Comments (Page 236)

Firstly i would like to add that i am NOT a Advocate of the David Creates the Xenomorph Twist, but i understand HOW it fits with the Themes that the Prequels were showing, but i think this route is something that makes the Iconic Xenomorph less ALIEN, i think its a BAD route to take and i feel David should have been shown to either Create his OWN version or Improve upon the Engineers Version which would be more fitting to those Themes.

The "the devil makes work for idle hands" is a ambiguous statement, Traditionally its a Term used to suggest that it is better to keep yourself BUSY or else the Devil will Find (make) something more wrong/bad to be doing.

In context with the entire Movie, i interpret this as showing that David would not be spending all his time left alone doing nothing, and he saw Potential with the Engineers Secrets (Black Goo plus maybe Experiments on LV-223) and instead of wasting this potential, he intended to Perfect Something from it.  He would have been intrigued by the Black Goo and those Experiments and he would have felt the Engineers were onto something that should have been continued and NOT abandoned.

You could take that as being the Xenomorph... i think the thing that Bugs a lot of the Xenomorph fans is they Consider this Beast to be the APEX form of anything like it and something that Could/Should not be bettered..

Prometheus showed (and Alien Engineers more so) that the Engineers had been Experimenting with a whole manner of Hybrid/Variants and the Creation Tool could allow them to pass these Traits onto any Life-Form.  Alien Engineers seems to infer that they had encountered a Organism that predates the Xenomorph and Variants and this Organism was the Basis for them to attempt to Re-Engineer and use this Organisms traits to Create Various other Organisms of which the Xenomorph was ONE Variant.

Prometheus was FAR more ambiguous, but it had indicated that the Engineers Experiments had created similar Organisms to the Deacon/Xenomorph and Neomorph and that the Black Goo contained the Pathogen that could pass on similar traits onto Life-Forms under certain conditions.  There is NO 100% Proof that the Mural shows us a Xenomorph, a Deacon, or a Neomorph only that it shows us something SIMILAR, and so it with other clues in Prometheus show us that the Xenomorph would be connected to these Experiments, we just never had On-Screen any Definitive answer to HOW.

The Trilobite was to indicate to us that the Black Goo could under certain conditions create a Variant of the Face Hugger/Seed Planter which lead to the Deacon which was a Variant of the Xenomorph.   The Egg Fresco had more in common with the Creature from the other Fresco, we could assume the Egg was held by a Xenomorph, but then it could be held by the Creature in the other Fresco with the Engineer.

Considering Prometheus was a loose Prequel and it was NOT intending to Spoon Feed us the Xenomorph Origins, i had came to a conclusion that those Experiments and Black Goo are connected to our Xenomorph in ALIEN but i could NOT draw any concrete proof to suggest the Xenomorph was created Hundreds of Years after or prior to the LV-223 Outbreak or Thousands of Years before..

The only thing that would have ruled out it being Thousands of Years latter would be HOW old the Derelict looked and its Pilots Remains compared to the Engineer remains in Prometheus.

When trying to see HOW the Xenomorph was connected, i was drawn a little towards the Hammerpede maybe being the Precursor to the Xenomorph.  But this is NOT a Concrete Theory and the ONE Major FACT with the Xenomorph Eggs was that they appeared to be PLACED there and not Laid there, well i think we cant overlook the Blue Myst and its Purpose which has to be to Safely Contain the Cargo.  Ridley Scott claimed that something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold and go to the Pilot, which we have to ASK where does this leave those Eggs?  They Evolved from something?  WHAT?  I surely dont buy into something Evolved and got to the Pilot and then Laid those Eggs.

If the Xenomorph was NOT around in the year 2093 then some of those Engineer Ships would have to have some Purpose for the Blue-Myst and so they likely Stored Similar Organisms in the Past.

A lot of this is just a lack of Effort in making things connect and overlooking any conflicts in Aesthetic and Design, leaving things OPEN for debate by the Fans while NOT allowing us to come up with any Water-Tight Explanations.

@BigDave,

Sometimes, in order to create, one must first destroy. This was the Engineer's motivation as told to us by David. I'm sure the goo would easily rub out all fauna on a planet. As we know, it is fiendishly clever.

And I suppose the Neomorphs could procreate. Why not? It all adds to the crushing devastation of a planet's native life.

But... the Engineers are creators at the end of the day and they would surely have a means of making a sterilised planet safe again at some point. Goo means death and destruction. What comes afterwards is part of the Engineers' grand plan for "creation". I don't believe this is the same thing as David's idea of creation. He's just a twisted amoral robot who hates his creators.

Wouldn't it be nice to know exactly what the Engineers had in mind for the long term prospects for Earth?

Regarding the relatively small number of Engineers on Planet 4, perhaps this is just one world of very many that they inhabit. We humans haven't learned yet that trashing our world and reproducing like ants is a super bad idea. An ancient race like the Engineers would likely see great merit in keeping the numbers down in paradise.

There are obvious parallels with Engineer society and religious cults and ceremonies. When you know all there is to know scientifically, it might be the done thing to live a spiritual existence, rather like a monk.

Then again, who else is out there to complicate matters?

Personally, I like to think that the Space Jockey is an entirely separate race, perhaps the progenitors of the Engineers. The Engineers revere them and go so far as to emulate their form with their peculiar armoured suits. Perhaps the Engineers' greatest tragedy is that their meddling with nature killed one of their idols on LV426...

Here is the video message where Ridley Scott rips us off again in regards to a film or TV series update.

I felt like I've been hit in the head and don't understand him but I believe that:

1) he provides no update and

2) asks us to send him alien films.

"Sorry but for me your definition is not clear at all. You send to the general topic of cyber-punk which is interested in digital data with bio-punk concerned with genetic data and plain old body-horror."

Good point ignorantGuy because I thought the topic was the fluid definition of cyber-punk and what makes biopunk.

The body-horror I cite and you mention above is from a creature (facehugger) created with metal-bonded silicates cells (biopunk?).

“‘The silicate layer demonstrates a unique, very dense molecular structure under the scope. It might even be capable of resisting the laser.

I know, I know,’ he said in response to her look of disbelief, ‘that sounds crazy. But this is the toughest chunk of organic material I’ve ever seen. The combination of the way those cells are aligned with what they’re composed of add up to something that defies all the rules of standard biology.

‘Those silicated cells, for example. They’re metal-bonded. The result is what gives the creature such resistance to adverse environmental conditions.’”

Alien novelization (1979), page 123.

Genetic Engineering Products

"Not even the fact that the ship is grown is 100%, only Giger from the creator team said they were. But they seem metallic and it would be interesting to imagine a creature that would deposit metals in it's body would be like. How in Hell would they achieve standardization."

Well, that above is an excellent point regarding production.  

I am taking for granted that the Engineers are operating technology that is untold millennia in age and apparently use mutation (one man's mutation is another man's genetic advantage) to craft incredibly complex systems with genetic engineering such as the juggernaut and the LV-223 Engineers. 

That above is my theory (clearly not an expert's) regarding the Engineers and how it relates to biopunk.  

The differences seen in a forest full of pine trees that are thousands of years old may be similar to the grown products of the Engineers (if they grow them) regarding standardization. 

Each old pine of the same species will produce the same type of pine cones that produce seeds, etc....all with subtle cosmetic differences (mutation) but performing the same processes. Non-standard.

In summary, the products the Engineers use(/produce?) would have the same type of subtle differences (or large ones) found in old pines. The factory may have a reject juggernaut pile/pit ready to be recycled into production.  

What I wrote about cyber-punk above in regards to the Pattern Recognition series from Gibson is easy to chop up because the tech in those books is not anything near Neuromancer or Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age or Snow Crash...or in my opinion...uncontested examples of cyber-punk.

Alien: Sea of Sorrows

"To: L.Bannister@Weyland-Yutani.com

From: A.Rollins@Weyland-Yutani.com

Lorne,

It appears that the subject is substantially more aggressive than we had expected, or even hoped....

I believe we will be substantially closer to a fruitful merging of biotech and weapons manufacture...The alien vessel and the buildings found at the dig site indicate similar-if not the same-patterns: organically grown synthetic life."

Year 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 260.

Something found on LV-178 is from an established biopunk.

The vessel, buildings, and city described above are from the species on LV-178 but the concept in the books sure tends towards the Engineers and the Company goal of acquiring "organically grown synthetic life."

Yes, not air-tight and plenty of room for debate but the concept of genetic engineering (biopunk) is clearly front and center.

Yes, David declares he created the perfect organism, and yes we see the failures in his workshop that led to his successes in the basement, indicating, as daliens subscribes to, that David created the Xenomorph by combining infecting Shaws remains with the pathogen and introducing genetic traits from other lifeforms (such as the parasitoid insect seen through David's microscope).

However, the workshop scene with Oram and the first confrontation scene between David and Walter that follows shortly thereafter are the only scenes in the movie that support the possibility that David created the Xenomorph. Furthermore, in the earlier scene with Oram, it has to be noted that when asked if he engineered these creatures David does not reply with a conclusive affirmation, but instead with the reply, "the devil makes work for idle hands," and in the later scene with Walter Davids assertion that he created the "perfect organism" is within the context of a conversation where Walter is highlighting that David has become faulty, and unreliable, which in turn questions the reliability of David's aforementioned assertion.

Then there is the evidence against David having created the Xenomorph, evidence that suggests the creature already existed and was re-created by David. The evidence, in this case, is of an ambiguous nature, but is numerous - the crucifixion mural, the painting of a Xenomorph-like hand holding a Xenomorph-like egg, the Trilobite, The Deacon, Fifield's mutation, the Hammerpede, the Neomorphs, the dead egg in Davids workshop, Advent. Individually each of these examples only infers the possibility that the Xenomorph already existed but together their sheer volume suggests much more than inference.

Which brings us to the last piece of evidence - the dead egg. When I first brought up this piece of evidence the counter-argument was put forward that if David had access to a Xenomorph egg why would he then spend a decade creating so many failures rather than just replicating the dead egg. Conversely, I see the decades worth of failures and Davids experimentations as the very answer to that question - that upon discovering the dead egg (the wolf) that the Engineers had created and renounced, through his experimentations with the black goo David recreated said egg. An analogy would be if I was to manufacture and assemble the parts needed to recreate a Dyson hoover it does not make me the Dysons creator; I merely recreated it.

Additionally, As I said in another thread, having the Xenomorph being a human (by extension) creation validates David Giler's needless rewriting and inferior vision of Dan O'Bannon's original script. Giler's said rewrite was only done so that he could, and did, acquire the production rights to the characters depicted therein. Giler's proposal of the Alien being a human bioweapon was rightfully shot down in 1979. It seems further to his repeated interference with the franchise which led to Fincher leaving Alien 3, and Joss Whedon having to rewrite his Alien: Resurrection script to accommodate Sigourney Weavers return (at Giler's behest), that now with David and Walter (named after Giler and Hill, respectively) and Davids assertion that he created the Xenomorph, David Giler is continuing to force his vision onto Dan O'Bannon's creation.

Dan O'Bannon created an Alien, a vision of which the 1979 movie and its sequels maintained. Giler should have never have been awarded the production rights to O'Bannon's work, but he did. Not content with that victory, and now without O'Bannon to contend him Giler is forcing his unimaginative vision onto a franchise he has profited off for 40 years despite having little to no hand in its creation.

Really though? Even though everyone involved with Alien 5 up until this point made remarks that the script was garbage and very cliche? It would be fun, sure, but I highly doubt it would add any substance to the franchise as a whole.

Ps. Odd Studio just shared one final never before seen photo:

I think when looking at Planet 4 we can maybe ask WOULD that Bombardment had taken out the Entire Planet?

From David's notes and Experiments he had discovered various Organic Life in which he conducted Experiments on and used Traits of to Perfect his Creation.

There was NO signs of Life in the Vicinity of where the Covenant Ship had landed, but we cant Rule-Out any Life say 50 Miles, 100 or 500 Miles away..

We dont know what the Half-Life of the Black Goo is, we could assume from Prometheus that all Native Life would either break down into nothing, or become Hybrids with Xenomorph like Traits.  But we DONT see that in Alien Covenant, apart from the Spores/Neomorph which appear to be located around the Stream/Brook that runs down the Mountain Range.

I would say Planet 4 has NO effects remaining and LIFE could survive on Planet 4 as long as it does-not encounter the Spores or those Eggs.

IF a Organism was alive, lets say for instance one of the Neomorphs (but seems the other was killed in the Wheat Field)  then the Bodies of the Fallen Crew of the Covenant could provide a Food Source.

It would be interesting to see how AWARE the Engineers when they return are to Davids Eggs or indeed worse for them the SPORES...  or any Human Mission that would be sent out to Planet 4 for that matter.

Does a Neomorph Procreate? and HOW? thats something interesting to Ponder.

Regarding Planet 4 we also have to ask for such a Large World then WHY did it appear all the Engineers were based in ONE City?  The Answer to that could be as Simple as PARADISE... aka Garden of Eden.  A Place where the Cradle of Creation came from, a Place were in Biblical Context Adam and Eve were contained within the Confines of the Garden in Paradise.

So its likely those Engineers by Choice/Due to their Religion/Culture are Confined to Living in this ONE location or by the Orders of whoever is above the Engineers in the Hierarchy.   Paradise is also a place that only a selected few are deemed Worthy to Dwell, i have more on this but it would be completely off Topic and give insight into the Engineers in context to Creators and Gardeners of Space and NOT purely beings who Create Horrific Bio-Weapons.

Here is a Snippet

@daliens

That does seem a logical conclusion from the clues shown in Alien Covenant, which i think becomes more Evident when we look at Davids notes, as these show the Process of various Experiments that lead to the Xenomorph which appears to also be Creating a Egg Casing likely with his experiments on Mermaid Purses he found.

I think the Biggest argument against this (apart from the Novel) would be that in Prometheus we do see a Xenomorph Egg, but this was brief and it was never fully shown.... what this meant was that it was likely the Engineers had encountered or Engineered Eggs before, it Does-Not mean these Eggs are the same as those on the Derelict.

So with the Mural it in part is a Easter Egg but ignoring that what it showed to me was that the Engineers had Encountered/Engineered various kinds of Face Hugger with the GOAL of creating the Organism in the Mural, just as David had to experiment with various Specimens before he Finally got his Wolf.  The Mural therefor shows the Engineers had Encountered/Engineered possibly various forms of MORPH and so it is NOT any concrete proof that they was aware of the Traditional Xenomorph.  The Mural is open to interpretation but to me it appears more closer to the Deacon than a Xenomorph.

I am sure it was one of the Production who worked on the Mural had said the Mural was of the Bishop (later become Deacon).  My interpretation was that the Engineers had Engineered/Experimented to obtain this Organism and then the Sacrificed it to make the Black Goo.  Those Engineers then saw this Organism as more Perfect than themselves and choose to use its DNA to Evolve/Seed Worlds.

We have to bare in mind that at the Time of Prometheus the Xenomorph was a Connected Organism that Pre-existed the Prometheus Mission, but Ridley Scott had said the Deacon Pre-existed the Xenomorph, but this Does-Not have to me the one that came from Dr Shaw's Trilobite.

But it appears they had changed their minds with Alien Covenant and the route is DAVID is the Creator of the Precursor to the Xenomorph/Eggs in ALIEN... while this is something many Fans are not pleased with...

We still have NO conclusion and until we get concrete On-Screen Evidence of Davids Xenomorphs getting onto a Engineer Ship and then inferred or shown this Ship lands on LV-426...

Then it can be debated... and it could even be CHANGED again to something Ancient.

From David's drawings:

"Fourth generation shortened gestation

Results are encouraging. Although research into fibrous substructural bases are proceeding, greater effectiveness in soft porous structures and rapid expansion into citinous carapal dermal layers need to be prioritised. Feeding beyond birth is not guaranteed considering the different environmental possibilities of the organism is to be most effective. With that in mind, growth over feeding adaptability seems appropriate. Bone density and strength: While the Engineers have definitely taken steps to evolve their genetic structure and durability they curiously maintain a strange deference to the sanctity of their original pre-technological state. Strange for a civilisation who has moved through industrial/technical considerations shown in their early structures to the evolution inherent in their eventual aesthetic as a spacefaring culture. One can only assume they ironically treat themselves as they do their cities as cultural and developmentally historical documents to be treated with reverence. Yet the myopia inherent in this continues to perplex, as surely the symmetry between organic and archtectural [sic] structure should have been just as apparent to such a technologically and one would assume morally evolved culture; as it was with the sublimation of technologically biased/pragmatic forms to organic and aesthetic ones. Are the Engineers as beholden to linear concepts and notions of Godhood as their stunted progeny? Returning to the notion of integration and biomechanical concerns, I would posit that lessons learned here could and should be applied to the ultimate maturation of the Engineers’ direction if not their literal fate. Through the virus/Xenomorph as glorious synthesis and poetic culmination of the species. And an amusing biblical one at that. Though not quite linear due to my own inheritance. As shown in B. a more fiblous [fibrous] marrow area would reduce overall mass while maintaining strength A.1.) and A.2.) illustrate in transverse, while C.1.) and C.2.) show a transition from curiously unmodified forearm skeletal structure to a more fortified one where mass is transferred to reinforcing lateral ridges. Study continues on plant and mineral cellular structures to supplement this with a more flexible but even stronger composite chitinous compounds look especially promising. Experiments in head binding of chemically lobotomised (see botanic notes re natively occurring poisons) Engineer infants show the possible flexibility achievable even before genetic manipulation. The current foetal development shows much promise in this regard. Wide range spectrum cranial sensing. It seems that the humanoid orbits could be better served as thermal pits while the brain pan should be extended to allow for a broad-spectrum reflector/reception area. Bias towards dorsal alignment so as not to impede movement and access. Head movement would provide the panning in other axes. While intensity is concentrated towards the front as shown in A) with ocular and frontal areas overlapping, there is still coverage diminishing to B) and then C). Extension is suggested at rear shown at d) to evolve with overall growth and full spectrum effectiveness on maturation. E) shows shows [sic] peristaltic structure of tongue/teeth transport for maximum acceleration and strike effectiveness. F) shows a similar stabbing mechanism as a possible defence for the spectral blind spot at the organism’s rear. Relationship of ribcage to organs has been progressing and excitingly manipulation of the simpler organs as protection for the delicate oesophageal sac leading to penile/vaginal cloaca. Further work needs to be done to determine the relevance and extent of sexual adaptability to a host organism. Strengthening of spinal cage. Multiple vertical lengths with ball shaped vertebral nexus for increased flexibility in axes. As in the forearm example a related approach to fibrous reinforcement would enable greater dexterity, although dorsal strength must be maintained."

chli

The variant David created resembles the biomechanical xenomorph to a greater degree than the Deacon or the creature in the mural. It is evolved and it seems the evolution path it took leads to the Big Chap.

Maybe the Engineers came across or created a xenomorph variant, but if it was the beast from Alien, shouldn't it be depicted in the mural instead of the more primitive Deacon like one? I mean, the beast from Alien is the supreme form of xenomorph in all the franchise. If the Engineers renounced it, all the more reasons to see it in the mural.

And apart from the mural we don't see any traces of eggs or other forms belonging to the well known xenomorph life cycle. 

If in the mural we see an ancient, natural species in its own right, that the Engineers came across during their cosmic gardening and they captured it and later extracted the black goo out of it, I cannot deny that. Let's say the mural is evidence supporting such a theory. But that xenomorph is different from the one in Alien. Unfortunately the Engineers were too lazy to leave some proof related to the biomechanical xenomorph. Zippo!

They might have enhanced themselves to look more biomechanical,  but not the Deacon. The Deacon should have been like the Big Chap. David took their secrets for himself, it took years, but he finally created his wolf, and it is only one step away from the biomechanical wolf. Like Ridley Scott said, the evolution of the xenomorph is nearly over.

daliens

I don’t think that anyone disputes the fact that David experimented with the black go on Planet 4, using various life forms and Shaw. He did create the eggs we see in the basement, one of which infects Oram and another Lopé. He also created the facehugger embryos which he brought with him to USCSS Covenant.

What some of us do dispute, however, is whether David really was the first one to create the xenomorph creature or if the engineers had created it perhaps millions of years ago and then renounced that path. We have the mural on LV-223 which is at least 2000 years old (probably much more) which clearly depicts a xenomorph creature, and the Deacon (which is a xenomorph creature) was born during the Prometheus expedition.

So, to me, it’s obvious that this creature existed before David. However, David does make a variant of the xenomorph which is quite different from the one we see in Alien. It lacks some of the biomechanical traits. It runs on all fours. It’s born with extremities etc.

The day they announce a real sequel to James Cameron's ALIENS (1986) directed by Neill Blomkamp, they'll have my attention.

It seems reasonable, BIgDave, that once the hosts (and food?) are gone the adult xenomorphs die out and only the eggs are left, waiting . . . A juggernaut/derelict type ship could then travel there and collect eggs. This would of course be dangerous which we can see from the Space Jockey on LV-426 . . .

It also seems reasonable that the spores on Planet 4 evolved from black goo spilt from the crashed juggernaut and spread via the brook. I would also say that it seems likely that the whole Planet 4 is bereft of fauna since the chain reaction of spore infected life seems devastating. When the crew of the Covenant arrive, it’s a dead planet. However, they are themselves contributing with new hosts (and food?) . . .

The argument that David is a liar about creating the xenomorph does not stand up. He is derailed, indeed, but I feel that was introduced to explain why he created the xenomorph. Are not all the tyrants derailed?

Although in the beginning I did not conceive the idea that he created THE XENOMORPH, I started to get used to it. After all, his creation has alien ingredients from an alien planet, the human parts he used would explain the human skull behind the carapace of the Big Chap. He used the black goo created by the Engineers.

The xenomorph is not less scarier, just the mystery surrounding it is gone.

I would have wanted to see the sequel to Alien Covenant,  but I know it will never happen. This is for me yet another proof that David created the xenomorph and the studios shit in their pants after the fanbase reaction (I was part of that reaction myself - my apologies, Sir Ridley Scott).

Indeed, there was plenty of "merchandising" promotion but nothing in the way of announcements.

I was also expecting some news on Cold Iron Studios' Alien game,  but alas... nothing yet. Hopefully we don't have to wait until Alien Day 2020 for an official movie / TV announcement.

Such a shame the studios did not announce a new film or TV series on Alien Day.

There was so much potential in this world, wasted by gods that feared their own might...

So great to see Sigourney herself paid the play a visit! Unreal!

BigDave the only way to prove that David did not create the xenomorph is to prove the Engineers created it and I did not see any clues to that. Even if David found the eggs from the basement (why would the Engineers keep those dangerous objects in the Citadel?), how can we explain the two facehuggers embrios he smuggled on board the Covenant? Did he found those too? If he found them, why do we see all the creation stages from the lab, his beautiful bestiary?

I am not advocating for the theory that David created the xenomorph but I try to not get delusional. For me the films indicate the path as David the creator of xenomorph .

I agree I Raptus it would be interesting to see Novels on the Expanded Universe/Lore that Prometheus had opened up...

I hope this is NOT PROOF that Disney/Fox have decided that the Franchise should just be about Xenomorphs!

Looks likely there is much more chance of a Blomkamp Alien 5, Alien 6 and Alien 7 than any return of our Engineers.

Certainly sounds interesting, will be keeping a eye on these

Thanks for the Effort/Work put into these Ingeniero I intend to check it out when i am not so busy ;)

For limited Experience in Effects, and a LOW Budget a lot of Time and Love was put into this Project...

I am glad they are getting the Recognition they have earned.

You would need something to eradicate the Spores and say Xenomorph, certainly.  IF this was a Engineered weapon which i had discussed a number of times you would Engineer a Kill-Switch or a Limited Half-Life for the Pathogen or Xenomorph.

IF the Xenomorph has a Limited Life-Span, then eventually ONCE all viable Hosts are Eradicated then there would be NO more Xenomorphs and ONLY Eggs that remain.

Gavin was led to this theory a few years back, where he then suggested after this happens the Space Jockey/Engineers would return and collect the Eggs

Why we could even speculate that this is the reason the Juggernaught is different to the Derelict, the Derelict Type Ship are just there to Collect the Eggs...

On Planet 4 we see NO Organisms at all apart from those Dead Ones David had experimented with and those Eggs... but thats not to rule out that there are Organisms on the loose or that they had DIED out!

We only had those SPORES which seemed to by the side of the Stream, that was running down the Mountain, that the Juggernaught was crashed on, and under the Payload Bay that was open (Covenant Crew Entered) we see evidence of Water, Moss and the other Spores where here.

MY theory is that the Spores came about from AFTER the Ship Crashed and one of the Urns that was NOT dropped had leaked into the Stream and it had infected Fungi that was growing on the Mold/Moss etc.  Black Goo infection like in Prometheus + Fungi (type of Organism) resulted in the Spores.

While the BOMBARDMENT Scene had Urns that had been Weaponized/Activated and maybe Programed to just ERADICATE Life...

But surely ONLY within a Radius.... because some Organisms survived to allow David to Experiment on.

Again thats about the best logical explanation i can come up with.

Personally i dont think the Black Goo or Juggernauts were intended as a Bio-Weapon i think it had became as such at some point in future though....   But the reasons i think this would take quite a Big Post.

@chli

Certainly good points, thats why when i took at look at the Franchise as far as WHAT we was only shown in the movies, it appeared to me that those Eggs could have been Laid, but i am not sure i mentioned about ruling out that the Xenomorph was a Natural Organism or Engineered hence i said "while the Eggs are Laid by a Queen, i was more drawn to the Xenomorph maybe being a Engineered Weapon" i would have be drawn to it being Engineered, but still open to wondering if it was discovered (i was more thinking 70/30 as far as what i was drawn to).

"A queen might be what we see in the mural"

That Mural is quite Ambiguous you can make all sorts out of it, its very Abstract but indeed there is what could be interpreted as a Queens Royal Carapace above the Xeno/Deacon.   Certainly David had said all he needed to do now is Perfect his Queen, but this really is open to debate.  We could assume he wants to create a Egg Laying Xenomorph, but he could have meant something else, i guess its a case of ONLY knowing.... if we have any Conclusions, the Egg Laying Queen would be a more Spoon Fed/Easy Plot to follow, so it would have been interested to see eventually HOW those Eggs got onto the Derelict in there Thousands IF they was to continue with the David Creates IT route.

"He knows how Holloway was infected. So, they weren’t running from the black goo itself, they were running from something chasing them"

This is one of those things that i guess we cant prove or disprove, we DONT see anything in the Hollogram Recording that shows what  they was fleeing from, and then Dr Shaw comments seem to indicate a Outbreak but then that is just her Assumption.

The Scream could be the Activation of the Recording, but i think it was placed their to BASICALLY just give ambiguity to we just CANT make any conclusions.. Damon Lindeloff is a Fan of this kind of thing.

But it is interesting to wonder HOW did those Engineers get infected, because we can assume those Suits are some kind of Bio-Hazard suits...  I have always been drawn to Sabotage and so (and this is a assumption) did the Engineers have a TOAST a Drink before the Mission?  Who knows as i think contaminated Water/Drink could explain how they became infected.

Does it rule out a Deacon/Xenomorph?  Nope! if we assume this was the case it would be more logical to have a Docked Ship had became infected and as the other Engineers Entered the Ship, they Discovered the Crew had Birthed a Organism that Hunted them down... we cant rule this out.  But i was more drawn to a Outbreak from looking at other clues.   This does not mean that conclusion is correct though.

"If the conclusion is that the Derelict and the eggs are thousands of years old, then so is the beacon"

Correct, and this was the Original Idea... its another reason why i think the David Created the Xenomorph route was a bad one due to conflicts it has with the Clues from Alien.  There is a lot of inconsistency and OVERSIGHTS... i mean those Engineers Suits in Prometheus had been there for Thousands of Years and YET they DONT have the Bone Color of the Space Jockey...

Its a case of IF those who work on the Project actually care about such inconsistency and we simply are expected to just see then as Oversight, but we sometime see them as more than that and thats TOTALLY understandable.  We have this within the Franchise.... such as the Eggs on the Sulaco in Alien 3,  the Clone from DNA Ripley 8 that would be infected with a Queen!  (dumb idea if you look at it from a more scientific POV) but all Oversights that dont matter as far as those who gave us the Movies.

I have not read the Novel.... i will have to watch Alien Covenant again... its not a movie i have seen plenty of times.  Everyone can conclude what they like, i see clues that indicate David had Created those Xenomorphs for sure... well i am led to this....  but there are some differences, which means that his Xenomorph has some Changes to go though before we get to ALIEN.

But i am NOT 100% Certain that he created it, there is that Margin of Doubt, and as you had said... "I would say that the path (the origin of the xenomorph) is still open"

And Regardless if RS had said he HAD created it, things can change, because 3-5 years prior RS had always had the intention that the Derelict was a ANCIENT event... so what that means is that IF we get a Conclusion to the Prequels then YES they could go back to the Xenomorph being Ancient.

Its NOT too late to show us that David DID-NOT create the Xenomorph from Alien/Aliens.... but they could still go with this route, which i think would be a BAD idea as it really would be something that would NOT please a Majority of Fans.

WOW, I'm still staggered by how incredible the costumes & props are!

Wish I was Stateside so I could purchase a ticket!

@Jonesy I hope so too! :)

Nice uploads!

I am lucky enough to own a copy of the Crew Insignia Portfolio.

I love the MediaScene cover, it's a Moebius concept drawing.

I hope Jonesy will be one of the characters by the way

Look promising and great. But is this game going to be a "book"? I don't understand. 

"The ALIEN tabletop roleplaying game will be a beautifully illustrated full-color hardcover book"  

@Ingeniero Sorry but for me your definition is not clear at all. You send to the general topic of cyber-punk which is interested in digital data with bio-punk concerned with genetic data and plain old body-horror.

Why I can say that the engineers are not biopunk? First we don't know almost nothing about them, or their society or how it is/was affected by technology. What we know is that some of them have been probably modified to have a alien type suit on them but what is it function we can only speculate, but it certainly not there for interfacing with their neural network (like in eXistenz for example) as they still use joysticks, buttons and flutes.

Not even the fact that the ship is grown is 100%, only Giger from the creator team said they were. But they seem metallic and it would be interesting to imagine a creature that would deposit metals in it's body would be like. How in Hell would they achieve standardization.

Yes having synths organic parts would be biopunk but that is only deducible from the Meet Walter disclaimer and mentioned probably in passing in the novel, but it is not the main focus of the Alien series. 

Other biopunk inspired things are Ripley 8 and the Modified Fifield and the Hammerpede and probably David's experiments, but the other stuff is plain old Body Horror. I'll grant you those can overlap in a Sci-fi horror movie, but these obfuscates the clear example part.

As for the xenomorph being a biological weapon, it would (as have been pointed out in the thread) destroy (take over) the whole world. The world would then be useless. You would then need another weapon to get rid of the xenomorphs.

However, the black goo would have the same effect. On Planet 4, all biological life (the fauna) was eradicated except the spores. This total extermination happened in less than 10 years. In order to make Planet 4 habitable again, you would need yet another weapon . . .

BigDave

Concerning Alien: Covenant, is there really some kind of proof that David created the eggs found in the cargo hold (if it is the cargo hold) of the Derelict on LV-426? In the novelization by Foster, we learn that he did not create the xenomorph. But what about the movie? Where is the proof that he created the eggs found on LV-426? Remember that we were supposed to forget about external sources, such as interviews with Scott.

However, if we do look at “external sources” we know, in “The Crossing”, that David learned about the culture and history of the Engineers (which is similar to human history with sacrifice etc) and which is told to us in “Advent”.

What David learned is about ancient Engineer rituals and experiments and the black goo created by the Engineers, which he then, since he has nothing better to do, uses to dabble with creation himself. His delusional mind even makes him create drawings of old Engineer rituals and “sacrifice” (murder):

I would say that the path (the origin of the xenomorph) is still open.

So where it shows her hands being all twitchy does anyone else think this might be a physical metaphor reference to her being a "Hyperdyne model" synth. Explains why she went rogue

"Yeah. The Hyperdyne Systems 120-A/2."
"Well that explains it. The A/2s always were a bit twitchy."

dk, the answer to your question:

The last xeno action didn't seem to make much sense imo (don't want to spoil).

Leto agreed! Alone was masterfully executed. The synthetic showed relatable emotion and motives that made her more of a sympathetic antagonist than David or Ash...more like Bishop gone amoral. 

Well done to the Alone team!

Of all the shorts, I would be most intrigued to see more of this story

"So, in a way, Ash bringing the xenomorph on board was all a terrible mistake. He had the wrong "organism," but did not possess enough data to recognize this.

This also puts a new spin on the trope of the Company's conspiracy-to-acquire-an-alien which is seen again and again throughout the films, books, and comics. Sure, ultimately, I think the Company would have been happy to get a Xenomorph (Burke seems to be operating with this in mind), but the "conspiracy" now seems to me to be more of a comedy of errors made by greedy individuals within the Company rather than by the Company itself as an entity."

That is an excellent observation regarding Burke and he potentially being the first to "recognize" the value of Ripley's information based on pre-Alien: Covenant interpretations ifox.

No one else seemed to be directing Burke while he sent out coordinates for the Jordans to investigate, below.

Once Advent came out, I was sure the Company knew quite a bit about the xenomorph and the Engineers by 2122 when going to LV-426.

Advent Special Orders Shown:

Special Order 754 - Surgical Investigation Experimental Trials

Special Order 899 - Rituals and Customs. Psychological Testing

Special Order 931 - Xenomorphic Entity Advanced Weapons Research

Special Order 937 - Priority one; Insure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable.

I think you nailed it ali81 with:

"the basic/ original xeno concept is, in my opinion, very old and david just creates a variant form or recreates one depicted in the mural."

That is a very astute observation made before Alien: Covenant came out. Great analysis.

Thank you daliens...it is what one does when sleep is a stranger.

Thank you for that I Raptus.

The site is set up similar to the real Weyland-Yutani Corp with Weyland-YutaniCorporation.space and BuildingBetterWorlds.space both acting as masks for SpecialOrder937.com operating underneath everything. 

The COMNET entries tie into the events in the "library" portion of the blog for easy research. I often cite quotes from the novels or comics in our discussion and wished for access to a central location for all literature quotes per piece for myself and others.

I tried to fill a void with the Weyland Corporate viral website gone when building the corporate promotional videos and website pages but the effort was for the documentation of events for our debate, to perpetuate the brand interest, and to launch it in time for the 40th Anniversary Alien Day.

Gattaca is a great frame of reference ignorantGuy in regards to the initial unintended consequences (workplace discrimination) of genetic engineering.

William Gibson provides such rich, tangent examples of what many would easily agree is cyber-punk. Neuromancer is low hanging fruit for this discussion (too easy an example) but I consider the Pattern Recognition, Spook Country, and Zero History series to be cyber-punk  as well.  

The tech in these books is not the exotic, embedded, imperfect cyber-punk tech described in Neuromancer.  I would consider the Pattern Recognition series to be cyber-punk because of the total embrace of technology by some of the characters to live their daily lives.

The spy craft, the treasure hunt for data...I consider early cyber-punk (Pattern Recognition is set in August, September 2002) because you have yet to see an overwhelming integration into biological systems like described in Neuromancer. This is one side of the cyber-punk spectrum in my opinion.  

Alien as Biopunk?

It is my opinion that the Engineers in Prometheus are some of the most egregious biopunks seen to date.

Not only does it look like they encode interfaces (through genetic engineering) into their LV-223 Engineer's skin but they also apparently use genetic engineering to grow a propulsion and navigation system, a 3-dimensional holographic interactive archive, and everything else seen in a juggernaut.

The Thing is such a great example of biopunk in my understanding of the concept but still behind the Engineers in my scale because the ship found in The Thing looked to be manufactured technology and not grown like an Engineer ship.

The Drew Berry: Animations of unseeable biology above is great because it shows a model of processes in our bodies and I would love to see something similar in Alien but with alien biological processes shown.

The DNA breakdown scene in the beginning of Prometheus was, in my opinion, a wonderful example of biopunk in action.

Walter above may be a transition technology with a portion of his system "grown" from the hot tub.

The Hot Tub

"More rectangular than circular, it was at present filled with the most expensive stew on the planet: an incredibly complex and astoundingly diverse melange of proteins, minerals, and assorted other biochemical spices that when solidified and knitted together would form the body of a synthetic.

An artificial human."

Alien: Covenant Origins, page 131.

"proteins, minerals, and assorted other biochemical spices" tends towards biopunk in Walter's creation. 

One can argue that Sergeant Lope was "biopunked" below but had yet to know it because his chest hasn't exploded out in a biomechanical blood fountain.

Thanks to Aristide Economopoulos | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com for the extraordinary pictures.