Comments (Page 236)

Thanks for the Effort/Work put into these Ingeniero I intend to check it out when i am not so busy ;)

For limited Experience in Effects, and a LOW Budget a lot of Time and Love was put into this Project...

I am glad they are getting the Recognition they have earned.

You would need something to eradicate the Spores and say Xenomorph, certainly.  IF this was a Engineered weapon which i had discussed a number of times you would Engineer a Kill-Switch or a Limited Half-Life for the Pathogen or Xenomorph.

IF the Xenomorph has a Limited Life-Span, then eventually ONCE all viable Hosts are Eradicated then there would be NO more Xenomorphs and ONLY Eggs that remain.

Gavin was led to this theory a few years back, where he then suggested after this happens the Space Jockey/Engineers would return and collect the Eggs

Why we could even speculate that this is the reason the Juggernaught is different to the Derelict, the Derelict Type Ship are just there to Collect the Eggs...

On Planet 4 we see NO Organisms at all apart from those Dead Ones David had experimented with and those Eggs... but thats not to rule out that there are Organisms on the loose or that they had DIED out!

We only had those SPORES which seemed to by the side of the Stream, that was running down the Mountain, that the Juggernaught was crashed on, and under the Payload Bay that was open (Covenant Crew Entered) we see evidence of Water, Moss and the other Spores where here.

MY theory is that the Spores came about from AFTER the Ship Crashed and one of the Urns that was NOT dropped had leaked into the Stream and it had infected Fungi that was growing on the Mold/Moss etc.  Black Goo infection like in Prometheus + Fungi (type of Organism) resulted in the Spores.

While the BOMBARDMENT Scene had Urns that had been Weaponized/Activated and maybe Programed to just ERADICATE Life...

But surely ONLY within a Radius.... because some Organisms survived to allow David to Experiment on.

Again thats about the best logical explanation i can come up with.

Personally i dont think the Black Goo or Juggernauts were intended as a Bio-Weapon i think it had became as such at some point in future though....   But the reasons i think this would take quite a Big Post.

@chli

Certainly good points, thats why when i took at look at the Franchise as far as WHAT we was only shown in the movies, it appeared to me that those Eggs could have been Laid, but i am not sure i mentioned about ruling out that the Xenomorph was a Natural Organism or Engineered hence i said "while the Eggs are Laid by a Queen, i was more drawn to the Xenomorph maybe being a Engineered Weapon" i would have be drawn to it being Engineered, but still open to wondering if it was discovered (i was more thinking 70/30 as far as what i was drawn to).

"A queen might be what we see in the mural"

That Mural is quite Ambiguous you can make all sorts out of it, its very Abstract but indeed there is what could be interpreted as a Queens Royal Carapace above the Xeno/Deacon.   Certainly David had said all he needed to do now is Perfect his Queen, but this really is open to debate.  We could assume he wants to create a Egg Laying Xenomorph, but he could have meant something else, i guess its a case of ONLY knowing.... if we have any Conclusions, the Egg Laying Queen would be a more Spoon Fed/Easy Plot to follow, so it would have been interested to see eventually HOW those Eggs got onto the Derelict in there Thousands IF they was to continue with the David Creates IT route.

"He knows how Holloway was infected. So, they weren’t running from the black goo itself, they were running from something chasing them"

This is one of those things that i guess we cant prove or disprove, we DONT see anything in the Hollogram Recording that shows what  they was fleeing from, and then Dr Shaw comments seem to indicate a Outbreak but then that is just her Assumption.

The Scream could be the Activation of the Recording, but i think it was placed their to BASICALLY just give ambiguity to we just CANT make any conclusions.. Damon Lindeloff is a Fan of this kind of thing.

But it is interesting to wonder HOW did those Engineers get infected, because we can assume those Suits are some kind of Bio-Hazard suits...  I have always been drawn to Sabotage and so (and this is a assumption) did the Engineers have a TOAST a Drink before the Mission?  Who knows as i think contaminated Water/Drink could explain how they became infected.

Does it rule out a Deacon/Xenomorph?  Nope! if we assume this was the case it would be more logical to have a Docked Ship had became infected and as the other Engineers Entered the Ship, they Discovered the Crew had Birthed a Organism that Hunted them down... we cant rule this out.  But i was more drawn to a Outbreak from looking at other clues.   This does not mean that conclusion is correct though.

"If the conclusion is that the Derelict and the eggs are thousands of years old, then so is the beacon"

Correct, and this was the Original Idea... its another reason why i think the David Created the Xenomorph route was a bad one due to conflicts it has with the Clues from Alien.  There is a lot of inconsistency and OVERSIGHTS... i mean those Engineers Suits in Prometheus had been there for Thousands of Years and YET they DONT have the Bone Color of the Space Jockey...

Its a case of IF those who work on the Project actually care about such inconsistency and we simply are expected to just see then as Oversight, but we sometime see them as more than that and thats TOTALLY understandable.  We have this within the Franchise.... such as the Eggs on the Sulaco in Alien 3,  the Clone from DNA Ripley 8 that would be infected with a Queen!  (dumb idea if you look at it from a more scientific POV) but all Oversights that dont matter as far as those who gave us the Movies.

I have not read the Novel.... i will have to watch Alien Covenant again... its not a movie i have seen plenty of times.  Everyone can conclude what they like, i see clues that indicate David had Created those Xenomorphs for sure... well i am led to this....  but there are some differences, which means that his Xenomorph has some Changes to go though before we get to ALIEN.

But i am NOT 100% Certain that he created it, there is that Margin of Doubt, and as you had said... "I would say that the path (the origin of the xenomorph) is still open"

And Regardless if RS had said he HAD created it, things can change, because 3-5 years prior RS had always had the intention that the Derelict was a ANCIENT event... so what that means is that IF we get a Conclusion to the Prequels then YES they could go back to the Xenomorph being Ancient.

Its NOT too late to show us that David DID-NOT create the Xenomorph from Alien/Aliens.... but they could still go with this route, which i think would be a BAD idea as it really would be something that would NOT please a Majority of Fans.

WOW, I'm still staggered by how incredible the costumes & props are!

Wish I was Stateside so I could purchase a ticket!

@Jonesy I hope so too! :)

Nice uploads!

I am lucky enough to own a copy of the Crew Insignia Portfolio.

I love the MediaScene cover, it's a Moebius concept drawing.

I hope Jonesy will be one of the characters by the way

Look promising and great. But is this game going to be a "book"? I don't understand. 

"The ALIEN tabletop roleplaying game will be a beautifully illustrated full-color hardcover book"  

@Ingeniero Sorry but for me your definition is not clear at all. You send to the general topic of cyber-punk which is interested in digital data with bio-punk concerned with genetic data and plain old body-horror.

Why I can say that the engineers are not biopunk? First we don't know almost nothing about them, or their society or how it is/was affected by technology. What we know is that some of them have been probably modified to have a alien type suit on them but what is it function we can only speculate, but it certainly not there for interfacing with their neural network (like in eXistenz for example) as they still use joysticks, buttons and flutes.

Not even the fact that the ship is grown is 100%, only Giger from the creator team said they were. But they seem metallic and it would be interesting to imagine a creature that would deposit metals in it's body would be like. How in Hell would they achieve standardization.

Yes having synths organic parts would be biopunk but that is only deducible from the Meet Walter disclaimer and mentioned probably in passing in the novel, but it is not the main focus of the Alien series. 

Other biopunk inspired things are Ripley 8 and the Modified Fifield and the Hammerpede and probably David's experiments, but the other stuff is plain old Body Horror. I'll grant you those can overlap in a Sci-fi horror movie, but these obfuscates the clear example part.

As for the xenomorph being a biological weapon, it would (as have been pointed out in the thread) destroy (take over) the whole world. The world would then be useless. You would then need another weapon to get rid of the xenomorphs.

However, the black goo would have the same effect. On Planet 4, all biological life (the fauna) was eradicated except the spores. This total extermination happened in less than 10 years. In order to make Planet 4 habitable again, you would need yet another weapon . . .

BigDave

Concerning Alien: Covenant, is there really some kind of proof that David created the eggs found in the cargo hold (if it is the cargo hold) of the Derelict on LV-426? In the novelization by Foster, we learn that he did not create the xenomorph. But what about the movie? Where is the proof that he created the eggs found on LV-426? Remember that we were supposed to forget about external sources, such as interviews with Scott.

However, if we do look at “external sources” we know, in “The Crossing”, that David learned about the culture and history of the Engineers (which is similar to human history with sacrifice etc) and which is told to us in “Advent”.

What David learned is about ancient Engineer rituals and experiments and the black goo created by the Engineers, which he then, since he has nothing better to do, uses to dabble with creation himself. His delusional mind even makes him create drawings of old Engineer rituals and “sacrifice” (murder):

I would say that the path (the origin of the xenomorph) is still open.

So where it shows her hands being all twitchy does anyone else think this might be a physical metaphor reference to her being a "Hyperdyne model" synth. Explains why she went rogue

"Yeah. The Hyperdyne Systems 120-A/2."
"Well that explains it. The A/2s always were a bit twitchy."

dk, the answer to your question:

The last xeno action didn't seem to make much sense imo (don't want to spoil).

Leto agreed! Alone was masterfully executed. The synthetic showed relatable emotion and motives that made her more of a sympathetic antagonist than David or Ash...more like Bishop gone amoral. 

Well done to the Alone team!

Of all the shorts, I would be most intrigued to see more of this story

"So, in a way, Ash bringing the xenomorph on board was all a terrible mistake. He had the wrong "organism," but did not possess enough data to recognize this.

This also puts a new spin on the trope of the Company's conspiracy-to-acquire-an-alien which is seen again and again throughout the films, books, and comics. Sure, ultimately, I think the Company would have been happy to get a Xenomorph (Burke seems to be operating with this in mind), but the "conspiracy" now seems to me to be more of a comedy of errors made by greedy individuals within the Company rather than by the Company itself as an entity."

That is an excellent observation regarding Burke and he potentially being the first to "recognize" the value of Ripley's information based on pre-Alien: Covenant interpretations ifox.

No one else seemed to be directing Burke while he sent out coordinates for the Jordans to investigate, below.

Once Advent came out, I was sure the Company knew quite a bit about the xenomorph and the Engineers by 2122 when going to LV-426.

Advent Special Orders Shown:

Special Order 754 - Surgical Investigation Experimental Trials

Special Order 899 - Rituals and Customs. Psychological Testing

Special Order 931 - Xenomorphic Entity Advanced Weapons Research

Special Order 937 - Priority one; Insure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable.

I think you nailed it ali81 with:

"the basic/ original xeno concept is, in my opinion, very old and david just creates a variant form or recreates one depicted in the mural."

That is a very astute observation made before Alien: Covenant came out. Great analysis.

Thank you daliens...it is what one does when sleep is a stranger.

Thank you for that I Raptus.

The site is set up similar to the real Weyland-Yutani Corp with Weyland-YutaniCorporation.space and BuildingBetterWorlds.space both acting as masks for SpecialOrder937.com operating underneath everything. 

The COMNET entries tie into the events in the "library" portion of the blog for easy research. I often cite quotes from the novels or comics in our discussion and wished for access to a central location for all literature quotes per piece for myself and others.

I tried to fill a void with the Weyland Corporate viral website gone when building the corporate promotional videos and website pages but the effort was for the documentation of events for our debate, to perpetuate the brand interest, and to launch it in time for the 40th Anniversary Alien Day.

Gattaca is a great frame of reference ignorantGuy in regards to the initial unintended consequences (workplace discrimination) of genetic engineering.

William Gibson provides such rich, tangent examples of what many would easily agree is cyber-punk. Neuromancer is low hanging fruit for this discussion (too easy an example) but I consider the Pattern Recognition, Spook Country, and Zero History series to be cyber-punk  as well.  

The tech in these books is not the exotic, embedded, imperfect cyber-punk tech described in Neuromancer.  I would consider the Pattern Recognition series to be cyber-punk because of the total embrace of technology by some of the characters to live their daily lives.

The spy craft, the treasure hunt for data...I consider early cyber-punk (Pattern Recognition is set in August, September 2002) because you have yet to see an overwhelming integration into biological systems like described in Neuromancer. This is one side of the cyber-punk spectrum in my opinion.  

Alien as Biopunk?

It is my opinion that the Engineers in Prometheus are some of the most egregious biopunks seen to date.

Not only does it look like they encode interfaces (through genetic engineering) into their LV-223 Engineer's skin but they also apparently use genetic engineering to grow a propulsion and navigation system, a 3-dimensional holographic interactive archive, and everything else seen in a juggernaut.

The Thing is such a great example of biopunk in my understanding of the concept but still behind the Engineers in my scale because the ship found in The Thing looked to be manufactured technology and not grown like an Engineer ship.

The Drew Berry: Animations of unseeable biology above is great because it shows a model of processes in our bodies and I would love to see something similar in Alien but with alien biological processes shown.

The DNA breakdown scene in the beginning of Prometheus was, in my opinion, a wonderful example of biopunk in action.

Walter above may be a transition technology with a portion of his system "grown" from the hot tub.

The Hot Tub

"More rectangular than circular, it was at present filled with the most expensive stew on the planet: an incredibly complex and astoundingly diverse melange of proteins, minerals, and assorted other biochemical spices that when solidified and knitted together would form the body of a synthetic.

An artificial human."

Alien: Covenant Origins, page 131.

"proteins, minerals, and assorted other biochemical spices" tends towards biopunk in Walter's creation. 

One can argue that Sergeant Lope was "biopunked" below but had yet to know it because his chest hasn't exploded out in a biomechanical blood fountain.

Thanks to Aristide Economopoulos | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com for the extraordinary pictures.

Look at the pictures below, what they did with Alien: The Play is truly awesome:

Amazing!

Nice one! Looks amazing!

Shirts looks great too!

I felt that this first episode was haunted by the dead Shaw and Weyland, which I don't think is all right for the prequels as they can't generate new roads to take.

but kudos to the creators of the animation.

@Ingeniero Maybe could you explain what do you understand by biopunk, because as a simple definition I could find is that it is a sub-genre of cyber-punk focusing on stuff related to genetic engineering. Where is that in Alien (maybe in 4)? But is predominantly featured in Blade Runner and Gattaca.

1.3 gig! Fark! i could get this printed large enough to cover the whole side of my works building......

I might just do that too 

Thanks again daliens, got it!! You're a Legend!

Ingeniero is this your website?! 

Nice work brother! looks legit amazing

Almost.

This is why having a clear, defined vision and direction for the future is important.

Titan Books had the right idea with the '2014 trilogy of novels'. Explore something new and show continuation. Not just random isolated books

Interesting. 

So Amanda is getting a novel now....so the only media format she has yet to be portrayed in would be film/tv...yet :)

Alien Prototype sounds enjoyable. I try not to be negative but really, another greedy corporate espionage /weapons testing -> steal the egg -> outbreak -> destroy the world Alien story.

Come on! This is the premise of almost every second Alien novel released.

The usual alternate being the 'anomaly detected on a distant world, unearth the ancient evil cache of eggs' troupe.

 This is almost as exciting as news of a new film!

RPG + Alien?! 

SOLD. take my money now!

Anyone know if it got recorded?

Great job, Ingeniero.

Now I see why you're been absent on the forum for a while, you busy little bee :)

NBHD above should read as NBHS (North Bergen High School).

Thank you dk.

Happy Alien Day Chris, thank you.

I felt I needed corporate direction with the Prometheus Viral Site gone. 

Siggy was there, on stage at NBHD, to introduce Alien: The Play:

“This is the night I’ve been waiting for,” Weaver said after taking the stage to thunderous applause. "I’m so excited.

“I’ve only been here a couple of hours, but I can tell this is a very special place and a very special town, and in a school like this, you have extraordinary teachers and certainly one of those is Perfecto Cuervo (who directed the production along with art director Steven Defendini).”

I want to play as the Xenomorph. If I can do that, then I'm sold.

Nice! Always love to see what other fans create to help keep the hype alive! Fantastic work, thanks for sharing this with us! Happy Alien Day!