New Replies (Page 231)

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I dont think Rebooting anything would be ideal...

The Prequels should remain, you can in further movies CHANGE some of the things they opened up as the Prequels are Ambiguous, more so Prometheus.

We have only be shown a Few Things as FACT.... Dr Shaw is Dead... as a example (but there could be work around).

But we have not yet been shown the Moment the Eggs get on the Derelict, and so its not SET IN STONE.. that the Xenomorphs are Created by David, and the Engineers are the Space Jockey, not as in context to what we have been shown in the Movies.

Directors Comments and Intended Path prior to Changes, dont really 100% count as they are subject to Change... by that 4+ Years ago the Xenomorph was a Creation of the Engineers that was Thousands of Years Old.

So instead of Rebooting the Prequels they can just use other movies to Elevate and Change the Plot.

This is similar to what they did with the David Creates the Xenomorph Curve-ball, which in Hindsight must be a Mistake as its certainly something i feel only a SMALL % of Fans are pleased with..

This can be Subject to Change.

I do agree that while the Franchise can go the Xenomorph for a Few More Rounds, i think Ellen Ripley has had her DAY!   However if they are to bring her back i think they have to make it a sequel to Alien Resurrection.

But there is a Fanbase/Market that would want to see the Gang Back and have a Cameron's Aliens 2, 3 and 4 etc... I think Hard Core ALIENS Fans (means those who really like the Movie, but also could like the others).  I feel a Majority of them would NOT mind a Blomkamps Alien 5

And i think Disney may see such a route as the Less Risk, more chance of making Money...  Nostalgia SELLS!

If they go this route i guess we can either Boycot those Movies, or Watch them on their own Merits but still accept Alien 3 on-wards as your own Personal Canon.

I just think there is a lot more to the Engineers Plot, that does-not have to restrict to them being used as they are in the Dark Horse Comics.

I certainly think it would be interesting to see more of their Technology, there was a lot of Good Concept work as far as Engineer Technology/Worlds that was done for Prometheus, but this was Toned Down somewhat for the Movie, and almost completely gone in Alien Covenant.

We dont have to see the Black Goo as per Bio-Weapon, it would be interesting to Explore it as the Creation Tool which is maybe what its Original Use was, and then maybe see what difference there is (Sacrificial/Black Goo) but its likely the same substance that can be used in different ways.

Dont get me wrong for all the Philosophical Thought Provoking Creation Plot, and Chariots of the Gods, i feel ANY expanded Spin Off would have to have its share of Horror and at some-point Action Scenes.

so some elements of Engineer Technology as far as Weapons and their use would be something to be explored, but i dont think it would SOLELY have to be based on this take on the Engineers, like the Comics seem to do.

I cant really see how you made that Comparison?  Maybe its as i put below?

I do accept that we saw the Engineer wake up and attack the Crew of the Prometheus, but he only killed Weyland, Ford and the One Mercenary (David to a degree) and all with his Bare Hands, so we never saw no real Predator Technology.

My point being that i feel Disney are more likely to revisit our Engineers (if they do) more in context to the Comics that they appeared in, were we would see them portrayed similar to Predators in 7-8ft Guys using Technology/Weapons and Hand to Hand Combat to dispatch of Humans and XENOMORPHS and so by that i mean more of a Action Role, and NOT much about their History or all the Gods stuff.... they would likely be shown as 7-8ft Angry Vengeful beings intend on Eradicating Humans and Tearing up Xenomorph Ass!

I can see AVP was like Prometheus in context to the Ancient interaction with Mankind, Undiscovered Temples that Xenomorph (Black Goo) awaits for  the Foolish Human Explorers.

What i mean by AVP was in General as far as the Franchise (Games, Comics) are Action Based, Xenomorph vs Predators in Combat, its also WHY i think Disney would rather go the route of a ALIEN movie thats more Action and Run/Shoot Orientated.

I think Disney would see that Action Sells and so there is more chance of a Aliens/Alien Resurrection type Alien Movie, than a Alien, Alien 3 and Alien Covenant for example.

Nothing wrong with what some would call PopCorn Action, i feel the Alien Franchise has much more to offer than the Gung Hoo Action Route, but a few in this Style would not Hurt, but i feel there is only so many times you can keep doing this, and even with Alien/Alien 3 i think the Franchise is BIGGER than the Xenomorph as far as a expanded route.

In Hindsight i think they needed to had done TWO Prometheus Sequels.... one to LV-223 where we could have a more Action and Alieny Vibe, have Xenomorphs or similar and more Clues to LV-426.  Then another that followed Dr Shaw and David could have gone off and done its OWN thing and steered away from ALIEN.

Dont get me wrong, when viewed on its own and Not-Canon i think the First AVP is actually a decent Popcorn Action Flick, i think Aliens is the better one (to some degree, as far as better OVERALL movie).

so we are more likely to explore the Engineers in some kind of AVP like Movie, where we replace the Predators with Engineers.  So Fans can see Engineers purely shown as Bad Asses who use their Superior Technology against Humans and Xenomorphs... so Yeah! just like the Predators.

Like Prometheus, right? :)

I think Ridley Scott had BIGGER/BOLDER intentions/dreams than just that ;)

May be, may be, but Prometheus already looks like AvP.

The description definitely helped. Otherwise I thought it was a bit abstract and the end seemed Matrixy somehow. Another viewer said " That’s how I feel when I walk up to the TSA line with my luggage". Most shorts have descriptions.

Certainly Thoughts_Dreams we have to go back to ALIEN as the Kick Starter to the Franchise, and we had the Xenomorph explored in Future Movies but NONE ever went back to expand on WHO the Space Jockey was and WHY that Cargo.  The Space Jockey Scene was Enigmatic this Species, his Technology their History and Agenda are something to be explored...   The Xenomorph was considered a Bio-Weapon throughout most the Franchise and in Ridley Scotts Eyes, and so it was a case of ONCE you explained WHY this Bio-Weapon was Created and what for, then what do you do NEXT?

More Eggs, more Weyland-Yutani Conspiracy? The Plot of the Prequels which includes Alien Engineers does-not solely rely on showing us all these Space Jockey/Engineers do is Create Bio-Weapons to just KILL off Folk!

The Galactic Gardeners of Space Plot opens up a WHOLE Universe of possibilities and i think this is what Ridley Scott was aiming for, so that Prometheus would act as a Bridge... it would loosely link to ALIEN but then allow a sequel that would be Totally Different to the ALIEN Franchise.

Alien Covenant should not cause any Problems for exploring the Engineers and who created them, what else did they or their creators create..  This is by Virtue of a Few Things.

*The Engineers and their Origins/Hierarchy are ANCIENT, and could have Many Layers who Origins Span Millions, a Billion or so Years.

*The Engineers and their Hierarchy (Creators) have likely Seeded Life and Created Life Across the Galaxy (never mind other Galaxies), if Humanoids are a near Perfect Desired Project you dont Scrap it to Start Again...   David proved Flawed... did Weyland-Yutani just Scrap having AI/Robots?

*The Galaxy is Large its like about 100'00 Light Years from Side to Side, the Center of the Galaxy is 25'000 Light Years from Earth.  Within the Franchise it appears such Interstellar Distances are BEYOND what Mankind can Achieve in the 2100-2300 but certainly not for Engineer Technology that is perhaps Millions if not MORE Older can traverse!

*If we ASSUME there are other Humanoid Worlds in the Galaxy, we cant assume everyone is at a similar Stage to out own.  some Worlds could be Much Younger, with some Humanoid Species that are Stone Men....  some Worlds could have Evolved to past what we have Today, or in the Alien Franchise, but they achieved this Tens of Thousands of Years ago, or More and are SIMPLY.... No More!

So the Engineers are unlikely to ONLY had interacted with and located on Earth, LV-223 and Planet 4...  so indeed we can have a expanded Franchise thats ONLY connection to ALIEN is the Engineers/Space Jockey in that this Race had also maybe Created Mankind and at very least Interacted with us.

No need for Earth (could have flash backs to our Past) or be set Hundreds of years in the Future, No Need for Xenomorphs, David etc etc.

Star Wars has Humans... yet it is NOT set in our Galaxy, a number of other TV Franchises likewise (Caprica/Battle Star Galactics)

There could be Interactions between the Engineers/Humans from these Distant Places and Earth, these could be done in Flash Backs/Set in our Distant Past.... or a Future Interaction Set after the EVENTS of Alien Resurrection, but we dont really need to have them interact.

Such a Expansion would not have to be Restricted to ALIEN, and so would have a lot of Freedom to cover many things.

We could be shown a Distant Human Colony (Colonies) came from the Engineers visiting Earth in the Ancient Past and taking some of us to other Worlds...  or it could be shown that out Origins came from a FAR away place and we are just one of many Colonies of Humans and we came from another Place Many Many Thousands of Years ago.

However... to be honest its unlikely we shall see such Ventures, i do feel that Disney would want to Maintain the Alien Franchise and have it all CONNECT together, so we are more likely to explore the Engineers in some kind of AVP like Movie, where we replace the Predators with Engineers.  So Fans can see Engineers purely shown as Bad Asses who use their Superior Technology against Humans and Xenomorphs... so Yeah! just like the Predators.

I think Ridley Scott had BIGGER/BOLDER intentions/dreams than just that ;)

About Ripley she had her time, she did great in Alien 1, 2, and 3 but it went into crap with AR. The prequels are disappointing about at least they are not about Ripley. Try to make good characters and try new ones instead of bringing up the same old character again.

Maybe they could have some Ripley adventures in a novel or what ever but not in a movie. Sooner or later it will become old and will probably tarnish the legacy of Ripley. Let her be and do not make it into a parody. Even if someone somewhere say that “well we can still try to respect her as a character” I would say that it will be repetitive make something new.

I would not be against them rebooting the prequels because they are disappointing anyways but don’t reboot any of the original 3.

Visually it was good but if this was not mentioned then I would not have a clue what it was about.

"A story of emotional weight one carries within, and the hardships when striving to rid oneself of it."

It is alright, maybe they are wondering what they will do with the franchise. The short-films were better than Covenant and I do not care for David 3. Perhaps they are wondering about what direction to go, I think that is a smart thing.

Sure it seems like an interesting idea, I would like to see more about the Engineers. It should be clear that it is a part of the Alien-franchise but not be about the Xenos and include the human journey. We have not had any great human characters since alien 3 which is why the rest have failed which is not to say that there have not been some interesting ones after Alien 3 but as a whole they have failed.

We could see new planets because they would probably look different and see the results of what the Engineers have done there (gardeners of space). I would like to see the tools that they have to create life but those tools should not be explained. I would also like to see it explained what the difference between the Engineer in Prometheus and the Engineers in AC are about, I am still thinking about this. We have debated this but we have not had any explanation about this on the screen. Do they have different looking ship or do they all look like the Juggernaut and the Derelict. What are the different ones that they have? Are the Engineers something that just showed or up or are they made to serve an agenda and if so by who?

I do not care about another David movie, they destroyed that in Alien Covenant. Screw that

"… they would maybe NOT have to Speak a Human Language, they could speak a Ancient One, and all we have to show is them speaking in a Ancient/Alien Dialect for a Short while with Subtitles…"

Well we have the Hobbits in the Lord of the Rings so they are technically not humans and that worked.

I don’t like the idea that mankind is older than the Engineers. I like the idea that they made us or something similar or at least that is better. Maybe something higher up in the hierarchy made both the Engineers and mankind, that could work.

I like the idea of the black goo, it is just that AC messed it up a bit.

Here is something related to ichneumonid wasps since I think that they had something to do with the Egg-morph:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303956327_The_Braconid_and_Ichneumonid_Parasitoid_Wasps_Biology_Systematics_Evolution_and_Ecology/download

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3497088/

https://nature.mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/ichneumon-wasps

I do not know that much about it but I thought that I could post it here for the discussion if anyone is interested.

I think when looking at how things could expand...

While Ridley Mentioned the Engineers predate us, it does-not mean they Created us, this comment by RS was interesting. “You’ve got to go back and find those engineers and see what they are thinking. If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where’s the big boy?”

While this more likely indicates the Engineers Created us, it does seem to indicate that their is another Being, Species or something Else (that is Intelligent) that could be above the Engineers.

When i was working on my ideas for Prometheus Sequels, i was going to have it that David and Dr Shaw go to place VERY FAR away, and for example if it was indicated as below, then this would be about 40'000 LY from Earth.

They discover a world that had Engineers, but also 2-3 other Variants of Humanoids, ONE being Humans.  At first David would have to Translate, but Dr Shaw could Communicate a little as she understood some Ancient Languages from her Research.   Realizing she could speak a bit of some Ancient Language i was to have it where the Engineers or a Humanoid use a Device or something that allows Dr Shaw to then be able to Understand the more common Language that this World Uses...  I was to have the Engineers become concerned when the Humanoids became interested in her Faith/Beliefs, which is when the Engineers would have to Act to take her away from being a Influence.  The Engineers who have NO Concern about our System are at First Intrigued and Curious but this does turn to Concern and Irritation... i then had a few ways things could have Gone Next... which would have involved either Dr Shaw becoming Tortured/Experimented and Punished, with David coming to her AID and causing Chaos for the Engineers World, or the Engineers Turn on Both of them but David offers them a Covenant, and throws Dr Shaw under the Bus so to speak.

While i am not suggesting this Exact Plot should have been the ROUTE to have taken the Prometheus Sequel, i think it Certainly should have gone this way to a degree (off to a World that is FAR FAR Away) this would have NOT had the Odyssey of Dr Shaw and David conflict with the Alien Franchise or Connect.

The Problem of Needing Human Characters could be FIXED by similar to what i suggested, which is if the Engineers are our Forerunners, then its likely other Worlds they play a Active Role in would speak some of the Ancient Languages we had on Earth.

I think when giving us Alien Covenant, i think it was a bit too Lazy and a Coincidence our Engineers Home-World is SO CLOSE to Earth, and i find it Unlikely that Earth is the only place with Humans or near enough Humans that the Engineers play a Active Role in Interacting with.

If David or Dr Shaw survive their Odyssey or certainly cause Major Trouble, then being so FAR away from our System could allow them or Engineers to come back to Our System at some-point after the EVENTS of Alien Resurrection.  Giving us maybe a War of the Worlds that would NOT have to Conflict with the Alien Franchise Time-Line of 2093-2179 at Least.

But what is Done is Done.... (i understand WHY some things had to be how they was due to a Direct Plot to Alien and Xenomorph Origins)

However as a Expanded Universe we could go to FAR Away Engineer/Human Worlds and have a Separate Franchise that would not Conflict with the Alien Franchise at all.

Such a Expanded Universe would not have to Limit Itself to the Alien Franchise, Earth, Weyland-Yutani or the Xenomorph for example.

Want to TIE them in down the Line... maybe a Future Earth Mission does Travel FAR FAR away and Discover the Engineers again, and then we can explore what would happen in this case.   Or the Engineers or some of the Humans could leave FAR FAR away and arrive in Systems that Mankind Occupy and regardless these events could happen past the Time-Line of Alien Resurrection.

Subscribed so i can check some of them out...

Seemed very well done for a Small Budget.

I did see a little of one of the Engineer Concepts in the Design of the Character. (cant find one i am on about, will try latter).

Edit Found it.

@Leto

We certainly could be thrown a Curve-Ball.... and having it that we Pre-Date the Engineers would certainly FIT this, thus they came from US....  the Concept Work for the Cathedral Dome on Planet 4 was Interesting as Steve Messing and Wayne Haagg did their own where BOTH had the same Building and BOTH had Human looking beings and NOT Engineers. It would be interesting to get some answers of either of those two ;)  The source i had indicated Mankind was the Bigger role NOT the Engineers as far as Xenomorph goes. Also that we was like 5th Generation of Mankind.

So indeed Engineers Origins come from US would be a Curve-ball...    Maybe Mankind and Engineers were created by a Different Race, where Mankind could have been Created First?

I think there certainly is scope to adjust the Hierarchy/Levels of Creation and THROW a Curve-Ball.  Even the Masters as being Machines could be another Curve-Ball.

some Interesting comments, and the Black Goo/Origins could be something to EXPAND upon, but i think the Potential is FAR beyond even this Element (The Goo) i think the Franchise as far as Prometheus could open the Possibilities to explore Various Races, not limited to a Handful and not Limited to being Human-Like the Franchise should NOT be limited to exploring Black Goo Monsters related to the Xenomorph/Deacon, as that could be covered in Expanded ALIEN Movies.

I also think even if we explore Humans, i feel we dont have to revolve around Humans from Earth, as in context to the Prometheus PLOT, i feel its pretty limited to Center around Mankind from Earth.. Sure maybe Humans could Predate Engineers, but if so i think having it that Humans Originate from Earth as Limiting!

To have the Franchise Limited to say Humans, Engineers (both Alien Covenant and Prometheus kinds) would be a bit Limited, and especially if we are looking at these in Context to within a 200 LY distance from Earth.

Prometheus opened up a Potential to Go Beyond even our Galaxy.... Alien Covenant condensed everything to being set within 50LY (up to 300/400LY) of Earth and revolve around David and the Xenomorph...

The Scope is MUCH Larger than those ;)

PS... the Area in Green on that Map would Span about 3000 LY, and the Yellow about 1500LY and so by Virtue of the Engineers Star Maps it shows the Explored Galaxy of the Alien Franchise is a Drop in the Ocean to what the Engineers have potentially Explored/Could Reach.

Building on most ideas above: The Engineers are their own beings. They create things- much like the success stories or space gardeners ideas. They stumble onto primitive humans and things go like Leto describe. From there, the Goo goes back to the Engineers- some original Engineers exist but the Rebels begin to experiment with the Goo and things spiral downward. Somewhere along the way, Some Engineers are aware of where the Goo came from (Earth/humans) and that is why they have Earth on their sh%t list (mapped out on the Juggernaut and the one that wakes up wastes no time when he sees them).

I prefer to think that Engineers are not creators of humans, but created from humans! Some Master Race visit Earth at the dawn of humanity and find primitive humans. They take some people and upgrade them to Engineers. And then Engineers rebel against Master Race and win. And they get Master Race's technologies like a prize. In the end they go to Earth to teach primitive humans, but lost interest to them and decided recycle them into a “soil” for Black Goo.

Saw that! Glad to see some one else got bitten by the Dust bug. Tons of great sci fi shorts with different categories. Omeletto is a pretty decent site too.

Come on. Everything was created. Engineers wanted to reproduce and to be Immortals like their own Jesus. They had created a substance with unimaginable properties and they used it to create new species and to improve themselves. Even their technology is organic. 

David created a sub-specie of the Deacon. Perhaps an improvement, or not, we don't know that.

Ridley Scott told that he doesn't believe in coincidences, in random events and, that we are the result of chained random events.

We were not created by luck. 

Ps: Immortal is different from undestructible.

Regarding Dr Shaw's SOS.... you have to wonder why this was not detected, especially when the Nostromo went VERY close to LV-223 and the Covenant as not TOO FAR from there either.  Could David had dis-activated it?  It depends on HOW that SOS was Sent and if it was a One Time Transmission which would then had been detected at some point, but could have been No Longer Transmitting by the time of Alien Covenant and Alien.

The Black Goo is still ambiguous, it seems it could be something the Engineers had NOT created, or it could be something they had Created but then it had Interacted with a Organism they had NOT Created that lead to the LV-223 Experiments.

As far as i Recall in Alien and Alien Covenant there was NO Eggs that were Open, apart from after Kane and Oram got Face Hugged.

The Blue Myst must be some kind of Protective Barrier that Prevents the Eggs from getting out of Control, some kind of Safe-Guard.  If we assume the Eggs remain Dormant until a Host is near by...   In Alien and Alien Covenant it suggest that Touch/Close Proximity is what caused the Egg to open.... in Aliens and Alien Resurrection we see the Eggs did-not have to be touched, just the Presence is all thats Required.   

How do the Eggs Detect a Host?  by something related to our Repository System (But Kane had a Space Suit) by detection of a Heart Beat (Eggs could be really sensitive), maybe Kane would not have been infected had he not Touched the Egg?

I can only assume the Blue-Mist was a way to Prevent the Face Huggers from Accidentally being Activated/Released.  However.... this would imply the Blue-Mist is part of the Ships Technology which would imply the Safe-Guard was a Engineer/Space Jockey creation.  Which could contradict the David Created the Xenomorph Plot!  Unless he Engineered this Safe-Guard?

HOW the Eggs got on the Ship and Safely is one of those Big Questions, with ALIENS a lot of people could Assume they are Laid by a Queen and Transported... this could be a Risky Task, unless there is some Mechanical Intervention in this Process.

Alien Covenant had showed us Small Eggs... we could maybe consider if the Eggs Start Small and are Planted and then Grow to a Certain Size... they could Contradict the Queen and Egg Morph however...

However if we look at Alien Covenant and accept/assume that David had created them, we dont see those Eggs Created by a Egg Morph or Queen.

In Alien and Alien Covenant we see the Eggs seem to be placed on some kind of Soil/Substrate and so if the Origins of the Eggs are from David and there are Small Eggs that have to become a Certain Size before they are Effective, then taking Thousands of Small Eggs and Seeding them on some Substrate could be a Easier way to Transport them onto the Derelict.

Then they GROW.

PS sorry for this being a bit Off Topic ;)

When we wish to look more at the Engineers Origins, we can take the following into Account.

At some point in our Past we used to Live in Caves, using only simple Stone Tools, we have Evolved Past the Stone Age and onto many Stages of Technological, Cultural Evolution.  

The Process of such Evolution started as Slow, and with each NEW Age, the rate of Advancement Grew at a more Rapid Pace...  The Dawn of Modern Man we had seen a much more Rapid Technological Revolution over the last 200 years or so.  "Eureka the Light Bulb" as Peter Weyland mentioned in his 2023 TED Talk.

What would our Technology and Ability to Share Knowledge be like in 50, 100, 200 Years Time?  What about in Thousands of Years and would we Reach a Technological Perfection where the Technology is as Advanced as it can be and THUS it does-not change for Thousands of Years more!

The Engineers seemed to have Reached such a Level where they hit a Plateau of Technological Advancement.  My point being with this Reply... is what Evolution had the Engineers gone through?   Had they Once Lived in Caves and used Stone Tools?

How long was their Technological Evolution until they reached the Level that that had Obtained?

Prometheus indicated that our Technological Advancement and Knowledge came from the Engineers at Various Stages they came to Visit us.   Without their Interaction and Help, would Mankind had remained as Cave-Men? Or had been held back Thousands of Years (in Context to the Franchise).

so we can PONDER this with the Engineers, were they really so God-Like that they NEVER had a period where they were in the Stone Age?  Did they Evolve/Create Technology on their OWN? 

Maybe they had been Nurtured and Taught all they know from another more Ancient Species, maybe they STOLE some of their Technology.

There really is a LOT that you could expand upon with the Engineers, its quite Limitless Really, and by covering them in a FAR FAR away Place and/or at a Very Ancient Time, then we dont have to BOG down the ALIEN Franchise with all this stuff that some ALIEN Franchise Fans may feel is a Distraction...

A Prometheus Expansion, that covers FAR FAR away Parts of the Galaxy or other Galaxies, and is set Thousands, or Hundreds of Thousands of Years ago would allow them to have TOTAL FREEDOM.... and not be Restrained by ALIEN the Xenomorph and Ripley etc.

ALIEN Franchise as Big as Star Trek.... Not Likely... PROMETHEUS Franchise... Maybe...Certainly Bigger than the Avatar One ;)  

If Done Right!

Yes Sir Ridley Scott you was ahead of the Curve... but maybe such a Bold Plot for our Space Jockey was too Bold for some of the Fanbase of the Franchise.

"it would be interesting to see some of their success stories."

I think that could be interesting, and it did appear that Ridley Scott was more interested in covering more than the Xenomorph and Bio-Weapons,  There is  a lot more to Mankind than the Discovery of Gunpowder and its Various uses as a Weapon, so the same can be said with the Engineers. 

Ridley Scott still referred to them as Gardeners of Space at the time of Alien Covenant and after he even felt he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus.

Ridley Scott claimed the Franchise should be on a Level with Star Trek and Star Wars, a BOLD Statement, the Franchise could NOT be on that level if we are ONLY dealing with the Engineers, Xenomorphs and Mankind.

Those Franchises are Galactic Stories, about Discovery, Exploration of Worlds, or/and the introduction to various Worlds and Races.  They also mainly deal with Conflict too...    The Plot of Prometheus could have taken us to Far Away Worlds that we get to see Many Various Races.

I think going this route would be TRICKY because for a lot of people you would need some Characters you can relate to, and this usually would mean the introduction of Human Characters.   However this does-not mean that you have to have Humans from Earth....   You could have a Human Race that are 100% Human but called say Thallians from the Planet Thall  you could have them called something else by the Engineers (be too much Coincidence to call Humans, Mankind or Humans... but maybe Man could work?)  What ever the Collective Word for what the Engineers would call Mankind....  they could use this Word (whatever it is) to describe how they had Seeded this Man across the Galaxy in 7 Colonies (or more) and that some of these became Corrupt and Action had to be taken against them...  (RS suggests the Engineers wanted to Wipe the Slate Clean when Creations become Rebellious or not behaving as intended).

This would indicate to the Audience that the Human Characters we would be introduced are another Colony of Humans the Engineers Seeded/Taken too other Worlds in the Distant Past, thus showing that Earth is not the ONLY place where Humans are.

These Humans could then be our Proxy and Characters to connect with but it does-not have to revolve around just this Species.

Something i have mentioned on here a number of times about our Creation/Intended Destruction, is it appears a lot of Effort had been Put into Mankind, surely the Engineers would NOT want to PULL the Plug at our First Offense?  And RS had suggested that maybe we have Displeased the Engineers a few times, and a Emissary was sent down as the Last Straw!   He had also hinted that the Engineers may have Wiped the Slate Clean on Earth multiple times, even mentioning Atlantis.

For Such Effort that our Creation and Interaction may have taken, then to SIMPLY just Destroy us to Start Again is a bit HARSH and unwise!

UNLESS....   we are just one of a Number of Human Colonies... where in Future they can just take some Humans from one of these places and Re-Seed us once the World has been Cleaned Anew!

Or could they have done as GOD had done with Noah! and offered a NEW Start for some of Mankind, we dont have to look at it in a Traditional Biblical Account, but it would make Sense for the Engineers to come down and take some Humans (maybe Children would be better) and take their Creations to another Place to Start Again, while they then Rain Down Hell on the remainder....

I think looking at it from the Engineers Perspective this makes sense, unless as mentioned before they have Humans on other Worlds so would NOT need to try and SAVE a few of their Number.

In either of these cases it would ALLOW for Humans to had been Placed on other Worlds than just Earth.

Ridley Scott really does need to explain fully , about why the blue mist . Is covering the eggs and who put it there  in the derelect cargo ship , was it the engineers . Or could it be another few civilians , fore Covenant crew or the Nostrumo . Put it there  for them to be brought back ,for use of bioweapons , testing etc etc . We also know David from PROMETHEUS or COVENANT . Did not create the black toxic ooze , that creates the the xenomorpths the   engineers  did . as Shaw says to Janak in PROMETHEUS, that it's carrying death , there plan was to go to Earth to unleash it to us  He only created more of them himself , cause all of this explained will connect . Brilliantly to A L I E N , cause theres bound to be more people . Who heard the message that Shaw left , saying for no one to attempt on coming here . Cause as we all notice inside the cavern section all the other empty shells of eggs beside , the ones that's alive and intact . Who else got killed by them makes ye think ??

I would love to see more movies about the Engineers. For a start, it would be interesting to see some of their success stories. We know what happens when their handiwork goes rogue, but let's see what they're really aiming for.

That's before we even get started on the business of what there was before the Engineers, and the goo that they somehow managed to acquire.

Our Galaxy alone has several hundred billion stellar systems, and it is now known that most stars have planets. I'd like to see something completely inventive - and utterly alien - that shows what could exist throughout the cosmos. The possibilities are endless.

I'd like to see an Engineer movie that features no humans at all. Just focus on the alien aspects of alien worlds. The trouble is, Hollywood would never make such a movie these days as it would not put bums on seats. If I had a few $bn to spare, I'd really shake up the business, I can tell you!

Episode 1 was great!,

when will we get episode 2?

Yeah its only something i would recommend spending $2-3 on to Buy lol....  i saw it on the SY-FY Channel. 

The reason i mentioned it, was because the Humanoids that where Engineered (think Replicants) did bare a resemblance to the Engineers... they was Engineers in like a Cross Between LV-223 and Planet 4...

The Movie seemed to take influences from the Prequels to ALIEN and Blade Runner.... 

The Interesting Part in Context to the TOPIC... is the Movie indicated that these Humanoids (who looked like Engineers) where Created for some Purpose (like David/Replicants) by Humans, but  these Creations where intended to Serve and NOT Procreate... its when these Creations then became Sentient, and could Procreate that the Humans Decided they had to PULL the Plug on them!

And so when Ridley Scott called the Planet 4 Engineers the Originals... then the Winters Dream 2307 Plot could very well FIT with the relation between Planet 4 Engineers and LV-223 Engineers.

As i am drawn to those Prometheus Engineers being to the Planet 4 Engineers as Replicants are to Humans in Bladerunner.

So to continue with my previous Post....

The ALIEN Franchise does-not have to connect to Ripley!

They could have a Movie set between Alien and Aliens, they would have to be Careful how this could Conflict with Aliens, but if done right then it could indicate WHY the company abandoned the pursuit of the Xenomorph for so LONG!

There is another potential ALIEN Movie by exploring what else happened to the Process/Events that lead to ALIEN, these could cover Planet 4, LV-223 and Origae-6 (if the Prequels were NOT to give these places closure) and so such Movies could offer something ALIEN but also different.

A More Traditional ALIEN Movie would be to Cover between ALIEN 3 and Alien Resurrection,  after the USCSS Patna leaves Fiorina "Fury" 161 do they head home and simply ACCEPT the Xenomorph is NO-MORE until we arrive at the Plot for Alien Resurrection?

It appears the USCSS Patna had not arrived at LV-426 prior to Fiorina 161 and so maybe its possible that it would go to LV-426 to see if the Derelict is Salvageable.....

Or indeed the Company goes back at some point in FUTURE which seems to be the Plot for Blomkamps Alien 5 (set 20 years latter).

So we could go for another Mission to LV-426 between ALIENS and Alien Resurrection, or indeed go for Blomkamps Alien 5 but just DONT use Ripley, Hicks and Newt as this was indeed what Blomkamps Idea was before showing it to Miss Weaver who then talked about it with Blomkamps and then he Re-wrote his ideas to bring back Ripley, Newt and Hicks.

The Alien Franchise does-not have to be about Ripley, so we can have Movies set between 2115-2375 that are very ALIEN/ALIENS (Xenomorph) that dont have to be about Ripley.

If we want Ripley i think they should continue from ALIEN RESURRECTION as what happens to her NOW that she is NOT fully Human, what Conflict does she suffer with her Humanity and Alien Soul!

"Make a movie between Aliens and Alien 3 it's a terrible idea ever. Nobody like it, because all know the end."

I disagree with this,  but your comment is VALID to a degree much like it is with this comment "What's a problem? Don't want, don't see. But there are people who want to see! And be better (and honestly) if people get the sequel what they want."

It comes down to Personal Preference, some people like Cameron's Aliens, some Dont, Every Fan has a different take and NO Fan owns the Franchise, the Majority who like ALIENS and the similar Comics/Books have a RIGHT to like that style but they should not be considered the VOICE of the Franchise, and neither should be those WHO dislike ALIENS and the like.

Personally i think whats DONE is DONE, and there is NO point in trying to UNDO anything to PLEASE a % because you then DISPLEASE a % so it comes down to then FORCING which Sect of Fans is in the RIGHT!   When None should be.

Nobody would like a Movie Set between Alien and Aliens? thats quite Bold, i think we cant say that, some will like it, some wont, but  then the same comes with this. "But there are people who want to see! And be better"  and so YES some would like to see a Blomkamp Alien 5, but some would not.

Personally i think its a case of looking into the Broad Reasons for ALIENS Fans Love of that Movie and the similar Style shown in some Comics and Books, and IF this is ONLY a case of because it has Ripley, Newt and Hicks, then Unfortunately they were Killed Off...  I personally dont think making more movies to BRING THEM BACK would be a Good idea, as it could lead to Disney basically just Rebooting what they want with the Franchise and its a case of where does this STOP?

We need to instead look at the other Elements about ALIENS and the similar Action Based Comics, Books and Games that a certain portion of Fans like.  And introduce these into ANOTHER Movie.

The ALIEN Franchise should NOT be about RIPLEY! doing this really does LIMIT the Franchise... is the Potential of the Xenomorph only LIMITED to the Derelict, and does it always have to have Ripley come to the Rescue?

so you can have other ALIEN Movies that DONT have to be about Ripley at all....  for those who Want Ripley then we could the route of what happens after ALIEN Resurrection, and continue with 1-2 Ripley Movies from this path.

Some Fans would be Quite Happy with Ripley and Co based Movies that Bring Back or Re-use there Characters, this is something some of the NOVELS do, such as there was ONE if i remember (have not read it) where Ripley is involved in another Situation with the Xenomorph between ALIEN and ALIENS, but then gets back on the Narcissus shuttle, and would then have had to Forgotten about those Events by the Time of ALIENS.  I would NOT like if they did similar with the Movie Franchise....  just like the Aliens Colonial Marines where Hicks is Alive after the events of ALIENS.

These would be just Fan Pleasing Nostalgia that could Conflict and Damage the Franchise, such things should be kept to GAMES, COMICS and NOVELS that are considered Canon/Non-Canon to each Fans own Personal Choice.

IF such a Movie was made.... then as you had said LETO... it would be a case of THOSE who dont like the idea, DONT have to Watch or Consider it as a Canon... and can IGNORE the Movie/Sequels and Accept Alien 3, and those who would LOVE to see a Blomkamp Alien 5 can accept these as Canon and Ignore Alien 3.

And so those WHO would hate such a ROUTE that conflicts with Alien 3, kind of have a Right to dislike it, but it comes down to the Studio and WHAT they would like to do, and if Disney choose to do a Blomkamp Alien 5 that offers a ALTERNATIVE sequel to ALIENS, then we have no RIGHT to say this cant happen... those who dont like the idea can simply NOT go and watch or consider this route as Canon.

IF we do go this Route then it simply offers TWO alternative Paths after ALIENS which Fans can choose to accept which ever they want, Some Fans could be Happy to Watch Both sequels and view them on their OWN Merits... so we DONT know if a Blomkamp Alien 3 (which is  what it would be) would be just a Nostalgia Trip with NO real Good Story but just the same Old Action, Run and Shoot... it MAY actually be a Good Movie, we would not know until its been made.

Certainly from a $$$$ POV then it could be a Money Maker... if it is made and BOMBS then i think it could well be a Big Nail in the COFFIN of the Franchise as far as Disney would look at it.... but the same could be said with ANY movie they would attempt.

so what i am saying is IF they go for a Reboot of Alien 3, then thats down to Disney, those who dont like the idea, can IGNORE it, or maybe go and watch it and just see it as a Alternative and NOT true Canon.... those who dont like Alien  3 could go and see it as the True Sequel to Aliens.

I just hope IF they made it that the Plot is Good and it tries to offer something a bit different too, and its HOW they handle the AGE of the Actors... as it is going to take a lot of OVERSIGHT or Good CGI to set the Movie say 10 years or so after ALIENS.... 25-30 years latter would be more fitting.

I hope it does-not lead to them having Ripley appear in movies set between Alien and Aliens, or even doing a ALIEN reboot....  or a REBOOT of the Prequels.

@BigDave, 2307: Winter's Dream passed me by. I checked the trailer and it was quite intriguing. Unfortunately it gets some really bad reviews on IMDB. Not so much for the story, but the apparently terrible acting and CGI. I might have bought it on iTunes were it not for the consistently bad reviews.

NEVER seen that HR Giger BatMobile before, thanks for the Share, i dont think its suited to the BatMobile...... However as far as some Engineer small Craft be it some kind of Fighter/Scout or some kind of Hovercraft (i dont think Engineers would be using Wheels) then i think something like this would be VERY fitting.

I think one Mystery we have with the Engineers was HOW/WHEN/WHERE did they obtain that Bio-Mechanical looking Aesthetic/Technology and WHY they dont seem to have it on Planet 4 apart from the Ships in the Docking Hanger (Juggernauts) and Border Control Ship (Scorpionaught).

It appears they LIVE a basic Life like some Cultures do on Earth Still,  where they Sparingly use Modern Technology but choose to LIVE the same Life/Culture that they had done Many Hundreds or Thousands of Years ago.

Is this by CHOICE?

Did they abandon such Technology apart from for a Few Purposes and if so WHY?

OR are they FORCED to Live in this Manner by the Hierarchy above THEM?

A lot of things that would be INTERESTING to discover, but UNLIKELY that we ever will :(

What do you think of Giger's batmobile, BigDave?

I think it just shows a combination of things, First improvements to Costume Designs, Second each Producer/Directors own unique touch, and Third a change in how the Xenomorphs are intended to be Visualized 

By that it appears the Leg Design is something they now consider is more Standard for the Xenomorph.  As far as the Digitigrade  Anatomy, which we see in Alien Isolation and so by that if we got say a Sequel to Alien that was set between Alien and Aliens, or even a Aliens Sequel set between Aliens and Alien Resurrection i think our Xenomorphs would be depicted with Digitigrade Legs

The Lack of the Dorsal Tubes on the Runner is something to debate about.... 

But the differences between the Alien and Aliens Xenomorphs could be considered as either Separate Variants from different parts of the Ship.

Or maybe there is some kind of Pheromones or other Element that determines what the Xenomorphs Gestate into.     The Drone could be considered as something that is TASKED with Starting up a Colony... Once Established and a Queen is then Established then the Queen or Hive could release something that would make those Gestating Xenomorphs become Warriors.

Maybe in Alien Resurrection there was NOT what is deemed a successful Hive/Numbers for the Gestating Xenomorphs to appear more like Aliens Warriors?

I think the BIG Question should be around the Xenomorph's Origins, as a Purposely Created/Engineered Organism for the USE as a Bio-Weapon (to Clean up Worlds) is the Queen a Desired Trait that is Engineered into the Bio-Weapon?  A Mutation?

Or a Throw Back Trait from what ever the Xenomorphs, Deacons etc had been Experimented from?

Alien Engineers seems to indicate that the Xenomorphs came in Variants and are Experiments from Re-Engineering a Life-Form the Engineers likely Did-Not Create (Holloways Child)  If similar applies to the Movie Franchise, then some more Ancient Organism that lead to the Xenomorphs etc could have had a Procreation like Ants/Bees etc (had a Queen) and so this is a Throw Back Trait.

But then it could be explained as a Trait that was Engineered into some of the Variants of Xenomorph.

Especially if we look at the Black Goo like intended which was the same as the Scarabs in Alien Engineers, then it explains the Process of Davids many Experiments.  But even the Mcguffin Goo we now have could still do that due its Radical AI application, by that Every Organism has a different DNA/Genomes, that would READ as Separate and Different Genetic Code/Program and the Black Goo can thus take the Genetic Code of One Organism and Hybrid it to another Organism.  (not too far off what the Scarabs did). 

So indeed the Creator of the Xenomorph, could use the Black Goo to Create Different Versions and Procreation... want a Flying Xenomorph, then the Black Goo could take the Traits of Flight from a Bat, Bird or Insect and apply them to the Xenomorph to Create a Flying Version etc.

Sorry i should have mentioned as far as Aesthetic but i guess having a BAR in their Meeting Rooms comes in handy ;)

So i would have liked to had seen a Scene were we see some kind of Corporate/Political Meeting Place with Chairs and Tables that had the Aesthetic of HR Gigers Bar, as well as the overall Aesthetic of that place..

Its a Nice Mix of Gothic meets HR Gigers Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic...  But ALAS we never got to see that in Alien Covenant, and maybe we WONT in Future..

I think it would depend if Disney would be interesting in the Engineers and what kind of deal they can strike with the HR Giger Estate.

@ Leto,

BigDave and I are just highlighting Cameron's perspective, which has to be taken into consideration when talking about the eusocial side of the Alien, as he was the one that introduced this to the mythology.

Personally, I believe that the hive/insect/eusocial Alien introduced in Aliens is a variant different to the biomechanical variant Kane discovered and that the "bug" Alien came from somewhere inside the derelict Juggernauts collapsed "hammer" arm; the part of the vessel the Jordens accessed the vessel...

Considering that it is highly unlikely that Anne Jorden dragged her husband all the way from the location of the eggs Kane discovered 57 years prior, it is my belief that shortly after they entered the collapsed arm o the derelict Juggernaut that Russ and Anne Jorden discovered a scene similar to this...

Upon discovering the bound Queen they approached a nearby egg as it opened only for Russ to get Facehugged, after which Anne would have dragged her husband out of there and back to the rover.

As for the Queen, it is my belief that the Space Jockey experimented with its cargo and created the Queen by introducing the Xenomorph to insect DNA.

Speculations aside, its key to take note that Alien and Aliens present their variants of the Xenomorph as somewhat individual to each other, whereas Alien 3 and Alien: Ressurection confuse/muddy the situation. The latter two movies carry forward the Queen idea, but the Aliens produced have a carapace akin to the creature from Alien, instead of the carapace-less look introduced in Aliens.

And then there are the inexplicable and unexplained reasons as to why the "Runner" Alien is the only standard Alien (as in not a Queen) that does not possess any of the Aliens dorsal appendages (the four tubes/nozzles and the "fin"). While it is also important to note that in Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3 the Aliens born shared the leg structure of their hosts, yet for reasons unexplained the Aliens in Alien: Ressurection, despite being born from human hosts (whose legs are plantigrade) somehow had digitigrade legs like those of the dog born Alien in Alien 3. The Aliens from Alien: Resurrection also do not possess the dorsal fin seen at the top of the spine in the variants seen in Alien and Aliens.

@BigDave That is a bar in Switzerland not a conference room. You can see the beverage fridge in the background and various bottles of alcohol. But I would be curious if the Engineers would enjoy Coca-Cola....

I for one are Concerned we MAY NEVER see much of our Engineers again, or Discover more about them, for instance where did the Bio-Mechanical Technology Come from?

The idea i had for a Prometheus 3 would have taken Dr Shaw and David to a World inhabited by Engineers and Humans but then i would have expanded on this with a connecting movie that would touch up more on the Bio-Mechanical Aspect in another Part of the Galaxy or another Galaxy all Together.

The Events could have then lead to the Engineers and Hierarchy returning back to our Part of the Galaxy many Hundreds of years after ALIENS.  And brought about and explored a kind of WAR OF THE WORLDS...

I think its a shame a lot of Fans and likely Disney would see the Franchise as having to Center around the Xenomorphs... but the Engineers/Space Jockey are something that would have expanded the Franchise beyond that.

I am sure Fans was Disappointed at Alien Covenant, as far as what to expect from our Engineers and Discovery more about them.

I think it would have been nice to see some various Bio-Mechanical Ships and Buildings...

Buildings/Ships with say Conference Rooms like this.

Also when considering the Weyland Yutani Military Sulaco Ships..  i wondered what would a Engineer/Space Jockey Answer be to them?

I always liked the HR Giger Train Design.... and thought it looked like some kind of Mother Ship...  like the Imperial Alliance Battle Ship from Star-fleet/X-Bomber

Loved to had seen a Engineer/HR Giger Version of that.

Which to me HR Gigers  The Train looked like.

Talking about The Train.. its a shame this Project/Movie was never made, some of its Elements/Plot could have been used for a Engineer Ship that goes around Collecting Various Life-Forms.

Or maybe David could have similar kind of Horror Plot turning the Covenant Ship into The Train?

There were other Aesthetic Differences between the Alien Big Chap and Aliens Warriors, James Cameron had mentioned the Maturity of the Species for some of the Differences, but he did intend to KEEP to the Clear Carapace Aesthetic but abandoned it as they See Through Part of the Costume became too Fragile for the more Action Sequences.

But again a lot of people will only go by what is SHOWN and not any comments by the Directors/Production.

So there are some Differences, these are from Cameron and his Team Deciding on some changes Aesthetically instead of trying to STICK with the Original...  But each Movie the Aesthetic is changed somewhat.

The Reality is those Working on Aliens and Cameron had came up with a Design that they in part felt was more suited for Action Scenes, and also going the route that these were WARRIORS then some of the Aesthetic Changes could be to make them look more... well Warrior Like.

We have to look at the Xenomorph from the BUG/HIVE POV and so there are different castes for maybe different Tasks... 

We cant Rule out that a Xenomorph can Evolve/Molt itself to some Changes to SUIT what ever role is required... so for a Queen who is Somewhat Incapacitated due to Egg Laying, then she would require the Warrior Class for Protection.

Maybe there is some Pheromone, Telepathic or some other kind of Element that helps to Determine what is required..   So that a Face Hugger who infects a Host and Gestates a Certain Distance from a Established Hive would Automatically Create a Big Chap/Runner Variant of the Species.

Where as ONCE a Hive has been Established and a Queen then any Gestating Xenomorphs within a Proximity to the Hive would Automatically become a Warrior....   When the QUEEN is gone then something triggers a Face Hugger to Produce a Royal Embryo.

(But it could be something similar to how daliens had mentioned in regards to a BEE HIVE).

Regarding the Finger Digits, maybe they felt the Xenomorph Costume benefited from having the Stunt Person inside placing their Hands in the Gloves in pairs, as far as a Production Perspective instead of 4 Individual Fingered Glove....  with the Thumb in addition.  With ALIEN in some shots the Costume Glove as far as 6 digits did look odd as ONE of those Digits had NONE of the Stunt Persons (Bolaji Badejo) Fingers in it, so it was a attached Additional Digit and it did come across as being a bit Wobbly and Odd.

It boils down to a combination of whats going to be better to use as a Costume, while also maybe what could look a bit different as far as Cameron putting his own Twist on the Design.

something INTERESTING to consider is that the QUEEN also has 6 Digits like the  ALIEN Big Chap could we consider this means they are Procreative Versions of the Species, and so would explain the Egg Morph Procreation or could a Big Chap simply EVOLVE into a Queen?

 James Cameron's statements that his Aliens were older is valid...

Oh, that's obvious. I try to say - they are not the same species from original Alien. Whatever what Cameron said. How anybody can explain missing six finger?

If we look at the bee world we can try to explain a few things, by comparison. 

A queen bee mates with the drones (male bees) and can lay fertilized or not fertilized eggs. From the not fertilized eggs come the drones, whose only purpose in life is eating and mating. From the fertilized eggs come the worker bees that are all female but not sexually mature. If the queen dies, the worker bees can lay eggs, but not being fertilized will produce only drones. Since the drones do not work or collect food, the hive will disappear. 

How do we get the queen bee? Nothing special about the egg, the worker bees feed a female larva from a fertilized egg with royal jelly, that female bee will thus become sexually mature and will lay thousands of eggs after mating with the drones.

But it is crucial to feed that female larva with royal jelly from the very first stages, otherwise it will be another worker bee.

If we consider the eusocial type xenomorph's chestburster like the bee larva, nobody would feed the poor creature with alien royal jelly unless it is born within hive or a group of xenomorphs able to protect and watch over it.