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Was Ash,in actual fact,a tragic figure like HAL in 2001:A Space Odyssey? 'A Trag

THE M O N O L I T H

MemberOvomorphMay 04, 20124427 Views33 Replies
If there was a mission sent out to LV-426 prior to the events as depicted in ALIEN then in that regard the company wold have prior knowledge to the possible findings they would re-encounter again upon its surface. So setting up events to have the Nostromo in nearby proximity and also being a space-tug 'The Company' could create a situation for itself that would be kept to a need-to-know basis, Ash would have been groomed for his part in the mission proir to when the voyage began. He could be given full knowledge of events that took place during the timeline of Prometheus and the latter-stages of 'The Companies' plan could therefore be put into action. Like HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey, Ash's 'Programming' could have been interuppted even corrupted along the way from it's original intended goal seeking algorithms to co-operate and serve his human counter-parts by 'Company' insiders somehow re-wiring him or ordering him to conceal certain aspects of the mission from the others aboard the Nostromo. He may have, in fact, been in conflict on the one-hand upholding his programming yet on the other following orders from his Human couter-parts. It's just that one pair of orders to co-operate and serve flew in the face of more insidious orders to conceal and deem expendable those very-same human counter-parts. Was Ash experiencing the exact same equivalent of an H-Mobious Loop as HAL did only in Ashes case, in androgynous form? Perhaps, in some way dare-I-say-it, but Ash could in fact be a sort of tragic hero... He, in essence, was a pawn, a mechanism caught-up in a 'morality tale' between honorable nature that created him possibly in the first place and less scrupulous individuals who's darker-side of human nature exploits opportunities, technology and the people that would use them for far more devious means, methods and Modes Opperandi... The struggle between the good against evil within our society... So, in light of this, as a result of his eventual actions, no-body would think twice about keeping total tabs upon a space-tug, while an official, high-profile mission is out tooling around the Galaxy, in the meantime, the Nostromo could be setting down upon LV-426 and nobody will be none-the-wiser. If it went wrong then it can just be blamed upon poor captaincy and bad error in judgement on Dallas' part... We have to assume that during these future times there is also other 'Companies' out tooling around the Galaxy with interests in securing the latest in technologies, mineral ores and diposits, bio-weaponry and the like so the driving force during these future space-faring days of Human civilization is also coming into contact and also into competiotion whether it be direct or indirect with other Alien life forms with their own hold upon certain Galaxtic territories. It's a situation that is not unlike the wild west of old America and the Great Frontier only this time it is the Great New Frontier of the Space Ways across the scattering of the wider Galaxy at large...
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dallas!dallas!
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You know I think I just have to start another thread on this interview. It is just too good.
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HAL 9000
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@dallas!dallas!: Brilliant, thanks so much for sharing this here! A very revealing and explanatory interview I haven't read before. It more or less confirms how I always felt about that part of the film. Great stuff! But if the 'Aliens' really decided to interfere, teach us a lesson if you want, how did the message from Dave's experience make it back into our society, into our consciousness? Did we need '2010: The Year We Made Contact' to explain or emphazise that? Also, do you think that HAL was in fact 'contacted' by the Aliens, and was somehow lead to believe that his actions were decent and necessary to make the Discovery's mission a 'success'? If you want to start a new thread on this I'd be more than happy to join in, if I may...
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Id Rather Be Eatin Something Else
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Yes indeed, HAL 9000. I find this particular thread very thought stimulating myself. I may start a thread too! I am interested in the idead that perhaps HAL was an infant version of sorts as the Monoliths are like the Great Grand parents to him. And it seems as thought they are prone to malfunctions and break downs as HAL apparantly is too. We, as humans are HAL's creators and there came eventually a crisis in the cross-roads between us as flesh and blood thinking beings and HAL 'himself'. So, it seems too, that an extrapolation can be reached with regards to the 'First-Born' who created the Monoliths and the Monolith/Monoliths themselves. Keep an eye out for a thread upon this but it has to bear some relevance to the Prometheus concepts raised. Any more thoughts? Hope so!
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Spartacus
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I think he most certainly was, but Only because of the way Ripley Mercifully Disconnects him.
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Id Rather Be Eatin Something Else
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As in the case of Ash with an alternate 'agaenda', I think that there is an apparent 'agenda' on Vikers part to 'her' being (no punn intended when I say 'being' - lol!) there and involved in the mission. I think she is androgynus 'being' of some sorts, I'm not sure in what fashion he truely serves, i guess we shall know very soon! I always thought she (Charlize Theron) would be good in another Ridley Scott franchises: Blade Runner sequel/prequel - Either/or would be fine for me! She would be, to me, like another 'type' of Pris character and she would look good too I feel! Yes...
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dallas!dallas!
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HAL 9000 To paraphrase your namesake, I enjoy working with this thread and look forward to many more contributions. Seriously, I just wanted to start a thread on the interview to combine it with Scott's 2001 on Steroids quote. I wonder just what that means and am curious to see what others think. Now, regarding your questions: 1. This is of course the great mystery. We see the Star-Child looking down on Earth with a look of what? Joy, peace, serenity? All three? Just what is its next move? Better minds than mine have taken to explaining. I think Clarke needed 2010 to explain how the message got back. But he also changed the message from humanity's next giant leap to the start of new life. On a related note, Kubrick's first idea when told about Clarke was just to adapt Childhood's End. So my guess is that the Star-Child may very well have engaged humans in some way like the aliens from that novel. Just minus the spaceships. I mean if something like the Star-Child suddenly appeared it would really seem more like God than alien life. On a less related note, I am again reminded of The Shining. King just thought Kubrick left way too much open to interpretation without definitive reasons why Jack turns murderous (possession? re-incarnation? pure cabin fever?) whereas Clarke said he always likes Kubrick's take on his material (to be fair to King, he never got to collaborate directly with Kubrick on the script). In an interview with King, he remembered Stanley calling him one night during filming and asking if he believed in God. King said yes, and Kubrick said, "I don't believe in God." And hung up. That was pretty much the extent of their collaboration. While Kubrick and Clarke agreed from the start that the director would have final say on the movie while the author could make the novel his vision. So after a lot of thinking (thanks to your question), I don't really have an answer, just some rough ideas. 2. I suppose it is possible. I just like my HAL as detached murderer. But that is just my HAL. Having the aliens contact HAL would make thing very, very interesting. And make them less completely benevolent. Four murders is worthy of transforming Dave. It makes them a lot more clinical. Great questions. And these are just my opinions.
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Spartacus
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come to think of it it really bothers me now that Ripley didn't just disconnect him without giving him the choice she did. She should have been way more angry after what he did to her?
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arrgy
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No. Ash was not a tragic figure out caught between company orders and some sense of humanity. As a matter of fact Ash's actions were even more deplorable if you think about it. Ash's programming had him conceal everything he and the company knew from the crew including the ship, what was on it, etc. He allowed the creature to come onto the ship and then concealed what was growing inside of Kane from the rest of the crew. There is a deleted scene were Ripley notices a stain on Kane's lung that Ash says he can not explain, but in truth he knows what it is. When the Xeno finally bursts, Ash is the one who tells the crew not to touch it and allows the creature to escape. Ash is the one who warns the creature about the airlock (also deleted) which allows Ash to drag this situation out so that the crew runs out of oxygen (also deleted) The novelization and deleted scenes make Ash's actions look even worse. Finally, Ash uses the time to study the creature knowing full well that it will probably not attack him since he is a machine. When he attacks Ripley and gives that little smirk, I believe he is actually enjoying the opportunity he has to kill her. No, Ash is incidious and nothing in his actions leads me to believe that he is a tragic figure at all.
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Svanya
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@colonelangus; As far as I understand it, Ash malfunctioned after Ripley pushed him up against the wall. His head is bleeding white blood (nice contrast to her bleeding nose) and he is making weird high pitched noises. I don't think he is any kind of a tragic figure at all, he was programmed to be a dick by some horrible humans tough. And YES arrgy is right, the novel is amazing, read it if you can it gives HUGE insight into his mind. @Dallas!Dallas! Funny what you said about computers becoming neurotic because Fassbender says David8 develops emotions in a similar way, when he is alone for the 2 years on the ship. Quote: (In the specific case of HAL, he had an acute emotional crisis because he could not accept evidence of his own fallibility. The idea of neurotic computers is not uncommon -- most advanced computer theorists believe that once you have a computer which is more intelligent than man and capable of learning by experience, it's inevitable that it will develop an equivalent range of emotional reactions -- fear, love, hate, envy, etc. Such a machine could eventually become as incomprehensible as a human being, and could, of course, have a nervous breakdown -- as HAL did in the film.")

Wat

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Spartacus
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what was tragic about him was the immense WASTE of time, space, and effort he was, and a g-d awful excuse for a Decent properly sub serviant and obedient android !!!
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geopap
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HAL actually represents something else, read [url=http://2001.a-false-flag-odyssey.com/]this[/url] and you will understand. "In 2001 Professor Heywood Floyd (defy Hollywood) stages up a false flag alien discovery on the moon....." The monolith is a more human than human invention!
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
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djrees56
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The dude sat in Parker's chair man...not cool :)
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get-it-out-of-me!
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I don't know. But advance each letter of HAL forward one and you get IBM. Spooky!

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