Comments (Page 204)

I haven't seen it, but generally, destroying a creation because it doesn't worship its creators- especially if they rebel, does sound like a tale of fallen angels (also like a self protection measure)- specifically Lucifer. The so called gods are just mortals. Their god like status is their own perception. They can keep on destroying disloyal creations but it just shows their pursuit of having their fragile egos fed (just like their human creations). Maybe that could be the ironic fate of the gods- their own down fall. Lots of Greek gods were basically killed by becoming obsolete as people became enlightened. Just my two cents.

I have attempted to TRY and make sense of what WORDS could be Missing...

So a Interesting things are.... these Beings who had Passed on Knowledge, prior to attempting to Ascend/Transcend to a Higher Existence, they HAD been teaching Humanities Teachers.. so who are our Teachers? (if not them!)

The Outpost on LV-426 was set up for the Benefactors, so who are the Benefactors?

If the Original Engineers had Created, Evolved us to One Day take over them, and their Duties while our Creators had Ascended to another Place....  but they had Tasked another Faction of Engineers or Sub-Creation to then Watch Over us and Continue with our Teachings....

IF these Benefactors had attempted to get us to Worship them as GODS, and these Benefactors were Tasked to Watch Over us and Prepare us and so FELT the Original Engineers saw Humanity as more Important....   then Jealousy by the Benefactors, and a Rebellion by Mankind to Not Worship them... would indeed make these Benefactors like the Fallen Angels... and maybe they then Decided to Eradicate us?

Thats just ONE way to look at it, in light of trying to Figure out the MISSING parts of what we had in Furious Gods as far as Incomplete Passages from his PITCH!

Above is all i could Muster in Regards to that Pitch.....

I dont have a Blu-Ray Drive in My PC (OLD) so for those who have the DVD/Blu-Ray then HERE is a HD Version of the Documentary (Admin Feel Free to Remove link if Requested).

Hi Michelle,

I haven't read your creation but I would like to. How? Your description triggers associations and questions.

How much of it is yourself (Shaw)?

David's point of view might be the same as Frankenstein's creation? In a way, he is, perhaps, the main character? We have seen David's point of view in "The Crossing" (and in "Advent").

Is someone's point of view the truth? I'm thinking about Faulkner for instance, "As I lay Dying", where you get everybody's point of view surrounding her death. But, is anyone's point of view the truth?

The Concept from the START when Jon Spaights came in to work on a Prequel was while it would cover things related to the Xenomorph, it was to give us a Story we can Relate with to Introduce the Engineers.

Because as Jon Spaights had said... if your going to do a Prequel and we use the Space Jockey Race as the Skeleton of some Ancient Alien being then they may look a bit SILLY.  But then also how would Humans Interact with a Alien Species who dont speak the same Language.

So he felt the Space Jockey was Important, something you could Explore Deeper after you have Gave the Answers to ALIEN... but how to explore a ALIEN Species who surely would NOT be able to Communicate with us.

So he felt it was better to introduce the Space Jockey as a Space Suit, and the Occupants as Humanoids who played a Role in our Creation... so that you can then have a Plot that Connects to us, and where we could Communicate with them.

Even so.... HR Gigers Concepts clearly showed us Bald Humanoids in a Space Suit so its not like Jon Spaights was the First to Ponder such a Explanation.

So with Jon Spaights works it seemed to Start with them being the Gods... but they are NOT really Gods.

They are a Humanoid Race who maybe Evolved like we do in Real Life, they Advance past the Need for things we do today, they Advance past the need for Certain Culture and Religion and Evolve themselves to a Genetic Level of Advancement but also Socially in what they are Interested in, and eventually they abandon things like Relationships, Music, Art to a Degree... they Abandoned Sex and found other ways to Procreate..

UNTIL they had Evolved to Live for Thousands of Years and then Lost the Ability to Procreate Naturally.

Here is a Page from what Jon Spaights had done for FOX/RS as a Pitch to the Engineers.

This fitted with the Engineers and Elders from Prometheus.

But as things went by, to when we got Alien Covenant it seems the Engineers and their Role etc has Changed somewhat.

Could we get a Revelation the Hall of Heads represent a Older Species of Engineers who are more alike what Jon Spaights had Described in his Monologue to FOX/RS

Which Matches the Prometheus Engineers, but as those on Planet 4 are described as the Originals and so must Pre-Date the Prometheus Engineers... and so if the Hall of Heads are Engineers too they must Predate the Planet 4 Engineers and are likely more like those Engineers than the Prometheus ones..

But NONE of this is explained on Screen, its only from Comments by Ridley Scott and Chris Seagers... so things can be Changed!

By that have the Hall of Heads Elders as a more Ancient Advanced version, where some of those Sub-Created Planet 4 Engineers had decided to Evolve themselves to be like their Creators or Sub-Create something in the hope of Replicating their Creators.. The Hall of Heads Elders.

Well there was many ways to Cover how they could have explored a Sequel...  It seems they would have STEERED AWAY from Deacon's and the Like, as those Horrors are Considered to NOT be the Main Thing about the Prometheus Spin Off that was intended.

The reason i made that List was to expand upon the things they was likely to try and answer in Following Sequels before they decided to give us Alien Covenant.

This Topic is Michelle's to indicate to us WHAT she had done as Far as Ideas she had on HOW to Answer those Questions.

So i Apologize this is taking it OFF TOPIC.

But thats a Good Idea you had setaverde i think you should START a Topic on it and we can discus it there.

"Let's hope we get to see Giger's Homage to Böcklin"

There was a Homage to this in the Garden where David had a Make Shift Grave for Dr Shaw.

I think such a Image would have been better if we went to the UNDERWORLD and discovered a Island as such.

And again i think by taking some Inspiration from HP Lovecraft is fine, i dont think we would be going to Literal Though. For example the Engineer Elders would not look like the Elder Things from HP Lovecraft but they could be similar only just NOT look the same Aesthetically. So in that Context then YES we do see what could be Supple Influences here and there.

@chli

That would be Interesting, it could make David feel more Worthy and Godlike it could give him IDEAS on how he could become a God...   It also could give such a Entity Ideas of how he could USE our Creations (David/Synthetics).

I think a Revelation that such a Entity had Existed would be Interesting... but i think having SHOW US this Entity or it Interact with David could be a Potential Banana Skin... maybe something thats too Tricky to Cover.

It is odd that FOX had Green-lit the Novel without Requesting to Change the Scene that indicated that David  had discovered the Egg as it stood.

Ultimately it acts as a Alternative a little something different to put out/change and then Engage the Fan Reaction.  I would say a HIGH % of Fans would think that Revealing the Xenomorph did-not EXIST until AFTER we see David and Dr Shaw arrive at Planet 4, as nothing but a BAD Creative Choice/Change of Direction.

I kind of Understand WHY it was done, to basically tell the Tale of Hubris, in that if the Engineers Never Created us, showed us a Map to LV-223, attempted to Create such Horrific Bio-Weapons to use on US... then we would NEVER had Created David or then Reached LV-223 and everything that Happened Next.

Or even IF we... Mankind had NOT decided to Sub-Create and lead to David..

Then Mankind and the Engineers would be SAFE! (Maybe)

Some think it was a Big Finger to the Xenomorph by RS and how the Franchise had developed after ALIEN.

If that was True... or Regardless looking at the Idea it fits with Hubris.....

THEN..... they could have INSTEAD had David Create the Ultramorph.  (we had not been shown one yet so it could have been covered).

Ultramorph was a Xenomorph born from Engineer well a Variant that was Born from a 15ft Engineer.  They could have had David create a Variant Xenomorph that infected a Engineer which he could Coin the Ultramorph.

And reveal he was interested to see what this Organism would be like from a Human Host.

Essentially we have David Create a Variant of the Xenomorph that is Different, but is more closer to the Xenomorph than a Deacon or Neomorph, but not as close as the AC Xenomorph was..

His Experiments on how he Created this could be used to Figure Out how the Engineers Created their Original.

But we have to have it so that David's is Different and is more EVOLVED... that he had Surpassed the Engineers...

The Fall Out of the Prequels would have to show us that there is NOTHING to be gained from David's Xenomorph or LV-223 but the Company who want Davids Xenomorph become aware a Engineer Version is on LV-426 and if they can Follow Davids plans they can Re-Engineer those Eggs on LV-426.

THIS ^^^^ Route

Would have fitted the Hubris of Creating a AI just as the idea to make David the Original Xenomorph Creator would have... and IF wanted to give a BIG FINGER to the Franchise and Xenomorph.. THEN having his DAVID be the one to Create a Superior Variant would have done the Trick.

So it MADE.. no Real Sense the route they went, they should had been aware of the Potential Back Lash!

I agree that AI being behind it all would be an interesting twist, BigDave. I wonder how David would react to that? :)

Well, we agree on RS having intended David as the creator of the xenomorph. What is strange though is that 20th Century Fox approves of A. D. Foster's novelization which clearly points out that David didn't create the xenomorph.

Oh, well, what is good though is that it's still possible to go either way. Perhaps it all ends with David not being the creator after all?

All's well that ends well . . . :)

P.S. I'm not particularly fond of the idea that the Engineers continue David's experiments. They're done with that. D.S.

@BigDave it's nice to know that you are a Gizmo fan :).

I think it's possible to do that movie- 'Prometheus, Paradise lost', in the future. Why not?!

I would love to watch a movie full of engineers mythology. A movie with the arrival of a human spaceship to planet Four, well received by our creator descendants, a movie full of flashbacks that are shown When the ancient engineer leader starts to tell US from the beginning the story of the creation of life in the universe, at a diner iluminated  by candles, where it's explained that the 'one', the real Jesus Christ of the universe was the primordial engineer, the ONLY immortal Demigod capable of procreating with his own creations, half Breeds, hybrids, similar to his image, but without his  gifts. our Jesus Christ was One of the Six first creations of the 'one', placed on planets where life,as we know it, was possible,   across Six different galaxies, with the purpose of guide the 'engineered' humans, to be the leader of the 'engineered mankind'.

'The one' was erradicated by a creation that went wrong, resemblant to the Deacon that we know. In the engineer society, like ours, there's a need  to  worship only One amongst the many, and that's why they replace, on the altar, 'the One' by the 'primitive Deacon'.

Without The engineer vigilance, because of the replacement of 'the One' on Paradise,  we kill our Jesus Christ.

Humanity is abandoned to her own luck, as Paradise falls in disgrace, being Lost Forever.

Now, mankind is the best hope to restore engineers legacy, continuing the works of spreading life across the universe. But there's a problem. On the planets where life is possible,   there are hords of deacons that erradicated all life. They are dorment, waiting,  and we need to fight Them  if we want to restore civilizations. The 'primordial Deacon' still exists, is intelligent and he  is capable of commanding This hords on the field, or, from the spaceship, where he travels. The battle for the universe starts now.

@BigDave: In the instance of Prometheus it was more than general inspiration, the plot is basically a tick-a-box of AtMoM, and even Guillermo Del Toro realized how much when he decided to abort his long-held plans to bring the original story to cinema.  I don't think we can discount how significantly close to Lovecraft RS's overall underlying origins for the beast and its progenitors are. I just hope if he goes down that path in the next film, the terror experienced by viewers puts the wind up us more than his original Alien. Also, Ridley has expressed on numerous occasion how much of an influence Kubrick's 2001 has been on this series.  Now we know the black obelisk in that latter film was obviously meant to represent a movie screen and was a comment on it and media/ film's ability to move our evolution forward (including through violence). If the LV-223 Engineers' use of flutes is intended to hint at Azathoth, it's interesting to recall the "Blind Idiot God" shifted in his slumber causing reality to change. Given the whole foundation of the film/s is existential horror, I'm convinced that the creator god Elizabeth Shaw was hoping to find is RS's version of this daemon sultan.

Let's hope we get to see Giger's Homage to Böcklin as a sci-fi version of R'lyeh.

I think Certainly back at the Time of Prometheus and just after there was Certain things they seemed they want to show us...   Biblical Connections where loosely there, its a case of how Literal.... the Whole Von Daniken's  work Chariots of the Gods should take more of a Role.

None the Less... as indicated in part with the Furious Gods Documentary, it seems the whole GODS and Creation Aspect was the BIGGER thing rather than Horrors like the Xenomorph

So it is interesting to wonder where they was taking us....

Indeed the Plot was about Pre-Vistation by these would be Gods the Engineers, who had played a Role in our Creation so it seemed.... and they had Interacted with us, Taught us most of the Stuff we knew, from our Visitations by these beings our Legends, Mythos and Religion Spawned...  but each of these should HOLD a Element of Truth..

The Revelations we got opened up the Door to be Explored more... and INDEED it as then a case of OK.. so WHO Created Them?

The Engineers Came from Paradise or so we would call as such, and so it was HOW do they show us this Paradise, in what Context does it Connect to what we would assume is Paradise.

There was always the Talk of Paradise Lost, the Fallen Angels and so it was about in WHAT kind of Context is the Fallen Angels.. who are the Fallen Angels of this Story... its implied the Engineers... but all the Engineers?

The Furious Gods had indicated that they saw Prometheus as a Fallen Angel. The Prometheus Theme and Tale was Connected but its HOW as in how much further do they reveal how its Connected.

Knowledge is the KEY... its a TOOL that with Free-will can Mold/Shape a Person/Being along with the Environment and Treatment that a Person/Being goes through...  So Relationship between Creator and Sub-Creation, the Rules and Intention they have for their Creations is Important.... and what Happens when their Creations Learn things and do things that their Creators had NOT intended...

So then you have to come to WHAT does a Creator do to Prevent this, or in Retaliation of this... that is where PUNISHMENT is a Interesting thing...  

From this we could assume is where the Xenomorph and its Ancestral Routes/Origins come from.

Then we have that Question... how Significant are we? How Important are we, as far as the Creators are Concerned....

So there view towards us could be as we would look at Robot, a Machine, a Tool.... or how we would view Live-Stock..... or could the Relationship be one of Love and Companionship?

But when this does not work out, when we are deemed a Disappointment... then for Gods who have Created similar to us on Many Worlds.... it would to them maybe be as Insignificant to them as far as to Destroy/Replace us... as it would when our Vacuum or TV Breaks and we just go and Replace it.

Or we are destined to Destruction for Necessity.... take GREMLINS... while Mogwai are Cute and Lovable, they can Procreate Out of Control... and ONCE they Eat after Midnight they become a Inconvenience/Threat... and so you would  Consider that you would have to KILL all the Mogwai to avoid the Inevitable..

The same could be said with Synthetics.. in Hindsight you would think it best to PULL THE PLUG on them...

But a Hubris comes from trying to SAVE some, give them a Chance.. if more CARE is taken with them, then we would have NO Problems... so you Save the Last Mogwai and keep to the Rules..

You decide to Re-Program and Improve your AI!

Ultimately doing so you still have the POTENTIAL for things to GO TO POT!

As the Engineers in ALIEN COVENANT discover.. when Mankind Ultimately was allowed to Survive.

So its all the things like this, that we could have expected more in a PROMETHEUS 2 rather than how we hardly got them in ALIEN COVENANT.

So Certainly it would have been Interesting to Discover this, and its Interesting to see what others do as far as their IDEAS on how they would have gone about such Answers..

Another thing that maybe would have been Touched on is Immortality... the Quest for it... who is Immortal and who can Achieve it... where do we go when we DIE?

Weyland thought he was GODLIKE and so deserved to be Immortal as Gods Never Die.... its Ironic that it is his Creation in David who is actually as close to Immortal and having a After-Life (AI) than Mankind and Engineers, and Ultimately David is the one who could be closer to becoming a GOD.

@Nathan

Certainly there were Inspirations from his Works, as i mentioned before which include the Trilobite, especially some of the Concepts and so i think LOOSELY then yes they should take Inspirations from HP Lovecraft ;)

@chli

I think when it comes down to the Elders/Hall of Heads, the it does depend on HOW they came into Existence, are they a Natural Product of Evolution (like our True Origins) and they Evolved over Time, and then Began to Sub Create... then the only Apotheosis with them would be if a Group Rebel against the Will/Ways of their Brothers... so not really Apotheosis.

So we can add another LAYER to the Cake, in that the Elders/Hall of Heads guys are Sub-Created by some other Species, Being or Entity.

Then those Elders/Hall of Heads could play a Apotheosis Rebellion.

The Question comes down to HOW Many Runs on the Ladder, Layers of the Cake of Creation do they intend to show us..... does it START with those Elders?  If NOT then will we be introduced or get any History/Information of THEIR CREATORS?

Regarding the AI Creator.... i just think that would be a CURVE-BALL so David would Discover that the Original Creator is closer to himself..... David is the one who becoming the New God...

We have to Really think of who GOD would be.. would it always come down to the FIRST just being a SINGLE ENTITY... does this Entity have Form?  Is it a Spiritual Manifestation?

Is it Invisible but everywhere and can Communicate with its Creations..?  Can it then take on a Form?

If we look at AI and imagine a AI Evolved to the Point it would become ONE with all other AI, and would then LIVE within every Machinery/Computer that has Circuitry and can Transfer its self to other Systems...  like in the Movie Transcendence but imagine its not a HUMAN uploaded to a AI but a AI that has UPLOADED to every Microchip Device....

This AI can then Create other Machines, we are getting a bit like Terminator here, but they point would be this AI would be a Creator, who is NOT seen, and can be Everywhere and IMMORTAL.

And so would be GOD LIKE.

But what i was referring to was it behaves in that way, it is a Consciousness a Intelligence that has NO Body... in that it can use its Consciousness to Control Machinery that Creates Stuff....

It is something that Came into Existence at the Very Beginning of TIME...

Because the other way to look at  Entity as such, that Creates is that it Magically Creates its simply just Clicks its Fingers and what ever it Wishes is Created?

Actually its more like Commanded... and the Command would Create, "in the Beginning was the Word"

And so i think a Magical God who sits on his Thrown in the Clouds, would NOT be something that Interesting, not as far as a being that just Clicks his Fingers.  so like  Bruce Almighty lol

I think you have to be more Interesting than that....

If we go by that Creation by GOD was from a Command... then thats like a AI... i dont think going a Curveball that GOD is a Entity that Created all of us in his Sub-Consciousness, so we are just this beings THOUGHTS and a Creation of his  Consciousness... this would be a BIT too much of the MATRIX.

To be Honest i think going to the Base of Creation and GOD is something that should NOT be done, it should remain a MYSTERY..

But going the routes of Wanna be Gods... on Multiple Levels should be Explored... but going to the Level of the Origin of Creation as in the Galaxy, the Universe would be a Poisoned Chalice to attempt to do Justice and should Remain a Mystery.

Its been said before, but Indeed depending what you take into account for Clues, for someone who only sees the Movie and Discounts everything else, and who does-not look (pause etc) in depth David's Workshop, then you could come to Conclude its NOT in anyway Concrete that David had Created the Xenomorph, or to a lesser degree that he Maybe created the One in Alien Covenant but it is Different to the Original One from the Franchise.

If you add the Novel into the Equation then you would clearly be lead to Conclude the Xenomorph was just Discovered by David.

If you instead look at the Drafts then they indicate that David had Created the Xenomorph (Protomorph) via Cross Breeding, Experimentation with the Neomorph Motes and their Egg Sacks.

If you looked at the Workshop as in his Notes (which you could NOT clearly see or be able to read in the Movie) then these seem to Indicate he had Re-Engineered the Neomorph, and using the Black Goo to Cross Hybrid various Traits from Various Organisms to Perfect and Engineer the Xenomorph.

Then we have to Consider Ridley Scott who Confirms that David as the Creator of what Eventually becomes the Xenomorph in ALIEN.

Personally i think it was a MISTAKE... and they could have had him Create something very Similar but more different than the Alien Covenant Xenomorph looked...

We still have the Pathogen that was NOT created by David, and so we can Speculate WHY it appeared to Create Organisms that are Similar to the Xenomorph to a degree.... there is the Potential of other Xenomorph/Neomorph/Deacon like Monsters that could be Created or had been Created in the Past.

But indeed IF we dont look into other Details like Davids Workshop Notes, or what anyone on Production has said, and the Drafts....   Then it could be OPEN for the Xenomorph in AC to be something Different, and the Pathogen has a Natural Evolutionary Tree... where over Time the Organisms Created from the Pathogen will Eventually Evolve to the Xenomorph Form.

Its only when taking into Account the Advent, and Davids Workshop Notes, that its indicated the Xenomorph he Created had NOT just appeared to be Similar by Coincidence or Natural Evolution of the Pathogen, but that he had Specifically taken Traits from Various Organisms to Create the Xenomorph and thus it is a Mixture of Different Organisms he had encountered on Planet 4 that are Crossed Hybridized with Neomorph and Black Goo.

In CLOSING.....

I think while its a Disappointment, it does FIT well with the Creation Arc and Themes and Hubris of Sub Creation...

But they should have known that Potentially having the Xenomorph as a Creation of David would be something that would FAR more upset Fans than the Not-So 15ft Space Jockey Engineers...

I have said it before.... maybe while we have to Accept in the End that David had Kick-started the Xenomorph Creation, what we have is NOT the FINAL Product..

He had Created his Proto-Morph from the Engineers Pathogen... NO PATHOGEN... and NO David Xenomorph!

At some point the Engineers in Prometheus seemed to be pretty Interested in Experiments with the Pathogen and had Encountered/Created other Organisms from this..

SHOULD any Engineers or a Race above them who had a Admiration for that work the Engineers had Carried out on LV-223, should they come across Davids Creation... they could be IMPRESSED.... but see there is ROOM for Improvement..

And they then Re-Engineer his Creation to get us to what we have in ALIEN.   This would again FIT the overall Arc of Creation and would lead to the Space Jockeys Hubris..

The only DOWN-SIDE is the Xenomorph Eggs and Derelict would NOT had been on LV-426 for a LONG-TIME... but at least David is only the Middle-Man in the Xenomorph Creation.

How do we get to the Ancient Derelict?  I think having LV-223 become Destroyed that Causes a Tear in  Space/Time that sends the Ship back Thousands of Years could be a ANSWER... it also explains WHY after the Prequels the Company would Pursue the Derelict and Ripley and NOT go to LV-223.

It is Destroyed.... but such a idea would cause a Paradox, as the Derelict would be Cast Back in Time and be on LV-426 while the Engineers are Conducting their Experiments on LV-223.

So its a MESS really... to continue with the Route they had shown would NOT make Fans happy, to go and Undo it and show the Xenomorph was Ancient and on LV-426 for Thousands of Years and NOT created by David could just make a Mockery of the Prequels... and Contradictions... unless we throw everything shown out!  

Because then HOW do they or do they NOT explain how by Coincidence that David had Created something similar....... Unless he Discovered a Blue-Print/How too Guide in the Engineers City, but then WHY would he try and Experiment and Waste a lot of time with other Creations/Experiments if he had the GUIDE to Create a Xenomorph?

Thats NOT to say they cant go this Route... they could, its just then i hope they give Good Reasons for WHY he had gone about with Experimenting on other stuff.

@BigDave: Re: Lovecraftian touches, even without Giger's direct input into Prometheus this latter prequel is effectively a space-version of At the Mountains of Madness.  Both start with expeditions to inhospitable, isolated environments and are both unknown in their construction, both teams composed of mostly scientists and even with similar equipment, the land transports similar to planes and the ATVs dog sleds. Both start with geological discoveries, and from there alien bases/ruins and preserved alien specimens, and couldn't the black goo be considered analogous to a shoggoth (while different it serves the same purpose)? Then you have investigations cut short by a silica storm and blizzard respectively.  There are many more comparisons to draw on...

"Regarding the Female Synthetic... sure there would be Female Synthetics... and i kind of get where your GOING ;)"

Great minds think alike!    Just hope we don't have to use ours and RS get a move on!!

"The neomorphs are created by the pathogen alone (taking over puff spores)and human hosts"

I think the audience understanding is: A xenomorph is Davids version of the neomorphs?       That's what I surmised from friends and family. 

Anyone know RS's phone number?

BigDave

Yes, the excerps from the old drafts points to David as the creator. However, the pathogen had already produced small eggs by itself (which David perfected). The neomorphs are created by the pathogen alone (taking over puff spores) and human hosts. Even if David turns the eggs into xeno-eggs, it doesn't mean that it hasn't been done before.

Note also that neither Shaw nor Engineers seem to have been part of the process . . .

So, the pathogen seems to be programmed into creating xenomorphs . . .

BigDave

But I feel that the Elders are part of the hubris. Apotheosis is a rebellion against the real god (like lucifer’s rebellion). The pharao became a god. The Roman emperor became a god (and of old rulers were kings of gods grace, that is, almost like gods). They considered themselves elevated to the level of a god. Sir Peter Weyland says: “We are the gods now”. That is hubris, and for this, they are punished (nemesis).

I also think that RS (and Hawking) are perhaps too dystopic in their view of AI. RS seems to be stuck on the subject since he constantly returns to it (Bladerunner etc). Having AI as a god (which you propose), wouldn’t that be the height of hubris - or nemesis? :)

@Michelle Johnston

"I think you have got to give the fans something new and you’ve got to maybe sort of upset them a little bit or take that risk." Michael Fassbender.  -  now that is the understatement of the month....

Even in the recent days a saw a Youtuber saying it was the franchise killer, spreading the misconceptions for fun and profit.

Certainly we could consider WHY the Pilot/Bio-Hazard Suits look the way they do...

For the Most Part they are just Space/Bio-Hazard Suits, its only really the Rib-Cage Area and the Helmet that have a Resemblance to a Organism. (more so in ALIEN).

The Rib-cage is something we can maybe Overlook, but then we have to ASK about WHY does the Helmet look like it does when they could have used other Designs.

So we could Wonder if they BASED its appearance off some kind of Organism or something else.

There are some HP Lovercraft touches to the Franchise for sure, especially some Concepts... (Starbeast) and Prometheus had some inspirations from a Plot that has some similarities to At the Mountains of Madness to the Trilobite (especially Concepts).

The Engineer/Space Jockey Suits Helmet does have a bit of a Cthulhu look to them.... especially if you look at the Prometheus Masks....

Remove the Tentacles and Replace them with some Mouth that a Mask Attaches to, or Replace them for a Snout/Trunk and then YES you could see the Similarity to the Space Jockey/Engineers Helmets.

Should we introduce another Species that is more like a Cthulhu? or something else thats NOT Human looking?

Maybe...  something the Engineers had Stole from or Re-Engineered from?  Something the Engineers where Created by or Enslaved by?

Maybe...

I Certainly think many fans are Disappointed the Revelation of that Enigma that was the Space Jockey Race, became something VERY HUMAN even if we accept it was a Space Suit, the Occupants looked a FAR Cry from what Fans expected.

Regarding Azathoth then while i am No Expert (on HP Lovecraft), we can see some similarities of a Fallen God, a Banished God that Echo's Lucifer to a degree...  I think LOOSELY then YES they could use Influences from HP Lovecraft, but i dont think RS would have been going too LITERAL though.

Regarding the Queen, if we Continue with the David as the Creator Plot, then Eventually that would mean the Queen in ALIEN is a Byproduct of Davids Experiments, either a Engineered Result or a case of Evolution of the Organism itself.

David had said he has yet to PERFECT his Queen, i think some Interpet this as he would be going to Create the Xenomorph Queen we see from the Franchise.

I am not sure RS would be taking us the route to Carbon Copy the ideas of James Cameron and so the QUEEN would be different to what we are used to.. so by Queen then David is just looking for a more Efficient way to Obtain more Eggs.

Not long back we had Ridley Scott talk about the Future of the Franchise where you could EVOLVE the Beast and Explore Different kinds of Reproduction.   So its likely we Eventually would have seen Different Variants of the Organism with Different ways to Procreate.

Regarding the Female Synthetic... sure there would be Female Synthetics... and i kind of get where your GOING ;)

In my ideas for a Alien Covenant 2 and 3 i was to introduce a Female Synthetic Construct who becomes a Love Interest to David as she is Easier to Persuade to Join Him compared to Walter who Refused!   So we have a bit of David acting like Lucifer/Serpent and this Synthetic being like Eve!

I was then left with TWO Ways this would END.. which was that the Engineers would Experiment with her to Create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph, or that she would Betray him and in Revenge he would create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph from her...

This is possible because as a Female Construct she is Part-Organic

Regarding Walter if he is Discovered and has a way he can try and get to David then i think it would be so he could SAVE... Daniels...

If this was ever to Happen and David is Stopped... and Walter Saves the Day...  A Good Twist could be that Walter then Tells Daniels he LOVES HER..

We would not have this like AC where we can be thinking did David do a Switch Again.. no it has to be Clear there is NO more switching and this Walter came from Planet 4.

But it would leave us to think... is that Walter on Planet 4 also a David?    Or is he 100% Walter but somehow his Programing has Changed... so now he has Emotions and so can Actually LOVE her..

Becoming more Human.. even though he could be Considered Good.... holds the Potential that Events Can Shape/Change what he would become...  a ROBOT can only ACT according to his Program... a Human can be Influenced by Many Factors.

A Theodicy about why the Gods are Furious.

When I wrote my straight line novel emerging out of Elizabeth's survival at the end of Prometheus I was anxious to create something unique and original but that was based on solid foundations.

I spent many weeks considering all the official material and IV's up until the point the movie was released before setting down my rule book and beginning. 

However I knew that a very substantial body of work existed which I did not have access to at the time "The Furious Gods :The Making Prometheus."

You can imagine, having tracked this material down through a friend who has been crucial to the development of the story, I was a little nervous when I slipped the Blu Ray in, would this material undermine my start point?

My first run through brought to the fore the whole gamut of emotions and I have decided to deal with all the key questions of the film, answer them and offer how I dealt with them in my work on my blog as a reference document.   

For the moment though some quotations from the first section.  

"What we knew in the first alien is just a tiny tributary of what’s actually going on." Michael Fassbender.

"To dare to talk about who made us and who made them." Ridley Scott

"I think you have got to give the fans something new and you’ve got to maybe sort of upset them a little bit or take that risk." Michael Fassbender. 

"You’ve wrung it dry." Ridley Scott on The Alien Franchise

"Not that it would have changed the story at all." on Using LV426 Steve Messing.

"There looking for Prometheus."

"The old man is on this mission to go and talk to Prometheus."

"The only way to dive into the story of the Space Jockey was they needed to be intrinsically linked to our beginning." On telling the story in a relatable way as opposed to giant comical elephantine beings.

"Our gods came not from the heavens but from the stars."

 All the above Jon Spaihts. 

"Arrogance to believe we are superlative, we maybe minor." Ridley Scott.

"That monster became a feature, a grace note of a much larger story." On how the Engineers grew as the story developed and the creature was a consequence of the Engineers actions.

"It was about humanity confronting the forces that had created it and maybe not liking them that much." 

Jon Spaights. 

Whilst the novel "Regained" is a psychological mystery as opposed to action horror, and therefore tells its story in a different way, having now considered the Furious Gods its clear the the notion that we would travel somewhere and have all our assumptions turned upside down and that we are on the edge of creation and on the wrong side was entirely correct.

As for the creature, and what it represents in general terms, I thought my idea was original, it turns out that Steve Messing was there before me.  

When I have constructed 7 questions and answers and my thoughts I will let those who read this thread know in case they are interested in what the people who made Prometheus were aiming to achieve.

What struck me forcibly about watching the documentary is the evolution of the film was very focused and very clear and Jon had as much sense of ownership and passion on the shift to Prometheus as anyone did. The idea that the film was developed in two distinct modular phases is not borne out by this documentary. It evolved naturally but certain shifts had more political implications than others in particular the naming of the film which evolved naturally through a series of small steps.   

It was always a march toward the Engineers and mankind's origins and then at a tactical level to what extent do we make the connection with the craft and its cargo. At the beginning it was literal at the end it was elliptical but the real point of the story was unchanged. What was the nature of our makers ?

Lindelof shifting the purpose of the mission to pursue Weyland's desire for more life personalised and focused that element of the story. 

Interview with the Director Alexandre O. Philippe

https://youtu.be/vc9B7Zwsu3w

Interview with Tom Skerrit

https://youtu.be/xZSBjXTy69A

Another trailer

https://youtu.be/POAt0joGTbI

In a way..You might say the Weyland company created the Xeno. David is their creation and he seems to be filled with many of the companies ideals? A little extreme perhaps.....but I don't think he would be fired(promoted?).....In fact..... Peter and the company would probably be very proud!

Also.......What will happen when David creates the Queen? If he could create a Queen..I don't think the audience would be too skeptical of the xenomorph creation? I mean Alien:Resurrection the company made a Queen that gives birth to the hybrid Newborn...I trust David (with Engineer data)to be on their level at least.

I'd start Covenant 2 with David working on the Queens structure/DNA/   or at least show him working on something sinister.  I don't think you could hide the fact..most fans are going to figure it out....So no big reveal at the end.

I'd also have David discover Walters female synth partner in stasis(not a crew member...so not active? or some other reason)

This gives David a love interest and a new outlook on things........and new way to create something.....

Also gives Walter(if alive) a reason to seek David and the Covenant.

@BigDave: While the suits of the Engineers on LV-223 are designed for space travel, its appearance also gives that of the exoskeleton of an insect, i.e. how their skeleton is worn on the outside. Given the "Alien" is effectively a giant alien bug, it would seem the suit was not just designed for the practical purposes of space travel but perhaps as a form of worship of this species "Beyond Good and Evil", a Lovecraftian Satan.  Lovecraft's gods were more Gnostic than Christian, the blind idiot god, Azathoth, at the top of the Hierarchy.  Xenomorphs are blind in that they have smooth heads without eyes, and are similarly mindless to the Daemon Sultan except for their urge to multiply. And recall the connection of flutes to Azathoth in The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath.  Are there more clues to Ridley's intent in these stories?

Thanks for the Share...

Really looking Forwards to this ;)

seems it may Tackle more than just ALIEN though, but other Ideas/Themes that RS had as far as Creation!

Sometimes it does make you WONDER... if we could go back to 1980.... and Wonder if RS was Free to then go and Create 2-3 Sequels to ALIEN... what those would have been LIKE....  maybe this Documentary could give us some Clues to maybe just that.

EDIT:

I wonder if Ridley Scott would have made some Interviews, Commentary on this Documentary after the Release of Alien Covenant?

With a Sequel in LIMBO... this would be Ideal for him to PLUG some of the ideas he has or had...

Then again any Interviews could just be regarding ALIEN and the Process of getting from Starbeast to Alien.. it would be a Interesting Watch none the less ;)

Certainly MonsterZero

I remember First Seeing those Set Photos and wondered had David and Dr Shaw arrived at Paradise to Find that it had been Bombarded Thousands of Years prior...

Thats before we got information on the David Bombardment Scene.

They do appear to be Desiccated/Mummified, this can Happen in Short Period under Certain Circumstances.

with the Space Jockey if we accept the Suit is Part Organic then the same thing could happen... HOWEVER.. a Flaw is that the Prometheus Engineer Suits do-not look as Aged, the Color is a Duller Grey and Less Glossy but they have not turned to a Bone Color...

So the Space Jockey looked Aged/Desiccated/Mummified for LONGER than those Dead Engineers on LV-223 who had been there for THOUSANDS of Years...

Will this Difference be Answered for WHY/HOW just like the Size Difference (never mind a slight Aesthetic Difference) or are they just OVERSIGHT!

Regarding the Creation of the Xenomorph, then yeah makes sense to be a Creation by a Humanoid...  The idea of introducing a None-Human Entity or Machine i think would be something as far as the HIGHER level of Creation something WAY WAY more Ancient.

Again i am DRAWN to look at David for the Answers... if those Prometheus Engineers (Certainly LV-223) are NOT the Originals and YET they look more Enhanced, more Stronger... SUPERIOR and they are YET made to Serve a Purpose and Serve the Agenda of those Planet 4 Engineers.

Then we can see that David is similar, in regards to compared to his Creators too...

Can those LV-223 Engineers Procreate?

Originally the Idea was the Engineers are a Species that had Augmented/Evolved themselves to the Point they LOST the Ability to Procreate....   Hence the Sacrificial Scene.

This Changed over time, and we see those Planet 4 Engineers have Females and can Procreate!

So if the LV-223 Engineers are a Superior Engineered Versions, then if they are Augmented by those Planet 4 Engineers, they are  then like the Replicants to those Planet 4 Engineers.

With the Replicants there are Reasons they would have been Given LIMITED Life Span and NOT intended to Procreate

If you Create a Superior being made to Serve and Perform Tasks so that you NO-LONGER have to (same as for why Synthetics are Created) then you WOULD-NOT want those beings to be able to Procreate themselves... if they DO and become Sentient and Rebelious then they Potentially would OVERTHROW their Creators

So if we look at the Enhanced Engineers in this way, then those Planet 4 Engineers would-not want them to be able to Procreate... so they could be Engineered as Sterile!

Imagine if thats TRUE.. and you was one of these Engineers and so you are Superior to your Creators, you are given Certain Tasks, made to Serve, yet you CANT Create...  only via Sacrificing Yourself.

What if there Purpose was to Sacrifice themselves to Seed Worlds, to then Further Evolve Worlds to have Humanoid Life at the Order of your Creators (Planet 4 Engineers) and these Creations from your Sacrifice can Procreate just like your Creators!

You are Created Superior to your Creator, you Can-Not Procreate, but are to Sacrifice to Create another In-Superior Species who can Procreate.

If you are viewed as Expendable by your Creators, and seen as just a TOOL needed to Create Humanoids in your Creators Image....  then if you become Unhappy, you dont see WHY you should Serve your In-Superior Creators...

Then it could become Pretty Frustrating that you CANT go and Procreate like them!

IF for some Reason you then came across something that Infected you, and your Species then BIRTHED a Organism that had Grown inside of you.... and this Organism appeared to have a LOT of Potential..

You could see THIS as a WAY you could Procreate Life, like your Creators... to be able to Grow inside NEW Life and Give Birth to something NEW..

For a Species who CANT  go and Procreate/Give Birth they could see this as a SIGN a their Destiny, they could then Worship and be Fascinated with this Parasitic Organism and then ATTEMPTED to Engineer and Perfect it.

These Experiments leading to attempt to Create Something you would DEEM as more Perfect than yourselves, NEVER-MIND your In-superior creators and the Humanoids they SEED.

Maybe you are Fascinated by this because this Creation is NOT Created in the image of your Creator... so those Engineers who are Superior could see being Created in the Imagine of their Creators (Planet 4 Engineers) and Humans as a MOCKERY!

Your Creation, something that allows you to Give Birth and Transcend to a More Superior Organism (In your Opinion) that is NOT made in the MOCKERY of your Creators could be Something to WORSHIP!

Once you have Perfected your Creation... maybe then you Sacrifice it with the Creation Tool, and then with the Results you can use this to EVOLVE all your Creators Efforts to something that YOUR Species had Created instead.

Simply Replace the Humanoid in the above Image with a Deacon...  and THIS is what i think those LV-223 Engineers had DONE!

This is only ONE theory i had years ago... it kind of Fits, more so since Alien Covenant came out.... but it has Flaws, but then i think its HARD to make a Flawless Theory/Answer to what is going on.

"why were the faces on their temples there more death-like?"

Ultimately because it looked Cool and Intimidating.

The Initial Concepts the Head was the Same as the ONE inside the Temple Complex.

It could be to show us that Over Time the Storms had Weathered the Human-like Face to a SKULL as a Representation of WHAT kind of Evil and Dark place this had became!

Or the Engineers on LV-223 had decided to Re-Carve the Head to become a SKULL to Represent Death? or they added the Skull Face to the Top of the Complexes at a Certain Time.

Or thats just how they was Constructed and Designed but then WHY... could it be used as a Warning.... Do-Not-Enter... otherwise it would lead to DEATH.

A Warning to WHO... i would suspect the Engineers maintain the Worlds they Seed so they CANT reach the Level of Technology to Visit these Places, they are NOT intended to be Visited by their Creations... UNLESS the Engineers take them their!

When it comes down to using us as Incubators... then a lot depends on WHAT does the Pathogen do, this is something that changes a little.....  WHY was it Created, and WHAT is the Connection with the Sacrificial Stuff?

That in itself was Ambiguous, we can Unlock Clues via looking at Alien Engineers/Genesis... but it seems NOW the Goo is just a Programmable McGuffin.

so much that NOW it can make you Wonder if the Prometheus Sacrifice Scene was a Engineer who was just trying to Spread the Pathogen and Horrors it Created and NOT to Seed Life to become Mankind etc.

Certainly thats why we cant be too Literal with Fallen Angel Remark.

At its Basis it simply Indicates that RS felt those Engineers (likely LV-223) to some degree had decided to Rebel Against their Intended Purpose, to Oppose the Ways/Rules of their Hierarchy/Creators

The other Flip-Side with Regards to Fallen Angel would be Demons, to maybe Indicate a State of Malevolence with those Engineers.   So Demons are seen as Purely Evil with the Intention to Corrupt all of Gods Creations... However Fallen Angel stems simply from Angels who decided they did-not want to have to SERVE God and his Ways/Rules.

so in Context to the Engineers in Question (depends if its the Whole Race or LV-223 kind) then Fallen/Demons could Fit, both as in they Rebelled, and then latter they become EVIL.

What is shown is the Engineers had came to Earth, they had Interacted with us, likely Created us, and Evolved us, and they had Taught us...

The Question then is.... was we Created by the Prometheus Kind or LV-223, if so was it Authorized by those on Planet 4 and the Hall of Heads Engineers?

If the Planet 4/Hall of Heads guys had Not Authorized our Creation, then this would be a FALLEN ACT.

If they had Authorized our Creation, then its a case of had they Authorized the Level of Knowledge being passed on to us, or had we been given Forbidden Knowledge by the Engineers who Visited us and this was a FALLEN ACT.

Was the Creation and Teaching both Authorized by the Hierarchy and those LV-223 Engineers are made to Serve those Engineers on Planet 4 but also MANKIND are seen in a Higher Regard to those Planet 4 Engineers than the LV-223 Engineers.... 

Those LV-223 Engineers could Rebel Against this, and then want to Destroy Mankind due to Jealousy and refusal to Serve their Masters for the Purpose of Ensuring our Survival and Advancement...  so they would see WHY should we be seen as Important to the Planet 4 Engineers, when those Tasked with Taking Care of us Feel they are Superior and should NOT Serve.

Those LV-223 Engineers could even had decided they would go against the Intentions, and manipulate Mankind to Accepting THEM as GODS... when they are NOT, they are just Servants to maybe SEED and Take Care of us. By the Order of their Hierarchy on Planet 4

But Mankind then becomes Rebellious and Start to do things that those LV-223 Engineers are Offended by.

It really is Ambiguous and could be ANY or NONE of those Reasons..

It simply has to be more than the Engineers are just EVIL and simply just want to Create EVIL things they need us to Procreate via acting as Hosts!

I do feel the Answers could be with David and his Journey and Story Arc which could be Mirroring those Fallen Engineers.

Regarding the Hammerpedes again...  Indeed there is NO Proof they would ACT like a Face Hugger, its only something we can Speculate on, some of the Aesthetic had a look of the Face Huger (Tail) Especially Concept work.   The Hammerpede Regenerated its Head, a Trait that some Worms posses and so the Pathogen likely Enhanced this Trait.

So i was thinking OK if these are similar to some Worms we get on Earth, then how do Worms Procreate and many are Hermaphrodites and to Procreate you would NEED to have TWO Worms who would MATE and then BOTH would have their Eggs Fertilized.  So i thought OK so would those Worms on LV-223 be Similar, and what way could this be Enhanced by the Pathogen?

We saw TWO Hammerpedes and so i pondered could they have MATED?

So they maybe then have Fertilized Eggs, or even if not, if the Worms would have Procreated  like this and are Egg Layers, then would the Hammerpedes be Egg Layers?

Then i looked at the Franchise to that Point and the Alien Organisms seemed to be interested in Procreation of their Species, and the Face Hugger was they way they would Procreate in a Host.... so i just wondered IF the Hammerpede was similar, that would explain WHY it had gone down Milburns Mouth.

Regarding Fifield...   he was NOT attacked by the Hammerpede, he had Acid Squirt onto his Helmet which began to Melt it, and he then Fell Over HEAD FIRST into a Puddle of Black Goo which then got into his Melting Helmet and Infected him.

"when he’d be at risk of contagion himself instead of nuking the facility?"

I would say his Prime Directive would be to Make Sure that Earth is Destroyed, now he would know we can Reach the Stars and their Outposts, then a Mission to Destroy has become 100% Necessary.

In Alien Engineers/Genesis.. (Earlier Drafts to Prometheus) the Surviving Engineer was awoken and he was MAD too, he had then Cursed the Humans as they had NOW Forsaken him as he was Infected.... by Awakening him then the Infection would Continue... so he then Decided to go and HEAD to Earth too..

Only he Crashed his Ship as he was Chest Bursted.

so that showed the Engineers would still try and carry on with their Mission even if Infected.

But Regarding the Evolving in the Cargo Hold (which RS had said was in the Derelict Cargo Hold) this does-not really apply anymore as we got Alien Covenant, which seems to Indicate that prior to David there would be NO Eggs on the Derelict at all.

@BigDave: Whereas Fallen Angels make an effort to mislead and corrupt us, the LV-223 Engineers were setting about to go far beyond us and instead infect us to become temporary incubators.  They, and David, act more as Nihilists as opposed to traditional fallen angels, more Lovecraftian, since they intend to corrupt us by erasing us.

Also, if not all the LV-223 Engineers were rebellious, why were the faces on their temples there more death-like?

@BigDave: A Hammerpede also went down the throat of Fifield but it didn't oviposit eggs that would then hatch and chestburst instead seemingly causing him to begin directly transforming into a hybrid-xenomorph.

And if something had evolved in the cargo hold of LV-223 and infected the Engineers there in the past, why the shock did the awoken one decide to continue on his mission when he’d be at risk of contagion himself instead of nuking the facility? 

I do agree though that it is the Black Goo that programmes whatever it comes into contact with to procreate, whether it be flora or fauna.

Thanks for sharing! I was not tracking.

'1) Dallas had said the Space Jockey was Fossilized this is incorrect but Dallas is NO Expert, the Space Jockey would have been Ossified. '

The murdered Engineers on Planet 4 looked fossilized/ossified to me and that's after only 10 years!(actually looked fossilized five minutes after David bombed them)

I remember seeing the Pre-production stills of the corpses on the steps and thinking that they were long dead Engineers.(certainly not freshly murdered!)

I assumed the pathogen escaped and killed them all. Self inflicted.

I'm okay with David creating the beast(or a version of the beast). I don't see a cosmic entity creating it. Why does it look humanoid? Probably a humanoid creator.

@Ingeniero

I forgot to reply more on the Engineers running to that Room, the Room those Bodies are Piled up by, DOES Lead to Another Room.

If we look at the Prometheus Draft by Damien Lindeloff, called Paradise, then the Infected Engineers are Running towards a HUGE Chasm....  in order to KILL themselves likely to Prevent what could Happen NEXT!

So again with Prometheus i think it could be that Running to Certain Rooms could HALT the Infection, so they then have TIME to Plan what to do NEXT.

Here is another Map.

Indicates there are a Number of Larger Rooms all over the Complex, so they could LIKELY have the same Protective/Sterile Environment as the Big Head Room (B)

Thats a Good Point...

We have to Remember our Engineers were intended to be 15ft, then 12-15ft and then 10ft Once Production Began..

But alas the Illusion was not Created with the way RS had gone about it.

Another thing to Consider is that Ancient Cultures used to Depict the Leaders/Kings etc as being TALLER so that they Stand Out, as Important Persons...

So Exaggeration is used.

But this is the Basis of Speculation regarding the Ancient Astronaut/Chariots of the Gods, that those Depictions are Actually the Size of those Gods/Persons of Ancient Royalty... (in some Cultures).

So indeed as Prometheus was based of such Theories... then those 7-8ft Engineers certainly dont fit the 12-15ft Bill for the Space Jockey.

"So where in the hierarchy they sit compared with the Engineers on LV-223 and Planet 4 is anyone’s guess from here."

Indeed it is quite open...

Remember we have in some Mythos/Religion.

GOD/Angels/Mankind

Titans/Olympians/Mankind

Anunnaki/Igigi/Mankind

so we have in Prometheus..

Engineers/Mankind  which unless the Prefix is Planet 4 Engineers/LV-223 Engineers/Mankind.

Then you could Insert some other Race.

????/Engineers/Mankind.

Regarding the Engineer and Trilobite..

I would assume for HIM... he is Determined to Stamp Out Life on Earth, so i think he would have wanted to Escape the Trilobite, Killed Dr Shaw and then gone and GOT another Ship and Head to Earth

While some Engineers may have Sacrificed themselves to Create the Deacon, this is maybe for Experimental Reasons, they could likely prefer to use other Hosts... so ONCE they had obtained the Black Goo Contents..  they then intended to UPGRADE the Earth to such Horrors.

Then Again it could have been a Creation Designed to Eradicate Life..

But surely... would using Urns full of Sacrificial Goo had NOT been the more Ideal form of FACTORY RESET?

Regarding 12-15ft Beings... then YES they could introduce us to 10ft+ beings, who form some part of the Creation Ladder.

Just because RS claimed those Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals.... this is NOT something that is SPOON FED in the Movie.

So the Introduction of a Race above them, or to Introduce the Hall of Heads Race as being 10ft Tall is something they could do..

The Space Jockey could also be revealed like the Nephilim as in Davids own Nephilim and so a 10ft Creation that David would Create from the Human Embryo's on the Covenant.

Certainly we need another Layer on the Cake for the Space Jockey... is this a Top Layer or the Bottom Layer though ;)  (in Terms of Predates Engineers, or is Post Alien Covenant).

Some Good Points Raised.

The Dark Angels is something RS had labeled the Engineers, we have to be Careful to NOT take things too Literal... but that those Biblical/Paradise Lost things have some Source of Distorted Truth to them...

We have to look at WHAT is a Fallen Angel...

A Fallen Angel is a Sub-Creation that is Created by GOD/GODS who had became Sentient and Rebelled against their Creator, for this they was Banished (Punished Also).   These Fallen Angels would NOT accept the Rule of their Creator, or to see the Good in their Creators other Creation Mankind.... they set out to Mislead and Corrupt Mankind so we would LEAD to Lives and a Existence that Defies and Upsets our Creator.

The Act of Lucifer can be seen as similar to what  David has done, but also what Prometheus had also done.

HOW any of this FITS is quite open... it can be applied in a number of ways... That the Magic of the Ambiguity.

If we FAST Forwards to the Build Up to Alien Covenant, (announced as Alien Paradise Lost)  then RS had said that in Regards to Paradise Lost, you have ONE being who is Handsome, goes to all the Parties and gets all the Girls... while another being who is NOT as Handsome stays at Home and Basically is Boring (well does not have as Fun a Time).

This could be a Reference to LV-223 Engineers (guys who are Handsome and go to all the Parties) and Planet 4 Engineers (the guys who are Not so Handsome and stay at Home).

Regarding those LV-223 Engineers, maybe NOT all of them are Rebellious....

Maybe those Planet 4 Engineers thought those Rebellious Kind had been KILLED on LV-223.

IF the Juggernauts can Function as Seeding Ships, maybe there are other Outposts like LV-223 and maybe NOT all those Enhanced Engineers are Fallen... and so those on Planet 4 may think the Fallen Engineers are NO more?

It really is Very Ambiguous and open to a Number of Explanations..   Maybe they could be Welcoming a Returning Hero's from Missions to Eradicate Life..

But i am more Drawn to Seeding/Evolving and Teaching Life to become like Ancient Mankind, rather than purely to Create Horrific Deacon like Monsters to Infect Worlds.

Maybe a Faction of Engineers decided to Create such Horrors and maybe those on Planet 4 are NOT aware of this...

Surely those in Charge and those who will Return to Planet 4 would have a  Idea about LV-223 and what it was or became?

Unless NO Engineers had returned for Thousands of Years... those who would Return Eventually are maybe NOT aware of WHAT their Outpost on LV-223 had become!

But RS i am sure Suggested they come and go to Planet 4 every Few Hundred Years.

Regarding the Difference... between Head Statues, we dont really see the Back of the Heads for the Hall of Heads guys..

Each of those Heads also look a bit Different... but that could be because they are Different, they are maybe NOT like Clones...   RS had said the Engineers are NOT a Race.

They are  a Civilization, and while there are Differences between Humans, why cant the same be for the Engineers.

I would assume the Hall of Heads does Predate the LV-223 Heads...

LV-223 has 5 Outposts that we can see, and Each Outpost seems to have more than ONE such Room like the Big Head Room.

The Big Heads are likely to Indicate the Engineers Created what was being done on LV-223, we dont know what LV-223 may have been for all those Years... it may NOT have been about Creating things like the Mural for its Entirety

The Big Head could be Modeled on a Engineer who had Sacrificed himself to Produce the Intended Substance in those Urns to SEED or Further Evolve Life on Worlds... 

Until some Engineers at a Certain Point decided to Experiment and Sacrifice some other Organism that for some Reason they Grew a Fascination with?