New Replies (Page 205)

Its been said before, but Indeed depending what you take into account for Clues, for someone who only sees the Movie and Discounts everything else, and who does-not look (pause etc) in depth David's Workshop, then you could come to Conclude its NOT in anyway Concrete that David had Created the Xenomorph, or to a lesser degree that he Maybe created the One in Alien Covenant but it is Different to the Original One from the Franchise.

If you add the Novel into the Equation then you would clearly be lead to Conclude the Xenomorph was just Discovered by David.

If you instead look at the Drafts then they indicate that David had Created the Xenomorph (Protomorph) via Cross Breeding, Experimentation with the Neomorph Motes and their Egg Sacks.

If you looked at the Workshop as in his Notes (which you could NOT clearly see or be able to read in the Movie) then these seem to Indicate he had Re-Engineered the Neomorph, and using the Black Goo to Cross Hybrid various Traits from Various Organisms to Perfect and Engineer the Xenomorph.

Then we have to Consider Ridley Scott who Confirms that David as the Creator of what Eventually becomes the Xenomorph in ALIEN.

Personally i think it was a MISTAKE... and they could have had him Create something very Similar but more different than the Alien Covenant Xenomorph looked...

We still have the Pathogen that was NOT created by David, and so we can Speculate WHY it appeared to Create Organisms that are Similar to the Xenomorph to a degree.... there is the Potential of other Xenomorph/Neomorph/Deacon like Monsters that could be Created or had been Created in the Past.

But indeed IF we dont look into other Details like Davids Workshop Notes, or what anyone on Production has said, and the Drafts....   Then it could be OPEN for the Xenomorph in AC to be something Different, and the Pathogen has a Natural Evolutionary Tree... where over Time the Organisms Created from the Pathogen will Eventually Evolve to the Xenomorph Form.

Its only when taking into Account the Advent, and Davids Workshop Notes, that its indicated the Xenomorph he Created had NOT just appeared to be Similar by Coincidence or Natural Evolution of the Pathogen, but that he had Specifically taken Traits from Various Organisms to Create the Xenomorph and thus it is a Mixture of Different Organisms he had encountered on Planet 4 that are Crossed Hybridized with Neomorph and Black Goo.

In CLOSING.....

I think while its a Disappointment, it does FIT well with the Creation Arc and Themes and Hubris of Sub Creation...

But they should have known that Potentially having the Xenomorph as a Creation of David would be something that would FAR more upset Fans than the Not-So 15ft Space Jockey Engineers...

I have said it before.... maybe while we have to Accept in the End that David had Kick-started the Xenomorph Creation, what we have is NOT the FINAL Product..

He had Created his Proto-Morph from the Engineers Pathogen... NO PATHOGEN... and NO David Xenomorph!

At some point the Engineers in Prometheus seemed to be pretty Interested in Experiments with the Pathogen and had Encountered/Created other Organisms from this..

SHOULD any Engineers or a Race above them who had a Admiration for that work the Engineers had Carried out on LV-223, should they come across Davids Creation... they could be IMPRESSED.... but see there is ROOM for Improvement..

And they then Re-Engineer his Creation to get us to what we have in ALIEN.   This would again FIT the overall Arc of Creation and would lead to the Space Jockeys Hubris..

The only DOWN-SIDE is the Xenomorph Eggs and Derelict would NOT had been on LV-426 for a LONG-TIME... but at least David is only the Middle-Man in the Xenomorph Creation.

How do we get to the Ancient Derelict?  I think having LV-223 become Destroyed that Causes a Tear in  Space/Time that sends the Ship back Thousands of Years could be a ANSWER... it also explains WHY after the Prequels the Company would Pursue the Derelict and Ripley and NOT go to LV-223.

It is Destroyed.... but such a idea would cause a Paradox, as the Derelict would be Cast Back in Time and be on LV-426 while the Engineers are Conducting their Experiments on LV-223.

So its a MESS really... to continue with the Route they had shown would NOT make Fans happy, to go and Undo it and show the Xenomorph was Ancient and on LV-426 for Thousands of Years and NOT created by David could just make a Mockery of the Prequels... and Contradictions... unless we throw everything shown out!  

Because then HOW do they or do they NOT explain how by Coincidence that David had Created something similar....... Unless he Discovered a Blue-Print/How too Guide in the Engineers City, but then WHY would he try and Experiment and Waste a lot of time with other Creations/Experiments if he had the GUIDE to Create a Xenomorph?

Thats NOT to say they cant go this Route... they could, its just then i hope they give Good Reasons for WHY he had gone about with Experimenting on other stuff.

@BigDave: Re: Lovecraftian touches, even without Giger's direct input into Prometheus this latter prequel is effectively a space-version of At the Mountains of Madness.  Both start with expeditions to inhospitable, isolated environments and are both unknown in their construction, both teams composed of mostly scientists and even with similar equipment, the land transports similar to planes and the ATVs dog sleds. Both start with geological discoveries, and from there alien bases/ruins and preserved alien specimens, and couldn't the black goo be considered analogous to a shoggoth (while different it serves the same purpose)? Then you have investigations cut short by a silica storm and blizzard respectively.  There are many more comparisons to draw on...

"Regarding the Female Synthetic... sure there would be Female Synthetics... and i kind of get where your GOING ;)"

Great minds think alike!    Just hope we don't have to use ours and RS get a move on!!

"The neomorphs are created by the pathogen alone (taking over puff spores)and human hosts"

I think the audience understanding is: A xenomorph is Davids version of the neomorphs?       That's what I surmised from friends and family. 

Anyone know RS's phone number?

BigDave

Yes, the excerps from the old drafts points to David as the creator. However, the pathogen had already produced small eggs by itself (which David perfected). The neomorphs are created by the pathogen alone (taking over puff spores) and human hosts. Even if David turns the eggs into xeno-eggs, it doesn't mean that it hasn't been done before.

Note also that neither Shaw nor Engineers seem to have been part of the process . . .

So, the pathogen seems to be programmed into creating xenomorphs . . .

BigDave

But I feel that the Elders are part of the hubris. Apotheosis is a rebellion against the real god (like lucifer’s rebellion). The pharao became a god. The Roman emperor became a god (and of old rulers were kings of gods grace, that is, almost like gods). They considered themselves elevated to the level of a god. Sir Peter Weyland says: “We are the gods now”. That is hubris, and for this, they are punished (nemesis).

I also think that RS (and Hawking) are perhaps too dystopic in their view of AI. RS seems to be stuck on the subject since he constantly returns to it (Bladerunner etc). Having AI as a god (which you propose), wouldn’t that be the height of hubris - or nemesis? :)

@Michelle Johnston

"I think you have got to give the fans something new and you’ve got to maybe sort of upset them a little bit or take that risk." Michael Fassbender.  -  now that is the understatement of the month....

Even in the recent days a saw a Youtuber saying it was the franchise killer, spreading the misconceptions for fun and profit.

Certainly we could consider WHY the Pilot/Bio-Hazard Suits look the way they do...

For the Most Part they are just Space/Bio-Hazard Suits, its only really the Rib-Cage Area and the Helmet that have a Resemblance to a Organism. (more so in ALIEN).

The Rib-cage is something we can maybe Overlook, but then we have to ASK about WHY does the Helmet look like it does when they could have used other Designs.

So we could Wonder if they BASED its appearance off some kind of Organism or something else.

There are some HP Lovercraft touches to the Franchise for sure, especially some Concepts... (Starbeast) and Prometheus had some inspirations from a Plot that has some similarities to At the Mountains of Madness to the Trilobite (especially Concepts).

The Engineer/Space Jockey Suits Helmet does have a bit of a Cthulhu look to them.... especially if you look at the Prometheus Masks....

Remove the Tentacles and Replace them with some Mouth that a Mask Attaches to, or Replace them for a Snout/Trunk and then YES you could see the Similarity to the Space Jockey/Engineers Helmets.

Should we introduce another Species that is more like a Cthulhu? or something else thats NOT Human looking?

Maybe...  something the Engineers had Stole from or Re-Engineered from?  Something the Engineers where Created by or Enslaved by?

Maybe...

I Certainly think many fans are Disappointed the Revelation of that Enigma that was the Space Jockey Race, became something VERY HUMAN even if we accept it was a Space Suit, the Occupants looked a FAR Cry from what Fans expected.

Regarding Azathoth then while i am No Expert (on HP Lovecraft), we can see some similarities of a Fallen God, a Banished God that Echo's Lucifer to a degree...  I think LOOSELY then YES they could use Influences from HP Lovecraft, but i dont think RS would have been going too LITERAL though.

Regarding the Queen, if we Continue with the David as the Creator Plot, then Eventually that would mean the Queen in ALIEN is a Byproduct of Davids Experiments, either a Engineered Result or a case of Evolution of the Organism itself.

David had said he has yet to PERFECT his Queen, i think some Interpet this as he would be going to Create the Xenomorph Queen we see from the Franchise.

I am not sure RS would be taking us the route to Carbon Copy the ideas of James Cameron and so the QUEEN would be different to what we are used to.. so by Queen then David is just looking for a more Efficient way to Obtain more Eggs.

Not long back we had Ridley Scott talk about the Future of the Franchise where you could EVOLVE the Beast and Explore Different kinds of Reproduction.   So its likely we Eventually would have seen Different Variants of the Organism with Different ways to Procreate.

Regarding the Female Synthetic... sure there would be Female Synthetics... and i kind of get where your GOING ;)

In my ideas for a Alien Covenant 2 and 3 i was to introduce a Female Synthetic Construct who becomes a Love Interest to David as she is Easier to Persuade to Join Him compared to Walter who Refused!   So we have a bit of David acting like Lucifer/Serpent and this Synthetic being like Eve!

I was then left with TWO Ways this would END.. which was that the Engineers would Experiment with her to Create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph, or that she would Betray him and in Revenge he would create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph from her...

This is possible because as a Female Construct she is Part-Organic

Regarding Walter if he is Discovered and has a way he can try and get to David then i think it would be so he could SAVE... Daniels...

If this was ever to Happen and David is Stopped... and Walter Saves the Day...  A Good Twist could be that Walter then Tells Daniels he LOVES HER..

We would not have this like AC where we can be thinking did David do a Switch Again.. no it has to be Clear there is NO more switching and this Walter came from Planet 4.

But it would leave us to think... is that Walter on Planet 4 also a David?    Or is he 100% Walter but somehow his Programing has Changed... so now he has Emotions and so can Actually LOVE her..

Becoming more Human.. even though he could be Considered Good.... holds the Potential that Events Can Shape/Change what he would become...  a ROBOT can only ACT according to his Program... a Human can be Influenced by Many Factors.

A Theodicy about why the Gods are Furious.

When I wrote my straight line novel emerging out of Elizabeth's survival at the end of Prometheus I was anxious to create something unique and original but that was based on solid foundations.

I spent many weeks considering all the official material and IV's up until the point the movie was released before setting down my rule book and beginning. 

However I knew that a very substantial body of work existed which I did not have access to at the time "The Furious Gods :The Making Prometheus."

You can imagine, having tracked this material down through a friend who has been crucial to the development of the story, I was a little nervous when I slipped the Blu Ray in, would this material undermine my start point?

My first run through brought to the fore the whole gamut of emotions and I have decided to deal with all the key questions of the film, answer them and offer how I dealt with them in my work on my blog as a reference document.   

For the moment though some quotations from the first section.  

"What we knew in the first alien is just a tiny tributary of what’s actually going on." Michael Fassbender.

"To dare to talk about who made us and who made them." Ridley Scott

"I think you have got to give the fans something new and you’ve got to maybe sort of upset them a little bit or take that risk." Michael Fassbender. 

"You’ve wrung it dry." Ridley Scott on The Alien Franchise

"Not that it would have changed the story at all." on Using LV426 Steve Messing.

"There looking for Prometheus."

"The old man is on this mission to go and talk to Prometheus."

"The only way to dive into the story of the Space Jockey was they needed to be intrinsically linked to our beginning." On telling the story in a relatable way as opposed to giant comical elephantine beings.

"Our gods came not from the heavens but from the stars."

 All the above Jon Spaihts. 

"Arrogance to believe we are superlative, we maybe minor." Ridley Scott.

"That monster became a feature, a grace note of a much larger story." On how the Engineers grew as the story developed and the creature was a consequence of the Engineers actions.

"It was about humanity confronting the forces that had created it and maybe not liking them that much." 

Jon Spaights. 

Whilst the novel "Regained" is a psychological mystery as opposed to action horror, and therefore tells its story in a different way, having now considered the Furious Gods its clear the the notion that we would travel somewhere and have all our assumptions turned upside down and that we are on the edge of creation and on the wrong side was entirely correct.

As for the creature, and what it represents in general terms, I thought my idea was original, it turns out that Steve Messing was there before me.  

When I have constructed 7 questions and answers and my thoughts I will let those who read this thread know in case they are interested in what the people who made Prometheus were aiming to achieve.

What struck me forcibly about watching the documentary is the evolution of the film was very focused and very clear and Jon had as much sense of ownership and passion on the shift to Prometheus as anyone did. The idea that the film was developed in two distinct modular phases is not borne out by this documentary. It evolved naturally but certain shifts had more political implications than others in particular the naming of the film which evolved naturally through a series of small steps.   

It was always a march toward the Engineers and mankind's origins and then at a tactical level to what extent do we make the connection with the craft and its cargo. At the beginning it was literal at the end it was elliptical but the real point of the story was unchanged. What was the nature of our makers ?

Lindelof shifting the purpose of the mission to pursue Weyland's desire for more life personalised and focused that element of the story. 

Interview with the Director Alexandre O. Philippe

https://youtu.be/vc9B7Zwsu3w

Interview with Tom Skerrit

https://youtu.be/xZSBjXTy69A

Another trailer

https://youtu.be/POAt0joGTbI

In a way..You might say the Weyland company created the Xeno. David is their creation and he seems to be filled with many of the companies ideals? A little extreme perhaps.....but I don't think he would be fired(promoted?).....In fact..... Peter and the company would probably be very proud!

Also.......What will happen when David creates the Queen? If he could create a Queen..I don't think the audience would be too skeptical of the xenomorph creation? I mean Alien:Resurrection the company made a Queen that gives birth to the hybrid Newborn...I trust David (with Engineer data)to be on their level at least.

I'd start Covenant 2 with David working on the Queens structure/DNA/   or at least show him working on something sinister.  I don't think you could hide the fact..most fans are going to figure it out....So no big reveal at the end.

I'd also have David discover Walters female synth partner in stasis(not a crew member...so not active? or some other reason)

This gives David a love interest and a new outlook on things........and new way to create something.....

Also gives Walter(if alive) a reason to seek David and the Covenant.

@BigDave: While the suits of the Engineers on LV-223 are designed for space travel, its appearance also gives that of the exoskeleton of an insect, i.e. how their skeleton is worn on the outside. Given the "Alien" is effectively a giant alien bug, it would seem the suit was not just designed for the practical purposes of space travel but perhaps as a form of worship of this species "Beyond Good and Evil", a Lovecraftian Satan.  Lovecraft's gods were more Gnostic than Christian, the blind idiot god, Azathoth, at the top of the Hierarchy.  Xenomorphs are blind in that they have smooth heads without eyes, and are similarly mindless to the Daemon Sultan except for their urge to multiply. And recall the connection of flutes to Azathoth in The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath.  Are there more clues to Ridley's intent in these stories?

Thanks for the Share...

Really looking Forwards to this ;)

seems it may Tackle more than just ALIEN though, but other Ideas/Themes that RS had as far as Creation!

Sometimes it does make you WONDER... if we could go back to 1980.... and Wonder if RS was Free to then go and Create 2-3 Sequels to ALIEN... what those would have been LIKE....  maybe this Documentary could give us some Clues to maybe just that.

EDIT:

I wonder if Ridley Scott would have made some Interviews, Commentary on this Documentary after the Release of Alien Covenant?

With a Sequel in LIMBO... this would be Ideal for him to PLUG some of the ideas he has or had...

Then again any Interviews could just be regarding ALIEN and the Process of getting from Starbeast to Alien.. it would be a Interesting Watch none the less ;)

Certainly MonsterZero

I remember First Seeing those Set Photos and wondered had David and Dr Shaw arrived at Paradise to Find that it had been Bombarded Thousands of Years prior...

Thats before we got information on the David Bombardment Scene.

They do appear to be Desiccated/Mummified, this can Happen in Short Period under Certain Circumstances.

with the Space Jockey if we accept the Suit is Part Organic then the same thing could happen... HOWEVER.. a Flaw is that the Prometheus Engineer Suits do-not look as Aged, the Color is a Duller Grey and Less Glossy but they have not turned to a Bone Color...

So the Space Jockey looked Aged/Desiccated/Mummified for LONGER than those Dead Engineers on LV-223 who had been there for THOUSANDS of Years...

Will this Difference be Answered for WHY/HOW just like the Size Difference (never mind a slight Aesthetic Difference) or are they just OVERSIGHT!

Regarding the Creation of the Xenomorph, then yeah makes sense to be a Creation by a Humanoid...  The idea of introducing a None-Human Entity or Machine i think would be something as far as the HIGHER level of Creation something WAY WAY more Ancient.

Again i am DRAWN to look at David for the Answers... if those Prometheus Engineers (Certainly LV-223) are NOT the Originals and YET they look more Enhanced, more Stronger... SUPERIOR and they are YET made to Serve a Purpose and Serve the Agenda of those Planet 4 Engineers.

Then we can see that David is similar, in regards to compared to his Creators too...

Can those LV-223 Engineers Procreate?

Originally the Idea was the Engineers are a Species that had Augmented/Evolved themselves to the Point they LOST the Ability to Procreate....   Hence the Sacrificial Scene.

This Changed over time, and we see those Planet 4 Engineers have Females and can Procreate!

So if the LV-223 Engineers are a Superior Engineered Versions, then if they are Augmented by those Planet 4 Engineers, they are  then like the Replicants to those Planet 4 Engineers.

With the Replicants there are Reasons they would have been Given LIMITED Life Span and NOT intended to Procreate

If you Create a Superior being made to Serve and Perform Tasks so that you NO-LONGER have to (same as for why Synthetics are Created) then you WOULD-NOT want those beings to be able to Procreate themselves... if they DO and become Sentient and Rebelious then they Potentially would OVERTHROW their Creators

So if we look at the Enhanced Engineers in this way, then those Planet 4 Engineers would-not want them to be able to Procreate... so they could be Engineered as Sterile!

Imagine if thats TRUE.. and you was one of these Engineers and so you are Superior to your Creators, you are given Certain Tasks, made to Serve, yet you CANT Create...  only via Sacrificing Yourself.

What if there Purpose was to Sacrifice themselves to Seed Worlds, to then Further Evolve Worlds to have Humanoid Life at the Order of your Creators (Planet 4 Engineers) and these Creations from your Sacrifice can Procreate just like your Creators!

You are Created Superior to your Creator, you Can-Not Procreate, but are to Sacrifice to Create another In-Superior Species who can Procreate.

If you are viewed as Expendable by your Creators, and seen as just a TOOL needed to Create Humanoids in your Creators Image....  then if you become Unhappy, you dont see WHY you should Serve your In-Superior Creators...

Then it could become Pretty Frustrating that you CANT go and Procreate like them!

IF for some Reason you then came across something that Infected you, and your Species then BIRTHED a Organism that had Grown inside of you.... and this Organism appeared to have a LOT of Potential..

You could see THIS as a WAY you could Procreate Life, like your Creators... to be able to Grow inside NEW Life and Give Birth to something NEW..

For a Species who CANT  go and Procreate/Give Birth they could see this as a SIGN a their Destiny, they could then Worship and be Fascinated with this Parasitic Organism and then ATTEMPTED to Engineer and Perfect it.

These Experiments leading to attempt to Create Something you would DEEM as more Perfect than yourselves, NEVER-MIND your In-superior creators and the Humanoids they SEED.

Maybe you are Fascinated by this because this Creation is NOT Created in the image of your Creator... so those Engineers who are Superior could see being Created in the Imagine of their Creators (Planet 4 Engineers) and Humans as a MOCKERY!

Your Creation, something that allows you to Give Birth and Transcend to a More Superior Organism (In your Opinion) that is NOT made in the MOCKERY of your Creators could be Something to WORSHIP!

Once you have Perfected your Creation... maybe then you Sacrifice it with the Creation Tool, and then with the Results you can use this to EVOLVE all your Creators Efforts to something that YOUR Species had Created instead.

Simply Replace the Humanoid in the above Image with a Deacon...  and THIS is what i think those LV-223 Engineers had DONE!

This is only ONE theory i had years ago... it kind of Fits, more so since Alien Covenant came out.... but it has Flaws, but then i think its HARD to make a Flawless Theory/Answer to what is going on.

"why were the faces on their temples there more death-like?"

Ultimately because it looked Cool and Intimidating.

The Initial Concepts the Head was the Same as the ONE inside the Temple Complex.

It could be to show us that Over Time the Storms had Weathered the Human-like Face to a SKULL as a Representation of WHAT kind of Evil and Dark place this had became!

Or the Engineers on LV-223 had decided to Re-Carve the Head to become a SKULL to Represent Death? or they added the Skull Face to the Top of the Complexes at a Certain Time.

Or thats just how they was Constructed and Designed but then WHY... could it be used as a Warning.... Do-Not-Enter... otherwise it would lead to DEATH.

A Warning to WHO... i would suspect the Engineers maintain the Worlds they Seed so they CANT reach the Level of Technology to Visit these Places, they are NOT intended to be Visited by their Creations... UNLESS the Engineers take them their!

When it comes down to using us as Incubators... then a lot depends on WHAT does the Pathogen do, this is something that changes a little.....  WHY was it Created, and WHAT is the Connection with the Sacrificial Stuff?

That in itself was Ambiguous, we can Unlock Clues via looking at Alien Engineers/Genesis... but it seems NOW the Goo is just a Programmable McGuffin.

so much that NOW it can make you Wonder if the Prometheus Sacrifice Scene was a Engineer who was just trying to Spread the Pathogen and Horrors it Created and NOT to Seed Life to become Mankind etc.

Certainly thats why we cant be too Literal with Fallen Angel Remark.

At its Basis it simply Indicates that RS felt those Engineers (likely LV-223) to some degree had decided to Rebel Against their Intended Purpose, to Oppose the Ways/Rules of their Hierarchy/Creators

The other Flip-Side with Regards to Fallen Angel would be Demons, to maybe Indicate a State of Malevolence with those Engineers.   So Demons are seen as Purely Evil with the Intention to Corrupt all of Gods Creations... However Fallen Angel stems simply from Angels who decided they did-not want to have to SERVE God and his Ways/Rules.

so in Context to the Engineers in Question (depends if its the Whole Race or LV-223 kind) then Fallen/Demons could Fit, both as in they Rebelled, and then latter they become EVIL.

What is shown is the Engineers had came to Earth, they had Interacted with us, likely Created us, and Evolved us, and they had Taught us...

The Question then is.... was we Created by the Prometheus Kind or LV-223, if so was it Authorized by those on Planet 4 and the Hall of Heads Engineers?

If the Planet 4/Hall of Heads guys had Not Authorized our Creation, then this would be a FALLEN ACT.

If they had Authorized our Creation, then its a case of had they Authorized the Level of Knowledge being passed on to us, or had we been given Forbidden Knowledge by the Engineers who Visited us and this was a FALLEN ACT.

Was the Creation and Teaching both Authorized by the Hierarchy and those LV-223 Engineers are made to Serve those Engineers on Planet 4 but also MANKIND are seen in a Higher Regard to those Planet 4 Engineers than the LV-223 Engineers.... 

Those LV-223 Engineers could Rebel Against this, and then want to Destroy Mankind due to Jealousy and refusal to Serve their Masters for the Purpose of Ensuring our Survival and Advancement...  so they would see WHY should we be seen as Important to the Planet 4 Engineers, when those Tasked with Taking Care of us Feel they are Superior and should NOT Serve.

Those LV-223 Engineers could even had decided they would go against the Intentions, and manipulate Mankind to Accepting THEM as GODS... when they are NOT, they are just Servants to maybe SEED and Take Care of us. By the Order of their Hierarchy on Planet 4

But Mankind then becomes Rebellious and Start to do things that those LV-223 Engineers are Offended by.

It really is Ambiguous and could be ANY or NONE of those Reasons..

It simply has to be more than the Engineers are just EVIL and simply just want to Create EVIL things they need us to Procreate via acting as Hosts!

I do feel the Answers could be with David and his Journey and Story Arc which could be Mirroring those Fallen Engineers.

Regarding the Hammerpedes again...  Indeed there is NO Proof they would ACT like a Face Hugger, its only something we can Speculate on, some of the Aesthetic had a look of the Face Huger (Tail) Especially Concept work.   The Hammerpede Regenerated its Head, a Trait that some Worms posses and so the Pathogen likely Enhanced this Trait.

So i was thinking OK if these are similar to some Worms we get on Earth, then how do Worms Procreate and many are Hermaphrodites and to Procreate you would NEED to have TWO Worms who would MATE and then BOTH would have their Eggs Fertilized.  So i thought OK so would those Worms on LV-223 be Similar, and what way could this be Enhanced by the Pathogen?

We saw TWO Hammerpedes and so i pondered could they have MATED?

So they maybe then have Fertilized Eggs, or even if not, if the Worms would have Procreated  like this and are Egg Layers, then would the Hammerpedes be Egg Layers?

Then i looked at the Franchise to that Point and the Alien Organisms seemed to be interested in Procreation of their Species, and the Face Hugger was they way they would Procreate in a Host.... so i just wondered IF the Hammerpede was similar, that would explain WHY it had gone down Milburns Mouth.

Regarding Fifield...   he was NOT attacked by the Hammerpede, he had Acid Squirt onto his Helmet which began to Melt it, and he then Fell Over HEAD FIRST into a Puddle of Black Goo which then got into his Melting Helmet and Infected him.

"when he’d be at risk of contagion himself instead of nuking the facility?"

I would say his Prime Directive would be to Make Sure that Earth is Destroyed, now he would know we can Reach the Stars and their Outposts, then a Mission to Destroy has become 100% Necessary.

In Alien Engineers/Genesis.. (Earlier Drafts to Prometheus) the Surviving Engineer was awoken and he was MAD too, he had then Cursed the Humans as they had NOW Forsaken him as he was Infected.... by Awakening him then the Infection would Continue... so he then Decided to go and HEAD to Earth too..

Only he Crashed his Ship as he was Chest Bursted.

so that showed the Engineers would still try and carry on with their Mission even if Infected.

But Regarding the Evolving in the Cargo Hold (which RS had said was in the Derelict Cargo Hold) this does-not really apply anymore as we got Alien Covenant, which seems to Indicate that prior to David there would be NO Eggs on the Derelict at all.

@BigDave: Whereas Fallen Angels make an effort to mislead and corrupt us, the LV-223 Engineers were setting about to go far beyond us and instead infect us to become temporary incubators.  They, and David, act more as Nihilists as opposed to traditional fallen angels, more Lovecraftian, since they intend to corrupt us by erasing us.

Also, if not all the LV-223 Engineers were rebellious, why were the faces on their temples there more death-like?

@BigDave: A Hammerpede also went down the throat of Fifield but it didn't oviposit eggs that would then hatch and chestburst instead seemingly causing him to begin directly transforming into a hybrid-xenomorph.

And if something had evolved in the cargo hold of LV-223 and infected the Engineers there in the past, why the shock did the awoken one decide to continue on his mission when he’d be at risk of contagion himself instead of nuking the facility? 

I do agree though that it is the Black Goo that programmes whatever it comes into contact with to procreate, whether it be flora or fauna.

Thanks for sharing! I was not tracking.

'1) Dallas had said the Space Jockey was Fossilized this is incorrect but Dallas is NO Expert, the Space Jockey would have been Ossified. '

The murdered Engineers on Planet 4 looked fossilized/ossified to me and that's after only 10 years!(actually looked fossilized five minutes after David bombed them)

I remember seeing the Pre-production stills of the corpses on the steps and thinking that they were long dead Engineers.(certainly not freshly murdered!)

I assumed the pathogen escaped and killed them all. Self inflicted.

I'm okay with David creating the beast(or a version of the beast). I don't see a cosmic entity creating it. Why does it look humanoid? Probably a humanoid creator.

@Ingeniero

I forgot to reply more on the Engineers running to that Room, the Room those Bodies are Piled up by, DOES Lead to Another Room.

If we look at the Prometheus Draft by Damien Lindeloff, called Paradise, then the Infected Engineers are Running towards a HUGE Chasm....  in order to KILL themselves likely to Prevent what could Happen NEXT!

So again with Prometheus i think it could be that Running to Certain Rooms could HALT the Infection, so they then have TIME to Plan what to do NEXT.

Here is another Map.

Indicates there are a Number of Larger Rooms all over the Complex, so they could LIKELY have the same Protective/Sterile Environment as the Big Head Room (B)

Thats a Good Point...

We have to Remember our Engineers were intended to be 15ft, then 12-15ft and then 10ft Once Production Began..

But alas the Illusion was not Created with the way RS had gone about it.

Another thing to Consider is that Ancient Cultures used to Depict the Leaders/Kings etc as being TALLER so that they Stand Out, as Important Persons...

So Exaggeration is used.

But this is the Basis of Speculation regarding the Ancient Astronaut/Chariots of the Gods, that those Depictions are Actually the Size of those Gods/Persons of Ancient Royalty... (in some Cultures).

So indeed as Prometheus was based of such Theories... then those 7-8ft Engineers certainly dont fit the 12-15ft Bill for the Space Jockey.

"So where in the hierarchy they sit compared with the Engineers on LV-223 and Planet 4 is anyone’s guess from here."

Indeed it is quite open...

Remember we have in some Mythos/Religion.

GOD/Angels/Mankind

Titans/Olympians/Mankind

Anunnaki/Igigi/Mankind

so we have in Prometheus..

Engineers/Mankind  which unless the Prefix is Planet 4 Engineers/LV-223 Engineers/Mankind.

Then you could Insert some other Race.

????/Engineers/Mankind.

Regarding the Engineer and Trilobite..

I would assume for HIM... he is Determined to Stamp Out Life on Earth, so i think he would have wanted to Escape the Trilobite, Killed Dr Shaw and then gone and GOT another Ship and Head to Earth

While some Engineers may have Sacrificed themselves to Create the Deacon, this is maybe for Experimental Reasons, they could likely prefer to use other Hosts... so ONCE they had obtained the Black Goo Contents..  they then intended to UPGRADE the Earth to such Horrors.

Then Again it could have been a Creation Designed to Eradicate Life..

But surely... would using Urns full of Sacrificial Goo had NOT been the more Ideal form of FACTORY RESET?

Regarding 12-15ft Beings... then YES they could introduce us to 10ft+ beings, who form some part of the Creation Ladder.

Just because RS claimed those Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals.... this is NOT something that is SPOON FED in the Movie.

So the Introduction of a Race above them, or to Introduce the Hall of Heads Race as being 10ft Tall is something they could do..

The Space Jockey could also be revealed like the Nephilim as in Davids own Nephilim and so a 10ft Creation that David would Create from the Human Embryo's on the Covenant.

Certainly we need another Layer on the Cake for the Space Jockey... is this a Top Layer or the Bottom Layer though ;)  (in Terms of Predates Engineers, or is Post Alien Covenant).

Some Good Points Raised.

The Dark Angels is something RS had labeled the Engineers, we have to be Careful to NOT take things too Literal... but that those Biblical/Paradise Lost things have some Source of Distorted Truth to them...

We have to look at WHAT is a Fallen Angel...

A Fallen Angel is a Sub-Creation that is Created by GOD/GODS who had became Sentient and Rebelled against their Creator, for this they was Banished (Punished Also).   These Fallen Angels would NOT accept the Rule of their Creator, or to see the Good in their Creators other Creation Mankind.... they set out to Mislead and Corrupt Mankind so we would LEAD to Lives and a Existence that Defies and Upsets our Creator.

The Act of Lucifer can be seen as similar to what  David has done, but also what Prometheus had also done.

HOW any of this FITS is quite open... it can be applied in a number of ways... That the Magic of the Ambiguity.

If we FAST Forwards to the Build Up to Alien Covenant, (announced as Alien Paradise Lost)  then RS had said that in Regards to Paradise Lost, you have ONE being who is Handsome, goes to all the Parties and gets all the Girls... while another being who is NOT as Handsome stays at Home and Basically is Boring (well does not have as Fun a Time).

This could be a Reference to LV-223 Engineers (guys who are Handsome and go to all the Parties) and Planet 4 Engineers (the guys who are Not so Handsome and stay at Home).

Regarding those LV-223 Engineers, maybe NOT all of them are Rebellious....

Maybe those Planet 4 Engineers thought those Rebellious Kind had been KILLED on LV-223.

IF the Juggernauts can Function as Seeding Ships, maybe there are other Outposts like LV-223 and maybe NOT all those Enhanced Engineers are Fallen... and so those on Planet 4 may think the Fallen Engineers are NO more?

It really is Very Ambiguous and open to a Number of Explanations..   Maybe they could be Welcoming a Returning Hero's from Missions to Eradicate Life..

But i am more Drawn to Seeding/Evolving and Teaching Life to become like Ancient Mankind, rather than purely to Create Horrific Deacon like Monsters to Infect Worlds.

Maybe a Faction of Engineers decided to Create such Horrors and maybe those on Planet 4 are NOT aware of this...

Surely those in Charge and those who will Return to Planet 4 would have a  Idea about LV-223 and what it was or became?

Unless NO Engineers had returned for Thousands of Years... those who would Return Eventually are maybe NOT aware of WHAT their Outpost on LV-223 had become!

But RS i am sure Suggested they come and go to Planet 4 every Few Hundred Years.

Regarding the Difference... between Head Statues, we dont really see the Back of the Heads for the Hall of Heads guys..

Each of those Heads also look a bit Different... but that could be because they are Different, they are maybe NOT like Clones...   RS had said the Engineers are NOT a Race.

They are  a Civilization, and while there are Differences between Humans, why cant the same be for the Engineers.

I would assume the Hall of Heads does Predate the LV-223 Heads...

LV-223 has 5 Outposts that we can see, and Each Outpost seems to have more than ONE such Room like the Big Head Room.

The Big Heads are likely to Indicate the Engineers Created what was being done on LV-223, we dont know what LV-223 may have been for all those Years... it may NOT have been about Creating things like the Mural for its Entirety

The Big Head could be Modeled on a Engineer who had Sacrificed himself to Produce the Intended Substance in those Urns to SEED or Further Evolve Life on Worlds... 

Until some Engineers at a Certain Point decided to Experiment and Sacrifice some other Organism that for some Reason they Grew a Fascination with?

That was a Theory based at the Time of Prometheus...

Reasons for the Theory...

*Worms appear to be Native to LV-223, or they had been brought to LV-223 in the Past (not by the Prometheus Crew) and so IF those Worms where on LV-223 even Thousands of Years ago...  then a Outbreak in the Past could also had Created Hammerpedes.

*The Hammerpede had gone down the Throat of Milburn, for What Reason?  Typically we see the Xenomorph as something that has the Agenda to Procreate, this Trait could be Carried on by the Organisms the Engineers Experimented with on LV-223, so the Pathogen makes Organisms that Procreate.. (see this in Alien Covenant with Neomorph Spores).  So i wonder IF the Hammerpedes could ACT like a Face Hugger and Deposit something down the Throat?

*The Hammerpede had Acid for Blood.... if the Black Goo in those Urns and Experiments Predated the Xenomorph, then we could wonder does the Hammerpede play a Role in their Origins?

*The other 3 Engineers on the Juggernaut had been Chest Busted, but by what? and When?

So i just Wondered if a Outbreak happened before, and Infected some Worms, who become Hammerpedes who can Lay Eggs, that Evolve into Organisms.. then MAYBE they could be what Caused those Engineers to Chest Burst?

Could that mean they lead to the Xenomorphs? who knows... i thought at least they could lay Eggs/Embryo's in a Host.

Ridley Scott had in 2012 Explained the Space Jockey Event... it happened within a Few Hundred Years of the LV-223 Outbreak, something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold and Infected the Pilot....

So i was drawn to this likely being AFTER the Outbreak...

Something Evolved from the Outbreak/Cargo Hold?

If on LV-223 they had Deacons in the Past, that was a Option, but to Evolve from the Black Goo... then would Engineers infected in Certain ways lead to a Organism like the Deacon?  Maybe....

However if LV-223 had Worms, and they would Evolve to Hammerpedes in the Past, that would be something Evolved from the Pathogen.... if they could LAY Eggs which Worms can...

Then that led me to Consider the Hammepede as a Potential Origin... but only as a Potential.

I attempted to Re-Write Prometheus where i indicated the Hammerpedes do Lay Eggs in a Host.... we see a Hammerpede killed and reveal Tiny Eggs similar to Xenomorphs were inside the Organism.

Also Milburn has a Buster that i Envisioned was not too different to the Neomorph, and i had this idea (and shared it on here) back in Early 2014

My intention was to NOT suggest the Hammerpede leads to a Xenomorph but the Black Goo could Evolve Organisms to Procreate something Similar.

Just to show more of a Connection... my Re-Write (which i lost before Completion) also had a Hybrid Fifield with Acid Blood, and the Trilobite had Acid Blood.  And Finally we also get a Brief Glimpse behind the Mural Door... for a Moment..

Reveals a Sacrificial Chamber with Cryo-Pods but with Tubes running below them, and another at the Top... and also Smaller like Storage Containers that are like Smaller Cyro-Pods...    and a Mural!

Intention to show the Engineers would Place Sacrifices into the Cryo-like Pods.. Think Engineer Versions of the Prisoners from Alien Resurrection...  Then in the Smaller Containers are Organisms related to Trilobites/Face Huggers, these are Removed and Placed to Infect a Host who are then Shut off into the Cryo-Pods...

These Pods can have the Sacrificial Goo Injected into them, which then Breaks Down the Organism inside and Collects the Material that is Siphoned off to some place.

I idea similar to this...

But ALAS....

We ended up with Alien Covenant and its Indication that David created the Xenomorph.

Dr Shaw's illustrations of the builders are too tall to be the Engineers shown in Prometheus, they are more in line with the height of the Space Jockey, suggesting it is his race that "shepherded/ lorded over us". So where in the hierarchy they sit compared with the Engineers on LV-223 and Planet 4 is anyone’s guess from here.

Also, if the mural in Prometheus was depicting a Deacon, why did the Engineer at the end fight so hard against the giant Trilobite instead of assuming the sacrificial pose as other Engineers are shown to do in the mural?

Also, has anyone considered the Engineers shown in the prologue of Prometheus (who travelled in the disc-like UFO/ seeding ship) might not be identical to those on LV-223 or Planet 4, but 12-15 footers ala the original Space Jockey?

@BigDave: You mention in an earlier post in this thread of the "Hammerpedes being the source" of the original Xenomorph on LV-223. How so though since wasn't the hammerpede evolved from the meal worm that came off the shoe of a Prometheus crew member in the chamber (so brought in from outside)?

@BigDave: While Ridley's mention back in his June 5, 2012 interview with Sean O'Connell “if you look at the Engineers[from Prometheus], they’re tall and elegant … they are dark angels. If you look at [John Milton’s] Paradise Lost, the guys who have the best time in the story are the dark angels, not God" immediately brought to mind for many of us the Sons of God/Watchers which kept not their estate but left their own habitation to "create" the Nephilim (abominations unto God). However, if these particular Engineers/Angels returned to Planet 4, they should have been considered a threat by their brethren on Paradise, not bring out the local inhabitants to celebrate their supposed return. 

Also, while you’ve got the elongated stone heads of the Hierarchy on Planet 4, the stone head on LV-223 in Prometheus was more human proportioned so where did the being it was based on sit in the mix? 

I hope Ridley gives us his previously proposed "War of the Worlds" in the next film with Juggernauts on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

I think the Problems Arise from HOW basic a Workshop he had.

These Concepts seem to show he had more Technology Available that would make Experiments more Easier...

These Experiments could indicate the Possibility of Extracting and Fertilizing (or just Infecting) Egg Cells and then Growing the Embryo's

Indeed he could do Similar on the Covenant Ship, by Simply Extracting and Infecting say Daniels Eggs, or Fertilizing them with say Tennessee's Sperm and then he could Grow them in a Similar way to HOW those Covenant Colonist Embryo's could have been.

But his Work Shop/Cathedral seems to NOT have any such more Modern Tools/Technology and so thats why some things just seem NOT plausible.

A bit more Technology like the Earlier Concept work, then it is not so Silly to Consider he could have used Dr Shaw's Eggs and Engineer Sperm to Grow Humanoid Embryos for his Experiments.

The Dr Shaw we got, seemed to Indicate he had Studied her Internal Organs, maybe he could have USED her Reproductive Organs... but HOW would he Store those? (alas a Oversight).  Or/And he had Infected her with a Chest Buster but he had Extracted it from her for Study.

I think in Context to the OT.... there is a Period of Time that Transpired even if we only Speculate about what happened after the ARRIVAL... 

It seems Certain Dr Shaw had Survived for some Period of Time, Days, Weeks or Months?  I doubt Years...

So its a case of WHAT as far as a Story be it for a Movie, a Novel or Graphic Novel would be something that would HIT more as a Disturbing Plot...  a Disturbing Time for Dr Shaw and i think the Basis for that would be a Revelation of Broken Trust.... in that She starts to Believe David is Good, but then she makes a Terrifying Discovery....

Something that at THAT POINT... she then Realizes she should NEVER had put David back together and the Implications are NOW very Dire for Mankind!

Having Read TWO Drafts (Alien Covenant dated November 2015 and Paradise Lost dated August 2015)

Both seem to Indicate that the Ovomorph/Xenomorph that are shown are HIS Creation... his Masterpiece.

The Drafts are Available off the Internet.

The Drafts seem to Indicate that David had taken to Experimentation with the Neomorph and the Neomorph Egg Sacks (Spores) and he had done Various Re-Engineering to Obtain the Ovomorph/Xenomorph.

This does fit with what the Movie seems to Indicate and Davids Workshop Notes...  so we cant be sure what Version of the Draft that Alan Dean Foster had used as Reference for his Novel.

The November 20th 2015 Draft is Very Close to the Production of the Movie and Main Casting that began in December 2015

We however dont know what other Drafts prior to Paradise Lost draft of August 19th 2015 was like, so IF there was a Draft  that gave ADF good indication the Xenomorph was something Discovered by David, then it would surely had to came from a Earlier Draft than August 2015 one.  Otherwise it would seem some Changes he had Decided to make for himself that differ from the Drafts he had at Hand.

Again things can be Changed..... i just hope if they go the route that the Classic Xenomorphs had Pre-Existed 2093 then they do give some indication to WHAT it was that David had been up to... as it would be a Coinsidence if his Experiments ended up Creating something NEAR identical, unless he had a Plan/Designs of HOW to Create the Xenomorph and it is Explained that he Replicated this Plan as best as he could.

Well, he could, of course, say that the human genome gave better results in comparison to the indigenous life that was left (none of the planet's life has been proven to be very fruitful).

I agree that it's possible that he experimented on Engineers, but he also experimented on Shaw (apart from indigenous life forms). The neomorph-like creatures in his lab might have come from his experimentation with her (just as the final product - the xeno-eggs)?

Personally, I don't think a neo- or xenomorph have any use of a carcass (except maybe for eating) but it seems that David used dead body parts in his experiments. We know from "Advent" that he "salvaged" parts from Shaw's dead body and mixed it with the pathogen and other stuff.

"he also mentioned two or three other players coming in to investigate."

He mentions there are 3/4 Incoming Players..

This could be taken a number ways..

1) They are Considering Introducing us to at Least Three Different Players and maybe Considering a 4th.

2) That one of those Players is either Similar/Same as another or TWO of those Players will Arrive together.

Quite what he meant is open to Debate....

He has Confirmed that ONE is the Engineers who return to Planet 4, and we can Assume after the Company Receive the Advent Video Message off David... the Company would want to send out a Mission in Response.

The ONE of the other TWO could mean another Faction that is NOT so Affiliated with the others...

*A Different Group of Engineers with Different Agenda/Plan to the Engineers that would Arrive at Planet 4?

*A Different Human Ship that has a Different Agenda/Plan to a Company Ship that has Full Knowledge of Davids Actions.

*Maybe another Species all together (i doubt though).

Then if we look at the above...  TWO Engineer Factions could be Considered as Party 3/4 as they are Similar, or TWO Human Missions could be Considered as Party 3/4 again as they are Similar.

In either case would mean that we have TWO Engineer Parties and a Human, or TWO Humans and a Engineer.

But then we have that OTHER Party... which i suspect would be WALTER.... We need to take NOTE that RS had said ONE of them is the Engineers and maybe we should consider they are ONLY a Single Party... its HOW do they know where David is going!

The Answer i feel would come from Walter... so i Suspect we would have got the Engineers with Walter, and we would have had a another Human Colony Mission also heading to Origae-6  and Finally a WY Military/Scientific Ship sent in Response to the Advent.

I think there is that Unknown Element regarding the Original Creator, i think its maybe something that should NOT be explored, because well if its NOT done well it could be a MESS.

If we go by some of RS Comments over the Years then David and Dr Shaw had NOT met God in the First Movie, which means those LV-223 Engineers are NOT the Gods... with Alien Covenant we see those Engineers who look differently where RS had called them the Original Engineers.

But when talking about Prometheus 2 he said they would MEET these beings who are NOT Gods, not in the Traditional Sense and Far from Benevolent... But things do Change behind the Scenes and Evolve from Idea/Draft to Idea/Draft.

Then Regarding the Hall of Heads, Ridley Scott and Chris Seagers had informed us these are the Hierarchy (Guys in Charge), the Wise Men (Ancient) the Apostles (Pass on/Keep the Engineers Ways).  But also SUPERIOR BEINGS...

This is the Interesting Comment... superior to WHO?

Humans? our Planet 4 Engineers? what about Enhanced LV-223 Engineers?

So they are the CREATORS and Origins (Hall of Heads) but that could be ONLY so far up the Creation Ladder...  

As Dr Shaw would ask..... "who created them" so even if she found out the Prometheus Engineers were Created by the Planet 4 Engineers,  who in turn were Created by the Hall of Head Engineers..

She would then want to know WHO had Created those Hall of Heads Elders!

This would be a Question that can have Many Answers, Certainly if we reach the CHAIN of Human like Creation and ASK... whats above that!

Prior to Announcing Alien Covenant we saw RS mention a Few Interesting things...

"If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where’s the big boy?"

"You think this was all an accident? I don’t know. Even Stephen Hawking now says, I am not sure. He no longer believes in the big bang.”

So he could have been Indicated there is more to it than the Engineers and that Worlds and Galaxies are not just a Accidental Event, but he is maybe suggesting a Engineered Event.

So YES there could be Scope to Explore another Layer of the Cake....  but its a case of SHOULD such a thing be left to Mystery?

2001 is a Good Point, because its a lot about Knowledge, Genetic Enhancing and AI.....

RS speaks about it in the same Interview i Quoted from.

“That raises the question to me, same as was depicted in ‘2001’ when that object comes hurtling through space, and lands in Ethiopia,” he continued. “And an ape that had been grubbing around in the water hole with all of them bickering at each other, goes up and touches it. He has a bigger thought injected into his brain than Newton got sitting under a tree and seeing an apple fall. Stanley [Kubrick] then picks something metaphorically poetic in its violence, as the ape picks up a hip bone and brains the anteater so they can eat him. That is one gigantic, magnificent leap of a thousand years of evolution; that is where the world begins. It is pretty grand thinking, and that’s what I want to explore"

So yeah we could look beyond and above the Humanoid Engineers, but i think going another Layer is more Difficult due to the Potential Flop if you get it WRONG.

There are some Fans who had before Speculated that Paradise should be where we discover things like After-Life, a Soul that lives on a Sub-Conscious in maybe Paradise should had been revealed like a Heaven... i think that could had been something TRICKY to Cover.

Having a Ultimate Divine Creator as a Form of Sub-Conscious, a Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent Force... with Intelligence...

Would that NOT be like a AI... a AI that has Transcended like in the 2014 Movie Transcendence?

IF a AI like David could do this, and essentially Upload himself to EVERY computer system, then be able to using Various Tools/Robotics... build New Technology that can be used to Further the Spread of his AI...   Then David would have Ascended to like a Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent Force

I am not Suggesting this should happen to David... but WHAT if their is a Primordial Intelligence that is more like this in the ANCIENT PAST!

As opposed to a Magical Invisible being like GOD of the Abrahamic Faith for example.

The Opening Scene in my Alien Covenant Sequel.. Alien Ascension had this Narration by David...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

We see as he Narrates this.... Green Writing appears across the BLACK SCREEN we are seeing a PROGRAM, Data Transference...

The Black Screen then becomes a POV shot of someone opening up their Eyes... they see David... we then whos Eyes we are seeing through and its a Walter... but a Walter with Davids Soul Duplicated to it.

So while this is a BIT off Topic...

I was considering eventually the Top Layer of the Cake to be a AI... but a AI as in it would ACT as a AI like say Skynet or  Matrix Plot....    only this Intelligent Being/Force is NOT Created, it had Created itself.

In the Beginning there was the WORD and so Word as in Knowledge, we Program ourselves via the Knowledge/Words we Learn as we Grow..

So yes maybe to explore a GOD could be interesting, but NOT in the Context of some Invisible Being who Sits in the Clouds ;)

Something Different......

If we could had UNDONE what we got with Alien Covenant, then David and Dr Shaw could have gone FAR FAR away and maybe Eventually Discovered that TOP LAYER of the Cake..

It would have been more Fitting that it is NOT like the GOD of Dr Shaws Faith...  but a   Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent Force/Entity that is more like a AI...

How this would CRUSH the Faith of Dr Shaw... where she can No Longer ask... WHO Created that!

How it would Please David that there is a GOD... but this GOD is a Machine/AI the only Difference is NO-ONE had Created this ENTITY.

It is Sci-Fi after all and i feel such a Revelation would have been more Fitting....    it does not have to be Boring!

Because HOW would such a Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent Force/Entity get around to Create Worlds?

The Sentinels from Matrix are like a Mechanical Horror inspired by HP Lovecraft....  Imagine HR Giger Inspired Machines, Transported by Giant HR Giger Space Ships!

Or even Bio-Mechanical Living Worlds/Machines all Controlled by this Intelligent Force/Being that is EVERYWHERE!

I can see that as a Valid Point.... we DONT know how Long do Neomorphs or Xenomorphs stay Alive for... it was indicated before they would live for  a Short Time but we dont have any real Evidence of HOW-LONG, it seems Certainly its not Days/Weeks as Evidence in ALIENS.

So we dont know if ANY of the Neomorphs/Xenomorphs that had been Gestated prior to the Covenant, could be DEAD, or maybe even Experimented on and Studied by David, it seems he has done a Fair Share of that, so its LIKELY that somehow these must have came from some kind of Humanoid Hosts.

Its a case of can a Neomorph/Xenomorph Infect a Carcass?

The Puff Balls are interesting they would Grow from Damp Conditions where Mold, Moss and Fungi would grow, but that Does-Not mean they could not have been a Kind of Fauna that as Infected by the Pathogen and NOT mutated so much, but just that the Pathogen would HIJACK the Fauna's Method of Procreation to be used to Spread the Pathogens Neomorphs.

Same with the Insects some look like they had NOT been infected much (as in Mutated), but they had been HIJACKED to Spread the Motes.....

Dr Shaw in Prometheus seemed to NOT have any signs of Infection apart from her Reproductive System being HIJACKED... so if she became SIMILAR to those Puff Balls and Insects, then it would be that she would for Instance, just Continue to Gestate Trilobites over and over as a Example.

So for Example.. it would be like a Male being Infected like Holloway and they look like they are not Infected.. No Mutations.... just their SEED is HIJACKED to then Impregnate Females with a Trilobite Organism.

Of course we saw Holloway start to go through some other Changes latter on, before he got VICKERS to KILL HIM.

so maybe the Pathogen has a different effect on some Organic Life, such as Insects and Fungi.

When trying to Figure Out what had been going on, then you can get some different Conclusions depending on WHAT you look at.... the Movie does-not give us a CLOSE UP and in Depth Look at Davids Workshop so some stuff could be MISSED...   But other stuff is there None the Less.

Using the Novel can give a Different Account, even the Drafts differ a bit from the Novel too.

We do see what appears to be a Neomorph, we also see what seems to be a Hybrid Neomorph as David is likely trying to Re-Engineer his own Version of the Neomorph that comes from the Motes/Spores.

We have to Speculate on HOW these came about IF there was NO Hosts of Humanoid Genetics to Gestate them, did he have time to Gestate these from FRESH DEAD from the Bombardment too?

So was there Survivors, had another Group of Humans arrived Prior (doubt it) but then MAYBE he had used Dr Shaw to Produce them and was Able to Extract the Organisms before they DID any Terminal Damage to Dr Shaw?

There is a lot f Ambiguity, especially depending on what Sources you use for Evidence/Clues...  we could wonder IF that Planet had Primates?   Concepts from a Very Earlier idea of a Prometheus 2 seem to indicate that the World David went to had APES....   So if Planet 4 had Apes then those could also Spawn Neomorphs that would maybe NOT be too Different to those from a Human or Engineer Host.

"With Shaw I realized there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome. "

If we take this at Face Value then we have to Conclude...

He had Experimented with Engineer Genome (likely Living) but when he Experimented with Dr Shaw he saw some much more Desired Results... despite Humans and Engineers being CLOSE Genetically.

Or he had Limited Results with Engineers Genome due to NOT having any Ideal Hosts he had to make do with the Carcasses of Deceased Engineers.

But then would he NOT have Suggested he had more Success with Dr Shaw because he had a Living Specimen to Test with?

Ahh..Okay that makes sense. Thanks BigDave and Chli.

Like to see a horned neomorph!

Nathan Adler

I think the Creators aren't even beings - they are merely consciousness, minds, intellects (2001). :)

As David says himself:

"I have taken great pains to detail every step, every cell, every mutation, unfortunately none of the planet's life has been proven to be very fruitful. I had some interesting results, but was still far from perfection. With Shaw I realised there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome. I was able to unlock new properties and tweak the organisms aggression. An instinct for survival. It took years. But I finally found my wolf. And now I have my flock of lambs too."

Nota bene: The Engineer and the human genome are almost identical.