James Cameron is a big fan of Neill Blomkamp's Alien 5 script and agrees killing off Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 was a mistake!

CHRIS PICARD - I could not agree more with Mr. Cameron's assessment. :)

here are the facts: if you read the novelization by ALAN DEAN FOSTER of the Dan O'Bannon script for ALIEN characters Ripley and Lambert were portrayed as each amorous with Cpt. Dallas... also in the 1970s was a string of USA drama highlighting whistleblowers in unions i.e. corporations.. blue collar men and women; with real intimacy off the clock but also caught up and bothered and insinuated by policy pressure for equality.. ala SALLY FIELD in NORMA RAE or later MERYL STREEP in SILKWOOD

this is the Ripley of character I read in the novelization and saw a day after finishing reading in a theater in Montgomery ALABAMA in 1979...

James Carmeron's school of speil berg and kubrick is the pool of injecting the salve of 'family values'; now I do not want to digress. .. into parte lines over cinema.. damn we should blend our colours nationally..

but the alien is not to be tamed is a equal opportun istic organism...

so Sigourney can see both sides and she is a gifted versatile person, actress and will satiate with a fantastic militiaristic salve for those who could never descend solo into the world of ALIEN 3 malcontents; discontents; grieving; and doubt...

I rest on ALIEN RESSURECTION it's a hangnail.. but as a scifi channel movie .. enjoyable except for the biological pathos of embryonic metamorphosis... shun the end.

ITs Sigourney that will glue this thread and return the family value protective military guns ablaze to audiences ala Reagan era POLTERGEIST etc.. I hope BLOKENKAAMP draws more upon TOBE HOOPER than boot kick praise from CAMERON

keep it visceral "R" rated visual dark suspensful and remember this story happens in space.. space is a void.. in space no can hear you scream.. humanize Ripley but as seen as epic failure in ALIEN: RESSURECTION fail to see cute and cuddly unless its busting a tune 'hello my ba by hello my dolly hell o my raga time gal.. ala Mel Brook's SPACEBALLS ;)

MY BIG QUESTION: who i scoring the film?

PS elliot goldenthal score please

"I thought [the decision to eliminate Newt, Hicks, and Bishop] was dumb. I thought it was a huge slap in the face to the fans."

I don't know...I consider the Alien movies horror films....every character is fair game. You lose that and it might as well be Star Trek or Star Wars.

As I've said before : The monsters are the stars.

How did Çameron come to 
read the alien 5 script?

Coz he's James Cameron.

"As I've said before : The monsters are the stars."

The AvP films would suggest one needs more than monsters.

bloop

@ S.M

I've yet to watch a AvP.   Not sure I ever will....Unless someone thinks they are worth it?!

@S.M, yeah I always felt the characters and relationships between them were what made the Alien films so compelling. The monsters were simply an engine, what truly scared us were our attempt to relate and sympathize with the characters caught in the unfortunate circumstance. Without solid characters and believable relationships, it's just not scary. Not once did I fear for anyone in AvP.... and when it came to AvP:R, I was rooting for the Aliens to take them all out. lol

@ Chris Picard, i agree!

"and she's scared of some stupid men? "

When was she scared? She was supposed to be confined to the infirmary for her own safety - but then went and sat down with them to eat.

"Blame people like fincher who lost sight of why ripley was the survivor and an interesting character. "

Fincher didn't write it, and Weaver was on board with the direction the character took.

bleep

"I can feel how i want to feel about whatever i want to feel lol  thats the beauty of "having my own opinion" sweethaaart! (bogart voice)  lmao  "

I don't recall challenging an opinion, more a point of fact.

" And her having to prove herself AGAIN that she's a woman who can hold her own is ridiculous...."

When did she need to prove herself?  Dillon asked her to lead them when Andrews died.

"As far as who ever had control of it.....the last person to get the credit is, the director...Fincher, so its his ship..... titanically speaking (plenty pun intended)."

Anyone who knows anything the production history, knows Fincher had very little say in how things went, and he certainly isn't going to get final cut on his first feature.  There wasn't much he had control over.

"Ridley and Cameron did it. "

Ridley and Cameron had completed scripts that weren't being changed by Fox and Brandywine on a daily basis. Nor were they being undermined by their own studio.

"Sigourney didn't direct the movie or had the final say"

Siggy has the final say on Ripley.

blip

Again, I'm not challenging your opinion at all.  You're hardly alone in disliking Alien3, and your opinions on it are perfectly valid.

However, there are opinions and there are facts, and perhaps if you are made aware of certain facts, it might change your opinion.  Or by querying your opinion, and getting more detail on your opinion, it makes me rethink my opinion. Or it might not. Doesn't matter either way, but that's why we have discussions.

There is absolutely no intent to humiliate anyone.

J.C.- 'Any perpetuation of my ideas gets a big thumbs up!'

lol

Most of us are well aware of A L I E N 3's production debacle. However, I actually don't think it is half as bad as some people think. In fact, in many ways it works better as a sequel to A L I E N, with it's tone of dark foreboding and death.

The thing I like most about it is that it ended Ripley's story in a pretty moving and fitting way. There should never be a happy ending for any of the sagas characters. Some may survive, but for most, death is an inevitability when dealing with the MORB and it's horrific lifecycle.

It would appear that many want the opposite, in the form of the Ripley-Hicks-Newt family unit. So they will get what they want, a continuation of Ripley facing the Alien lifecycle, then her handing over to Newt, to continue the hackneyed cycle.

I don't see the point to that. I'll stick with Ridley, because he is expanding the Alien Universe and breaking new ground. That gets me far more excited than RAMBOLINA versus ALIEN and it's sequels! 

I like Alien 3 more than most probably and Hicks and Newts death didn't bother me much. If anything I liked the overall tragedy it gave Ripley and her relationship with the Alien.

So with that being said, not really interested in Alien 5 yet.

I think that it was alright to kill off Newt and Hicks, I don’t even think that they are very important to the Alien universe as a whole. Their deaths could have been done better. Alien movies are not even about having a happy ending and making them into a happy family kind of movies would really suck.

The third one is good in its gloomy environment, its depressing feeling and how you deal with living in an environment far away from earth. How they ended Ripley in A3 was good but unfortunately they decided to resurrect her in Alien Resurrection for some strange reason.

No thanks to Alien 5 (been there done that) I would rather watch Alien Covenant where they focus more on the Engineers and eventual new monsters because we have seen the Xenos too many times now but they need to get the characters right this time.

Chris P: Yes the human characters and relations is what it is about and it won’t work without likeable characters.

Lone: Yeah I think that we have seen enough of Ripley. We already have Ripley in four movies, I just think that they should let her be. They should have stopped after Alien 3 though.

@Lone Funnily enough listening to Sigourney made me realise how much the A L I E N series has grown with P R O M E T H E U S and whilst A 5 has to be informed by the Pre Equal investment I did not get any sense that there was excitement about making A 5 more meaningful in that context the emphasis was on A.Q. verses E.R. Given they are going to drive a coach horses through A 3  and A 4 the reintroduction of Hicks and Newt could come off as fan service were all the intellectual initiative and drive is in the pre equals. Ridders will put down markers (The ripley connection) but that is just so people can understand the overall fit but with what we are seeing there is a lot more to the next instalment than mere Zeno Fest.

Put simply I am with you.    

" Alien movies are not even about having a happy ending and making them into a happy family kind of movies would really suck."

Was Aliens really a "happy ending" though?  Nearly everyone was dead. It's not really any happier than Alien. Ripley's 'instant family' was reward for facing and overcoming her fears.  Cameron couldn't really have a down ending because he didn't know what might follow.

Plus, down endings don't seem to be Cameron's thing. 

Ripleys family worked in the context of wrapping up Aliens but I think what a lot of people here didn't want was a sequel with Newt in danger, and Mom and Dad to the rescue. Thankfully, now that isn't possible. At least I hope not!

One thing I liked about 3 was the depth Newt's death provided Ripley, some real 3 dimensional trauma outside of the fantasy elements, yet possibly traceable to the fantasy elements, necessitating worse, self-inflicted trauma (ordering Newt's autopsy). I thought that was some brilliant drama.

S.M:

The main characters survived - one woman, one man, and a kid which makes it for a happy family ending and also the movie didn't have a scary feeling like Alien had. Yes the marines died except for Hicks but they were more like fill characters. Alien had the cat and Ripley surviving the beast so yes I would say that Aliens had a happier ending than Alien if you don't put animals at the same level as humans.

"Cameron couldn't really have a down ending because he didn't know what might follow."

Maybe, or he simply preferred a happy ending.

I think we need to define happy endings. If we go back to Ripley at the beginning of ALIENS she is a deeply traumatised changed individual woken up after losing the chance to be a mother to her daughter I cannot imagine anything more traumatic. Added to which everyone thought she was nuts.

If R & H & N survived showed how that shared experience gave them a powerful once ever connection and Newt ended up being chest busted and Hicks watched the woman whom he loved and worshipped self sacrifice that would have been one hell of a movie. A good ending for mankind and a traumatised awe full experience for the three of them. If they had set down in a monastery where they would recover and be healed before the single Newt A L I E N and the Queen pregnancy had happened that would have been an astonishing movie and away to end matters.

I hope some of the couples in Covenant will explore that same kind of emotional intensity where not only is the Zeno related more closely to us through D & S but it wrecks mayhem on real relatable people who love and care for each other. Perhaps the complication of a pregnant woman being chest busted would send out the message that we should not meddle with the creative path better than a lot of standard gore for the 16 to 24 year old audiences and the baby boomers who want it one more time. Something awful but not gratuitous but really shows what can happen when you start f…ing around with destiny. Real awful displays would also make the mythos of these mechanistic gods and their gardeners understand the value of what is missing a God/Creator of Love.       

an't this a  polarizing subject lol

I think this is why Fox had changed minds on  a  few things and maybe why some never liked Prometheus and are really hyped about Alien 5.

In order for the Fans to get what they wanted from a Alien 3.... they would have had to make sure they could have cast Biehn and Henn.

Was killing them off Stupid... it depends if you could have done a story to cast those actors... it was not the best story we got.  But i keep hearing Weaver on about how they needed Happy Endings...

Sorry Alien Franchise should give no Happy Endings... she should stick with Avatar lol.....  I am happy Ridley is trying to bring us back in to a Dark Franchise... i worry Alien 5 is a Pop Corn Family affair in space.

Only things i am interested in is the Xeno and Engineer Tech after the events of Aliens...  did Weaver not want to die in Alien 3 because she never wanted to do any more movies..

Then she said recently its only because she heard of the AVP series and thats why she wanted Ripley Killed off? But soon came back for Alien R before the AVP Movies.

Sorry this is going to ruffle a few feathers but i think to me Weaver wants to have her finger in all the pies... be that Aliens, Avatar and Ghostbusters if they do anther movie.

I think there was a better Alien 3 to be made, and i think it would have benefited from having those Characters but i would have still at some point killed them off... so that a Alien 4 could be made where Ripley is then a Hard as Nails No BS Character scared for life by the events of Aliens and Alien 3

As for the Draft of Blomkamps well it did have some interesting concepts... it would be interesting to see how they could be evolved.  And Cameron said its got some pretty original ideas there, it would be interesting to see what they are.

But i have a feeling they are going to give us more closer to a Avatar than a Alien.... i think its too much of a Happy Families in Space idea from the comments i have read.   When we hear that Ripley and Co (includes Bishop) should have a happy ending...

Sorry i dont buy that..... but it would be interesting to see, and to see how Blomkamps ideas work out as i have not been to impressed with his stuff so far... its not been bad... just far from a darker movie like Aliens.

And so i worry Alien 5 would be not much different to a Alien R myself

But what is done is done....

They are bringing those Characters back... and i for one look forwards to seeing how they use Newt....

They need a good story and character to be well written make the movie a bit dark and ultimately have Newt be passed the Torch by Ripley and by that have Ripley Sacrifice herself to save Newt.

They can then carry on with a Alien 6, 7 with Newt if its done right....  but i think Weaver wont let Ripley get killed off again...

And so we could see her with her Powerloader and Disabled Parking Badge killing Xeno Butt for many years lol

I think Alien 3 was ok, had flaws... i would have had Hicks Survive the whole Story but have Newt get Chest Busted..... but thats because i would have wanted to get back to a more darker tone like Alien.

But i think now we have potential.....

If we go for a alternative route.... where Ripley Adopts Newts and gets back to some normality of life.... i want to see her and hicks part way else be too much happy families.

Then have Hicks contact Ripley because they found out some company had once again after 20 years got their hands on the Xenomorph and Ripley cant let that happen...

If they then set out to put a stop to this... i think if done right and with a bit of a twist of loss and sacrifice it could work well..... and if they cast someone to play Newt well enough then they can explore further movies with someone new...

So yes i think having RIPLEY given ONE MORE outing if done right could work well, and let her go out with a BANG!

Allow Newt to bear the toil of loss to such a Mother figure and then when the company ever go to try get their hands on the Xeno again.... Newt then tools up and is off to continue Ripleys mission to make sure the company and Mankind never have to deal with the Xeno again!

"I think we need to define happy endings. If we go back to Ripley at the beginning of ALIENS she is a deeply traumatised changed individual woken up after losing the chance to be a mother to her daughter I cannot imagine anything more traumatic. Added to which everyone thought she was nuts."

just read your post and spot on.... really was a way to set up a family vibe but not to end on a happy note..

"If R & H & N survived showed how that shared experience gave them a powerful once ever connection and Newt ended up being chest busted and Hicks watched the woman whom he loved and worshipped self sacrifice that would have been one hell of a movie"

Agreed this is what i was thinking too, ;)

But yes now they can fast forwards 20 years and show the bond that Newt and Ripley have with each other we dont need to see Newt Growing up with Ripley blah blah...

By seeing the connection in the movie set 20 years latter we could see a Bond.... Many things they could do with this...

Maybe Ripley tries to bring Newt up to not have to worry about such Horrors.... maybe she however is influenced by Ripley and how tough she had to become and then Hicks.... that Newt joins the Marines... and finds out she is in trouble with the Xeno and Ripley is off to the rescue.... or even if Newt joins some Scientists and goes missing....

Ripley finds out the outpost she was working on, had brought back a Derelict/Juggernaught etc.

So it would be interesting to find out how they do it, i am concerned it may be too much of a happy family theme...  especially if Bishop becomes part of the family.

@BD I get you entirely one way you can deepen the mythos is to give it emotional context. Yes it will be fascinating to answer why the Zeno and what happened to the Engineers but if you also explore the enormous trauma that going up against all this stuff creates which they touched in A 2 and A 3 suddenly you make the horror, the dysfunctional nature of this world, even more powerful. I do not mean the "hay we gotta care about the dudes" I mean another level of emotional insight. How did that Engineer feel when he ingested the goo ? He was a zealot for the cause but David needs to tell us why they rebelled because that give us insight into these creators who appear utterly devoid of sentiment. I really hope Covenant puts human care and shared bonds up  against this dreadfully dispassionate creative spark. Each can be viewed as stereotypical but the way they work off each other could be really imaginative and fresh certainly for the franchise.          

Who cares what James Cameron thinks... he praised Terminator Genysis, too. He's completely lost credibility.

Michelle J: A happy ending could be that Ripley and the cat survived  A1 (maybe not a happy ending but as close as possible within the limits of A1 because of the horror genre). Yes she lost he daughter but since we never saw her interacting with her daughter I can not really feel very sorry about that or yes I can but not that much because we never saw the connection between them that they had if that makes sense it wasn’t like Ripley and Newt. Everyone thought that she was crazy but that wasn’t very scary to me either. The over all atmosphere just feels more like a regular action movie compared to A1.

“If R & H & N survived showed how that shared experience gave them a powerful once ever connection and Newt ended up being chest busted and Hicks watched the woman whom he loved and worshipped self sacrifice that would have been one hell of a movie.”

But that would still be the same as far as Aliens goes and it will still be a happy ending.  Maybe but I also think that we have seen chest busters a lot of times. I hope that they will do something new. Perhaps it could work (what you describe) but maybe it would be better if they would be dragged down under the floor where they get murdered because then you can use your imagination more compared to if they would show everything in the scene.

Couples and emotional intensity in AC – it seems that it could be a good thing. If they will do this right then it could work. Maybe a chest busted pregnant woman could work? One way that they could kill could be if there was a monster that the Engineers did that puts its huge hand around a (human head) so it gets crushed like you can put an egg in your hand and squeeze it until it gets destroyed.  This could be interesting and a thing that we haven’t seen the Xenomorphs kill people before at least it would be new also it could make a point that the Xenos are really strong creatures or maybe there could be another monster that the Engineers have done that s that strong. My hope is that we might see monsters in AC that the Engineers have created that are more horrifying than the Xenos it could also shift the focus from the Xenos as a threat to the Engineers as the bigger enemy which could be interesting.

Another idea is that there is a couple on the Covenant (ship) that are in love and one of these two will be killed and the other one survives and has a huge mental break down/depression gets suicidal or what ever. Compare it to how people can react when they have depressions. If this is well acted then it could work.

“Real awful displays would also make the mythos of these mechanistic gods and their gardeners understand the value of what is missing a God/Creator of Love.”       

It doesn’t need to be about a God of love but a simple message that we need to take care of each-other.

Yeah MJ hits it again.  I think you have this good vs evil, love vs hate theme going on here, that portrays our very dual nature.  Some want to keep it dark, others want to "see the light".  

To me, it's not just a question of whether they kill these people off.  We're all gonna die, some day.  That's not the point. What I don't like is some director just flippantly killing off all these characters, we fought so hard with, as a convenient way of changing directions to do what his vision was.  If they die, I want to see them put up some kind of valiant struggle before going down.  Not just, oops, shit happen happened out in space, they're all dead, hey check out this new idea.

So I am not trying to say happy endings here, all around, but I would like to see a little bit more of story before they go down. 

So, yeah, I'm all for a A:5 re-write, if that gives us a little bit more time with the characters before they go to Valhalla.

And yeah I agree; it was a mistake to kill them off in A:3, especially the way it was done. 

And I agree with T_D: it IS all about taking care of each other, regardless of outcome.  We're all gonna die.  Dying well is what counts.  Defending others vs just trying to save your own neck.  That is the legacy of Ripley.  And that is what I would like to see continued.                     

Big Dave: I am fine with the fact that they didn’t have Newt and Hicks in Alien 3, it somehow felt fresh. Aliens felt like a sequel of Alien but since N & H wasn’t in A3 it felt like a new beginning in a way which to me felt like a fresh start in a lack of a better way to say it. Happy endings are not needed if they are done well and if they give people something to think about. Yes I agree that happy endings are more for Avatar. Totally agree with you about Alien 5 as a popcorn movie but still if it wouldn’t be I still wouldn’t be very interested in it.

Ripley died in Alien 3, I think that they should have ended there although I sort of like Call (the Android) in Alien 4. The only reason why I sometimes watch A4 is because of the Call character (there I said it) but it isn’t very good as a whole. A4 is a movie that I watch just some times in a year the most which kind of says a lot since because movies that I like are those that I can watch a bit now and then less so with Resurrection.

The Alien serie ended with Alien 3 in my opinion and everything else until Prometheus isn’t very necessary IMO. Avatar and Ghostbusters are movies that I am simply not interested in as well as I am not interested in Star Wars spin-offs. Happy families in space? F that and also I am not interested in eventual Alien sequels (6,7, what ever).

“Disabled Parking Badge”

That had me laughing a lot! Thanks :D

“If they then set out to put a stop to this... i think if done right and with a bit of a twist of loss and sacrifice it could work well..... and if they cast someone to play Newt well enough then they can explore further movies with someone new...“

The thing is that I don’t think that we need new Alien movies as well as 100 sequels, re-boots and what ever. Hollywood should stop being lazy fuckers (sorry about the swearing but I felt that I had to get that out of me, no pun intended) and come up with something new like they could take some ideas from A and some from B and do something new. Getting inspiration from many sources worked for Alien as far as I know so it could be done with new movies also. To put it short: everything after Alien 3 isn’t necessary (as far as Alien and Prometheus go) and also enough with the re-boots and sequels because it is getting ridiculous.

Diz:

"... it IS all about taking care of each other, regardless of outcome.  We're all gonna die.  Dying well is what counts.  Defending others vs just trying to save your own neck.  That is the legacy of Ripley.  And that is what I would like to see continued."

Thanks! I also want to have that theme continued but in other movies because there you have bigger chances to get new story, interesting, characters and so on. Somehow Alien have come to an end at least the part with Ripley, Newt, and other associated characters from Alien to Alien 4 and now 5 on its way but that is how I look at it.

What I find interesting about Alien Covenant is that they are trying new things (the Engineers for example) and new characters so I am looking forward to that. Hopefully they will get the characters right this time.

Fingers crossed... that they are trying new things... but i am not having high hopes....

The Ridley "Star Wars Comment" oh dear they are already planning 3 more movies up to EP 12, to make a quick buck for the new era of fans at the risk of harming and diluting the originals... and i think Fox will do the same with Alien.

Comments  like when Blomkamp said that Ripley is Alien, and i cant think who else also said the Alien Franchise is Ripley and her Story...  Sorry i dont agree... but it seems Fox may think Ripley + Alien (Xenos) = $$£$£$£$£$£$£

Then when we hear that Alien Covenant will have Ripley link, and how they would need another 2 movies after Alien Covenant until Alien

Then how Alien 5 would be passing a Torch which could mean 1-2 more Newt vs Aliens...

Thats a whole lot of Alien... where as i think those Engineers have created many more evil things in the Galaxy... but oh well..

James Cameron isn't that great of a director, Alien 3 is a fine film.

Big Dave:

I wouldn’t really care if they would try some (one or two) things I think that the Xeno movies are over and done.

Do they really plan to have 12 Star Wars movies? That would suck, I think that 9 are enough and besides now Han is dead so it isn’t as interesting but I think that it would be interesting to see what happens with Luke. I don’t really care about the spin-offs, to me they seem to be a way to get some quick profit really. Where did you read about 12 movies?

"Then she said recently its only because she heard of the AVP series and thats why she wanted Ripley Killed off? But soon came back for Alien R before the AVP Movies."

She said that 20 years ago. And came back for Resurrection when she heard what they were trying to do with it.

"Sorry this is going to ruffle a few feathers but i think to me Weaver wants to have her finger in all the pies... be that Aliens, Avatar and Ghostbusters if they do anther movie."

1) Is that a bad thing?

2) Is there a reason she shouldn't have a finger in those pies?

"Sorry i dont agree... but it seems Fox may think Ripley + Alien (Xenos) = $$£$£$£$£$£$£"

They've spent $149m making Alien movies with Ripley and made $706m. Seems they're not far wrong.

I don't think that killing off Hicks and Newt was necessarily a bad thing, but I understand why it annoyed people.

After having invested in the characters, having them die from the outset was too much for some people, and could be viewed as a mistake, given the continued trauma and drama that a different exposition could have created.

I think the reason for doing so, was to have the focus on Ripley. The story was about the end of her journey, through self-sacrifice.

It really should have been left at that, but of course, Ripley is now set to be resurrected once again!