Just One Derelict

The end of the arm on the right of the original Alien screen grab has different design features then the one in prometheus. As Scott did both films, if it was the same ship, I would 100% expect it to be 100% the same. although granted, there could be subtle update, but these seem like clear design differences, not just updates plus the space jockey cockpit room has different features too...

[img]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/Callamon/Derelictmovieview.jpg[/img] It's the five additional 'openings' you can see on the right side arm that seem to be missing on the Prometheus version

Sorry to rain on your parade but it's already been confirmed there is more than one derelict and the one in Prometheus is not the one in Alien. According to H.R.Giger & Ridley scott, The derelict on LV-426 has been there for millions of years.

There are theories regards the differences between the ships, the number of which is extensive. But that's not why I opened the thread, I did so having possibly spotted a link between Prometheus, Alien and Aliens. Also take into account both Ridley was never happy with the Derelict in Alien, because it looked too much like a sculpture than a ship (Alien 2 Disc DVD) which would explain why he has made changes. @ EP - source please that's the first I've heard, and I'm on here everyday

Sorry, at least 1 million years, check part 17 on this. [url]http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/Derelict.html[/url]

Where has it been confirmed?

ok interesting

Sorry EP but that information is way out of date, incorrect, and not written by a reputable source. For example the fossilized remains of the jockey are actually just a faded suit, accordingly to what Ridley has said in the past month or so

I would say the Alien novel is a good source. I can't remember reading that part as its been years since I read it. I will dig it up and see if I can find where in the book it says about the derelict being dead for 1 million years prior to its descovery by the crew of the Nostromo. If the suits are bio-mechanical (many signs now point to this being true) then could they still become fossilised if the have someone/something in them? I'm pretty positive i'm right about there being more than 1 derelict and the ones in Alien & Prometheus being separate, but if we find out in 5 months that they are one and the same, I will have no shame in holding my hands up and admitting I am wrong. Either way, I think one thing we can agree on is that Prometheus will be one hell of a movie and possibly the best of 2012.

You know what? I've changed my mind. I think it IS the same ship - just cuz Scott knows how much of a kick we'd all get outta seeing THE ship from Alien. If Scott wasn't happy with the original design then that makes sense to me know to have such an update to the design. The only question i have is this: hasn't been stated that this ISN'T LV-426? Plus the landscape is different. If these points can be explained then I'm onboard. They could be different because Scott my be slightly 're-envisioning' parts of the original... who knows... All I know or sure, I've not been this excited about a film since the first Batman!!!

@ EP... Ridley recently stated that the SJ we saw in alien was in fact a suit. These suits can be seen in the new recent image with Noomi (check news). The above two cancel out the novelization, which in itself is not canon, only the film. on Alien DVD Ridley clearly states he was never happy with the look of the Derelict. for info regards the suit and fossilization check my thread in the prometheus section - Space Jockey Was Never Fossilized, that'll clear things up @ KF... Some presume that after the crash the planet changes because of something to do with terraforming

I believe that it is the same planet and that like you have said before Snorkelbottom. I think at the end of the movie something happens to the planet and it ends up becoming the LV-426 that we all love and know. Maybe we humans are trying to escape with something and the jockeys release something that will terraform the planet by killing everything on it , like starting with a clean canvas, therefore trying to kill the running humans.

Nothing that Ridley has said in the last couple of months (which he hasn't) would cancel any canon out.I still can't fathom what difference that would mean if it was a suit or creature.When you say it is not fossilized, do you mean it hasn't been there for millions of years, or that it is just not fossilized?Please clear that up for me.Show me a quote where anyone has said, yeah we got it wrong, the Derelict has only been on LV426 for a few decades.It is clear this is not the same Derelict and you even dismiss the design conflicts in another thread by claiming that they weren't happy with the original design so they might of changed it. [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/915]other thread[/url] [quote]Some presume that after the crash the planet changes because of something to do with terraforming [/quote] Once again total speculation with no facts to back it up. Regarding your original post - Are you saying Scott deliberately had the crash in the movie to tie in with the "hammerhead" arm collapsing?Your kidding right? [quote][b]I would say the Alien novel is a good source. I can't remember reading that part as its been years since I read it. I will dig it up and see if I can find where in the book it says about the derelict being dead for 1 million years prior to its descovery by the crew of the Nostromo. If the suits are bio-mechanical (many signs now point to this being true) then could they still become fossilised if the have someone/something in them? I'm pretty positive i'm right about there being more than 1 derelict and the ones in Alien & Prometheus being separate, but if we find out in 5 months that they are one and the same, I will have no shame in holding my hands up and admitting I am wrong. Either way, I think one thing we can agree on is that Prometheus will be one hell of a movie and possibly the best of 201[/b]2.[/quote] Here here [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/537]other other thread[/url]

Well spotted [b]@Snork[/b] you've got an eagle eye! I think it might be a coincidence though. If Scott isn't planning to adhere to the creature continuity in Alien[b]s[/b] then I doubt he'd plan to seek any continuity in other areas Cameron's film. I personally think there are two derelicts, simply due to the sheer differences in the internal design of the two ships. [img]http://www.empireonline.com/images/uploaded/prometheus29.jpg[/img] [img]http://images.wikia.com/avp/images/4/42/Space-jockey-alien-3_1199468861_640w.jpg[/img] Regardless of what most think, there are some pretty phenomenal differences in the internal structure. [b]@Krak Fox[/b] is completely right. The set designers that have worked on Prometheus are undoubtedly some of the best in the world. If they wished to replicate the derelict 100%, they would be able to do so pretty easily I'd imagine. Just a slight side though (regarding the inside of the derelict in Prometheus) can we confirm that this is actually a ship?: [img]http://www.empireonline.com/images/uploaded/prometheus29.jpg[/img] As you've pointed out before [b]@Snork[/b] the [i]star room[/i] and the room with the humanoid in match up. [img]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4576/starmaproomispilotseatr.jpg[/img] And looking closely at the [i]star room[/i] we can see Fassbender stood in the middle. Now Fassbender is on the ground when the Ample room is explored. And if we believe the ample room to be contained in a SJ cave/temple, then the [i]star room[/i] might not be part of the derelict after all.

@Mentos, the star room pic there is very small but if you take a look at the big beautiful version, the top of it has a very similar window(?) pattern compared to the middle part of the ship (visible in the first pic Snork posted -- bottom left, above the "vent").

It's got to be the same, no matter the small design differences. It's logical to think so. Let's not forget that something probably happened to the Derelict while close to the planet: If Scott truly intends to make it a prequel, then either at launching or landing time, somebody got in and did some major damage. A canon prequel would probably have somebody releasing a facehugger in front of the pilot and then letting it do its job. Result? Pilot gets infected, loses control of the ship, ship crashes on the planet which later may have reversely terraformed because of the long time, hence the structural differences between the two versions. In any case, in my mind, a good "something happened" cannot be anything but "alien egg close to the face of the pilot". Otherwise, Scott will probably find a way to infect it independently, but that would be less interesting.

I think the second shot of the Derelict, when it's on the ground, doesn't immediately follow the first in-air explosion shot. The lighting is completely different--sort of gloomy day light for the first shot and very dark, night-like lighting for the second shot. Just because they follow one another in the trailer doesn't mean that is the case in the movie--these shots could appear 2 hours apart. They have also modified the design in Prometheus to make the ship look much more angular and sleek--frankly, that shot from Alilen makes the Derelict look kind of corny. This doesn't mean it is or is not the same ship. Same goes for the interior of the "star-room". Artistic license means they don't have to make exact replicas of the sets and props, especially if they can improve them (for example, with the Derelict). Certainly today RS wouldn't need to make a miniature SJ and have his kids explore it achieve the scale he wants. I also don't think they're the same ship. Ridley Scott has said that if you watch closely you will spot the "DNA" from Alien (he may be speaking literally here in a sort of double entendre). Having the same Dereclit is kind of knocking you in the head with it, it's not subtle at all as he has implied.

The Alien Novelization is not a good place to go for "facts" - I'm sure it's been said before, but the novel was based off an early version of the screen play, not the final "shooting" version and certainly not the finished film. Maybe when Alien was shot that's what Ridley had in his head, this derelict, Space Jockey and all that were fossils, maybe not. If that's the case, then Ridley's changed his mind on that but it makes me wonder, if everything else is so old that it's fossilized, why are the eggs in the cargo hold or whatever it is not also fossilized?

The eggs is probably why he has changed things. Eggs surviving for 30-35 years is a lot more plausible than eggs surviving for millions of years, and its the eggs that are important, not the ship or its pilot. @ Andrew Ryan, that is why I said in between the two pictures that the Derelict rolls!?!

Artistic licence may be responsible for the observed differences. Note that Giger's original brown-white design (from the top, showing the dome with arms extending downwards) is as slick and angular as the one in Prometheus (if not more) and quite different from the "corny" Derelict design in Alien. In any case, this subtle point makes for two entirely different scenarios. If there are more than one of these things, whatever they are, suits or entire beings, we can have a scenario bifurcation. There's no reason to reference THE Derelict (in Alien), rather, Scott can build an entirely fresh scenario involving those beings/things. But if there's only ONE Derelict, the prequel in order to make sense, must reference THAT and what happened to it. If there are more than one, the story can fly into any direction with ease. Imo, it would be much more serious if it is just one. And much more scary, btw. Otherwise it's like those things can be mass-produced, which sounds a bit silly, particularly in view of their immense complexity (either as beings or suits).

One more point about the Star Chart/Control Room.. there is also a hallway behind the chair and the same entrance to that hall is in the back of the Star Chart photo. I've seen the 3rd photo several times, but I don't know where it comes from, is that from a trailer? Thanks