Comments (Page 459)
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@dk, I work with subtitles. My client sent me "Twin Peaks" (2017 - first episode only) as they sent "Kangaroo" for me to create a subtitle template in English to be translated into other languages.
2) The Ultramorph idea was a Xenomorph type Organism Birthed from a Engineer, thus the Deacon is a Ultramorph to a extent.
Will we see Engineer Chest Busters? maybe.. but i think this would be saved until the connecting movie to Alien, if they are still going this route...
Will we see Xenomorphs that look like the Ultramorph Concepts? I really do hope so...
ScorpioStar When you say working with Twin Peaks, how do you mean?
Is it the same capacity as KANGAROO?
@Ati,
1) 1973, perfectly correct, my bad :)
2) Yep, older than you thought :)
3) If I am older than you thought, I must say CONGRATULATIONS, you are far older than I am (for you thought I was younger than I am, how come?) :D
4) Mangas 4EVER!!! Loved your pics!
5) I must ask again, when were you born? ;)
It's so funny - I wanted to include/recommend the original French movie 'The Day of the Jackal' in your thread about fav movies/shows. If I know correctly that was made in 1973 if we talk about the same film. I love that movie. There are so many French movies I love! Can I list them? :D
/ps: I thought you were younger./
/ps2: I am much younger. :)/
BigDave - Ok, Dave, but I was writing about Vicker's dreams while she is sleeping and enjoying her cryo-pod...
Ingeniero - No doubt, we deserve some AU spin-offs with Alien characters.
For example: 'Early Adventures of Ash'...
Ingeniero - Ash was made by Hyperdyne Systems.
'It is later discovered that Ash is not human at all, as he appears, but is in fact a Hyperdyne Systems 120-A/2[3] android, who is acting upon secret orders...'
Ingeniero - 'It appears that Bishop, like Ash, sleeps with the crew'
I always enjoy your ambiguous sentences. :D And together with that Aliens still... :D Awesome.
@dk, no magic survives the lack of notion that "one of a kind has no number 2".
BigDave -
'I think the next two movies would indeed give us some insight into what the company knows and give us the background reasons for Special Order 937 and what events lead to this issue being sent.
I think having a lot behind the scenes revolving AI is something that will be explored in the next two movies.'
I have the feeling that you know something.
Well, none of the directors seem to like what the others did. I like the Quadrilogy warts and all. I don't think that magic will happen again with this franchise regardless who makes it.
@dk, my point, exactly.
And, why not to point out THELMA & LOUISE.
It feels just like Cameron, Blomkamp and the sort could ever do something like ALIEN without a master behind it...
I read the original script for ALIEN - without Sir Ridley, we would have... who cares, they (Cameron and Blomkamp) are having their time...
My point was that RS wanted to focus more on Engineers but FOX wanted monsters instead- yes, they own it. They should have supported his vision more. In hindsight if we look at the numbers, it seems to bear out.
@dk,
A seasoned director means you must have a beast when you don't want one when you make a movie.
ALIEN belongs to FOX.
Guess why Cameron and his puppet Blomkamp are still around...
My only issues with Sir Ridley is not adding cuts with deleted scenes for the last two movies- both would benefit imo. The other issue isn't totally on him and that is being trusted to do the movie he wants to do. It is understandable with newer directors but he is a seasoned one.
Cameron, my opinion, is not a director, He's a parasite. Just like Blomkamp. About the ALIEN, both don't know, for they never really cared about the ALIEN to beggin with.
My opinion - and I am a Sir Ridley person. That's why I am still here. This site used to be called PROMETHEUS 2...
I forgot about Terminator- loved it! I still haven't seen Avatar and never will- not my thing from clips I have seen.
Regarding Cameron, I don't worry much about what directors do as long as I enjoy the movie. To his credit, I still want to see his movie Deep Sea Challenge. I can't find it on Netflix though.
@dk,
So sorry, and I mean it.
ALIEN is my guideline. James Cameron is just the guy who, in a perfect world, would have done something better than mess with what he can't control - if not, most of the fuss wouldn't be happening right now.
Go to IMdB and check what the "creator" of ALIENS has been doing...
You were born in 1968, I was born in 1967, and, everything shows, we both love movies.
But, for me, apart from TERMINATOR and AVATAR/TITANIC (what a trash, both of them)... Cameron just has too much money, and I have been searching how much money he is trying to invest in the so called "ALIEN(S) 5. It does not look so good.
Just how it worked out. I don't regret it.
@dk,
Did you?
1968?...
So sorry to hear you saw ALIENS and ALIEN 3 before the first and only...
Did you, at least, have the chance to watch the one and only "ALIEN" trailer BEFORE the ones you mentioned saw?
1968... Seriously? ;)
Unsure. It is the only series I think watching the prequel last is best.
I too saw Aliens and Alien 3 prior to Alien lol.
@dk,
My question to you: Would "Cube Zero" have ever made sense without "The Cube" in the first place?
What I feel is that many people here saw "ALIENS" before "ALIEN" - it does happen, you may know.
Probably Cube Zero I saw a few nights ago. I don't get caught up in series shows because of time.
@dk,
When was the last time you were (really) taken aback in terms of what is out there?
Mine, the time I had the opportunity to work with 'TWIN PEAKS' 2017.
1968 here. I agree movies and shows were based more on strong stories and characters. Remember the impact a typical 25 minute black and white Twilight Zone had (still has)?
I don't quite agree about present day if I am understanding the topic. Hollywood in general seems to have been in a creative rut (action/effects heavy) for some time but it might be my jadedness too. I see many very good independent shorts on You Tube so there is hope.
I'll look into that Ati. Great question.
It appears that Bishop, like Ash, sleeps with the crew (enhanced below) unlike David or Walter.
Yes BigDave. It looks like we are heading toward a more clear picture of AI's role in executing (or maybe crafting) special orders.
I believe Ridley Scott alluding to a movie centered on AI is his repetitive way of provoking debate by enraging different segments of the fan base. It is also clear we are headed toward seeing a queen so I must warm up to that with David's plan for Daniels and the Covenant colonists.
We may see a world built by AI in Alien: Awakening but I am sure that the power supporting AI's throne on this world will be based on xenomorphs....wielded like a weapon or AI's total immersion into Engineer technology. David has shown he is able to swim through the Engineer tech and has also shown the weird affection towards the beasts. So, in my opinion, I believe we will see much of both in the next film.
What's the point? (Ash quote, LOL) It is fun to see if my preferences in Alien movies have changed or if they stay the same and how that is compared to other peoples preferences.
Nice work with the pictures Timmy the Ultramorph, I like it.
My list is as follows
1. Alien 3 (assembly cut and the original but I think that the assembly cut is better) – I like how hopeless it is and so. I like that this is the end of Ripley (until they decided to mess it up with AR). Even if the prisoners have done some nasty things they come off as real persons too and yes there are differences between them as far as the personalities are concerned. Clemens works as a character and I like his backstory plus that he is a bit different compared to the rest of the prisoners. 85 works as a company man and is far too trusting in the company but he gets his in the end (I won't spoil it for those that haven't seen it). He is not evil, he thinks that he does the right things but he finds out that he is wrong but then it is too late.
I like how they treat religion in this movie and I also think that the religious leader (Dillon) fits into this, his character as a spiritual leader is interesting. Speaking of religion, I think that this movies does that a lot better than Prometheus simply because the characters are better written because no one is annoying in this movie, but that is a matter of taste. They have to try twice before they kill the monster, that is a huge plus because that shows that it is a bit of trial and error and that makes the monster smarter compared to if they would have killed it the first time.
2. Alien – the one that started it all. I like the Giger aesthetics and who can forget the scene when they get into the room when they find the dead pilot that is sitting in the chair? That scene is filled with mystery which I hope that they won't ruin wen they are done with the prequels. One thing that I like is that we only hear when Lambert and Parker are killed by the Xeno, it makes it better because then we get to use our imagination which is better than if we would see it. Poor Ripley, she must have been even more scared when she saw their corpses. Alien is one of the movies that never gets old for me at least.
3. Aliens – This was my favorite movie until some years ago. I like that it is somewhat different compared to 1 and 3 because it wold have been boring if they would have repeated the first movie. James Cameron etcetera did a good job with this one. It is probably the movie that I think have the best quotes and it also has many interesting characters, especially Vasques and Hicks. Ripley is also developed in this movie and is somewhat different compared to Alien and she is also taken on a journey in this movie although she is probably one of the least interesting characters I this movie, at least to me. What happened to Jonesy? ;)
4. Prometheus – it has some interesting ideas but a somewhat disappointing result. I like David and Janek, both Elba and Fassbender did some great work here but unfortunately that is not enough since most of the characters come of as dumb, incomplete, or annoying. The character building worked in Alien 1-3, so what happened? The landscapes are very good looking and I also like the idea of exploring the Engineers, something that turned out to be OK but there were so much that was unanswered or was left vague. Lindelof got a lot of shit for this one but I don't think that it was only his fault. Another thing that I like is the idea of the black goo but I understand if some people think that it doesn't make sense. The more that you watch this one the more sense it makes but that requires too many repeated viewings which many people might think is too much so I don't blame them. A lot of deleted scenes should have been put in this movie since they make more sense to the story and seems to build up the characters, something that this movie really lacked. Who the F edited this one? This one takes the prize for having the dumbest lead character this far in the whole franchise.
5. Alien Resurrection – Oh no, this is not good. Here is where the franchise started to go to shit. The CGI or what ever it is called seems too artificial, like it would fit a comic book movie better. It is almost like they looked at the Alien franchise and tried to make it into a comedy (a guy in a wheel chair that talks funny, a basketball scene that doesn't make sense and what the F). The skin of the aliens look like they have been cut from a plastic bag (imagine the scene where they try to control them by some sort of ice mist). We get the newborn which looks like a monster made of clay with some skin that reminds me of some grilled chicken combined with mustard. Even Sigourney Weaver which I liked in Alien 1-3 can't save this movie. (“Who do I need to fuck to get out of here?” Maybe not an exact quote but that is almost what she says.) What happened? At least it has Winona Ryder and the underwater scene.
6. Alien Covenant – fuck, crap, shit. This movie was so disappointing so I can not find words for it. This is the movie after Prometheus where they were supposed to go to the Engineer home-world but David killed them in the beginning of the movie. AC starts with a reparation of a ship and they pick up a signal, which is an interesting beginning. Instead of going to the planet that they originally planed to visit they go to another place that I call the David planet because I don't remember the name of it there they walk around and shit happens and then they find David which they follow without any questions not even when they see the fried Engineers do anyone ask any question what so ever. The only character that is human that has any character building what so ever is Oram which I think was interesting as a religious scientist but he was too naive. Alien Covenant could be called the David and Walter movie because that is the only thing that Scott seems to give a damn about here. The lack of well-made characters is so disappointing especially since Alien 1,2, and 3 got it right so obviously you can write good characters so what happened? At least they were not as annoying as in Prometheus but they do not have any distinct character traits that stand out *sigh*.
Another dumb thing is that there is a woman that goes to clean up herself, totally alone in a dark place where they know that there monsters and of course she dies, it is like “oh well another death, I guess that we go on with the show from here”. It makes me annoyed, not pissed but a mix of not totally angry but somewhere between disappointed and angry since I want to be as rational as possible and not get carried away with emotions. A good idea was to have many of them being couples but since we have few well-developed characters it almost means nothing. I like that there was a gay couple that was new but I am not sure why they are at a colonization mission where they are supposed to populate and start families, wasn't that what it was about? What is nice about the couple is that they are not being written as effeminate guys but more like regular everyday persons, that was nice. One of them as named Lope but I forgot the name of the other one, probably because he didn't leave an impression on me what so ever because of bad writing. Since this is an alien movie there is gore and that but what does that do when there is no character that we have much connection too? This takes the prize for having the most anonymous main character (Daniels) what was she about? I only understood that she wanted to build a cabin on the lake with her husband (the thirty seconds captain that died that by the way had more time in the extra material that wasn't in the movie, duh!) and that she got sad when her husband died which was sort of sympathetic but we as an audience had no connection with him what so ever so that didn't work that much for me at least.
The switch in the end was kind of interesting, not for me but I felt for Daniels there because she must have been scared (who wouldn't in a situation like that?). Unfortunately not Daniels nor Tennessee had any writing behind them as characters, can someone name any character traits that Tennessee had? I can't see any, oh he has a hat. I don't blame the actors, the material was simply too weak. Now we have three underwhelming alien movies in a row (AR, Prometheus, and AC) I hope that they will do better with the next Alien movie but I don't have a lot of hope for it.
7. Alien versus Predator (2004, not to be confused with Alien versus Predator Resurrection) – A spin-off movie where they for some reason decided to throw in both the Predators and the Aliens which might be an interesting idea but that doesn't work as a movie. No one of the characters stand out even though we get Lance Henriksen as Weyland. They get to Antarctica and then they get to the Predator ship or pyramid or what ever it is. The Predators fight against the Xenos for what ever reason that I don't understand maybe they want to tame them for what ever reason. None of the characters is any memorable what so ever and even the Xenos are lame. Why the hell did they decide to have it on earth anyways? After a bunch of scenes where anonymous characters die since we get no connection to them what so ever the surviving human get some sort of spear from the Predator in the end as some sort of gift. I have not watched this movie for a long time so my memory of it is not very good but I remember some parts and I definitively remember that I didn't like it very much. My friend has this one so I borrowed it since I like some of the the Alien movies, so at least I gave it a chance but it was a disappointment.
It is good if movies about AI don't draw a big audience because then it might make those at Fox force Ridley to give the AI thing a lesser role than he initially planned. The robots were more interesting when they were a part of the story but still had a limited role.
So I read at some other pages about it. Eventually it is from a book that features some form of artificial intelligence so I will not watch it. Ridley Scott's interest or attempt at hijacking the Alien franchise and make it into the AI show has made me less interested in the topic since I associate it with a franchise that is going wrong because of a one-sided story masked as alien movies.
This is probably unintentional by the one that posted this thread but this thread gives me advice about movies that I should stay away from.
Ati is partially right when he says that a reason why those movies might do bad is because they have to compete with bigger movies. It might not be because people are less interested in AI. With a lot of money comes advertising and PR that affect interest so that is to be consider also but yeah it might seem that not as many are interested in AI as Scott is.
Ooops, I forgot about this part. ;)
"They were essential to the plot."
It does not matter since the majority of a movie is about a mad android. You can say that the emperor was important with his plans in Star Wars 4 since he gave orders to the empire but we didn't see him, he was in the background. In AC everything else was put in the background to push the David story so the rest became secondary to that.
"philosophical mumbo jumbo"
Another phrase for "some boring shit", which unfortunately sums up a lot of Alien Covenant. Yes there were some good things but the movie in general was a failure because they did not learn the lesson from Prometheus (namely that you need interesting characters for a movie to work). Philosophical parts can be interesting if they are done right and have humans as the focus but AC didn't.
I frankly believe that what he wants to do in the next movie is shit.
“He honestly seems to believe that he has made a brilliant horror film and that the audience just happened to reject that.”
It seems to me that he hasn't learned his lesson. Why can't he understand that he made an error with Alien Covenant? It is like you ride a train at full speed against a huge mountain (making a movie and releasing it but many consider the movie to be shitty) but you avoid to turn left or right (don't change even though many say that it is crap) because you believe that you can smash it anyways (make movies that you find intelligent and believe that you are ahead of everyone else), that is just mad. Not only was AC underwhelming but Prometheus was too, and they have the same director. Coincidence?
The alien was badly handled in AR and AVP but it wasn't made a lot better in AC. I understand the idea of not wanting to do 100 Xeno movies but you got to replace it with something more interesting but they have not done so with the AI part because of mostly bad characters and too much focus on AI. You got to have a balance, they did this fine with Alien 1-3 when the AI was a part of it but not 70% of the total story, there is no balance right now but Scott doesn't seem to understand that nor have I seen any mention of it in any interviews with Scott what so ever. Why can't any interviewer simply mention to Scott that the human characters in the prequels have been paper thin? Are they not aware about this or is it just another ass-kissing contest? Sure it can be interesting but you got to have interesting human characters and that has been lacking since AR.
Who made the Xeno could be hinted at but I don't want it to be made by a mad AI because it is boring and it is too close to the humans if it is a result of human action. Monsters are usually more interesting when they are from far away (they are you know, alien), which is in part what made Alien 1-3 work.
Prometheus was not successful (Scott claims so in about 3:05 into the clip). It made money so it was successful in that way but it made the Engineers look worse than they could have and the human characters were thin as I don't know what. If he thinks that the only thing that people disliked about Prometheus was the lack of Xenos then he is totally wrong, a lot of what I have read at the Internet at least is that the characters were lame, again and again you read something like “Idiots go where no one have gone before (something like that)” and still he thinks that the reason why people complained was the lack of Xenos? He seems to have totally misunderstood what the criticism of Prometheus was about. In a way AC was worse since it messed with the alien lore and made the Android a part of it, screw that.
Scott talks about reintroducing the Xeno (about 3:20) as if peoples complaints were that there were not enough Xenos in it. He doesn't understand that the characters were mostly lame (Prometheus), that to me was a lot worse than simply not having any Xenos in it.
http://www.gavinrothery.com/my-blog/2012/6/11/so-what-was-wrong-with-prometheus.html
Here is a quote which sums up my biggest problem with Prometheus:
“So pat yourself on the back if you said the biggest problem with Prometheus was the fact it didnt have the alien in it.
Then kick yourself in the balls for missing the biggest problems.“
https://io9.gizmodo.com/ridley-scott-admits-fan-backlash-over-prometheus-influe-1795126523
“This is the moment when I abruptly lost all sympathy or empathy with the characters, because they were all clearly idiots. “
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/17385/reviews/prometheus-a-litany-of-stupid
“most of the characters literally serve no purpose and are defined by one character trait that they remind the audience of every ten seconds they are on screen. “
http://whatculture.com/film/5-reasons-why-prometheus-is-a-god-awful-film
The same could be said about Alien Covenant by the way, so they didn't learn their lesson. This is not empty rhetoric, watch the two movies and think about how the characters are made. Do they have some different character traits or just a few? Can you sympathize with them when it goes bad? Why or why not?
“The characters act so stupidly. I mean, even by blockbusters' standards. “
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/3xmgui/why_is_prometheus_a_bad_film/#bottom-comments
“There are also some bad sci-fi plot holes and the characters were not realistic in any sense. “
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/3xmgui/why_is_prometheus_a_bad_film/#bottom-comments
Do you see what I am getting at? A lot of people seem to have less problem that there was no Xeno but rather it seems that far more had a problem with stupid or uninteresting characters but no, Scott etcetera learned nothing from it and we almost get the same problem in AC. *sigh* At least they characters in AC were not as goofy and stupid as Fifield and Milburn but you got to aim a lot higher than that. Just because some things were better in AC compared to Prometheus doesn't mean that it is good.
Having David as the creator of the Xeno is lame. Scott might like it (3:32 into the clip) but I don't, it is really bad and ruins a lot of what is interesting about it. That could have been a lot better given another explanation I bet a lot of people could have made it more interesting. “At the idle hands of the Devil's workshop.” So now the Xenos is not only a result of a mad robot but the explanation is that he had nothing better to do than to mess with some biology? What a crappy explanation, a thirteen year old could probably come up with something better. Even if the Xeno would have been given an explanation that the Engineers did it at least that is better because then it has less to do with human action (we seem to get the explanation that humans invented AI and the AI invented the Xeno, bleh).
“Cooked it” well, ironically they made it worse by having it being killed in a lame way in AC (that crane thing). If this is the way that the prequels are supposed to be when they are all finished then I guess that they will make AR look good in retrospect.
"I think AI is becoming much more dangerous and therefore more interesting.”
To you (Scott) maybe, not to me. I do not watch alien movies to get a robot story.
". . . i think RS could explore a connection between David and the LV-223 Engineers..."
I hope that the Engineers do us a favor and kill David in the most gruesome way possible. I am tired of the robot story.
“Where is your passion about the genre, Ridley?”
It is with that robot crap. Where is my pillow? *Falls asleep from boredom* ;)
"And Ultimately i am waiting for the reveal that the Company is being ruled by Machines while Mankind are oblivious so much like a MATRIX kind of Plot."
Boring, keep that to movies like Terminator.
"After this movie I pray they give the series to a new director who does not hate it so much."
Yep, Scott is one of the reasons why it has gotten worse.
"The FRANCHISE does not have a massive base, and none Alien Fans have not Flocked to take interest in a Story about a Rogue Robot."
Exactly this, the android tale is not interesting at least not in the context of the Alien franchise. Please get rid of it because it is boring the way that it is now and it doesn't include enough of the Human story (notice the capital H).
I would also think that it could be interesting if they show us more about the black goo and the Engineers, that could be good if it id done right. The major problem with Prometheus and Covenant was not the lack of Xenos but more about the lack of characters. Letting us know a bit more about the goo at least what it can be used for could be interesting. Some people might not find that to be interesting but it could be if it is being done right, which means that it has got to be base o more than some random ideas. It got to make sense
"Xenomorph says he will do another Alien movie with no AI and no Ridley."
Ha ha ha! :D
"David 3"
Ha ha ha! Thanks Critters5
Yeah, if they are well done and make sense to the story then sure. AR is the only movie in the franchise where they have had an underwater scene this far if I remember it correctly. It had some claustrophobic thing going on but it could be done in another way, please don't copy it. What about mutated lifeforms that live in the water that are mutated by a disaster that involves the goo? Space piranhas on steroids?
One thing that I like about the alien movies is that they have different environments in each movie. In Alien you have the ship, the SJ ship, and the planet. In Aliens You have Hadley's hope and inside the ship and so on. Different environments is the thing in each alien movie this far that they have in common.
Some people here have said that you need something new in the next movie so a planet with a lot of water and caves or what ever could be interesting.
Ali81: I agree, that scene would have made more sense that way.
Franchise film? So 'Alien' series is just another 'Friday the 13th' or 'Nightmare on Elm street'?!?
Why would any director want to direct this shlock?! Forced to show Jason, Freddy and the Xeno.
Yea, that's why I was interested in how many species the Corporation had encountered and why the xenomorph is so worth the trouble lol.
Awesome points Joylitt
murnau If as a director you want to have that type of independence, you just don't do a franchise film. Just do an original. Why try to cash in on the name alone? When you are in a franchise you have a responsibility, you either abide by the rules or get fired (Kathleen Kennedy knows something about that)
