Comments (Page 288)

"As I said the beast is cooked, but only so long as Fox recycle the creature. However, if the creature is evolved in some new, refreshing way that stays true to the core appeal of the franchise then the beast can become relevant and prominent again"

Indeed RS had indicated about this in some of his comments where he felt you could go a FEW MORE ROUNDS with the Xenomorph... but you have to Evolve it, he made a reference to that in one of his Interviews were he said the Franchise has to be about HIM, but you have to EVOLVE HIM... now this appeared to be about the Xenomorph, but it could have been about David but i feel that is unlikely and so he was referring to the Xenomorph.

REGARDING how we got Camerons ALIENS

Again i have to go back to that ALIEN in those days prior to Internet (Mainstream) and Smart Phones and so limited ways to communicate and get information..

Back then not every person who ever saw ALIEN would be aware of the Starbeast Draft/Plot or the Planned Separate Egg Silo and Temple.  And so what we was left with was the Derelict and the Egg Cargo and it was a case of where do we go from here...

Introducing the Hadleys Hope Colony Plot, helped to introduce us to the Potential Danger a Xenomorph Outbreak would cause, and then set up a Plot where we could connect with the Characters and Loss of the Colony, using NEWT as this Proxy.

Then we had to look at HOW to expand upon the Xenomorph, and they chose to NOT incorporate what they did-not from STARBEAST and they chose to not incorporate the Egg Morph from the DC Cut.  so then you would have to ASK.... how could those Eggs had came to be?

Then we have to consider most EGGS are laid by a Organism, which then means do we make a connection between Xenomorph and a Bird, Reptile, Amphibian and in doing so, we could look at how these Organisms go on to live a more solidarity Life Once Hatched and Grown to Adults.  This may suit the 1979 Xenomorph.  but Cameron wanted to introduce them as a Threat that could overrun a Colony and give us a Action Movie... and so introducing Multiple Xenomorphs who work together was the route taken.   And when looking at this kind of route then we could be led to this being a kind of Collective like a Bee Hive or Ant Colony.  and so going the route of the Eggs being more connected to the Insect Domain is what we got.   A Organism that would go on to Create Colonies/Hives like Termites and Ants is what they went for, as it shows the Threat the Xenomorphs pose when they overrun a world and follow a common Goal/Cause instead of acting Individually.    

So Logically it seemed Appropriate to have those Eggs come from being LAID.  The Starbeast/Alien DC method of Procreation of the Eggs was something different and interesting but it was something they passed upon.  And so a Egg Laying Species that would have a Queen that creates the Eggs and acts more like a Invasive Species is the route they went, as opposed to a Totally Parasitic Organism.

When looking back, they could have consider other ways that Eggs could have been accounted for.  Even the David method of using a Technology/Substance/Method of Mixing/Engineering Traits for a Perfect Organism and then using Egg Cells to infect these Traits into them to produce the Eggs.  Could have been explored... 

This kind of a Plot would have required introducing the Space Jockey ideally as a Race who would carry out such Experiments, were they could then require Test Subjects to Create their Xenomorph Eggs from.... and so introduce a Plot of a Race that would go around and Capture Humanoid or Suitable Organisms to USE their Egg Cells as the Basis to Evolve them into Xenomorph Eggs.  Maybe this kind of a Plot could have been better for a ALIEN sequel.

But then its a bit complicated, and a Egg Laying Queen Organism is a more simplified route..... but then so would have been using the Egg Morph route... a Simple Method that also would have introduced something Sinister about the Procreation... and to a degree followed STARBEAST only not as in how Civilized the Xenomorph could have become.

I think thats what BUGS a lot of ALIEN fans was the Potential to have the Xenomorph as a more Social Organism with Intent and Menace, rather than being a Organism that just Procreates on Pure Survival Instincts like a Ant Colony.  But there was not much in ALIEN or even ALIEN DC that would show us the Xenomorph was 100% a Intelligent Species like Starbeast had indicated. 

There was plans for this... but scenes never got shot... if ALIEN ended as RS had planed at One Point (Xenomorph Kills Ripley and then Impersonates he Voice to Lure in a Rescue Mission) then a ALIEN 2 would have gone a different route, to the BUGS.

But we have to accept what we got.... another thing to consider is back at the time of ALIEN Ridley Scott had looked at and wanted the Xenomorph to have elements of a Reptile and Insect i its Genetic Make up.  And so the Insect Influence was there in RS mind before Cameron and his Aliens came along.

"RS came along way later and wanted to do prequels. He lamented on how nobody perused the SJ and went from there. "

I think that was what was they had plans for, and at first the Prequels would have had something that would have pleased the Fan Boys... RS had even way prior to the Prequels, he had concluded that in his opinion the Xenomorph was merely just a Biological Weapon that the Space Jockey Race used and Engineered.

The Problem is ONCE we go this route and do a movie that confirms HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph was Created and WHY it becomes difficult to then Proceed with other movies after revealing the Xenomorph is to the Engineers just as a Chemical Weapon is to Mankind.  (i am talking about at the time the Prequels were being conceptualized).

The other thing not answered in ALIEN and something that had never been show was the Space Jockey Race, and so this is when THEY had agreed that you maybe dont need to do a Movie that has the Xenomorph, for us to find out who the Space Jockey was and then also potentially what role the Xenomorph was to them.   A Movie like Alien Engineers if this was made, would have had Xenomorphs but then it would have lead expectation that a sequel would have to also follow the Xenomorphs, because just as Gavin had mentioned a movie that contains the ALIEN Prefix would have been expected to have the Xenomorph, and then a sequel would also have to have the Xenomorph if it was a ALIEN Prefix too... but if the sequel they dropped the Prefix, it could make some not make a connection that its a sequel to Alien Engineers.

The dropping of the Prefix for Prometheus was intended to allow them to show us a Movie thats connected to the Franchise, but would not be going to connect directly to the EVENTS of Alien.  Thus setting up the potential to explore the Engineers and Steer Away from that Cargo on the Derelict.

But again FOX had decided to change the Plans again...

We can see the Frustration from RS comments about "I'll give them fu^^ing Aliens".   we can see that he felt there was only so much you could do with the Xenomorph and indeed the REASONS for WHY someone would Create it are FAR more interesting to ponder.  But certainly the Ball was Dropped as far as WHO they decided would be responsible.  A Interesting Curve-ball... but one that i think has Proved to be a mistake...

I think when we look at what becomes of the Franchise, we have to remember that its the Production Company who call the shots....  IF we do get a Alien Covenant 2 and Disney want to have David NOT revealed as the Creator and to introduce HOW the Xenomorph Queen came to be. Then if RS wanted to play a part he would have to try and make compromises, or just say the Movie has to be done MY WAY or i wont play a part in its Production.... Disney could just then replace RS with another Director instead.

Anyway sorry for going OFF TOPIC...

 Ridley Scott was busy and the reasons why aRidley Scott ALIEN 2 are similar to why PROMETHEUS 2 never happened...

I have to disagree and will not let Scott off the hook. Cameron had no shortage of demand at that time either and was busy. Scott had enough clout at the time to advance the franchise but chose to not do so. I like how the Quadrilogy played out.

Back to the OT- in hind sight, I think Scott cooked the beast if it has been cooked. He teased us at the end of Prometheus with the Deacon. AC was ok, but he may have done better to stick to his guns instead of saying "I'll give them fu^^ing Aliens". 

Disney could fund more fan created shorts- but more robust than The Crossing. It can happen- someone high up just needs to sign off on it.

Facehugger bombs- seems like a variation of David's black goo bombing.

You may say the scene didn't go on for the theatrical version, but Cameron shot it anyway - because Cameron is what he is."

This is about the whole Hadley's Hope/Newt's family bit. That whole scene fleshed out the movie quite nicely. It was probably chopped for time constraints in the theater. The scene mentioning Amanda was chopped too and would have been a nice addition as well.

facehugger bombs. that's messed up! 

stuff your vague chem-tails and cloud-seeding theories. get this up ya!

Love it!

They are in a PICKLE...

What is there to Celebrate?  a ALIEN 40th Anniversary could be in the Cards, i think thats Guaranteed as a Milk the Cash Cow.

They cant really do a Box Set of ALIEN to ALIEN Covenant... well again they could to MILK the Cow.... but it just wont work really because we have not yet had any Conclusion.

Maybe 2019 could be a year of Announcements to Expand on the Franchise... but i feel there is little chance its a Announcement of any Sequel to ALIENS, or ALIEN RESURRECTION or ALIEN COVENANT not as far as Theatrical/Movies are concerned.

But there are other Less Financial Risky ways to expand/explore the Franchise and maybe this is the ROUTE that Disney will be going?

Have to agree with BioDegradable 95% of everything mentioned in this Topic

Thats quite interesting...

It seems to indicate the Company Aim to Perfect/Evolve and Experiment with the Xenomorph... to then purely use it as a Bio-Weapon

Bombing Worlds with Canisters that hold Xenomorphs.. but then who against and WHY

What Conflicts and Reasons would W-Y have for doing such is  a VITAL part of what is going on, WHY would the company do such a thing?

The more we look at it.... the More a Secret Agenda by a Company ran by AI while Mankind is unaware seems to make more sense.

PERSONALLY....

The Franchise is quite Fractured as far as peoples opinions, and a  lot of people may dislike Camerons ALIENS but then a lot of people like it.

"Ridley Scott dropped the ball by not following up on Alien in the 80s- Cameron seized the opportunity to progress"

Not quite true/fair..... Ridley Scott was busy and the reasons why a Ridley Scott ALIEN 2 are similar to why PROMETHEUS 2 never happened.... RS was busy, after ALIEN he had a number of Projects, just as at the time of working on a Prometheus sequel RS was then working on the Martian and Exodus Gods and Kings but also we need to look at FOX for being the main ones who change things.. ALIENS Ended up different to a degree than what RS had thought a sequel to ALIEN would have been, and indeed Alien Covenant to a degree is also different to what RS had intended for a Prometheus Sequel.

But to be fair to Cameron, he had to take what he was given as far as ALIEN and look mainly at the Theatrical Release, and to interpret how to expand upon this  based off what ALIEN showed us... and you cant really FAULT what he did considering that.... HE and FOX could have followed through on ELEMENTS that was not included for ALIEN that was intended or indeed from the STARBEAST Concept which ALIEN came from.

If you looked at ALIEN with No Knowledge of the other movies, then you could imagine ways to expand on this , but then Camerons ALIENS would kind of make sense. 

Looking alone at ALIEN you would not be aware of the concept and ideas that Starbeast had and so Camerons Queen Concept made sense... and the ALIENS Xenomorphs did display Intelligence...  you could argue that the Original ALIEN (minus deleted scenes) showed the Xenomorph to be less Intelligent to Camerons BUGS and basically just doing exactly what the Xenomorphs in Alien Covenant were doing... which is KILL KILL KILL.

"How come Newt's parents found it suitable to go check an alien spacecraft with children on-board in their kind of "urbane" colony vehicle?

You may say the scene didn't go on for the theatrical version, but Cameron shot it anyway - because Cameron is what he is."

Just a case of sometimes certain things have to be done to drive a Plot Home... if the Jordans never investigated and proper strict protocols were in place to check the Derelict out then the lesser chance of the Xenomorph Outbreak and THUS we get NO Hadleys Hope Outbreak and death of most of the Colonist. Which would mean NO ALIENS movie as far as what we got.

Regarding the Xenomorph Scare Factors/Cooked.  

It has been Cooked a bit, its been shown and done over and over, relegated to a Bio-Weapon, that can be killed by Humans and Predators with the right Technology..

The only way to make it Scarier is to introduce a Purpose and Agenda for the BEAST which may have required looking into some Concepts from STARBEAST.... but it seems they stood by with the Status Quo that the Xenomorph was a Created Bio-Weapon.

Which then leaves us with the Purpose and Agenda behind whoever would CREATE such a Bio-Weapon as being the way to expand on it, and introduce us to something more Fearful and this is the Purpose they chose behind Prometheus and Alien Covenant (despite changes to WHO and WHY it was created).

The Holocaust was a Horrific Part of History , but it is the REASONS behind such Actions that differ it from a number of other Genocides, and its the Reasons for Hitlers Actions that are more Horrific than his Actions themselves.

Neca has shown third and final figure in upcoming Alien Ressurection wave. Ripley 8. And it comes with basketball.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrqnB3dnTRk/

This is just a prototype, not the final figure.

Epic

Very cool!

So great!!!!!

I thought it looked like concept art too. I love the facehugger-bombs in the last image. They look like the projectiles below...

It's getting intense.

Yeah, sadly I think a new film is the least likely explanation.

This is great.

Thank you Docking Ship.

Correct Leto!

Thank you dk. I adjust 2 different filters, as well as, colors and brightness on the images to bring out the detail in an attempt to give the images a more consistent look.

Amen BigDave and Thoughts_Dreams. The part regarding the experiments in Alien Resurrection should have been expanded more and I'm glad it was central to Alien: Covenant.

The problem with David is that he became "emotional". And this is 100% certain, because Ridley specifically wanted to explore a fair concept : what if such entity as David(essentially, AI) became emotional. Would we(humanity) not be fucked?

For starters, imagine the implications of a totally rational and calculating entity becoming emotional. It is the same thing as if an all powerful cliche old man with a big beard suddenly became jealous of Adam because he became impartial towards Eve. I wouldn't want to be Adam in this universe.

And we got an interesting exposition of David's descent in that exploration in the movies.

But David was not all that evil.

He was also delicate, subtle and even caring. He respected choices some people made. Not only he respected some choices of some people, he was willing to tolerate some people in their entirety. For instance, he even loved(in his own way) Shaw. Despite her being this ridiculous person of faith believing in something that had no evidence at the beginning - she was christian: she believed her creator was divine, loving and caring all that. Guess what her creator turned out to be. Now, would you say her belief was justified? How do you think David would look upon this after the revelation? ( Disclaimer, I am deliberating things in the movie. That is, do not try and read my attitude towards things too certainly )

Shaw was a person in a rotting human body with numerous gnawing vices and uncertainty, infertile(ironically, just like David she was supposedly unable to conceive an organic progeny, which of course is disproved in the movie, for both her and David. She gives life to a starfish, he - to a xeno.). Despite her suffering of hardships: setbacks and misfortune - she lost her mother and later on her father and then her partner, she still held on. Despite her giving birth to an aggressive and hostile alien organism(that organism was not going to spare her life), she persevered. I believe David admired her resilience. His remark "I didn't think you had it in you" - was a genuine remark, even though a poor choice of words. Right there and then he admired her toughness.

Despite her being infinitely weaker than him, she put him back together. And she did so without any consideration of the risks involved, even though she knew that she was risking it big time - after all, her partner suffered death through David's brutal experiment(was it ethical? unethincal? Did Charlie sign on the dotted line when he told David that he would do anything and everything to pursue his quest? You can argue that he did).

You could say, "alright, but she needed David's help to get off from LV-223, so she had no other choice but to put him together". Really? Having gone through all she went through, having lost everything she had connection to. Having been proven believing bullshit(and this is utter humiliation for her) would it not be just human and reasonable to give up at that point? Is this not enough aggravation for Shaw, or anyone? Being this beaten, broken and what is more depressing - seeing no way out? Everything has its limits.

But it turns out, for Shaw, it was only a short moment of despair : she had unexpected help from David, for it was his intervention that made her pull her shit together. It has to be pointed out that she never thought of David as a tool, property or some sort of nuisance - she treated him as his own person, with dignity and respect, unlike all other characters. David recognized grace of Shaw. And he respected her resolve on her quest of seeking answers to her questions.

There was a moment in the Prometheus, when the engineer was going for Shaw for a brief exchange of words on some issue. David, with his head detached, bothered enough to reach out to Elizabeth, to warn her. This, to me, shows that he had valued her. You could say that he was calculating the fact that she was the person who could help him get off this lost planet that LV-223 was. But consider this from David's perspective: what are the chances that she, who just had an emergency C-section, who was going on with the help of adrenaline injections, short on oxygen and was one third the size of the ogre engineer and had one hundredth strength  and power of the angry fellow, would stop and beat him in a hand to hand one on one combat? Practically, there was zero chance, and David knew this. The interesting thing to consider is this : David knew that she had diminishing chances and she knew it as well. So it is basically utterly pointless and extremely unrewarding even to try and change the imminent outcome. How about emotional? Then, even if she somehow stopped the certain death at the hands of the angry beast, what are the chances she would be willing to help him? Rather unlikely - it is a side bet on already very very unlikely bet. But still, he cared emphatically enough about her to warn her - to give her that one in million chance for her to survive, even if she doesn't put him back together - he chose the irrational thing and wanted to give her the chance, however small it was, even if there is no payback in it for him at all. It is extremely thin things we are talking about : irrationality vs emotionality. What was it that has persuaded David to reach out to Elizabeth?

Shaw, against all odds prevailed. She defeated that juggernaut and then, in the end - she still wanted to carry on and pursue her original quest, despite the fact that she lost everything. Despite her being this weakling, having suffered numerous setbacks and suffering, unimaginable for David, having no certainty of the future success she asks David to help her on her perilous journey. And he, knowing his own worth(for David there is nothing more valuable in the universe than himself - that is how much he values himself), agreed to assist her on their common path come what may.

David, at that point knew perfectly well already that her questions were meaningless. He also knew that any answer would be meaningless as well. Look, just for a second: Shaw can be likened to a person strapped with an explosive belt around her waist willing to give her life(and his) for a dubious cause. That is how ridiculous she was at the moment. Just remind yourself and consider David's vantage of her and what she asked of him. It is a big, big ask. Here she stood, in all her glory, willing to go on to god knows where, on a journey nobody knows how perilous and dangerous. And for what? What does he have to gain from such a risky proposition? She is literally no better than a religious nutter strapped by an explosive belt fortified by an unfounded belief ready to commit suicide. After all, her religious belief that her maker is this divine being has been just turned upside down, hasn't it? Does all this instill confidence and prudence in that belief of hers and her mission? Is it rational and smart thing to do? To risk everything and anything for nothing. And yet, David gave his consent to assist her on her journey. What was that? Certainly, this is irrational. It doesn't compute . This can be explained by David being emotional. By him not being indifferent towards her - she swayed him. And it has to be her and not her quest, because her quest is already deemed meaningless by him. So it is her and his bond to her person. Btw, do you know who and when makes such vows? Here is the part of the text that is read out at such ceremonies and it should ring a bell:

"...from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part..."

So, David was indeed shown to be having feelings towards Shaw. I bet he would do a lot for her(this is an understatement) if she asked of him to find a way for her immortality. Which is probably what he did anyway.

David was well written but it seems most of the writing focused on that. If only...

The teasers all had better character development in general than the finished movies. And that's what they ultimately did- tease.

Black Mirror is worth getting Netflix imo. Imagine the Alien universe with unknown actors and good writing, characters and production. One episode would be about xenos while another would focus on Weyland Yutani. After that, there is all manner of cool commercial free content. There, Netflix- shameless plug. Where is my discount lol!

Game (i hope) or comic book. Maybe TV series. But definitely not AC sequel.

Agreed.I'm behind on novels but recent comics have been quite good.Haven't seen Black Mirror but i know it's a Twilight Zone Esq anthology series.Sound idea to be fair.

I never saw the Terminator series, but the Alien verse could be done Black Mirror style and appeal to pretty much every faction of the fan base.

Novels are fine but I like the video medium- just a matter of opinion.

Thought provoking comments here- Nice! It is always fun to ponder David/Walter.

 He doesn't need religion. He doesn't need to be indoctrinated any falsities - he has power to learn all there is to know in the universe. He knows his story of origin. He has all the time in the universe.

Fair point. What david did lack, as Walter pointed out, was basically routine maintenance/upgrades. Ten years of not doing so apparently made David more than a little loony. He actually became a dangerous villain albeit a fascinating and charismatic one. 

It does look like game concept art but who knows. It has a vibe of Black Mesa/Half Life/Half Life 2 and that is a good thing.

I don't think 2019 will be a big year for the franchise. Not to be a Negative Ned, but I don't think we need a 40th Anniversary edition either. The blue ray Anthology is King imo.

I would actually like to see a series of some sort.

I think all figures should come with stands. My AVP, Covenant and neomorph didn't have them, I would gladly pay an extra couple bucks for one.

I will meet you half way. I never saw Avatar except for a trailer and some bits playing on TVs at Best Buy back in the day and was not impressed. Your comments strengthen my resolve to never watch it. I have to respect the gobs of cash it raked in and how theaters built screens to accommodate it though.

I agree, Gavin

My opinion on James Cameron as a director and "Aliens" as one of his works won't be changed.

I don't actually care about an Alien Queen created by Cameron (too humanized for a perfect organism that could have been conceived as a hermaphrodite and didn't need a subservient court of males around), as much I don't actually care about AVPs and games and the sort.

But the real point is that, no matter what I think, Cameron will win in the end (for he is a big shot at Disney now, with his everlasting/family friendly AVATAR) and his fans will eventually be confronted with his final vision of the Alien with shooting Marines and the whole package they've been dreaming of.

What comes next?

Let's just wait and see - consciousness beats hope every time, for the former knows, the latter is what it is - a dream of an awaken (but not necessarily conscious) man.

We could all argue both for and against James Cameron and Aliens, but I suspect regardless of what anyone says ScorpioStar's opinion of Cameron will not be changed, no matter what the argument.

But, in a vain attempt I will say this - Cameron gave us the Queen, which has been featured in Alien 3, Resurrection, AVP, AVPR and referenced in Covenant, nevermind its numerous video game and comic book appearances, whereas the adaptive nature of the Xenomorph hinted at in Alien, with the exception of Alien 3's dog/ox-burster was not revisited until Prometheus and Covenant.

Also, for better or for worse because of Aliens, we got Halo and Starship Troopers.

dk,

I respectfully disagree.

Cameron is, when I think of it, a block buster director who is so lost in his own lack of mind space he insists on the same title on and on again (AVATAR).

I won't say Sir Ridley didn't make mistakes - his "Exodus" was a historic mess. But when it comes to versatility and mindfulness...

When it comes to movie language...

Go check on IMDb.

Pleople here think on Cameron just because of "Aliens", I despise him (as a director) not only because of that.

But now Disney and Avatar Cameron will get it their own way.

Mark my words and see how bitter the end will be for the rest of us far left behind... - and, maybe, just maybe, you'll be among us.

The second one is already up go to Alien Anthology instagram or avp.com!

^ Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal.

The figure stand that came with Alien isolation xeno broke really quick. My runner alien doesn't need a figure stand because it stands really well without it.

Since runner doesn't need a stand, I found some other use with it.