Comments (Page 230)

I don't think so. Ridley had to make Prometheus - first "prequel" as prequel to Alien. And after - made another stories.

He didn't give to us the prequel, but he is still in prequels route. There is no place for other great ideas.

Thanks for the Share.

Interesting Interview, it kind of confirms that he had a Idea where to take the Franchise Next, certainly seems his Direction would be different to a Blomkamps Alien 5 Direction.

It is ambiguous as far as are we talking a Broader way to Evolve/Change the Franchise or is he being Specific to the Beast?

I get the impression he wants to Evolve something to be different to what we have seen been done over and over, and so WHAT does this mean for the Prequels as far as getting to ALIEN, because we are just Marching to the Inevitable... yet RS seems to HINT at wanting to explore something different/evolved than something that becomes the Standard Xenomorph.

Looks VERY nice.

"David already knows the answer. He’s always known. Creators are disgusted by what they make. We create because we’re bored, and when we realize what we’ve made is actually alive we quickly try to control it. Eventually our creation evolves out of our control, and our only option left is then to kill it."

I think this is a accurate in a Nutshell overlook of what is going on.

Both Blade Runner and Prometheus touch upon Creation, and Creation in Context to Artificial and that their is Hubris in playing GOD and creating something that is Superior to yourself that is intended to SERVE....

So indeed if you Created a Species to Serve some Purpose, and this Creation Cant Create, then NO soon as they can Procreate or Re-Create then that would be a Concern.

A lot also centers around Knowledge and Free-Will if a Creation is given certain Knowledge and Free-Will or gains them, then they could start to Question the reasons for their Creation and become Sentient, this would be another Concern.

There are Multiple Ways to look at WHY you would Create Something, especially in your own Image.

*Sometimes this could be for Companionship because you feel Alone. 

*It could be to create something to take over tasks/duties that you would No-Longer have to do and so to act as a Servant.

*It could be to have something to look up to you and worship you and elevate you to a King/God.

*It could be that creating something leaves you a Legacy, it also shows off the Height of your Achievements.

*It could be to make up for the Disappointment of something you created before, or other aspects you are Disappointed with in context to yourself, your own kind or Previous Creation.  A attempt to Re-do/Perfect something.

*It could be because you CAN and out of Boredom.

*Finally it could be to have something that you do-not have to Watch Over and Love/Care for.  Because having something to Love and Cherish will make you feel Accomplished.

To some degree a number of these apply to reasons for Creation in many Religions/Mythos, they all share some of the above.  The same would fit with WHY we have Weyland and Tyrell create also.

One of the Big Questions that Fans of Prometheus would have been hoping to find out is what reasons the Engineers had for our Creation.

The SOUL is a interesting thing to look at... because it falls into the following.

*The Spiritual Soul of a Person that Lives on in another Pane of a Existence after Death.  (There is NO 100% way to say that Mankind has this).

*The Collection of Memories and Emotions and Experiences that you gain through Life  that make you who you are (this leads to the next point).

*The Kind of Person one becomes from their Upbringing and Interaction throughout their Lives. (determines if you have a Kind/Good Soul/Person or a Evil/Selfish one).

*Putting a lot of Effort/Emotion into something you do or work on (putting your Heart/Soul into something).

Looking at these then a AI like David can have them all apart from the FIRST One......  But this is something that there is No Guarantee that we Humans have.

A AI like David, if he could Upload/Transfer his Memories and Emotions into a NEW Body after his Current One is Damaged or into some kind of Cloud/Network... would IN EFFECT have gained After-Life and a Ever Living Immortal Soul!

So the Irony is that maybe DAVID is the ONLY one who has/can gain a Complete Soul!

I think the 100% way that Mankind could get a Ever Lasting Soul would be ONCE we are able to Transfer our Emotions, Memories and Experiences into a AI just as we see in the 2014 Movie Transcendence  

Sorry if this seems a little Off-Topic, but to carry on i think that the Themes you expressed in the OT are shared in Blade Runner and Prometheus, and who knows if they will carry on with Ridley Scotts Future plans as far as WHAT KIND OF WORLD would our David Create.

Considering that he said the Sequel to Alien Covenant would NOT be about Xenomorphs, but about AI and that RS sees the Replicants as AI too...  so AI means a Artificially Created/Engineered or Enhanced Life-Form/Intelligent Creation.

Hi, original author of the article here, I'm glad you all liked it and thanks to Lawrence of Arabia for sharing!

I think IF we combined some of these ideas so a Amalgamation of them then we could indeed have ourselves something NEW to use in the Franchise that could follow the Idea/Path that Dan O'Bannon had intended ;)

I missed this Topic so thanks for the SPAM Bump ;)

I think there is  a lot that O'Bannon should be Happy with, as far as from what his Star Beast had evolved into, some of the Designs for the Star Beast were... well Poor to be Honest!

This ONE by O'Bannon being the Exception.... also the Face Hugger is described more like the Trilobite.

But we ENDED up with HR Gigers Effort which O'Bannon had showed his work to Ridley Scott and well i think the Monster we ENDED up with was Exceptional and Certainly something i FEEL that O'Bannon would be pleased with.

I think the ONLY Disappointments maybe he would have, could be the Organism had gone from being the Remnants of a Ancient Alien Species, that was discovered by another Giant Alien Species (Space Jockey) who fell Victim to their Curiosity something repeated by the Human Crew who come in to investigate the SOS/Warning.  To then just becoming a Engineered Bio-Weapon by said Giant Alien Species (Space Jockey).

I would certainly think he would be VERY Disappointed with the route that Alien Covenant has been as a Creation by a AWOL Android.

Which is a FAR CRY from the Alien Species who are somewhat Advanced and Civilized but required to use other Organisms to Procreate its Kind.

With the ADULTS Gone.... the Remaining Young Once Birthed would remain Feral and Hostile.

The route of David as a Creator would be Further away from O'Bannons ideas, more so than a Engineered Bio-Weapon by the Space Jockey Race.

I think O'Bannon can still feel proud that a Majority Nuts and Bolts of the Franchise, as far as the First Movie are from his Ideas, and especially the Unique Aliens Life-Cycle.

I would assume that the QUEEN is something Totally different to what he would ever conceive as far as Sequels, but thats NOT to say he Dislikes the Queen.

I have said this BEFORE.... we could explore a Origin to what lead to the DNA that the Black Goo had that seemed to pass on Xenomorph like Traits, and Alien Engineers seemed to indicate that the Engineers had Discovered a Organism that they then Experimented on and Re-Engineered to obtain the Xenomorph and Variants.

So we could still explore a Ancient Species that has a Life-Cycle similar to the Xenomorph and some Aesthetic, and either the Engineers Discovered this and Re-Engineered from it, or the Engineers became a Slave Race to this Ancient Star Beast Species before Overthrowing their Masters!

I think this would be a IDEAL way to expand upon the Franchise, and GO BACK to O'Bannons ideas...  i would take O'Bannon's Design, add a bit of HR Giger to it, and maybe some HP Lovecraftian Design.

And thus introduce the STARBEAST!

I think to a degree it did-not matter what Time-Line we was in, the Advent of the Prequels i think makes it more important to give some detail/context to the Time-Line which they clearly do.

But indeed while the Prequels have Dates Set in Stone by Virtue of the Movies, the other Movies in the Franchise do-not clearly specify any dates.  so we could ponder if they are indeed 28 years after the End of the First Prequel, or 50, or 100 years. Would this matter so much?

I think one cause for concern with the Time-Line is the route of Alien Covenant where being set 18 Years Prior to ALIEN causes some Conflict for some in regards to how the Derelict looked like it had been on LV-426 for MUCH more than 18 years.... we have YET to conclude the Prequels however, so it could be shown that the Derelict/Space Jockey may have been there a LONG time but the Egg Cargo not so.... However we would still have to Question what then happened to the Space Jockey and that Acid Hole, and WHAT was the Derelict carrying if it Did-Not have Eggs all those many years back.

These sorts of Questions would NOT have been a issue had Alien Covenant not had to become a more Direct Prequel, and they stuck to the Original Idea for the Event. (Derelict)

Again i think you just have to accept what we are shown/told that has not been shown in the Movies in some cases....   But i understand some would not be willing to accept anything that is NOT shown in the Movies, while sometimes using information from Books/Comics and Games as providing more Definate Dates/Events as Canon, as opposed to Blu-Ray/DVD Extras and comments by Directors etc.

We get a lot of such Cherry Picking.

so if we ONLY consider what the Movies Show, then Indeed the Date for Alien becomes ambiguous with No Clear indication. 

But as DK mentions... should it really matter?

Again i think the ONLY thing that kind of BUGS the Time-Line would be the Route the Prequels take IF we conclude that with NO David there was NO Derelict/Eggs on LV-426, which would mean that IF we say Alien was set in 2122 then those Eggs (maybe Derelict) could have been on LV-426 for No-Longer than say 10 years!

Which certainly in ALIEN it looks like it was there for MUCH Longer.... but again until we CONCLUDE the Prequels its open to debate and subject to CHANGE.

I don't think we can really trust the date about Amanda. Burke could have easilly lied. 

Honestly, getting caught up in the axles of timeline ruins the enjoyment. Remember that different people were involved in each movie and may have just pulled dates out of their arses. 

Thats good Question, i think sometimes we just have to rely on and accept what is said that has NOT been shown in the Movies.   I am sure and i will have to Watch Aliens again that there is a mention in regards to Burke about a June 79 Date, which we can assume is June 2179.

I am sure Amanda was said to have Died 2 Years prior to Ripley being rescued but the DOB for Amanda on the Document shown to Ripley is NOT in any Date Format we use on Earth...  so its more like a Star Date.

Here is a image of it, Date of Birth 24.6.59.20. and Date of Death 12.23.20. ??  these make No Sense and the 24.6.59.20. could have more Digits after, example 24.6.59.20.55 etc

There are a lot of Flaws with Dates in those Movies..

I missed this Topic, so its interesting to bring up.

I think this is also a case of how we dont have to have the Franchise Centered around Xenomorphs...

If Disney did a TV Series we could explore the Arcturians, i have not and do-not really read the Expanded Novels so cant really speak about them.

From ALIENS it was quite Ambiguous, it could have been that this was a Colony of Humans that is a World thats some kind of Get Away Break for Humans a kind of Relaxation/Holiday Resort and a Pleasure Planet if you would like say RISA is in the Star Trek Franchise.

But on the other hand we could Ponder if it was a actual different Alien Humanoid Species/World.  It remained very Ambiguous were we could ponder  why SEX did not matter for Frost as far as Arcturian Poontang

This must indicate the Species are Very Attractive and Sexually very Satisfying that its easy to mistake a Male and Female or that Frost was so under the Influence of Substances/Alcohol that he failed to realize.

It seems that the indication is they are a Separate Species and it would be interesting to explore them, and see WHY such a mistake could be made, maybe their is something Aesthetically that can cause a Mix-up?  Or Frost was Drunk or simply Bi-Sexual, we just dont know for sure.

Maybe its a Question for James Cameron ;)  Maybe they are what became his Navi from Avatar lol

Joke aside, it would be interesting to see what they was like, in context to away from Alien... Arcturians are seen by some as a Alien Species from the Arcturus Star System some 36+ Light Years from Earth, that appear to be described as being Blue in Color.  (of course their is No 100% Proof of this Species much like the Alien Greys)

So it would be interesting to wonder how they could have looked, and maybe it could be that BOTH species are Similar, we cant assume EVERY Humanoid Race would be like us, we cant for example assume every Alien Race would Give Birth and Raise their Young like Mammals and so maybe they DONT have Breast?  Maybe Both Male/Female have Breast so they could Share Breast Feeding Duties?

The Arcturian Poontang comment would imply their Species are visited for Sexual Pleasure so we have to ask WHY bother when there are Human Females.

So this can allow us to Imagine the Biology of such a Species, i had a IDEA a while back how to explore this Species and WHY they would have relations with Humans.  But maybe this would have been a bit complicated.

Looking into this Alien Wiki Page Xenopedia Arcturian a which i have only just checked out, i assume this is from the Novels Sources and it just sounds like a Cameron's Alien Queen meets Avatar Navi.

First of all i want to say Welcome and its nice to see People who saw Prometheus for more than just having to be about a Aggressive 7-8ft Humanoids intent on Killing Mankind with a Horrific Weapon....   I also think a Prometheus 2 had more scope and Dr Shaw while Flawed could have had some Revelations that could have Totally given her a new Story ARC.

"reduced humanoid aliens to a fantasy race in a boring roman city?"

There was a sense of Disappointment by many regarding the Aesthetic, the Engineers on Planet 4 looked more Human than Majestic as they did in Prometheus, and i am sure many expected to Discover a World with such Bio-Mechanical Technical and Architectural Wonders.

I dont really object to much to either, i had hoped we would be seeing more of the Engineers and their Worlds and would not mind a Mix of Ancient Civilization and the Space Jockey/Engineers Bio-Mechanical Civilization.

My main Concern was how these Engineers were  all killed off by the time the Covenant Ship arrived, and the Disappointment of the Movie does leave the possibility of ever exploring the Engineers beyond 8ft Aggressive Space Fairing Genocidal beings on a Warpath!  very unlikely.

I think it would be a Tragedy if the ONLY time we see our Engineers would be as shown in the Comics, where its deemed NOT important to go into DEPTH with them, but just show them going around with the Bio-Mechanical Technology and introduce some Bio-Mechanical Weapons and basically go around Killing Humans and Xenomorphs...

I think a little of this would be FINE... but for me the Engineers are more than just to be depicted as Flying Around Bombarding Worlds, and being Aggressive Jerks to everyone.

PS Thanks for the Portrait nice Work ;)

It is a good enough edit. It reminds me how much better this scene was than the actual movie due to real character development.

O'Bannon might be in all likelihood disillusioned with all of the movies from Alien3 on.  Gordon Carroll became high-quality and I cherished his display Moonlighting with Bruce Willis. Custom Dissertation Editing Services UK

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I dont think Rebooting anything would be ideal...

The Prequels should remain, you can in further movies CHANGE some of the things they opened up as the Prequels are Ambiguous, more so Prometheus.

We have only be shown a Few Things as FACT.... Dr Shaw is Dead... as a example (but there could be work around).

But we have not yet been shown the Moment the Eggs get on the Derelict, and so its not SET IN STONE.. that the Xenomorphs are Created by David, and the Engineers are the Space Jockey, not as in context to what we have been shown in the Movies.

Directors Comments and Intended Path prior to Changes, dont really 100% count as they are subject to Change... by that 4+ Years ago the Xenomorph was a Creation of the Engineers that was Thousands of Years Old.

So instead of Rebooting the Prequels they can just use other movies to Elevate and Change the Plot.

This is similar to what they did with the David Creates the Xenomorph Curve-ball, which in Hindsight must be a Mistake as its certainly something i feel only a SMALL % of Fans are pleased with..

This can be Subject to Change.

I do agree that while the Franchise can go the Xenomorph for a Few More Rounds, i think Ellen Ripley has had her DAY!   However if they are to bring her back i think they have to make it a sequel to Alien Resurrection.

But there is a Fanbase/Market that would want to see the Gang Back and have a Cameron's Aliens 2, 3 and 4 etc... I think Hard Core ALIENS Fans (means those who really like the Movie, but also could like the others).  I feel a Majority of them would NOT mind a Blomkamps Alien 5

And i think Disney may see such a route as the Less Risk, more chance of making Money...  Nostalgia SELLS!

If they go this route i guess we can either Boycot those Movies, or Watch them on their own Merits but still accept Alien 3 on-wards as your own Personal Canon.

I just think there is a lot more to the Engineers Plot, that does-not have to restrict to them being used as they are in the Dark Horse Comics.

I certainly think it would be interesting to see more of their Technology, there was a lot of Good Concept work as far as Engineer Technology/Worlds that was done for Prometheus, but this was Toned Down somewhat for the Movie, and almost completely gone in Alien Covenant.

We dont have to see the Black Goo as per Bio-Weapon, it would be interesting to Explore it as the Creation Tool which is maybe what its Original Use was, and then maybe see what difference there is (Sacrificial/Black Goo) but its likely the same substance that can be used in different ways.

Dont get me wrong for all the Philosophical Thought Provoking Creation Plot, and Chariots of the Gods, i feel ANY expanded Spin Off would have to have its share of Horror and at some-point Action Scenes.

so some elements of Engineer Technology as far as Weapons and their use would be something to be explored, but i dont think it would SOLELY have to be based on this take on the Engineers, like the Comics seem to do.

I cant really see how you made that Comparison?  Maybe its as i put below?

I do accept that we saw the Engineer wake up and attack the Crew of the Prometheus, but he only killed Weyland, Ford and the One Mercenary (David to a degree) and all with his Bare Hands, so we never saw no real Predator Technology.

My point being that i feel Disney are more likely to revisit our Engineers (if they do) more in context to the Comics that they appeared in, were we would see them portrayed similar to Predators in 7-8ft Guys using Technology/Weapons and Hand to Hand Combat to dispatch of Humans and XENOMORPHS and so by that i mean more of a Action Role, and NOT much about their History or all the Gods stuff.... they would likely be shown as 7-8ft Angry Vengeful beings intend on Eradicating Humans and Tearing up Xenomorph Ass!

I can see AVP was like Prometheus in context to the Ancient interaction with Mankind, Undiscovered Temples that Xenomorph (Black Goo) awaits for  the Foolish Human Explorers.

What i mean by AVP was in General as far as the Franchise (Games, Comics) are Action Based, Xenomorph vs Predators in Combat, its also WHY i think Disney would rather go the route of a ALIEN movie thats more Action and Run/Shoot Orientated.

I think Disney would see that Action Sells and so there is more chance of a Aliens/Alien Resurrection type Alien Movie, than a Alien, Alien 3 and Alien Covenant for example.

Nothing wrong with what some would call PopCorn Action, i feel the Alien Franchise has much more to offer than the Gung Hoo Action Route, but a few in this Style would not Hurt, but i feel there is only so many times you can keep doing this, and even with Alien/Alien 3 i think the Franchise is BIGGER than the Xenomorph as far as a expanded route.

In Hindsight i think they needed to had done TWO Prometheus Sequels.... one to LV-223 where we could have a more Action and Alieny Vibe, have Xenomorphs or similar and more Clues to LV-426.  Then another that followed Dr Shaw and David could have gone off and done its OWN thing and steered away from ALIEN.

Dont get me wrong, when viewed on its own and Not-Canon i think the First AVP is actually a decent Popcorn Action Flick, i think Aliens is the better one (to some degree, as far as better OVERALL movie).

so we are more likely to explore the Engineers in some kind of AVP like Movie, where we replace the Predators with Engineers.  So Fans can see Engineers purely shown as Bad Asses who use their Superior Technology against Humans and Xenomorphs... so Yeah! just like the Predators.

Like Prometheus, right? :)

I think Ridley Scott had BIGGER/BOLDER intentions/dreams than just that ;)

May be, may be, but Prometheus already looks like AvP.

The description definitely helped. Otherwise I thought it was a bit abstract and the end seemed Matrixy somehow. Another viewer said " That’s how I feel when I walk up to the TSA line with my luggage". Most shorts have descriptions.

Certainly Thoughts_Dreams we have to go back to ALIEN as the Kick Starter to the Franchise, and we had the Xenomorph explored in Future Movies but NONE ever went back to expand on WHO the Space Jockey was and WHY that Cargo.  The Space Jockey Scene was Enigmatic this Species, his Technology their History and Agenda are something to be explored...   The Xenomorph was considered a Bio-Weapon throughout most the Franchise and in Ridley Scotts Eyes, and so it was a case of ONCE you explained WHY this Bio-Weapon was Created and what for, then what do you do NEXT?

More Eggs, more Weyland-Yutani Conspiracy? The Plot of the Prequels which includes Alien Engineers does-not solely rely on showing us all these Space Jockey/Engineers do is Create Bio-Weapons to just KILL off Folk!

The Galactic Gardeners of Space Plot opens up a WHOLE Universe of possibilities and i think this is what Ridley Scott was aiming for, so that Prometheus would act as a Bridge... it would loosely link to ALIEN but then allow a sequel that would be Totally Different to the ALIEN Franchise.

Alien Covenant should not cause any Problems for exploring the Engineers and who created them, what else did they or their creators create..  This is by Virtue of a Few Things.

*The Engineers and their Origins/Hierarchy are ANCIENT, and could have Many Layers who Origins Span Millions, a Billion or so Years.

*The Engineers and their Hierarchy (Creators) have likely Seeded Life and Created Life Across the Galaxy (never mind other Galaxies), if Humanoids are a near Perfect Desired Project you dont Scrap it to Start Again...   David proved Flawed... did Weyland-Yutani just Scrap having AI/Robots?

*The Galaxy is Large its like about 100'00 Light Years from Side to Side, the Center of the Galaxy is 25'000 Light Years from Earth.  Within the Franchise it appears such Interstellar Distances are BEYOND what Mankind can Achieve in the 2100-2300 but certainly not for Engineer Technology that is perhaps Millions if not MORE Older can traverse!

*If we ASSUME there are other Humanoid Worlds in the Galaxy, we cant assume everyone is at a similar Stage to out own.  some Worlds could be Much Younger, with some Humanoid Species that are Stone Men....  some Worlds could have Evolved to past what we have Today, or in the Alien Franchise, but they achieved this Tens of Thousands of Years ago, or More and are SIMPLY.... No More!

So the Engineers are unlikely to ONLY had interacted with and located on Earth, LV-223 and Planet 4...  so indeed we can have a expanded Franchise thats ONLY connection to ALIEN is the Engineers/Space Jockey in that this Race had also maybe Created Mankind and at very least Interacted with us.

No need for Earth (could have flash backs to our Past) or be set Hundreds of years in the Future, No Need for Xenomorphs, David etc etc.

Star Wars has Humans... yet it is NOT set in our Galaxy, a number of other TV Franchises likewise (Caprica/Battle Star Galactics)

There could be Interactions between the Engineers/Humans from these Distant Places and Earth, these could be done in Flash Backs/Set in our Distant Past.... or a Future Interaction Set after the EVENTS of Alien Resurrection, but we dont really need to have them interact.

Such a Expansion would not have to be Restricted to ALIEN, and so would have a lot of Freedom to cover many things.

We could be shown a Distant Human Colony (Colonies) came from the Engineers visiting Earth in the Ancient Past and taking some of us to other Worlds...  or it could be shown that out Origins came from a FAR away place and we are just one of many Colonies of Humans and we came from another Place Many Many Thousands of Years ago.

However... to be honest its unlikely we shall see such Ventures, i do feel that Disney would want to Maintain the Alien Franchise and have it all CONNECT together, so we are more likely to explore the Engineers in some kind of AVP like Movie, where we replace the Predators with Engineers.  So Fans can see Engineers purely shown as Bad Asses who use their Superior Technology against Humans and Xenomorphs... so Yeah! just like the Predators.

I think Ridley Scott had BIGGER/BOLDER intentions/dreams than just that ;)

About Ripley she had her time, she did great in Alien 1, 2, and 3 but it went into crap with AR. The prequels are disappointing about at least they are not about Ripley. Try to make good characters and try new ones instead of bringing up the same old character again.

Maybe they could have some Ripley adventures in a novel or what ever but not in a movie. Sooner or later it will become old and will probably tarnish the legacy of Ripley. Let her be and do not make it into a parody. Even if someone somewhere say that “well we can still try to respect her as a character” I would say that it will be repetitive make something new.

I would not be against them rebooting the prequels because they are disappointing anyways but don’t reboot any of the original 3.

Visually it was good but if this was not mentioned then I would not have a clue what it was about.

"A story of emotional weight one carries within, and the hardships when striving to rid oneself of it."

It is alright, maybe they are wondering what they will do with the franchise. The short-films were better than Covenant and I do not care for David 3. Perhaps they are wondering about what direction to go, I think that is a smart thing.

Sure it seems like an interesting idea, I would like to see more about the Engineers. It should be clear that it is a part of the Alien-franchise but not be about the Xenos and include the human journey. We have not had any great human characters since alien 3 which is why the rest have failed which is not to say that there have not been some interesting ones after Alien 3 but as a whole they have failed.

We could see new planets because they would probably look different and see the results of what the Engineers have done there (gardeners of space). I would like to see the tools that they have to create life but those tools should not be explained. I would also like to see it explained what the difference between the Engineer in Prometheus and the Engineers in AC are about, I am still thinking about this. We have debated this but we have not had any explanation about this on the screen. Do they have different looking ship or do they all look like the Juggernaut and the Derelict. What are the different ones that they have? Are the Engineers something that just showed or up or are they made to serve an agenda and if so by who?

I do not care about another David movie, they destroyed that in Alien Covenant. Screw that

"… they would maybe NOT have to Speak a Human Language, they could speak a Ancient One, and all we have to show is them speaking in a Ancient/Alien Dialect for a Short while with Subtitles…"

Well we have the Hobbits in the Lord of the Rings so they are technically not humans and that worked.

I don’t like the idea that mankind is older than the Engineers. I like the idea that they made us or something similar or at least that is better. Maybe something higher up in the hierarchy made both the Engineers and mankind, that could work.

I like the idea of the black goo, it is just that AC messed it up a bit.

Here is something related to ichneumonid wasps since I think that they had something to do with the Egg-morph:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303956327_The_Braconid_and_Ichneumonid_Parasitoid_Wasps_Biology_Systematics_Evolution_and_Ecology/download

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3497088/

https://nature.mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/ichneumon-wasps

I do not know that much about it but I thought that I could post it here for the discussion if anyone is interested.

I think when looking at how things could expand...

While Ridley Mentioned the Engineers predate us, it does-not mean they Created us, this comment by RS was interesting. “You’ve got to go back and find those engineers and see what they are thinking. If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where’s the big boy?”

While this more likely indicates the Engineers Created us, it does seem to indicate that their is another Being, Species or something Else (that is Intelligent) that could be above the Engineers.

When i was working on my ideas for Prometheus Sequels, i was going to have it that David and Dr Shaw go to place VERY FAR away, and for example if it was indicated as below, then this would be about 40'000 LY from Earth.

They discover a world that had Engineers, but also 2-3 other Variants of Humanoids, ONE being Humans.  At first David would have to Translate, but Dr Shaw could Communicate a little as she understood some Ancient Languages from her Research.   Realizing she could speak a bit of some Ancient Language i was to have it where the Engineers or a Humanoid use a Device or something that allows Dr Shaw to then be able to Understand the more common Language that this World Uses...  I was to have the Engineers become concerned when the Humanoids became interested in her Faith/Beliefs, which is when the Engineers would have to Act to take her away from being a Influence.  The Engineers who have NO Concern about our System are at First Intrigued and Curious but this does turn to Concern and Irritation... i then had a few ways things could have Gone Next... which would have involved either Dr Shaw becoming Tortured/Experimented and Punished, with David coming to her AID and causing Chaos for the Engineers World, or the Engineers Turn on Both of them but David offers them a Covenant, and throws Dr Shaw under the Bus so to speak.

While i am not suggesting this Exact Plot should have been the ROUTE to have taken the Prometheus Sequel, i think it Certainly should have gone this way to a degree (off to a World that is FAR FAR Away) this would have NOT had the Odyssey of Dr Shaw and David conflict with the Alien Franchise or Connect.

The Problem of Needing Human Characters could be FIXED by similar to what i suggested, which is if the Engineers are our Forerunners, then its likely other Worlds they play a Active Role in would speak some of the Ancient Languages we had on Earth.

I think when giving us Alien Covenant, i think it was a bit too Lazy and a Coincidence our Engineers Home-World is SO CLOSE to Earth, and i find it Unlikely that Earth is the only place with Humans or near enough Humans that the Engineers play a Active Role in Interacting with.

If David or Dr Shaw survive their Odyssey or certainly cause Major Trouble, then being so FAR away from our System could allow them or Engineers to come back to Our System at some-point after the EVENTS of Alien Resurrection.  Giving us maybe a War of the Worlds that would NOT have to Conflict with the Alien Franchise Time-Line of 2093-2179 at Least.

But what is Done is Done.... (i understand WHY some things had to be how they was due to a Direct Plot to Alien and Xenomorph Origins)

However as a Expanded Universe we could go to FAR Away Engineer/Human Worlds and have a Separate Franchise that would not Conflict with the Alien Franchise at all.

Such a Expanded Universe would not have to Limit Itself to the Alien Franchise, Earth, Weyland-Yutani or the Xenomorph for example.

Want to TIE them in down the Line... maybe a Future Earth Mission does Travel FAR FAR away and Discover the Engineers again, and then we can explore what would happen in this case.   Or the Engineers or some of the Humans could leave FAR FAR away and arrive in Systems that Mankind Occupy and regardless these events could happen past the Time-Line of Alien Resurrection.

Subscribed so i can check some of them out...

Seemed very well done for a Small Budget.

I did see a little of one of the Engineer Concepts in the Design of the Character. (cant find one i am on about, will try latter).

Edit Found it.

@Leto

We certainly could be thrown a Curve-Ball.... and having it that we Pre-Date the Engineers would certainly FIT this, thus they came from US....  the Concept Work for the Cathedral Dome on Planet 4 was Interesting as Steve Messing and Wayne Haagg did their own where BOTH had the same Building and BOTH had Human looking beings and NOT Engineers. It would be interesting to get some answers of either of those two ;)  The source i had indicated Mankind was the Bigger role NOT the Engineers as far as Xenomorph goes. Also that we was like 5th Generation of Mankind.

So indeed Engineers Origins come from US would be a Curve-ball...    Maybe Mankind and Engineers were created by a Different Race, where Mankind could have been Created First?

I think there certainly is scope to adjust the Hierarchy/Levels of Creation and THROW a Curve-Ball.  Even the Masters as being Machines could be another Curve-Ball.

some Interesting comments, and the Black Goo/Origins could be something to EXPAND upon, but i think the Potential is FAR beyond even this Element (The Goo) i think the Franchise as far as Prometheus could open the Possibilities to explore Various Races, not limited to a Handful and not Limited to being Human-Like the Franchise should NOT be limited to exploring Black Goo Monsters related to the Xenomorph/Deacon, as that could be covered in Expanded ALIEN Movies.

I also think even if we explore Humans, i feel we dont have to revolve around Humans from Earth, as in context to the Prometheus PLOT, i feel its pretty limited to Center around Mankind from Earth.. Sure maybe Humans could Predate Engineers, but if so i think having it that Humans Originate from Earth as Limiting!

To have the Franchise Limited to say Humans, Engineers (both Alien Covenant and Prometheus kinds) would be a bit Limited, and especially if we are looking at these in Context to within a 200 LY distance from Earth.

Prometheus opened up a Potential to Go Beyond even our Galaxy.... Alien Covenant condensed everything to being set within 50LY (up to 300/400LY) of Earth and revolve around David and the Xenomorph...

The Scope is MUCH Larger than those ;)

PS... the Area in Green on that Map would Span about 3000 LY, and the Yellow about 1500LY and so by Virtue of the Engineers Star Maps it shows the Explored Galaxy of the Alien Franchise is a Drop in the Ocean to what the Engineers have potentially Explored/Could Reach.

Building on most ideas above: The Engineers are their own beings. They create things- much like the success stories or space gardeners ideas. They stumble onto primitive humans and things go like Leto describe. From there, the Goo goes back to the Engineers- some original Engineers exist but the Rebels begin to experiment with the Goo and things spiral downward. Somewhere along the way, Some Engineers are aware of where the Goo came from (Earth/humans) and that is why they have Earth on their sh%t list (mapped out on the Juggernaut and the one that wakes up wastes no time when he sees them).

I prefer to think that Engineers are not creators of humans, but created from humans! Some Master Race visit Earth at the dawn of humanity and find primitive humans. They take some people and upgrade them to Engineers. And then Engineers rebel against Master Race and win. And they get Master Race's technologies like a prize. In the end they go to Earth to teach primitive humans, but lost interest to them and decided recycle them into a “soil” for Black Goo.

Saw that! Glad to see some one else got bitten by the Dust bug. Tons of great sci fi shorts with different categories. Omeletto is a pretty decent site too.

Come on. Everything was created. Engineers wanted to reproduce and to be Immortals like their own Jesus. They had created a substance with unimaginable properties and they used it to create new species and to improve themselves. Even their technology is organic. 

David created a sub-specie of the Deacon. Perhaps an improvement, or not, we don't know that.

Ridley Scott told that he doesn't believe in coincidences, in random events and, that we are the result of chained random events.

We were not created by luck. 

Ps: Immortal is different from undestructible.

Regarding Dr Shaw's SOS.... you have to wonder why this was not detected, especially when the Nostromo went VERY close to LV-223 and the Covenant as not TOO FAR from there either.  Could David had dis-activated it?  It depends on HOW that SOS was Sent and if it was a One Time Transmission which would then had been detected at some point, but could have been No Longer Transmitting by the time of Alien Covenant and Alien.

The Black Goo is still ambiguous, it seems it could be something the Engineers had NOT created, or it could be something they had Created but then it had Interacted with a Organism they had NOT Created that lead to the LV-223 Experiments.

As far as i Recall in Alien and Alien Covenant there was NO Eggs that were Open, apart from after Kane and Oram got Face Hugged.

The Blue Myst must be some kind of Protective Barrier that Prevents the Eggs from getting out of Control, some kind of Safe-Guard.  If we assume the Eggs remain Dormant until a Host is near by...   In Alien and Alien Covenant it suggest that Touch/Close Proximity is what caused the Egg to open.... in Aliens and Alien Resurrection we see the Eggs did-not have to be touched, just the Presence is all thats Required.   

How do the Eggs Detect a Host?  by something related to our Repository System (But Kane had a Space Suit) by detection of a Heart Beat (Eggs could be really sensitive), maybe Kane would not have been infected had he not Touched the Egg?

I can only assume the Blue-Mist was a way to Prevent the Face Huggers from Accidentally being Activated/Released.  However.... this would imply the Blue-Mist is part of the Ships Technology which would imply the Safe-Guard was a Engineer/Space Jockey creation.  Which could contradict the David Created the Xenomorph Plot!  Unless he Engineered this Safe-Guard?

HOW the Eggs got on the Ship and Safely is one of those Big Questions, with ALIENS a lot of people could Assume they are Laid by a Queen and Transported... this could be a Risky Task, unless there is some Mechanical Intervention in this Process.

Alien Covenant had showed us Small Eggs... we could maybe consider if the Eggs Start Small and are Planted and then Grow to a Certain Size... they could Contradict the Queen and Egg Morph however...

However if we look at Alien Covenant and accept/assume that David had created them, we dont see those Eggs Created by a Egg Morph or Queen.

In Alien and Alien Covenant we see the Eggs seem to be placed on some kind of Soil/Substrate and so if the Origins of the Eggs are from David and there are Small Eggs that have to become a Certain Size before they are Effective, then taking Thousands of Small Eggs and Seeding them on some Substrate could be a Easier way to Transport them onto the Derelict.

Then they GROW.

PS sorry for this being a bit Off Topic ;)

When we wish to look more at the Engineers Origins, we can take the following into Account.

At some point in our Past we used to Live in Caves, using only simple Stone Tools, we have Evolved Past the Stone Age and onto many Stages of Technological, Cultural Evolution.  

The Process of such Evolution started as Slow, and with each NEW Age, the rate of Advancement Grew at a more Rapid Pace...  The Dawn of Modern Man we had seen a much more Rapid Technological Revolution over the last 200 years or so.  "Eureka the Light Bulb" as Peter Weyland mentioned in his 2023 TED Talk.

What would our Technology and Ability to Share Knowledge be like in 50, 100, 200 Years Time?  What about in Thousands of Years and would we Reach a Technological Perfection where the Technology is as Advanced as it can be and THUS it does-not change for Thousands of Years more!

The Engineers seemed to have Reached such a Level where they hit a Plateau of Technological Advancement.  My point being with this Reply... is what Evolution had the Engineers gone through?   Had they Once Lived in Caves and used Stone Tools?

How long was their Technological Evolution until they reached the Level that that had Obtained?

Prometheus indicated that our Technological Advancement and Knowledge came from the Engineers at Various Stages they came to Visit us.   Without their Interaction and Help, would Mankind had remained as Cave-Men? Or had been held back Thousands of Years (in Context to the Franchise).

so we can PONDER this with the Engineers, were they really so God-Like that they NEVER had a period where they were in the Stone Age?  Did they Evolve/Create Technology on their OWN? 

Maybe they had been Nurtured and Taught all they know from another more Ancient Species, maybe they STOLE some of their Technology.

There really is a LOT that you could expand upon with the Engineers, its quite Limitless Really, and by covering them in a FAR FAR away Place and/or at a Very Ancient Time, then we dont have to BOG down the ALIEN Franchise with all this stuff that some ALIEN Franchise Fans may feel is a Distraction...

A Prometheus Expansion, that covers FAR FAR away Parts of the Galaxy or other Galaxies, and is set Thousands, or Hundreds of Thousands of Years ago would allow them to have TOTAL FREEDOM.... and not be Restrained by ALIEN the Xenomorph and Ripley etc.

ALIEN Franchise as Big as Star Trek.... Not Likely... PROMETHEUS Franchise... Maybe...Certainly Bigger than the Avatar One ;)  

If Done Right!

Yes Sir Ridley Scott you was ahead of the Curve... but maybe such a Bold Plot for our Space Jockey was too Bold for some of the Fanbase of the Franchise.

"it would be interesting to see some of their success stories."

I think that could be interesting, and it did appear that Ridley Scott was more interested in covering more than the Xenomorph and Bio-Weapons,  There is  a lot more to Mankind than the Discovery of Gunpowder and its Various uses as a Weapon, so the same can be said with the Engineers. 

Ridley Scott still referred to them as Gardeners of Space at the time of Alien Covenant and after he even felt he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus.

Ridley Scott claimed the Franchise should be on a Level with Star Trek and Star Wars, a BOLD Statement, the Franchise could NOT be on that level if we are ONLY dealing with the Engineers, Xenomorphs and Mankind.

Those Franchises are Galactic Stories, about Discovery, Exploration of Worlds, or/and the introduction to various Worlds and Races.  They also mainly deal with Conflict too...    The Plot of Prometheus could have taken us to Far Away Worlds that we get to see Many Various Races.

I think going this route would be TRICKY because for a lot of people you would need some Characters you can relate to, and this usually would mean the introduction of Human Characters.   However this does-not mean that you have to have Humans from Earth....   You could have a Human Race that are 100% Human but called say Thallians from the Planet Thall  you could have them called something else by the Engineers (be too much Coincidence to call Humans, Mankind or Humans... but maybe Man could work?)  What ever the Collective Word for what the Engineers would call Mankind....  they could use this Word (whatever it is) to describe how they had Seeded this Man across the Galaxy in 7 Colonies (or more) and that some of these became Corrupt and Action had to be taken against them...  (RS suggests the Engineers wanted to Wipe the Slate Clean when Creations become Rebellious or not behaving as intended).

This would indicate to the Audience that the Human Characters we would be introduced are another Colony of Humans the Engineers Seeded/Taken too other Worlds in the Distant Past, thus showing that Earth is not the ONLY place where Humans are.

These Humans could then be our Proxy and Characters to connect with but it does-not have to revolve around just this Species.

Something i have mentioned on here a number of times about our Creation/Intended Destruction, is it appears a lot of Effort had been Put into Mankind, surely the Engineers would NOT want to PULL the Plug at our First Offense?  And RS had suggested that maybe we have Displeased the Engineers a few times, and a Emissary was sent down as the Last Straw!   He had also hinted that the Engineers may have Wiped the Slate Clean on Earth multiple times, even mentioning Atlantis.

For Such Effort that our Creation and Interaction may have taken, then to SIMPLY just Destroy us to Start Again is a bit HARSH and unwise!

UNLESS....   we are just one of a Number of Human Colonies... where in Future they can just take some Humans from one of these places and Re-Seed us once the World has been Cleaned Anew!

Or could they have done as GOD had done with Noah! and offered a NEW Start for some of Mankind, we dont have to look at it in a Traditional Biblical Account, but it would make Sense for the Engineers to come down and take some Humans (maybe Children would be better) and take their Creations to another Place to Start Again, while they then Rain Down Hell on the remainder....

I think looking at it from the Engineers Perspective this makes sense, unless as mentioned before they have Humans on other Worlds so would NOT need to try and SAVE a few of their Number.

In either of these cases it would ALLOW for Humans to had been Placed on other Worlds than just Earth.

Ridley Scott really does need to explain fully , about why the blue mist . Is covering the eggs and who put it there  in the derelect cargo ship , was it the engineers . Or could it be another few civilians , fore Covenant crew or the Nostrumo . Put it there  for them to be brought back ,for use of bioweapons , testing etc etc . We also know David from PROMETHEUS or COVENANT . Did not create the black toxic ooze , that creates the the xenomorpths the   engineers  did . as Shaw says to Janak in PROMETHEUS, that it's carrying death , there plan was to go to Earth to unleash it to us  He only created more of them himself , cause all of this explained will connect . Brilliantly to A L I E N , cause theres bound to be more people . Who heard the message that Shaw left , saying for no one to attempt on coming here . Cause as we all notice inside the cavern section all the other empty shells of eggs beside , the ones that's alive and intact . Who else got killed by them makes ye think ??

I would love to see more movies about the Engineers. For a start, it would be interesting to see some of their success stories. We know what happens when their handiwork goes rogue, but let's see what they're really aiming for.

That's before we even get started on the business of what there was before the Engineers, and the goo that they somehow managed to acquire.

Our Galaxy alone has several hundred billion stellar systems, and it is now known that most stars have planets. I'd like to see something completely inventive - and utterly alien - that shows what could exist throughout the cosmos. The possibilities are endless.

I'd like to see an Engineer movie that features no humans at all. Just focus on the alien aspects of alien worlds. The trouble is, Hollywood would never make such a movie these days as it would not put bums on seats. If I had a few $bn to spare, I'd really shake up the business, I can tell you!

Episode 1 was great!,

when will we get episode 2?