The Third Moon's Relationship To The Xenomorph?

Hallo Gavin,

my comment refers to the first paragraph of your post.

It is a widespread error to assume that LV 223 and LV 426 are moons orbiting a planet (a gas giant named Calpamos) in the Zeta Reticuli star system.

According to Wikipedia, Zeta Reticuli is a binary star system/double star without planets. As of today, no planets orbiting the two stars of Zeta Reticuli have been discovered. Zeta Reticuli is close enough to earth to be visible with the naked eye from the southern hemisphere in very dark skies.

In "Prometheus" it is never explicitly stated or shown that Zeta Reticuli is the destination of the mission. During the briefing Holloway shows an unnamed star system that consists of a single sun orbited by several planets. This cannot be Zeta Reticuli.

LV 223 and LV 426 are not in the same star system, they don't orbit the same planet. LV 426 is located "just short of Zeta 2 Reticuli" (according to Lambert in "Alien"). LV 223, the destination of the "Prometheus" mission, must be located somewhere else.

If LV 223 and LV 426 were close to one another, if they were moons orbiting the same planet then it would be strange that LV 426 is chosen for colonization in the middle of the 22nd century while LV 223 remains uncolonized. LV 426 has no atmosphere, hence the need for an atmosphere processing station ("Aliens"). LV 223 has an atmosphere and even primitive organic life ("Prometheus"). It is therefore more suitable for colonization. Furthermore, it would be stranger still that LV 426 is colonized while neighboring moons remain unexplored. We can safely assume that all planets, planetoids and moons of a given star system are carefully explored (with technical means or even by human expeditions) before one of them is chosen for colonization. If LV 223 were located in the vicinity of LV 426, it would be explored at the same time as LV 426, and the abandoned installation of the engineers and maybe even the remains of the "Prometheus" would most probably be discovered. But at the time of "Aliens" (2179) mankind has no knowledge of engineers and xenomorphs. Ripley's report about both is met with incredulity during the hearing in "Aliens". When she mentions a "derelict spacecraft" nobody is astonished and bothers to ask questions. The members of the commission seem to think that Ripley is talking nonsense. This means that LV 223 and LV 426 are not close to one another and that after the disappearance of the "Nostromo" mankind has had no further encounters with engineers (living or dead) and xenomorphs, at least no encounters that became common knowledge. The colonists on LV 426 didn't even discover the engineer spacecraft themselves although at the time of "Aliens" they had been living on the moon for over 20 years.

Andrews, LV426 was picked for colonization because the Company knew the derelict ship with the parasite eggs were there. 

@ Andrew1975,

The information in the OP is sourced from Xenopedia. Most fans and especially general audiences believe the two moons, LV-426 and LV-223 to be orbiting Calpamos due to their distance from earth both being 39 light years away, and both containing evidence of the Engineers/Xenomorphs. Prometheus didn't prove or disprove this belief. Being a work of fiction, the writers didn't bother to check whether Zeta II Reticuli had a Gas giant with three orbiting moons.

As for your comments regards the colonization of LV-426 - Colonists not discovering the derelict is never addressed, so make up your own mind. Why LV-426 and not LV-223 - reason #1, The company wanted specimens of the Xenomorphs; the colonists were never meant to survive. The exec's on the board either didn't know about SO-937, or were pretending to not know. Reason #2 LV-223 hadn't been imagined yet.

Like Mark Hamill said, "its just a movie".

Andrew, LV-426 does have an atmosphere, just not a breathable one. Look at the clouds in the picture you posted.

@ Critter5

Please forgive me for being so outspoken but your comment doesn't make sense. At the time of "Aliens" (2179) the colonists have been living on LV 426 for more than 20 years. This is mentioned during Ripley's hearing at the beginning of "Aliens". The colonists didn't discover the derelict spacecraft by themselves. They found it only after Burke sent them an order to check some coordinates. You seem to think that the Company colonized LV 426 hoping that the colonists would be infected by the parasites. If such a plan existed, why didn't the Company do anything to bring about an infection immediately or soon after colonization? Besides, the colony is hugely expensive, a multi-billion dollar investment. Do you really think that Weyland Yutani would spend so much money and then wait for years and even decades, hoping that the colonists will someday somehow stumble upon the derelict spacecraft?

@ Gavin

Since Zeta II Reticuli is a real star system, not a fictitious one, the authors of "Prometheus" should have bothered to check whether the system has planets or not. 

As to your remark "The company wanted specimens of the Xenomorphs; the colonists were never meant to survive" I refer to the reply I have given above to the comment of Critter5. The assumption that Weyland Yutani established the colony on LV 426 with a sinister purpose is pure speculation.

All my thoughts and observations are strictly based on information provided in the movies. I disregard all information that is provided elsewhere. 

Andrews, I believe it was clearly inferred that the colonization of Lv-426 was so provide hosts to the Aliens which was the company's biggest interest. That's why Burke gave them the coordinates. 20 years was needed to bring in enough hosts. Infestructure was needed so that the hosts had a place to live and a reason to move their and the installation costs are likely nothing for the company. 

Gavin, agreed. 

@Andrew1975,

Zeta II Reticuli was probably chosen because of its popularity among UFO fanatics. It being a real system only adds to the movies effect. Just because A movie has connections to something in reality, doesn't necessarilly mean they are duty bound to relate as such accurately. Texas Chainsaw Massacre claims to be "based on a true story", when in reality it is inspired by the evidence of cannibalism found at US serial killer Ed Gein's home. The Fourth Kind claims the same, even stating that Mila Jovovich is portraying a real psychologist, yet two seconds on Google reveals the "psychologist" is just another actress and the movie is based on testimony from alleged alien abductees. 

As I mentioned in my reply, no reason was given why the colonists did not find the derelict or why the company did not make them. so lets us in-movie evidence to come up with an answer - in Alien it is said that LV-426 is tiny with a rotation of two hours. As the Nostromo land's it does so on the dark side of the moon. When the sun comes up the storm abates, suggesting that the storm covers the dark side of the moon, but because the moon rotates this storm traverse the moon every night. Kinda the opposite to what happens on Crematoria in the Chronicles of Riddick. Until such storms are controlled by the atmosphere processor it is likely that they seriously impaired any movement on LV-426's surface.

Hadley's Hope was a billion dollar venture. But in 2179 what is 1 billion relatively. In Victorian England £100 was considered a small fortune, during WWII it was considered a sizeable amount of monies, today it is virtually small change.

This little old Gem is always a good Topic, the connection between those Worlds and the Xenomorph, a interesting one with clues in Prometheus, but alas with the Change of Direction in AC, things may have to be looked differently... a shame because RS originally had worked out the Space Jockey Story he just felt it did not need Spoon Feeding.

@Andrew1975

You raise some good points, but if we consider the Marketing for Prometheus then its hinted the LV-426 and LV-223 are located in the vicinity of Zeta 2 System, its a Binary one so one World/Moon could Orbit one Star while the other Orbits its Twin.   A Problem does arise from not being 100% Scientific Fact and with some flaws... so far indeed we have not detected any Gas Giants in that System but this is Science Fiction.

There are flaws though, Holoways Star Map zooms into a Area of Space where Zeta 2 in respects to the Orion's Belt would not be located.  But then a 2 hour Rotation of LV-426 would not be able to support any Colonization Period.   These are all Flaws, that should be considered a Oversight.

You do raise a extremely Valid Point regarding LV-223, this place is more suitable than LV-426 for any Colonization attempts, so it can lead us to wonder why bother with LV-426, which we could maybe think what if they are different systems, but even so in terms of Space Travel in the Alien Universe even if LV-426 and LV-223 DO-NOT orbit the same Planet, they would still be located fairly close as far as scouting out a ideal world to set up a Colony.

The information Prometheus expanded with the system, would have us asking this Question, as to why in the year 2137 set up a Colony on LV-426 when LV-223 is more viable....  well we have to HOPE maybe this In-continuity gets covered because surely there would be a explanation to why LV-223 is not considered a option certainly by the year 2137, likewise LV-223 would have to be explained away as far as why in Alien 3 and Alien R do the companies Pursue Ripley for the Xenomorph, when LV-223 has many more riches.

Regarding LV-426 and the Derelict, it leads me indeed to think most of the company including Burke had no idea of the Derelict until after Ripley mentioned the events of the Nostromos Mission.  We cant rule out the company having knowledge, because the Prequels open this up... and so between David and his Experiments and what remains on LV-223, Planet 4 and Origae-6 at the time of Alien 2122 to the year of Hadleys Hope in 2137, surely we have to ask WHY is the Derelict the only thing to explore regarding Special Order 937 and then would the company wait 20 years to then Sacrifice the Colonist?

Sounds very sinister..... but not if we get the reveal that Mankind has become Sheep to AI, and like in the Matrix the Machines are running the Show, and Mankind are oblivious to their sinister motives

Gavin, exactly! 

Now i dont know how to tackle the OT, because well its a interesting and ambiguous one, well certainly was prior to Alien Covenant and GAVIN you raise some good points...  first regarding the Moons, if we assume LV-223 and LV-426 do indeed Orbit the same Planet, then the 3rd moon i think logically would be LV-121 or LV-629 but thats not a Guarantee. 

Its interesting to maybe imply this other Moon in the scheme of things.... we simply dont know what the connection is with the Engineers and Black Goo and Mural, i think Alien Engineers gives more clues, and when we see the Mural, and Frescos it could be possible those Engineers encountered a Parasitic Organism that they experimented on LV-223 with, which means we could speculate if this is the case, maybe they discovered this Parasite on the other Moon, then set up a Outpost on a near by Moon to experiment on this Parasite.   I think one flaw with this is the Star Maps, because they dated back 35'000 years or so ago, and so do we assume they had been experimenting with the Parasite and Creating the Deacon and Black Goo that long ago, yet still came to Earth to interact with us?

Unless it was all part of a Plan in the Scheme of Things, and so over 30'000 years prior to the Outbreak those Engineers had planed to create/use the Bio-Weapon on us, just for some reason they had to wait thousands of years?  I think this is flawed, but as its ambiguous we just cant rule anything out.

Some good points with Dr Shaw, and i feel Prometheus was showing us via the Deacon via the Trilobite, that a set of events could lead to a Face Hugger Type Organism, that leads to a Xenomorph Type. The clues was there for us, so that they never had to Spoon Feed the Xenomorph Origins...  it was done in a way that could lead to similar events in the past lead to the Xenomorph (or similar) or indeed another infection of the Parasitic Black Goo, or indeed the Hammerpedes... all of these could be the answer to the Xenomorph...   it was ambiguous, but this all changed with Alien Covenant.

I had explored many a theory regarding the Mural etc, to me i wondered if those Engineers could not Procreate or had lost this ability or had it taken from them, then coming into contact with a Parasite that then would allow them to GIVE BIRTH to Life, could be seen in high regard for these beings and maybe why they would make a Mural to it, and further  experiment with it... I think from the clues in Prometheus they encountered or was punished with the beast in the Fresco and began to experiment on this to create the Deacon, and then they Sacrificed it like the Sacrificial Engineer and the broken down DNA Stored in those Urns... These Engineers saw the Deacon as more Perfect than themselves and saw its DNA as being the better DNA to Evolve Worlds than their own DNA.. this is how i interpreted it all... which Jon Spaights Alien Engineers gives us the clues to exactly this.

I had pondered the importance of Females, made a Topic a long time ago on this, because the Engineer seemed very intrigued with Dr Shaw... (in the Full Scenes), and if these are Fallen Angels, we have many stories about the Sons of GOD (Angels) and Daughters of Man (Females) and the Children Born to them (Giants) and so i wondered could Females be playing a Large Role?

Did these beings Evolve themselves past Procreation, but while they Engineered themselves to Live Longer, they are not IMMORTAL, and so maybe the Sacrificial Route was a way to obtain Females to Breed with? But AC had latter showed us these Engineers had Females, well those Planet 4 ones did, and so i pondered, was they the result and reason for our seeding? Are they Hybrids...  This was prior to seeing Alien Covenant.

Indeed months after AC, we see TWO Concepts by both Wayne Haagg and Steve Messing, of the Temple/Cathedral Dome

Was there a reason that by Coincidence TWO separate Concept Artist have Females on the Doors, and the entrance we see Humanoids?  One piece who look more Greek/Roman the other Sumerian?  These dont look Engineers at all..... and while the Cathedral does not look like this in the Movie, we have to wonder at some point WHY Haagg and Messing designed the concepts this way?

So yes i think we can speculate Females are required to play a role in the Creation of Xenomorph Type Organisms, Davids experiments had been carried out on Female Engineers, but he found that Dr Shaw provided to be more suitable for the progress of his Creations.

If the Source i had in Feb 2015 was correct, then indeed prior to AC the plans was still similar, as they claimed HUMANS played a Bigger role in the Creation of the Xenomorph than the Engineers, and also that Dr Shaw plays a Small but IMPORTANT Role and is incapacitated for the most part.  And that David creates one of the TWO monsters the movie would feature, by Create he would Re-Create it, and all you needed was the Tools and Knowledge and he had both.  The source also said in context to Paradise Lost, without SIN (i assume Satans Daughter) there would be NO Xenomorph, now Sin is mostly incapacitated as she is constantly in labor and birthing the Hounds of Hell that Guard the Gates to Hell.  They also described a Female being connected to a Bio-Mechanical Device.   The Source was loose and vague so they did not directly Spoon Feed, but looking at it all and indeed those Concepts leaked from 2014 and the earlier ones by Matt Hatton they add up to what the Source said and Dr Shaws Fate is still similar to what was planned back in 2014

This does not mean we cant discredit any theories in this Topic, but indeed i think FEMALES play a Pivotal Role in the Xenomorph.

I think the Benevolent Space Jockey remark is interesting as indeed RS did say this, but since Prometheus he refers to the Engineers as Fallen Angels, and not being Benevolent, even saying in the lead up to working on P2 that they will find beings, but these beings are far from Benevolent.

Maybe the Space Jockey is thus a Angel and not Fallen? But then maybe his action is Benevolent to his own species, or maybe could be benevolent to all.

RS did explain the Space Jockey Event in quite some Detail.

*The Derelict and Juggernaught and Engineers and Space Jockey are brothers.

*Those Ships are Bio-Weapon Carriers/Transporters/Bombers

*The Derelict was off to a undisclosed destination, but it did not get far.

*The Derelict did not crash, it had intended to land on LV-426 to Quarantine its Cargo

*The Pilot got infected by his Cargo, something had Evolved in the Cargo Hold.

*The Event had occurred within a few hundred years of the Outbreak on LV-223

Its such a shame things have been changed now, as these showed us that the Derelict Event happened either a few hundred years prior to the LV-223 Outbreak thus those Experiments likely had taken place on the Cargo of the Derelict.  Or the event happened hundreds of years after the Outbreak which would mean the Eggs are a result of something Evolving from the Outbreak.

Even though AC had set up David creates the Xenomorph, we still cant rule out him only Evolving/Re-Creating it, this can still be changed as it seems to be the BIGGEST Criticism of Alien Covenant

And what about the fourth moon?

/Prometheus concept art by Steve Messing/

LV-223, LV-426... AND TWO MORE MOONS:

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43275

Movie image from Alien, the three (four?) relatively big planetoid moons are outside the ring, no doubt:

Prometheus, arrival scene, two 'big' moons in the distance, LV-223 and LV-426?, probably yes, we don't know, there is no ring, there is no the planet itself, their positions are unknown, the ring and the gas planet (Calpamos) are out of sight:

BUT!

We have this Prometheus movie image where the ship can be seen very close to the gas giant, it flies 'under' the ring, there's a small moon in the distance on the left (no info about it), AND THERE'S A SMALL MOON 'OVER' THE RING WHICH IS VERY CLOSE TO THE PLANET (inside the ring on the right). I think it can't be one of the relatively big moons because it must have looked much bigger so close to the gas giant:

I think it can be claimed that there is a mysterious small moon inside the planet ring.

Look at this image from Prometheus, it shows the planet and its moons, so LV-223 (and LV-426?) is outside the ring, no doubt:

@ Critters5

I suggest you rewatch "Aliens", especially the hearing at the beginning of the movie. Burke did indeed communicate the coordinates of the derelict spacecraft to the colonists. BUT: He didn't possess these coordinates prior to Ripley's return. He obtained them from the flight recorder of Ripley's rescue shuttle. The chairman of the commission mentions that the flight recorder was analyzed. The data confirmed some elements of Ripley's report - that the "Nostromo" set down on LV 426.

I'm afraid you are seriously mistaken if you think "that the colonization of LV 426 was to provide hosts to the Aliens which was the company's biggest interest". LV 426 was clearly not colonized in order to provide hosts for the xenomorph. There is nothing in "Aliens" to support such a view. Two things have always puzzled me: In "Aliens" no explanation is given as to why such a barren, desolate and inhospitable moon like LV 426 was actually colonized. And it is never explained why the colonists didn't discover the derelict spacecraft by themselves (in over 20 years!). Surely the moon was surveyed and mapped prior to or after colonization. Such a huge metallic object like the juggernaut should not have gone undetected.  

@ Ati

Strangely you answer your own query, the concept art by Messing is exactly that, whereas the scene you then show from ALien, shows Calpamos and three moons. Yes, Prometheus scenes and hologram only shows two moons, but that's not to say the other moon isn't there. It may be closer to the rings as you suggest, or even on the other side of the planet and maybe at that point in time undetected by Weyland Corp.

@ Andrew1975,

Did the USCSS Prometheus map LV-223 before entering the atmosphere, Did the Nostromo before it set down on LV-426. While common sense would suggest such a practice would be mandatory, this is the world of the movies, in which dumb arse characters make dumb arse decisions to further the plot of the movie.

In Aliens, it is shown that the colonists had studied the Facehuggers and removed them from hosts. This would likely have happened shortly after the Jordens encounter at the derelict, and as such, it is likely that they messaged Gateway Station, Burke and/or Weyland-Yutani to tell them of this occurrence, yet Burke and the marines mentioned nothing. The Colony was also fitted with CCTV, thus it is also likely that the footage of the Xenomorphs subjugating the colony would have been transmitted back to W-Y, but again no mention of this from Burke or Gorman.

Because no reason was given for why the colonists didn't discover the derelict I infer that the violent storms preventing them from doing so, and that these storms were artificially generated (much like the silica storm in Prometheus) by Engineer tech. This is not THE answer, but its the best one I've got.

Andrew1975

The Aliens thing... well indeed judging only by the movies this situation with LV426 is incoherent. In Alien, the Company knew about the Xenomorph, yet it only establishes a colony after decades from the events from the first movie if they wanted to test the weapon on humans? Even if there was no surveying done, where did the distress signal (intercepted in the original) disappear? It might be only a plot convenience and the fact the scenarios were written by different people.

BigDave

Is that supposed to be Shaw in the first picture (woman silhouette, Prometheus suit)? Why is the temple dilapidated, were the engineers supposed to be dead for many years at one point? Who were supposed the bearded guys be? And what are they holding? Sacrificial black goo?

@ Gavin

When Burke and Gorman visit Ripley they do so because communication with LV 426 has broken down. No messages, no transmissions. The fighting between colonists and xenomorphs must have damaged the communication system fairly quickly, before a message or a distress signal could be sent.

@ red0guy

Some years ago I read somewhere that the script for "Alien" contained a scene that was not filmed: After entering the derelict spacecraft, Dallas, Kane and Lambert find the device emitting the signal which the "Nostromo" received. They turn it of, thereby ending the transmission. It's a pity this scene was not filmed.

By the way: How long does it take for the "Sulaco" to reach LV 426? In "Alien" Lambert calculates that the "Nostromo" will cover the distance between LV 426 and earth in ten months. The "Sulaco" must travel much, much faster, otherwise a rescue mission wouldn't make sense, would it?