Comments (Page 398)

But certainly Characters and how they are used and written is something that has to improve, but then we have suffered with Sub-Standard Characters since Alien Resurrection, where every movie since has revolved only around 2-3 well written Characters to a degree.  Only Alien to Alien 3 had the Characters been done well.

Totally true Dark Nebula, thank you!

I like the creature in the first image very much. It should have been used in the movie in my opinion.

I think it depends fan to fan, some like Mystery some like stuff more Spoon Fed, and i feel Prometheus maybe needed to be a little less ambiguous but some ambiguity is still needed.  I think a BIGGER problem stems from what the movies Plot and Dialog points to compared to some contradicting/ambiguity that can lead to to view those Plot Points and Dialog a bit different to Visual Clues and then comments by Ridley Scott etc can make things even more ambiguous.

This applies to Alien Covenant too, while the Movie sets up certain events that lead us or intends to lead us to one conclusion, there are clues that the keen eye will spot that offer some conflict to certain things (such as the Origin of the Eggs), then we have the Novelization that seems to point more towards those Eggs being something the Engineers Created, but then you have Ridley Scotts comments that point to something else.

Then you will always have fans who are set in their ways of HOW they expect things to be, and so they was maybe not pleased at the Space Jockey = Ancient Bald Humanoids, the same as the Black Goo = Xenomorphs that are a result of David using the Pathogen.

I think the ambiguity is wonderful myself... because a little more Spoon Feeding and we may end up with the Following.

Engineers Created Mankind, Mankind upset them 2000 years ago, Engineers Created a Bio-Weapon to Destroy us thus LV-223 is/was only a Bio-Weapons Facility.

David takes Engineer Ship to their Home-world, Bombards the Engineers who were welcoming a Military Faction back, and then via the Pathogen Infection and experiments with the Black Goo David creates eventually the Xenomorph.

AC does leave some ambiguity to what if the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus took place on Planet 4, and also maybe those Engineers on Planet 4, had already had Xenomorph Eggs...   But its if you look deeper at the inconsistencies between Prometheus and Alien Covenant Plots, that set up ALTERNATIVE explanations...

Which my theories seem to be based off....  Basically is the Juggernauts ARE-NOT Machines of War, but the nature of the Engineers Seeding and Evolving Rituals/Technology could be used as a Weapon, but "To Create One Must First Destroy"

Big Dave: A certain level of ambiguity is not wrong but Prometheus was too much. I am not sure who told the writers to make it more loose but I think that was a bad thing.

Right now my main hope is that they get the characters right because they obviously can do monsters.

An android movie would be boring as hell, to be honest. I am not interested in a Blomkamp kind of movie because that would most likely be like an Aliens version two. Unfortunately AC was an android movie disguised as an Alien movie but it was mostly about David and Walter, a lot of it was boring so I do not want to support anything like that again.

"Ridley Scott seemed eager to film the next Alien and they should allow him this one more before he starts with Merlin."

Not if that means another android movie with flutery. If Scott wants to do android movies then let him do so but keep that away from the Alien franchise.

Thanks for the link to the pictures.

I will probably always dislike the raise up the arms and say hi to David – scene, it looked dumb. The morph at the ship looked interesting.

I have never figured out if the cave was a part of the planet or a part of the ship. The cave is really big so I am not sure how it could have been a part of the ship.

Kane said that it was a cave of some sort. To me it was like it could be that but it could also have been something else. He probably compared it to what he had seen on earth so that is the kind of thing that he could compare it to. Until someone that worked on the movie says something about it I guess that we will never know but I do not think that it matters.

I found the scene but I do not want to show it since Fox or who ever might take it down.

To me it is like they never thought about the issue of scale. Maybe it was like people just had to accept that it was a part of the ship but it was too vague but it leaves it up to the individual to decide. Perhaps this could be compared to the issue of the size of the Engineers in AC compared to the SJ and the one in Prometheus.

Actually it is interesting that we are still discussing this about 40 years after the movie was released. This could tell us something about its impact.

Yeah it would be better if David did his own version, a robot as a maker of the Xeno is just bad.

What the hell is brownie points? That word almost sounds like shit stains

"You have now gained ten brownie points which means that you are disqualified! You’re out!”

The pods were interesting, I did not get the connection between the pods and the Giger drawing but I see that now. It was too dark so I did not see the pods in the tree trunks. Unfortunately we did not get any connection to those that were infected by the spores.

Interesting concept artworks.

Some of these can be found in David's lab:

Carlos Huante:

Based on the Space Jockey But Not the Space Jockey - The Creator of the Engineers?

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47330

Carlos Huante:

Based on the Space Jockey But Not the Space Jockey - The Creator of the Engineers?

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47330

IRaptus - I would like to see a live action Dead Space movie. I love the first Dead Space anime, too!

PROMETHEUS 2 (PARADISE LOST) UNMADE - Art by Carlos Huante

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47405

Carlos Huante Art - ALIEN COVENANT

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47404

Bigdave, I wish. Those designs would be great too. Too bad I don't think we will ever see that. It would be incredible to have a Space Jockey race that does the design justice instead of the Engineer copout design. Then maybe would could also get a Ultra-morph. Maybe in the future a new director could go back and interject that as a side story movie. 

Maybe they share some DNA with the piranha from the dim and distant past.

Nice catch, Big Dave!

I never realised it and after reading your post, I firmly believe that it was some of the left over Black Goo urns which got tipped over and spilled all over the place all the way down stream and mutated the fungus pods which came across. 

Till now, I had theorised that after the Black goo was bombarded, killing all the humanoids on the planet, it settled down and the remnant black goo mutated the fungus pods. But that doesn't sound as a likely scenario.

Awesome movie!!!

die hard fan of Pacific Rim and last part was so awesome that I had seen three times

Adobe Photoshop customer service

Batchpool

Very interesting pictures and ideas! The egg chamber drawings suggest that they originally intended to go by Spaiths’ script which I think would have been a better movie (although Prometheus wasn’t bad)?

The egg-making device also suggests that the intention from the beginning was that the eggs were produced there - in the (portable?) silo - and that it was not a part of the derelict? As Ati points out, Scott still has an option (if ever there will be another movie connecting to Alien) when it comes to who created the eggs that the crew of the Nostromo encounters on LV-426?

For me it looks like an alien movie is not in Disney's plans for the moment. They want to stick to family and kids friendly movies as they did so far. If Merlin would be a success they would rather do a sequel of it than an alien one.

Fox should not have sold to Disney. Greedy basterds.

Then there is the Dead Space boss of similar appearance also

BigDave

Or on the other hand it could bomb, as almost any arthurian did stuff in the last 20 years. What was the last successful medieval fantasy series, Lord of the Rings? Good luck for Sir Scott, but things will be though, especially if he does not give a d@mn about it.

Not talking about David's bombing which infected the whole city and the mountains around it...

I jumped to the same conclusion BigDave. :)

@Critters5

Thanks for the Video Link, i actually found some of the Comic Depictions not to good, i would however like to have it revealed the Space Jockey Race is another Race that are either above the Engineers, or the Engineers Stole Technology off, or vice versa.

I would maybe still go for a Space Suit but have the beings inside look less Human than the Engineers, because when i look at HR Gigers Concept, the Space Jockey looks like a Suit, well it looks Bio-Mechanical like the Xenomorph and so not a Skeleton of some Organic Organism.

I do think some ideas from the Comics could be used, such as the Space Jockey Telepathic Ability, if one comunicated with a Human then we would not need Subtitles as we could hear a voice inside the Humans head etc.

I also like the Space Jockey idea of appearing as Benevolent but then having a hidden Malevolent Agenda.   The Space Jockey very HR Giger Aesthetic World would be something interesting to see too.  I have only read one of those comics but i have seen the images from the others and so back ground information from them was interesting, it appears some of the Atheistic and Scenes from the other comics  MAY have influenced some of the Back Ground Plot that Alien Engineers/Prometheus had explored (but not the creation one off course), the one Space Jockey Born Xenomorph does look similar to some of the unused ULTRAMORPH designs too.

@ATI

I can see how that kind of design would fit, because the Space Jockey was the same color as that part behind his back, so we can see how some have designed some ideas that incorporate it as some kind of Back Pack or Shell.

I think these are better designs than the Comics used in that link Critters5 posted, but i would like to see the Space Jockey revealed as some 12ft tall Bio-Mechanical being, much like the Engineers suits, but have the Helmet look more like the one in Alien and the Color a bit different for the whole Creature.

But have it as a mask all the same but under it something not so Human at all.

I think this is interesting News, mainly because Ridley Scott can show Disney what he is capable of, and if the Merlin movie is a Financial Hit, and RS does a great job in directing it and the visuals, then this would gain him BROWNIE points... with Disney.

Which could mean RS could get one step closer to eventually continuing his Alien Franchise Prequels.

That reminds me a bit of Ridley Scott ;)

Also Batchpool neat idea about the separate Egg Silo.

about 5-6 years ago maybe a bit less we had Topics regarding the Egg Chamber and back then i brought up the THUNDERBIRD 2 Ship from Thunderbirds, and pondered could the Derelict Actually attach to the Egg Silo, maybe it does not fit all the way inside like Thunderbird 2 Cargo, but the image of when Thunderbird 2 is raised above its Cargo and about to then drop down onto it, reminded me of maybe how a Separate Egg Silo could attach?

The Egg Silo likely being round in shape, either like a Flying Saucer or a Ball/Egg

However..... even if we think about something like this, the size of the Egg Cargo as shown in Alien would be much larger than the Derelict.

Ive used this Art by Yurii lebediev Organic UFO and if we assume the Egg Silo is this size i have added what i think the Derelict is likely like compared.

I would not take this size comparison too seriously though, i just have a feeling the Alien Egg Chamber appears to be Circular but then it does not quite fit a Donuts Shape, the impression from the Long Shot where Kane Descends is maybe the Cargo Holds are Shaped like the Flower Cake Maker.

Where the RED is the Section we only see, the Dots to show where the Eggs are LOL

So indeed i think again size wise the Cargo Hold would be too large to not only fit under the Derelict but also even as far as a Separate Caro Module, it would be too large to carry but we dont know what Engineer Technology is capable of.

So a Separate Cargo Module the Derelict Collects cant be ruled out, but i think the Theory that the Egg Silo/Chamber is separate seems more suitable.

I think the most Lazy Fix they can give is introduce a more Ancient Juggernaught type Ship that is exactly like the Derelict, but have it appear much larger inside when its explored and also have the Cargo Hold made a bit smaller, but still much larger than you would assume would fit, and EXPLAIN these Ancient Ships had a Technology to make Something Larger inside than Out....  Like Dr Who's TARDIS 

A mutant monster baby from The Rift:

Who knows? Perhaps it will be reused, too.

Thanks for those images Batchpool

The first of greater interest as this SET was used for both the Egg Silo and Pilot Chamber, they simply swapped out the Eggs for the Pilot Chair Platform, the whole set is cut off about Half Way.

The shot above is a Matt Painting but they modeled the Set that we see Kane actually walk down and enter the area of the Eggs, was replicated to match up to the Blue Line.  I am sure they then used the same SET for the Space Jockey Scene where the Platform was placed where the Green Oval is.  So it would appear that the Pilot Chamber was very Large too. As far as if we could have panned to the left and right and looked up.

But in Alien we did not get to see much of the room, and so i think the Alien Isolation DL Marlow and Derelict game content maybe did a good representation of what it could have looked like, i think the Bonus Game did a very good job of the Egg Chamber.

The MOST INTERESTING element of the Game Extra is as they lower themselves into the Cargo Hold they actually go past what looks like a Cave, well Lime Residue of some Caves.  But the same kind of feature starts at the top of the Hole, so maybe its the Acid Burnt Hole but it would take some LARGE Acid Spill to cause that much.

Check this out at 14 Min

Updated:

I'm going to add something new to the topic: I think the trilobite and the mother creature from the Alien rip-off The Rift (1990) look similar...

Batchpool - Thank you for these concept art! They are from 2011, probably they belong to one of the first versions of Prometheus taking place on LV-426:

'the Engineers were farming eggs well in advance of David'

Before entering the egg room in Alien Covenant, David touches an egg in the lab - not the sliced one. It's only a moment in the movie. That egg had been made by the Engineers, then was found by David on Planet 4. It seems to be obvious that the Engineers are the creators of the original eggs, and David recreated them.

In spite of this fact, it is impossible to tell now who the creators of the eggs on the Derelict are. They can be the Engineers, or David, or a third unknown party as well - since the Engineers could have found the original eggs, too. In short, anything is possible...

Would be interesting to see a 3v3.  The Xeno's would likely set a trap and the overly aggressive Proto would rush in guns-a-blazin.  Although it seems with what I know, that the fight would be a race to the bottom.  They kill and don't hunt, so food would dry up.  I wish the original film would have addressed this lifecycle issue.  I think it may have been planned but they shelved it.  If you consider the deleted scenes, the Xeno made eggs, then seemingly prepared for death until Ripley bothered it.  Points to an insect type lifecycle.

BigDave - Thank you for sharing the scuba diver space jockey images. I like the design very much. It would be good to see this version in the Alien prequel.

Just having fun on a slow day, but DK - we all die, so I ask what was her kill count at that moment?  And in addition, she killed 2 queens.  But if pressed to get back on topic, I would say the Xeno's perceived cunning would prevail unless sheer numbers (a hoard of animalistic protos) overwhelmed it.

Well this topic has certainly got my old brain cells working. I prefer to go with the idea that the cave is a manufactured storage facility. After thinking about this as a design problem, the main issue I see is, how does the derelict connect to the egg silo?

Given all the issues with scale, I find approaching the problem by treating the silo as an external structure to the derelict opens up some interesting possibilities.

In Alien the Nostromo was capable of towing an entire refinery, so could the derelict have been capable of carrying a portable egg silo ? Could the silo then be detached from the derelict for it to go an get eggs from some where else and then deliver them to the silo for storage? Looking at Giger’s original egg delivery system it would seem logical that the derelict was there to deposit eggs rather than remove them, but that is just my interpretation.

The thing that jumps out from all this is that it seems highly unlikely that the egg delivery system is a result of something that David has manufactured, which leads me to conclude that the Engineers were farming eggs well in advance of David.

From Giger’s original drawings, Kane would also have descended from the derelict into the silo via an egg shute.

Here's some great pre-prequel Space Jockey info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCK8gqdpezo

BigDave

Thanks for the illustrations!

I suppose we must assume that the derelict is identical to the other juggernauts (except maybe for size)? In that case, there is no cargo hold under the pilot room (if we go by Prometheus) but there is a space thereunder for the pilot chair which can be raised when travelling? The hole which Kane enters is at one side of the pilot platform so there is no room or hold under there? If you continue down the hole, you go through the hull of the ship and into the rock under the derelict and eventually you end up in the cave? Unless there are two storage rooms beside (one to the left and one to the right of) the storage hole for the pilot chair? But they must be way too small for the huge cavity that Kane enters?

@daliens

I could try and give my two cents to some of those Questions, but it may end up being a bit off topic, but if anyone wants to know my two cents i will post them.  I will roughly cover the Derelict Ship though.

Indeed the idea was TWO separate locations, and HR Giger would have began Production on both the Egg Chamber shots and interior of the Derelict, prior to finding out that they have to combine them as being in the same location (on board the Derelict).   I ASSUME the Acid Burn Hole was necessary in the Pilot Chamber if they are going the route to show the Cargo Hold is under the Derelict due to Kane having to descend.  So they would have to come up with some way of having a Plot Point for how they would get from the Pilot Room to the Egg Chamber.  I will have to read the TWO Alien Drafts to check this out though.

so we are left with the Acid Hole, that appears to be burnt down so its LIKELY the Acid Melted downwards, what can cause this?  A Wounded/Dead Xenomorph Organism, be it Adult or a Face Hugger.  I struggle to see how a Face Hugger would create that Hole however.   THUS leaving the ACID HOLE one of the Bigger Mysteries we have never had a answer for... apart from in one expanded universe Novel, where it was a Killed Xenomorph via a Firefight.  That happened way after the Derelict Crashed... if i remember? I have not read the Novel and just only a broad synopsis and few Plot details.

One last thing.... the Space Jockey color does not match those Engineer Suits which have also been there for THOUSANDS of years, this is a Great Point.... however, only the Space Jockey and part of the Chair he is attached to have that Bone Color to them, the rest of the Chair and Chamber is a similar color to the Juggernauts.  Which has led to some speculating the Space Jockey must thus be similar to this image.

Ridley Scott had Explained the Space Jockey Event in a bit of detail after Prometheus, but i wont cover it now as what he said has no bearing on the Franchise now with the U-Turn that the Xenomorph is a Creation of Davids.