Comments (Page 58)

Well its Pretty Much Speculation by me looking at the Clues and what would make Sense.  I think that what had Happened during those 10 Years between Prometheus and Alien Covenant would have Warranted a Novel to give us the Answers... this would be MUCH CHEAPER than a Movie.

There are a LOT of Details within Alien Covenant and if we look into Davids Notes and the Time-Line... Details that are Overlooked or we simply have to IGNORE.

There are some who SIMPLY look at it that it took David like Years to get to Planet 4... and so WAY LESS than the Covenant Ship had done... REALLY?

Some look at it that this took David just Days from when he left LV-223.... but if you look at the Clues it indicates to me that David and Dr Shaw had gone back and Forth to LIKELY the Life-Boat to get Various Stuff to take with them, this would be done over the Course of a Day or so.....   The Dr Shaw Birthed Deacon (Via her Trilobite Child) had taken Days to Gestate and so they would have LEFT before then and David could tell Dr Shaw that the Engineer and the ALIEN that she had GAVE BIRTH too have both Died.

Looking at the Clues... it seems that David had Helped Dr Shaw to Leave LV-223 but then he had NOT shown her HOW to get to the Engineers World... it seems that it had TAKEN her Many Months out in Space Floating in the Juggernaught before David had Persuaded her to PUT HIM back together... and then that SHE would NEED to go into Cryo-Sleep for the Journey.

Both UNTOLD Stories are NOT something you could Execute in a Movie where you have just the TWO CHARACTERS for like 70% of the Movie.... but they are STORIES that could be TOLD in a Novel.

Cheers Xenotaris....

I will be making some Topics maybe to Debate some things that are Abandoned within the Franchise, i feel the Prequels will NOT get any Closure and will be Removed from Canon.

Only TIME will TELL....

I Certainly think to have the Xenomorph running Amok on Earth some 20+ Years before ALIEN could be a MASSIVE MISTAKE.

Regarding Blomkamps ALIEN V i think there was Potential, i just dont think you had to BRING BACK our Ripley... but Originally his Idea did-not Feature her and it was Miss Weaver who Persuaded him to include her.

Blomkamps Idea set between say the Year 2200-2250 and on a Research Planet or Base that is NOT on Earth.... with the ENDING being this Place is DESTROYED... and in a PLOT that does-not have RIPLEY etc.... i think it WOULD have Worked.

Such a Direction would NOT have Conflicted with ANY of the Franchise.

The Noah Hawleys idea would Work to a Degree if it was SET like in 2200-2250 also.  It could be Canonized as Resulting in a Mass Nuking of the Earth that would Eradicate the Xenomorph... and give us the Landscape we saw at the End of Alien Resurrection in Paris.

"Some people like it, others dislike it"

Yeah for me i was looking at some of the other Concepts for the New Born, i think the Actual Animatronics etc were Great i was just NOT a Fan of the Face or its Personality if you would it came across a bit Comical!

If you Watch this VIDEO of some of the Concepts. Then the Design at 2:30 is something i would have Preferred. We can see from this Video that some of the Designs had Influenced the Deacon and Neomorphs from the Prequels.

So you then got to look at the Xenomorph!

Space Bug?  Its then HOW do you Uplift or Evolve what Essentially is like a Space Ant Colony, and i think you have to be Careful.... maybe YES you make them Super Intelligent, give them BIO-SHIPS etc... which maybe makes them like the WARHAMMER 40K TYRANIDS.... but you RUN the RISK of giving us another like STARSHIP TROOPERS.

Bio-Warfare? This is the Route that Ridley Scott had saw it has but the WHO and WHY had Changed over Time... i think i agree with this as ONCE you have shown the Xenomorph over and over.... we have to ask.

Is it the Perfect Weapon/Solider and the Answer has to be NO! Now bare with me a Little... its more like a KILL SWITCH a NUKE... its like say COVID could you imagine if you Created a Virus which combined COVID with EBOLA... if you have NO CURE for it.. or it Mutates to become IMMUNE to such a Anti-Virus then you could be in BIG TROUBLE... its ONLY SAFE USE is to Drop onto a World you want to Destroy all LIFE on and then leave that World to ROT and become a Waste Ground.

The Xenomorph would be something like the above..... but if we take the Engineers as Canon then the GOO is many more times more Effective and Efficient.

What about as Soldiers?  Maybe you could TRY and Control the Xenomorphs and then USE them as a Fighting Force... but they are ONLY of USE in Certain Situations, when its a more OPEN BATTLEFIELD... then the Xenomorphs are NOT as BIG of a Threat....   If a Xenomorph Outbreak had occurred say on a Island lets say New Zealand.... well NATO at Present would WIPE the Floor with them.... we saw what the Sentry Guns did in ALIENS.... imagine more Powerful Guns from Air Force Weapons and Never Mind like Rockets/Missiles Fired from Ships etc etc...

So for me it has to be to LOOK at WHAT can be Gained from the Xenomorph Genetically.... what can you TRY and Gain from it to USE for some Greater Purpose.

Maybe the TV Series would LOOK at something like this... before we get a Outbreak?

When i look at the Xenomorph from a Military Prospective and what would be the BIG PAY OFF.... then RIPLEY 8 comes to Mind.... when we Dig Deeper into the Engineers Agenda... and Especially what was the ORIGINAL Purpose for them.. then what FITS with their Aim... and Peter Weylands (Immortality) the Answer to me is again RIPLEY 8.

It would be Interesting to see if the TV Series could look at Similar as in what Genetically could be Gained from the Xenomorph.

As of NOW we have no Real Idea of what this TV Series is going to Affect as far as CANON.

These Concepts seem to indicate that a W-Y Ship will likely be what Brings the Xenomorph to Earth.  And in what seems to be a Popular District which we can ONLY assume will be in a Area that the Prodigy Corp Controls.

THIS... is going to Contradict what we see in ALIEN/ALIENS as FAR as most of Mankind has NEVER encountered anything like this....

LOOKING... at the Time-Line thats been Indicated the Events of the TV Series could be like 5 Years before ALIEN COVENANT... and Certainly some 20-25 Years before the events of ALIEN!

Xenomorphs in a CITY location on Earth at least 20 Years before ALIEN?.... thats a BIG NO THANKS from me...... UNLESS... as i have said before, maybe we are being given a ALTERNATIVE TIME-LINE like a Multiverse.... just like how we have the Spiderman Movies over the last 20 Years where we have had 3 Incarnations of our Super Hero.  Or the Batman Movies of the 90's compared to the Dark Knight Series and then Latter Appearances....

Same Character and Broad Plot/Villains... just Alternative takes... if this is what the TV Series is bringing to the PLATE then maybe we can Appreciate if for what it is... otherwise its going to MUDDLE the CANON of the Movies.

Seems a Cash Grab to me, where they have RAN OUT of Ideas and are going for the more POPCORN like Route....  but as Ridley Scott had once said... there is ONLY so much Chest Bursting and Snarling you can do.....

If they are going to the BASICS... which is WHAT is the Xenomorph, WHERE did it come from... then you have to Answer as to WHY would Mankind want such a thing, and WHY the Space Jockey/Engineers would too (if we going to look at these Guys).

Xenomorph as a Weapon?  Nah! its more like the Nuke Option... or like Dropping a Chemical Weapon that causes a Zombie Outbreak.

Yeah Xenotaris, maybe you knew this already but Ridley himself also has a long art background and I believe he said in an older interview that he graduated from a 7 year (!) art school, probably very prestigious. He doesn’t overdo things many times, if not most of the time. For instance, look at the solar sails on the Covenant spaceship, shaped like a big square, plain and simple yet so effective in terms of credibility. The designs in Ridley’s films (whether he’s responsible for the art direction or not) also works great in conjunction with his long-time working partner; cinematographer Dariusz Wolksi, hence all the stunningly beautiful shots.  

That would explain alot Neomorph

Hi BigDave :D 
H.R Giger’s Alien is so iconic and ahead of its time it’s hard to match. The alien queen design was a very successful visual attempt at creating something new although clearly in the same vein, obviously linked to the xenos by merely looking at it.
The Newborn was at least an effort at making something fresh and different which was welcomed and maybe needed at that point. Some people like it, others dislike it. I personally love it, in part because of the incredible animatronics ADI created for it.
The final version of the Neos look very simple and toned down compared to these artworks and the earlier Ultramorph concept but I guess it was the demand of Ridley given the simplistic aesthetic nature of his other recent works (android suits and pods in Raised by Wolves for example) 

First time i've seen this concept art and it looks interesting. I speculate since the doomed Prometheus mission, rival companies emerged all wanting to claim a stake in "Terraforming", and Weyland merged with Yutani as a way to make both "Companies" stronger and stay on top.

    Now this "Maginot" ship, i think is a ship sent out after the events of Prometheus and Covenant, consisting of a team of Weyland Company people and Scientists, that rendezvous with David somewhere out in space. Ofcourse David deceives this Maginot crew, and they end up with more than they bargained for when they recieve Xenomorph eggs, which eventually break out on the ship causing it to crash on arrival back to Earth. 

                       Cue lot's of Corporate battling between Prodigy Corp and W/Y and the Xeno outbreak which both companies fight to contain. I think this is what the ALIEN Franchise truly needs; a continued direction from the Core narrative Ridley Scott layed out, but with fresh "Input" from other talented storytellers. Hopefully this series can combine the whole Corporate espionage with horror/suspense of the Xenomorph in all it's splendor. 

First time i've seen this concept art and it looks interesting. I speculate since the doomed Prometheus mission, rival companies emerged all wanting to claim a stake in "Terraforming", and Weyland merged with Yutani as a way to make both "Companies" stronger and stay on top.

    Now this "Maginot" ship, i think is a ship sent out after the events of Prometheus and Covenant, consisting of a team of Weyland Company people and Scientists, that rendezvous with David somewhere out in space. Ofcourse David deceives this Maginot crew, and they end up with more than they bargained for when they recieve Xenomorph eggs, which eventually break out on the ship causing it to crash on arrival back to Earth. 

                       Cue lot's of Corporate battling between Prodigy Corp and W/Y and the Xeno outbreak which both companies fight to contain. I think this is what the ALIEN Franchise truly needs; a continued direction from the Core narrative Ridley Scott layed out, but with fresh "Input" from other talented storytellers. Hopefully this series can combine the whole Corporate espionage with horror/suspense of the Xenomorph in all it's splendor. 

yeah, Noah Hawley's alien I think will be worse than alien vs predator 04

I think xenomorph bioships/hiveships would be terrifying

I wish that was shown in the movie

It good to see you again Big Dave

This seems to be the DEATH of the Walter Hill and David Giler version of ALIEN V which seemed to indicate a LOT of the Franchise could be down to DREAMS!

Ripley had her STORY..... it should have ENDED with ALIEN 3.

The ONLY thing to Salvage from Ripley would be the AFTERMATH of Alien Resurrection.  Where we have Ripley 8 being to me the more IDEAL kind of Bio-Weapon for a Company than the Xenomorph.

The ALIEN Franchise is a Mess to be Honest..... and seems NONE of them can come up with anything Decent that does-not go and Retcon or Conflict stuff.

It seems the Idea we have NOW is yeah lets bring the Xenomorph to Earth some 20 Years before ALIEN.... oh well!

Looking at these IMAGES... if they are Official.

It would seem to Imply that we are getting a PLOT that is Prior to Alien Covenant but after Prometheus.... it would Indicate that a W-Y Ship has gone to some place and Obtained a Xenomorph Specimen.... and during its Entry into Earths Atmosphere it has had a Outbreak that Results in a Crash.

This Crash likely being within the Prodigy Corps Backyard and so they CLAIM the Finders Keepers and begin to Experiment on the Xenomorphs.

The First leaks we had for the TV Series in the Promotional Posters etc was showing us a Face Hugger that was on the Walls of a Partially Submerged Cavern or Ships interior that had the Engineers Aesthetic.

Leading me to Speculate that either a Human Company would Discover a Crashed Engineer Ship or Sunken Engineer Outpost on Earth.... or on some other Planet and a Specimen is brought to Earth.

PERSONALLY.... i have Little Hope for this Project, i think its going to CONFLICT the Franchise and Especially as it would be set some 20 Years before ALIEN and yet we have Xenomorphs running around in City Locations on Earth!

Unless its a Alternative take aka Multiverse.. i think its ASKING for Trouble.

I think that you can EXPAND beyond the Xenomorph, this is something that RS had Envisioned... but there was a LOT of Dislike from those who like the Xenomorph and so i think the Xenomorph is the PULLING force to Sell the Franchise but its also its BANE... it will take a Good Juggling Act to TRY and Satisfy everyone and i cant see this working...

I think its a Pickle as to HOW do you Evolve the Xenomorph, its Story... without either giving us a Star Ship Troopers or a Space Jason Voorhees because all we Basically have is a Parasitic Killing Machine that was either Naturally Occurring or Engineered.

I think the David Arc is FINISHED.....

I suspect a NEW Canon would arise that would PUSH those Movies with David as something to FORGET that Happened.

I think a Decent Writer could FIX the Problems, and Warrant to get us at least  NOVEL that would Cover what becomes of David and what links the Prequels to ALIEN but i cant see this EVER happening.

As for the Movie.... its all Quiet at the Moment the Emphasis could be to Concentrate on the TV Series First and then GAUGE the Reaction of the Fans. I dont EXPECT to see a MOVIE before 2026

Seems to be more like some of the Concept works for the New Born before we got the Abomination we ENDED up with in Alien R it would be Interesting to see WHAT the Monsters of the Paglen/Green Drafts would have been like.

Maybe these are some of them?

All this MESS had came about due to Reaction  by the Powers that be to some of the Negativity of Prometheus (lack of Answers to the Xenomorph or having anything like it on Screen) and the Growing Interest in Blomkamps Alien V....

which then led to the Xenomorph being FORCED into the Plot and a Re-Working of what was Originally being worked on in 2014... to what became the Summer 2015 Drafts that became our Alien Covenant. We may NEVER see the Light of Day of any of the Work by Paglen and Green.... but it would seem it would NOT have been like Alien Covenant..... certainly as FAR as seeing Xenomorphs.

It would seem that the PLAN by Ridley Scott was that David had Created the Xenomorph but as this HAD NOT gone down well.... It left it OPEN to be Explored in another way.

This makes a Complete MESS of the Franchise in trying to UNDO what Alien Covenant had Shown....   I have NOT gone and Read the RPG or its Material.

The ONLY WAY to make Sense of it all NOW would be that the Engineers had Encountered something they had NOT Created, and that they had seen this Organism as having some TRAITS that would be USEFUL to Create the PERFECT ORGANISM.... and they Began Experiments which lead to the DEACON.

David had then worked this OUT and either (A) had Attempted to Harness the Genetics/DNA of the more PURE FORM that the Engineers Deacon had came from to Create his OWN Variant of the more Ancient Organism. or (B)  that Experiments with DNA of the Deacon and other Related Organisms contained the Genetic Makeup of the Xenomorph and would Eventually become Refined on its own to Revert back to Closer to the Xenomorph.

In Order to make this FIT more in with Supporting Evidence it would be IDEAL to then Indicate that the Derelict had been on LV-426 for Hundreds of Years or even just Decades before the LV-223 Experiments to Create the Deacons...

A U-Turn on what had been indicated by RS Comments at the Time of Prometheus which was that the events of the Outbreak on LV-223 had resulted in something that Evolved to those Eggs on the Derelict some Few Hundred years after.

This was changed to possibly indicate that at some point within the Next 10 Years after the events of ALIEN COVENANT would see HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs got onto the Derelict but their Origins would have came from the Experiments that David had Conducted on Planet 4.

But the Consensus seems that MOST of the Fans prefer that the Xenomorph is something that has been around prior to Prometheus, and it would seem that Disney would likely be ON BOARD with the same Concept.

And Hence the OPTION A or B i had mentioned above would be ideal ways to TIDY UP the Loose Ends.

this is better pitures but everyother piture is ulgy.

We can ONLY go and Speculate as to what had Happened.

The NUTS and BOLTS seems to Indicate that David had Experimented and Cross-Hybred a Number of Different Experiments... which Included the USE of Female Engineers.

But is seems that he Found that Dr Shaw's Body and most likely HER very Reproductive Organs had Yielded more Perfect Results...

The Indication is therefor that those EGGS in the Room that Oram was taken to had came about thanks to the Donation of Dr Shaws Body.  It is UNLIKELY that she had wanted to PLAY any Part in this.... it would seem that Dr Shaw had DIED some how, and then David had then thought about USING HER in his Experiments.

The Drawings of Dr Shaw, had been indicated as Possibly being Twisted Thoughts and Desires of David.

"It is her motivation to perhaps go along with David's plot or in his twisted mind, his 'gift' to her"

It had been Indicated by someone on SET that Dr Shaw had been HIDING away in the Crashed Juggernaught.  Looking at Various Clues.... i would CONCLUDE the Most Likely Fate of Dr Shaw is as Follows.

* David would have led Dr Shaw to believe some Accident had Happened that Caused the Ship to Crash and Contaminate the Planet.

* He would advise Dr Shaw to remain in the Ship while he would go out and Explore the Planet looking for Clues and the Extent of the Contamination.

* It is likely that Dr Shaw would require Food and Water, and Once Supplies were LOW on the Ship, David would bring her more from the Planet (his Notes show he had been to Water Bodies and Studied Plants and Water Organisms). And so he likely brought her Water and Food and made some Excuse to HOW they are NOT Contaminated.

* She would grow Suspicious of him as he would Disappear for Days on End, and its LIKELY she would One Day go and Follow him, and then Stumble upon the Experiments he had been Conducting on the Engineers.

* She would Confront him, and he would LIKELY suggest he did all this for HER and he was trying to Find a way so that she can Re-Produce so that eventually she could Re-Populate this World and make it a NEW EDEN.

* She would DECLINE and likely try to FLEE or ATTACK him, and then she would have LIKELY gone to Attempt to LEAVE in the Juggernaught.  But Failed.

* David catches her.... she eventually Dies or is Killed and then David goes to USE her for his Experiments... Resulting in those Eggs.

Yes, I love rejected concepts

Thanks, it's always interesting to see what could have been.

wicked

After reading more into the Alien RPG, I now like to think of the xenomorphs as being an ancient organism rather than a recent creation

Yes!

I consider the ovomorph and the facehugger to be the same species as the rest of the xenomorphs as Linguafoeda acheronsis since they carry the xenomorph's genetic material just different stages of the same species.

I like the consolidated information. My only revision to the ARPG is switching the Facehugger's scientific name to Noxhydria manumala, which lets the Ovomorph take the sensible name of Noxhydria noxhydria, as genus Noxhydria can contain both lifeforms, while genus Manumala limits itself to only the XX121 facehugger, its Praetomorph cousin, and maybe the Trilobite.

Cameron was trying to tell a different story and didn’t want to open that can. Although the question is vital and needs to be answered. I personally think it would’ve made a good plot line for the third movie but we got a bunch of off-the-wall junk instead.

 Truth is the only information that the company had about the real fate of the Nostromo was held with Burke (Head of special projects) He was in possession of the analysis teams (Introtech facility in Japan) original final report. Introtech was W-Y go to for Air/Space disaster reconstruction and inquiry. Burke later obtained the Narcissus flight recorder from Introtech. All operational and diagnostic logs from the mothership (USCSS Nostromo)  were downloaded to this shuttlecrafts (Narcissus) flight recorder box.

Burke just heavily redacted information before conveying it to his supervisors. Burke also saw the opportunity to make some $$$$ and was going to take it!

sorry one more post

"Would that be different enough, though? I can see that point, but I would prefer new things"

Well they would be xenomorphs of corase but more specialized breeds or even evolved from an earlier caste. Maybe we might have flying xenomorphs that could eventually evolve into a xenomorph starship-caste, kind of evolve the xenomorphs into being like the tyrannids or zerg. I know that might sound video gamey but its an avenue the alien series could take

 Crap forgot again that I can't edit.

I mean the neomorphs are basically prototype xenomorphs same with the deacon from prometheus. They are both parasitic that have parallels to the xenomorph proper. They botch hatch from an egg-like structure, they both have a infector form, they both violently are birthed by bursting out of its host and they both have elongated heads and long limbs.

If you have it heavily focused on super humans, it maybe alien as in the unknown or whatever but its no longer ALIEN, its now a generic sci-fi tv series.

Crap, i can't believe i typed 1993 instead of 1992

Well the xenomorph is the star of the alien franchise and everyone thinks of the xenomorphs when mentioned the ALIEN movies and ALIEN was the xenomorphs name before the word xenomorph became popular, again its like Godzilla with no Godzilla or a Predator movie with no Yautja/Predator

The last picture at the right looks a bit like Han in the carbon freeze in Jabba's palace.

Xenotaris

“Then its not ALIEN, it would be like watching a Godzilla movie without Godzilla”

I understand that kind of thinking, but I disagree. You can have things that are in the same family, so to speak, but I see why some think that the Xeno needs to be there. Eventually it depends on what you want to have there for you to consider it alien.

Alien means unknown, so to have the same thing in it, so it becomes familiar, seems to go against that. Too much use of the alien (Xeno) makes it repetitive and less alien, so to speak. Unfortunately, Alien Covenant misused the Xenomorph so it became another low point for it. Maybe you could have it in a cameo at best, but used with more respect than in Covenant.

AR and AVP, I think that they were overused and not used well there. My biggest problem with the AVP's and AR isn't how they did the monsters, but other things too. The human characters were weak, and the tone were too light-hearted, those are my main problems with them. About AVPR, no matter if the monsters would've been better, the movie would still be a turd. AVPR doesn't even have a story that is stitched together, it has random scenes that don't even connect and characters that are just there to be killed but you don't get to know them so to me at least when they die I just don't give a.

Alien 3 was 1992, not 1993. (Nerd comment, LOL)

“I think they should introduce more stronger variants of xenomorphs”

Would that be different enough, though? I can see that point, but I would prefer new things. It's like how much more variations can you do on the same thing before it gets old? The prequels are so and so, but at least they tried new monsters, which I consider in their favor.

I would like to see a movie or a TV-show where they balance the monsters and the Engineers if we are about to talk antagonists. More Engineers please even though some might disagree, more of the same old gets stale fast.

Okay one more multiposting, not trying to get on anyone's case just want to convey my thoughts on it all.

I forgot to mention AVPR like AVP didn't expand on the xenomorph instead just reused from the expanded universe as I mentioned the Predalien before, the sequel gave us a Predalien Praetorian. So basically it combined two expanded universe castes together but it did add that praetorians can inject xenomorph larvae directly into a host.

So I don't think its that the xenomorphs are overused, I think its more that the xenomorphs haven't quite evolved beyond establishing hives. If they were zerg, the xenomorph hives seen on Lv-426, Auriga, and Antarctica would have been a starter Hatchery Level Hive cluster. I think they should introduce more stronger variants of xenomorphs

I think execution was the problem with AVP and Resurrection, not that they were overused they weren't creative with the xenomorphs like the first three movies were.

The only thing Resurrection added was the Hybrid and the Cloned Xenomorphs but still the cloned xenomorphs used the usually familiar caste of xenomorphs, Ovomorphs, facehuggers, chestbursters, Drones/Warriors and a Queen.

AVP added no new xenomorph type and technically the Predalien existed in the expanded universe a good decade before the AVP movie.

Contrast with the original Alien which introduced the Ovomorph, facehugger, chestburster and Drone cast for the first time in 1979 and then in 2003 reintroduced the egg morphing ability.

Aliens introduced the Warrior variants to the Drone caste and the Xenomorph Queen to the big screen back in 1986.

Alien 3 introduced the xenomorph's DNA reflex back in 1993 with the introduction of the Runner.

When we add in the Alien prequels, Prometheus expanded upon the xenomorph's creators and gave us the protomorph (Deacon)

Alien Covenant gave us the Neomorphs and the Praetomorph (David's xenomorphs)

Part of the backlash against the recent Jurassic World Dominion was a lack of threatening dinosaur presence since genetically modified bugs took center stage and the Giganotosaurus was just there for a few scenes but not enough to have a proper build up to make the Giganotosaurus iconic in the way the first movie made the raptors Iconic or the third movie made the Spinosaurus iconic.