New Replies (Page 395)
The ancient alien theory is interesting but leaves much unanswered. There is also the idea that these aliens may have had more nefarious things on their minds.
Regarding religion and hard science, it is interesting to note that science admittedly evolves with new findings while religion remains static regardless of developments/evidence.
"The novel is in many ways superior, as it actually resolves several issues that cause gaping plotholes within the context of the movie."
Alas this always seems to be the case, they have more space to explain stuff in a Novel, the same thing can be said regarding the Draft for Prometheus, it explained many if the silly moments etc in a more better way. Sad that some of the more important things are left out when a Movie is Shot.
Regarding the whole Lovecraftian Themes i am not expert on the subject and i do need to read more of his works...
I will kind of agree with some of Lawrences points, but i cant speak for them as far as how Lovecraftian they are it does appear that David felt a Outcast, its implied that he felt he was not treated as equal by most Humans, yet he knows he is Superior. I would say that he had started to get Emotionally Attached with Dr Shaw, because Emotionally he had very Human Emotions that Evolved over Time and he certainly had some DADDY ISSUES and so after the death of Weyland he was Free, and seeing how Dr Shaw Treated him, he grew fond of her and we can assume they started to build a better relationship.... until David maybe miss-took this as being able to go further than Platonic which could well have been seen as Disturbing by Dr Shaw, and if she rejected his advances this could certainly have a negative effect on his Psychology. The thing is David is more than a Robot, some people think he is just a Stupid Crazy Robot, but he is a AI with such Advanced Emotions that he is constantly learning and taking on board Influences much as Interactions and Influences can Shape a Child into the kind of Person they will become... The Problem i think is the AI Circuits and Technology that David is comprised of simply cant handle all this Emotional Input, and i think this is where MAINTENANCE could have helped. I think Davids Upbringing, how he felt about Humans, and then Dr Shaw and feeling maybe Betrayed by her, as well as years ALONE and with no Maintenance have all lead to the Way David had become VERY BROKEN. I agree he had become a bit of a Mad Scientist/Dr Frankenstein kind of Character.
I am not so sure we can conclude that Learning the Engineers ways had lead to the way David was however..... i think a lot of what we need to UNDERSTAND as far as David goes, is he is now Free and Sentient and he only has his own Goals/Agenda, i would not be surprised that learning the Engineers ways has led to David conclude these Would be Gods, are nothing of the sort and are just similar to Humans in many ways. I think David has a Godlike Complex, Certainly sees himself as Superior to Engineers and Humans. He may have learned about the Pathogen and viewed how the Engineers failed to be able to Create Something they cant contain/control as a sign of the Engineers inability to Survive and so as David can see he could make better use of their Pathogen then David would see himself as Superior and even maybe views this all as his Divine Right to Carry on as a Creator himself.
I have to say regarding Davids Creation of the Xenomorph, is interesting on one hand, but not very Lovecraftian we can see Prometheus and Alien Covenant do maybe touch on these themes a bit, but they are still FAR of as Lovecraftian as the Derelict/Space Jockey or indeed many of the works that HR Giger has done..
Hopefully we can be introduced to a more Alieny/Giger-esque and Lovecraftian themes in future movies.
I think there is a interesting Story to be Told regarding the LV-223 Engineers and Planet 4 ones for sure.
I think the comment RS made regarding how the Planet 4 Engineers are the Original Engineers, the comments regarding the Hall of Heads being Superior Beings, Apostles and Wise Men and indeed Ridley Scotts comments regarding the Engineers being Genetic Gardeners and how the LV-223 Engineers are FALLEN.
Certainly means there is some interesting not explored BACK-STORY at play.
Is what that Story is a Mirror of what we see with Davids Arc and Story?
Nice work, they are looking more Polished with each NEW video you make ;)
PS Wonderful Poster Dark Nebula ;)
I think its a interesting theory.... when looking at Evolution there are a few flaws with it, and as Science keeps evolving they keep changing the GOAL POSTS so to speak....
The other side of the Coin is Religion, and while for many Atheist/Scientist the whole Biblical Accounts are very bizarre and contradict what Science has discovered to a degree, we have to remember the Biblical Accounts are NOT the only Tale of Creation and NOT the only Tale of Ancient Gods.
There are some similarities between Ancient Cultures and Religions, that could be merely Coincidence.. but it does leave the Door Open to explore a possible Connection.. and that is the ANCIENT ASTRONAUT theory.
Which Fundamentally is what PROMETHEUS was about.
I personally find Religion Flawed, but when looking at every Mythos/Legend/Religion there are many connecting themes, purely Coincidence? who knows.. when i look at Evolution there are some flaws, and as with the notion of IS THERE A GOD! We dont have any 100% Proof, the same can be said with the BIG BANG! This theory as well as others regarding Evolution are always Evolving as Scientists Ponder New ideas, that change what they First Thought when Science looked at this THEORIES.
Having a Extraterrestrial Element like Prometheus showed us, is a way that can Bridge the Gap between Religion/Mythos and Science. But again we have no 100% Proof that this is actually the TRUTH either.
Fair enough- its not that i necessary believe ancient alien theory, but it does raise a lot of questions and evidence on it is actually very convinving. would be interesting to know what these 'aliens' were like if they did exist.
I think it depends on how we view what we saw in Alien Covenant, and if the actual reasons for what we got are the same or similar to what i assume below....
They was going with the route of David Creating the Xenomorph, and if there really is just 3 Movies until we get to the events of ALIEN and Alien Covenant is the First Step in these Prequels, i guess its a Question of if the Alien Covenant Xenomorph was identical to the ALIEN one, then its a question of how many times can THIS Monster be portrayed on screen NOW we finaly see it as it was in ALIEN, how often can they use this Monster prior to ALIEN and so would having 3 movies with the Xenomorph from ALIEN be a good idea?
Going the route that the Xenomorph Origins are via DAVID is a Bold Plot, one that has certainly displeased more than it has pleased, HOWEVER... with the AC Xenomorph looking more Organic than the one in ALIEN does leave the DOOR OPEN to change the Plot/Origin it leaves it more open to show that David simply just RE-CREATED the Xenomorph, or have the Engineers/Related Race (Space Jockey) involved int EVOLVING Davids Creation to get to the Classic Xenomorph from 1979.
If the Design of the Xenomorph was exactly the same as in ALIEN then it would pretty much limit the options to the Xenomorph being 100% Davids Creation, as opposed to the design they gave us leaves room for it to be a Re-Creation or have it require some more Tweaking/Engineering to get to the Classic Xenomorph.
The Faster Gestation/Growth rate was a bit different to given LORE, and would fit better with something that has been EVOLVED/RE-CREATED if the Xenomorph gets Evolved to the Classic One but takes a Longer Gestation then would this not be a Step-Back? Unless its explained that a Truly Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph would take longer to Gestate than a Organic Xenomorph due to the Bio-Mechanical Elements. The CHEST-BUSTER again was a strange one, it would look like something that has Evolved from the Classic Kind, as if this Xenomorph Evolves to become the like Serpent-like Chest Buster from the Franchise it could look a little less Evolved, but maybe the Classic Chest Buster design is better suited to Survival while it grows to Adult, something which the Xenomorph in AC does not need as it grows very fast.
Ultimately the real reason for the changes i think, are that the NEW Chest Buster was designed to mimic its Adult Form, and designed like this so that they can show it COPY David so that we can see DAVID is acting like the PUPPET MASTER/CREATOR I feel the Gestation and Growth rates were Necessary to fit within the time restraints of the Movie and have the Plot not get DE-railed from pacing, because a traditional Gestation and Growth Rate would mean a extra 12-16 hours for the Covenant Crew to be stranded on Planet 4 inside that Cathedral Building.
The NEOMORPH i actually liked the Designs and how it was Procreated, i feel the IDEA/CONCEPT was good but i feel in some Shots the CGI was just not as good as it could have been the same can be said with the XENOMORPH too.
The ENGINEERS looked different to what we was shown in Prometheus, they certainly looked more Human, and Varied more in Size, was this just a Oversight? To save on Budget for such a Short Scene that going the WHOLE Prometheus Makeup for the Engineers would have been more costly and time consuming that the way RS had decided to show them in Alien Covenant was more convenient?
But this does leave some Visual Differences, the whole Lack of Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic and Technology apart from the Docking Ship and Juggernaught, is something else that disappointed some fans, but these with those Engineers and RS comments does leave it very open to have us introduced to another Faction/Caste of Engineers and explain the Bio-Mechanical Technology, it also leaves the LV-223 Engineers as being Genetically Engineered and thus those Planet 4 Engineers versions of a Replicant/David.
So these changes can lead to a interesting way to explore/explain why there was this DIFFERENCE
So these differences do allow for Plot Twists and Explanations to allow for something different to be explored and introduced over the next TWO movies.
If the Engineers looked like the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus, and they had more Bio-Mechanical HR Giger Aesthetic to their City and Technology, but they was STILL DESTROYED by David and if the XENOMORPH looked exactly like the one in ALIEN then these could kind of reduce the potential for some interesting Plots, during the NEXT TWO movies were they could give us a Explanation/Reason why the Aesthetic was different between the Planet 4 Engineers and LV-223 and likewise the Planet 4 Xenomorph and LV-426
And the Engineers on LV-223 were called "sentient" beings in the Weyland-Yutani Report. Just saying.
I believe the Thanos skin tone differences can be explained by the dimmer switch he installed next to his galactic throne and the LED lights he installed in the vault where he keeps his glove.
The mutations are great.
The last image looks as if the organic and the inorganic material was mutated together...(a biomechanical mutagen)...thank you Dark Nebula!!!!
"Though Alien III may not have been what the producers were looking for, it may have been what they needed. Perhaps a comic-book adaptation could be in order? A novel? A fan film? Like a facehugger lying dormant in a cryochamber, it’s still out there, lingering in the backwaters of the internet, just waiting for a host to give it life."
The answer to at least one of your questions above is yes.
I love how a facehugger was hidden in Bishop's entrails in Gibson's script. To me, Gibson would most likely get a Blade Runner-type film from a script written by him and the article mentions the lack of cyberpunk in the Alien III script. He definitely wrote in the gore but I do wonder why he held back in the synthetics/constructs area content in the script.
I can't imagine anyone would argue against William Gibson's ability to pen cyberpunk and his concepts sure fit better now in the direction the franchise (Alien) took.
There are also morphs on LV-223 that I believe I read needed no host for birth in the Prometheus: Life and Death comics, below.
The Alien universe is anything but normal Ati. Thank you.
I have to work the David adaptation of Pestilence: Death of the First Born (William Blake original below, 1805) image into the film too. I thought the presence of a pyramid in the image fit the franchise as well.
The image above will actually have a part in the film related to my theory that Special Orders may be AI speaking to parts of itself and The Creation of Neomorph image will be part of an Advent type message read only by the Bishop Artificial Persons while keeping Michael Bishop unaware of it.
Dark Nebula created the movie poster with the Bishop Artificial Person and the artwork under his eyes might have a little better context with my explanation above (hopefully).
EE BAFTA Film Awards 2018
James Ivory accepts the Adapted Screenplay award for
Call Me By Your Name:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUSFqi3bhzs
True, Scrolls, that is an Alien Covenant poster made for a competition in Australia - if I remember well.
Bizarre but looks awesome:
BigDave - And look at David's son in the background. :) Look at how happy he is. :D This is the moment when the fungi make you happy. 8D
Indeed he has!
They went down a different evolutionary path than us based on whatever different stresses/needs they encountered. Our evolution was brain based.
It's incredible how wonderful all of the concept art for AC was and how lame the chosen ideas for the actual film are. RS has to go his present work is just so blah compared to the options that were presented to him.
Red0guy nailed it on Lawrence lol
Yeah I'm sorry, I misread, I meant you red0guy. I 100% agree with you, and not Lawrence.
I thought the reaction you wrote to Lawrence was written by Lawrence because the name was shown big and green. Shame I can't edit my posts to rectify this.
Once again, I agree 100% with red0guy and not Lawrence of Arabia.
Lawrence is one of the biggest AC apologists on this site, he is in love with David the android. I was the one how rebuked the lovecraftian themes, as opposed to Lawrence who copy+pasted things from wikipedia to demonstrate how lovecraftian AC is.
A bit of a mixed bag to be honest.
I feel some concepts indeed mimic the work of Giger, while others have that generic hollywood monster feel to them. I personally was way more impressed by the concepts of Khang Le.
@BigDave
I'm afraid you might be right. It seems as if Fox has completely lost sight of the project and its direction and focus.
It doesn't help that for some reason the worst and most lacking script iterations end up to be the final product.
Had Alien Covenant be more like the official ADF novelisation it would not have been as problematic a movie as it turned out to be.
The novel is in many ways superior, as it actually resolves several issues that cause gaping plotholes within the context of the movie.
After the version of Alien Covenant we got, things simply don't make sense any more. It uses elements from Prometheus, but doesn't follow up on it in a satisfying way.
Neither does it tie in with any other pre existing canon up to this point.
It is there and totally disregards anything that came before.
With its implications it rather contradicts the themes of Prometheus.
The movie is also frustrating because it deliberately leaves out any significant or conclusive story elements.
Like Lawrence of Arabia already mentions, it is as if Ridley Scott and Fox were trying to troll the audience.
And I also agree 100% with Lawrence that this movie isn't smart or lovecraftian or philosophical in any way.
Even though Ridley Scott and his production team seem to take several influences from literature, poetry and imaginary arts, referencing great artistic achievements of others, doesn't automatically warrant a good movie with substance and depth.
Yes thats if you believe in evolution but in this case we are discussing the possibility of the ancient alien theory- its for a project. Why didnt the other primates evolve like we did?
I do like the visual connection to both Fifield's mutation and the far too huge Trilobite creature in Prometheus.
Why not both A5 and Prequel 3? Just schedule them a year apart. Both would be welcome in almost all fans eyes, however A5 would probably rate better with general audiences who remember Aliens, yet didn't get into Prometheus. They would probably compliment each other financially too. It's a no brainer in my eyes and I can't fathom why Ridley has a problem with Cannon as he seems to have such scant regard to his own. Perhaps some jealously and or narcissism is at play here..... I wish producers would just butt out and stop the artistic flow. They truly seem to ruin rather than foster great cinema recently, Ridley included unfortunately.
Beautifully rendered and conceived designs. Not sure about the eye like structures on the head, they do however hark back to one or two of HRG's Necronomicon paintings. Beautiful.
Well, I think we can agree on the possibility of a cave under the derelict? David might travel to Origae-6 which could, in fact, be LV-426? Or he could go to LV-223 and get some more pathogen? He could then get a juggernaut as well. He has 2000 colonists to experiment on. Daniels might give him a queen and the problem with all the eggs would be solved. Even eggmorphing would work (2000 eggs)?
How can you compare to process of gradual enlightenment of humanity in 2001 with the creation of a parasite without morals and culture who only wants to survive in Covenant?
You copying the characteristic of lovecraftian horror does not make for explaining how AC is lovecraftian. Sure w e have an insane character in David, but he's the antagonist, he destroys the Engineers(elder gods my @$$), which judging from AC, in the story's present, are some space hippies. He is said to become insane because of lack of maintenance not because of "learning of their way" (if that is so insanely awful who could they live peacefully on Planet 4?).
The idea that David, a human made synth, created the Lovecratian monster makes the universe pretty much human centric and the Engineers in the moral right to want to destroy them?
David becomes alone by his own hands (Killing Shaw, etc..) not because he is shun be society which is the case with the lovecraftian "hero". His victory over the gods is easy and pretty much final, and he will fall because of his hubris not by some ancient unstoppable power.
Where is the slime (excepting the Protomorph's saliva) in AC?
David is more like the titular character in Herbert West, reanimator the least lovacraftian short story from HP Lovecraft and a spoof of Frankenstein. In honesty, I did felt that AC in parts is a spoof of the Alien series (also there were people who felt this also and said that AC was made to mock the people who wanted Xenomorphs in Prometheus - I don't agree with this however).
How is this story about the created surpassing the creators? The humans are not superior to the Engineers, how managed to survive for millions of years without destroying there own planet and are capable of interstellar flight since God knows when. And why is David superior to humans, he takes notes with quills on scrolls, he mixes and matches DNA of several creatures to make the xenomorph (not design it from scratch and 3d print it, or what ever), he recite poetry which he does not understand. His immortality is also only in his head (as he would have died after Prometheus if it wasn't for Shaw) and he needs periodical checks from humans.
Quite the contrary to 2001, this is the story of sentient life downfall.
That looks great too Dark Nebula. The Prometheus blue works with the jacket worn by Bishop in Aliens. I love the logo. Really nice work.
You're welcome Ingeniero, I'm grateful :)
After seeing this I quickly made a banner version, it's the same as the poster I just added the credits and your logo. If this is really necessary.
Just a quick edit.
Indeed, i said this a number of times that ULTIMATELY the Studio has the biggest say.
Visually RS does a great job, he misses out on the odd flaw in detail, and certainly Scale problems, but he really is only as good as a Script is.
If there of the Magic Variety count me in ;)
Ha Ha yeah ;)
I still think Gonzo really is the Space Jockey
"This whole explaining the Xenomorph pathos is stupid and disrespectful towards Dan O'Bannon first vision"
I would totally love to see them get back to O'Bannons and Gigers ideas, but its a case of if we will see that...
I agree its a bit odd to have Synthetics Reproduce... but seeing as though RS is running with Sexual Feelings with David, and how the Xenomorph is lacking that Bio-Mechanical Atheistic, i was pondering the introduction of a Female Synthetic Construct, part Organic part Synthetic who turns up and David tries to Seduce to his Side, like he did with Walter but failed. David would use the same tactics that Satan did with Eve to get her to Eat from the Forbidden Fruit... so David can get her to take his Side, DAVID Finally finds a Female Companion who sees his side.... only she ends up being the QUEEN to his Project, which is something David did not want... He was willing to use Dr Shaw, and Daniels as he cares not much for Humanity, he cared for Shaw because he felt SHE was DIFFERENT towards him.
So yeah my idea would be that David Falls for a Female Synthetic Construct but she gets infected as she is Part Organic/Synthetic then this SHOEHORNS in the Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.
"With your reasoning, one might consider "The Crossing" to be non Canon simply because we don't see certain scenes from that little clip within the final movie of Alien Covenant."
I can see where you are coming from and i can agree with The Crossing etc.. my point is not really my view or opinion, well not how i like to interpret stuff, just how i feel the Production company have gone.
INDEED we had those clues, but they removed the Viral Website but someone did a Backup, the Original URL just redirected to the Alien Universe Website and Walter Virals, it was like they was removing the Prometheus Marketing from Canon. So my point was that Ultimately as they go along they can remove what ever they want from Canon... and replace it with what ever they want.
THERE IS NO 100% Proof... in regards to Theatrical.
*David could not/did not create the Xenomorph
*The Derelict/Space Jockey has been on LV-426 for a long long time.
*The company are aware of LV-426 prior to ALIEN
Many more but i am not in the right frame of mind at the moment... via DRINKING lol
I 100% agree they should have considered continuity and lore, i just FEEL they are Re-writing the History and if doing so then some extra clues like the Viral Sites for Prometheus would contradict the route they are taking with Alien Covenant.
So nothing is REALLY Official apart from what is shown in the Movies, by that i dont mean any disrespect i am just saying how they could go, we could get NO Alien movies for 10 years and then they reveal the PREDATOR created the Xenomorph, which would then be a case of NOT having previous clues that Fail to show this, but in how Previous Clues Fail to Disprove this.
I think the Direction they have taken is a bit flawed, as the Clues pointed to a Ancient Event and Ridley Scott even confirmed it, but ALAS when they worked on Alien Covenant they changed their minds.
