Evolution theory.

I think that it maybe impossible for the David8 to be a host of any kind because he is an artificially created being. He is made up of wires, and while he may have organic tissue, i don't think that anything would be able to grow inside him, because he wouldn't be able to provide it with nutrients. But I think that there is a reason that these things are able to attach themselves to specific hosts. Perhaps they have an instinct that enables them to know that a specific creature is habitable. But I'm certainly no scientist, and evolution has produced some miraculous creatures that are capable of things that we once thought were impossible. Regarding the bio-mechanical nature of later Xenos, what do you mean?

that fake script had something about David becoming a real person after touching the 'bioformer' if you ask me I like the idea very creepy...imagine he wakes up with a human hand and you can see a cool effect where muscle and flesh blend with cyborg fibre optics

@Corey- In truth we don't know exactly WHAT David is made of. It's all mere speculation here of course. We could speculate that this/these earlier version(s) were not true androids but more accurately cyborg. This has been mentioned of at least one other thread (the awesome 'Is Vickers a synthetic?' thread). And that could explain a few things: what appears to be some emotionality of David (and Vickers), and the aforementioned bio-mechanical (yes) nature of the later Xenos, IF a cyborg did act as a host. Then full on androids could've become preferable to cyborgs. Just speculation but no matter how you look at it I haven't been this excited about an upcoming movie in a very long time!

Corey is right. If David is a full synthetic there is no way a xeno could utilize his machinery to grow or develop an egg. David has no DNA. DNA is vital for the growth of any organism. It supplies not only the code but the actual process to develop cellular organelles, cells, chemistry, proteins, tissue, organs, and so forth [this is called [i]The Central Dogma of Molecular Biology[/i]]. What's assumed is the xeno has a "viral" type of DNA that incorporates into and takes over the host DNA and causes it to develop whatever the xeno DNA has coded. This explains why the xeno takes characteristics of the host, and why this process happens so quick. It uses the host own chemistry against itself for the propagation of the xeno. Basically this is what viruses do and ironically the reason why there are no cures for viruses. Ingenious.

Bingo! Think you're on to something. A creature that appears organic and synthetic, even on the outside. Some great ideas here on this site but also think Mr. Scott is two steps ahead of us. Guess when we see the film, we'll all be a bit surprised. Tommie

So have they been rounding up androids prior to Prometheus, seeing how there is a sculpture of a Xeno implying they already exist? I don't think Xenos are spawned from androids, mutation, or anything else that has been speculated in these forums. We shall see.

Can someone please show me where the "bio-mechanical" term means an actual hybrid of biological and mechanical in the Alien universe? My understanding is the term was coined because of the LOOK of Giger's work, but no true reference for Alien. I have found nothing to actually say it was the real thing. Aliens, and zenos don't actually have mechanical parts. They are only bio-mechanical in appearance. Much as the rest of Giger's work. The SJ suit and chair obviously raise questions, but not the Alien. If I am wrong, please someone show me the light. This whole concept is very confusing. Quite frankly, I hope David is an android in the beginning, and still one at whatever end he meets. All of the speculation that he somehow evolves into the Alien race is a little too much like Robin Williams in Bicentennial Man. Please NO NO NO. Not for this universe!

The xeno is definately created through Prometheus, Ridley has stated the "pregenitor to the xenormorth" will be in the film and we have also had another interview from Idris Elba states "it's how the mum and dad met". My bets are on the 'progenitor' being the creature that Shaw gives birth to. My theory is that the Engineer lives in harmony with this white worm we keep seeing; maybe it gives the Engineer greater strength and longer life. I'm guesing the Engineers are 'A-sexual - only one gender' so they procreate through other means, maybe something to do witht he Ampules that infect Holloway. The sexual intercourse between infected Holloway and Shaw create the 'progenitor to the xenomorth' this creature stronger and more dangerous attacks the jockey birthing whatever lays or creates the eggs........... this is all my assumptions!!

lol... Pretty Shocking Assumption ;) If so that infected Hybrid Holloway Rapes Shaw that brings about Squidy, well how they gonna make that a PG 13 ;) We dont know for sure but i think Ridley will go for the Shock Factor again, he even hinted that thare are a number of wow shock factor scenes in this movie that equal the Chest Burster Scene from Alien. I suspect a vary Dark Uneasy Side to this Movie.

Like many of you before me, all assumptions here, but: 1) A Scene of David crying from the original teaser trailer, (do androids come with tear ducts or is this an anomaly he experiences with his investigation of the contents from the ample room?) 2) I remember an Aliens comic series from the 90's in which Newt gets with a colonial marine who turns out to be an android, only he himself doesn't even know it. Maybe Holloway fits this scenario? Just a thought. 3) Alien from Shaw - fleshy and clearly organic. Potential alien from SJ - smooth, bio-mechanical in origin and large. 4) Ridley hints that the crew encounters an uncivilized society already in play there and a leak that one of the actors is eaten fairly early in the film. So what creatures are already lurking besides the aforementioned Shaw's son? Interesting? Or retreaded stuff you've already read? Just contributing.

Why rape dude; he's looking in the mirror and is infected, I can't see a rape scene being in this film....

I would like to add that if there's one underlying expression within Alien, Aliens, and Prometheus films is the biomechanic structures of the "aliens". I'm speculating the reason why androids are important is because of the limitations of pure organic tissues. Like I've said before, Ash in Alien tells you directly that the primary elemental material of the xeno is Silicon. All organisms on Earth are organic (Carbon based). The reason why living organisms are carbon based is because carbon can vary it's chemistry more than any other LIGHT element (except Silicon and Silicon belongs to the same chemical group as carbon... ie carbon and silicon share a lot of the same chemistry). We already know that silicon is necessary for building computers, microprocessors, and so forth. One would speculate that as any intelligent species attains greater technology, it hits the limitations of carbon based tissue. Look at our human brains. Because our tissue is carbon based we will never be able to think as quickly as computers because our tissue can't conduct electrical signals that rapidly. Thus, as any intelligent species advances in the universe, evolutionary, it would require its tissue to eventually incorporate silicon so it could increase it's mental capacity to advance technologically. In other words, as a species advances it would eventually become a hybrid machine/living organism=biomechanic. I believe this is the significance of David(androids). He's the first step of human's evolutionary process that is entering a new paradigm of evolution.

I would like to add that if there's one underlying expression within Alien, Aliens, and Prometheus films is the biomechanic structures of the "aliens". I'm speculating the reason why androids are important is because of the limitations of pure organic tissues. Like I've said before, Ash in Alien tells you directly that the primary elemental material of the xeno is Silicon. All organisms on Earth are organic (Carbon based). The reason why living organisms are carbon based is because carbon can vary it's chemistry more than any other LIGHT element (except Silicon and Silicon belongs to the same chemical group as carbon... ie carbon and silicon share a lot of the same chemistry). We already know that silicon is necessary for building computers, microprocessors, and so forth. One would speculate that as any intelligent species attains greater technology, it hits the limitations of carbon based tissue. Look at our human brains. Because our tissue is carbon based we will never be able to think as quickly as computers because our tissue can't conduct electrical signals that rapidly. Thus, as any intelligent species advances in the universe, evolutionary, it would require its tissue to eventually incorporate silicon so it could increase it's mental capacity to advance technologically. In other words, as a species advances it would eventually become a hybrid machine/living organism=biomechanic. I believe this is the significance of David(androids). He's the first step of human's evolutionary process that is entering a new paradigm of evolution.

I disagree with David not having DNA. The nanotechnology could be so sophisticated that it can be mistaken for DNA. The technology could be small that it could combine with biological DNA. Just a thought.

Nanotechnology is just the ability to build an architecture at 1X10^-9 meters (0.000000009 meters) Nothing more. Nanotechnology is fabricating materials close to the molecular level (but not quite). No matter how complex nanotechnology is-it's easily distinguishable from DNA(which is far more complex than nanotechnology). We can already look at realms beyond nanotechnology with x-ray crystallography and x-ray physics. Matter of fact, DNA exists at the realm of "Angstroms" which is one power of 10 smaller than nanotechnology. I know this because I'm a chemical physicist and theoretical chemist. DNA isn't even in the same category and/or doesn't have considerations entailing replication processes. However, playing Devil's advocate, it still wouldn't make sense to have "made up" DNA. Why? The complexity would be too sophisticated. It would mean you would need to literally create billions of complex molecules that represent codes to millions of chemical substances, millions of proteins, tissues, and so forth, and non of this code could self eliminate itself. It took nature over a billion years just to construct a DNA code that resembles anything that our cells use for energy (glycolysis). If such a DNA technology existed, one could design organisms of unimaginable ability on a whim. Building an android is child's play compared to constructing self replicating, generating DNA organism. If you could it would mean your literally a god. A technology attainable by the Space Jockey but certainly not by humans. Nanotechnology is a material science. Not a science about building entire organisms that are self sufficient from the ground up. No such science exist because it's so far beyond our reach.

Nanotechnology is just the ability to build an architecture at 1X10^-9 meters (0.000000009 meters) Nothing more. Nanotechnology is fabricating materials close to the molecular level (but not quite). No matter how complex nanotechnology is-it's easily distinguishable from DNA(which is far more complex than nanotechnology). We can already look at realms beyond nanotechnology with x-ray crystallography and x-ray physics. Matter of fact, DNA exists at the realm of "Angstroms" which is one power of 10 smaller than nanotechnology. I know this because I'm a chemical physicist and theoretical chemist. DNA isn't even in the same category and/or doesn't have considerations entailing replication processes. However, playing Devil's advocate, it still wouldn't make sense to have "made up" DNA. Why? The complexity would be too sophisticated. It would mean you would need to literally create billions of complex molecules that represent codes to millions of chemical substances, millions of proteins, tissues, and so forth, and non of this code could self eliminate itself. It took nature over a billion years just to construct a DNA code that resembles anything that our cells use for energy (glycolysis). If such a DNA technology existed, one could design organisms of unimaginable ability-on a whim. Building an android is child's play compared to constructing self replicating, generating DNA organism. If you could, it would mean you're literally a god. A technology attainable by the Space Jockey, but certainly not by humans. Nanotechnology is a material science. Not a science about building entire organisms that are self sufficient from the ground up. No such science exist because it's so far beyond our reach.

Good hypothesis. Also, the android's ultimate revenge on humans (think myth of prometheus style) would be the Xeno.... His existence would not be tied no more to humans and this new "species" (in its own right) would be the scourge of humankind....

@czelaya - I was going to ask you if you were a chemical physicist and a theoretical chemist, but I figured you just tell me "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night."

I hate to rain on your parade, but this happened 2 years ago. Scientists create artificial DNA. http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2010/05/100521_synthetic_life_nh_sl.shtml

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...where did those inner metallic jaws in the last Xenomorph come from?....Bueller...anyone...anyone... and don't say HR Giger...

Serratedproboscis, Read the article. It's misleading. All they did was use cellular organelles (probably some type of RNA where a vector was used) and tricked a cell to produce more DNA or tRNA or RNA. Nothing revolutionary. There calling it artificial because they tricked a cellular organism to produce DNA. This is just another form of biotechnology. See biotechnology. Experimentation is done like this to lower degrees in undergraduate molecular biology education. So no new novel form of DNA was synthesized from scratch that has never been created. If such a feat could be done... those individuals would receive Nobel prizes for the next century.

My bad. Wrong link. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/scientists-create-first-self-replicating-synthetic-life/ My point is this. They solved M-theory? I think they can probably create synthetic life, where chemicals behave and react in predetermined ways to produce tissues, etc. After all, that's what our body does anyway. We're just chemicals--albeit highly specific and incredibly complex chemical chains that have learned to work together to create a cell.

I think is was Bella that mention we will see the progenitor of the Alien in Prometheus... pro·gen·i·tor/prəˈjenətər/ Noun: 1. A person or thing from which a person, animal, or plant is descended or originates; an ancestor or parent. 2. A person who originates an artistic, political, or intellectual movement. IMO the progenitor is the creator, thus the Space Jockey's.

Serratedproboscis, It's the same as the other. This time, if I read right, they just synthesized the nucleotides. That's nothing new as well. Synthetic organic chemist have been doing this for a long time. Furthermore the sequence they inserted was already known, respectfully. In the end, there utilizing another cells machinery for the work. It's biotechnology all over again. However, I completely understand the point your making. To an extent we're taking things just a little too far now. It's just a movie. But here's a point. Suppose they solve M-Theory or Loop Quantum Gravity (two schools of thought that are trying to unify the four forces of the universe). It would be a marvel of scientific achievement, but if there's one thing we know about such grand discoveries is they take a long time to fully comprehend. Discovering an equation for M-Theory gives an equation of complete understanding of everything (the beginning of the universe; what's inside a black hole; and mechanisms of worm holes if the theory allows). However you know the physics, it may take centuries before you could do anything with the theory... the technology. The greatest achievement by man kind so far have been [b]quantum mechanics[/b](non relativistic quantum mechanics, quantum field theory, quantum electrodynamics, weak theory, and quantum chronodynamics) and [b]general relativity[/b]. Quantum mechanics is the revolution that has advanced and is responsible for the exponential growth of technology over the last several decades. It's responsible for computers, new materials, LED's, nuclear technology, and countless others. However, do we really know how to harness the true potential of quantum mechanics? No. We know the equations of quantum mechanics but they're so complex-we only know how to harness its power in the most simplest cases. But we're learning quickly, but it's a very difficult endeavor. The point is we haven't scratched the surface of quantum mechanics and this theory is so deep nobody knows how deep and the potential of the theory goes. We don't even know what quantum mechanics really means. It's such an esoteric theory, we don't comprehend it intuitively. We cracked the code of quantum mechanics over 70 years ago and we've made large leaps in technology but we're far from utilizing this science in application. Our mathematics and comprehension isn't powerful enough. The same goes for many of the biosciences. If we could create new novel complex DNA it would mean we could eradicate all diseases, stop the aging process, create complex organisms, create our own evolution, create perfect species, and discover new potentials that we can't even comprehend.

Serratedproboscis, It's the same as the other. This time, if I read right, they just synthesized the nucleotides. That's nothing new as well. Synthetic organic chemist have been doing this for a long time. Furthermore the sequence they inserted was already known, respectfully. In the end, there utilizing another cells machinery for the work. It's biotechnology all over again. However, I completely understand the point your making. To an extent we're taking things just a little too far now. It's just a movie. But here's a point. Suppose they solve M-Theory or Loop Quantum Gravity (two schools of thought that are trying to unify the four forces of the universe). It would be a marvel of scientific achievement, but if there's one thing we know about such grand discoveries is they take a long time to fully comprehend. Discovering an equation for M-Theory gives an equation of complete understanding of everything (the beginning of the universe; what's inside a black hole; and mechanisms of worm holes if the theory allows). However you know the physics, it may take centuries before you could do anything with the theory... the technology. The greatest achievement by man kind so far have been [b]quantum mechanics[/b](non relativistic quantum mechanics, quantum field theory, quantum electrodynamics, weak theory, and quantum chronodynamics) and [b]general relativity[/b]. Quantum mechanics is the revolution that has advanced and is responsible for the exponential growth of technology over the last several decades. It's responsible for computers, new materials, LED's, nuclear technology, and countless others. However, do we really know how to harness the true potential of quantum mechanics? No. We know the equations of quantum mechanics but they're so complex-we only know how to harness its power in the most simplest cases. But we're learning quickly, but it's a very difficult endeavor. The point is we haven't scratched the surface of quantum mechanics and this theory is so deep nobody knows how deep and the potential of the theory goes. We don't even know what quantum mechanics really means. It's such an esoteric theory, we don't comprehend it intuitively. We cracked the code of quantum mechanics over 70 years ago and we've made large leaps in technology but we're far from utilizing this science in application. Our mathematics and comprehension isn't powerful enough. The same goes for many of the biosciences. If we could create new novel complex DNA it would mean we could eradicate all diseases, stop the aging process, create complex organisms, create our own evolution, create perfect species, and discover new potentials that we can't even comprehend.

I still think that it is impossible for David to be impregnated by anything, and give birth to a bio-mechanical being. WE have to remember that the original Alien took place about 50 years after the Prometheus mission. And when Ash is killed, we see what he is made of. I'm going to assume, that in fifty years Weyland's androids have become more advanced, however, from seeing what Ash is made of, we must assume that David is made of the same stuff. He doesn't have organs, or blood. Even if he somehow became infected, I don't think anything would be able to live in side of him, and would most likely be rejected. Even if these advanced beings somehow created a molecular substance that was able to create/or manipulate life, it would still be impossible to change the structure of David's mechanical anatomy. It would be silly if somehow his wires were turned into organs.

I still think it is impossible for David to interact with this molecular substance. We have to remember that the prometheus mission occurred 50 years before the nostromo mission. And when Ash is killed, we see what he is made of. I'm going to assume that Weyland's androids had many improvements at this point, however we see that Ash's body is make of wires and bleeds a milky substance. I'm going to assume that David is most likely made of the same materials. Even if this organic substance that the crew finds is able to create/manipulate life, anything that possibly infects David would most likely be rejected. Also, if this organic substance was so far advanced to be able to transform matter, it would be silly and fantastical that it would be able to turn wires into organs.

I would expect synthetic to mean cyborg to some degree. An artifical skeleton with flesh cultivated over it. The flesh would be based on donor dna, and would account for them all looking the same. (Bishop). The bio-mechanical nature I initially refered to is the metal teeth and general nature of the beast.

Maybe the goo doesn't need DNA to become active. Given it's use in Terraforming planets and creating new life, it might not need DNA to start it's cycle.

How do we know that the goo is terraforming planets?

I dont think the goo has anything to do with "terraforming" planets. I think the Engineers simply select worlds that already have the basic building blocks in place and seed life into these worlds using variations of their DNA forms that are suited to whatever particular planetoid/moon/whatever.

@ Corey; I heard it was used for that in an article. That the SJ would use it to "seed" new life onto barren planets, effectively terraforming them. I assumed it needed no extra DNA to begin the transformation. However, Canadaphil makes a good point, maybe the planets chosen have the beginnings of life such as bacteria or whatever. Which brings us to David8; who knows what the SJ technology is like? Maybe it can work with any matter, the fact David is synthetic is not a problem for the transformation cycle to begin and that David does in fact become a host, thus creating a new Xenomorph that is biomechanical in structure.

@Svanya: The goo may seed new life on the planet, but terraforming is a process of changing the atmosphere of a planet to make the air breathable and habitable for a human beings. I don't think the Engineers terraformed at all. I think that CanadaPhil was on the right track in saying that they selected planets with basic building blocks to seed life into these worlds. But the life that would exist in these worlds would be able to live in whatever atmosphere that world had. I think the engineers were able to modify the DNA to make whatever life form they created able to thrive in that world. I'm thinking that the Engineers came to earth once, saw how the atmosphere was, did a bunch of scientific experiments to see what would be able to live in such a world, and thus they created human beings. But I don't think they were interested in terraforming at all. I think these beings were so far advanced that they were able to create life that could be suitable to any condition. I think they did this on purpose. They would create organisms that were able live in different conditions, and they would watch and study them.