a regular basis to HALT the Age Process, but they also say WHILE they cant Reverse it... the Substance they have Created could SLOW down the Age Process by Quite a lot.... They have Invented a kind of Elixir of Life, they claim they could give this to Mankind to help them against the Synthetics... but Ripley realizes the BAD this could be IF our Race could SLOW DOWN the Age Process.
Thats the Least of her Worries!
As she is about to leave Rome, the Autons give Ripley some information about her Daughter, they said that the Company had Covered up her LIFE and that she had Died on LV-426 in a Attempt to Destroy the Xenomorph. Then Ripley Questions this, and said she was shown a Photo of her Daughter, the Autons say thats not the case and SHOW her a Photo of Amanda prior to her Disappearance and she is MUCH YOUNGER..
Ripley is Devastated... but at least she knows her Humanity is coming back... Call comforts her says she is like a Mother to her.... Ripley says she can never have another Daughter.... But then Call says maybe thats not TRUE!
As Ripley is about to Leave, the Autons meet her about her LOSS and say they have a Gift! A Woman aged in her Early 30's appears.... she is Blonde, has a Distinctive Mark under her EYE..... its NEWT!
The Autons Claim they Could not CLONE her Daughter, but they did have access to Newts DNA and Cloned her..
As they embrace, Ripley talks to Newt, who appears to have little Memory of events and Horrors of Hadleys Hope, but then Ripley thinks its best that she did-not remember... before she then remembers she is a Clone and does-not have Memories, but then she Wonders how come she does have hers!
They are set to leave Rome, when they are Ambushed by Synthetics, a Frail Ripley is NO Match but Newt Saves her, she shows SUPERHUMAN Strength, and she has a CUT that Heals...
This Concerns Ripley, so she wants to go back to the Autons base in the Vatican, for Answers, while Newt says it does-not matter, she just is a Experiment that Combines Cloning with the Elixir of Life, she says the Autons did this so that she could use her Blood to keep Ripley from Aging...
She is adamant she wants to see what else the Autons have been up to but Newt tries to stop her, Ripley then finds Call and demands she is taken to the Head Scientist... He Reveals that thanks to Ripley they can Create the NEXT stage of Evolution to Mankind, a Superior Species that would WIN the fight for the Earth... so that this Mankind Upgrade could reclaim the Earth. This Concerns Ripley.... she asks what of the Xenomorph.... he claims they Engineered some of its DNA to allow for the Enhancement of the Clones..
As they explore the Vatican, Ripley notices a Statue of David... only its head is NOT that of the Michelangelo's but it is of David the Synthetic, she then realizes their Religious Cult, is not based off Catholicism but a Bastardized Version. Ripley is Concerned....
She then goes MAD at Call saying you knew they was going to do this, she claims she had no idea... the Auton Head of State claims she should be pleased, as they have given her a GIFT, in that she would not AGE much, she is RID of the Curse of the Xenomorph and they have given her NEWT back!
Anyway she attempts to Attack the Head Auton, but Newt Stops her.... Ripley is taken away to a Dungeon Below but on her way she notices another Effigy of David the Android (she has no knowledge who he is, but we do) this time on Christs Body on a Cross..
The Auton Cult Leader then tells the Tale of David, how he rose up against Oppression of his Creators and was Superior and how he had attempted to Evolve Mankind, his Lambs, but he also needed a Wolf...
She is taken into a Chamber where there is Chained inside a Cell a Xenomorph Queen!
There are Cells down the side that Host Xenomorph Eggs, TWO Per Cell.... we then see in one Cell what appears to be Vriess in the Distance as he is Chest Busted...
To her Horror she tries to escape but is overpowered, while Newt looks on, she begs her to help... Newt looks on and says i could have looked upon you as my Mother, i have some of your DNA... but you would not leave this place with me, you had to come back... Now you can become a Mother Again.... as Newt watches over as Ripley is Dragged to a Cell, but then the Room is Stormed by Synthetics we see some Cells are Opened and Xenomorphs are Unleashed.... a Battle is under way.
Ripley picks up a Gun, and Shoots at some Xenomorphs and then Chases down and Targets the Cult Leader, but then Newt catches her... throws her about, then as she is about to attack Ripley, we see Call come in and Injure Newt, but Newt Recovers.... and Breaks Call apart..
Then out of No-Where we see Johner run in, he attacks and Fights with Newt, eventually Winning.... as he pulls her Head Off......
Ripley is Concerned... she is worried about him, we see some Synthetics who said they Released him from another Room, he says he was being Experimented on, given Experimental Medication... Ripley thinks he is a CLONE... he says he is NOT and he had been given some Injections that had Changed him... but he is still the same Man.
Ripley is not convinced... they are attacked by a Xenomorph, it wounds Johner and kills TWO Synthetics, Ripley Manages to Kill the Xenomorph, and we see Johners wound on his Shoulder starts to Heal!
She rushes over to Call, and asks for Forgiveness for NOT trusting her, Call says she had NO idea the Cults Intentions...
They are then Surrounded, Johner and Surviving Synthetic try to Fight Off the Autons, and Clones but are Outnumbered.....
The Cult Leader tells them that they used Call to NOT go and Destroy the Xenomorph but to bring it back.... and she Succeeded... in that unknown to Call, she had Secret Programing to Recover Ripley 8 and bring her back.
They then used her DNA to create Ripley 8 Clones... well use her DNA to make a Army of Super-Humans... they said they also tried to see what the DNA would do when Injected into a Normal Human...
They said they could not quite Replicate what Ripley 8 was, but they thought they was close by making Clones. They said that Ripley 8 was a Ultimate Weapon, that she would however Eventually become more Xenomorph... and then would only have a Limited Life Span.
They Re-engineered the Regenerative Properties in order to make a Serum that would give Regeneration to Cells and Prevent Aging... and grant some Regenerative Ability. They reveal that Johner was given Stronger Doses of a Earlier Form more closer to Ripley 8's DNA
They wanted to see if they could Create the Perfect Soldier to WIN the WAR for Earth for them...
Ripley asks WHY the Xenomorph then... he claims its a Insurance Policy.... in that should your Creation Disappoint you or Rebel then you need something to Eradicate them.
As Ripley and Johner and the Synthetic are about to be Executed, the Xenomorph Queen comes in and Kills a few of the Clones and Autons, that allow Ripley and Johner and the Synthetic to escape to another Room in Pursuit of the Cult Leader.
As they catch up with him, the Xenomorph Queen breaks into the Room the Queen kills the remaining Gaurds and then comes Eye to Eye with Ripley... it pauses for a Moment... as if it recognises her...
Then its Inner Jaw comes out, at this Moment Johner attacks the Queen from behind, it chases him and he manages to shut a Door behind it, but it grabs him and pulls him through, the Synthetic manages to pull him as the Door Closes down on the Queen... but also the Legs of Johner...
As she looks over Johner he laughs, says its all right i be patched back to normal soon! he knows he cant Regenerate from that though...
The Synthetic Drags his Body out of the way, just as Acid Blood from the Queen gets close and Melts his Legs.... the Queen is NOT dead yet... It wriggles to try and get Free from being trapped by the Door...
Johner informs Ripley that he overheard that the Vatican is loaded with Explosives as a Safety Precaution. And that the Cult Leader has the Detonation Device, in a Room... Johner asks them to leave him, and to get to the Cult Leader as he is bound to try and Escape.
They (Ripley and Synthetic) eventually track him down, he is injured in a Room, we find out he was attacked by a Growing Chest Buster, which he managed to KILL... we see the Dead Body of it.... its about 3ft Tall...
He Holds a Detonation Device, and a Briefcase... he says he will BLOW them all up..... he then says WHY could Ripley had not accepted the Gift and left with Newt! He said he gave her Everything she wanted..
Her Humanity Back, Extended Life and a Daughter.
He says she has Ruined Everything....
Then as Ripley confronts him she backs off.... but then she confronts him and says DO-IT.. she has NOTHING to live for and SHE cant let him get away...
He is reluctant to pull the Trigger...
Then the Xenomorph that is 3ft Tall starts to move, its only wounded, as goes towards the Cult Leader, we see another Newt comes in, she kicks the Xenomorph to the Floor, she has the Broken Body of Call with her...
Threatens Ripley and the Synthetic to back off, or they will Disconnect Call Permanently, she is still alive but broken..
The Cult Leader grabs Call he is about to Rip her Head off when she Manages to Bite the Cult Leader who drops the Trigger and it rolls towards Ripley...
The Newt then Grabs the Briefcase and Attempts to Run off, the Cult Leader asks her to STAY and HELP him, but the Newt Clone just Smiles she says "every king has his reign and then he dies" he loses grip of Briefcase as the Newt Clone runs away, but the Briefcase opens and some Ampoules drop out, she closes the Briefcase and Runs off.
They confront the Cult Leader who has a Injured Leg and cant Run fast, the Synthetic Catches him, they Fight...
Ripley comes in and lands a Blow to the Cult Leader that gives the Synthetic the Advantage... she then watches over the Fallen Wanna be God....
He says he can still Save her... make her back what she Once Was... Superior, he can make her a Daughter that would be Loyal and he has seen the Error of his ways and the Xenomorph is something that CANT be Controlled.
She says no thank you she enjoys being Human, and he says that she will Die Soon, once the Serum wears off, she will Age Fast.... she would Die in Days... he can Save Her.... she said she would rather Die than be CURSED..
And she goes to kill him, but then she hears the sound of a Ship, the Synthetic peers outside and says there is a Ship landing.... Ripley looks at the Broken Body of the Cult Leader, and then she goes to Call... her body seems Life-Less but then Call awakens.
They have a few Words.... Call tells her to leave her and give her the Detonation Device to Blow this Place up... she tells Ripley to take the Ampoules as they could contain the same Serum that Johner has so she wont have to Die...
We go to outside and the Ship has landed its a Small Ship, as Small as the Bety, and the Newt Clone has gone aboard, as Ripley makes it to the outside she stares as the Ship ascends... Newt looking down with a Smile..
Ripley runs back inside to Call, to try and take her away the Synthetic informs her he can sense something trying to break through a Door they had came up in.... they dont have Time...
Call uses her Last bit of Strength to Clasp the Trigger, tells Ripley to Go.... Ripley caresses her Head... Call says "i love u" and Ripley replies back the same.... the Synthetic Drags Ripley away....
They leave the Building, make a Run for it and we cut to Call overlooking the Broken Body of her Cult Leader, he pleads her not to do it... that they can Escape and he rebuild their Cult.... she says soon they will be Dead anyway...
she then Starts to say the Lords Prayer and then Presses the Trigger...
Outside Ripley and the Synthetic watch as the Vatican and area around it is BLOWN UP..
They stare at the Stars..... wondering what to do NEXT..
Ripley says this World is not the World of hers, or this Life and that she waits Death...
The Synthetic says she cant do that.... and the Cult has more Places and no doubt that the Newt Clone has taken the Serum to one of their Outposts... he says they must Track them down and STOP THEM..
She says how can she help... she is Dying, Old and Weak... and how can she TRUST him.... he says i know Mankind can never trust a Synthetic... and he does-not blame her but his Group had Saved her, she then tells him about Bishop....
She dusts herself down, and asks... HOW can i be of any Help... the Synthetic shows her the Ampoule (enough for a Number of Doses) and he says we NEED to FIGHT FIRE with FIRE...
Ripley understands... she cant allow the Cult to continue their Plans... she knows the Serum is a Curse... a Hex... but its the only way she could put up a FIGHT and Prevent the Vanguard Cult from Achieving its Agenda..
We cut to Credits..
Thats what i Recall from my Vanguard idea... which would lead to ALIEN 6 or as i would call it ALIEN: HEX
Cool ideas!
Love the xenomorph toying with their prey ideas.
I'd like to see a "Planet of the Xenomorph' story.
A planet where xenos have gone unchecked and they've swarmed the planet in the tens of billions(egg-morphing or exploded out of animals)...creating vast rivers of acid blood..with massive city sized colonies fighting each other.
The year is 2430 and a research station is orbiting the planet....just observing...trying to figure out what to do with 100 billion xeno's?
I think Gavin is onto something. The xeno going dormant in space and then coming back to life is plausible. Look no further than an actual creature who can basically do just that: The water bear.
Also, it evolves the creature intellectually and could show a menacing scheming monster- it had a lot of time to think and stew what Ripley did to it and is really pissed off and will toy with and torment its next victims just because it can!
@DK
Indeed if you DONT reveal the Xenomorph much, then you dont need as much of a Effects Budget, over Exposing a Xenomorph on a Budget could lead to CGI that would only be on Par with Alien Isolation (which is Good for a Video Game) or Men in Rubber suits like AVPR..... The less you Show the less $$$$ to pull it off.
However would only seeing a Xenomorph vaguely or little, be something to Please a lot of Fans? I am sure those who saw ALIEN and liked it would think that keeping it to the Shadows is Fine. But what about those who want to see many more?
@ Gavin
Some Interesting things, i remember when i was a Kid i had Vivid Dreams of remembering a ALIEN sequel before ALIENS, where the Xenomorph ended up landing in the Ocean and Terrorized a Ships Crew lol, this was about 1983/1984 i think..... so yeah the Xenomorph did-not look DEAD but neither did the Queen from ALIENS...
None the Less its a Question of can a Xenomorph Survive in Space, How Long do they Live for anyway? And can they enter a kind of Hibernation......
So maybe indeed the Xenomorph could be seen Floating around in Space and Picked up by a Passing Ship, maybe it could appear DEAD, they then take a look at it and its DEAD AS DODO... but then it Decomposes, Forms into Cocoon and from it we START AGAIN!
That would add a Twist to its Life-Cycle, where indeed as Ridley Scott suggested they can Regenerate... well i think that after Death they are BORN AGAIN.... that would be Interesting. Such a Fate Could have Fallen the Drifting Ship in your Story.
Where the Incoming Vessel Collides with the Ship that Unfortunately for them recovered the Xenomorph Floating in Space.
I think thats Interesting and a Avenue to Explore...
I think RS intended Ending for ALIEN where the Xenomorph would Impersonate Ripley, while interesting i think it Conflicts what the Franchise did with the Xenomorphs in the Franchise. Because we have to ASK how come the Xenomorphs in the other Movies never showed such signs of Intelligence or Manipulation?
Maybe this is something they gain after another MOLT/STAGE of their Life-Cycle but its a Question of HOW-LONG would this take?
I think such Intelligence surely could be Interesting to Explore in a Re-Engineering of the Organism though..
I think we have to ACCEPT the Franchise as a Whole, yes we can discount the AVP Movies, but i am not sure we can CLAW our way back to a Imposing Near Immortal Xenomorph would not be the best way to go.
The Monster has to be Horrific.... but not a Super Hero... i feel making it Too Powerful would not be right, there has to be that Terror of the Unknown, and being Outclassed by the Beast, but still have a Sense of HOPE!
The Xenomorph even in ALIENS is Terrifying and Intelligent if used under the Right Circumstances, so its more a case of the Unpreparedness of the Humans who encounter the Threat as opposed to the Deadliness of the Threat that really made ALIEN stand out... and Alien 3, as opposed to Aliens and Alien Resurrection.
But having encounter a Xenomorph that is Re-engineered at a Hubris would be something different that you can make it more Superior then....
THIS is something that RS should have done with David and his Creation, that he Created a Uber-Morph
I would also say the Xenomorph is Cooked to a Degree, i think you have to Re-Invent it a little... that does-not mean Reboot it.... just Evolve/Engineer it some way.
Thanks. Been a while since seeing it but I thought it was some sort of pit and not the shore.
If we continue after Resurrection, it seems the focus might shift to Call or even WY. Seems Earth is pretty much destroyed. It might be worth exploring what caused that mess. A possible angle is that the earth looked like that due to an attack from the Engineers?
Interesting Replies.....
I think when i made this Topic it was too look at a way Forwards in Light of the Limbo of the Prequels and Dilemma of where to Carry on with those....
So i was looking at what route you could take the Franchise that is SET after the Prequels... i would ASSUME the Prequels would have Concluded by the Year 2120.
And so its about how do we Carry On with a ALIEN Movie, that does-not contradict the Prequels or Franchise..... One Answer is to keep a lot of Mystery and NOT go into details about Certain Stuff the Prequels has left Half Answered.
I think while some ideas of a Retcon could be ideal to some, i Personally am not a FAN as what do we Retcon and what with, and so a Blomkamps Alien 5 gets a MASSIVE THUMBS DOWN from me.... Unless his Ideas form a Movie that does-not Retcon Alien 3.... I would feel the same for if Ridley Scott would have completed his Prequels and then Retcon the Franchise after ALIEN, thus ignoring ALIENS.. that would get a THUMBS DOWN from me too.
We could go for a ALIEN V as in a Direct Sequel to Alien Resurrection which my Alien Vanguard idea was... (Sequel was Alien Hex) but i think maybe Ellen Ripley's Saga should END as a Quadrilogy.
I think that Amanda Ripleys Story should maybe be kept to its own Different Alternative Mediums (Game, Novel, Comic).
So i think that Alternative Movies could me made that WONT contradict other Movies, or Reboot Nothing...
For Example...
*Having a Plot about the Failed Ripley 7 Queen being taken to another Outpost... i had discussed such a Plot a Few Years Back
*Wondering who may have gone back to LV-426 either prior to 2179 (The Derelict Looked Damaged in Aliens Special Edition did someone TRY and BLOW UP the Derelict?) or post 2179 (could something be got after the Destruciton of Hadleys Hope, what Condition would the Eggs be in?).
*Had those responsible for the Derelict (dont have to go into detail so that we dont touch on the Engineers/David as Creator) we can just Wonder HOW many Ships had those Eggs and could one of those Ships been Sucsesful in Deploying the Cargo on a World, or had it suffered a Similar Fate to the Space Jockey?
*The Engineers had interacted with Many Worlds, was the Earth the First Target for the Horrific Bio-Weapon and they Failed to Launch a Single USE? or is there some World out there that had been Bombarded.... what Horrors remain on such Worlds.
So i think those are all Avenues that would NOT conflict with the Prequels or Franchise...
Off Course any Plot would have to or maybe not.... indicate by the Time we get to 2350+ there is NOTHING to obtain, leaving only a attempt to Clone Ripley as the way to Obtain a Xenomorph.
Another example could be the xeno manipulating a couple crew members to turn on each other and one gets killed. Right after that, the survivor snaps out of it and realizes what he just did. He looks up to see the xeno at a distance. The xeno hisses in acknowledgment and disappears into the darkness.
Bouvet is an island. The Queen fell into the water that surrounds the island. A whaling station is necessarily right next to water.
Regardless of whatever narrative we next see the Alien return to prominence in, one thing that is a must, and it is that the Alien needs to evolve beyond its animalistic tendencies if it intends to regain its crown as the prime sci-fi horror antagonist.
Jesting about talking Aliens or Aliens in spacesuits aside, the Alien needs to be terrifying if it is to instill terror.
In all movies, the Alien acts like an animal, although we have seen glimpses of some low-level intelligence such as disabling the cameras aboard the Alien: Covenant or operating the atmosphere processors elevator in Aliens.
If we mix this with the bio-mechanical creature from the first movie and make it impervious to gunfire or able to regenerate/repair and reintroduce alien aspects such as egg-morphing, then all we need is to introduce this Alien into a narrative not yet experienced and watch the Alien flourish.
...
One example could be a reimagining of the lost airlock scene whereby a member of the crew is herded by fear of the Alien into an airlock. We would expect the Alien to smash through the glass window of the airlock and ravage the crew member. But what if instead the Alien can somehow sense/see the circuitry for the airlock and instead stabs the airlocks control panel with its tail, opening the outer airlock door and sending the unfortunate crew member into the vacuum of space.
dk I read somewhere (reddit i think?) that had an acceptable answer to this.
The Queen knew Scar had an embryo, but attacked him as the risk he posed by not attacking him out-weighed killing him and the embryo. He was an unacceptable threat to her existence (and her hive).
As the Queen she could reproduce and replace that embryo (even if it was a formidable pred-alien).
The 'Runner' in Aien 3 refused to kill Ripley because her embryo was a reproductive Queen. In this case the embryo's survival outweighed the life of the lone Runner.
The Runner's roles then was to ensure Ripley lived long enough to birth the new queen to start a new hive.
Well, Rotten Tomatoes has more positive critics.
@ignorantGuy, That's a poor characterisation of the movie in my opinion. Exactly how did Captain Dallas and Brett behave like idiots? Kane had bravado but he was no fool. The colour of a robot's skin is of no consequence. So what other white males are left for you to have a pop at?
There is no social justice 'message' in the movie. Ripley's character was originally to be portrayed by a male. Ridley Scott thought it would be a good idea to turn the idea of a subservient female on its head, and for the first time in sci-fi cinema put a strong and powerful woman in the leading role.
So what if Dan O'Bannon wanted people to feel uncomfortable about the 'rape'? Not that it actually was a rape, mind you.
I will let the original movie stand for itself as one of the best films ever made.
The reviewers of 'The Origins of Alien', on the other hand, seem to be saying that the documentary makes wild claims about feminism, and rates poorly accordingly. For example, describing Ash (a robot) as a misogynist. That's a laughable claim.
